Trip Report-20 HE game at Bicycle Club
Bjgkaraoke
was a must-move. After about 2 hours, I moved into the main game. Both games
were good. The Bike recently started taking a collection out of the pots.
They take $3 per pot in a full game (8 or 9 players); $2 (6 or 7 players) and
$1 (five or less players) in all games with a flop. If no flop, they take $1.
I'm usually against playing in games that take collection out of the pots, but
the Bike's method is actually quite fair.
Other games spread in the top section were 20-40 Stud 8 or better and 40 Omaha.
All these games also had a very fair collection policy, but I don't know the
exact details.
Also, they have a cash promotion going now. If a player plays 2 hours from 1pm
to 8pm, the Bike gives them $25 cash. In addition, the food is comped. All in
all, a pretty good deal for So. Calif. players. I'll certainly make a return
trip.
Barbara Gallamore
KrisppyKreme
What you say about the Bike is true. I just wish they could spread some stud
games.
Krisppy Kreme
Rick Nebiolo
Thanks for the nice review and it was great to see you today. I'm
sitting here with my friend Greg Plueger (the new Bicycle Casino Plaza
host) and we both appreciate your input. Hopefully we will get
additional feedback from RGP. In the meantime, I'll make some
clarifications to your post below.
On 11 Oct 2002 02:59:57 GMT, bjgka...@aol.com (Bjgkaraoke) wrote:
>Today I went to the Bike to try the 20 HE game. They had two games going, one
>was a must-move. After about 2 hours, I moved into the main game. Both games
>were good. The Bike recently started taking a collection out of the pots.
>They take $3 per pot in a full game (8 or 9 players); $2 (6 or 7 players) and
>$1 (five or less players) in all games with a flop. If no flop, they take $1.
>I'm usually against playing in games that take collection out of the pots, but
>the Bike's method is actually quite fair.
>Other games spread in the top section were 20-40 Stud 8 or better and 40 Omaha.
> All these games also had a very fair collection policy, but I don't know the
>exact details.
The games above 20/40 are still collected with time, and I'm
reasonably sure our rates are better than the competition.
Our 20/40 Stud 8 or better features a 50 cent modified drop if fourth
street is not dealt (even when there is a $49 pot with an uncalled $20
"Action Bet"). This game has been very strong lately, with several
new customers trying it out (one of them is me, who is struggling to
learn to play the game - beat me while you can!).
>Also, they have a cash promotion going now. If a player plays 2 hours from 1pm
>to 8pm, the Bike gives them $25 cash.
Slight correction: If a player starts between 11:00 a.m. and 8:00
p.m. during weekdays, they relieve $25 after two hours of play. That
is once a day up to five times a week. Greg is there to personally
distribute all of the promotional chips. It's good to see him working
long hours for a change!
> In addition, the food is comped. All in
>all, a pretty good deal for So. Calif. players. I'll certainly make a return
>trip.
We are looking forward to seeing you. We hope to offer 12/24 in the
future if enough players are interested (and/or 15/30 - Greg made me
write about this even though I told him you don't like the $10 small
blind ;-) ).
For anyone who doesn't know the name Greg Plueger, look for his
smiling mug on page 75 of the most recent Card Player. Many of you
who play yellow chip in Los Angeles will recognize him as one of the
nicest players in town. He plans on running a classy top section, and
will work hard to make positive changes.
Comment just in from the peanut gallery (i.e., Greg, who once again is
eating me out of house and home as I write): "Bullies be warned:
Abusive behavior will not be tolerated!"
Good Luck and Hope to See You Soon! Bring Friends!
Regards,
Rick (with help from my techno-phobe friend Greg)
PS We have also made some favorable changes to collection and the
structure in the green chip and smaller games. For example, we don't
take a jackpot drop if there is no flop and have a modified drop of
$1 (which is good for Los Angeles) if there is no flop. We are also
back to using two blinds, which has increased the action tremendously.
The 8/16 holdem is worth playing while waiting for a 20/40.
PPS Of course, I'd really like to see 12/24 holdem (with a small
blind half the size of the big blind) go on a regular basis. Perhaps
RGP can come up with "reasonable" ideas for a promotion(s) to help get
it started.
Steve N
"Rick Nebiolo" <rickn...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> This game has been very strong lately, with several
> new customers trying it out (one of them is me, who is struggling to
> learn to play the game - beat me while you can!). >
This is the best reason I've ever heard to play at the Bike :) Er, Rick,
exactly which days and hours do you play?
Steve N
Rick Nebiolo
Usually Tuesday, Friday and Sunday early evenings and Monday and
Thursday late evenings. Lately on Friday I've been playing the 9/18
Omaha, which had been going on Fridays in recent weeks. BTW, Hero is
an "action" regular at the 20/40 7CS8 now.
Come by and give us a try. You also might be interested in the No
Rebuy $225 7CS8 Octoberfest Tournament on Sunday at 4:15 pm. There
should be extra good mid limit stud eight or better action before the
tournament and a few hours after.
Regards,
Rick
PS What is a "banana" in 7CS8? Everyone asks me" Why do I play those
bananas?", and I'm too embarrassed to ask "What is a banana? ;-)
Rick Nebiolo
Sunday's 7CS8 Tournament is part of "Big Poker October".
BillM
> The games above 20/40 are still collected with time, and I'm
> reasonably sure our rates are better than the competition.
>
Rick, why the switch on the 20? Rake sux time rools... :)
Bjgkaraoke
>> reasonably sure our rates are better than the competition.
>>
>
>Rick, why the switch on the 20? Rake sux time rools... :)
I would normally agree with you, but the collection at the Bike is much more
reasonable than most. In fact, I think it probably is less money off the table
than a time collection.
They take $3 per pot in a full-handed game (8 or 9 players); $2 per pot for 6
or 7 players; and $1 per pot for 5 or less players. In addition, they take
only $1 for a pot with no flop. This adds up to a very reasonable collection
when contrasted with the $14 per hour per player at Hawaiian Gardens, Hollywood
Park, and Hustler; and $16 per hour per player at the Commerce. Also, they
currently give $25 cash for 2 hours of play from 1pm thru 8pm. This adds up to
a very player friendly casino.
Barbara Gallamore
Rick Nebiolo
Bill,
Note that in replying, I'm speaking for myself and my views may not
necessarily represent those of the Bike's management.
I prefer time but I believe the club's management is very well aware
of the advantages as well as the problems associated with collecting
time (e.g., World Class Poker Player's RGP posts on Commerce
collection scams and other matters concerning drop versus time). The
decision was to go with drop.
If you read my posts on 2+2 or RGP, you know I'm in favor of low,
fairly-collected drops, rakes and time charges. I believe this is
good for the industry and the players. I'll be doing everything
possible to persuade management to keep the methods of collection fair
and the amount of drop as low as possible.
Regards,
Rick
Jackie Jr.
<rickn...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>If you read my posts on 2+2 or RGP, you know I'm in favor of low,
>fairly-collected drops, rakes and time charges. I believe this is
>good for the industry and the players. I'll be doing everything
>possible to persuade management to keep the methods of collection fair
>and the amount of drop as low as possible.
>
>Regards,
>
>Rick
>
Rick-
I've followed your frequent posts about the drops and laws in
California and I can confirm that you have always stated support of a
policy that is both fair and profitable. I know that in the past,
many have argued that if the drop was really as bad as was stated,
then why are there so many games going? But I agree with your
counter-argument that clubs do not get an accurate guage of the
"players not there" because they know the drop is bad. The structure
as Barbara describes is as fair as any I've heard of for 20/40,
including Mirage. If you had a hand in it, it is appreciated and
hopefully will cause other casinos to evaluate their collection.
It looks like you have a chance to test your theory of the 'dormant'
potential of increased players that will be brought out with a fair
rake/drop. I hope that you are in a position at the Bike to push
your vision through, and that your low limit games follow suit and
prosper. It is nothing short of a crime against poker that the
Commerce is both the most successful and most expensive option for
poker in SoCal, and that they have no reason to change their
collections. So best of luck to you and the Bike, and as a player who
is ashamed of how little we as a collective fight for better rakes, I
thank you for your efforts.
Jackie
James L. Hankins
> On 11 Oct 2002 14:38:28 -0700, bill...@yahoo.com (BillM) wrote:
> If you read my posts on 2+2 or RGP, you know I'm in favor of low,
> fairly-collected drops, rakes and time charges.
What's a drop? A "rake" is a set amount the dealer takes out of each pot,
right? Simple enough. I've played pot limit where there was no rake. Each
player paid $5 time charge every time a new dealer sat down. That's a time
charge, right?
Is a "drop" different than these things?
Steve N
"Rick Nebiolo" <rickn...@earthlink.net> wrote in message >
> PS What is a "banana" in 7CS8? Everyone asks me" Why do I play those
> bananas?", and I'm too embarrassed to ask "What is a banana? ;-) >
In Stud/8, a "banana" is a high card, 9-K, that would appear to "bust" a
low-looking board. So, if you start with something like (xx)47, hit a K on
fifth and continue with the hand, you're playing bananas.
Maybe I'll see you Sunday, I haven't been to the Bike or played a tourney
for a while, ever since the $5K Legends final, when my opponent trapped me
into getting all my money in on the turn when I was a 4.5-1 favorite :)
Steve N
gicalif
Barb, this is huge news. If we assume 36 hands an hour and 30 at 3
and 3 at $2 and 2 at $1, this adds up to $100 per hour or about the
same as $11 an hour compared to Commerce collection of $16. Assuming
6 hours of play, the $25 rebate is worth about $4 per hour which gets
the collection down to $7 per hour!!!! Over 1000 hours, this puts an
extra $9000 is a players pocket. That doesnt even factor in free
bathroon brakes
Commerce was going to do this, but they said were going to do $4 for
all hands.
But how good are the games? How many props? How many walkers? How
many people see the flop on average?
Rick Nebiolo
<jhan...@cableone.net> wrote:
>What's a drop? A "rake" is a set amount the dealer takes out of each pot,
>right? Simple enough. I've played pot limit where there was no rake. Each
>player paid $5 time charge every time a new dealer sat down. That's a time
>charge, right?
>
>Is a "drop" different than these things?
Generally, a rake is taken in increments with pot size "triggers"
generating each additional dollar in drop. Usually they are based on
a percentage such as 5% with a $3 cap (the triggers would be at $20,
$40, and $60 of called bets). Or they can be structured to take less
up front while allowing for additional drop to be taken from a large
pot. For example, at the Mirage 20/40 holdem one dollar is raked from
a $50 pot, an additional dollar is taken on a $90 pot, a third dollar
is taken on a $160 pot, and a fourth dollar is taken on a $240 pot. A
bet must be called to count toward the pot.
A drop is generally taken "all at once". For example, in limit holdem
games between 3/6 and 9/18, the Commerce takes the entire drop even in
the case of a blind steal. For example, in 3/6 holdem you open raise
the blinds for $6. All opponents including the blinds fold. The
Commerce drops $4 ($3 collection and $1 jackpot). The pre flop raiser
gets the $6 he put in the pot back, (i.e., he wins nothing)! (Note:
This information comes from a survey I conducted on August 20th of
this year - it is possible they have improved the situation since.)
The Bike will take a full drop if there is a flop. If there is no
flop the Bike takes a "modified drop" of $1 and does not take a
jackpot drop (not taking a jackpot drop on no flop is a recent
improvement).
Note that California law does not allow drop to be based on the size
of the pot; however, at the beginning of this year the law was changed
so it can be taken from the pot. Before this year "dead drops" were
common in Los Angeles low limits. A "dead drop" is taken before the
hand begins and does not count towards your bet.
In most cases, the drop, rake and time charges are reduced when the
game is short handed.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Rick
Bjgkaraoke
>many people see the flop on average?
>
Gary is this you? Long time no see. The games are good. I was only there one
afternoon for a few hours and I played in the must move game first and then
moved into the main game. The must move had a couple of props; they said they
only have one prop at a time in the main game.
There were some very liberal players in both games. The action in both games
was good, although I didn't clock how many players were in the pots. I'll
definitely play there again. However, if too many tough players go there like
you, Gary, this could change :). This weekend I'm busy, but I'll probably go
early next week. You're right about one thing: this is very good news for
players looking to play for a reasonable rate. I'm sure if the Commerce starts
taking a per pot collection, it won't be nearly as reasonable as this. I heard
the same as you, $4 per pot. See you there,
KrisppyKreme
advertisements it is going to amount to 20 or $25,000.
Krisppy Kreme