OT: What a great time to be alive! (Sports post)
Raider Fan
as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
Too bad we just missed Jordan for the NBA best.
"This has got to be some sports-related crap, that's all Raiderfan gives a
fuck about." -- Paul Popinjay 2/27/09
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bub
<raidersgo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Too bad we just missed Jordan for the NBA best.
>
and gretzky
Raider Fan
No doubt. I'm glad I'm old enough to have seen and appreciated both of
them in their prime.
"This has got to be some sports-related crap, that's all Raiderfan gives a
fuck about." -- Paul Popinjay 2/27/09
--------�
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Will in New Haven
wrote:
> We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
Pujols isn't even a candidate. He isn't even the best active player.
He's a First Baseman, and a very good one. He would have to outperform
an unnamed Third Baseman offensively by about ten percent to be a
better player. And he does not. You would not score ten percent more
runs with him in the lineup than with the unnamed Third Baseman, you
would score about the same number of runs. If your choice was to play
an average First Baseman and the unnamed Third Baseman or an average
Third Baseman and Pujols you would be a sucker to pick Pujols. Hitting
from a First Baseman is much easier to get.
The unnamed Third Baseman also has more career behind him and is
actually a candidate for the best player ever.
--
Will in New Haven
Pete Rose, who is the most prolific hitter ever because he has the
most Hits, will not go into the Hall of Fame while he is alive.
Raider Fan
> On Dec 18, 12:50�pm, "Raider Fan" <raidersgotscrew...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> > as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> > baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
>
> Pujols isn't even a candidate. He isn't even the best active player.
> He's a First Baseman, and a very good one. He would have to outperform
> an unnamed Third Baseman offensively by about ten percent to be a
> better player.
A-Rod is good, but he's not Pujols.
"This has got to be some sports-related crap, that's all Raiderfan gives a
fuck about." -- Paul Popinjay 2/27/09
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Slim1Der
wrote:
You forgot about JaMarcus Russell!!
Will in New Haven
wrote:
> On Dec 18 2009 12:24 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:
>
> > On Dec 18, 12:50 pm, "Raider Fan" <raidersgotscrew...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> > > as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> > > baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
>
> > Pujols isn't even a candidate. He isn't even the best active player.
> > He's a First Baseman, and a very good one. He would have to outperform
> > an unnamed Third Baseman offensively by about ten percent to be a
> > better player.
>
> A-Rod is good, but he's not Pujols.
Yes, he's a Third Baseman, good enough to play Short, who contributes
just about as much offensively. So he's better. It is very easy, both
now and historically, to find Puhols-level and near Pujols-level
offense at First Base. Michael Jack Schmidt was not the offensive
force A-Rod is and neither was Eddie Mathews. And no one else who ever
played Third is very close. Also, Albert hasn't had a whole career
yet. If we are talking about having one or three of the best years of
all time, sure he's up there.
It's almost exactly the same debate I had some years ago about who was
the best player of the dead ball era. Wagner was a hair behind Cobb
offensively and he was a fucking SHORTSTOP. At that, Cobb was a very
good outfielder, so that argument was actually closer.
Raider Fan
> On Dec 18, 9:50�am, "Raider Fan" <raidersgotscrew...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> > as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> > baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
> >
> > Too bad we just missed Jordan for the NBA best.
> >
> > "This has got to be some sports-related crap, that's all Raiderfan gives a
> > fuck about." -- Paul Popinjay �2/27/09
> >
> You forgot about JaMarcus Russell!!
Good point! We also have a bigger draft bust than Ryan Leaf!
"This has got to be some sports-related crap, that's all Raiderfan gives a
fuck about." -- Paul Popinjay 2/27/09
--------�
Paul Popinjay
news:40ssv6x...@recgroups.com...
> We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
>
> Too bad we just missed Jordan for the NBA best.
>
This is why sports are so important. This is a perfect example. Here, the
country is falling apart, yet people like you are just ecstatic.
Like so many boiling frogs, you think the water is still luke warm. Bread
and circuses, bread and circuses.
phlash74
NFW. Remember, coming out of college there was a real debate about who
was going to be better in the NFL, Leaf or Peyton Manning. How ridiculous
does that seem now? Russell was never seen as a sure thing, more like a
guy with good physical tools who had a lot of potential. Apparently he
lacks the work ethic to turn that potential into performance.
I'm a Charger fan, and watching Peyton go 23-30 for 308 and four TDs last
night, I couldn't help but wonder what might have been if the Colts had
taken Leaf instead. I don't know if there's a player the Raiders could
have taken ahead of Russell that you can say would make that kind of
impact on their long term results.
Michael
U.S. American
-----------------
"Frankly, I think this was a good post. And on its merit too, not just
because you jammed it up Irish Mike's ass pretty good. Icing on the cake.
lol"
-Paul Popinjay, 3/19/08
____________________________________________________________________�
Will in New Haven
wrote:
> "Raider Fan" <raidersgotscrew...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:40ssv6x...@recgroups.com...
>
> > We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> > as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> > baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
>
> > Too bad we just missed Jordan for the NBA best.
>
> This is why sports are so important. This is a perfect example. Here, the
> country is falling apart, yet people like you are just ecstatic.
Excuse me Paul but you and several other people had a discussion
recently about the old days in Gardena while the worls was falling
apart around your ears. I have been listening to some Mike Caro stuff
while the world has been falling apart around our ears. I also read
some fiction recently and I'm sure you watched some television or
played some poker or jerked off or something. RamaShiva continued
being RamaShiva. K9 continued to believe he is infallible. Bea
continued with her project to make everyone who reads UseNet vomit.
People _do_ stuff, talk about stuff, life goes on. Sports is just one
more thing people get interested in. Try to get over the fact that
everyone isn't you.
--
Will in New Haven
>
K9way
and Todd marjuanavich
Recession .. when IMike's neighbor loses his trailer
Depression .. when IMike loses his trailer
Recovery .. when IMike accepts public assistance funded by Obama
Will_gamble
> We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
>
> Too bad we just missed Jordan for the NBA best.
>
>
I didn't know Jack was going to play again.
I can go with Peyton.
Really hard to quantify a 'best' baseball player of all time since there
are so many different things to consider. Of the top of my head, I like
Ricky Henderson.
Yes Gretsky
Yes Lance Armstrong
Yes Phelps
Yes Diana Taurasi
--------�
misanthropic whackjob
> We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
>
Pujols? Seriously? I don't think he is hall of fame caliber.
Pete Rose was the best baseball player of all time, IMO.
> Too bad we just missed Jordan for the NBA best.
>
>
> "This has got to be some sports-related crap, that's all Raiderfan gives a
> fuck about." -- Paul Popinjay 2/27/09
--
I don't care about you! Fuck you! - FEAR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyM4uAJBujA
John the Savage
> We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
>
> Too bad we just missed Jordan for the NBA best.
>
Tiger, yes.
Peyton Manning? You could put him in the conversation, sure, but I
think he has to win more Super Bowls to get this distinction. Right now
I'd even put Brady ahead for "greatness", as well as others like Elway
and Montana. Peyton doesn't exactly have a reputation of coming through
in big games.. (remember Florida? 0-4?)
Pujols?! You have to be kidding. He plays the easiest defensive
position, and is much too young to earn this title yet. Bonds had a
much better career, if tainted, but don't be surprised if Pujols ends up
tainted as well. A-Rod is better right now. Not to mention Babe Ruth,
Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Ty Cobb, Ted Williams, etc. Pujols is not in
that category yet. Not even close.
Jordan you can have for now, but you may not be saying that when the
careers of James and Bryant are done. Kobe is the best scorer in the
history of the NBA, in my opinion, and if he stacks more titles onto his
resume he will have to be in the conversation. He has had an 81 point
game, he is the only player other than Chamberlain to average over 40
points for a month and he has done it multiple times, and while his
career scoring totals are lower than Jordan's, he has played in a lower
scoring era. The LeBron James of the last two years has been a better
all around player than Jordan was at the same age as well, so hold the
phone for him too.
Also, I'll add that in January we will witness the first time a teenager
has officially achieved the number 1 ranking in chess, as Norway's
Magnus Carlsen is published at a rating of 2810. Keep your eye on that boy!
Will in New Haven
wrote:
> On Dec 18 2009 9:50 AM, Raider Fan wrote:
>
> > We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> > as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> > baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
>
> Pujols? Seriously? I don't think he is hall of fame caliber.
>
> Pete Rose was the best baseball player of all time, IMO.
Well, he made the most Outs. He played a lot of positions, none of
them brilliantly. He had very little power and didn't walk much. The
fact that he was _going_ to get the Hits record was very unimportant
when he was in his prime. His Stolen Base Failure Percentage was such
that a sensible manager might have nailed his feet to the base.
He was never the best player in baseball. He was rarely the best
player on his team. He was a great player but among great players he
sucked. Anyone who understood the game could pick two complete All-
Time All-Star Team and never be tempted to pick Rose.
He played Second: You would start Joe Morgan, or Ryne Sandberg or
Rogers Hornsby ahead of him at Second, to name two. He hit better than
most other Second Basemen but he was a really, really bad fielder at
that position, although he tried hard.
He played Third. No one would start him ahead of Mike Schmidt or Ron
Santo. Again, I could name several more.
He was a corner Outfielder but he really could only play Left. No one
would give him playing time if they had Frank Robinson, Ted Williams
or half a dozen others. Someone mentioned Ricky elsethread. HE might
beat out Robinson or Williams but Pete never could. In Right, if he
could play RF, we have Ruth, Aaron and a ton of others.
He played First Base when he was way past his prime. His hitting would
not put him on an All-Time team at First, even if he were in his
prime. Guys who hit the ball hard play that position. Guys like
McCovey.
Since no one sane would put Rose in at Catcher, Short or Center Field,
and of course he can't pitch, there is simply no room for him on the
fist two All-Tiime teams and, frankly, it would be pretty easy to name
two more at each position.
Pujols is certainly better. And Pujols _will_ get into the Hall of
Fame.
And Pete won't.
--
Will in New Haven.
Paul Popinjay
news:BYGdnS2ynscTvrHW...@giganews.com...
> Raider Fan wrote:
>> We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
>> as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
>> baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
>
> Also, I'll add that in January we will witness the first time a teenager
> has officially achieved the number 1 ranking in chess, as Norway's Magnus
> Carlsen is published at a rating of 2810. Keep your eye on that boy!
Congrats to Raiderfan!
This is such a fascinating and exciting topic, I am really on the edge of my
seat. Oh wow, golf, baseball, even chess. My pulse is just racing.
-Pee Pee
Will_gamble
I found out today that the good looking nurse practitioner at our office
will be sticking her finger up my ass next year for my 'Healthy You'
Talk about pulse racing
misanthropic whackjob
Considering the government is constantly shoving it's whole fist up there,
how will you feel it?
--
I don't care about you! Fuck you! - FEAR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyM4uAJBujA
________________________________________________________________________�
John the Savage
Well, to keep it more on topic, I'll also point out that the all time
greatest poker player in the history of the world is currently active as
well, and in fact posting right here on RGP as "Beldin the Sorcerer".
Will_gamble
> >
> > I found out today that the good looking nurse practitioner at our office
> > will be sticking her finger up my ass next year for my 'Healthy You'
> >
> > Talk about pulse racing
>
> Considering the government is constantly shoving it's whole fist up there,
> how will you feel it?
>
>
Go ahead Brew, rain on my parade.
---�
Travel A
Gretzky sucks.
Obviously, Jack Nicklaus is the greatest holder of titles in golf. How
could Tiger Woods posssibly be the greatest of all time? Until Tiger
Woods is at the top for 30 years like Jack, you have no argument. With
Tiger Woods lifestyle and lack of personal disciplne, don't be surprised
if just burns out before long.
I'd rather watch Peyton Manning play than any other quarterback, myself,
but how do you just dismiss Tom Brady's record?
Why do the left wing groupie types, consistently get it wrong on
everything?
girlfriend@sbcglobal.net Kelly
news:vhptv6x...@recgroups.com...
>
> I found out today that the good looking nurse practitioner at our office
> will be sticking her finger up my ass next year for my 'Healthy You'
>
> Talk about pulse racing
>
I'll be sticking some hands up there a lot sooner than that, big boy, soon
as we have our next RGP tournament.
toodles,
Kel
Porsche_Dan
> We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
>
> Too bad we just missed Jordan for the NBA best.
>
>
> "This has got to be some sports-related crap, that's all Raiderfan gives a
> fuck about." -- Paul Popinjay 2/27/09
If you can separate the athlete from the asshole, I enjoy watching Kobe
Bryant as much as I did Jordan. And what about Lebron James?
______________________________________________________________________�
K9way
> We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
>
> Too bad we just missed Jordan for the NBA best.
Actually ..I ws one of the lucky ones , if this how you want to look at it
I was a sports better when the following people played
gretsky
jordan
bird
magic johnson
brett
Rose
montana
rice
Jordan was the best BB player
Montana the best QB
Rice was the best Reciever
Baseball.. Rose , Brett , Aaron, Mays
Dont ever get caught up in the "now" era when you talk about "greatest
ever " players
Montana was absolutely the best 'winning " QB in football history ..NO
QUESTION
>
>
> "This has got to be some sports-related crap, that's all Raiderfan gives a
> fuck about." -- Paul Popinjay 2/27/09
Recession .. when IMike's neighbor loses his trailer
Depression .. when IMike loses his trailer
Recovery .. when IMike accepts public assistance funded by Obama
________________________________________________________________________�
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K9way
> On Dec 18 2009 9:50 AM, Raider Fan wrote:
>
> > We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> > as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> > baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
> >
>
> Pujols? Seriously? I don't think he is hall of fame caliber.
PUJOLS GOES THE HOF IF HE FINISHES HIS CARREER IN "GRIFFEY" FASHION ..ie
even if he slows down and mails in the last 8 years ..he is a first ballot
'shoe-in "
>
> Pete Rose was the best baseball player of all time, IMO.
Do you know that Rose broke 19 records in one game ?
>
> > Too bad we just missed Jordan for the NBA best.
> >
> >
> > "This has got to be some sports-related crap, that's all Raiderfan gives a
> > fuck about." -- Paul Popinjay 2/27/09
>
>
> --
> I don't care about you! Fuck you! - FEAR
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyM4uAJBujA
Recession .. when IMike's neighbor loses his trailer
Depression .. when IMike loses his trailer
Recovery .. when IMike accepts public assistance funded by Obama
____________________________________________________________________�
K9way
if for some reason they extended the 'all-time " roster to 26 players
.Rose would be on every ballot card
he was one of those guys who couldnt run , couldnt throw , couldnt hit
(LOL) and didnt have any power .
ALL THE MOTHERFUCKER DID WAS BEAT YOU !!
he would make all-time team just for his "heart ' alone .
Recession .. when IMike's neighbor loses his trailer
Depression .. when IMike loses his trailer
Recovery .. when IMike accepts public assistance funded by Obama
______________________________________________________________________�
Pepe Papon
<paulpo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>"Raider Fan" <raidersgo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:40ssv6x...@recgroups.com...
>> We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
>> as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
>> baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
>>
>> Too bad we just missed Jordan for the NBA best.
>>
>
>
>This is why sports are so important. This is a perfect example. Here, the
>country is falling apart, yet people like you are just ecstatic.
As we should be. The Yankees are once again World Champs.
>Like so many boiling frogs, you think the water is still luke warm. Bread
>and circuses, bread and circuses.
I didn't realize we all had a duty to remain constantly depressed. The
thing about sports is that, for many people, they're *fun*. Is it OK
with you that people find ways to have fun?
--
~ Seth Jackson
MySpace URL - http://www.myspace.com/sethjacksonsong
Songwriting and Music Business Info: http://www.sethjackson.net
misanthropic whackjob
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:38:36 -0800, "Paul Popinjay"
> <paulpo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >"Raider Fan" <raidersgo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:40ssv6x...@recgroups.com...
> >> We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> >> as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> >> baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
> >>
> >> Too bad we just missed Jordan for the NBA best.
> >>
> >
> >
> >This is why sports are so important. This is a perfect example. Here, the
> >country is falling apart, yet people like you are just ecstatic.
>
> As we should be. The Yankees are once again World Champs.
>
> >Like so many boiling frogs, you think the water is still luke warm. Bread
> >and circuses, bread and circuses.
>
> I didn't realize we all had a duty to remain constantly depressed. The
> thing about sports is that, for many people, they're *fun*. Is it OK
> with you that people find ways to have fun?
The last president (formerly known as the worst president ever, but not
anymore) stopped playing golf as he found it inappropriate to be playing
sports while sending people to their deaths.
> --
> ~ Seth Jackson
>
> MySpace URL - http://www.myspace.com/sethjacksonsong
> Songwriting and Music Business Info: http://www.sethjackson.net
--
I don't care about you! Fuck you! - FEAR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyM4uAJBujA
______________________________________________________________________�
Pepe Papon
<raidersgo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
>as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
>baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
Pujols the best of all-time? No way.
Pujols has a career OPS+ of 170. That's pretty damn great, but there
are 3 players I can think of off the top of my head who beat that
handily. Ted Williams had an OPS+ of 191. Barry Bonds had an OPS+
of 181 and, unlike Pujols, was a very good fielder and baserunner in
his early years. Tops on the list is Babe Ruth, who had a career
OPS+ of 207 obrt 22 seasons. I addition, he was an all-star caliber
pitcher in his early years.
Oh, and Lou Gehrig also beats Pujols with a 179 career OPS+, not to
mention that he was one of the great fielding 1Bs of all time. Mickey
Mantle had an OPS+ of 172, and was one of the greatest fielders ever
at a demanding position.
As a matter of fact, it's debatable whether or not Pujols is even the
best of the current era. A-Rod hits about 30 points of OPS less than
Pujols, but plays a far more demanding defensive position and plays it
well. In fact, A-Rod played SS until he came to the Yankees and was
arguably the best all-time at the position. He only switched to 3B to
accomodate his teammate Derek Jeter.
>Too bad we just missed Jordan for the NBA best.
>
>
>"This has got to be some sports-related crap, that's all Raiderfan gives a
>fuck about." -- Paul Popinjay 2/27/09
>
>-------�
>: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
Pepe Papon
<aca...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>Pete Rose was the best baseball player of all time, IMO.
You misspelled "most overrated".
HTH
bub
wrote:
>Bobby Orr is far and away the greatest hockey player of all time.
>
>Gretzky sucks.
please state the numbers to back this up. as usual, you're wrong. orr
was good but has nowhere the numbers, as does any hockey player, as
gretzky has
no one player has ever dominated a team sport like gretzky, period.
bub
wrote:
>Bobby Orr is far and away the greatest hockey player of all time.
>Gretzky sucks
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/nhl/news/1999/04/14/gretzky_tribute/
simple article well worth reading written in 1999
here are some highlights but the whole article is worth reading
"Do you realize Gretzky had more assists than Bobby Orr, Frank
Mahovlich and Mike Bossy combined?
He broke Gordie Howe's alltime assist record in 1,086 fewer games than
Howe took to set it. That's 13 seasons!
Do you know that Gretzky has the first, second, third, fourth, fifth,
sixth, seventh, eighth, 10th, 11th and 12th greatest assists seasons
in NHL history?
On Sunday, as Gretzky played his last game, I heard people say he was
the Michael Jordan of hockey. Horsepuck. Jordan was the Gretzky of
basketball.
In 1983-84 Gretzky could've stopped playing on Jan. 7 and still won
the scoring title. That's almost three months before the end of the
season. How's this? Gretzky took the single-season points record from
152 to 215, an increase of 41%. Jordan would've had to average 71
points a game to do that! "
Jerry Sturdivant
"Paul Popinjay" <paulpo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:hghbth$4fu$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
The great spectators. Even the Romans saw the value of sports entertainment.
They had the first taxpayer-paid sports stadium. Pay your shekel to get in;
buy a bag of popcorn and a beer (I know, I know) and be entertained by your
favorite gladiator.
Even then the armchair enthusiast would bitch about how they could do
better. ("Look at that asshole, he let that other gladiator sneak up behind
him and spear him. Shit! If he lives he'll be on the injured list for
months!")
There are the few of us that jumped out of planes, raced cars and entered
poker tournaments; but in the long run, it's still the fat-ass with the TV
remote that pays the tab and keeps the best, like Tiger, up to his lips in
hookers and yachts.
Jerry (with his handicaps) 'n Vegas
- If law school is so hard to get through why are there so many lawyers?
Will in New Haven
Yes, he would be handy to have on the roster. No, he wouldn't be on
any top 26 because there would still be twenty or more better
players.
>
> he was one of those guys who couldnt run , couldnt throw , couldnt hit
> (LOL) and didnt have any power .
>
> ALL THE MOTHERFUCKER DID WAS BEAT YOU !!
He was no teams that had Bench, Morgan, Mike fucking SCHMIDT and
several other guys who beat you. He was never the best player on one
of those teams.
>
> he would make all-time team just for his "heart ' alone .
Whoever you left off the team instead of him would have had plenty of
heart also.
Saying Rose is an obvious Hall of Famer is clearly correct. I think
people put him on all-time great teams largely BECAUSE he is barred.
He was a really good player for a long, long time.
Who do you leave off this team?
P: just pick ten great Pitchers. Rose can't replace a Pitcher.
C: Bench, Berra, really not relevant who. Rose couldn't play the
position
1B: McCovey, Pujols, any of five or six or more other guys who hit
with power.
2B: Morgan, Hornsby, he played Second when he came up but lost the job
because he was awful at it. But Hornsby was no glove man either.
3B: Schmidt, Brett several others.
LF: Frank Robinson, Ted Williams (leaving out Henderson, Bonds,
Musial. Rose is way down any list)
CF: Mays, DiMaggio, and no one would put Rose in CF anyway
RF: Aaron, Ruth and Rose didn't have the arm to play RF regularly
So who on that team are you going to replace because of Pete's fucking
heart? You could replace one of the reserves so that you had Rose's
versatility but he would never start.
Will in New Haven
wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 09:50:28 -0800, "Raider Fan"
>
> >We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> >as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> >baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
>
> Pujols the best of all-time? No way.
>
> Pujols has a career OPS+ of 170. That's pretty damn great, but there
> are 3 players I can think of off the top of my head who beat that
> handily. Ted Williams had an OPS+ of 191. Barry Bonds had an OPS+
> of 181 and, unlike Pujols, was a very good fielder and baserunner in
> his early years. Tops on the list is Babe Ruth, who had a career
> OPS+ of 207 obrt 22 seasons. I addition, he was an all-star caliber
> pitcher in his early years.
>
> Oh, and Lou Gehrig also beats Pujols with a 179 career OPS+, not to
> mention that he was one of the great fielding 1Bs of all time.
Is that why they called him "Tanglefoot" when he came up? It is true
he improved because he worked hard at everything he did but the
footwork at the position was never easy for him. He would have been an
Outfielder, he was quite mobile, but his arm wasn't good. Gehrig was
never considered a great fielding First Baseman outside of puff pieces
about him.
Mickey
> Mantle had an OPS+ of 172, and was one of the greatest fielders ever
> at a demanding position.
Mantle had the best single year a ballplayer ever had. I forget
whether it was '56 or '57, and part of the reason is that his
defensive value exceeded that of Ruth or Aaron or Williams by so much.
Aaron was a great Right Fielder but that is never as valuable
defensively as a great Center Fielder, which Mantle was in those
years. Obviously, I'm saying Mays never had a year at that exalted
level, because he didn't. Wagner had a couple and he was a great
Shortstop but the Dead Ball Era makes that comparison difficult.
Mantle's time as "one of the greatest fielders ever" was very short.
> As a matter of fact, it's debatable whether or not Pujols is even the
> best of the current era. A-Rod hits about 30 points of OPS less than
> Pujols, but plays a far more demanding defensive position and plays it
> well.
I already pointed that out. Thirty points of OPS means your ream
scores fewer than ten more runs in a year. And the team that picks
Pujols has to put up with _typical_ numbers from its Third Baseman. It
is fairly easy to find hitting from a First Baseman, although some
teams don't seem to realize this.
In fact, A-Rod played SS until he came to the Yankees and was
> arguably the best all-time at the position.
If he had stayed at the position and continued to play as well as he
had been playing in all areas of the game, it would still have been
arguable, but only arguable, that he was better than Wagner.
He only switched to 3B to
> accomodate his teammate Derek Jeter.
You can't spell accommodate either.
--
Will in New Haven
Fuck Shoeless Joe too
Will in New Haven
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:26:17 -0800, nine...@webtv.net (Travel A)
> wrote:
>
> >Bobby Orr is far and away the greatest hockey player of all time.
>
> >Gretzky sucks.
>
> please state the numbers to back this up. as usual, you're wrong. orr
> was good but has nowhere the numbers, as does any hockey player, as
> gretzky has
>
> no one player has ever dominated a team sport like gretzky, period.
Bill Russell, with no fucking numbers but championships.
Two NCAA championships, One Olympic gold medal, eleven NBA
championships in thirteen years.
And no one has mentioned Susan Butcher. Which is reasonable in one way
because her _dogs_ did the running. But more people have been to the
top of Mt. Everest than have finished the Iditarod.
James L. Hankins
"K9way" <ad1...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
news:bq6uv6x...@recgroups.com...
> Montana was absolutely the best 'winning " QB in football history ..NO
> QUESTION
I tend to think Montana was the best. But of course if you have to qualify
it as being the best "winning" as you say, you have to throw in Terry
Bradshaw, right?
I think Montana gets the edge right now, but Manning and Brady are in the
conversation and can certainly earn their way past him at some point.
Travel A
Re: OT: What a great time to be alive! (Sports post)
Group: rec.gambling.poker
Date: Sat, Dec 19, 2009, 2:03am (PST+2)
From: bub <b...@plottus.com>
I wrote:
Bobby Orr is far and away the greatest hockey player of all time.
Gretzky sucks.
Pud blithered:
please state the numbers to back this up. as usual, you're wrong. orr
was good but has nowhere the numbers, as does any hockey player, as
gretzky has
no one player has ever dominated a team sport like gretzky, period.
...............................................................................
I wrote:
I knew some moron would bring up "then numbers" when it comes to
Gretzky, that's all you got.
First of all, Bobby Orr was a defenseman, numbnuts; plenty of players in
history have more goals, you idiot. Second of all, he passed the puck,
and set up goals and prevented opposition goals like no on else could.
He could dominated a game in a sport that's not given to a single player
dominance.
Next, if you're not from New England and watched and went to the games,
it's doubtful that you know what you're talking about. You'd have to be
a big hockey fan from another area of the country, (and be honest in
your assessment) to really have a knowledgeable opinion; Bobby Orr
played back at the time of the orginal handful of teams in the NFL; he
also played when hockey first expanded to St Louis, etc.
The games weren't televised outside of the "two team" cities of specific
games played in those days.
In fact, it was because of Bobby Orr that hockey became so popular and
expanded.
Gretzky was deliberately fed the puck to accumulate the stats. Gretzsky
couldn't skate or stick-handle anywhere near Bobby Orr's level. No one
could. That's how great he was; no one came close.
Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about. In other words,
start now.
Bobby O
Travel A
Re: OT: What a great time to be alive! (Sports post)
Group: rec.gambling.poker
From: bub <b...@plottus.com>
I wrote:
Bobby Orr is far and away the greatest hockey player of all time.
Gretzky sucks
Pud Googled:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/nhl/news/1999/04/14/gretzky_tribute/
simple article well worth reading written in 1999 here are some
highlights but the whole article is worth reading
"Do you realize Gretzky had more assists than Bobby Orr, Frank Mahovlich
and Mike Bossy combined?
He broke Gordie Howe's alltime assist record in 1,086 fewer games than
Howe took to set it. That's 13 seasons!
Do you know that Gretzky has the first, second, third, fourth, fifth,
sixth, seventh, eighth, 10th, 11th and 12th greatest assists seasons in
NHL history?
On Sunday, as Gretzky played his last game, I heard people say he was
the Michael Jordan of hockey. Horsepuck. Jordan was the Gretzky of
basketball.
In 1983-84 Gretzky could've stopped playing on Jan. 7 and still won the
scoring title. That's almost three months before the end of the season.
How's this? Gretzky took the single-season points record from 152 to
215, an increase of 41%. Jordan would've had to average 71 points a game
to do that! "
.................................................................................
I wrote:
Gretzky was a forward, you imbecile.
Also, there are a plethora of players who had much greater hockey skills
that Gretzky, notably Bobby Orr.
Gretzky was fed the puck, he sucks. Plus he played when the the league
was so watered-down in competition that's it's a joke. So many (most)
players who played in Gretzky's time wouldn't make a farm team in Bobby
Orr's playing days. This is unique to hockey; no other major sport has
had such negative parity as hockey. It's a major consideration in stat
history. Hockey got spectacularly worse as it expanded.
So, keep Googling for irrelevant articles, you moron.
bub
wrote:
>I knew some moron would bring up "then numbers"
really don't see where "then numbers" was said
>First of all, Bobby Orr was a defenseman, numbnuts; plenty of players in
>history have more goals, you idiot.
like paul coffey, ray bourque?
>Second of all, he passed the puck,
>and set up goals
Most assists: Wayne Gretzky, 1963
Most assists, including playoffs: Wayne Gretzky, 2223
Most assists, one season: Wayne Gretzky, 163 (1985�86)
Most assists, one season, including playoffs: Wayne Gretzky, 174
(1985�86)
Most assists, one game Wayne Gretzky (three occasions) 7
Most assists, one road game Wayne Gretzky 7
>He could dominated a game in a sport that's not given to a single player
>dominance.
yeah , i know. i said that about gretzky. glad to see you agree.
>Next, if you're not from New England and watched and went to the games,
>it's doubtful that you know what you're talking about
got a site or proof of that or is that just you talking out your ass
again?
>Bobby Orr
>played back at the time of the orginal handful of teams in the NFL;
nfl? uhh ok . so you are saying there was less players and competition
back then huh? i guess an old withered fart like you would know.
>In fact, it was because of Bobby Orr that hockey became so popular and
>expanded.
need to google nhl expansion due to gretzky
old farts like you have to hang on to numb dreams even when someone
else comes along that shatters the record book unlike it has ever been
shattered before. so keep talking your shit that doesn't stand up,
it's worth the laugh.
gretzky= greatest hockey player of all time, so far
Travel A
.............................................
Travel A
Re: OT: What a great time to be alive! (Sports post) Group:
rec.gambling.poker Date: Sat, Dec 19, 2009, 2:03am (PST+2) From: bub
<b...@plottus.com>
I wrote:
Bobby Orr is far and away the greatest hockey player of all time.
Gretzky sucks.
Pud blithered:
please state the numbers to back this up. as usual, you're wrong. orr
was good but has nowhere the numbers, as does any hockey player, as
gretzky has
no one player has ever dominated a team sport like gretzky, period.
.............................................
I wrote:
I knew some moron would bring up "the numbers" when it comes to Gretzky,
that's all you got.
First of all, Bobby Orr was a defenseman, numbnuts; plenty of players in
history have more goals, you idiot. Second of all, he passed the puck,
and set up goals and prevented opposition goals like no on else could.
He could dominated a game in a sport that's not given to a single player
dominance.
Next, if you're not from New England and watched and went to the games,
it's doubtful that you know what you're talking about. You'd have to be
a big hockey fan from another area of the country, (and be honest in
your assessment) to really have a knowledgeable opinion; Bobby Orr
played back at the time of the orginal handful of teams in the NHL; he
Travel A
retarded rant. Bobby Orr was a defenseman, you numbskull, and Gretzky's
goals/assist totals are completely irrelevant. Plus, if great forwards
of the past were playing against the inferior talent that Gretzky faced,
their numbers would be easy to accumulate, also.
Btw, I was barely in Jr high (I played on the hockey teams throughout
school and off-season college leagues year 'round ) when Bobby Orr was
playing.
What organized school teams did you make, Pud? (Jerkin'-off doesn't
count as a sport.)
You obviously know zero about hockey and you're clueless about Bobby
Orr.
Stop posting, you're an idiot. Plus, you make conservatives look bad.
Conservatives are intelligent; you don't qualify.
Will in New Haven
Saying Gretsky's numbers are _irrelevant_ or saying he sucks is way
overstating your case. But Orr was better. He revolutionized his
position and was the key player on a great team.
If someone were just saying Gretsky was a fine player and not saying
he was the best ever you wouldn't argue and you know it.
bub
<bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>But Orr was better. He revolutionized his
>position and was the key player on a great team.
but gretzky was better. he revolutionized his
position and was the key player on a great team.
>If someone were just saying Gretsky was a fine player
i said orr was a good player, just that gretzky was better. like i
said, he shattered the record books unlike they have ever been
shattered before,period.
oops i should have used the " i said " "you said" format so popular
with the old timers around here
bub
wrote:
what a well thought out, coherant response
bub
wrote:
>Well noted, Pud, that you hid from every point that destroys your
>retarded rant. Bobby Orr was a defenseman, you numbskull, and Gretzky's
>goals/assist totals are completely irrelevant.
i named a couple defensemen who had better goal totals, which i think
you were trying to use as a point. showed all the assists gretzky had
and how he "he passed the puck,
and set up goals" but you avoided it, per usual.
>Plus, if great forwards
>of the past were playing against the inferior talent that Gretzky faced,
>their numbers would be easy to accumulate, also.
can't wait to see your proof for this one
>Btw, I was barely in Jr high (I played on the hockey teams throughout
>school and off-season college leagues year 'round ) when Bobby Orr was
>playing.
are you al bundy???
>What organized school teams did you make, Pud?
baseball,football,hockey, still play hockey. BTW,the name is bub
>(Jerkin'-off doesn'tcount as a sport.)
how did you find that out? all that work you did for the upperclass
men didn't count for your letter? just got you a big forearm taking
care of all the real atheletes, huh?
>Conservatives are intelligent;
yes we are
Pepe Papon
There weren't any of the advanced fielding stats back then, but Gehrig
had a fielding percentage of .991 and a range factor of 9+. That's
30% higher than the league average RF, which was a little more than 6.
>Mickey
>> Mantle had an OPS+ of 172, and was one of the greatest fielders ever
>> at a demanding position. �
>
>Mantle had the best single year a ballplayer ever had. I forget
>whether it was '56 or '57, and part of the reason is that his
>defensive value exceeded that of Ruth or Aaron or Williams by so much.
>Aaron was a great Right Fielder but that is never as valuable
>defensively as a great Center Fielder, which Mantle was in those
>years. Obviously, I'm saying Mays never had a year at that exalted
>level, because he didn't. Wagner had a couple and he was a great
>Shortstop but the Dead Ball Era makes that comparison difficult.
>Mantle's time as "one of the greatest fielders ever" was very short.
Mantle won the Triple Crown in '56.
>> As a matter of fact, it's debatable whether or not Pujols is even the
>> best of the current era. � A-Rod hits about 30 points of OPS less than
>> Pujols, but plays a far more demanding defensive position and plays it
>> well.
>
>I already pointed that out. Thirty points of OPS means your ream
>scores fewer than ten more runs in a year. And the team that picks
>Pujols has to put up with _typical_ numbers from its Third Baseman. It
>is fairly easy to find hitting from a First Baseman, although some
>teams don't seem to realize this.
>
>�In fact, A-Rod played SS until he came to the Yankees and was
>> arguably the best all-time at the position. �
>
>If he had stayed at the position and continued to play as well as he
>had been playing in all areas of the game, it would still have been
>arguable, but only arguable, that he was better than Wagner.
Add Wagner to the list of players who were clearly better than Pujols.
>He only switched to 3B to
>> accomodate his teammate Derek Jeter.
>
>You can't spell accommodate either.
I could have if I'd been paying attention.
Beldin the Sorcerer
"bub" <b...@plottus.com> wrote in message
news:tr5ri5943aamcemdu...@4ax.com...
Gretzky had more time to play, being canadian.
You want a cite to bolster your argument, use this one :
Gretzky became known for setting up behind the net, an area that was
nicknamed "Gretzky's office" because of his skills there.[2] He could pass
to teammates like Luc Robitaille and Jari Kurri, or jump out quickly for a
wrap-around shot. Gretzky became accustomed to the position after watching
and studying Bobby Clarke play in that zone.[114] In honour of that, for his
last game there were two large "99"s painted on the ice behind the
goal.[115] Hall of Fame defenceman Bobby Orr said of Gretzky, "He passes
better than anybody I've ever seen. And he thinks so far ahead."[116]
Gretzky himself referred to it as having "... a feeling about where a
teammate is going to be, a lot of times, I can turn and pass without
looking."[1]
Beldin the Sorcerer
"Beldin the Sorcerer" <beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hgl4g3$vh8$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Style of play
Orr inspired the game of hockey with his command of the two-way game, which
was unique for a defenceman. Defencemen with goal-scoring ability were not
common in the NHL before his arrival. Orr was unique in that he could score
goals as well, and he influenced countless defencemen who followed him. His
speed, most notably a rapid acceleration, and his open-ice artistry
electrified fans as he set almost every conceivable record for a defenceman.
According to former goaltender Ken Dryden, "When [Orr] began to move...the
sensation was unique: All the Canadiens began backpedaling in a small panic,
like beachgoers sighting a coming monster wave. He brought others with him;
he wanted them involved. That's what made him so different: It felt like a
five-player stampede moving toward you-and at his pace. He pushed his
teammates, [because] you're playing with the best player in the league and
he's giving you the puck and you just can't mess it up. You had to be better
than you'd ever been." [9]
In contrast to the style of hanging back defensive play common in the later
1950s and 1960s, Orr was known for his fluid skating and end-to-end rushing.
Orr's rushing enabled him to be where the puck was, allowing him not only to
score effectively but also defend when necessary. According to longtime
Bruins coach and general manager Harry Sinden, "Bobby became a star in the
NHL about the time they played the National Anthem for his first game with
us."[10]
Orr also benefited from playing most of his career in Boston Garden, which
was nine feet (2.7 m) shorter and two feet (0.6 m) narrower than the
standard NHL rink. This suited his rushing style very well, as he was able
to get from one end of the ice to the other faster than in a standard
rink.[11]
His style of play was also hard on his knees and shortened his career. "It
was the way I played," Orr has said. "I liked to carry the puck and if you
do that, you're going to get hit. I wish I'd played longer, but I don't
regret it." Orr stated in 2008. "I had a style - when you play, you play
all-out. I tried to do things. I didn't want to sit back. I wanted to be
involved."[12]
>
Jerry Sturdivant
Gretzky?
Some of you still watch hockey?
The need for violence (car crashes, football hits, et cetera) is about all
that's saved hockey. I use to watch it for the skill of the skaters. I quit
watching when they started allowing more fights and checks (sic). I believe
they even have some sort of rules about how long the referee can wait before
busting up a fight.
Isn't hockey about to fold?
Jerry (knowing when to fold'en) 'n Vegas
- May you be cursed by a Gypsy who stutters...
lvdlrs
> Who do you leave off this team?
>
> C: Bench, Berra, really not relevant who. Rose couldn't play the
> position
Maybe you could put him there since he ruined a very promising career of
one Ray Fosse
during a game that had the same implication as an exhibition game.
Pete Rose is a piece of garbage as so very much deserves to be on the
outside of the HOF.
Listen to what he had to say about that collision years later and tell me
he's a great guy with lots of character.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3_-28IMOh4
Gary (Phhhhtui on you Pete) Philips
_____________________________________________________________________�
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
Travel A
Saying Gretsky's numbers are _irrelevant_ or saying he sucks is way
overstating your case.
I wrote:
Gretzkey's numbers are irrelevant with regard to Bobby Orr. Gretzky was
a forward and Bobby Orr was a defenseman.
Will In New Haven Wrote:
But Orr was better.
I wrote:
Pud, are you listening? You moron.
Will In New Haven wrote: (referencing Bobby Orr)
He revolutionized his position and was the key player on a great team.
I wrote:
Right, Bobby Orr played his position like no one else; goals,
everything; He was so fast that other player seemed to be, literally,
standing still. He didn't just play his position the best, he was "in a
league of his own."
Will In New Haven wrote:
If someone were just saying Gretsky was a fine player and not saying he
was the best ever you wouldn't argue and you know it.
I wrote:
No, I wouldn't argue that. But I say he sucks because I just don't like
Gretzkey. His hockey skills were routine; he just got a lot of goals,
that's all. Very unremarkable player beyond the goals/assists stats.
Statements saying that Gretzky's the greatest hockey player ever, are
just ludicrous.
Travel A
Turd wrote:
Gretzky?
Some of you still watch hockey?
The need for violence (car crashes, football hits, et cetera) is about
all that's saved hockey. I use to watch it for the skill of the skaters.
I quit watching when they started allowing more fights and checks (sic).
I believe they even have some sort of rules about how long the referee
can wait before busting up a fight.
Isn't hockey about to fold?
I wrote:
They did ruin the game. Way too many teams in cities that don't
traditionally support the game. It became so diluted in talent, and
money-grubbing in gimmicky playoffs format, that it was "unwatchable" by
the mid 80's, (that's when I stopped following hockey). A team making
the playoffs in hockey is meaningless. With so many teams in the
playoffs, it's just "part-2" of the regular season. Plus, they don't,
finally, end the season until practically the Fourth of July. Complete
turnoff.
Alim Nassor
> On Dec 18 2009 10:55 AM, Raider Fan wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 18 2009 12:36 PM, Slim1Der wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 18, 9:50 am, "Raider Fan" <raidersgotscrew...@hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > We have the best golfer of all time active (once he comes off his break)
> > > > as well as the best quarterback of all time (Peyton Manning) and best
> > > > baseball player of all time (Albert Pujols).
>
>
> > > > "This has got to be some sports-related crap, that's all Raiderfan gives
> a
> > > > fuck about." -- Paul Popinjay 2/27/09
>
> > > You forgot about JaMarcus Russell!!
>
> > Good point! We also have a bigger draft bust than Ryan Leaf!
>
> > "This has got to be some sports-related crap, that's all Raiderfan gives a
> > fuck about." -- Paul Popinjay 2/27/09
>
> NFW. Remember, coming out of college there was a real debate about who
> was going to be better in the NFL, Leaf or Peyton Manning. How ridiculous
> does that seem now? Russell was never seen as a sure thing, more like a
> guy with good physical tools who had a lot of potential. Apparently he
> lacks the work ethic to turn that potential into performance.
>
> I'm a Charger fan, and watching Peyton go 23-30 for 308 and four TDs last
> night, I couldn't help but wonder what might have been if the Colts had
> taken Leaf instead. I don't know if there's a player the Raiders could
> have taken ahead of Russell that you can say would make that kind of
> impact on their long term results.
>
> Michael
> U.S. American
>
> -----------------
> "Frankly, I think this was a good post. And on its merit too, not just
> because you jammed it up Irish Mike's ass pretty good. Icing on the cake.
> lol"
>
> -Paul Popinjay, 3/19/08
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
That's like the debate when Aikman came out, would he or Steve Walsh
be the best QB. Steve who?
Will in New Haven
wrote:
> "bub" <b...@plottus.com> wrote in message
>
> news:tr5ri5943aamcemdu...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:29:49 -0800 (PST), Will in New Haven
> > <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>
> >>But Orr was better. He revolutionized his
> >>position and was the key player on a great team.
>
> > but gretzky was better. he revolutionized his
> > position and was the key player on a great team.
>
> >>If someone were just saying Gretsky was a fine player
>
> > i said orr was a good player, just that gretzky was better. like i
> > said, he shattered the record books unlike they have ever been
> > shattered before,period.
>
> > oops i should have used the " i said " "you said" format so popular
> > with the old timers around here
>
> Gretzky had more time to play, being canadian.
Orr was signed to a professional contract at eleven. He played plenty.
--
Will in New Haven
>
bub
<beld...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>Gretzky had more time to play, being canadian.
>
>You want a cite to bolster your argument, use this one :
>Gretzky became known for setting up behind the net, an area that was
>nicknamed "Gretzky's office" because of his skills there.[2] He could pass
>to teammates like Luc Robitaille and Jari Kurri, or jump out quickly for a
>wrap-around shot.
"He gave the game an imagination, passing off nets and skates and
Gatorade bottles. One night in St. Louis, he flipped in a goal from
behind the net off the back of goalie Mike Liut and scored not once
but twice on face-offs."
>"He passes better than anybody I've ever seen. And he thinks so far ahead."[116]
>Gretzky himself referred to it as having "... a feeling about where a
>teammate is going to be, a lot of times, I can turn and pass without
>looking."[1]
when playing in all-star games and team canada games,players were told
to just put their stick on the ice as they were coming down and if
gretzky thought they had a shot he would pass them the puck and put it
right on the blade of the stick for them to shoot.
Will in New Haven
> Gretzky?
>
> Some of you still watch hockey?
>
> The need for violence (car crashes, football hits, et cetera) is about all
> that's saved hockey. I use to watch it for the skill of the skaters. I quit
> watching when they started allowing more fights and checks (sic). I believe
> they even have some sort of rules about how long the referee can wait before
> busting up a fight.
I guess you never really watched it. There was more checking, and
HARDER checking, back before people dropped their gloves at every
opportunity. Of course, there were fights back then and there were
some fierce ones but they weren't as common. Of course, the skill to
throw a punch effectively while on skates is not easily learned and
many, many NHL punches are more appealing as comedy than as violence.
It is certainly a better game than NFL football has become as they
make more and more rules to encourage the offenses.
Travel A
Well noted, Pud, that you hid from every point that destroys your
retarded rant. Bobby Orr was a defenseman, you numbskull, and Gretzky's
goals/assist totals are completely irrelevant.
Pud dribbled:
i named a couple defensemen who had better goal totals, which i think
you were trying to use as a point.
(I wrote: Pud the dumbfuck, "i" should always be "I"; a capital letter.)
I wrote:
No, that's just what you wish was the point.
I repeat, you hide from every point. That particular point is that,
Gretzky's a forward and Bobby Orr's a defenseman, imbecile. Your entire
retarded premise is Gretzky's goals/assist stats; which one doesn't use
in comparison to a defenseman. It's like comparing a tight end's
receptions totals to a wide receiver's receptions totals in football,
moron.
Plus, as far as other defensemen who played later, Bobby Orr had a
shortened career due to a nagging, career long knee injury, and the
other two defensemen mentioned played against so many laughably easy
teams and played more games per season.
Also, there are many more records than just single season goals totals.
In addition, there are Bobby Orr's unbelievabe hockey skills that
obviously aren't cited in goals figures.
The main point, at this point, is that you're an idiot.
And when answering the question about making school teams, try it
without lying. We know that you stated that you're warehouse worker, so
we're ruling out B.U.
Will in New Haven
wrote:
There weren't advanced fielding stats but there were the opinions of
the people who watched the games. One ironic thing about Wally Pipp,
the previous Yankee First Baseman, was that he put in many hours
coaching Gehrig on his play at First Base and then lost his job to
him. If I had the Historical Abstract with me I could quote you some
reasons why saying he was a great fielder is an exaggeration. He
covered more ground than most and was better than average by the
middle of his career but he started out with a lot of problems.
>
> >Mickey
> >> Mantle had an OPS+ of 172, and was one of the greatest fielders ever
> >> at a demanding position.
>
> >Mantle had the best single year a ballplayer ever had. I forget
> >whether it was '56 or '57, and part of the reason is that his
> >defensive value exceeded that of Ruth or Aaron or Williams by so much.
> >Aaron was a great Right Fielder but that is never as valuable
> >defensively as a great Center Fielder, which Mantle was in those
> >years. Obviously, I'm saying Mays never had a year at that exalted
> >level, because he didn't. Wagner had a couple and he was a great
> >Shortstop but the Dead Ball Era makes that comparison difficult.
> >Mantle's time as "one of the greatest fielders ever" was very short.
>
> Mantle won the Triple Crown in '56.
I think I remember that the year he _didn't_ win the Triple Crown was
better.
>
>
> >> As a matter of fact, it's debatable whether or not Pujols is even the
> >> best of the current era. A-Rod hits about 30 points of OPS less than
> >> Pujols, but plays a far more demanding defensive position and plays it
> >> well.
>
> >I already pointed that out. Thirty points of OPS means your ream
> >scores fewer than ten more runs in a year. And the team that picks
> >Pujols has to put up with _typical_ numbers from its Third Baseman. It
> >is fairly easy to find hitting from a First Baseman, although some
> >teams don't seem to realize this.
>
> > In fact, A-Rod played SS until he came to the Yankees and was
> >> arguably the best all-time at the position.
>
> >If he had stayed at the position and continued to play as well as he
> >had been playing in all areas of the game, it would still have been
> >arguable, but only arguable, that he was better than Wagner.
>
> Add Wagner to the list of players who were clearly better than Pujols.
Wagner was clearly better than _anyone_ except Ruth, Aaron, Mays,
Schmidt, Bonds, Henderson and ARod, in no particular order. He was
probably better than most of those but it isn't _clearly_ He was the
best player of the Dead Ball Era. I would love to see what he could
have done hitting the lively ball.
> >He only switched to 3B to
> >> accomodate his teammate Derek Jeter.
>
> >You can't spell accommodate either.
>
> I could have if I'd been paying attention.
I only knew it was wrong because of the red line my spell checker put
under it when I went to reply.
bub
>Orr was signed to a professional contract at eleven. He played plenty.
gretzky started skating at not even 3 years old
when he was 6 he played on a league for 10 year olds
when he was 9 he scored 196 goals and was told it was a fluke that
wouldn't happen again. they were right.
the next year when he was 10 he scored 378goals and 139 assists in
just 82 games. also during a tournament that year he scored 50 goals
in 9 games. he appeared on the cover of a national magazone that year
bub
<bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>I guess you never really watched it. There was more checking, and
>HARDER checking, back before people dropped their gloves at every
>opportunity. Of course, there were fights back then and there were
>some fierce ones but they weren't as common. Of course, the skill to
>throw a punch effectively while on skates is not easily learned and
>many, many NHL punches are more appealing as comedy than as violence.
>
>It is certainly a better game than NFL football has become as they
>make more and more rules to encourage the offenses.
check some of the bob probert fights. that was one tough guy
when he was in rehab to get off pain killers, he got into it with a
couple of footballs players who were there for rehab
and beat the crap out of both of them at the same time.
bub
wrote:
you wrote laughable inane prattle
i wrote god you're a stupid fuck
i can see why people kill file you
gretzky is the best hockey player ever, so far.
>
>And when answering the question about making school teams, try it
>without lying. We know that you stated that you're warehouse worker, so
>we're ruling out B.U.
now that's a good one. why don't you be like coleman and say i make
pizzas...
Travel A
Beldin posted an article about Gretzky: Gretzky was "allowed" by the
league, etc., to hang around the goal, which enabled all his cheap,
phony goals and assists. This is what I mean by gimmicky. It was rigged
to pump up the goals and excitement and also pump-up Gretzky,
artificially, in accumulating the big stats.
Before they ruined the game, "a Gretzky wouldn't be able to do this, he
couldn't get away with hanging around the goal; he'd get creamed. Each
opposing team would just send someone out to flatten the muthafucka, end
of story. Gretzky was fed the puck and was also "allowed" to constantly
position himself to get assists, in a place where the goalie, alone,
would have knocked him out of there.
bub
wrote:
>Another point:
>
>Beldin posted an article about Gretzky: Gretzky was "allowed" by the
>league, etc., to hang around the goal, which enabled all his cheap,
>phony goals and assists. This is what I mean by gimmicky. It was rigged
>to pump up the goals and excitement and also pump-up Gretzky,
>artificially, in accumulating the big stats.
>
do you ever tire of making shit up?
show me where beldin said gretzky was "allowed".
>Each opposing team would just send someone out to flatten the muthafucka,
and everytime they tried that he would pass to the open man and goal.
more than one player who played against gretzky said it was like
trying to hit a piece of confetti
>end of story.
yup ,end of story.
>Gretzky was fed the puck
good idea to feed the greatest player ever and get him the puck as
much as possible
>and was also "allowed"
again with the lie of saying beldin said "allowed"
>to constantly position himself to get assists,
damn, that's kinda of the idea ,huh? only the greatest player would do
that
that's why he has more assists than anyone else
>in a place where the goalie, alone,
>would have knocked him out of there.
you do realize he was behind the net, don't you dipshit?
ok, please show where beldin said he was "allowed"
or be considered a little fucking liar, like everyone doesn't know
that already
waiting for your response, ya little twirp.
Paul Popinjay
news:oluoi59lqli0ksugj...@4ax.com...
>
> I didn't realize we all had a duty to remain constantly depressed. The
> thing about sports is that, for many people, they're *fun*. Is it OK
> with you that people find ways to have fun?
> --
That's what you were supposed to say, Pepe, because you're a really dumb
human being. If we're under dictatorship in five years from now, you'll
wish you wasted less time with this sports crap and spent more time
informing yourself and getting involved in what you could to prevent it.
Y'dumb mutherfucker.
Will in New Haven
wrote:
> "Pepe Papon" <hitmeis...@mindspring.dot.com.invalid> wrote in message
Look, people do other things than worry about the state of
civilization. YOU do other things than worry about the state of
civilization. Sports does occupy time for more people than some of the
things other people like to do but, for the most part, it doesn't take
any more time from those individuals than, say, being an internet
personality takes from you or falling in love with strippers does from
RamaShiva.
Again, I ask you, accept the fact that everyone isn't you. Obviously
we cannot get to that wonderful situation where NO ONE is you for
awhile yet, but we can head in that direction.
Travel A
I wrote:
Another point:
Beldin posted an article about Gretzky: Gretzky was "allowed" by the
league, etc., to hang around the goal, which enabled all his cheap,
phony goals and assists. This is what I mean by gimmicky. It was rigged
to pump up the goals and excitement and also pump-up Gretzky,
artificially, in accumulating the big stats.
Pud:
do you ever tire of making shit up?
show me where beldin said gretzky was "allowed".
I wrote:
Made up? Anyone with half a brain can see what hppened and why Gretzky
had an enormous artificial advantage.
Also, I didn't say Beldin said "allowed", you idiot.
I wrote:
Each opposing team would just send someone out to flatten the
muthafucka,
Pud:
and everytime they tried that he would pass to the open man and goal.
more than one player who played against gretzky said it was like trying
to hit a piece of confetti
I wrote:
And you believe that? What is he the invisible man, you dumb fuck? He's
completely vulnerable behind the net, yet, no one went after him. He was
"allowed" to stay bhind the net, no qusetion about it.
I wrote:
Gretzky was fed the puck
Pud blitherd:
good idea to feed the greatest player ever and get him the puck as much
as possible
I wrote:
They artificilly pumped up Gretzky and created the stats. Other players
could be scoriong but they set it up to feed just Gretzky. The whole
thing is phony.
and was also "allowed"
again with the lie of saying beldin said "allowed"
I wrote:
to constantly position himself to get assists,
Pud:
damn, that's kinda of the idea ,huh? only the greatest player would do
that
that's why he has more assists than anyone else
I wrote:
"Only the greatest player would do that" you say? You're an idiot. Do
you think that no other player could think of "sitting" behind the goal?
It was rigged for Gretzky, opposing teams laid off him.
I wrote:
in a place where the goalie, alone,
would have knocked him out of there.
Pud:
you do realize he was behind the net, don't you dipshit?
I wrote:
That's exactly what I'm talkng about, numbnuts. Also, I used the term
"around" the goal; he had to be in front during the times that he's the
one who scores the goal. He just "sat" behind the goal and passed the
puckout in front or an assist. He in no way could get away with that
unless he was "allowed" to do it. It was rigged.
Goalies used to swing their stick at players who did that.
You're so stupid that someone has to tell what was written, before they
tell that you're wrong.
Pud:
ok, please show where beldin said he was "allowed" or be considered a
little fucking liar, like everyone doesn't know
that already.
I wrote:
I never said Beldin said the word "Allowed", reread, imbecile. The
article Beldin posted described what Gretzkey did: hung around the goal,
which includes behind the goal, you idiot. I interpreted what was
happening with that and explaind that Gretzky was obviously allowed to
hang around the goal.
Bobby Orr is the greatest hockey player of all time. You're a complete
idiot.
Travel A
bub
wrote:
>I wrote:
>And you believe that? What is he the invisible man, you dumb fuck? He's
>completely vulnerable behind the net, yet, no one went after him. He was
>"allowed" to stay bhind the net, no qusetion about it.
damn, this is getting better and better. now gretzky was behind the
net and noone went after him even though he was completely vulnerable.
so it's a chrisrobin conspiracy that all the other teams , and no
doubt the league, were in on to let gretzky get more points
>They artificilly pumped up Gretzky and created the stats
>It was rigged for Gretzky, opposing teams laid off him.
someone cue the black helicopters.
please let us know, who are they?????
>It was rigged for Gretzky, opposing teams laid off him.
yup, one big chrissyrobin conspiracy thingy
you are one psycho douchebag ,aint ya, ya little twirp?
gretzky is the greatest hockey player ever, so far.
Travel A
Pepe Papon
In other words, fun isn't OK with you. In that case, the
dictatorship really won't affect you all that much when it comes right
down to it. Your life pretty much sucks now and it'll pretty much
suck then.
Travel A
Travel A
Travel A
"In other words, fun isn't OK with you."
I wrote:
Asking if fun is okay with the Jayster, is like asking if snow is okay
with a polar bear, DUH!
Pepe Papon
<bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>> There weren't any of the advanced fielding stats back then, but Gehrig
>> had a fielding percentage of .991 and a range factor of 9+. �That's
>> 30% higher than the league average RF, which was a little more than 6.
>
>There weren't advanced fielding stats but there were the opinions of
>the people who watched the games. One ironic thing about Wally Pipp,
>the previous Yankee First Baseman, was that he put in many hours
>coaching Gehrig on his play at First Base and then lost his job to
>him. If I had the Historical Abstract with me I could quote you some
>reasons why saying he was a great fielder is an exaggeration. He
>covered more ground than most and was better than average by the
>middle of his career but he started out with a lot of problems.
He may have started out with problems, but the numbers show that he
was pretty damn good for the bulk of his career.
Pepe Papon
You just figured that out?
bub
<hitme...@mindspring.dot.com.invalid> wrote:
>You just figured that out?
>--
> ~ Seth Jackson
yeah , it was the "It was rigged for Gretzky, opposing teams laid off
him. " that showed me the light.
Paul Popinjay
>
> In other words, fun isn't OK with you. In that case, the
> dictatorship really won't affect you all that much when it comes right
> down to it. Your life pretty much sucks now and it'll pretty much
> suck then.
> --
This is not about me, Pepe, this is about you. I mean, there's at least two
levels of social strata between us, perhaps three, I assure you. You hardly
qualify to be talked down to.
K9way
> - Show quoted text -
>
> That's like the debate when Aikman came out, would he or Steve Walsh
> be the best QB. Steve who?
when it comes to "all-time " sports greats ...people from Texas shouldnt
even bother to ante !!
Recession .. when IMike's neighbor loses his trailer
Depression .. when IMike loses his trailer
Recovery .. when IMike accepts public assistance funded by Obama
---�
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
K9way
> when it comes to "all-time " sports greats ...people from Texas shouldnt
> even bother to ante !!
>
Earl Campbell was never stopped for a loss in his entire college carreer
NOT ONCE !!!
________________________________________________________________________�
Travel A
Travel A
Travel A
"This is not about me, Pepe, this is about you. I mean, there's at least
two levels of social strata between us, perhaps three, I assure you. You
hardly qualify to be talked down to."
I wrote:
Ha! (chortle). This is fun!
Travel A
John_Brian_K
> was going to be better in the NFL, Leaf or Peyton Manning. How ridiculous
> does that seem now? Russell was never seen as a sure thing, more like a
> guy with good physical tools who had a lot of potential. Apparently he
> lacks the work ethic to turn that potential into performance.
>
> I'm a Charger fan, and watching Peyton go 23-30 for 308 and four TDs last
> night, I couldn't help but wonder what might have been if the Colts had
> taken Leaf instead. I don't know if there's a player the Raiders could
> have taken ahead of Russell that you can say would make that kind of
> impact on their long term results.
>
> Michael
> U.S. American
>
> -----------------
> "Frankly, I think this was a good post. And on its merit too, not just
> because you jammed it up Irish Mike's ass pretty good. Icing on the cake.
> lol"
>
> -Paul Popinjay, 3/19/08
Calvin Johnson. Thanks Raiders!
==========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
==============================
47.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
JBK
------�
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
John_Brian_K
>
> Yes, he's a Third Baseman, good enough to play Short, who contributes
> just about as much offensively. So he's better. It is very easy, both
> now and historically, to find Puhols-level and near Pujols-level
> offense at First Base. Michael Jack Schmidt was not the offensive
> force A-Rod is and neither was Eddie Mathews. And no one else who ever
> played Third is very close. Also, Albert hasn't had a whole career
> yet. If we are talking about having one or three of the best years of
> all time, sure he's up there.
>
> It's almost exactly the same debate I had some years ago about who was
> the best player of the dead ball era. Wagner was a hair behind Cobb
> offensively and he was a fucking SHORTSTOP. At that, Cobb was a very
> good outfielder, so that argument was actually closer.
>
> --
> Will in New Haven
This is the dumbest argument I ever heard. Not your response Will, but
the argument in general.
How about we put Pujols or A Rod on the mound for ONE year and see if they
can win 20 games. Oh wait that would be damned near impossible ........
right?
==========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
==============================
47.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
JBK
-------�
Will in New Haven
> > > A-Rod is good, but he's not Pujols.
>
> > Yes, he's a Third Baseman, good enough to play Short, who contributes
> > just about as much offensively. So he's better. It is very easy, both
> > now and historically, to find Puhols-level and near Pujols-level
> > offense at First Base. Michael Jack Schmidt was not the offensive
> > force A-Rod is and neither was Eddie Mathews. And no one else who ever
> > played Third is very close. Also, Albert hasn't had a whole career
> > yet. If we are talking about having one or three of the best years of
> > all time, sure he's up there.
>
> > It's almost exactly the same debate I had some years ago about who was
> > the best player of the dead ball era. Wagner was a hair behind Cobb
> > offensively and he was a fucking SHORTSTOP. At that, Cobb was a very
> > good outfielder, so that argument was actually closer.
>
> > --
> > Will in New Haven
>
> This is the dumbest argument I ever heard. Not your response Will, but
> the argument in general.
>
> How about we put Pujols or A Rod on the mound for ONE year and see if they
> can win 20 games. Oh wait that would be damned near impossible ........
> right?
>
Position players, even across eras, CAN be compared usefully. You
can't compare a position player with a Pitcher, although you can
actually look at the trading history and that gives one an odd
result.
Everyone goes on and on about the importance of Pitching, even quoting
that old fool Connie Mack about pitching being 75% of the game.
However, General Managers don't seem to agree. Great position players
don't get traded for great Pitchers. Even good position players rarely
get traded straight-up for pitching. Whatever argument people want to
make, GMs historically haven't bought into it.
Pitching can, at the most, be 100% of stopping the opposition. And
this gives no credit for defensive play. Pitching is 0% of scoring
runs, which is just as important. Since defensive play does matter,
pitching is less than fifty percent of the game. On the other hand, no
position player's offense is anywhere near half of his team's
offense.
Bob Feller was a great Pitcher, maybe the greatest of his time. The
Yankees would have been INSANE to trade DiMaggio for Feller. The Red
Sox would have been (more) insane (than usual) to trade Ted Williams
for Feller.
Connie Mack managed for a very long time because he owned the team.
John_Brian_K
> can't compare a position player with a Pitcher, although you can
> actually look at the trading history and that gives one an odd
> result.
>
> Everyone goes on and on about the importance of Pitching, even quoting
> that old fool Connie Mack about pitching being 75% of the game.
> However, General Managers don't seem to agree. Great position players
> don't get traded for great Pitchers. Even good position players rarely
> get traded straight-up for pitching. Whatever argument people want to
> make, GMs historically haven't bought into it.
>
> Pitching can, at the most, be 100% of stopping the opposition. And
> this gives no credit for defensive play. Pitching is 0% of scoring
> runs, which is just as important. Since defensive play does matter,
> pitching is less than fifty percent of the game. On the other hand, no
> position player's offense is anywhere near half of his team's
> offense.
>
> Bob Feller was a great Pitcher, maybe the greatest of his time. The
> Yankees would have been INSANE to trade DiMaggio for Feller. The Red
> Sox would have been (more) insane (than usual) to trade Ted Williams
> for Feller.
>
> Connie Mack managed for a very long time because he owned the team.
>
> --
> Will in New Haven
I was talking about Babe Ruth of course.
==========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
==============================
47.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
JBK
----�
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com
Will in New Haven
Why does it matter?
He was never a Pitcher and an overwhelming hitter _at the same time_ A
team couldn't get the value of both simultaneously. Well, they could
have but they would have had to pay him a _lot_ more money. He wasn't
willing to do both for the (very high for the time) salary he was
making. That they didn't have him keep on pitching shows that those
general managers didn't follow Connie Mack's thinking either.
What his pitching did was keep the Dead Ball Era managers and coaches
from messing with his batting. They _hated_ strikeouts and didn't
appreciate Walks. They didn't like their players taking pitches. Ruth
took pitches, he struck out, he walked all the time, hit the ball very
hard. They would have made him meet the ball, put the ball in play,
just like they tried with all of their other position players. They
might have ruined him, made him into a high-average hitter who didn't
walk all that much and had only fair power.
Pepe Papon
Prentending to talk down to people must be your idea of fun. Knock
yourself out.-
FL Turbo
<hitme...@mindspring.dot.com.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 06:24:11 -0800, "Paul Popinjay"
><paulpo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>"Pepe Papon" <hitme...@mindspring.dot.com.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:6j7ui55si6dhu12d0...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>
>>> In other words, fun isn't OK with you. In that case, the
>>> dictatorship really won't affect you all that much when it comes right
>>> down to it. Your life pretty much sucks now and it'll pretty much
>>> suck then.
>>> --
>>
>>
>>This is not about me, Pepe, this is about you. I mean, there's at least two
>>levels of social strata between us, perhaps three, I assure you. You hardly
>>qualify to be talked down to.
>
>Prentending to talk down to people must be your idea of fun. Knock
>yourself out.-
Popinjay always has fun wherever he goes on RGP.
As one poster said about Iowahawk:
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/
Blog Qu�b�cois
"If Iowahawk ever decides to turn his guns on you, accept your beating
with good grace and a rueful chuckle.
If you try to fight back, it only gets funnier."
Pepe Papon
<bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>> I was talking about Babe Ruth of course.
>
>Why does it matter?
>
>He was never a Pitcher and an overwhelming hitter _at the same time_ A
>team couldn't get the value of both simultaneously.
He was both in 1918, when he led the league in HRs, SLG, OPS, and
OPS+. He wasn't too bad in 1917, either, although he didn't hit a
lot of HRs.
>Well, they could
>have but they would have had to pay him a _lot_ more money. He wasn't
>willing to do both for the (very high for the time) salary he was
>making. That they didn't have him keep on pitching shows that those
>general managers didn't follow Connie Mack's thinking either.
They didn't want him to do both because a pitcher needs rest between
starts. They eventually decided that he was a lot more valuable as
the greatest hitter of all time than as a very good pitcher.
Paul Popinjay
>
> Prentending to talk down to people must be your idea of fun. Knock
> yourself out.-
> --
Pepe, even my gardeners think you're a dumb mutherfucker.
Will in New Haven
wrote:
> "Pepe Papon" <hitmeis...@mindspring.dot.com.invalid> wrote in message
Your have gardeners? Why does this sound like bullshit? Oh, yes,
because it's bullshit.
Will in New Haven
wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:10:40 -0800 (PST), Will in New Haven
>
> >> I was talking about Babe Ruth of course.
>
> >Why does it matter?
>
> >He was never a Pitcher and an overwhelming hitter _at the same time_ A
> >team couldn't get the value of both simultaneously.
>
> He was both in 1918, when he led the league in HRs, SLG, OPS, and
> OPS+. He wasn't too bad in 1917, either, although he didn't hit a
> lot of HRs.
I should have qualified that. They didn't get the _benefit of his
being an overwhelming hitter. He didn't get enough plate appearances.
>
> >Well, they could
> >have but they would have had to pay him a _lot_ more money. He wasn't
> >willing to do both for the (very high for the time) salary he was
> >making. That they didn't have him keep on pitching shows that those
> >general managers didn't follow Connie Mack's thinking either.
>
> They didn't want him to do both because a pitcher needs rest between
> starts. They eventually decided that he was a lot more valuable as
> the greatest hitter of all time than as a very good pitcher.
He was asked twice to play the outfield and take a regular turn in the
rotation. Boston asked him as he was making the transition and the
Yankees asked him after a year or two. Both times he said no. He was
happy to pitch an occasional game and show what he could do but he
wanted more money for double duty. So his value as a Pitcher cannot be
added to his value as a position player, although his hitting would
certainly help his team when he was pitching.
Paul Popinjay
news:13676d0f-33a8-4e4a...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 22, 12:39 am, "Paul Popinjay" <paulpopin...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> "Pepe Papon" <hitmeis...@mindspring.dot.com.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:1i50j5p73nkmprdgl...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > Prentending to talk down to people must be your idea of fun. Knock
> > yourself out.-
> > --
>
> Pepe, even my gardeners think you're a dumb mutherfucker.
You have gardeners? Why does this sound like bullshit? Oh, yes,
because it's bullshit.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even the paperboy who delivers the newspaper to my gardener's house, thinks
Pepe is a dumb fuck.
Pepe Papon
That's a pretty good retort. I won't even try to top it.
There's no doubt that you're good at this Usenet flame game thingy.
I've glad you're good at something.
Pepe Papon
<bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>> They didn't want him to do both because a pitcher needs rest between
>> starts. � They eventually decided that he was a lot more valuable as
>> the greatest hitter of all time than as a very good pitcher.
>
>He was asked twice to play the outfield and take a regular turn in the
>rotation. Boston asked him as he was making the transition and the
>Yankees asked him after a year or two. Both times he said no. He was
>happy to pitch an occasional game and show what he could do but he
>wanted more money for double duty. So his value as a Pitcher cannot be
>added to his value as a position player, although his hitting would
>certainly help his team when he was pitching.
It can't add to his value but it can add to the assessment of his
overall ability.