I'm a card rack...by Daniel N.
Danielnegreanu
I never would. My starting table for the first World Poker Tour event had:
Perry Green
Bob Stupak
Doyle Brunson
John Bonetti
Surindar Sunar
Richard Tatalovich
Maureen Feduniak
(of note)
We started with 20,000 in chips, and I played very well to get to about
27,000 in chips.
HAND 1: Stupak limps for 100, Bonetti limps for 100, Maureen calls the 100 in
the SB. I have QcQd and raise 500 more from the BB, all call except Maureen.
FLOP: Qs2s3c
I check Stupak bets 900, Bonetti raises to 5000. I call the 5000 and raise
it 5000 more. Stupak folds, and Bonetti re-raises me 7000, which I of course
call hoping Bonetti has 3-3. He doesn't. He has A-7 of spades, and beat me
when a spade hit the turn.
HAND 2: I whittled down to 7000, but got myself back to 14,000 for this hand
which I had trouble with. I limped UTG with J-J, Doyle also limped for 100.
Surindar made it 800 on the button, and both Doyle and I called.
FLOP: 8c4c4d. I check, Surindar bets 1200, I call Doyle folds. Turn 4. I
check, Surinder bets 3000, I call. River 2, I check, Surindar bets 6500, I
foolishly pay off the two aces and am down to about 3000.
I get all the way down to 2400, win a couple pots and get back up to 6200 for
HAND 3:
I limp for 100 with Kc-K. Bonettil limps on the button, and both blinds
call. FLOP:8c5c7s. SB bets out 600 (he did that a lot), Surindar calls from
the BB. I was worried, and called. Bonetti calls the 600 and raises 4000. If
either blind calls I'm folding, but the SB folds and Surindar folds 8-5 in the
BB. I decide to gamble here and go with what I suspect to be a pair and a draw
by the way Bonetti was playing. Bonetti did have the Q-7 of clubs, but missed
this time and I was back in the game.
HAND 4: I'm up again to 18,000. Four people limp, I limp with 10-10. Flop
Qh-10h-5h. Bonetti bets 800, all fold to me. I make it 2400, Bonetti calls.
Turn 9c. Bonetti bets 1500. I thought that bet may want a cheap draw, so I
raised Bonetti his last 3500 more. He has Kh-Jd for a straight. He beat my
set once again.
I picked up AA three times in 5 hands to get back in the game.
HAND 5:
First UTG, then in the SB. Surinder makes it 700 to go. At this point I have
about 10,000 in the SB and smooth call.
FLOP: 7-6-4 rainbow. I check, Surindar bets 1600, I raise 7350 more all-in.
Surindar studies, and finally calls with the A-7.
Going into the last level, I came back and played two hands poorly, and was
down to 15,000 again.
HAND 6: I limp with the Jd-9d UTG. Only me and the BB Mel Weiner remain.
FLOP: Kc-Jh-5c
Mel Checks, I bet 300 into a 700 pot, Mel calls. Turn 5h. Mel bets 1500, I
quickly call. River As. Mel bets 3000. I study, and study, and study some
more. Finally, I pick up a monster tell and call. I then hear my favorite two
words in poker "Good Call".
HAND 7: The very last hand of the night. One limper, I limp next to the button
with Kd-9d.
FLOP: Qs-Js-10s. All check to me, I bet 1000. Doyle Brunson, who had played a
flawless 8 hours up to that point, check-raises me 3000 more from the SB. I
sense he may be bluffing, as he is the only one that can break me and I think
he was well aware of what I was thinking. I thought he could be making a play,
but decided, I could find better spots and folded the straight.
After being down to 2400 and suffering more than a few bad beats, I'm
thrilled to have 31,150 going into Day two. Having Doyle 3 to my right,
actually helped me get back in the game. With a player like that behind you,
it forces you to stay in line. He reads hands and people so well, and doesn't
let you rob his blind without a fight. So, I played a little more snug in late
position than I normally do.
Overall, I was extremely impressed with his play, and EXPECT him to make the
final table. With a little luck, I hope to be there too. I was really happy
with the way I played today, especially considering the emotional roller
coaster I went through. If I can repeat that performance, I like my chances...
Daniel Negreanu
kidp...@hotmail.com
www.fullcontactpoker.com
Octo the Genarian
"Danielnegreanu" <danieln...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020528042919...@mb-fz.aol.com...
Jd00123
>This was a day I don't want to forget, so I figured if it was archived on rgp
>I never would. My starting table for the first World Poker Tour event had:
>Perry Green
>Bob Stupak
>Doyle Brunson
>John Bonetti
>Surindar Sunar
>Richard Tatalovich
>Maureen Feduniak
>(of note)
>
Could you look around and spot the sucker?J/K,seriously,take a look at table 21
and what do you think will happen there.
Mike McClain
"Danielnegreanu" <danieln...@aol.com> wrote :
>
> HAND 7: The very last hand of the night. One limper, I limp next to the button
> with Kd-9d.
> FLOP: Qs-Js-10s. All check to me, I bet 1000. Doyle Brunson, who had played a
> flawless 8 hours up to that point, check-raises me 3000 more from the SB. I
> sense he may be bluffing, as he is the only one that can break me and I think
> he was well aware of what I was thinking. I thought he could be making a play,
> but decided, I could find better spots and folded the straight.
>
This doesn't seem like a good laydown to me, Daniel. Did you still feel
good about it later, or do you have some regrets?
Thanks for sharing the hands.
Mike.
AlwaysAware
>. I call the 5000 and raise
>it 5000 more.
>Bonetti calls the 600 and raises 4000.
I thought this was only said in the movies:-)
Good luck.
Joan
NICFARGOTM
At what point could you have laid down the jacks agaiinst Surindar's aces,
once you called on the flop weren't you committed. Tom, The Shamrock Kid
Lee Munzer
"Mike McClain" wrote ...
I disagree, Daniel was correct in folding. He was in a precarious calling
situation with little chance to be the aggressor on the turn or river vs. a
dangerous player. Thus, he can lose the pot two ways. Although Doyle is
very capable of running a pure bluff, let's take a look at what Doyle and
Daniel know and you'll see why Daniel made the correct play IMO (listing not
intended to be all encompassing as they know what I know and more -- Daniel
knows some hockey stuff).
Doyle knows:
1) Daniel is the wrong player to run a pure bluff raise against (Maureen,
for example, is the right player).
2) While Daniel can be broken by Doyle, Daniel has enough chips to cripple
Doyle.
3) Daniel has "something" (he risked a "feeler" $1,000 into scare board,
knowing an opponent's check-raise was possible). That something could be a
flush, one big spade, a straight (note he only has second nut straight and
Doyle is cagey enough to have varied his play by not raising pre-flop with
A-K), a set, top two pair, or a bluff. Running a T $1,000 bluff here is a
possibility for Daniel, but not a strong one IMO. Anything, but a bluff is
trouble for Doyle unless he is holding, of course.
4) Doyle knows Daniel had an opportunity to get a free card, but eschewed
it.
5) Daniel has position for the remainder of the hand.
6) It is the type of hand that can turn very ugly for the out of position
icon if Daniel is holding big (let's say As-8s, for example).
Daniel knows:
1) Doyle is aware of all of the above, yet (arguably) the best NL player in
the game wants to get seriously involved in this pot.
2) Doyle could have bet but went for the check-raise to get a player or
players more committed to the pot ... note, the difference between his
option of betting or check-raising. Check-raising has a better chance of
setting the hook because a bet is easier to get away from in this small
pre-flop bet pot looking at a scary board. While you might say (correctly)
that Doyle is capable of elevated level of thought ("he thinks I think; but,
I know he thinks I think" type stuff), I'm gonna go with either first or
third level in this analysis.
3) Doyle can knock Daniel out of the event by holding a flush, drawing a
flush, full house etc. Even if he holds a hand like Ac-8s (remember he's in
the SB), he could snap Daniel with a king on the turn or river. Note, I'm
not suggesting that to be a likely holding for Doyle.
4) Assuming a decent read, Doyle can force Daniel to fold his straight when
a spade turns or rivers (especially if Doyle has a spade which is likely).
He might even bet $15,000 if the 10d turned. The analysis problem Daniel
faces on the flop rates to get more hazardous as cards fall considering
Daniel has no redraw.
5) This $3,000 will not get the pot checked down -- his preference in this
situation.
To me, it's a clear fold!
Daniel, excellent job of writing up the hands (makes me feel like I'm in the
action). Feel free to add to my analysis or discuss the Maple Leafs:).
Good luck today,
Lee
Snoball369
find out if he had B'way...Good luck in the tourneyMarty
Danielnegreanu
>I disagree, Daniel was correct in folding. He was in a precarious calling
>situation with little chance to be the aggressor on the turn or river ....
Well said Lee, I don't feel like I have to answer this question anymore, as
you already have. One key of course, is I wasn't willing to face 3 big bets,
'hoping' he misses, or 'hoping' he is bluffing. A million cards hurt my hand,
any spade, board pair, or K.
Daniel Negreanu
kidp...@hotmail.com
www.fullcontactpoker.com
Danielnegreanu
>Daniel,
> At what point could you have laid down the jacks agaiinst Surindar's aces,
>once you called on the flop weren't you committed. Tom, The Shamrock Kid
>
>
Actually, I 'planned' on laying them down on the river if he bet again. The
flop of course was a call. I called the turn because their was a flush draw on
the flop. He may have put me on the flush draw, so bet one more time to
protect whatever he had.
The river call was bad on my part. Once I called the turn, he wasn't going
to bluff the river. I just wasn't sure he wouldn't also value bet J-J or 10-10
himself. In hindsight, I think I should have folded on the river.
Daniel Negreanu
kidp...@hotmail.com
www.fullcontactpoker.com
skp
In limit poker (ring games), are there heads-up situations where you
might call on the turn with a hand (as opposed to a draw) knowing that
you will fold on the river if you don't improve and your opponent bets
again? Or, is it the case that when you call the turn, you are
generally committed to callling the river unless the river card is
pretty ugly?
Let's take an example:
Say, you are in the bb with 98. There's a preflop raise from the UTG
player and everyone folds. You call and it's heads-up.
The flop is 932. The turn is a 4. For the sake of argument, we'll
say that you checkcalled both streets.
The river is another deuce. Now, I assume that there are players
against whom you would checkcall a river bet and players against whom
you would bet to induce a call from a big Ace (particularly if the
flop had a flush draw which increases the likelihood of you being
called by a big Ace).
But, my question is whether there are a lot of players that you play
against where you would say to yourself before the river card is dealt
that "I will call the turn and checkfold if he bets the river"?...i.e.
I gather that was your thinking in this JJ vs. AA hand although you
forgot to fold :-).
Now, the game that you play in is a much much different animal than
the one I frequent here in Vancouver, B.C. Perhaps, you could think
back to your Toronto 10-20 days and tell me if that situation used to
come up in those games on a regular basis.
Thanks.
Newgca
>good about it later, or do you have some regrets?
>
>Thanks for sharing the hands.
>
>
>Mike.
What do you expect Mike? Daniel is the New Brown nose, after accusing Men of
Cheating.
Of course it is a BAD LAYDOWN.
Lee Munzer
"Snoball369" wrote ...
> Daniel--That's some laydown of your straight to Doyle---let me know if you
ever
> find out if he had B'way...Good luck in the tourneyMarty
I don't think Daniel will find out, but Doyle might have had a lot of hands
that would allow him to bet aggressively (including a flopped flush). To
continue with Daniel's no redraw hand (except to an improved straight) would
have been bad play ... his laydown was clearly correct IMO.
Lee
Mike McClain
"Lee Munzer" <luck...@lvcm.com> wrote :
>
> Doyle knows:
> ..
>
> Daniel knows:
> ..
>
I'm sorry, but the 'doyle knows, daniel knows' method of analysis is
a bit too convoluted for me. Your reasons do not sum up to anything
of any use. Could you perhaps assign a probability that Doyle has a
drawing hand vs a hand that beats Daniel?
Much of your logic leans towards the fact that Doyle thinks it unlikely
that DN is running a bluff. I disagree with this... DN was last to act
with a scary board. He knows people tend to avoid confrontations
on the last hand of the day, and a $1k investment is all it will take
to try to win the pot. I'm unsure of the size of the pot, but the actions
from previous hands indicates it is probably either $1200 or $2000.
This flop is very similar to another hand that DN described from
another tournament, in which he called in early position, the fired
out at a suited flop of something like JT9 into a number of players,
then showed his bluff. With the position on this hand, how can he
not be capable of trying to steal a pot in this spot?
You describe DN's expected respect of Doyle as a reason tht Doyle
would not attempt to bluff this board,. but in actuality, it encourages
his bluff. If the players left to act behind him have indicated disinterest
in this pot, and they likely have if it is the last hand of the day and they
actually are disinterested, then Doyle's only concern is DN.
DN's bet can represent many hands, ranging all the way from
a stone-cold bluff, to a made flush, to just about any hand with
the As. Doyle's reraise would tend to get called by the hands with
the As, and some of the made hands. So a reraise would be a bit
tricky, but what happens when Doyle holds the As himself?
Suddenly, the percentage of hands that DN will call with drops
to a level in which bluffing becomes a very good situation. DN
will fold many hands, and when he does call, Doyle has many outs.
So what hands should Doyle put in a reraise with? Any hand with
the As, for starters. If he had a made flush or a higher straight,
other than the nut flush or second nut flush, don't you think he'd
probably put in a bigger raise, in an effort to win the pot now or
to force the As to pay an unreasonably high price?
It is extremely unlikely that Doyle has DN beat at this point. I
think DN should expect to have the best hand at least 80% of
the time. I agree that there are some scary streets to come, but
not enough to justify letting this hand go.
I think the proper play is one of two things: (1) Go all-in. This
is the only bet size in which you can force the As to pay a premium
for his draw. Your all-in could convince Doyle you've already got
the flush, or at least a straight with a singleton spade in your hand,
taking a few of his outs away, and encouraging him to fold. The
bet size makes it borderline in terms of whether or not you'd prefer
a call or fold from the As, but for tourney purposes, I'm sure you'd
prefer the fold. Also, Doyle might let smaller flushes go with your
all-in, since he would expect to either be drawing dead, or that you
would have many outs vs his hand.
(2) Call the bet. If a harmless card falls on the turn, and Doyle
makes either a small or large bet into you, you've got to decide
the chances of him having you beat. The only reason to call on
the flop instead of jamming would be if you could either get more
information on the turn, or if you could get Doyle to bluff some
chips into a stronger hand. You definitely get more information
(in the value of the turn card), and you need your knowledge of
Doyle to help you decide if you get additional information from
his bet size.
>
> To me, it's a clear fold!
>
There is no chance that it is a CLEAR fold. None.
Do this for me... slowly increase the strength of Daniel's hand,
then let me know when you've reached a spot in which he should
put in more chips. Ignore the drawing hands, just stick with
the made hands that will not improve. At what point do you
think Daniel should not fold? Do you think he should fold the
small flushes? How big does his hand have to get before he can
call or reraise?
When you take the ace of spades out of Daniel's possible holdings,
and you've only got him calling with such a small selection of made
hands, he could be extremely exploited by a person holding the
ace of spades. I'm saying that it is quite likely that Doyle could
have done so, or that he was willing to risk a pot-sized raise to
see if DN was the one with the As.
Daniel... would you have tended to fold this hand earlier in the
day (or in the midst of any day in which you had a similar chip
position)? If not, then you let the fact that it was the last hand of
the day encourage you to avoid a confrontation, which is easily
something Doyle could have expected.
Mike.
Kewpie Doll
to sort of "get into your heard" when playing at this level.
>> I picked up AA three times in 5 hands to get back in the game
Too bad that didn't happen online, the conspiracists would have a field day
with it.
One could make a good argument about the lack of a proper shuffle in B&M
cardrooms when stuff like this happens, but we won't go there.
"Danielnegreanu" <danieln...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020528042919...@mb-fz.aol.com...