Hey Risky, about Jerry's Nugget

[paulpo...@sbcglobal.net]

Hey Risky, here's today's article saying that Jerry's nugget got a reprieve. Do you ever go to Jerry's Nugget?


http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/last-minute-loan-allows-jerrys-nugget-continue-local-ownership


I was wondering if you know the story about some shit Jerry's Nugget pulled about 4 or 5 years ago, involving a video poker promo they launched. I'll tell it to you if you don't already know about it.

By the way, bankruptcy and losing a gaming license couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of assholes. lol

[risky biz]

I've never been in there. Tell me the story. I haven't heard it.

[paulpo...@sbcglobal.net]

On Tuesday, September 24, 2013 10:41:25 PM UTC-7, risky biz wrote:

>
> I've never been in there. Tell me the story. I haven't heard it.

They were going to have "DOUBLE ROYALS" on weekends or Saturdays or something. Well, in the vpfree database of games they had there it had not been updated and looked like a wasteland, even though double royals is still good even on a lot of games that aren't so good. But I knew Jerry's better than the internet did. I had been in there recently and recorded all of their GREAT games. They had several. And it was not just for quarters, they had good games for DOLLARS!

I was in California when I heard of their announced promo. I said to myself, "This is too good, they'll get hammered". I spoke to a couple friends over there, and apparently others were already on this promo, ready to pounce. I heard they camped out in the parking lot so as to grab the good machines when the promo started.

The promo started, and the place was packed. Packed with ADVANTAGE PLAYERS. lol I don't know whether it was the first day or second, but I heard at about 4:00 in the morning, the boss, Angelo, walked through the casino floor with Security behind him, pointing at everyone sitting in front of a video poker game. "You, cash out. And YOU, cash out. Pick it up, and go to the cage. You're all outta here". lol One friend I know saw what was unfolding and quickly moved to a slot machine. He went undetected. lol

So not only did he have a mass banning, but I hear he took everyone's pictures and names and sent that info to other casinos. They weren't just kicked out or barred from video poker, they were TRESPASSED!

One of my friends had not gone in on promo night but had been playing there before the promo started. About a week later he went in to play and after about 2 minutes they tapped him on the shoulder and threw him out too.

So this was THEIR promo, and THEIR math work, and they weren't smart enough to know they were giving away the store. I think some plays amounted to $60 an hour or more. No wonder the place was packed and people camping outside.

But here's something even worse. The guy, Angelo, apparently got busted back in the 60s or 70s in some scam trying to cheat at Caesar's Palace, or something like that. And somehow after years of "good behavior" he was allowed to manage Jerry's. Can you believe that shit? I will look for the link on that, I have read it before. Fucking guy was a thief, and is still a piece of work.

So when I read about the financial troubles at Jerry's Nugget, I don't exactly shed too many tears for them.

[paulpo...@sbcglobal.net]

On Wednesday, September 25, 2013 1:45:41 AM UTC-7, paulpo...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

>
> But here's something even worse. The guy, Angelo, apparently got busted back in the 60s or 70s in some scam trying to cheat at Caesar's Palace, or something like that. And somehow after years of "good behavior" he was allowed to manage Jerry's. Can you believe that shit? I will look for the link on that, I have read it before. Fucking guy was a thief, and is still a piece of work.
>

"Stamis, 73, lost his gaming license in 1975 when he was caught participating in a scam to cheat Caesars Palace. Although he was never convicted of any crime, Stamis admitted his role in the scandal and had his gaming license revoked."

http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/jerrys-nugget-executive-has-gaming-license-restored


Read the article, and what I find particularly amusing is that they allowed him to be like manager of the restaurant or food and beverages or whatever, with "no ties to gaming". Sounds like something right out of a movie, doesn't it? lol

[paulpo...@sbcglobal.net]

"Decades after he lost a gambling license for involvement in a blackjack cheating scam, Angelo Stamis won approval Thursday from Nevada regulators to oversee casino operations at his family's club in North Las Vegas.

"I'm going to prove I'm going to do everything right," Stamis, 73, said after the state Gaming Commission, meeting in Las Vegas, voted unanimously to license him as assistant general manager at Jerry's Nugget.

"Stamis described the cheating scam, caught on videotape at Caesars Palace in 1975, as "really a tragedy in my life which I created myself." He said he wasn't the scam organizer, and since that time has had no contact with several others involved in it.

"The cheaters, working with a dealer, managed to slip prearranged or "cooler" card decks onto a blackjack table at Caesars. Once the decks were in play, they had a good idea of what cards were being dealt next and were able to bet accordingly.

"Gaming Commission Chairman Bill Bernhard said regulators generally wouldn't relicense someone for such a serious offense, but in Stamis' case he had returned to Jerry's Nugget and worked for years in food and beverage operations with no problems."

[risky biz]

That's pretty funny. He hasn't done it for a long time so he's OK now.

I've heard gossip that Benny Binion would stake Archie and others in cheat
crews and send them to other casinos. Maybe this is exactly what they're
talking about but my policy is to consider gossip like that with mostly
doubt. It's human nature to fabricate stories.

Thanks for the info.

[risky biz]

On Sep 25 2013 1:45 AM, paulpopinjay wrote:

> On Tuesday, September 24, 2013 10:41:25 PM UTC-7, risky biz wrote:
>
> >
> > I've never been in there. Tell me the story. I haven't heard it.
>
>
>
> They were going to have "DOUBLE ROYALS" on weekends or Saturdays or
something. Well, in the vpfree
> database of games they had there it had not been updated and looked like a
wasteland, even though
> double royals is still good even on a lot of games that aren't so good. But
I knew Jerry's better
> than the internet did. I had been in there recently and recorded all of
their GREAT games. They
> had several. And it was not just for quarters, they had good games for
DOLLARS!
>
> I was in California when I heard of their announced promo. I said to
myself, "This is too good,
> they'll get hammered". I spoke to a couple friends over there, and
apparently others were already
> on this promo, ready to pounce. I heard they camped out in the parking lot
so as to grab the good
> machines when the promo started.
>
> The promo started, and the place was packed. Packed with ADVANTAGE

PLAYERS.. lol I don't know

That's pretty f'd up. They had a right to decline their play but pulling
someone over in front of a camera and forcing them to have a picture taken
when they did nothing illegal is horseshit.

How did that all fall out with Griffin Investigations, the company that
compiled the black books for the casinos on blackjack card counters? I
recall that they declared bankruptcy and I think it was because of
lawsuits against them by card counters.

[paulpo...@sbcglobal.net]

On Wednesday, September 25, 2013 10:31:47 PM UTC-7, risky biz wrote:

>
> That's pretty f'd up. They had a right to decline their play but pulling
>
> someone over in front of a camera and forcing them to have a picture taken
>
> when they did nothing illegal is horseshit.
>
>
>
> How did that all fall out with Griffin Investigations, the company that
>
> compiled the black books for the casinos on blackjack card counters? I
>
> recall that they declared bankruptcy and I think it was because of
>
> lawsuits against them by card counters.

James Grosjean got a judgement against Griffin. Do you know of Grosjean?

There is another agency similar to Griffin, and right now I can't think of the name, but I know it has something to do with "Oregon". Please let me know if you know the name, I'm just having a senior moment right now. Or I'll come back here and post the name if I ever remember.

Then, I don't know if I mentioned it or linked it, but Tom Robertson got a decision against Jerry's Nugget in North Las Vegas Municipal Court. I forget the details, but I think Stamis had told him to leave, and as he was leaving, Security grabbed him and cuffed him. I think. I may be off on that. Again, my memory ain't working very well right now. I'm having a bad day. I've been dizzy all day, light-headed. Not sure what the problem is.

[paulpo...@sbcglobal.net]

This case has since been finalized, I believe. But here's part of an article speaking of it.

------------



"Near the top of the pile is a video starring Angelo Stamis, owner of Jerry’s Nugget, who approaches a gambler, demands ID and tells the customer to leave. The video shows the gambler leaving, but not before swearing at Stamis, who then grabs the gambler, Thomas Robertson, by the arm while a guard handcuffs him. North Las Vegas police arrested Robertson for supposedly refusing to leave.

"North Las Vegas Municipal Court dropped the charges in November, saying Robertson had committed no crime and the casino had no right to evict him.

"Robertson’s lawsuit against the casino is pending. Jerry’s Nugget representatives couldn’t be reached for comment."

http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2011/jun/15/lawsuits-pile-alleged-casino-assaults-continue/

[paulpo...@sbcglobal.net]

On Thursday, September 26, 2013 1:52:44 AM UTC-7, paulpo...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

>
> There is another agency similar to Griffin, and right now I can't think of the name, but I know it has something to do with "Oregon". Please let me know if you know the name, I'm just having a senior moment right now. Or I'll come back here and post the name if I ever remember.
>

Here's the assholes right here. Apparently based on Indian Reservations so they can't get sued. This website is difficult to read unless you highlight the text.

I think this is a significant concern. I'd start a new thread about it but I don't think the idiots on RGP would care.


http://oregonsurveillancenetwork.com/Index%20Mission%20Statement.php


http://oregonsurveillancenetwork.com/

[paulpo...@sbcglobal.net]

On Thursday, September 26, 2013 2:23:42 AM UTC-7, paulpo...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

>
> http://oregonsurveillancenetwork.com/



Here's a post from vpfree. It's talking about the OSN and The Cosmopolitan.


"Last I heard, the inventor of "Oregon Surveillance Network" has a high position at the Cosmo. OSN is a company good at "game protection" who keeps track of knowledgeable and lucky players --- not always distinguishing between the two. OSN long ago replaced Griffin as the agency feared most by blackjack counters and other advantage players. Anyone hitting a couple of $10 royals or more there would likely come to the attention of OSN --- and that's not a good thing if you wish to continue playing. For this reason, I have yet to play a hand at the Cosmo --- even with the 2x cashback promos at the start when they had high limit NSU. Far too dangerous, even for someone like me who is already high profile. For someone who is a strong player but isn't high profile yet, you probably shouldn't even look at the building from the freeway."

[risky biz]

On Sep 26 2013 1:52 AM, paulpopinjay wrote:

> On Wednesday, September 25, 2013 10:31:47 PM UTC-7, risky biz wrote:
>
> >
> > That's pretty f'd up. They had a right to decline their play but pulling
> >
> > someone over in front of a camera and forcing them to have a picture taken
> >
> > when they did nothing illegal is horseshit.
> >
> >
> >
> > How did that all fall out with Griffin Investigations, the company that
> >
> > compiled the black books for the casinos on blackjack card counters? I
> >
> > recall that they declared bankruptcy and I think it was because of
> >
> > lawsuits against them by card counters.
>
>
> James Grosjean got a judgement against Griffin. Do you know of Grosjean?

No.

> There is another agency similar to Griffin, and right now I can't think of
the name, but I know it
> has something to do with "Oregon". Please let me know if you know the name,
I'm just having a
> senior moment right now. Or I'll come back here and post the name if I ever
remember.
>
> Then, I don't know if I mentioned it or linked it, but Tom Robertson got a
decision against Jerry's
> Nugget in North Las Vegas Municipal Court. I forget the details, but I
think Stamis had told him to
> leave, and as he was leaving, Security grabbed him and cuffed him. I think.
I may be off on that.

> Again, my memory ain't working very well right now. I'm having a bad day..

I've been dizzy all
> day, light-headed. Not sure what the problem is.

Thanks for the links. You've been keeping up on this kind of thing. I
haven't. Some of these quotes really show how in-bed the Gaming Control
Board is on this kind of thing.

�If a security guard who has had a bad day hauls off and hits someone,
it�s hard to hold the casino accountable,� Control Board Chairman Mark
Lipparelli said. [what's this guy smoking?]

Metro spokeswoman Laura Meltzer said police follow simple protocol when
dealing with any potential victim � take a report, pass the case on to an
investigator and rely on the victim to press charges and follow up with
detectives.

Critics cite a too-close relationship between police and casino security
for the lack of criminal charges against guards.

Police �seem to fail to do their own investigations...they kind of act as
an arm of casino security,� said Allen Lichtenstein, American Civil
Liberties Union Nevada counsel.

Del Marva said �they don�t want problems with the casinos, with which they
all have connections. The casinos are going to do what they�re going to do
without police interference.�

�Not once have I seen police or gaming (regulators) walk into a scene with
security and say, �Thanks for calling us, but you guys messed up,� �
Nersesian said. �It�s their responsibility to investigate unsuitable
practices but apparently it�s not an unsuitable practice to beat on
people.�

�We don�t want our licensees out there assaulting patrons,� said David
Salas, deputy chief of the Control Board�s enforcement division. �There�s
anecdotal evidence that it occurs. But I would refute that it�s a
widespread problem.�
http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2011/jun/15/lawsuits-pile-alleged-casino-assaults-continue/

[risky biz]

On Sep 26 2013 1:52 AM, paulpopinjay wrote:

I've tried to watch two different copies of this but neither would play
after the first 10 minutes. I just put a hold on it again and if it plays
I'll let you know if it's worth watching. It looks like it was published
by Stanford Wong.

Title Casino abuse of skilled players [videodisc]
Publication Info. [Las Vegas, NV] : Pi Yee Press, c2003.

Add a Review Add a Review

1 hold on first copy returned of 5 copies

Location Call No. Status
Centennial Hills Adult HV6711 .C375 2003 AVAILABLE
Las Vegas Adult HV6711 .C375 2003 AVAILABLE
Summerlin Adult HV6711 .C375 2003 AVAILABLE
Sunrise Adult HV6711 .C375 2003 AVAILABLE
West Las Vegas Adult HV6711 .C375 2003 AVAILABLE
Description 1 videodisc (ca. 80 min.) : sd., col. ; 4 3/4 in.
System Details DVD.
Note Title from container.
Summary "BJ21.com presents a video of a panel discussion regarding casino
abuse of skilled players which was recorded at a Green Chip party. The
video includes frightening footage obtained from casino surveillance
cameras of a law abiding, skilled player being handcuffed, forcibly
backroomed and detained by casino employees. This timely topic should be
of concern to all players."--Publisher's website.
Subject Gambling.
Gamblers.
Added Author Pi Yee Press.
Note At head of title: BJ21.com presents
ISBN $29.95

[chandler]

On Sep 25 2013 4:45 AM, paulpopinjay wrote:

> I was in California when I heard of their announced promo. I said to
myself, "This is too good,
> they'll get hammered". I spoke to a couple friends over there, and
apparently others were already
> on this promo, ready to pounce. I heard they camped out in the parking lot
so as to grab the good
> machines when the promo started.
>
> The promo started, and the place was packed. Packed with ADVANTAGE

PLAYERS.. lol

Nice story. I love seeing stuff like this. You can see exactly what is
happening, but most casino patrons don't have a clue. You ever seen video
of a baitball?

Chandler

[paulpo...@sbcglobal.net]

On Friday, September 27, 2013 6:10:10 AM UTC-7, chandler wrote:

> You ever seen video
>
> of a baitball?
>

Not until just now when I looked it up. Fascinating.

[paulpo...@sbcglobal.net]

I went to BJ21 and looked at some of this stuff. I wish some casino would abuse me like that. I'd like to get a fat judgement against some of those assholes.

[risky biz]

That sounds a little odd coming from a casino executive like you.

[chandler]

So, the casino is the bait ball... I've seen video where the bait ball
was just massive out in the open ocean... I was in Isla Mujeres a while
back and there were charters that would drop you in the water next to a
bait ball to swim with sailfish. Didn't sound that smart swimming near
sailfish in a feeding frenzy.

Chandler

[Observant Lurker]

> Again, my memory ain't working very well right now. I'm having a bad day..

I've been dizzy all
> day, light-headed. Not sure what the problem is.

A bad batch of undercooked meth will cause dizziness. So, will alcohol
taken with cocaine.
Better switch to chicken soup for a few days and dry out.

"COW..C-O-W eieio <buzz> "Dagnabbit"

[risky biz]

I got a copy that worked except for a short glitch at 26 minutes. They
didn't do a professional job producing it.

There was a panel discussion with an attorney, Robert Nersesian, who
represents players. He also said there was one other attorney in Las Vegas
who represented players- Cal Potter. But this was from ten years ago.

Bob Nersesian said that by Nevada law the casinos are cheating when they
have someone watching the play from the eye in the sky because that is a
"confederate" not in the game which is illegal. The players cards are
easily visible while they're playing.

The "frightening" footage wasn't that frightening. Three security guards
handcuffed the guy (the head psychiatrist at a hospital back East) and
marched him to a small security office. He didn't resist but they jerked
him around a little anyway. Halfway there the one in front turned around,
pushed his arm up against his chest, and said, "Don't fight us or you'll
get hurt." In the office they patted him down and riffled through his
pockets while he was still handcuffed. Then they started demanding
information like his social security number, where he was staying, who he
was with, etc. He refused to give them his SSN and they argued with him
about it claiming the law required him to show them his ID, which is
false. He refused to stand up against the wall and be photographed but
they got a photo anyway. One guy with the camera stood behind another one
and lined up the shot then the one in front ducked and he snapped the
photo. When he left the casino cameras followed him for 140 yards on the
street.

Apparently, in some cases they tell you that if you don't surrender your
winnings you'll go to jail. In one case the Las Vegas Metro police
actually asked the DA if they could do that to help out the casino after
the DA told them there was no probable cause for an arrest.

The important thing to do is demand in writing to the casino that they
preserve the tapes. Once you request it there are severe penalties for not
retaining them. If you don't request it in 30 days they're gone.

They said Mandalay Bay was one of the worst casinos for how they treat
players. The New Frontier, also, but that's gone now. However, Phil
Ruffin, who owned the New Frontier then, now owns Treasure Island.

[paulpo...@sbcglobal.net]

Nersesian is the nuts. I've got his book, "Beat The Player". Also, I would say he has been a guest at least three times on Gambling with an Edge, on KLAV1230 in Vegas, every Thursday at 7:00 p.m. You can find podcasts of his interviews at http://www.richardmunchkin.com

[paulpo...@sbcglobal.net]

On Monday, September 30, 2013 12:16:38 PM UTC-7, paulpo...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

>
> Nersesian is the nuts. I've got his book, "Beat The Player". Also, I would say he has been a guest at least three times on Gambling with an Edge, on KLAV1230 in Vegas, every Thursday at 7:00 p.m. You can find podcasts of his interviews at http://www.richardmunchkin.com

Here's his last podcast interview.
http://www.slot-machine-resource.com/podcasts/ners7.mp3

[paulpo...@sbcglobal.net]

On Monday, September 30, 2013 12:19:52 PM UTC-7, paulpo...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

>
> Here's his last podcast interview.
>
> http://www.slot-machine-resource.com/podcasts/ners7.mp3

Nothing happened when I clicked this link, I'm using Linux so maybe that's why, but I right-clicked it and "saved link as" which downloaded it.

[risky biz]

On Sep 30 2013 12:16 PM, paulpopinjay wrote:

> Nersesian is the nuts. I've got his book, "Beat The Player". Also, I
would say he has been a
> guest at least three times on Gambling with an Edge, on KLAV1230 in Vegas,
every Thursday at 7:00
> p.m. You can find podcasts of his interviews at
http://www.richardmunchkin.com

I'm going to look those up. Thanks.

[risky biz]

I just listened to that. That's some good info. I bookmaked the radio
station and I'm going to start listening to that program.