Large POKER bust in Dallas!

1 view
Skip to first unread message

Neal the REAL DEAL!

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 10:34:08 AM11/22/06
to
http://cbs11tv.com/topstories/local_story_324171616.html

Give this state back to MEXICO, the whole state is a cancer on our
great country!

http://cbs11tv.com/topstories/local_story_324171616.html


Dallas Vice & SWAT Raid Illegal Poker Games
20 Arrests Made, 79 Citations Issued, $43,000 Seized

J.D. Miles
Reporting

(CBS 11 News) DALLAS Over the past weekend, Dallas Vice and SWAT
officers were involved in one of the largest illegal gambling raids in
North Texas. Three simultaneous raids are an indication of how popular
illegal poker games are in Dallas, and how determined officers are to
stop them.

Some see the games as "friendly," but police call it promotion of
gambling, and conducted the weekend raids to flush out a growing
underground industry.

To many the arrested poker players didn't look like criminals, but in a
game where the house gets a percentage, they were committing a crime.

"It's not regulated, so the people that are running these poker houses
charge a lot of money," said Lt. Christina Smith with the Dallas
Police. "There's no way to check to see if what they are doing is
proper."

Police had hidden camera video and floor plans for each location before
the raids were executed.

A total of 100 players were dealt unlucky hands when authorities
crashed the parties. Windows were broken at a northwest Dallas office
complex. That raid, along with one on Forrest Lane and another on Swiss
Avenue resulted in 20 arrests of operators and dealers, 79 citations
for players and $43,000 in cash seized.

Most of the players caught on Friday night wanted nothing to do with
the media, but those who did speak say that they got a raw deal. Player
Michael McCoy said, "You got billions of dollars going through online
all across the U.S. This is a family game. That's about it."

Cash and poker tables were removed and officers chased down those who
tried to run. One policeman told CBS 11 News, "All of the players you
see behind me will get citations, but the operators face more serious
charges."

(© MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)

lawh...@hiwaay.net

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 11:39:10 AM11/22/06
to
The television news report is not clear on this, so I will ask the
question directly: Were these "operators" charging a rake off of each
pot (if it was limit poker) or an entry fee that went into the
operator's pocket if it was no-limit tournament poker? If that is the
case, then they were operating as an "unregulated" (and unlicensed)
casino and have no one but themselves to blame for the bust. (If they
were raking the players, then they were asking for trouble.)

As for the players, I'm not a lawyer but I think a "citation" is
roughly equivalent to a speeding ticket or a moving violation, so the
players get the legal equivalent of a slap on the wrist. I play in a
lot of "bar tournaments" here in my home town, but the establishments
where I play are very careful NOT to charge a rake or an entry fee, so
they don't "profit" (directly) from the poker. Of course, we tend to
buy a lot of food and drink, so they do make some money that way, but
they don't make money off the poker per se. (If the bars where I play
started charging an entry fee, I would quit playing there immediately.
So far, that is not a problem.)

Alan C. Lawhon
Huntsville, Alabama

Irish Mike

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 11:40:52 AM11/22/06
to
It's good to know the police in Texas are able to rise above petty
distractions like murder, rape, armed robbery, assault, drug dealing, child
pornography, missing persons, burglary, vandalism, domestic violence and
tens of thousands of illegal aliens and focus on the really serious
problem - poker games.

Irish Mike

"Neal the REAL DEAL!" <daytr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1164209648.6...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

WuzYoungOnceToo2

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 11:56:44 AM11/22/06
to
On Nov 22, 10:39 am, "lawho...@HiWAAY.net" <lawho...@HiWAAY.net>
wrote:

>
> The television news report is not clear on this, so I will ask the
> question directly: Were these "operators" charging a rake off of each
> pot (if it was limit poker) or an entry fee that went into the
> operator's pocket if it was no-limit tournament poker? If that is the
> case, then they were operating as an "unregulated" (and unlicensed)
> casino and have no one but themselves to blame for the bust. (If they
> were raking the players, then they were asking for trouble.)

It doesn't matter which they were doing. In TX a poker game is illegal
if anyone profits materially from it in any way other than through
winnings obtained by playing. That means the house charging for
anything in connection with the game, including rake, entry fees,
food/beverage sales, etc. It also means dealers/waitresses/etc. being
compensated in any way. There's a shitload of games like these in the
D/FW Metroplex.

I would also point out that the Dallas PD does not represent the state
of Texas.

Kinnipak

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 12:35:08 PM11/22/06
to
On Nov 22 2006 10:40 AM, Irish Mike wrote:

> It's good to know the police in Texas are able to rise above petty
> distractions like murder, rape, armed robbery, assault, drug dealing, child
> pornography, missing persons, burglary, vandalism, domestic violence and
> tens of thousands of illegal aliens and focus on the really serious
> problem - poker games.
>
> Irish Mike

Christ Mike, Don't you know ANYTHING?

Poker Games CAUSE murder, rape, armed robbery, assault, drug dealing,


child
pornography, missing persons, burglary, vandalism, domestic violence and

tens of thousands of illegal aliens.

I thought you were smarter than that.

------ 
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com


da pickle

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 12:51:24 PM11/22/06
to
"Kinnipak"

> Poker Games CAUSE murder, rape, armed robbery,
> assault, drug dealing, child pornography, missing persons,
> burglary, vandalism, domestic violence and
> tens of thousands of illegal aliens.

And housemaid's knee and warts on one index finger.


WuzYoungOnceToo2

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 12:58:29 PM11/22/06
to
On Nov 22, 11:35 am, "Kinnipak" <a83e...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>
> Christ Mike, Don't you know ANYTHING?
>
> Poker Games CAUSE murder, rape, armed robbery, assault, drug dealing,
> child
> pornography, missing persons, burglary, vandalism, domestic violence and
> tens of thousands of illegal aliens.
>
> I thought you were smarter than that.

To be fair, I'm sure poker games have contributed their fair share to
the domestic violence problem. It's just that the abuse tends to be
directed in the opposite direction.

Wife: "You lost HOW MUCH tonight?!!"

The beating generally commences shortly thereafter.

Kinnipak

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 1:05:50 PM11/22/06
to


but who is beating who?

-------- 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com


WuzYoungOnceToo2

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 1:09:50 PM11/22/06
to
On Nov 22, 12:05 pm, "Kinnipak" <a83e...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>
> but who is beating who?

I thought "It's just that the abuse tends to be directed in the
opposite direction" was an obvious clue.

Gary Carson

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 1:27:29 PM11/22/06
to
People attempted to run from a Dallas Swat team and aren't dead?

Wow.  Lucky mother fuckers.


On Nov 22 2006 9:34 AM, Neal the REAL DEAL! wrote:

> http://cbs11tv.com/topstories/local_story_324171616.html
>
> Give this state back to MEXICO, the whole state is a cancer on our
> great country!
>
>
>
> http://cbs11tv.com/topstories/local_story_324171616.html
>
>
> Dallas Vice & SWAT Raid Illegal Poker Games
> 20 Arrests Made, 79 Citations Issued, $43,000 Seized
>

> J=2ED. Miles

> (=A9 MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com

_______________________________________________________________
* New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com

Gary Carson

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 1:29:07 PM11/22/06
to
And poker is used by terroists to launder money.

Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com

_______________________________________________________________
New Feature: Mark All As Read! - http://www.recpoker.com

WuzYoungOnceToo2

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 1:35:44 PM11/22/06
to
On Nov 22, 12:27 pm, Gary Carson <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.edu>
wrote:

>
> People attempted to run from a Dallas Swat team and aren't dead?
>
> Wow. Lucky mother fuckers.

Even given that the members of the SWAT team are usually the ones being
shot at?

David Nicoson

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 1:42:39 PM11/22/06
to
Neal the REAL DEAL! wrote:
> "It's not regulated, so the people that are running these poker houses
> charge a lot of money," said Lt. Christina Smith with the Dallas
> Police. "There's no way to check to see if what they are doing is
> proper."

If I read it correctly, she's trying to spin the raid as a way to
protect players from crooked games . . . by confiscating all the money.

deadlysyns

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 2:55:12 PM11/22/06
to
for more info on the raids

http://pokerati.com/

On Nov 22 2006 9:34 AM, Neal the REAL DEAL! wrote:

> http://cbs11tv.com/topstories/local_story_324171616.html
>
> Give this state back to MEXICO, the whole state is a cancer on our
> great country!
>
>
>
> http://cbs11tv.com/topstories/local_story_324171616.html
>
>
> Dallas Vice & SWAT Raid Illegal Poker Games
> 20 Arrests Made, 79 Citations Issued, $43,000 Seized
>

> J=2ED. Miles

> (=A9 MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)

_______________________________________________________________
Watch Lists, Block Lists, Favorites - http://www.recpoker.com

Follow

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 5:17:35 PM11/22/06
to


On Nov 22 2006 9:40 AM, Irish Mike wrote:

> It's good to know the police in Texas are able to rise above petty
> distractions like murder, rape, armed robbery, assault, drug dealing, child
> pornography, missing persons, burglary, vandalism, domestic violence and
> tens of thousands of illegal aliens and focus on the really serious
> problem - poker games.
>
> Irish Mike

Dude, arresting criminals is dangerous work and generally thankless.  What
better way to get fame and more importantly re-election than to harrass poker
potzers who have almost no probability of harming your officers?  DUH!  :P


Follow  :)

Bill Starr

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 7:05:50 PM11/22/06
to


I have played in many Dallas poker games and have been robbed once and busted by
the police once. I must say that the police bust was damn near as scary as the
robbery. There we were a bunch of mostly old retirees and they busted the door
in and came in with their ninja masks and pistols leveled at us. A pistol was
about a foot from my face. We were all scared shitless. As usual they were
arrogant and demanding.  In the end we got a ticket and the host of the game got
a lawyer and everything was dismissed.  The Texas legislature and govenor are
sitting on their hands while all of us go to Okla, Louisana,New Mexico to gamble
legally.But of course we have the lottery,dog racing and horse racing and
believe me they all have lobbyist to defeat any bill authorizing casinos. Gary
Carson you need to come to our rescus and make them see the light.

Bi;;


_______________________________________________________________
The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com

Gary Carson

unread,
Nov 22, 2006, 8:27:42 PM11/22/06
to
My roots in Texas go back a long time, but I think you have to be crazy to live
there.

Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com

_______________________________________________________________
Block Lists, Favorites, and more - http://www.recpoker.com

Palooka

unread,
Nov 23, 2006, 6:00:00 AM11/23/06
to
Initially I assumed this was about Pamela Anderson, but then I remembered
(as another poster mentioned) that her site has already gone tits up.

Palooka


hdjones

unread,
Nov 27, 2006, 10:32:42 AM11/27/06
to
On Nov 22 2006 10:40 AM, Irish Mike wrote:

> It's good to know the police in Texas are able to rise above petty
> distractions like murder, rape, armed robbery, assault, drug dealing, child
> pornography, missing persons, burglary, vandalism, domestic violence and
> tens of thousands of illegal aliens and focus on the really serious
> problem - poker games.


Poker players don't shoot back, so, like all bullies and cowards Dallas Swat
loves this action.


Fortiter ille facit, qui miser esse potest

hdjones

unread,
Nov 27, 2006, 10:43:23 AM11/27/06
to
On Nov 22 2006 10:56 AM, WuzYoungOnceToo2 wrote:

> On Nov 22, 10:39 am, "lawho...@HiWAAY.net"

> wrote:
> >
> > The television news report is not clear on this, so I will ask the
> > question directly: Were these "operators" charging a rake off of each
> > pot (if it was limit poker) or an entry fee that went into the
> > operator's pocket if it was no-limit tournament poker? If that is the
> > case, then they were operating as an "unregulated" (and unlicensed)
> > casino and have no one but themselves to blame for the bust. (If they
> > were raking the players, then they were asking for trouble.)
>
> It doesn't matter which they were doing. In TX a poker game is illegal
> if anyone profits materially from it in any way other than through
> winnings obtained by playing. That means the house charging for
> anything in connection with the game, including rake, entry fees,
> food/beverage sales, etc. It also means dealers/waitresses/etc. being
> compensated in any way. There's a shitload of games like these in the
> D/FW Metroplex.

I think you are right on the law, as far as it goes.  Unfortunately, though, the
law (despite attorney general rulings on what it means) is fairly inprecise and
no one in state government wants this to go to trial.  I suspect the site will
get its money back as part of a plea bargain to keep it out of court, but, who
knows?

This was, I believe, a general attempt by Republicans in the district attorney's
office to keep their jobs, unfortunately for them, though, it didn't work and
the Republicans are out in Dallas county.  Maybe now, if the raids continue,
they'll raid the American Legion which has the longest running, best publicized,
illegal game in Dallas.

Fortiter ille facit, qui miser esse potest


_______________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com

WuzYoungOnceToo

unread,
Nov 27, 2006, 11:09:03 AM11/27/06
to
On Nov 27, 9:32 am, hdjones <horndogjo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Poker players don't shoot back, so, like all bullies and cowards Dallas Swat
> loves this action.

Are you under the impression that SWAT determines Dallas PD policy, as
well as how/where they are used?

WuzYoungOnceToo

unread,
Nov 27, 2006, 11:11:53 AM11/27/06
to
On Nov 27, 9:43 am, hdjones <horndogjo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think you are right on the law, as far as it goes. Unfortunately, though, the
> law (despite attorney general rulings on what it means) is fairly inprecise

How so? The law on this matter reads pretty clearly.

> and no one in state government wants this to go to trial.

Says who?

> I suspect the site will get its money back as part of a plea bargain to keep it out of court, but, who
> knows?

There have been quite a few poker game busts in Dallas, so it's not
like this is uncharted waters.

> This was, I believe...

So far you comments have been heavy on belief, but sorely lacking in
knowledge and facts.

hdjones

unread,
Nov 27, 2006, 11:16:48 AM11/27/06
to
On Nov 27 2006 10:09 AM, WuzYoungOnceToo wrote:

> On Nov 27, 9:32 am, hdjones wrote:
> >
> > Poker players don't shoot back, so, like all bullies and cowards Dallas Swat
> > loves this action.

> Are you under the impression that SWAT determines Dallas PD policy, as
> well as how/where they are used?

As has been shown numerous times, without goons to do their dirty work, despots
wouldn't succeed.  I was just following orders is, in my opinion, not an
excuse...


Fortiter ille facit, qui miser esse potest


_______________________________________________________________

WuzYoungOnceToo

unread,
Nov 27, 2006, 11:19:25 AM11/27/06
to
On Nov 27, 10:16 am, hdjones <horndogjo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> As has been shown numerous times, without goons to do their dirty work, despots
> wouldn't succeed. I was just following orders is, in my opinion, not an
> excuse...

It's a little early in the day for such moronic invocations of Godwin's
law, isn't it?

hdjones

unread,
Nov 27, 2006, 11:31:09 AM11/27/06
to
On Nov 27 2006 10:11 AM, WuzYoungOnceToo wrote:

> On Nov 27, 9:43 am, hdjones wrote:
> >
> > I think you are right on the law, as far as it goes. Unfortunately, though,
> > the
> > law (despite attorney general rulings on what it means) is fairly inprecise
>
> How so? The law on this matter reads pretty clearly.

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/Texas/

is the general law, anyone who wants can decide how clear it is.

most of the reasoning behind raids, etc. has nothing to do with how the law is
written, rather it has to do with the Texas attorney general gi ing opinons on
what the law passed by the legislature means.  Most of the poker law has not, if
my source is correct, been ruled on by the courts for the reason I stated...


> > I suspect the site will get its money back as part of a plea bargain to keep
> > it out of court, but, who
> > knows?
>
> There have been quite a few poker game busts in Dallas, so it's not
> like this is uncharted waters.

Actually, in the latest round, there have been four busts, out of several dozen
rooms.  The rooms which got busted were fairly marginal operations, though, to
be fair, several rooms volunatrily closed down after the first bust.  The first
room busted, this past summer, Aces, is still up in the air, and, if the fellow
who owned it isn't lying to me, what is happening is pretty much what I said is
happening.

For someone who doesn't know anything about a situation, you try to sound pretty
authoritative, though your observations are, if I may use your phrase, moronic
and uninformed.

Where do bozos like you go at night?

hdjones

unread,
Nov 27, 2006, 11:33:39 AM11/27/06
to
On Nov 27 2006 10:19 AM, WuzYoungOnceToo wrote:

> On Nov 27, 10:16 am, hdjones wrote:
> >
> > As has been shown numerous times, without goons to do their dirty work,
> > despots
> > wouldn't succeed. I was just following orders is, in my opinion, not an
> > excuse...
>
> It's a little early in the day for such moronic invocations of Godwin's
> law, isn't it?

Probablyt not.  It is generally useful to point out to the ones among us with
the most slavish mentalities that Americans were born free, and make moral
choices.

These fellows just chose to be what they are.


Fortiter ille facit, qui miser esse potest


_______________________________________________________________
Your Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com

WuzYoungOnceToo

unread,
Nov 27, 2006, 11:57:36 AM11/27/06
to
On Nov 27, 10:31 am, hdjones <horndogjo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/Texas/
>
> is the general law, anyone who wants can decide how clear it is.

Luckily for me I can read, and easily point out the portion of the
statute that is most salient:

"§ 47.02. Gambling

(a) A person commits an offense if he:

(1) makes a bet on the partial or final result of a game or contest or
on the performance of a participant in a game or contest;

(2) makes a bet on the result of any political nomination, appointment,
or election or on the degree of success of any nominee, appointee, or
candidate; or

(3) plays and bets for money or other thing of value at any game played
with cards, dice, balls, or any other gambling device.

(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) the actor engaged in gambling in a private place;

(2) no person received any economic benefit other than personal
winnings; and

(3) except for the advantage of skill or luck, the risks of losing and
the chances of winning were the same for all participants."

Note that a.3 and b.2 (as well as b.1 in many cases) are incredibly
clear in their application to the games in question. What part of the
statute do you find unclear?


> Actually, in the latest round, there have been four busts, out of several dozen
> rooms. The rooms which got busted were fairly marginal operations, though, to
> be fair, several rooms volunatrily closed down after the first bust. The first
> room busted, this past summer, Aces, is still up in the air, and, if the fellow
> who owned it isn't lying to me

I know I'm always inclined to take the word of a guy who was engaged in
running an operation he knew to be illegal.

> For someone who doesn't know anything about a situation, you try to sound pretty
> authoritative, though your observations are, if I may use your phrase, moronic
> and uninformed.

This from the schmuck who's painting SWAT teams as "bullies and
cowards" because the PD that commands them uses them to raid poker
games.

> Where do bozos like you go at night?

Home to our families, usually.

WuzYoungOnceToo

unread,
Nov 27, 2006, 12:03:55 PM11/27/06
to
On Nov 27, 10:33 am, hdjones <horndogjo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Probablyt not. It is generally useful to point out to the ones among us with
> the most slavish mentalities that Americans were born free, and make moral
> choices.

And you think the members of Dallas SWAT following legal, proper orders
to play their part in shutting down an illegal enterprise was an
immoral decision?

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages