Being invited over to a non-vegetarian's house for dinner
Deb Britt
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4ru5jl$q...@news.csus.edu>,
an...@apollo.sfsu.edu (Angelique Skiman) wrote:
>
> Hello everyone. I was wondering what you all think of this. My
> boyfriend and I, both vegetarians, were invited over for dinner at an old
> friend's house. This is someone I was once quite close to but now only see
> periodically. Anyway, as long as I have known her (about 8 years), I have
> been a vegetarian. When she served the meal, it was chicken! My boyfriend,
> being the polite soul he is, ate it and later told me he felt awkward
> refusing it. I, however, ate everything else except the chicken. She asked
> me if I didn't like it, and I said "Well, I am a vegetarian". She said
> "You are still doing that?".
> My boyfriend and I agreed that it was really rude of her to make
> chicken without asking either of us, esp. since I never eaten any meat for
> all of the years I have known her. I know that the meal is not the most
> important thing when one goes to a friends house to eat. It is the company
> that matters. However, I find it hard to believe that she just "forgot" I
> didn't eat meat. We have had many arguments over the years about meat-eating
> versus non-meat eating, etc. However, I can't imagine someone
> deliberately doing something like that just to make others
> uncomfortable. What do you all think? Had this kind of thing ever happened to
> any of you? Did I handle it properly?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Angelique M. SKiman
> an...@sfsu.edu
>
I think you handled your end of it quite properly, but your "friend" was
insufferably rude! If you have been a veg as long as you have known her,
there was no reason for her to assume you had changed, so I wonder what her
motive was in serving you meat. Since you have had arguments about meat
eating in the past, perhaps the best way to continue your friendship is to
avoid dinner engagements (unless they are potluck) and opt for other
activities instead.
--
Deb Britt
Janet
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4ru5jl$q...@news.csus.edu> an...@apollo.sfsu.edu (Angelique Skiman) writes:
Hello everyone. I was wondering what you all think of this. My
boyfriend and I, both vegetarians, were invited over for dinner at an old
friend's house. This is someone I was once quite close to but now only see
periodically. Anyway, as long as I have known her (about 8 years), I have
been a vegetarian. When she served the meal, it was chicken! My boyfriend,
being the polite soul he is, ate it and later told me he felt awkward
refusing it. I, however, ate everything else except the chicken. She asked
me if I didn't like it, and I said "Well, I am a vegetarian". She said
"You are still doing that?".
My boyfriend and I agreed that it was really rude of her to make
chicken without asking either of us, esp. since I never eaten any meat for
all of the years I have known her. I know that the meal is not the most
important thing when one goes to a friends house to eat. It is the company
that matters. However, I find it hard to believe that she just "forgot" I
didn't eat meat. We have had many arguments over the years about meat-eating
versus non-meat eating, etc. However, I can't imagine someone
deliberately doing something like that just to make others
uncomfortable. What do you all think? Had this kind of thing ever happened to
any of you? Did I handle it properly?
Thanks in advance
Angelique M. SKiman
an...@sfsu.edu
I've had this problem from the other perspective because I've either
forgotten or not been told that my guests had certain dietary
restrictions. The thing is, when you're not vegetarian you just
don't *think* about whether someone is or not. There's one fellow
here who I've eaten with several times, and discussed vegetarianism
with him, and the other day I asked him if he'd ever tried a certain
pork dish-- And when he reminded me that he was vegetarian, I
thought, "Oh, of course!" but hanging that label off of him and
letting the thought percolate all the way down to details like
whether he eats eggs or gelatin is a different matter somehow.
And there was a couple that I'd eaten vegetarian pizza with who
eventually came over for dinner, and I served them chicken. But
I *always* get vegetarian pizza, so I didn't catch on to the fact
that they were vegetarians. It's possible that they mentioned it
during the evening, but at the time I wasn't working on a menu
for when I invited them over, so I just didn't think about it.
If this friend of yours served you meat knowing you're a vegetarian,
that was quite rude. Do you really think she invited you over
to insult you or force you to eat meat, though? That seems rather
extreme, unless she has some secret hatred for you.
Is it possible that this situation is more like what it was for me
when I served my friends chicken? I was embarassed. I felt like
I'd failed as a hostess, when I'd been trying to please them by
serving a dish I knew I could make well. I also knew that if I
seemed too miserable about it it would just (further) ruin the
evening, so I apologized and tried to let the matter go. They
were nice about it and ate a lot of zucchini. And I will never
ask people over again without asking about their dietary
restrictions. --Is it possible that your friend honestly forgot,
and made chicken because she was in her automatic hostess-mode
(which, if it's anything like my hostess-mode, involves chicken),
and then said, stupidly, "You're still doing that?", because she
was too embarassed to know how to deal with this embarrassing
situation?
I think the only solution to this sort of problem is for
guests with dietary restrictions to always remind their
potential host, "You remember that I'm vegetarian, right?" and
for hosts to always ask if there are any dietary restrictions.
And when you get into a situation like this, either eat the
stupid chicken or quietly not eat it.
I hope it turns out that she's just a forgetful and repentant hostess
like me.
Carmela Epright
Angelique,
I think that it is quite possible that your friend just forgot
that you are a vegetarian, as a previous post noted, when one is not a
vegetarian one might not think about it-- admittedly this is rather odd
from an old friend, but you did say that you only see this person
periodically now, it's not as though she is reminded of your dietary
restrictions on a regular basis.
I try to avoid starving when invited over to friends houses by
*always* saying "Kurt (my significant other) and I are vegetarian, can I
bring a vegetarian dish to share?" I say this even to my closest
friends, unless I know that they are also vegetarian. This serves
several purposes, it reminds my friends, because it must be very
difficult to remember everyone's dietary restrictions; it also prevents
people from serving dishes like soups, etc. which "only have a little
meat in it" or have a chicken stock, etc. (If one is not veggie, or are
veggie for health reasons, such things seem irrelevant, although to me
having "only a little meat is like saying "it's only a little dead.");
this strategy also lets the host off the hookif they don't know how to cook
a vegetarian meal (lots of people don't, or feel as though they cannot, cook
without meat). Finally, prevents us from having to get through the evening
having only eatten the side dishes and/or the salad (Kurt really has to eat,
otherwise he begins to look as though he will perish).
Generally speaking, my friends tell me that bringing a dish is
unnecessary,and they whip up a veggie alternative, but I have made many
a meal for friends who invited me to their homes. This gives me the
opportunity to introduce them to veggie food, and they are always pleasantly
surprised by how good it is (yes, I am interested in converting the world!!).
Just wanted to share my experience.
--Carmela
Cynthia S. Smith
Next time you are invited to dinner, remind the host that you are a
vegetarian, even though that person already knows. I do that, it's
usually never a problem.
--Cynthia S. Smith
http://www.sn.no/~csmith
Shanna Phillips
> Deb Britt wrote:
> I think you handled your end of it quite properly, but your "friend" was
> insufferably rude! If you have been a veg as long as you have known her,
> <snip>
I heartily disagree! She made a stupid mistake. Give her the benefit
of the doubt.
>
> In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4ru5jl$q...@news.csus.edu>,
> an...@apollo.sfsu.edu (Angelique Skiman) wrote:
>
> <snip>
And I very much doubt that she was:
> > deliberately doing something like that just to make others
> > uncomfortable.
She screwed up! Invite her over to a GREAT veggie feed!!
cherish your friends,
shanna
plo...@pipeline.com
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4ru5jl$q...@news.csus.edu>, Angelique Skiman
writes:
(snip)
She said
>"You are still doing that?"
when she brought me a bottle of wine for my birthday -- I'm a recovering
alcoholic!
I just ran into this problem on the fourth of July. My fiance's mother is
a "pretend vegetarian" -- she calls herself a vegetarian but eats chicken
and fish "once in a while, but just on special occasions." Unfortunately
for me, she considers our visits a special occasion and never remembers I'm
a vegetarian (and a non-negotiable one, at that). I'm a little shy, and my
fiance is a little flaky, so it always ends up that I'm sending him
panicked eye signals across the table as she puts meat (or worse, meat
sauces on everything) on my plate, and he has no clue what I'm doing.
I have no qualms about giving him the meat from my plate; when she sees the
transaction she remembers the deal. I eat what I can and hope for a lot of
dessert. I would NEVER eat meat to avoid huring someone's feelings and one
of my pet peeves is when people say "there's just a little meat in it." I
hate that!
>
>
Tupelo
ASGTP #104
Resident Elvis Archivist and
Peanut-Butter Sandwich Fryer
*****
I met Darrell at a club where I danced on a platform in a fringed outfit,
wearing a cowboy hat and waving toy pistols. He bought me a drink. I told
him I was going to quit dancing because my torso ached. "Your torso should
be in the Louvre," he said, "which is a museum."
-- Debra Monroe, "The Source of Trouble"
Carol Gabele
Angelique,
I've seen this before. I can't tell you what's going on in your friend's
head, but certainly you were right to stick by your principles. It can be
extremely awkward, but I think if the person gets angry with you it let's
you know that your feelings are not very important to them. You can weigh
the strength of the friendship on that, and decide how important it is to
you to maintain the friendship.
Note, this does *not* apply necessarily to parents. They have a much more
complicated relationship with you. It's probably not possible to avoid
confrontations with them, if vegetarianism is an issue. You can only stick
to your principles and be determinedly unflappable ( ie, don't lose your
temper!).
Carol.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carol I. Gabele | Phone: (512) 838-6183 T/L 678-6183
Physical Design Methodology | Microelectronics Division
International Business Machines | I do not speak for my employer.
Faith Senie
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4ru5jl$q...@news.csus.edu>,
Angelique Skiman <an...@apollo.sfsu.edu> wrote:
)
) Hello everyone. I was wondering what you all think of this. My
)boyfriend and I, both vegetarians, were invited over for dinner at an old
)friend's house. This is someone I was once quite close to but now only see
)periodically. Anyway, as long as I have known her (about 8 years), I have
)been a vegetarian. When she served the meal, it was chicken! My boyfriend,
)being the polite soul he is, ate it and later told me he felt awkward
)refusing it. I, however, ate everything else except the chicken. She asked
)me if I didn't like it, and I said "Well, I am a vegetarian". She said
)"You are still doing that?".
Bummer! Personally, if we are invited to a friend's house for dinner,
I generally let them know at the time of the invitation that we're
vegetarian with dietary limitations, just so they are forewarned. Even
friends that might possibly know get the advance warning, just in case
they didn't remember (after all, I assume they also have other friends,
and may have gotten us confused with someone else... :) That way we
get no nasty surprises like chicken or fish or whatever. I also generally
offer to bring something along for dinner... (that way, if they do oops
and serve meat, we still have something to eat!)
With relatives, it's a bit different -- we usually just show up with
a bunch of food and do some of our own cooking. Or we go hungry,
make 'em feel guilty so that next time they might possibly have
something around that we could eat... :) (but only with relatives!
the guilt trips are a lot easier with relatives... :)
Faith
fa...@senie.com
http://www.senie.com/faith/
Lisa Hixson
>> Hello everyone. I was wondering what you all think of this. My
old
see
have
boyfriend,
>> refusing it. I, however, ate everything else except the chicken. She
asked
>> me if I didn't like it, and I said "Well, I am a vegetarian". She said
>> "You are still doing that?".
I admit she sounds pretty clueless. The fact that you two have argued
over eating meat in the past makes it hard for me to believe she didn't
remember.
When I was growing up, everyone in my family knew I was the "weird eater"
but I never expected special dishes when I ate over someone else's house,
I just ate what I liked and left the rest. My fiancee worries about this
alot more than I do. Whenever we go anywhere to eat, he makes sure they
know I'm a vegetarian (which is certainly considerate), but I know I
could make do if they didn't know. It was a bit harder when we went to
his grandmother's house for Thanksgiving last year. He told her I don't
eat meat and I was making do, trying to find something edible (it was
hard -- foodwise, that was the worst Thanksgiving), but she kept telling
me how her family was Cajun and that their meals were always built around
meat. Other than that it wasn't too big a deal. :)
Lisa
PRINCESSPK
IMO, even if I were dead certain that my friend acted out of malice
rather then forgetfulness, I would still feel it my responsibility, as her
guest, to make as little of it as possible. Her "dropping the ball" as a
hostess, while regretable, does not justify my behaviour as anything other
than a gracious and grateful guest. I would not eat the meat course, as a
vegetarian, just as, if I were an orthodox Jew, I would not be obligated
to eat pork or shellfish, due to my host's negligence. The essential
consideration of every guest is to seem just the soul of receptive and
amenable charm. I, also, would regret all future invitations to dine,
from this particular individual, in the most tactful manner possible.
Pink wishes
The Princess<channeling the spirit of Emily Post, at this very moment>
Danila Oder
On Tue, 9 Jul 1996, Angelique Skiman wrote:
>
> Hello everyone. I was wondering what you all think of this. My
> boyfriend and I, both vegetarians, were invited over for dinner at an old
> friend's house. This is someone I was once quite close to but now only see
> periodically. Anyway, as long as I have known her (about 8 years), I have
> been a vegetarian. When she served the meal, it was chicken! My boyfriend,
> being the polite soul he is, ate it and later told me he felt awkward
> refusing it. I, however, ate everything else except the chicken. She asked
> me if I didn't like it, and I said "Well, I am a vegetarian". She said
> "You are still doing that?".
> My boyfriend and I agreed that it was really rude of her to make
> chicken without asking either of us, esp. since I never eaten any meat for
> all of the years I have known her. I know that the meal is not the most
> important thing when one goes to a friends house to eat. It is the company
> that matters. However, I find it hard to believe that she just "forgot" I
> didn't eat meat. We have had many arguments over the years about meat-eating
> versus non-meat eating, etc. However, I can't imagine someone
> deliberately doing something like that just to make others
> uncomfortable. What do you all think? Had this kind of thing ever happened to
> any of you? Did I handle it properly?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Angelique M. SKiman
> an...@sfsu.edu
>
Dear Angelique:
This sounds like the sort of question that Miss Manners loves, and
I feel I've read her enough that I can 'channel' an answer.
Your friend was undeniably rude in not attempting to accommodate you.
She could have called you or another vegetarian to ask what your
preferences were. If you had an allergy (say, to peanuts, which can be
fatal) she would most likely have tried to accommodate it. Still,
when faced with a plate of chicken, should you compromise your moral
beliefs to please someone who has clearly not taken your beliefs
seriously?
I would have refused the chicken politely and complimented the other
dishes, and tried to turn the conversation away from dietary preferences.
If your hostess became annoyed because you didn't eat the chicken, that's
her problem. You're not obligated to eat _anything_ that's put in front
of you. As Miss Manners says, the proper sequence of responses is
something like:
"Are you going to eat the chicken?"
"No thank you, I'd rather not"
"Why, is there something wrong with it"
"Thank you, I prefer not to."
"I made it especially for you."
"Thank you, I appreciate your lovely dinner. The rice is delicious."
"So are you going to eat the chicken?"
"Thank you, I prefer not to."
No explanation is needed. Your friend would probably be furious at you,
but you would have preserved your dignity and made an attempt to move
the conversation to another topic. Disagreements occur, and we should
respect other people's views without foaming at the mouth because they
disagree with us.
Best,
Danila
Don Pobiak
cep...@orion.it.luc.edu (Carmela Epright) wrote:
>Angelique,
> I think that it is quite possible that your friend just forgot
>that you are a vegetarian, as a previous post noted, when one is not a
>vegetarian one might not think about it-- admittedly this is rather odd
snip snip
> Generally speaking, my friends tell me that bringing a dish is
>unnecessary,and they whip up a veggie alternative, but I have made many
>a meal for friends who invited me to their homes. This gives me the
>opportunity to introduce them to veggie food, and they are always pleasantly
>surprised by how good it is (yes, I am interested in converting the world!!).
> Just wanted to share my experience.
>--Carmela
So it is ok for you to try and convert the world but not for those
"horrible" meat eaters to convert you??
Just curious 'bout the possible double standard here... I mean why
wouldn't you prepare a meat based dish for your non-vegan friends when
they come over to your house?
Su McCurdy
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4ru5jl$q...@news.csus.edu>,
an...@apollo.sfsu.edu says...
>
>
> Hello everyone. I was wondering what you all think of this.
She may have just not been thinking, it probably wasn't intentional. I
did something similar to my nephew last year. He came all the way from
New York to Iowa for my daughter's wedding. I knew he was vegan and my
other daughter is vegetarian. He couldn't eat a thing at the
wedding--not even the punch which had jello in it. I just had so many
things on my mind that I didn't stop to think about it--your friend
might have done the same thing. I really didn't realize how
insensitive I had been until I became a vegetarian myself this spring.
>
Dorothea M. Rovner
> So it is ok for you to try and convert the world but not for those
> "horrible" meat eaters to convert you??
I'm confused. How are we "trying to convert the world" by merely not
eating meat? Is a Jew who refuses to eat pork trying to convert the world?
How about someone who refuses to drink alcohol, for whatever reason? (I
fall into this category, too, and it has caused far more social trouble
for me than has my vegetarianism.)
If a meat eater wishes to discuss the ethics of meat-eating with me,
that is fine (although I would prefer that this not happen over dinner,
myself). Such an attempt at conversion (if that's what it is) is
acceptable to me. That is, however, *far* different from serving me meat,
knowing in advance about my vegetarianism, and feeling hurt or angry that
I don't eat it. That's just bad hosting.
>
> Just curious 'bout the possible double standard here... I mean why
> wouldn't you prepare a meat based dish for your non-vegan friends when
> they come over to your house?
Because then we would be preparing something we couldn't eat, which
is a tad silly. Besides, all preference issues aside, there's nothing about
vegan food intrinsically off-putting to a meat eater, so why shouldn't a
vegan cook according to his/her lights?
Dorothea
--
Dorothea M. Rovner | "Nuestras vidas son los rios
Grad Student Eternal | que van a dar en la mar/qu'es el morir."
dmro...@students.wisc.edu | Jorge Manrique
Carmela Epright
On Thu, 11 Jul 1996, Don Pobiak wrote:
> So it is ok for you to try and convert the world but not for those
> "horrible" meat eaters to convert you??
>
> Just curious 'bout the possible double standard here... I mean why
> wouldn't you prepare a meat based dish for your non-vegan friends when
> they come over to your house?
>
>
>
First of all, I doubt seriously that most of my meat-eating friends have a
moral or theoretical framework for their meat eating, thus they have
little to convert me to, except the unreflective cultural standards that
I have already rejected. I do in fact have well thought out,
philosophically sound moral principles for not eating meat--
vegetarianism is not merely a preference for me, it is
moral/philosophical principle. If I were to meet someone who had the
same approach to their meat eating I would certainly listen to their
arguments.
Secondly, I specifically said that I *NEVER* demand that meat-
eaters cook for me, I always offer to cook a vegetarian dish so that they
are not obliged to cook vegetarian meals for me-- thus,they are safe
to maintain their views about meat eating. Given that standard, I do
not see how I obliged to cook meat for my guests, they can bring their
own dish with meat if they so desire, but I will not cook meat in my
home-- I see no inconsistency in this approach. I was joking when I said
that I want to convert the world-- generally I do not get into
discussions about my vegetarianism unless people express an interest in
hearing my arguments. I do find that when I cook for people they tend to
be impressed by how good vegetarian cooking can be-- I am a very good
cook. Meat-eaters (not all, but many) often believe that food cannot
taste good if it is not prepared with meat-- I do think it is a good idea
to convince them that there are wonderful veggie dishes in the world.
Finally, I do not remember *ever* refering to meat eaters as
horrible, or even implying that I believed this to be true. Nor did
I say that I was a vegan-- In point of fact I am not a vegan
(is there some confusion here? Are you aware that there is a difference
between veganism and vegetarianism?).
I see no indication that I am guilty of a double standard,
however I do see some evidence that you have read quite a bit more into
my post than can be pointed to in the text.
--Carmela
plo...@pipeline.com
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4s3tqv$q...@dsm6.dsmnet.com>, Su McCurdy
writes:
big deal over how she was going to have the caterer make me a special
vegetarian entree. I don't know if it slipped her mind or what, but I
don't consider roast beef a vegetarian entree! No biggie; I ate the
veggies and rice. Personally I think that if we choose to be vegetarian,
we have to accept that we live in a carnivorous world and deal with it. No
one is going to starve over one meal missed.
Lisa Hixson
>So it is ok for you to try and convert the world but not for those
>"horrible" meat eaters to convert you??
>
>Just curious 'bout the possible double standard here... I mean why
>wouldn't you prepare a meat based dish for your non-vegan friends when
>they come over to your house?
>
This is why I don't read rec.food.veg, because I have too often seen
posters who just want to argue. All I want is to learn new things to cook
that are vegetarian, not be harassed by this kind of jerk.
Lisa
Shannon Lea Stelly
Angelique Skiman (an...@apollo.sfsu.edu) wrote:
: My boyfriend and I agreed that it was really rude of her to make
: chicken without asking either of us, esp. since I never eaten any meat for
: all of the years I have known her. I know that the meal is not the most
: important thing when one goes to a friends house to eat. It is the company
: that matters.
I gather this was just you and your boyfriend coming over, as opposed to
a full-fledged dinner party. In any case, I think it's rude, but
especially so if she was supposedly making a meal just for you. And
saying "You're still doing that?" seems like a pretty rude response.
Would she have said that if someone trying to keep kosher refused bacon?
I find most of my friends try to provide something for me. If there are
several guests, there may be meat for others, but when people have
invited just me and my husband they've made only food we eat.
However, I find it hard to believe that she just "forgot" I
: didn't eat meat. We have had many arguments over the years about meat-eating
: versus non-meat eating, etc. However, I can't imagine someone
: deliberately doing something like that just to make others
: uncomfortable. What do you all think? Had this kind of thing ever happened to
: any of you? Did I handle it properly?
I'd have done the same thing. I can't guess your friend's motives since
I don't know her. But even if she was doing it deliberately there's no
point in raising a fuss. It seems to me someone who would do that
deliberately probably thinks being a vegetarian is some extremist thing
to do (if you've argued a lot, does she think this?) and making a big
deal is just going to reinforce that.
And you certainly shouldn't eat it to be polite
if you don't feel comfortable doing it. Not a critique of your boyfriend
there, it's a judgement call as I see it. I'm a vegan, and I will in
certain situations eat something with eggs or dairy if it's served to me,
but I would never do that with meat. I couldn't get it down if I tried.
I usually just take whatever I can eat in social settings and don't offer
any explanation unless asked, basically I try to be low-key about it.
In any case, I'd turn down any future dinner invites from her :) .
Shannon
Jodi Paul
In article
<<rec.food.veg.cooking/4s1arr$r...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com plotte
wrote: one of my pet peeves is when people say "there's just a
little meat in it." I hate that!>>
One of the things I finally had to tell my family to help them
understand was this (I hope this doesn't gross you out):
Well, mother, would you just pick a turd out of the soup that had
been cooked with it in there?
- - - - - - - Same god, different name? No problem! - - - - - - -
Jodi Paul
In article
rec.food.veg.cooking/4s248i$m...@useneta1.news.prodigy.com Lisa
Hixson wrote:
<<It was a bit harder when we went to his grandmother's house for
Thanksgiving last year. He told her I don't eat meat and I was
making do, trying to find something edible (it was hard --
foodwise, that was the worst Thanksgiving)>>
That is a shame. The only thing my family seems to have at
Thanksgiving that contains meat is the turkey, the gravy, the green
beans (she makes them with bacon for some reason I can't
understand) and the stuffing (with the turkey broth). My mother
now makes me "my own" small dish of stuffing which she makes with
water instead of the turkey or chicken broth. I remember my
grandmother being so concerned a couple of Thanksgivings, "Well,
what are you going to *eat*, honey?" I answer, "Well, how about
the mac & cheese, rice, corn casserole, mashed potatoes, yams,
baked squash, cauliflower and the rolls? They are all vegetarian."
She replies, "Oh. You know, I guess you're right."
I guess some people don't take the time to think that it could be
something they would eat and still be "vegetarian."
My family is pretty well educated now, that much is for sure! :)
mirabour
Robert Wahl
pob...@asu.edu (Don Pobiak) writes:
>So it is ok for you to try and convert the world but not for those
>"horrible" meat eaters to convert you??
>Just curious 'bout the possible double standard here... I mean why
>wouldn't you prepare a meat based dish for your non-vegan friends when
>they come over to your house?
It's the "least common denominator" principle. I would never attempt to
feed meat-eaters any food which they told me they couldn't eat, be it
because of their ethics, beliefs, allergies or just preferences. Likewise,
neither of us should be expected to prepare a dish which is contrary to
our own beliefs. Generally, a veg*n dish will meet everyone's
restrictions and (one hopes) tastes. If not, or if the common
denominator is too restricted, we would expect to arrange for our own
meals and/or dine out where both our requirements could be individually
met. There is no double standard.
As for converting, it's hardly a one-sided situation. The meat-eaters,
and especially the self-interested animal-use industries, have been
coercing us since birth to follow their ways. We all have the right
to express our views and concerns, to try to influence others. Until
recently, the animal-use industries were very successful in manipulating
public sentiment in their favor, mainly by disseminating dietary
misinformation through the public schools, lobbying for entitlement
programs, reinforcing associations between affluence and meat-eating
and unloading surpluses via school lunch programs. Fortunately, there is
an increasing body of evidence that eating meat is not a neutral or benign
choice, and the meat advocates have little to counter with except "this is
what you're accustomed to". In terms of controlling the distribution
of information, anti-meat advocates are still at a gross disadvantage,
since they haven't the profit base to fund it, must counter culturally
entrenched beliefs and battle economic interests which are strongly
supported by the government.
But there is now a growing number of people who are becoming sensitized
to the issues, and who would like to do something as long as it wouldn't
involve too many "sacrifices". If I can encourage them by example, and
by showing them the sacrifices are smaller than they imagine (or the
stakes are greater than they realized) it is only with their complicity.
We can hardly be accused of a double standard just because we
have no interest in converting back to meat-eating.
--
Robert Wahl rw...@netcom.com Denver, Colorado, USA
Julie Bonita Anderson
>How about someone who refuses to drink alcohol, for whatever reason?
(I
>fall into this category, too, and it has caused far more social
trouble
>for me than has my vegetarianism.)
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
Having suffered through numerous dinners where the topic went from the
fact that I don't eat meat to the fact that I don't drink alcohol to
the fact that I don't smoke all the while being forced to listen to
people offer excuses (that I really feel in no position to comment on
-- I mean I am not a priest/confessor) as to why they do it is
refreshing to hear of someone who is willing to acknowledge the
problem. People seem to have this accpeting attitude towards
non-drinkers and vegetarians just until it starts to make them feel
uncomfortable with their own choices. From someone who has been
offered wine 10 times a meal only to have to repeat over and over no
thanks, I don't drink .... Thanks!
P.S. as to the whole dining at a non-veggies house -- specify in
advance. I do the same as to not-drinking ("Can I bring a bottle of
sparkling grape juice?) and non-smoking ("I can't join you if there
will be smoking in the house). This usually clears everything up (at
least as far as the food goes) and avoids any problems. Oh another
thing just for the record.... Don't eat it even just to be polite!
You're hosts wouldn't expect you to eat anything that would make you
sick and spiritual sickness (which I certainly would feel after eating
chicken) is sickness all the same.
Julie Anderson
Grad Student2
Amy Maio
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4s7msh$s...@news-e2d.gnn.com>,
Jodi Paul <Mira...@news-e2d.gnn.com> wrote:
>
>One of the things I finally had to tell my family to help them
>understand was this (I hope this doesn't gross you out):
>
>Well, mother, would you just pick a turd out of the soup that had
>been cooked with it in there?
This was SO funny! And so true, so simple. I will have to remember to use
that at Christmas when I go home and my sister asks if I'm one of those
funky vegetarians that seem to overpopulate her school who won't eat my
veggies if it touches/been cooked with/been cooked on the same grill as
meat. Good answer!
Amy =)
--
**********************************************************************
* /\ |\ /| \ / * http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~sampras *
* / \ | \/ | \ / * The George Washington University *
* /----\ | | | * Class of '97 * Criminal Justice *
* / \ | | | * Federal Bureau of Investigation *
**********************************************************************
Robert Wahl
>In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4s7msh$s...@news-e2d.gnn.com>,
>Jodi Paul <Mira...@news-e2d.gnn.com> wrote:
sam...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Amy Maio) writes:
>This was SO funny! And so true, so simple. I will have to remember to use
>that at Christmas when I go home and my sister asks if I'm one of those
>funky vegetarians that seem to overpopulate her school who won't eat my
>veggies if it touches/been cooked with/been cooked on the same grill as
>meat. Good answer!
To me, this kind of answer only echoes the kind of knee-jerk emotional
reactions meat-eaters have to vegetarian cooking. There is no rational
basis for getting so het up over mere contact with animal by-products,
especially when one considers that most vegetables are grown in a rich
mixture of soil and shit. It goes far beyond the objective and ethical
reasons for being vegetarian, and contributes to the image of vegetarians
as "kooks".
It is one thing to act out of one's convictions -- people can respect that.
It's quite another to act like a flaming princess when there's no real
compromise to those convictions. If your reaction to a little crud on
your food -- the kind you used to savor -- results in such unpleasantness
to both yourself and others, it's time to get a grip.
RedPenguin
This is a very interesting issue, one that I might add was brought up to
me not too long ago when my brother in law and his wife and children (meat
eaters) came to visit for the weekend. I was asked if I would tell
someone if invited to their house that we were vegetarians...I said that
if it were a party I prolly wouldn't cause I figure there is usually
enough stuff there to nibble at that it wouldn't be a problem. Since my
son is allergic to milk, we tend to be vegan at home ( a few dishes here
and there with goat cheese which he can tolorate). If bringing the whole
crew, I usually alert people to his allergy and hope for the best. I
always bring a dish or sandwiches for him/us just in case tho...usually
stored in the car till I see what's to eat.
A funny thing tho...At our previous church in California we had many
events where people of the congregation brought a dish...I always brought
something vegan...loved to make a dish with tofu hidden inside and then
watch it be demolished by people who SWORE they would never eat tofu! At
a few parties, our hostess made all the food...on one occasion she noticed
my husband and I not eating much...when she asked us why we simply told
her that we were vegetarians...then she notices about three other people
not eating much...turns out they were too...had never said anything, and
she had never noticed. Well, Lenten Soup Suppers after that at her house
always included a veggie soup, and I have seen from the church bulletin
that has been sent to us that the veggie options continue after our
departure...hurray for her!!
Having heard so many of you say that you would tell a hostess your eating
preferences I have decided that I will do the same in future...after all,
being a vegetarian is nothing to be ashamed of!
Pamela
Dan Gries
i am enjoying this conversation, actually. i usually get a little bored with
non-food type discussions here, but this one is kind of fun. i love that
line "are you still doing that?" that's precious!
i think it's a good idea to let your hosts know in advance that you are
vegetarian - several people here have suggested this. i am curious to
know if you folks have an "old standby" dish that you prepare on such
occassions. i would be interested in hearing what kind of dishes you
enjoy serving to the meat-eating world.
perhaps it's whatever you have in your fridge!
-dan in ohio
Louise Bremner
> ... can I bring a vegetarian dish to share?"
I've been doing this for a while--in fact I did so yesterday. But,
although I think my ratatouille is very nice, I'm getting a little bored
of eating it every time I go and visit someone else. So are there any
other suggestions for a dish that can be cooked the night before,
doesn't mind being carried around in a plastic box, won't spoil if left
for hours on a buffet, will impress a wide variety of nationalities, can
be eaten hot or tepid with a wide range of foods from different
cuisines, and doesn't involve eggs or dairy (nor substitutes, since they
aren't available here)? Or is that an impossible set of conditions to
satisfy completely?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Louise Bremner, from grimy Tokyo
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Amy Maio
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/rwahlDu...@netcom.com>,
Robert Wahl <rw...@netcom.com> wrote:
>mixture of soil and shit. It goes far beyond the objective and ethical
>reasons for being vegetarian, and contributes to the image of vegetarians
>as "kooks".
I don't know that it actually does. It is a bit of an extreme analogy,
yes, but it does help get the point across to meat-eaters how repulsed
you are at eating meat.
>compromise to those convictions. If your reaction to a little crud on
>your food -- the kind you used to savor -- results in such unpleasantness
>to both yourself and others, it's time to get a grip.
Not speaking for anybody else, but I never really did savor meat. I
always hated it.
Amy
TCW
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4s61tr$r...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com>,
plo...@pipeline.com wrote:
[snippage about some faux pax]
> It does happen. I was maid of honor at a friends wedding and she made a
> big deal over how she was going to have the caterer make me a special
> vegetarian entree. I don't know if it slipped her mind or what, but I
> don't consider roast beef a vegetarian entree! No biggie; I ate the
> veggies and rice. Personally I think that if we choose to be vegetarian,
> we have to accept that we live in a carnivorous world and deal with it. No
> one is going to starve over one meal missed.
>
Nice to see that some sanity and pragmatism still exist.
--
T.C. Wright, Ph.D. * It isn't pollution that's harming the
Green Oaks Res. * environment, it is the impurities in the
go...@flash.net * air and water that are doing it
-Dan Quayle
Kathy Carlson
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4s1v87$s...@news.csus.edu>, an...@apollo.sfsu.edu (Angelique Skiman) wrote:
>
>Thank you all for your comments. I will never go to another person's
>house for dinner again without informing them of my vegetarianism. I
>guess I just assumed this person remembered. I am sure she just screwed
>up. Although she can exhibit passive aggressive behavior from time to
>time which gets annoying (also one of the reasons why we see
>each other only occasionally).
>
That's funny! I was going to say that it sounds like a passive-aggressive
move to me. I have lived with 2 PA people. She was definately pulling
a PA move. It's textbook!
Kathy
LINDEN SELBY
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4s1v87$s...@news.csus.edu> an...@apollo.sfsu.edu (Angelique Skiman) writes:
>From: an...@apollo.sfsu.edu (Angelique Skiman)
>Subject: Re: Being invited over to a non-vegetarian's house for dinner
>Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 04:17:11 GMT
>Thank you all for your comments. I will never go to another person's
>house for dinner again without informing them of my vegetarianism. I
>guess I just assumed this person remembered. I am sure she just screwed
>up. Although she can exhibit passive aggressive behavior from time to
>time which gets annoying (also one of the reasons why we see
>each other only occasionally).
>It has been interesting to hear people's remarks and experiences. I am
>glad to know I am not alone! Thank you!
>-Angelique M. Skiman
>an...@sfsu.edu
This thread reminded me of the meal I prepared for a quite
strict friend and partner - fresh tomato and basil soup, wild porcini risotto,
fresh peaches baked with ginger and vanilla - no meat! no fish! no eggs! no
cheese!I really thought I'd done it, until I remembered the arborio rice had
been done with a chicken boillon cube. (Ack!) I only remembered after my
guests had gone home, and felt dreadful about it. I told them the next day,
they were ok with it, and joked that there was probably no chicken in the cube
anyway- BUT I just never even gave it a thought at the time. Lots of us cook
non meat meals for pleasure and interesting dishes, so those little things
don't feature in the cooking plan. It's just cookery for us, and easy to
forget that its more significant for a vegan/vegetarian. That didn't stop me
feeling like really thoughtless and stupid.
Linden
D. Dale Gulledge
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4s6kj0$h...@tiger4.ocs.lsu.edu> sst...@tiger.lsu.edu (Shannon Lea Stelly) writes:
I'd have done the same thing. I can't guess your friend's motives since
I don't know her. But even if she was doing it deliberately there's no
point in raising a fuss. It seems to me someone who would do that
deliberately probably thinks being a vegetarian is some extremist thing
to do (if you've argued a lot, does she think this?) and making a big
deal is just going to reinforce that.
Vegetarianism is an extremist practice. I say that having been veggie for the
last 6 months and considering going vegan. For whatever reason, health,
animal rights, religion, etc., we choose not to eat meat. We practice our
values, and that has always been extremism and always will be. But it is
utterly personal. What I choose to eat is about the food that I put into my
body. It is no one else's right to ever dictate that I must eat something in
particular.
- Dale
--
D. Dale Gulledge, Software Engineer
Directory & Operator Services, Nortel.
Rochester, NY
Warning: Bicyclist in mirror is moving faster than you think.
D. Dale Gulledge
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4s248i$m...@useneta1.news.prodigy.com> QVS...@prodigy.com (Lisa Hixson) writes:
I admit she sounds pretty clueless. The fact that you two have argued
over eating meat in the past makes it hard for me to believe she didn't
remember.
When I was growing up, everyone in my family knew I was the "weird eater"
but I never expected special dishes when I ate over someone else's house,
I just ate what I liked and left the rest. My fiancee worries about this
alot more than I do. Whenever we go anywhere to eat, he makes sure they
know I'm a vegetarian (which is certainly considerate), but I know I
could make do if they didn't know. It was a bit harder when we went to
his grandmother's house for Thanksgiving last year. He told her I don't
eat meat and I was making do, trying to find something edible (it was
hard -- foodwise, that was the worst Thanksgiving), but she kept telling
me how her family was Cajun and that their meals were always built around
meat. Other than that it wasn't too big a deal. :)
Some of my omnivorous friends are are trying to cut down on their fat intake
or the cost of their meals or both. I have been asked by one of them for
suggestions on recipes. Dining with meat eating friends doesn't require any
confrontation at all. Usually when I am invited to a meat eating friend's
house for a meal, I offer to bring a veggie dish. It is a gentle way of
reminding my forgetful friends that I won't be eating meat.
Chuck Narad
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4sagp3$9...@gol1.gol.com>, l...@gol.com writes:
>> I've been doing this for a while--in fact I did so yesterday. But,
> although I think my ratatouille is very nice, I'm getting a little bored
> of eating it every time I go and visit someone else. So are there any
> other suggestions for a dish that can be cooked the night before,
> doesn't mind being carried around in a plastic box, won't spoil if left
> for hours on a buffet, will impress a wide variety of nationalities, can
> be eaten hot or tepid with a wide range of foods from different
> cuisines, and doesn't involve eggs or dairy (nor substitutes, since they
> aren't available here)? Or is that an impossible set of conditions to
> satisfy completely?
ask and ye shall receive; here's one of my standard party dishes:
-------------- include old recipe ---------------
This is yet another variation of my Rice With Stuff in It recipe;
it is a tasty and nutritious 30-minute one-pot casserole.
Rice With Different Stuff In It
-------------------------------
1 1/2 cups uncooked rice (I use white basmati rice)
3 cups water
1 small onion, diced
2 cups chopped broccoli (florets and stems)
1 cup mixed raisins and dried cranberries
4 oz. Baked Savory tofu* (from the store), cubed
1 12-oz can garbanzos, drained
1/4 pound oyster mushrooms, cut into strips
small handful of sunflower seeds
2 tbs garam masala
1 tsp ground cumin seed
2 tsp ground cardomom
1 tsp turmeric
2 tsp nutmeg
1/4 tsp cayenne pepper
1 TBS miso paste
1 TBS margarine or butter (for LACTO)
1 cup sliced mushrooms
* I buy this at a local HFS; it is basically tofu that has been
pressed, marinated in soy and spices, then baked. It's also good
cold, on a sandwich with mustard, tomato, and sprouts.
Dump it all into a pot. Bring to a boil, stir, cover, and reduce
heat to medium-low. Cook for 20 minutes, no peeking! May form
a crust on the bottom. Serve with yogurt on the side.
Variants include cashews, walnuts, brown and golden raisins,
dried pineapple, carrot, cauliflower, precooked and cubed
potato, mung sprouts, or just about anything you might find
in the refrigerator. For brown rice, cook 40 minutes.
---------------- end old recipe -----------------
leftovers are good reheated, or wrapped in a tortilla with hot
sauce, or under mashed potatoes as a sort of shephard's pie,
or scrambled in eggs (if you eat eggs), or just about any variation
you can think of.
c/
--------------------------------------------------------------------
| Chuck Narad -- diver/adventurer/engineer |
| |
| "The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for |
| our wits to grow sharper." -- Eden Phillpotts |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Narad
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4s9h6i$9...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, redpe...@aol.com writes:
>
> Having heard so many of you say that you would tell a hostess your eating
> preferences I have decided that I will do the same in future...after all,
> being a vegetarian is nothing to be ashamed of!
ahem...or your host. men *do* cook, y'know. :-)
Aviv Gladman
Say, have you got a recipe for those peaches?
Aviv Gladman
----
Grad student hungry for peaches
On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, LINDEN SELBY wrote:
> This thread reminded me of the meal I prepared for a quite
> strict friend and partner - fresh tomato and basil soup, wild porcini risotto,
> fresh peaches baked with ginger and vanilla - no meat! no fish! no eggs! no
<additional text deleted>
Joan N Daughney
Just take your own food.
On Fri, 12 Jul 1996, Lisa Hixson wrote:
> >So it is ok for you to try and convert the world but not for those
> >"horrible" meat eaters to convert you??
> >
> >Just curious 'bout the possible double standard here... I mean why
> >wouldn't you prepare a meat based dish for your non-vegan friends when
> >they come over to your house?
> >
>
Billy Chambless
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/rwahlDu...@netcom.com>, rw...@netcom.com (Robert Wahl) writes:
|> >In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4s7msh$s...@news-e2d.gnn.com>,
|> >Jodi Paul <Mira...@news-e2d.gnn.com> wrote:
|> >>[...] Well, mother, would you just pick a turd out of the soup that had
|> >>been cooked with it in there?
|> To me, this kind of answer only echoes the kind of knee-jerk emotional
|> reactions meat-eaters have to vegetarian cooking. There is no rational
|> basis for getting so het up over mere contact with animal by-products,
I think it's a pretty good analogy.
I'm not a vegeta4rian, but my sister is, and when we visit my mother she
can't undestand why my sis won't just pick the meat out of a dish.
If you cook meat into a dish, the juices, flavor, fat, etc. of the meat
become part of the dish, inseparably. The turd analogy is pretty darned
apt, IMHO.
--
* Billy Chambless | bi...@cast.msstate.edu | voice: 601-688-7608
* Mississippi State University Center for Air-Sea Technology
* "And I don't like doing silly things (except on purpose)."
* --Larry Wall in <1992Jul3.1...@netlabs.com>
Kelly
In <rec.food.veg.cooking/4s7ncm$s...@news-e2d.gnn.com>
Mira...@news-e2d.gnn.com (Jodi Paul) writes:
>
>
>In article
>rec.food.veg.cooking/4s248i$m...@useneta1.news.prodigy.com Lisa
>Hixson wrote:
>Thanksgiving last year. He told her I don't eat meat and I was
>making do, trying to find something edible (it was hard --
>
>That is a shame. The only thing my family seems to have at
>Thanksgiving that contains meat is the turkey, the gravy, the green
>beans (she makes them with bacon for some reason I can't
>understand) and the stuffing (with the turkey broth). My mother
>now makes me "my own" small dish of stuffing which she makes with
>water instead of the turkey or chicken broth. I remember my
>grandmother being so concerned a couple of Thanksgivings, "Well,
>what are you going to *eat*, honey?" I answer, "Well, how about
>the mac & cheese, rice, corn casserole, mashed potatoes, yams,
>baked squash, cauliflower and the rolls? They are all vegetarian."
> She replies, "Oh. You know, I guess you're right."
>
>I guess some people don't take the time to think that it could be
>something they would eat and still be "vegetarian."
>
>My family is pretty well educated now, that much is for sure! :)
>
>mirabour
>
>
>
>
a suggestion for that Thanksgiving stuffing that she
makes for you...suggest she use vegetable broth instead
of just plain water. It's delish! Especially if it's
a hearty brown broth!
:)
Kelly
In <rec.food.veg.cooking/4s3oa5$3...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>
pob...@asu.edu (Don Pobiak) writes:
>
>cep...@orion.it.luc.edu (Carmela Epright) wrote:
>
>
>>Angelique,
>> I think that it is quite possible that your friend just forgot
>>that you are a vegetarian, as a previous post noted, when one is not
a
>>vegetarian one might not think about it-- admittedly this is rather
odd
>
>snip snip
>> Generally speaking, my friends tell me that bringing a dish is
>>unnecessary,and they whip up a veggie alternative, but I have made
many
>>a meal for friends who invited me to their homes. This gives me the
>>opportunity to introduce them to veggie food, and they are always
pleasantly
>>surprised by how good it is (yes, I am interested in converting the
world!!).
>> Just wanted to share my experience.
>>--Carmela
>So it is ok for you to try and convert the world but not for those
>"horrible" meat eaters to convert you??
>
>Just curious 'bout the possible double standard here... I mean why
>wouldn't you prepare a meat based dish for your non-vegan friends when
>they come over to your house?
>
This is an asinine comment. I highly doubt that eating a
vegetarian meal would be objectionable to a flesh eater,
whereas eating a flesh meal would be highly objectionable
to a vegetarian.
Wanting to convert someone to a healthier lifestyle which
will undoubtedly allow them to live a longer and much more
disease resistent existence is hardly the same as wanting
to convert someone to a lifestyle that has proved repeatedly
to cause massive physical damage to someone!
Although I don't try to "convert" my flesh-eating friends
and do not "judge" them for their food choices, I do throw
in my 2 cents worth when the opportunity presents itself
(the recent outbreak of Mad Cow disease being a perfect
example).
Grrr....
Louise Bremner
> This is yet another variation of my Rice With Stuff in It recipe;
> it is a tasty and nutritious 30-minute one-pot casserole.
Looks good. But--pardon me looking a gift recipe in the mouth--I was
really looking for something with lots of tasty sauce to soak up all the
rice/couscous/bread/potatoes/etc that's always available (and that's a
condition I edited out of my list, because I thought it was obvious and
I was getting long-winded). Maybe it's different where you are, but here
there's rarely any difficulty with the stodge part of the meal.
Never mind--I'll save this recipe for when I entertain.
> (I use white basmati rice)
<sigh> I wish I could.
RedPenguin
>this one kid pipes up "Let me guess- you're a vegetarian." I said yes. My
friend >Andy across the table gives me
>the arched eyebrow look,
Shoot...out here in Central New Jersey, people look at me like I have
three heads when I say I am a vegetarian!
Pamela
sar...@teleport.com
>
>
>
> Well, mother, would you just pick a turd out of the soup that had
> been cooked with it in there?
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!! I've got to remember that one!!!!!!
If the hosts don't know then they can't be blamed. However, this girl was obviously doing it on purpose! Kick her
butt! <BWEG>
One of my favorite memories was in senior year, when I sat down to the lunch table in the cafeteria. I was
ranting about how the cooks were all in a conspiracy to starve me, by putting meat in everything in sight, when
this one kid pipes up "Let me guess- you're a vegetarian." I said yes. My friend Andy across the table gives me
the arched eyebrow look, like from Star Trek's Dr. McCoy......I use that look all the time! I didn't think many
people remembered it anymore! :-)
Time Lady
"Haha....you kill me."
"You want me to kill you?!"
--The Master and Chang Lee
Sharon Strauss
Excuse me for coming in late to this thread. I missed the original
discussion and only caught the follow-up arguments and recipe requests.
However, the title of this thread intrigues me because as a veggie always
feel awkward about accepting invites from people I don't know that well.
I love to meet new people and to have someone else cook me a yummie meal,
but I hate to impose my dietary restictions on these nice people who take
the time and trouble to invite to their home. While some people tend to
cook vegetarian meals or at least yummie vegetarian side dishes as a
matter of course, other feel very awkward with this type of menu. I don't
wish to preach, but I will not knowingly eat anything prepared with any
fish, chicken or meat products.
In general I either turn down such invitations (which admittedly do not
occur very often) or inform the people that I am a vegetarian and ask if I
can bring something to the dinner. Then cook up some yummie veggie item I
think most will like. (Sometimes the dish is a big hit, other times I
notice few eating it but me.) However, from time to time I come up with
one of the following problems.
1. My hosts just don't understand what constitutes vegetarian food, then
insist that it will be no problem and there will plenty to eat. And no, I
shouldn't bring anything. Then, they have something like cheeze and
crackers and veggies with dip. I spend the evening starving, and if the
host notices this, they feel bad about not pleasing their guest.
2. The host goes through A LOT of extra trouble, and I feel like a burden
on the party.
Have others experienced this type of problem, and if so, how do you deal
with it? Thanks.
sar...@teleport.com
(yes, I am interested in converting the world!!).
Me too. I mainly want to convert my brother, though, for now. I don't think he wants to
try, though. He tried once and went back, he insists that there was too much "pressure"
from me and Steve(another veggie friend of ours), hell! We were only trying to help,
Steve by bringing diet books and me by trying to get my bro to actually eat vegetables,
instead of eggs all the time......my brother refused my offer. He doesn't like vegetables.
>
> So it is ok for you to try and convert the world but not for those
> "horrible" meat eaters to convert you??
Yes it is. Meat-eaters are always trying to make it a pain for us to stay veggie.
"Forgetting" is just one of their many tricks. Besides, it's not like we're dealing drugs-
we're promoting a healthier way of living.
Time Lady, Vegetable pusher
"Hey! You! Yeah, you! You look like the type of guy who appreciates a good stick of
celery......"
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>
Aldo Mosca Coppola
Billy Chambless wrote:
>
> If you cook meat into a dish, the juices, flavor, fat, etc. of the meat
> become part of the dish, inseparably. The turd analogy is pretty darned
> apt, IMHO.
>
Well, I have to agree that it is a strong analogy, but I doubt it is very
effective. NOBODY likes to be told that they eat shit. I think this attitude
goes a long way in explaining why vegetarians are viewed as cranks by most
people. I have made a personal choice, but I do not force it on others. The
best proselitism I can come up with is cooking awesome meals for my friends
and family. They already know the importance of a good diet and would like
to try their hand at veg*ism, but are usually intimidated by the recipes/new
ingredients they have to learn, so after every meal, everybody is eager to try
at least one of the easier dishes, and I usually have to give out a couple of
recipes/tips.
As to what to do when invited over to a non-veg meal, my advise
is "don't be rude". Realize that you have been invited to partake in a
friend's celebration of life, however disgusting you may find it. If your
final decision is to refuse the invitation, make sure you explain your motives
so that you don't offend your friends and family.
Regards,
++aldo
Samantha Lane
Sharon Strauss wrote:
<snip>
>However, from time to time I come up with
> one of the following problems.
>
> 1. My hosts just don't understand what constitutes vegetarian food, then
> insist that it will be no problem and there will plenty to eat. And no, I
> shouldn't bring anything. Then, they have something like cheeze and
> crackers and veggies with dip. I spend the evening starving, and if the
> host notices this, they feel bad about not pleasing their guest.
>
I think its reasonable if someone tells you they are a vegetarian that you assume
they eat eggs and cheese (even though they're not veggies) because that's just the
common use of the word.
--
Samantha Lane Australian Nuclear Science and
s...@anpnt22.anp.ansto.gov.au Technology Organistation
ISD + 61 2 717 3601 New Illawarra Rd ,
Lucas Heights. 2234
sar...@teleport.com
>>Andy across the table gives me
> >the arched eyebrow look,
>
> Shoot...out here in Central New Jersey, people look at me like I have
> three heads when I say I am a vegetarian!
>
The other thing is, they say 'vegetarian' like it's a swear word. Like they have to FORCE the word out of their
vocal cords. Or they say 'vegetRarian.' Geez. Do I walk around calling them cRarnovires? <G>
Time Lady
"Which way are we going, Doctor?"
'Ah....forward." -Doctor Who and the Genesis of the Daleks
sar...@teleport.com
Or is that an impossible set of conditions to
> satisfy completely?
>
No, not really. This one will keep a while, but if you don't chill it, you should reheat it......
It's basically elbow macaroni, with tomato sauce and any of these additions. In our
house it's called goulash....
Ground Meatless, olives, or mushrooms take the place of the meat in the sauce.
Time Lady
sar...@teleport.com
> >So it is ok for you to try and convert the world but not for those
> >"horrible" meat eaters to convert you?? Duh!
>
The meat-eaters,
> and especially the self-interested animal-use industries, have been
> coercing us since birth to follow their ways.
>
Yes! Thank you! I agree totally!
> We can hardly be accused of a double standard just because we
> have no interest in converting back to meat-eating.
If you don't think that the meat industry has been coercing us, then I suggest you read
the book "Diet For a New America" by John Robbins.
>From the book:
"The National Livestock and Meat Board makes it a point to 'reach the children of the
land at an early age,' and 'prepare them for a lifetime of meat-eating. As they put it in
therir 1974-75 Report: 'The 37 million elementary and 15 million high school students in
the United States constitute a special Meat Board audience.'"
...and it just gets worse from there!
Time Lady
Peter D. Saunders
i would be most interested in what you all serve for guests. i am a
navy wife, entertaining 14-60 people frequently. The 14 to 20 i do
alone, over that it becomes potluck. Dinner menus are tough for me,
steamed veggies, rice, pasta dishes are great for my family, but seem
to leave a little to be desired for a visiting Radm and others.
Again, my family is fine with tofu, etc., but i try not to hide and
surprise others with ingredients. Lasagna is great, but some of these
people are frequent return guests! Guess another problem is living in
Guam, not great fresh veggies and cannot find seitan or anything other
than plain tofu. Any help???
Cynthia S. Smith
Do you have eggplants (aubergines) in Guam? You can try making moussaka
instead of lasagna. Veggie stews are also good for potlucks. The web
has lots of recepies available. Good luck!
--Cynthia S. Smith
http://www.sn.no/~csmith
RedPenguin
I would also suggest subscribing to Vegetarian Times magazine. I have
made loads of delicious meals for my family and friends from this source.
Pamela
Danila Oder
What about lentil loaf with brown gravy? Lentil loaf is basically
cooked, mashed brown lentils, sauteed minced onion, carrot and
celery, and a binder like a little tofu, bread crumbs or mashed
potatoes. Season with thyme and sage, salt and pepper, and bake
in a loaf pan until crusty brown.
Also, I wouldn't feel bad about serving a casserole of vegan scalloped
potatoes and any other root vegetables I had around, along with
a vegetable side, a salad, and a high-protein dessert (tofu
cheezcake?).
Danila
Aviv Gladman
This is a definite guest pleaser. I was planning on taking the leftovers
for lunch the following day, but there weren't any! In fact, a friend
that dropped by just before dinner took a look at the pie cooling on the
counter and asked for the recipe without even tasting it.
My dad first learned how to make traditional shepherd's pie (mince and
tatties) from a Scottish nanny we had way back when. When I became a veg,
he revised the recipe to use tofu instead of meat (the taste was quite
similar). I've gotten a little sick of tofu since then, so this recipe
was a great find. We tried it for the first time last week and my dad was
forced to admit that it tasted better than both the tofu and the original
meat recipe. It's a quick and easy recipe, requires no exotic
ingredients, is *very* filling, and very tasty. I've reproduced it here
in case you don't have a web browser:
(http://www.vegweb.com/food/beans/pie-lentil1.shtml)
>From b...@shore.net (Robert J. Lodi)
Lentil Barley Shepherd's Pie (vegan)
2 cups water
1/2 cup uncooked lentils
1/4 cup uncooked barley
1 large carrot diced
1 medium onion chopped finely
8 oz. canned tomatoes diced
1 clove garlic crushed
1 tsp. flour
1 tsp. parsley
1 tsp. herbes du Provence
salt and pepper
3 medium potatoes cooked and mashed
Peel, cut up and boil potatoes until soft, then mash.
Heat 1 1/4 cups water, add lentils and barley, simmer 30 min.
Heat remaining water in a saucepan, add carrot, onion, garlic and cook
until tender, then add tomatoes and spices.
Mix the flour with a little water and add to sauce pan, stir and cook
over low heat until thickened.
Combine contents of saucepan with cooked lentils and barley, place in
ovenproof baking dish, cover with mashed potatos
Bake at 350 deg. F for 30 min. (or you can make it ahead of time and bake
it for 45 min. with it starting from refrigerator temp.)
comments: fresh tomatoes are better than canned, but you need to use more
than 8 ounces. Could use a little more garlic. If you can't find herbes
du Province substitute a mix of tarragon, rosemary, thyme, sage (which is
essentially what herbes du Province are). I think we used more potatoes, too.
Mary Margaret Schuck
In article <rec.food.veg.cooking/4slqim$a...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> bult...@ix.netcom.com (Kelly) writes:
>In <rec.food.veg.cooking/4s3oa5$3...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>
>pob...@asu.edu (Don Pobiak) writes:
[Note, I've moved the quoted comments together so the replies are more
coherent, but the text is unaltered. MM]
>>So it is ok for you to try and convert the world but not for those
>>"horrible" meat eaters to convert you??
>Wanting to convert someone to a healthier lifestyle which
>will undoubtedly allow them to live a longer and much more
>disease resistent existence is hardly the same as wanting
>to convert someone to a lifestyle that has proved repeatedly
>to cause massive physical damage to someone!
>Although I don't try to "convert" my flesh-eating friends
>and do not "judge" them for their food choices, I do throw
>in my 2 cents worth when the opportunity presents itself
>(the recent outbreak of Mad Cow disease being a perfect
>example).
Actually, eating veg is not necessarily one speck healthier.
Speaking as one who is trying to reduce meat but not eliminate it, I tend
to want to turn to cheese and butter and cream to make my food richer when
the meat is gone. From a purely healthy point of view, given my tastes and
lifestyle, reducing fat in all its forms makes more sense than just
eliminating one source. Obviously your mileage may vary, and going vegan
is different from ovo-lacto too, but it's not "proved repeatedly" that
veg is necessarily healthier. (Althought certainly everyone has the right
to make that decision for themselves.)
More to the point, it *has* been proven repeatedly that debating with
people over decisions they've made just makes them more polarised in
their opinions, particularly if the debate is seen as criticism. So
attempting to convert anyone except by example alone is rather
self-defeating.
It's unlikely you'll have any information which your carnivorous guess
will find either new or convincing; rather they'll just take attempts to
convert them as patronising and offensive, just as I assume most of us
would take attempts to change our lifestyles.
>>Just curious 'bout the possible double standard here... I mean why
>>wouldn't you prepare a meat based dish for your non-vegan friends when
>>they come over to your house?
>This is an asinine comment. I highly doubt that eating a
>vegetarian meal would be objectionable to a flesh eater,
>whereas eating a flesh meal would be highly objectionable
>to a vegetarian.
No it's not an asinine comment. There are a number of reasons why people
ask other over for meals. One of these is to please them by giving them
food that will please their palate and delight them. Odds are that for
carnivorous types the food that will *best* please them will involve
meat.
Fortunately we entertain with more than just providing our guests' very
favourite food in mind, so we can provide a compromise that both our
guests and ourselves will like, and feel secure that we're being
hospitable while not compromising our principles. For that matter, one
of the pleasures of being invited out is being given food that you may
not be familiar with, but which you trust will be tasty.
Ultimately, as I understand it, the primary point of entertaining is to
please one's guests, not make political statements, so when entertaining
people whose lifestyles are significantly different to our own we must be
particularly thoughtful, that's all.
Mary Margaret.
Mary.Marga...@dsto.defence.gov.au
Steven Cherry
In <rec.food.veg.cooking/31F500...@anpnt22.anp.ansto.gov.au> s...@anpnt22.anp.ansto.gov.au (Samantha Lane) writes:
>Sharon Strauss wrote:
>> 1. My hosts just don't understand what constitutes vegetarian food, then
>> insist that it will be no problem and there will plenty to eat. And no, I
>> shouldn't bring anything. Then, they have something like cheeze and
>> crackers and veggies with dip. I spend the evening starving, and if the
>> host notices this, they feel bad about not pleasing their guest.
>>
>If you don't eat cheese then you are a vegan and you should say so to your hosts.
>I think its reasonable if someone tells you they are a vegetarian that you assume
>they eat eggs and cheese (even though they're not veggies) because that's just the
>common use of the word.
I think the problem was not *enough* food, not that the dairy was a
problem per se. In fact, my own experience is that it's not hard to find
vegetarian dairy-based meals when in a restaurant or someone's home, but
finding vegan meals is, roughly speaking, impossible. (The discussion of
Thanksgiving in this thread is illustrative; other than salad I would
probably eat nothing at the average American household Thanksgiving meal.)
The original poster asked what to do to avoid the Scylla of eating
nothing and the Charybdis of greatly inconveniencing one's host (and even
the other guests, ultimately). I usually tell my host that I eat a very
restricted diet, what it is, and say that I'd love to come, but I'll eat
beforehand and they shouldn't worry about me.
Quite frankly, unless I knew the host knew what they were doing, and
wouldn't be greatly inconvenienced, I wouldn't eat their food even if they
wanted me to. People's ignorance about diet and ingredients, inability to
read labels, and the essential uninformativeness of many labels make it
tough even for me to cook for myself! For example, I don't eat sugar or
MSG in any form. Almost every iodized salt on the market has sugar in it.
Most soy sauce has sugar in some form. Almost anything with vegetable
protein has MSG in it. And so on.
If the host is uncomfortable with me sitting at a table and not eating,
I offer to come after the meal.
As some one else said, the point of a dinner party is the enjoyment of
the host and the guest. If *either* of us is going to be uncomfortable,
let's not do it.
-steven-
--
<s...@panix.com> <s...@acm.org>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
There will be light bulbs on the network, for pete's sake.
-- Vinton Cerf
Billy Chambless
|> "Forgetting" is just one of their many tricks. Besides, it's not like we're dealing drugs-
|> we're promoting a healthier way of living.
|>
|> Time Lady, Vegetable pusher
|>
|> "Hey! You! Yeah, you! You look like the type of guy who appreciates a good stick of
|> celery......"
Yeah, right.
It's just an innocent stick of celery now, but before long, you'll have
him all strung out, hustling spare change just so he can get a
half-pound of tofu or a sack of mangos...
We're on to you.
;) ;)
Michael & Jennye
This is my favorite story to tell about eating at non-vegetarian homes.
While my mother is supportive of my being vegetarian (it took her
awhile, but after 4 years, she has noticed that I'm still alive and
healthy), she still considers me to be a "weird eater" The humerous part
in all this is that my mother can't eat anything with sugar or wheat. A
wile ago, we thought that my fiance was allergic to gluten, so he
couldn't have wheat either. So eating at my parents house, even with his
very limited diet, was a cinch. I, on the other hand, was still the
"weird" eater! (Of course, when he was gluten free, his family
appreciated the ease of cooking for someone who was "just a
vegetarian"!)
Jennye
--
...Education is a journey not a race...
Warwick Allison
althe...@aol.com (Althea1501) writes:
>ok, sorry to add to a too-long thread, but about the whole complaining
>about people saying "vegetarian" like it's an insult...what about the way
>that some people (occasionally rather self-righteously, actually) spit the
>word "carnivore" at others who are really omnivores?
There are people who will not eat a meal not containing meat, and turn their
noses up at "vegetarian dishes" (perhaps even using the term as an insult as
suggested above). If any name is required for such an affliction, "carnivore"
would do best.
--
Warwick
--
_-_|\ war...@cs.uq.edu.au http://student.uq.edu.au/~s002434/linux.html
/ * <- Comp Sci Department, McD: http://student.uq.edu.au/~s002434/mcl.html
\_.-._/ Univ. of Queensland, POV: http://student.uq.edu.au/~s002434/pov.html
v Brisbane, Australia. ME: http://student.uq.edu.au/~s002434
Althea1501
ok, sorry to add to a too-long thread, but about the whole complaining
about people saying "vegetarian" like it's an insult...what about the way
that some people (occasionally rather self-righteously, actually) spit the
agree with all of you who belong to the non-judgemental mindset of
vegetarianism.
oh, as for the start of the thread...two popular veg recipes (both from my
mom, simplified for this college gal) that can go over cous-cous, over
rice, gooped up with bread...
EASY DAL
1 cup moong dal (that's the teeny yellow kind)
1/4 tsp. mustard seeds
1/4 tsp. whole cumin seeds
1 tsp oil
1/2 med. onion, chopped
fresh chilies to taste (i like more, but you can leave them out)
3 or 4 cups water
salt to taste (1 or 2 tsps)
lemon or lime juice to taste
1.in a large pot, combine chilies, onions, dal, and water, and simmer til
it's all mooshy...about 1/2 hour to 1 hour, depending on you stove, etc.
2. in a small pan, combine oil, mustard seeds, and cumin seeds. fry until
mustard seeds start to pop, then pour this sizzly mixture into the dal
pot.
3. stir, then add salt and lemon or lime juice to taste.
you can add diced tomatos, eggplant, cauliflower, carrots, whatever you
like...the more veggies the better, but you can just leave it plain, too!
CHANNA MASALA
1 can garbanzo beans (about 1 pint beans)
either 2 medium fresh tomatos, or i med. can tomato sauce
1 medium potato, diced to about garbanzo-bean size
LOTS of ground cumin powder...season to taste
black pepper to taste
salt to taste
1 pinch turmeric if you have it
1/2 tsp. mustard seeds
1 tbsp oil
1. fry the mustard seeds in the oil until they start to pop.
2. add the potatos, cool for a few minutes, til they start to lose their
crispiness
3. add drained, rinsed garbanzo beans
4. add tomatos and turmeric.
5. add salt, pepper, and cumin to taste...i usually use about one fat
tablespoon of cumin.
6. you can add chili powder or red chili flakes if you like, plus
garnishing with chopped cilantro, if it's available where you are.
7. stir and simmer until potatos are cooked.
ta-da, i hope these help, my friends love both!
althea
Sharon Curtis
sch...@netcom.com (Mary Margaret Schuck) wrote:
>No it's not an asinine comment. There are a number of reasons why people
>ask other over for meals. One of these is to please them by giving them
>food that will please their palate and delight them. Odds are that for
>carnivorous types the food that will *best* please them will involve
>meat.
I find that for my carnivorous friends and relatives, the type of
foods that best please them are either dishes with meat in, *or*
dishes that are not "supposed" to have meat in. Somehow if it's
vegetarian lasagne they feel hard done by without the meat, and somehow
inferior (although it might taste better).
My dad and I recently went to an Indian restaurant. He had chicken
something or other, and I had vegetable korma. The korma was much nicer
and he wished he'd ordered that. The meat-eaters I know will all order
meat-based dishes, and yet if there is vegetarian food out there
on a buffet, for example, they can be quite happy to eat it.
For entertaining, I go for something that I know meat-eaters won't
feel hard done by. Fondues!! Yumyumyum. As a cheese fondue is not
supposed to have meat in, somehow that makes a difference.
My favourite is Swiss, but I have lots of other recipes!!
See my fondues page:
http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/oucl/users/sharon.curtis/Recipes/fondues.html
Sharon
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Classic Swiss Fondue
Ingredients:
1 clove garlic, halved
250 ml (8 fl oz) dry white wine
1 teaspoon lemon juice
250g (8 oz / 2 cups) grated Gruyere cheese
250g (8 oz / 2 cups) grated Emmental cheese
1 teaspoon cornflour
1 tablespoon kirsch
pieces of cubed French bread, to serve
Method:
Rub the inside of the fondue pot with cut clove of garlic. Pour in
wine and lemon juice and heat gently until bubbling. Reduce the heat
to low, and gradually stir in grated cheeses, then continue to heat
until cheeses melt, stirring frequently. (This stage can take a looooong
time.) In a small bowl, blend cornflour smoothly with kirsch, then
stir into cheese mixture and continue to cook for 2-3 minutes until
mixture is thick and smooth, stirring frequently. Do not allow fondue
to boil. Serve with the bread.
(Serves 4)