A Silly Sourdough Question
Merryb
I usually don't post here, but I have a question. I have maintained a
great starter I began about 7 years ago. It's been in the fridge most
of the time, but every time I bring it out and baby it for a day or 2,
it's jumpin'! So, we recently moved into a house with a septic system.
I'm wondering what happens if starter gets in the septic tank. Do any
of you think it's doing anything in there? I know this may be a silly
question, and I don't dump it down the drain. Just thought I would
post this question to keep the group on topic instead of selling
shoes, watches, porn. Guess I could sell starter!! LOL! TIA!!
MerryB
Norvin
practice to put yeast down the drain to encourage the little bugs to eat
what comes down the drain, if you know what I mean.
Charlie Kroeger
> of you think it's doing anything in there?
no it will die.
Septic tank bacteria is anaerobic i.e.no oxygen. The sourdough starter
contains yeast and bacteria that are aerobic organisms, requires oxygen.
The pleasant smell of a well nutritioned sourdough starter is the opposite
of the unpleasant smell of biogas from anaerobic bacterial fermentation.
--
CK
Sam
> [..]
>
> Septic tank bacteria is anaerobic i.e.no oxygen. The sourdough starter
> contains yeast and bacteria that are aerobic organisms, requires oxygen.
>
Sam
Sam
> Hi all!
> I usually don't post here, but I have a question. I have maintained a
> great starter I began about 7 years ago. It's been in the fridge most
> of the time, but every time I bring it out and baby it for a day or 2,
> it's jumpin'! So, we recently moved into a house with a septic system.
> I'm wondering what happens if starter gets in the septic tank.
intestines, vagina?
Once that is known, once could make a more educated guess, if the
sourdough organisms would upset the sewage.
Sam
Dick Adams
"Sam" <sdnews-inbox...@samartha.net> wrote in message news:mailman.12.1208608087....@www.mountainbitwarrior.com...
Why are you pussyfooting, Sam? Jeez, you are beginning to act like Kenneth!
Why don't you just say it outright: You are wrong Charlie! Friggin' WRONG.
Doncha know anything Charlie? Why are you posting CRAP?
You people posting crap and stoopidity are killing our newsgroup!
See this, for instance: www.nbimcc.org/JCC/2007/JCC0756/JCC0756.pdf
Sez there (at the end, in the summary):
"Sourdough fermentation begins with aerobic growth immediately upon mixing flour and
water. Once oxygen is depleted, anaerobic fermentation begins with the growth of LAB.
LAB produce acids which enhance their rapid growth when the pH value has dropped too
low for other microorganisms to develop. So, the LAB become the most abundant micro-
organisms in the sourdough and they are the refore responsible for the final stages of the
sourdough processing."
BakerBoy
"Sam" <sdnews-inbox...@samartha.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.12.1208608087....@www.mountainbitwarrior.com...
There are several methods of processing "waste" water from homes. The
typical method is to use a septic system. The bacteria that populate that
system are anaerobic by specific selection. And no, you will not mess up
your septic system by dumping your excess starter. If anything, they'll be
just another excellent "food" source of those hard-working little critters
breaking down your waste. We've been using that kind of system for years...
Donno if this counts as an "authoritive" source or not:
http://www.keidel.com/resource/sewage/. But they continue with some really
"riveting" reading here: ... (:-o)!
http://www.keidel.com/resource/sewage/septic-care.htm
Enjoy!
Dusty -- enjoying the late-spring snow on the hills east of Everett, Wa.
...
Charlie Kroeger
> Are they? Any source you can quote to back this up?
>
> Sam
You could always have a read in the wikipedia, the 'living' encyclopedia
that's where I go for information.
What is it with this group is it a bunch of ignorant old men that dabble in
making bread, sure sounds like it.
--
CK
Charlie Kroeger
Adams, admit it, you're a stupid old fart, and unless you have the excuse of
suffering from some recent head injury, you were probably always this way.
I tell you another thing asshole, bet you wouldn't say that to my face.
--
CK
Mike Romain
Folks at cottages with septic systems that will be unused for a while
often pour yeast or buttermilk into the system to provide food for the
micro-organisms if nothing else while it isn't used.
Some folks think this will help lengthen the pump out times by keeping
the system active, but most studies I have seen don't think it helps on
always active systems. It at least won't hurt any systems.
Here are a couple WWW links that mention it for the folks that don't
believe anything they read on Usenet:
http://www.co.el-dorado.ca.us/EMD/envhealth/homeowner_septic.html
http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf942791.tip.html
Mike (who has installed more than one septic system)
Sam
I am asking YOU to back this up:
> The sourdough starter
> contains yeast and bacteria that are aerobic organisms, requires oxygen.
YOU made this claim and I would like to know where you got this from.
That's all.
If you can't provide a source and you just pulled it out of your head,
that's fine. Just say so and I go from there.
Sam
Dick Adams
"Charlie Kroeger" <ckr...@frankensteinface.com> wrote in message news:66un1pF...@mid.individual.net...
> Adams, admit it, you're a stupid old fart, and unless you have the excuse of
> suffering from some recent head injury, you were probably always this way.
>
> I tell you another thing asshole, bet you wouldn't say that to my face.
Be assured I would not take one step to be anywhere in the vicinity
of your face or any other member of your ugly anatomy, some of which
I might otherwise most joyously kick.
Charlie Kroeger" <ckr...@frankensteinface.com> wrote in message news:66teolF...@mid.individual.net...
> Septic tank bacteria is anaerobic i.e.no oxygen. The sourdough starter
> contains yeast and bacteria that are aerobic organisms, requires oxygen.
Common sourdough yeast is a facultative anaerobe. You can look that up
on WikiPedia. It means that the yeast can use oxygen, by can take it or
leave it, according to conditions. As far as the sourdough bacteria are
concerned, they are probably anaerobes, or mostly so. There are a bunch
of them. In unstirred starter or dough, conditions are undoubtedly anaerobic,
at least eventually.
Septic tanks are mostly offtopical here. But follow your instincts. If we
do not appreciate you, we can ignore you or killfile you, if, like some other
recent nuisances, chose to post offtopically several times each day.
In recent years, there were reports that the Jersey Devil cultured sourdough
starter in an abandoned commode he found on his grounds. Such use qualifies
the commode as topical. It is a subtle distinction. I doubt if you would
ever understand!
What happened to Jersey Devil? JD, are you out there still? Come back, we
need you now! We are being overflooded by a tsunami of assholes.
--
Dicky
td
heck up. My 7 year old nephew can have more adult like conversations
then you people.
In article <7LKOj.113973$D_3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Dick Adams
"td" <1...@456.789> wrote in message news:200420081212316973%1...@456.789...
> You are all a bunch of big smelly poo poo heads. All of you, grow the
> heck up. My 7 year old nephew can have more adult like conversations
> then you people.
An adult conversation would be good. Why don't you ("td") start?
Sourdough is a good topic for here.
Sam
All of you, grow the heck up:
> You are all a bunch of big smelly poo poo heads.
>
great shot in your own foot - congrats!
Sam
Sam
> Why are you posting CRAP?
>
>
I want to know where he got this from and the way you are posting, he'll
never tell anything, even if he has a source.
From my end - you blew it big time, because you are just not getting
it, you doofus!
Sam
TG
Ginger Porcocristo, DeserT DwelleR, Francesco, john and best of all
King Cunty,
whoever you are.
I think this sums up your adult posting.
Dick Adams
"Sam" <sdnews-inbox...@samartha.net> wrote in message news:mailman.17.1208757951....@www.mountainbitwarrior.com...
> Dick Adams wrote:
> > Why are you posting CRAP?
> I want to know where he got this from and the way you are posting, he'll
> never tell anything, even if he has a source.
I guess that means that you wanted Charlie Kroeger to tell you how he knows
that > yeast and bacteria ... are aerobic organisms, requires oxygen <.
Perhaps you sought to lead ol' Charlie to the path righteousness via gentle
Socratic interrogation?
Very likely he does not remember he ever said it.
> From my end - you blew it big time, because you are just not getting
> it, you doofus!
Oh well, I am stoopid just for being here any longer. Certainly it was
useless for me to post some relevant facts and a citation in refutation of
Charlie's erroneous statement, namely in:
news:7LKOj.113973$D_3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net and
news:XgmOj.110862$D_3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
'cause probably no one here anymore knows how to click up recent posts
from their news IDs, or how to find them in the Google archive once they have
decayed from the news servers.
The convention of posters mentioning exactly what they are attempting to
talk about seems also to be on the wane.
--
Dicky
Merryb
I do know what you mean- Rid-X, right? I'm just picturing this culture
GROWING- bubbles coming out of the ground- LOL!
Merryb
>
> Mike (who has installed more than one septic system)
Thank you for your reply!
Sam
> "Sam" <sdnews-inbox...@samartha.net> wrote in message news:mailman.17.1208757951....@www.mountainbitwarrior.com...
>
>
>> Dick Adams wrote:
>>
>>> Why are you posting CRAP?
>>>
>
>
>> I want to know where he got this from and the way you are posting, he'll
>> never tell anything, even if he has a source.
>>
>
> I guess that means that you wanted Charlie Kroeger to tell you how he knows
> that > yeast and bacteria ... are aerobic organisms, requires oxygen <.
>
> Perhaps you sought to lead ol' Charlie to the path righteousness via gentle
> Socratic interrogation?
>
If somebody says/writes something which is different from what you know,
aren't you curious where this is coming from?
Sam
Dick Adams
"Sam" <sdnews-inbox...@samartha.net> wrote in message news:mailman.18.1208840970....@www.mountainbitwarrior.com...
> If somebody says/writes something which is different from what you know,
> aren't you curious where this is coming from?
Oh, sure -- I get all curious when it's said the earth is flat.
Mike Romain
Sorry, I don't know what happened to that link, here is the corrected one:
http://www.co.el-dorado.ca.us/EMD/envhealth/homeowner_septic.html
Mike
Merryb
wrote:
> G'day Samartha & all;
>
>
> news:mailman.12.1208608087....@www.mountainbitwarrior.com...> Charlie Kroeger wrote:
> >> [..]
>
> >> Septic tank bacteria is anaerobic i.e.no oxygen. The sourdough starter
> >> contains yeast and bacteria that are aerobic organisms, requires oxygen.
>
> > Are they? Any source you can quote to back this up?
>
> There are several methods of processing "waste" water from homes. The
> typical method is to use a septic system. The bacteria that populate that
> system are anaerobic by specific selection. And no, you will not mess up
> your septic system by dumping your excess starter. If anything, they'll be
> just another excellent "food" source of those hard-working little critters
> breaking down your waste. We've been using that kind of system for years...
>
> Donno if this counts as an "authoritive" source or not:http://www.keidel.com/resource/sewage/. But they continue with some really
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Dusty -- enjoying the late-spring snow on the hills east of Everett, Wa.
> ...
Glad you're enjoying it- I'm soooo ready for spring to FINALLY get
here!
Merry in Gig Harbor
BakerBoy
news:488920d8-80b4-4ce7...@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
...
> Dusty -- enjoying the late-spring snow on the hills east of Everett, Wa.
...
Glad you're enjoying it- I'm soooo ready for spring to FINALLY get
here!
Merry in Gig Harbor
[Heh, heh, heh...truth be told, I wuz being somewhat 'tongue-in-cheek' with
that. It's nearly May, and I've had about all the snow I need... But
YMMV...(:-o)! -- Dusty]
td
In article
<68789f89-adcd-4048...@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, TG
Joe Umstead
Poulsbo, WA
Joe Umstead
BH
Hello to you peninsula folks from sunny (I wish) Lakewood.
Also ready for spring!
Burney
BakerBoy
Bakin' any good SD bread lately? Anything new or earthshaking coming from
your critters...?
L8r,
Dusty -- on a hill east of Everett
"BH" <ha...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:6kpu045lf0lhsk3n1...@4ax.com...
ass...@nospam.net
<Bake...@innerREMOVETHISlodge.com> wrote:
Good day, Friend!
Nothing unusual or exotic coming out of my kitchen these days. Just
my regular small, basic sourdough loaf and sourdough english muffins
lately, and of course pizza about once per week. I've also been
making pita, but, I've learned that, all things considered, I prefer
to make that with yeast. Sourdough works, but it just doesn't taste,
smell, and feel like pita to me. Pretty soon, I'm going to try naan
using the recipe in the YouTube video that was recently linked here.
It's basically the recipe I use for pita with yogurt, oil, and baking
powder added. It looks like fun and I've never had naan, so I'll try
it.
How about you? Baking anything new? Searching for land again now the
the snow is starting to clear?
My best to your lovely bride, please.
Later,
Burney
Lying Low in Lakewood
Merryb
wrote:
look forward to!
Merryb
>
> - Show quoted text -
I love the Harbor!
Merryb
>
> - Show quoted text -
So, any of you have a wood fired oven?
BH
BakerBoy
Dusty
"Merryb" <msg...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:7ed0c1d3-866d-424b...@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
...
Sam
When you write: "Jeez, you are beginning to act like Kenneth!" - it's
actually a compliment, thank you. I have high regards for Kenneth's
conduct on this news group.
Your "CRAP" remark - whatever you get out of it - have it.
I can do much better - beats many recent posts here:
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TG
On 23 Apr, 16:08, td <1...@456.789> wrote:
> Um, huh?
>
.....
Kenneth
<sdnews-inbox...@samartha.net> wrote:
>When you write: "Jeez, you are beginning to act like Kenneth!" - it's
>actually a compliment, thank you. I have high regards for Kenneth's
>conduct on this news group.
Hey Sam,
Thanks for the kind comment, (and I would certainly say the
same about what you offer here...)
All the best,
--
Kenneth
If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
Dick Adams
"Sam" <sdnews-inbox...@samartha.net> wrote in message news:mailman.19.1209021154....@www.mountainbitwarrior.com...
> ... Scenery unsurpassed will bristle's after whispers ...
> (u.s.w.)
Now you (Sam...) are stepping to the forefront for the ellucidation of standards
for indigent nOObie misbehavior. You were good before. But now --
WOW!
(Whatever he is smoking, can I get some of that?)
--
Dicky
Dick Adams
"Kenneth" <use...@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message news:14u0141at6nbi6nuk...@4ax.com...
> Hey Sam, Thanks for the kind comment, (and I would certainly
> say the same about what you offer here...)
Do you mean like all of the CRAP he just posted?
Namely:
Please see news:mailman.19.1209021154....@www.mountainbitwarrior.com
Hey Kenneth, when you write your next email to all of the new posters telling
them how to killfile me, be sure to tell them also they should not post crap like
Samartha is doing.
--
Dicky
Merryb
wrote:
Actually, I plan on building one. A few years ago, I had asked this
group, and a lovely person named Mary Fisher was kind enough to send
me pictures of the one she & her husband built. Someone had
recommended the book, "The Bread Builders", which I bought and will
use when I do it. Just trying to decide where the best place would be
to put it. Does she still post here?
BH
wrote:
I think the name "Mary Fisher" sounds familiar. I mostly monitor this
group and do very little posting, so I don't pay that much attention
to names of the posters.
I believe the topic of wood fired ovens comes up more frequently in
alt.bread.recipes Have you asked there?
When you get it built, I'd sure like to see it in operation!
Burney
Merryb
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks, and no, I didn't ask any other groups. When I get it built,
you are more than welcome to come and test it yourself. Actually, I'd
like to start a business with a wood oven where folks could come in &
do their own baking, and also do pizza parties. Kinda like a
commercial bakery, but along the lines of the dinners to go
idea...classes, too!
BH
wrote:
I think the business is a fantastic idea!
Brian Mailman
> "Kenneth" <use...@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message news:14u0141at6nbi6nuk...@4ax.com...
>> Hey Sam, Thanks for the kind comment, (and I would certainly
>> say the same about what you offer here...)
>
> Do you mean like all of the CRAP he just posted?
Search on "Hipcrime," "hipclone," and "Newsagent." I haven't looked,
but there may even be Wikipedia entries.
B/
Merryb
>
> - Show quoted text -
Do you really? Still tossin' it around in my head, but I think I can
come up with some kind of plan. I just wonder how many people would be
interested. It's definitely not something I've seen before, but I'd
hate to end up with a business that fails.
BH
wrote:
I was thinking more about this while mowing my lawn just now. What I
sort of envision is a small, park-like setting with a shelter, like
picnic shelters seen in parks, with electricity. The oven could be
under the shelter or just outside. I think the shelter might extend
your "season" by a couple of months, at least. I see a few picnic
tables that would seat 25-30 people. There would have to be running
water and a sink, probably with an on-demand water heater. There
would have to be at least basic "facilities" and a parking lot for a
couple dozen cars.
I think I would start marketing to birthday parties, small office
parties, etc. I think the idea of baking classes is good. You could
teach those yourself, and charge tuition of course, or rent the
facility to someone else to teach classes. You might get a community
college interested in offering the classes and renting the facility or
paying you to be the instructor. I think there would be quite a few
scout groups, church groups, etc., that would be interested in having
their events in a place like that. The problem with them might be
that would be unable, or hesitant, to pay a fee that would let you
make a buck. But, their members might be back for birthday parties,
too. It might be a promotional thing.
On the scale I am describing, I doubt it would ever be a big money
maker. But, you could get the oven, the shed, the tables, the wood
and everything else essentially paid for through tax deductions. If
you develop it "right" and in a good location, it could contribute to
the value of the property. I think if you were having an event, you'd
certainly have to fire up the oven well in advance to get the heat up
and stabilized. Then, I think you'd probably want to "test" it by
baking some of your own things before the customers arrived. (Do your
baking with fuel someone else pays for.) And, finally, operating the
facility could be a lot of fun as a spare-time pursuit.
What I envision could not be built where I live because of covenants
on the use of property. I might even get a lot of grief from the city
because of the wood smoke. We have a strictly enforced ban on "open
burning". I think the oven would not be considered "open", but that
might not prevent the fire department showing up every time they see,
or smell smoke. Over on the peninsula, you might have an easier time
finding a location where this could be done.
Does this describe something like what you had in mind, or were you
thinking of something entirely different?
Burney
Merryb
>
> - Show quoted text -
Pretty much! Dont't be stealin' my idea, now!!! LOL- Unless you're
rich & want to finance me! I do wonder what kind of grief the health
department would give. Where I live is outside the city limits. We are
on a septic tank, so I think that would be an issue. I do think the
oven would have to be indoors, as well as prep areas, but I like your
idea of the sheltered picnic areas. Hmmmmmmmmm............
BH
wrote:
LOL No, no worry about my stealing the idea, although it does sound
like fun. I'm enjoying retirement and have plenty of things to keep
me busy, already. And, regretfully, I'm not wealthy and looking for a
place to put venture capital. :-)
I doubt that the health department would be a great obstacle. The
septic tank might be a bigger problem, but, if it has enough capacity,
having a couple of dozen peope there for a few hours a couple of times
a week might not be too much for it. And, having it pumped might be
another deductible business expense, or at least partially. (I'm
sorry, buy I was an accountant and just can't get my mind off those
kinds of things.)
I was thinking of the shelter partly because I'm thinking that oven
would put off a LOT of heat and an open-sided shelter would allow the
heat to be carried off. But, I really don't know anything about them.
Maybe I'm wrong.
BTW, Mary Fisher posted something to alt.bread.recipes this morning. I
thought I had seen that name!
Burney
Kenneth
Hi Merry,
Have you ever seen the Seinfeld episode in which Kramer
wants to have a "Bake it yourself" pizza business...?
It's worth a look,
Merryb
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> - Show quoted text -
Well, if it ever pans out, you can be among the first to test it out!
I worked in a restaurant in Tacoma (Primo Grill) that had a wood oven,
and got some experience using that. I really appreciate all of your
imput- it's nice to hear ideas from others.
Merryb
wrote:
I vaguely remember that episode- guess I'll look for it! Thanks!!
Derek Lyons
>Do you really? Still tossin' it around in my head, but I think I can
>come up with some kind of plan. I just wonder how many people would be
>interested. It's definitely not something I've seen before, but I'd
>hate to end up with a business that fails.
Speaking as someone who has started and ran a couple of businesses...
You really should be prepared to fail, the mortality rate among new
businesses is very high - and very near unity when it comes to food
related businesses. There really isn't a 'sure thing'.
Insofar as cooling the area around the oven, I'd go for some form of
forced ventilation myself - as the problem 'round here (I live in
Bremerton) isn't just the cool temperatures but the wind.
I've seen references to natural gas fired ovens, which means no smoke
for the county to get all upset over.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
Merryb
Thank you for your opinion. Yes, I would plan on failing as I know the
percentages would not be swinging in my direction. I guess that's why
I still have my office job!!!