Should my starter be stringy?
smdgl
wonder if it is eating gluten.
I feed my starter with KA all-purpose flour, and it is not stringy.
This morning I built a sponge with 1/4 c. starter (straight from the
fridge), 2/3 c. water, and 3/4 c. bread flour. I tried to beat it
vigorously. After about 6.5 hours of proofing at room temp (~69 deg.
F), I had a lot of bubbles and some foam. The sponge was about the
same consistency (maybe a little runnier) than when I mixed it. It was
not at all stringy.
Should it be stringy from the gluten web forming, or is it OK if it is
just a batter consistency?
Cherie in IL
Mike Avery
>Should it be stringy from the gluten web forming, or is it OK if it is
>just a batter consistency?
>
>
It's not necessary to beat it vigorously. Just mixing it is fine.
And, it normally isn't stringy. It's normally more like a batter,
depending on how wet the starter is. If it's a very dry mix, it might
well be stringy for a while. But most folks here have a wetter starter,
so it's not at all stringy.
Mike
Kenneth
Howdy,
I keep my (KA fed) Poilâne and Wood S.F. starters at 100%
hydration, and as they become active they both have huge
bubbles and a texture that I would describe as "stringy."
This may be nothing more than a semantic problem.
If I pour the very active starter from one container to
another, the bubbles burst (momentarily) leaving the "web"
that contained them. That web definitely appears as a
network of "strings" to me.
All the best,
--
Kenneth
If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
Brian Mailman
> I keep my ...Wood S.F. starters at 100% hydration, and as they become
> active they both have huge bubbles and a texture that I would
> describe as "stringy." This may be nothing more than a semantic
> problem.
I wonder what nabe the good Dr. Wood got it from. The Duboce Triangle
starter (surrounded by the Castro, Buena Vista, Hayes Valley, Mint Hill
and Mission Dolores nabes) just bubbles. No strings.
B/
Kenneth
Hi Brian,
I wonder if it does not have more to do with the flour than
the starter...
Dick Adams
"Kenneth" <use...@SPAMLESSsoleassociates.com> wrote in message news:7chg219fivh7bl3mn...@4ax.com...
> I wonder if it does not have more to do with the flour than
> the starter...
I wonder if it does not have more to do with idiots* writing on
walls than with bread.
(Yeah, yeah, like me ... you got me there, you other idiots!)
Well, then, let me ask you this?
Should these stupid threads be stringy?
--
DickA
Brian Mailman
> On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 17:33:44 -0800, Brian Mailman
> <bmai...@sfo.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Kenneth wrote:
>>
>>> I keep my ...Wood S.F. starters at 100% hydration, and as they become
>>> active they both have huge bubbles and a texture that I would
>>> describe as "stringy." This may be nothing more than a semantic
>>> problem.
>>
>>I wonder what nabe the good Dr. Wood got it from. The Duboce Triangle
>>starter (surrounded by the Castro, Buena Vista, Hayes Valley, Mint Hill
>>and Mission Dolores nabes) just bubbles. No strings.
> I wonder if it does not have more to do with the flour than
> the starter...
I feed it with plain ol' Safeway house brand all purpose (12% gluten)
... it's probably got a bit of Safeway house brand whole wheat and
Stonebuhr unbleached bread flour in it as well.
My point is that this is how rumors get started, and someone with a
by-rote bent may think from your posting that if their "SF" starter
isn't stringy they're doing something wrong.
B/
Kenneth
<bmai...@sfo.invalid> wrote:
H9i Brian,
I don't have any idea what you are talking about...
Brian Mailman
> On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 10:49:50 -0800, Brian Mailman
> <bmai...@sfo.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Kenneth wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 17:33:44 -0800, Brian Mailman
>>> <bmai...@sfo.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Kenneth wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I keep my ...Wood S.F. starters at 100% hydration, and as they become
>>>>> active they both have huge bubbles and a texture that I would
>>>>> describe as "stringy." This may be nothing more than a semantic
>>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>>I wonder what nabe the good Dr. Wood got it from. The Duboce Triangle
>>>>starter (surrounded by the Castro, Buena Vista, Hayes Valley, Mint Hill
>>>>and Mission Dolores nabes) just bubbles. No strings.
>>
>> > I wonder if it does not have more to do with the flour than
>>> the starter...
>>
>>I feed it with plain ol' Safeway house brand all purpose (12% gluten)
>>... it's probably got a bit of Safeway house brand whole wheat and
>>Stonebuhr unbleached bread flour in it as well.
>>
>>My point is that this is how rumors get started, and someone with a
>>by-rote bent may think from your posting that if their "SF" starter
>>isn't stringy they're doing something wrong.
> H9i Brian,
>
> I don't have any idea what you are talking about...
Re-read what you wrote....
b/
Kenneth
Hi Brian,
I just re-read what I wrote.
I do not have the slightest idea what you are responding to
and I have little interest in playing a guessing game.
Might you tell me what this is about?
Sincere thanks,
Brian Mailman
> On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 13:51:33 -0800, Brian Mailman
> <bmai...@sfo.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Re-read what you wrote....
> Hi Brian,
>
> I just re-read what I wrote.
>
> I do not have the slightest idea what you are responding to
> and I have little interest in playing a guessing game.
>
> Might you tell me what this is about?
Around here at Chez When I'm often accused of being too subtle. I guess
you saying that Ed Woods' SF starter is stringy and my objections
whooshed over.
B/
Kenneth
<bmai...@sfo.invalid> wrote:
Hi Brian,
Have a great evening,
Breadman
>
> This morning I built a sponge with 1/4 c. starter (straight from the
> fridge), 2/3 c. water, and 3/4 c. bread flour. >
> Should it be stringy from the gluten web forming, or is it OK if it
is
> just a batter consistency?
>
>
> Cherie in IL
Hey Cherie,
Lets do some math, ok?
2/3c water is approx. 150ml of water and 3/4c bread flour is
approx.100g flour. That gives you an hydration of 150% which means that
you are using a very wet starter.
Try using equal amounts BY WEIGHT of flour and water, maybe half a cup
of water and a little less then 1 cup of flour.
try it and see what happens...
Happy baking
Amit
Roy
>My starter is from KA, and is about 2 months old. I'm starting to
>wonder if it is eating gluten.
>I feed my starter with KA all-purpose flour, and it is not stringy.
>vigorously. After about 6.5 hours of proofing at room temp (~69 deg.
>F), I had a lot of bubbles and some foam. The sponge was about the
>same consistency (maybe a little runnier) than when I mixed it. It
was
>not at all stringy.
>just a batter consistency?
>Cherie in IL
Do not be worried about stringiness it will not affect its performance
in the end product. It just makes it difficult to decant or transfer
from one container to another.
>Lets do some math, ok?
>2/3c water is approx. 150ml of water and 3/4c bread flour is
>approx.100g flour. That gives you an hydration of 150% which means
that
>you are using a very wet starter.
>Try using equal amounts BY WEIGHT of flour and water, maybe half a cup
>of water and a little less then 1 cup of flour.
>try it and see what happens...
>From my observation with a French levain that is bulk fermenting
(about 100-200 galloons of starter in one just one stainless steel
tub) if I dip my palm into that starter and bring it up a webby and
stringy muck will stick to my hands.
That means ( in t his particular bakery) that the starter still
needs more fermentation to be fully mature.. Even at 100-120 %
hydration if the starter is just starting to mature its shows some
stringiness. But when it reaches its peak it tends to lose its stringy
quality and tend to flow out smoothly in the plumbing and into the
mixer bowl with must minimal tailings.
If you dip a cup, a pail, or any vessel ( on a stringy starter) you
will notice that you will have some slight difficulty filling the
vessel and the starter when poured tends to 'tail' a lot making it
difficult to transfer from one container to the other. With lots of
starter residues remaining on the decanting vessel.( cup or pail)
At that stringy stage we stir it up( mechanically) to aerate it and
then subject that to immediate refrigeration to slow down the
fermentative activity and help conserve its nutrients needed for an
extended but slowed fermentation.
Even if the yeast are supposed to be active even in anerobic conditions
in the sourdough starter the inclusion of air tends to invigorate it.
With such method we can feed the starter only once a day without
losing its vigorous fermentative activity.
The only party that is worried about the stringiness are the cleaners
as there are more muck to be cleaned up from the equipment after each
period of baking operation.
Roy
smdgl
Sounds great, I was a math major!
>2/3c water is approx. 150ml of water and 3/4c bread flour is
approx.100g flour. That gives you an hydration of 150% which means that
you are using a very wet starter.
Try using equal amounts BY WEIGHT of flour and water, maybe half a cup
of water and a little less then 1 cup of flour.
I try to keep my starter at approx. 100% hydration (but I don't weigh
ingredients). I read somewhere (?) that to convert a yeast bread
recipe to sourdough, you should build your sponge with all of the
liquid and about 25% of the flour. That's where the 2/3 c. water and
3/4 c. flour.
Would you (or anyone else) disagree with this advice for converting a
yeast bread recipe to sourdough?
Cherie in IL
Roy
smdgl wrote:
>
> I try to keep my starter at approx. 100% hydration (but I don't weigh
> ingredients). I read somewhere (?) that to convert a yeast bread
> recipe to sourdough, you should build your sponge with all of the
> liquid and about 25% of the flour. That's where the 2/3 c. water and
> 3/4 c. flour.
Let's see 2/3 cup water,...... that is around 150 grams of water and
¾ cup flour is 100 grams .If summed up that will be 250 grams.
Therefore with true percent calculation : you have a ratio of 40% flour
and 60% water. Not 25% flour and 75% water that you expected.
Or if you base your calculation bakers percent( or flour basis) on
starter flour that will be 150% hydration, rather too thin for a
liquid sourdough starter. This if you are using all purpose flour or
any medium gluten breadmaking flour.
Normally it should be up to 120% hydration. Or if using the existing
quantity of flour at 100 grams( ¾ cup) , you need only a maximum of
120 grams of water ( slightly more than half a cup of water).
Take into consideration the different density of water and flour .
However if you are using high gluten flour that may make sense as that
particular flour has a higher hydration requirements.
> Would you (or anyone else) disagree with this advice for converting a
> yeast bread recipe to sourdough?
Hmmn for me it does not matter.... But....
I anticipate a lot of the regulars (i.e.,hard core natural sourdough
bakers) of this group would be pleased if you convert a normal yeast
raised recipe to natural sourdough; but not the other way
around,converting a natural sourdough to bakers yeast raised bread
specimen.
Roy
Dusty
smdgl wrote:
...
> you are using a very wet starter.
> Try using equal amounts BY WEIGHT of flour and water, maybe half a cup
> of water and a little less then 1 cup of flour.
>
> I try to keep my starter at approx. 100% hydration (but I don't weigh
> ingredients). I read somewhere (?) that to convert a yeast bread
Yep. Same as I do it. And it seems to be working just fine for me...
> recipe to sourdough, you should build your sponge with all of the
> liquid and about 25% of the flour. That's where the 2/3 c. water and
> 3/4 c. flour.
Yep. Also what I'd "learned," and now do that for all of my sourdough
recipes.
> Would you (or anyone else) disagree with this advice for converting a
> yeast bread recipe to sourdough?
Besides this sponge step, you can safely remove the sugar or honey that's
needed by the yeasts for food. If they're a flavor item for you (as opposed
to yeast food), then introduce them into the final mixing.
As for the sponge step method; there seem to be about as many "methods" out
there as there are SD bakers--me included! I adopted the multi-step sponge
method because, like Dick's "Billowy Sourdough" recipe, it gives such
consistent, dramatic results. If you want an even more exacting and
protracted sponge build, use the one Samartha has on his site. That sucker
will guarantee results...even for starters "circling-the-drain."
I suspect that most folks building SD breads have starters that are not at
optimum. If you're not an experienced SD baker, that's more likely to be
the case than it is for it to be fresh and ready to go. If your starter is
in absolutely top condition, then doing a multi-step sponge is generally
(except for the flavors that can engender) a waste of time. However, most
are not. So doing the multi-step sponge is an excellent way to get it up to
speed and working as it should.
Since doing a multi-step sponge when it's not needed doesn't matter, I've
just made it my habit and method to always do it. Can't screw things up
that way, and it permits me to better schedule the finish that way.
I convert each recipe I find to a multi-step sponge. Using, as you'd
described it, all of the liquid in the first step. The only exceptions I
have to that are the Dick's Billowy recipe, and my Coccodrillo recipe. The
original recipe I converted used a three-step sponge from yeast. Since it
can't hurt, I left it that way. Works just fine--and I daresay even better
than my 2-step.
If the recipe came from yeast (and most do), I also remove the yeast food
(sugars). Then, the actual final dough I tune because the activity of the
sourdough mixture, the bacteria, and the enzymes all contribute to alter the
final "wetness" of the dough. By carefully monitoring those, I adjust the
flour a bit to get the final quantities, and make the breads that we like.
Tonight, along with some CB&C (Corned Beef & Cabbage), we're going to be
polishing off the last couple of loaves of the Coccodrillo that I made a few
days ago.
Oops! Got interrupted by company...and now it's the next morning. Later
all!
Dusty
San Jose, Ca.
http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Bread/Sourdough/
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