Tipping at a restaurant

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Jeanne F. Leonard

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May 30, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/30/95
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melroy dsouza (mds...@eng.clemson.edu) wrote:
: What would be an acceptable amount to tip at a restaurant? I know it's around
: 15% if no service charge is added and then the rest depends on the type of service
: rendered. However, does this apply to student couples with a shoestring budget who might want to try something special once in a while? So, if your bill is, say $ 35 for two people would I be expected to tip the waiter or waitress $ 5?

: Your responses or comments are appreciated.

: Melroy


I'm curious how you've been dealing with this issue up 'til now?
Are you not from the States?

It's really all up to you. Some will say that yes, it applies to
you (the 15%), and that it isn't the server's fault that you don't have a
lot of money, so you shouldn't take it out on him/her. Others will say
that you have every right to tip poorly, and that this entire restaurant
gratuity system is messed up and that we pay too much for service.

I am in the middle.


I do agree that we should do away with tipping as we know it and
simply add service into the bill. I am a food server and happen to love
waiting tables, and don't do it as much for the money as I do for the
crazy fast pace.

But service is not added into the bill, and while we may not like
this, if we protest it by not paying it, we are only hurting one
individual, and not really challenging the system.

I say if you want to tip ten percent or less, do it. Just know that
most servers aren't very kind about this. MOst servers do not like
their jobs and only show up for the good tips, and consider bad tippers
not to be worthy customers. So if you are going to tip poorly, maybe
don't go back to the same place twice, unless you don't mind really bad
service. I would say that you might want to tell your server that you
really don't have lots of money, therefore you can't tip well, but
chances are, he/she will not be understanding. (I once had two very young
women come in and tell me this after the meal, and I was elated to know
that it wasn't me, and didn't mind not getting a tip at all. They were
very nice people and I enjoyed waiting on them.)

While I don't at all mind waiting on people who are bad tippers
(provided they are decent/nice), I do mind going *out* with bad tippers.
I know too many people who are in school and on a budget. When I go out
with them, I think that they are cheap b/c the tip usually isn't more
than five to ten bucks (for them), and I see how they spend their money,
and I know that they want to buy a new c.d. for their collection, and I
think it quite rude of them to use that money on themselves when they
just let someone run his/her butt off for them. I don't go out to eat
with people who don't tip, and when they invite me, I tell them no, and I
tell them why.I was a student on a budget once, now I am a server who
makes $600.00 a month at best. I have bills too. I have a tooth rotting
in my mouth because I can't afford to go to the dentist just yet. So I
guess you could say that I'm on a bit of a budget too. But what I do
about eating out is, I don't go out to eat if I don't have
enough money for a tip. I order a carry-out. If I want to eat *in* the
restaurant, I have to pay for that experience and everything that goes
with it. That's how I view it in my personal life. In my work life, I
don't care much what people tip, because it always, *always* comes out well
at the end of the day. I always carry home 15% (and usually more) of
what I ring.

So do what you want with tipping. But yes, most servers in most
restaurants will expect 15% tips.

Jeanne

melroy dsouza

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May 30, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/30/95
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Varda Ullman Novick

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May 31, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/31/95
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melroy dsouza (mds...@eng.clemson.edu) wrote:
: What would be an acceptable amount to tip at a restaurant? I know it's around

: 15% if no service charge is added and then the rest depends on the type of service
: rendered. However, does this apply to student couples with a shoestring budget who might want to try something special once in a while? So, if your bill is, say $ 35 for two people would I be expected to tip the waiter or waitress $ 5?

The way I look at it, one has to "think" of every price on the menu as
costing an additional 15-ish% (less for poor service, more for great
service). That waiter (I use that non-gender specific word for both
women and men) might also be a student on a shoestring budget, or a single
mom trying to support a family. In any case, he or she is earning only
$2 or $3 per hour (if that much) and almost totally depends on tips
for salary. I know it's hard to budget for the extra money, but you'd
have to pay it if every restaurant built-in a price increase in order
to pay their waiters a decent wage, as they do in Europe and elsewhere.

Varda Ullman Novick
vuno...@netcom.com


Eric Scott Boltz

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May 31, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/31/95
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In article <3qg5m1$g...@hubcap.clemson.edu> mds...@eng.clemson.edu writes:
>What would be an acceptable amount to tip at a restaurant? I know it's around
>15% if no service charge is added and then the rest depends on the type of service
>rendered. However, does this apply to student couples with a shoestring budget who might want to try something special once in a while? So, if your bill is, say $ 35 for two people would I be expected to tip the waiter or waitress $ 5?

Of course it does. Most waitstaff have to declare at least 12.5% in
tips income. They are one of the few groups of people who are legally
paid *below* minimum wage. If you get good service and don't tip
appropriately you can expect to get poor service in the future and
you will have deserved it.

Just so you know, most grad students get a stipend that is about what
the average waitperson makes in a year.

-E


Andy Pforzheimer

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May 31, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/31/95
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In article <3qg5m1$g...@hubcap.clemson.edu>, melroy dsouza (mds...@eng.clemson.edu) writes:
>What would be an acceptable amount to tip at a restaurant? I know it's around
>15% if no service charge is added and then the rest depends on the type of service
>rendered. However, does this apply to student couples with a shoestring budget who might want to try something special once in a while? So, if your bill is, say $ 35 for two people would I be expected to tip the waiter or waitress $ 5?
>
>Your responses or comments are appreciated.
>
>Melroy

If your bill is $35, you should probably tip $5 for average
service, $7 for excellent service, and $8 or $9 for a situation
where the waiter went out of their way.

The rules apply to starving students. Even though I'm the first
to stiff a truly lousy waiter, I do agree that if you can't afford
the extra two bucks for a standard tip you should probably eat
somewhere else.

APforz


>
>
>
>
>


LizR

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May 31, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/31/95
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>melroy dsouza (mds...@eng.clemson.edu) wrote:
>: What would be an acceptable amount to tip at a restaurant? I know it's around

>: 15% if no service charge is added and then the rest depends on the type of service
>: rendered. However, does this apply to student couples with a shoestring budget who
>might want to try something special once in a while? So, if your bill is, say
>$ 35 for two people would I be expected to tip the waiter or waitress $ 5?


Actually, you'd be expected to pay $5.25 ;>. That's 15%. I don't see why
being a student would excuse you from tipping the proper amount. After all,
you can't go into a store and say "I'm a student" and expect to pay less for
food or clothes. Tipping is part of the cost of eating out. Keep in mind
that most servers make $2.01 an hour and the rest of their wage is tips.

Think of it as if your boss came up to you and said "I'm a little short on
my bills this month so I can only afford to pay you 80% of your salary."
You'd be pretty mad and rightly so. To me, not tipping is the same thing -
the servers make less than minimum wage because it's expected that their tips
will balance things out. I hate to be harsh, but I feel that if you really
can't afford to tip, then you shouldn't eat out. Of course, bad service is a
different matter entirely, but otherwise there is no special "student
exemption".

LizR

Phyllis Bruce

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May 31, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/31/95
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In article <3qg5m1$g...@hubcap.clemson.edu>, mds...@eng.clemson.edu (melroy dsouza) says:
>
>What would be an acceptable amount to tip at a restaurant? I know it's around
>15% if no service charge is added and then the rest depends on the type of service
>rendered. However, does this apply to student couples with a shoestring budget who might want to try something special once in a while? So, if your bill

Basically what I do is double the amount of tax on the bill (in California where
I live it's 7.75%) and this is what I leave for a tip. This way
you are not tipping on the TOTAL which includes tax. I think you should
only tip on the food total, not food + tax. What kind of service does
tax provide?
Phyllis

Eric Scott Boltz

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Jun 1, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/1/95
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In article <3qj7lc$a...@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> djk <dj...@columbia.edu> writes:
>This is absolutely untrue. The stipend that most grad students receive
>is generally just a few thousand dollars a year. Even a bad server in a
>moderately priced restaurant can certainly expect to earn more than
>this.

Let's see...at CU the stipends are about 12k, at Hopkins, about 17k,
at OU, about 14k...sorry, but that's about what severs make.

(Maybe TA stipends or some such are much lower, I don't know).

-E


Eric Scott Boltz

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Jun 1, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/1/95
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In article <3qkikd$s...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> ebo...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Eric Scott Boltz) writes:
>In article <3qj7lc$a...@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> djk <dj...@columbia.edu> writes:
>>This is absolutely untrue. The stipend that most grad students receive
>>is generally just a few thousand dollars a year. Even a bad server in a
>
>Let's see...at CU the stipends are about 12k, at Hopkins, about 17k,
>at OU, about 14k...sorry, but that's about what severs make.

Oops! I forgot to factor in *tuitions*...that make the Hopkins
stipend+tuition around $37k.

-E

nelg...@delphi.com

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Jun 1, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/1/95
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Jeanne, you are a wise woman.


djk

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Jun 1, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/1/95
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ebo...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Eric Scott Boltz) wrote:

>Just so you know, most grad students get a stipend that is about what
>the average waitperson makes in a year.
>
>-E
>

This is absolutely untrue. The stipend that most grad students receive

is generally just a few thousand dollars a year. Even a bad server in a

moderately priced restaurant can certainly expect to earn more than
this.

djk

djk

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Jun 1, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/1/95
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ebo...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Eric Scott Boltz) wrote:

>>
>>Let's see...at CU the stipends are about 12k, at Hopkins, about 17k,
>>at OU, about 14k...sorry, but that's about what severs make.
>
>Oops! I forgot to factor in *tuitions*...that make the Hopkins
>stipend+tuition around $37k.
>
>-E
>

First of all, contributions towards tuition are NOT the same thing as
stipends. A stipend is money that your EARN by teaching or doing
research for the university at which you are studying. Some (but by no
means all) grad students are lucky enough to get either a full or partial
waiver of their tuition. While the students who receive this money
probably wouldn't be able to attend the university without this
assistance, it absolutely is NOT the same thing as having disposable
income. In fact, it's not like income of any kind, since you never
actually see this money and it in no way effects your standard of living
or quality of life. Effectively, tuition waivers are simply a "discount"
in the cost of your tuition.

I don't know what sort of financial package you recieve, but at Columbia
most graduate students don't even qualify to teach (and thus earn a
stipend) until they have received their masters. Since it generally
takes two years to complete the course work needed to get a masters, many
grad students don't even begin getting stipends until there third year. I
really don't wish to get into a yelling match over who is financially
better off, waiters or graduate students. I simply wish to assert that,
by and large, grad students are not an affluent group.

But, getting back to the initial point of this thread, none of this
absolves students from having to leave an appropriate tip (15-20%) when
they dine out. If you can't afford to tip a server, you should probably
eat at home. Even if the custom of tipping was eliminated, it would
still be substantially cheaper to cook for yourself.

djk


Mitch

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Jun 2, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/2/95
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Who gives a shit about your budget? If you can't tip reasonably for
good service (assuming that's what you receive), then eat somewhere with
lower meal prices. Don't screw the waiter or waitress because you wanted
to dine beyond your means. Besides, you may just as easily end up making
yourself look bad to your date if she sees that you're too cheap to leave
a fair tip -- might undermine the point of taking her there.

-- Mitch

Laura Hoey (sounds like joey)

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Jun 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/3/95
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phy...@ucrac1.ucr.edu (Phyllis Bruce) wrote:

Sorry, I have to disagree. What kind of service does a baked potato
provide? When you go to have your hair styled and the hairdresser says
"That'll be $25, do you ask him/her to seperate out the tax so you
know you're not tipping on it? Also, when you go to another city
where sales tax is 9% or more, do you then double it? 15% on the total
bill is what's expected.

Laura


djk

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Jun 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/3/95
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ho...@ix.netcom.com (Laura Hoey (sounds like joey)) wrote:
>
>Sorry, I have to disagree. What kind of service does a baked potato
>provide? When you go to have your hair styled and the hairdresser says
>"That'll be $25, do you ask him/her to seperate out the tax so you
>know you're not tipping on it? Also, when you go to another city
>where sales tax is 9% or more, do you then double it? 15% on the total
>bill is what's expected.
>
>Laura
>

No, I disagree. I live in NYC where the sales tax is 8.25%. It is
common practice here when calculating a tip to simply double the tax. I
spent almost ten years working in restaurants and and no server I ever
spoke to expected to recieve a tip on the post-tax bill. The doubling
of the tax method is, of course, only a rule of thumb. In NYC, at
least, what is expected is a tip of between 15-20% on the pre-tax cost
of the meal.

Part of the reason that it is imperative to tip a server is that Federal
government assumes that they are receiving a tip on X% of their total
sales, and consequently, servers must pay income tax on this sum. While
I'm not sure of all the details, I do know that the amount of taxes owed
(by the server) depends on the sum of sales calculated BEFORE sales tax
is added. This is because the gov't does not expect that customeres
will tip their servers on the total bill, but only on the cost of the
food/bevarage.

What is the proper procedure when the bill includes a very expensive
bottle of wine? Lets say that you have dinner for four in an upscale
restaurant where the meal is price-fixed at $60/person. The couple you
are dining with is celebrating their aniversary, and you wind up
drinking a bottle of Cristal with your appetizers and then a
ridiculously expensive Burgundy with the main course. With desert, the
four of you split a half bottle of Chateau d'Yquem. In total, the wine
you consumed costs twice as much as the food you ate. Do you still tip
15%? I probably would, but I've heard others assert that tipping a full
15% on the cost of wine is unnecessary. Any thoughts?

djk

Albert Nurick

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Jun 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/3/95
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In article <3qpi24$s...@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,

ho...@ix.netcom.com (Laura Hoey (sounds like joey)) wrote:
>phy...@ucrac1.ucr.edu (Phyllis Bruce) wrote:

>Sorry, I have to disagree. What kind of service does a baked potato
>provide? When you go to have your hair styled and the hairdresser says
>"That'll be $25, do you ask him/her to seperate out the tax so you
>know you're not tipping on it? Also, when you go to another city
>where sales tax is 9% or more, do you then double it? 15% on the total
>bill is what's expected.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. 15% of the total *food* bill should go to the
waiter; more if the service is exceptional, less if the services is
substandard (and if less, a chat with management is often in order).

Unless the waiter handles the wine, the sommillier (sp?) should receive the
tip for recommending and serving the wine.

And *no one* should be tipped for the tax... if you really feel that the
state government has done an exceptional job, buy a few lottery tickets. :-)

| Albert Nurick | "In case of doubt, decide in |
| alb...@tech.net | favor of what is correct." |
| http://www.tech.net/~albert | |
| http://www.tech.net | - Karl Kraus |

Jack and Kay Hartman

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Jun 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/4/95
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In <3qq786$gio...@aip.realtime.net> alb...@tech.net (Albert Nurick)
writes:
>
>Sorry, but I have to disagree. 15% of the total *food* bill should go
>to the
>waiter;
..

>And *no one* should be tipped for the tax...

I usually find that the difference in the amount of money involved in
tipping on the total bill (tax included) and tipping on the food bill
is inconsequential. This money is more meaningful to the server than
it is to me. Lighten up and give your server a break. I am sure that
if I am ever so strapped (as I have been in the past) that I cannot see
my way to tip on the total bill I will not be eating in restaurants.

Kay

Michael Levine

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Jun 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/4/95
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just remember that tips = TO INSURE PROMPT SERVICE

and tip according to the service received


melroy dsouza

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Jun 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/4/95
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Jsut wanted to clarify things!! I have received "quite a lot" of replies to my
original posting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>What would be an acceptable amount to tip at a restaurant? I know it's around
>>15% if no service charge is added and then the rest depends on the type of service
>>rendered. However, does this apply to student couples with a shoestring budget who might want to try something special once in a while? So, if your bill

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I normally, DO tip 15% or more. However, I just wanted to know the general opinion
on this subject as I am originally not from the USA. Thanks for the input/comments,
both "volatile" and "non-volatile"!! :-))


Melroy

Varda Ullman Novick

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Jun 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/4/95
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Laura Hoey (sounds like joey) (ho...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: I still ask, in places where the tax is included, do *you* ask for the
: tax to be seperated so you're sure you're not tipping on it? TACKY

I believe that your restaurant check legally has to show the tax
separately; I've never seen one that doesn't show the tax. In Los
Angeles, unless the service is super or below-par, most people double
the tax (8-1/4%) to arrive at the amount of the tip.

Varda
vuno...@netcom.com

Eric Scott Boltz

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Jun 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/5/95
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In article <3qq786$gio...@aip.realtime.net> alb...@tech.net (Albert Nurick) writes:
>Sorry, but I have to disagree. 15% of the total *food* bill should go to the
>
>Unless the waiter handles the wine, the sommillier (sp?) should receive the
>tip for recommending and serving the wine.

It's called "tipping out" and what it means is the servers tip all the
support people (bussers, hosts, even kitchen) at the end of the
shift. It often amounts to about 1/3 of the server's tips.

-E

Jack and Kay Hartman

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Jun 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/5/95
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In <vunovickD...@netcom.com> vuno...@netcom.com (Varda Ullman

Novick) writes:
>
>In Los
>Angeles, unless the service is super or below-par, most people double
>the tax (8-1/4%) to arrive at the amount of the tip.

In Los Angeles some people double the tax. Most people leave 15% on
the total bill. I usually find the difference here to be one of two
things; poor arithmetic skills or lack of class.

Kay

Message has been deleted

Laura Hoey (sounds like joey)

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Jun 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/5/95
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>>Sorry, I have to disagree. What kind of service does a baked potato
>>provide? When you go to have your hair styled and the hairdresser says
>>"That'll be $25, do you ask him/her to seperate out the tax so you
>>know you're not tipping on it? Also, when you go to another city
>>where sales tax is 9% or more, do you then double it? 15% on the total
>>bill is what's expected.

>Sorry, but I have to disagree. 15% of the total *food* bill should go to the

>waiter; more if the service is exceptional, less if the services is
>substandard (and if less, a chat with management is often in order).

I still ask, in places where the tax is included, do *you* ask for the

The Snook Fisherman - pier ph# (813) 347-9749

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Jun 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/5/95
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How much should I tip when I use a coupon to get a substancial
discount on the meal(s)? i.e. 15% of the total before the
discount or 15% after the discount.

bdp
--Please followup, do not reply by e-mail

hsch...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

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Jun 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/6/95
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Eric Scott Boltz (ebo...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu) wrote:
: In article <3qq786$gio...@aip.realtime.net> alb...@tech.net (Albert Nurick) writes:

: >Unless the waiter handles the wine, the sommillier (sp?) should receive the

: >tip for recommending and serving the wine.

: It's called "tipping out" and what it means is the servers tip all the
: support people (bussers, hosts, even kitchen) at the end of the
: shift. It often amounts to about 1/3 of the server's tips.

Although I don't think 250-300% markup on wine is quite fair.. I DO
think that the job of the sommelier is a much more difficult one.
Sommeliers are in charge of a substantial investment, and their
expertise is built up over years of study. I always tip well for good
wine service, which includes the recommendation.
Restaurants can better help their staff by having BETTER wine
lists. By better, I don't expect them to include the latest
Mondave/Rothschild releases or 1990 Margauxs. All that's needed is the
stuff that's normally printed on the label.. like, the _year_ would be
nice! Anyway, it always ticks me off when I ask for more information..
one waitress once told me that pinot grigio was a white wine.. hmm.
Needless to say, I didn't tip her well at all.
Also, quality of food matters too. One restaurant blatantly lied
in their menu. They served an Alfredo sauce made with flour.. for this,
I did not tip well either. Ever order calamari _rings_ that were more
squid scraps than rings? Or an overdone steak? Granted, this is not the
server's fault, but it sure makes the experience unpleasant, and I don't
feel like tipping when I'm in a bad mood.

Kuan

David John Spencer

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Jun 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/6/95
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In article <1995Jun5.141507.235@lrc> persh...@lrc.edu (The Snook Fisherman - pier ph# (813) 347-9749) writes:
>How much should I tip when I use a coupon to get a substancial
>discount on the meal(s)? i.e. 15% of the total before the
>discount or 15% after the discount.

Apply your tip to the BEFORE discount total.

--spencer


LizR

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Jun 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/6/95
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In article <1995Jun5.141507.235@lrc> persh...@lrc.edu (The Snook Fisherman - pier ph# (813) 347-9749) writes:
>How much should I tip when I use a coupon to get a substancial
>discount on the meal(s)? i.e. 15% of the total before the
>discount or 15% after the discount.

15% BEFORE the discount. The fact that you have a coupon does not diminish
the amount you need to tip. Many coupon books such as passbook have reminders
that you need to tip 15% to 20% of the original total. With the Passbook I
get 20% off my meal so I usually just tip that amount or a little less if
service has been poor.

LizR

LizR

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Jun 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/6/95
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In article <3r1hle$5...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> hsch...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes:
> Also, quality of food matters too. One restaurant blatantly lied
>in their menu. They served an Alfredo sauce made with flour.. for this,
>I did not tip well either. Ever order calamari _rings_ that were more
>squid scraps than rings? Or an overdone steak? Granted, this is not the
>server's fault, but it sure makes the experience unpleasant, and I don't
>feel like tipping when I'm in a bad mood.


That's when you take it up with management. If your steak is overdone, they
either need to give you a new one or take it off the bill or both. It is not
the server's fault. One of my favorite restaurants in Dallas has a big notice
on their menus stating more or less that If you are unhappy with your meal
and you don't say anything you deserve to have to eat it. I really agree with
that statement. There's nothing more irritating than eating with someone who
is unhappy with their food but is too much of a wimp to complain. So *you*
get to listen to them complain.

LizR

CLBence

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Jun 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/6/95
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> How much should I tip when I use a coupon to get a substancial
> discount on the meal(s)? i.e. 15% of the total before the
> discount or 15% after the discount.

Tipping is usually done on the total food cost BEFORE the discount.
The Entertainment '95 coupon book that I use specifically spells
this out.


Larry Larson

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Jun 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/6/95
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persh...@lrc.edu (The Snook Fisherman - pier ph# (813) 347-9749) writes:

>How much should I tip when I use a coupon to get a substancial
>discount on the meal(s)? i.e. 15% of the total before the
>discount or 15% after the discount.

The instructions for every discount card I've ever seen advise you
to tip on the total *before* discount.

-- Larry


djk

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Jun 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/6/95
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hsch...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () wrote:

> Also, quality of food matters too. One restaurant blatantly lied
>in their menu. They served an Alfredo sauce made with flour.. for this,
>I did not tip well either. Ever order calamari _rings_ that were more
>squid scraps than rings? Or an overdone steak? Granted, this is not the
>server's fault, but it sure makes the experience unpleasant, and I don't
>feel like tipping when I'm in a bad mood.
>

Not tipping a waiter because the food wasn't what you expected is simply outrageous. When someone cuts you off on the freeway do yo=
u go home and kick your dog? Complain to the management, scream at the chef, or best yet, don't go back to the restaurant. In othe=
r words, let those responsible for the problems reap the consequences of their actions. Don't screw over a waiter because the kitch=
en can't put out good food.

Incidentally, I didn't realize that people still ate fried calamari and fettucine alfredo. Haven't you heard about the consequences=
of a high cholesterol diet?

djk


Cat

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Jun 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/6/95
to
djk <dj...@columbia.edu> wrote:
>Incidentally, I didn't realize that people still ate fried calamari
>and fettucine alfredo. Haven't you heard about the consequences=
>of a high cholesterol diet?

Your post was decent until I got to this. Chill the hell out. This
isn't alt.food.fat-free or low-fat. This is a restaurant group. I
read the other groups. When I want to splurge I eat out and when I
eat out, I as well as many other people here would like to eat whatever
the hell we want without people like you yelling at us for our heavy
cream sauces and fried favorites.

And yes, "djk", "people" still do eat fried calamari and fettucine
alfredo. You should get out more.
Cat ----------------------------------------- |\ _,,,--,,_ ,) ---------
c...@rumpleteazer.feline.org /,`.-'`' -, ;-;;'
c...@va.pubnix.com |,4- ) )-,_ ) /\
http://www.feline.org/~feline/ -------------'---''(_/--' (_/-' -----F.Lee----

d/k

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Jun 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/6/95
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In article <3qhrmq$a...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> ebo...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Eric Scott Boltz) writes:
>Path: news.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!simtel!zombie.ncsc.mil!paladin.american.edu!jhunix1.hcf.jhu.edu!not-for-mail
>From: ebo...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Eric Scott Boltz)
>Newsgroups: rec.food.restaurants
>Subject: Re: Tipping at a restaurant
>Date: 31 May 1995 09:41:46 -0400
>Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
>Lines: 17
>Distribution: world
>Message-ID: <3qhrmq$a...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>
>References: <3qg5m1$g...@hubcap.clemson.edu>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.220.2.5


>In article <3qg5m1$g...@hubcap.clemson.edu> mds...@eng.clemson.edu writes:
>>What would be an acceptable amount to tip at a restaurant? I know it's around
>>15% if no service charge is added and then the rest depends on the type of service

>>rendered. However, does this apply to student couples with a shoestring budget who might want to try something special once in a while? So, if your bill is, say $ 35 for two people would I be expected to tip the waiter or waitress $ 5?


>I used to be a waiter and even then the whole idea was providing good
service for tips. When I go out to dinner, I tip solely on that and not on
the amount of the bill. The primary reason I go out to dinner is to be served
and not have to cook at home (and I would suspect the same for most people.)
Good food is also necessary, but secondary. The mark up on food is already
quite high not to mention the mark up on liquor; as it is with buying clothes,
appliances etc. but I don't tip the saleclerk. I also don't expect as much
from them. I will be the first to tip well over the 15% for great service
even if the food is bad...it all depends on how the waiter handles the
situation. I understand the server can't control the chef but he/she can
control how he/she handles my complaints about the food and the attempts they
make to take care of the problem. And I've had some real winners....like some
blaming me for complaning. But I've also had some great responses and
although the food was bad, I tipped the waiter well. And that is how I base
my tipping. So you should always be prepared, anyway, to tip well. But I
don't feel obligated to drop a minimum of 15%. And if you get less than 15%
for what you felt was good service, try being angry at whoever created this
gratuity system instead of the person rebelling against it.
d/k


Albert Nurick

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Jun 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/7/95
to
In article <3qtbus$n...@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,

ho...@ix.netcom.com (Laura Hoey (sounds like joey)) wrote:
>>Sorry, but I have to disagree. 15% of the total *food* bill should go to the
>>waiter; more if the service is exceptional, less if the services is
>>substandard (and if less, a chat with management is often in order).
>
>I still ask, in places where the tax is included, do *you* ask for the
>tax to be seperated so you're sure you're not tipping on it? TACKY
>
Hardly. I decide on the amount of the tip (15-20%, usually) then round
up to the nearest dollar.

Diane Unterspan

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Jun 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/7/95
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In rec.food.restaurants djk <dj...@columbia.edu> said:
The couple you are dining with is
>celebrating their aniversary, and you wind up drinking a bottle of Cristal
with your appetizers and then a ridiculously expensive Burgundy with the
main course. With desert, the four of you split a half bottle of Chateau
d'Yquem.


would you like to take me to dinner? i look terrific in a little black
dress (S).
--
D.

"All the misfortunes of men derive from one single thing, which is their
inability to be at ease at home." Blaise Pascal

Charlie Mullins

unread,
Jun 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/7/95
to
Base your tip on the bill *before* the discount.

---
--

Charlie Mullins

Lester Heitlinger, R.B.P.

unread,
Jun 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/7/95
to
The tip should reflect the amount of the bill before the discount. Many
of the places that accept the Entertainment Book coupons will add the tip
on the check. Check this before you inavdertently double the tip. Unless,
of course, the service was special. In restaurants that charge a service
charge and where I receive less than acceptable service I refuse to pay
the service charge without some sort of adjustment. Don't be intimidated.
Stand up and make yourself heard.

*****************************************************************************
Lester D. Heitlinger, R.B.P. When I want your opinion I'll give
heit...@soleil.acomp.usf.edu it to you!

On 5 Jun 1995, The Snook Fisherman - pier ph# (813) 347-9749 wrote:

> How much should I tip when I use a coupon to get a substancial
> discount on the meal(s)? i.e. 15% of the total before the
> discount or 15% after the discount.
>

Eric Scott Boltz

unread,
Jun 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/8/95
to
In article <3r5krn$2...@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> djk <dj...@columbia.edu> writes:

>c...@va.pubnix.com (Cat) wrote:
>>
>>And yes, "djk", "people" still do eat fried calamari and fettucine
>>alfredo. You should get out more.

>that was the last time anyone I know considered fettucine alfredo haute
>cuisine.
>djk

Hey djk -
Some of us don't eat what happens to be "in" I'm afraid. Furthermore,
some of us exercise enough that fatty foods aren't a problem. Personally
I'd rather followup a day of climbing (insert your favorite sport here)
with a tasty meal than with some "haute cuisine" that is "low-fat" but
still high calorie. If you don't have the drive to exercise enough to
eat what you want then that's really your problem.
Play hard, eat well.

-E

Bob Cotter

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Jun 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/8/95
to
hsch...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () wrote:
>Eric Scott Boltz (ebo...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu) wrote:
>: In article <3qq786$gio...@aip.realtime.net> alb...@tech.net (Albert Nurick) writes:
>
>: >Unless the waiter handles the wine, the sommillier (sp?) should receive the
>: >tip for recommending and serving the wine.
>
>: It's called "tipping out" and what it means is the servers tip all the
>: support people (bussers, hosts, even kitchen) at the end of the
>: shift. It often amounts to about 1/3 of the server's tips.

It would appear that the payments made to the staff at a restaurant vary from place to place. I have not worked in this industry, bu=
t, have a daughter who does.

In her environment, the hostess gets minimum wage and no share of tips.
The waitresses get minimum wage and share in the tips. When she draws a
hostess shift, she has to reach back and call upon all the customer
service instinct within and grin and bear it... when there are a lot of customers she will often have to pitch in and buss tables, r=
e-fill coffee cups and generally pitch in as a teamplayer. A full shift grosses
her less than $40. As a waitress, with customers who tip the
"mandatory" 15% she can easily double that $40 with a few good tables.

As a consumer (recall I said I don't work in this industry) I sometimes
feel uncomfortable about giving the "mandatory" 15%... I wish that it
was really a payment for service. I concur with an earlier writer who
suggested that restauranteers pay their staff more, add to their prices
and (unstated) let the market decide if the service warrants further
visits.

As it stands today, we will visit some places over and over again
because the COOK does a good job, not the servers and not the hostess
and not the management.

Strangely enough, though going out for dinner should be a fine
experience, for me, dealing with the bill is sometimes the most
stressful part of my day!

Bob


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bob Cotter http://www.advantage.com/staff/bob/
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Go Canucks. Keep the Drive Alive in '95. Wings at Double Overtime
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

djk

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Jun 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/8/95
to
c...@va.pubnix.com (Cat) wrote:
>
>And yes, "djk", "people" still do eat fried calamari and fettucine
>alfredo. You should get out more.

Meeoooowww! I got out quite often back in the '70's. Coincidentally,

Diane Unterspan

unread,
Jun 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/8/95
to
In rec.food.restaurants c...@va.pubnix.com (Cat) said:


>Your post was decent until I got to this. Chill the hell out.


i have to take exception with anyone giving djk a hard time..

first.... a person who points out the dangers of certain diets is doing
you a service..

second.. any one who orders chateau d'yquem with dessert is MY kind of
person. Jesus I hope djk is male and looks great in black tie. .. i have
been creating a MAJOR fantasy about this person and the address from an
ivy league school just fuels the fire.

djk

unread,
Jun 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/8/95
to
ebo...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Eric Scott Boltz) wrote:

>Furthermore,some of us exercise enough that fatty foods aren't a >problem. Personally


>I'd rather followup a day of climbing (insert your favorite sport here)
>with a tasty meal than with some "haute cuisine" that is "low-fat" but
>still high calorie. If you don't have the drive to exercise enough to
>eat what you want then that's really your problem.
>Play hard, eat well.
>
>-E
>

Exercise all you like. If you drink a pint of heavy cream a day your arteries will soon resemble strands of linguine and you'll be =
well on the way to a massive stroke. But, hey, maybe that's not so bad. In fact, why don't you come over to my place for dinner an=
d I'll whip up some Beef Wellington and broccoli with Hollondaise sauce and you can gorge to your heart's discontent. What's one les=
s macho braggart in the world, afterall?

By the way, nice tag-line? Did you think it up yourself or steal it from a sneaker commercial?

djk


Nancy Hampton

unread,
Jun 9, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/9/95
to
ebo...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Eric Scott Boltz) wrote:

>Hey djk -
>Some of us don't eat what happens to be "in" I'm afraid. Furthermore,

>some of us exercise enough that fatty foods aren't a problem.

>I'd rather followup a day of climbing (insert your favorite sport here)


>with a tasty meal than with some "haute cuisine" that is "low-fat" but
>still high calorie. If you don't have the drive to exercise enough to
>eat what you want then that's really your problem.
>Play hard, eat well.

>-----------------------------------------------------------------
Just because you excercise doesn't mean that you are not harmed by
eating a high fat diet. Remember Jim Fix? He thought that because
he ran miles and miles that he could exist on a big steak and fries.
If he had watched his diet AND excercised, he might have been alive
today.

hsch...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

unread,
Jun 9, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/9/95
to
djk (dj...@columbia.edu) wrote:
: hsch...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () wrote:

: > Also, quality of food matters too. One restaurant blatantly lied
: >in their menu. They served an Alfredo sauce made with flour.. for this,
: >I did not tip well either. Ever order calamari _rings_ that were more
: >squid scraps than rings? Or an overdone steak? Granted, this is not the
: >server's fault, but it sure makes the experience unpleasant, and I don't
: >feel like tipping when I'm in a bad mood.
: >
: Not tipping a waiter because the food wasn't what you expected is simply outrageous. When someone cuts you off on the freeway do yo=
: u go home and kick your dog? Complain to the management, scream at the chef, or best yet, don't go back to the restaurant. In othe=
: r words, let those responsible for the problems reap the consequences of their actions. Don't screw over a waiter because the kitch=
: en can't put out good food.

It's not difficult to see that a steak is overdone, nor does it take a
brain surgeon to see that the _rings_ aren't _rings_. Looking at the
alfredo sauce and noticing that the consistency is not one normally
obtained when using cream is a little more difficult... BUT, it still does
not absolve one from being at least partly responsible for the quality of
food presented. He or she obviously knows what the guest ordered, and
should tell the kitchen staff to get in gear. Besides, I never said NOT
to tip when the food is not to your liking. I only said that I am in no
mood to tip when I've had an unpleasant experience.

: Incidentally, I didn't realize that people still ate fried calamari and fettucine alfredo. Haven't you heard about the consequences=


: of a high cholesterol diet?

So, fried calamari is not good for you... but eating these delectables
once in a while does not make for a high cholesterol diet. Besides, this
is irrelevant to the service received.

Heidi and Kuan

hsch...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

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Jun 9, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/9/95
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LizR (RL...@msg.ti.com) wrote:

: In article <3r1hle$5...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> hsch...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes:
: > Also, quality of food matters too. One restaurant blatantly lied
: >in their menu. They served an Alfredo sauce made with flour.. for this,
: >I did not tip well either. Ever order calamari _rings_ that were more
: >squid scraps than rings? Or an overdone steak? Granted, this is not the
: >server's fault, but it sure makes the experience unpleasant, and I don't
: >feel like tipping when I'm in a bad mood.


: That's when you take it up with management. If your steak is overdone, they
: either need to give you a new one or take it off the bill or both. It is not
: the server's fault. One of my favorite restaurants in Dallas has a big notice

: on their menus stating more or less that If you are unhappy with your meal
: and you don't say anything you deserve to have to eat it. I really agree with
: that statement. There's nothing more irritating than eating with someone who
: is unhappy with their food but is too much of a wimp to complain. So *you*
: get to listen to them complain.

: LizR

I DO complain, when the time is right. It's not very nice to have the
other members of your party dig in while you wait for the chef to either
repair or reprepare your dish. It is also uncomfortable to
enjoy your remade meal when the rest of the party are done with
theirs. Sometimes, the best thing you can do when your meal is bad and
you're with a group of people, it's better to just eat your food and
enjoy the rest of the evening. Besides, sometimes it takes a whole hour
to prepare a course.
One observation we've made when over the years is that bad food
and bad service always seem to go together. Often the waitstaff gets
away with as much as the management allows... and the same follows with
precision and care in the kitchen. If, in the kitchen, they can get away
with tossing the food on the plate and not wiping the rim... guess what,
most will. This isn't to say there aren't situations where the food is
great and service stinks, or where service is great and the food stinks.
If service is fine, adequate, taking into account the type of
restaurant you're in (obviously you can't expect the same quality
waitstaff at a roadside diner as in Patina), we always tip around 15%.
However, if waitstaff wants to be tipped _well_ the service needs to be
just simply excellent.

Heidi and Kuan

Gnerre

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Jun 9, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/9/95
to
It's never appropriate to tip a server less because you view your
financial situation as a hindrance. The server is working for $2.01 an
hour. If you've got $35 to spend, cap your meal and drinks at $30 so that
you can leave a $4.50 tip with room to impress with a five. If you would
like information on GTA (Great Tipppers of American) please write.

Eric Scott Boltz

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Jun 9, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/9/95
to
In article <3r7mjd$p...@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> djk <dj...@columbia.edu> writes:
>ebo...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Eric Scott Boltz) wrote:
>>Play hard, eat well.

>Exercise all you like. If you drink a pint of heavy cream a day your arteries will soon resemble strands of linguine and you'll be =
>well on the way to a massive stroke. But, hey, maybe that's not so bad. In fact, why don't you come over to my place for dinner an=

Nope, I get a complete bloodworks twice a year and have very low
cholesterol. You just don't understand you in-fashion diner you.
Maybe you ought to learn just a teeny bit about nutritional research
on athletes. The results are surprisingly different from those done
on couch potatoes like yourself. Even Covert Baily has pledged to
never use the word diet in his next book because it has so much
less of an impact on overall health of the individual than does
regular exercise. I suppose you haven't seen the British study which
concluded that regular, vigorous exercise has a tremendous affect on
life expectancy either...

You are also probably completely unaware of the diets of most of the
world's top triathletes too (30% CFF).

You just keep telling yourself that that boring "haute" cuisine your
eating will save your life - then you won't have to sweat or keep
your cardiovascular system running well.

see ya tubs!

-E


djk

unread,
Jun 10, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/10/95
to
hsch...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () wrote:

>It's not difficult to see that a steak is overdone...

You can tell that a steak is overdone simply by looking at it?
Congradulations. Most cooks/chefs that I know can't make that
determination without at least touching the cooked meat. I worked as a
cook for the better part of a decade and I never managed to refine my
skills to the point where I could distinguish a medium-rare steak from a
medium-well one solely by gazing at it. Consequently, you'll forgive me
if I maintain that asking a server to make this distinction is more than
a little unreasonable.

>...it still does not absolve one from being at least partly responsible >for the quality of food presented. He or she obviously kn=


ows what the >guest ordered, and should tell the kitchen staff to get in gear.

Clearly you have never worked in a restaurant. Yes, if a customer orders his meal SOS (sauce on the side) and the kitchen goes ahea=
d and puts sauce on it anyway, the server should tell the chef that the dish must be redone. However, if the same server enters the=
kitchen screaming at the cooks, telling them that the food looks like garbage, and orders them to "get in gear"...well, the last th=
ing that person is ever likely to see is a saute pan filled with hot grease flying towards his or her head. The only thing that a w=
aiter can do if the kitchen is having a particularly bad night is to pass this information along to the restaurant manager.

Yes, there are occassions on which the waiter may have contributed to problems with the food that has been served to you. Receiving=
cold food can often (though not always) be attributed to the waitstaff. Similarly, if the server brings you a dish that you didn't=
order, that is his/her fault, not the kitchen's. On the whole, however, most serious problems with the quality of the food are the =
responsibility of the kitchen. Not tipping the waiter the expected 15-20% because you were displeased about things over which they =
had absolutely no control is an inappropriate expression of your displeasure. Not only is it unfair to the waiter, it doesn't accom=
plish your purpose-- receiving better food in the future.

If the fried calimari you get at a given restaurant is continually lousy, you have several options: complain to the management; don=
't order calimari there in the future; stop patronizing the restaurant. Once again, if you are displeased with some element of your=
meal, you certainly have a right to make your feelings known. I would suggest, however, that your expectations regarding the degre=
e of control that a waiter has over the quality of the food you receive are simply unrealistic.

>So, fried calamari is not good for you... but eating these delectables
>once in a while does not make for a high cholesterol diet. Besides, >this is irrelevant to the service received.

While I would argue that fried calimari hardly qualifies as a "delectable", you larger point is well taken.

djk


Bayla Schimmel

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Jun 10, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/10/95
to
Ordinarily, my husband is a good tipper. However, we had one
experience we won't soon forget.
We went to dinner in a nice restaurant in an elegant downtown hotel.
The dining room was far from full, so that can't have been the reason the
waiter treated us as he did. I think he just didn't want to be a waiter.
At least he didn't want to be OUR waiter. He consistently ignored us as
long as he possibly could. We waited a very long time for him to take
our orders; we waited endlessly between each course; when he did deign to
take notice of us at all, he was condescending and actually slightly rude.
The final straw was when my husband noticed the scrumptious big piece
of cheesecake the guy at the next table was getting for dessert. He
ordered the same thing, but the piece delivered by the friendly waiter
was half the size of the other guy's!
That did it. When we finally managed to get our check, my husband just
left the cash (which came to about 22 cents more than the amount of the
bill) and we left. He was so mad he had no intention of leaving the
waiter anything. We were about halfway across the hotel lobby when the
waiter came running after us, saying "Here, you forgot your change," and
gave my husband the 22 cents. His intention, of course, was to embarrass
us. Didn't work -- my husband said "thanks," and took it!!!


Charlie Mullins

unread,
Jun 13, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/13/95
to
To djk and Eric Scott Boltz:

Please take your argument somewhere else. This newsgroup
is supposed to be about restaurants, nor about diets.

---
--

Charlie Mullins

KayM604

unread,
Jun 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/18/95
to
Kuan, what is up with you? Getting away with not wiping the rim of a
plate? Roadside diner vs. Patina? Calm the hell down. If you've got the
money to go to all these places, then just tip what the dining experience
was worth and get over it. Most of us "working" people grab a burger at
McDonalds or, when we're concerned with fat and cholesterol, we can go to
a local restaurant and have the grilled chicken breast dinner. I don't
want to offend you, but it's really boring having to sift through all of
your letters on here just looking to find something interesting on the net
to read, and having to sit through all of your name-dropping letters.
Have a Coke and a Smile!!!

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