Beef stock: can I tell if it's bad?
Mark Gendron
bought a pressure canner, and did everything by the book (10 minute steam
vent, followed by 20 minutes at 11 lbs pressure). The jars developed vacuum
as they sealed.
Given that the results of doing this incorrectly can be fatal, will I be
able to tell for sure if any toxins have developed in the product? Is there
any potential contaminant that (a) would not cause the vacuum to be lost,
and (b) would not be detectable by smell?
Thanks
-mg
Elizabeth Hallowell
gelatinous when chilled. If it's watery I throw it out. Therefore, when you
open a jar, stick it in the fridge for an hour and see if it thickens up.
Elizabeth
: I canned some beef stock the other day (my very first canning effort!) I
:
:
:
:
Vicky Shaw
>
> I canned some beef stock the other day (my very first canning effort!) I
> bought a pressure canner, and did everything by the book (10 minute steam
> vent, followed by 20 minutes at 11 lbs pressure). The jars developed vacuum
> as they sealed.
>
> Given that the results of doing this incorrectly can be fatal, will I be
> able to tell for sure if any toxins have developed in the product? Is there
> any potential contaminant that (a) would not cause the vacuum to be lost,
> and (b) would not be detectable by smell?
>
> Thanks
> -mg
If the stock has Botulism you will not be able to tell. Where most
bacteria and molds have some visual indication or bad smell C. Botulism
has no taste smell or color. When you open your stock observe if it has
an in rush of air or if it spurts. Smell it. Does it smell ok? Look
at it. Is there any odd texuters or color? If you are not using the
stock in something that will be cooked put it in a pan and bring it to a
boil and simmer for 10 minutes before consuming to eliminate any toxins
that maybe in the product.
For more information you may want to check out these pages.
http://www.foodsafety.org/he/he273.htm
http://www.foodsafety.org/he/he201.htm
http://www.foodsafety.org/he/he210.htm
http://www.foodsafety.org/sf/sf087.htm
http://www.foodsafety.org/il/il058.htm
Hope these help you out and don't hesitate to ask if you have any more
questions.
Vicky
Blanche Nonken
> Mark Gendron wrote:
> > Given that the results of doing this incorrectly can be fatal, will I be
> > able to tell for sure if any toxins have developed in the product? Is there
> > any potential contaminant that (a) would not cause the vacuum to be lost,
> > and (b) would not be detectable by smell?
> If the stock has Botulism you will not be able to tell. Where most
> bacteria and molds have some visual indication or bad smell C. Botulism
> has no taste smell or color. When you open your stock observe if it has
> an in rush of air or if it spurts. Smell it. Does it smell ok? Look
> at it. Is there any odd texuters or color? If you are not using the
> stock in something that will be cooked put it in a pan and bring it to a
> boil and simmer for 10 minutes before consuming to eliminate any toxins
> that maybe in the product.
OK, I'll throw in my questions as well.
I just canned my usual mixed bone stock for the first time. (not having
it take up freezer space is a plus!) I noticed a couple of things - I
had poor lid sealing on 4 of the 7 jars (pints) so I did the usual clean
rims, toss old lids, use new lids etc. and 3 of the 4 sealed. (The 4th
was almost certainly because of a warped lid ring.)
Things I noticed:
The proteins I wasn't able to remove by filtering have sort of
coagulated and sunk to the bottom.
(mentioned in a previous reply) The one that didn't seal is in the
fridge, and seems to have much less jelling ability than before the
processing.
Are either of these two things significant?
Mark Gendron
Vicky Shaw <vick...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3825F1A4...@home.com...
> Mark Gendron wrote:
> If you are not using the
> stock in something that will be cooked put it in a pan and bring it to a
> boil and simmer for 10 minutes before consuming to eliminate any toxins
> that maybe in the product.
So simmering will destroy the botulism toxins, even though a much higher
temperature
is required to destroy the botulism spores during the canning process?
Thanks
-mg
Mark Gendron
> not a substitute for safe canning procedures.
Agreed. But since the canning process relies on 11 minutes of 240 degree
heat to
kill botulism spores, why would it be beneficial to simmer the broth for 10
minutes
before using it? Would 10 minutes of simmering destroy botulism toxin?
Thanks
-mg
Vicky Shaw
>
> Vicky Shaw <vick...@home.com> wrote:
>
> > Mark Gendron wrote:
> > > Given that the results of doing this incorrectly can be fatal, will I be
> > > able to tell for sure if any toxins have developed in the product? Is there
> > > any potential contaminant that (a) would not cause the vacuum to be lost,
> > > and (b) would not be detectable by smell?
>
> > If the stock has Botulism you will not be able to tell. Where most
> > bacteria and molds have some visual indication or bad smell C. Botulism
> > has no taste smell or color. When you open your stock observe if it has
> > an in rush of air or if it spurts. Smell it. Does it smell ok? Look
> > stock in something that will be cooked put it in a pan and bring it to a
> > boil and simmer for 10 minutes before consuming to eliminate any toxins
> > that maybe in the product.
>
>
> I just canned my usual mixed bone stock for the first time. (not having
> it take up freezer space is a plus!) I noticed a couple of things - I
> had poor lid sealing on 4 of the 7 jars (pints) so I did the usual clean
> rims, toss old lids, use new lids etc. and 3 of the 4 sealed. (The 4th
> was almost certainly because of a warped lid ring.)
>
> Things I noticed:
>
> The proteins I wasn't able to remove by filtering have sort of
> coagulated and sunk to the bottom.
>
> (mentioned in a previous reply) The one that didn't seal is in the
> fridge, and seems to have much less jelling ability than before the
> processing.
>
> Are either of these two things significant?
No. Just carefully pour out the broth so that the debris stay in the
jar. The jelling ability of the natural gelatins in the broth has been
broken down by the heat in the pressure canning and that is why there is
less jelling. There shouldn't be any problems with the broth.
Vicky
Vicky Shaw
>
> Vicky Shaw <vick...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:3825F1A4...@home.com...
> > Mark Gendron wrote:
>
> > stock in something that will be cooked put it in a pan and bring it to a
> > boil and simmer for 10 minutes before consuming to eliminate any toxins
> > that maybe in the product.
>
> temperature
> is required to destroy the botulism spores during the canning process?
>
> Thanks
> -mg
Remember that the reheating process is an extra measure of safety it is
not a substitute for safe canning procedures.
Vicky
Vicky Shaw
> >
> > Remember that the reheating process is an extra measure of safety it is
> > not a substitute for safe canning procedures.
>
> heat to
> kill botulism spores, why would it be beneficial to simmer the broth for 10
> minutes
> before using it? Would 10 minutes of simmering destroy botulism toxin?
>
> Thanks
> -mg
You do it as I said for an extra measure of safety. You were worrying
about what if you made a mistake. This gives that extra reassurance if
everything looks ok but you never know when something may have gone
wrong. You know pressure gauge may have been off, pressure dropped and
you weren't aware ect.
Vicky
Gordon Couger
wrote:
You are not worried about botulism spores at this stage they are
perfectly safe for an adult to eat. You are worried about the toxin
the rule I learned was to boil for 15 minutes to denature the toxin.
Gordon
Gordon Couger
Stillwater OK.
www.couger.com/gcouger
Remove the nospam from my return address
Carl D. Goldin
> You are not worried about botulism spores at this stage they are
> perfectly safe for an adult to eat. You are worried about the toxin
> the rule I learned was to boil for 15 minutes to denature the toxin.
New York State Department of Health
Communicable Disease Fact Sheet
Botulism (food-borne botulism and infant botulism)
What is botulism?
Botulism is a food poisoning caused by a toxin produced by the bacteria,
Clostridium botulinum. Only a few cases are reported in New York State each
year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Who gets botulism?
Food-borne botulism is due to ingestion of a toxin formed in food. It often
involves improperly processed home canned foods. Botulism in infants under
one year of age has been associated with the ingestion of contaminated
honey.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
How is botulism spread?
Person to person spread does not occur. A person must ingest contaminated
food that has not been properly cooked or reheated after the toxin has been
produced by the bacteria. With infant botulism, an infant must ingest
bacterial spores and then produce the toxin in his/her gastrointestinal
tract.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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What are the symptoms of botulism?
Food-borne and infant botulism produce symptoms that affect the nervous
system. The symptoms of food-borne botulism include blurred or double
vision, general weakness, poor reflexes, difficulty swallowing and sometimes
death. Infant botulism has a wide range of symptoms including difficulty
breathing, visual disturbances, poor feeding and poor reflexes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
How soon do symptoms appear?
Symptoms of food-borne botulism usually appear 12-36 hours after ingestion,
but may take several days. The incubation period for infant botulism is
unknown.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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What is the treatment for botulism?
Hospital care is necessary. Antitoxin is given in certain cases of
food-borne botulism, but not in cases of infant botulism .
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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What happens if botulism is not treated?
Untreated botulism may result in death.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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How can botulism be prevented?
Identified sources of infant botulism, such as honey, should not be fed to
infants. All canned and preserved foods should be properly processed and
prepared. Bulging containers should not be opened and foods with off-odors
should not be eaten or even tasted. Commercial cans with bulging lids should
be returned unopened to the vendor.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
See also:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/foodborn/botu.htm
Mark Gendron
Gordon Couger <gco...@nospam.couger.com> wrote in message
news:382ea6d2...@news.provalue.net...
>
> You are not worried about botulism spores at this stage they are
> perfectly safe for an adult to eat. You are worried about the toxin
> the rule I learned was to boil for 15 minutes to denature the toxin.
That is what I was wondering. . .does boiling eliminate the toxin.
Zxcvbob
Yes... But depending on what other spoilage organisms may be in there, it
still may not be fit to eat.
regards,
bob