This pectin thing...
Peter Watson
always made james, jellies and marmalades on the pectin available in the
fruit or when I knew it was not going to be there, we have to add lemon or
some other high pectin fruit. But there is another interest for me.. I have
this idea that in the USA you guys make jams etc that are no where near as
'cooked' as ours are... we are (or at least I was) taught that fruit becomes
jam (etc ) after a certian time in cooking and prior to that won't set
properly. I also know that for some, when a jam won't set, continued cooking
will just result in a reduced product that is not jam but a thick
sugar/fruit mix. Jellies I always make on the pectin available or with the
addition of some lemon on the basis of fruit to sugar ratio. My sense is
that you guys like the fresh taste of fruit where we have grown un on the
more cooked taste... apricots and plums are two great examples of taste
difference between part and full cooked.
I've had this conversation with a couple of folks before, but what is
interesting and I think important since RFP is now an international group,
we should get to know each others methods and ways.
Peter
AM
Fowles Vaccola have a product called 'Jamsetta' which I'm sure is pectin.
You can get it in supermarkets in Australia.
Also there is a recipe for home made pectin at:
http://recipes.alastra.com/preserving/homemade-pectin.html
Hope this helps
AM
"Peter Watson" <wat...@onthe.net.au> wrote in message
news:B88B08BB.7420%wat...@onthe.net.au...
Grandma
> always made james, jellies and marmalades on the pectin available in the
> fruit or when I knew it was not going to be there, we have to add lemon or
> some other high pectin fruit. But there is another interest for me.. I
have
> this idea that in the USA you guys make jams etc that are no where near as
> 'cooked' as ours are... we are (or at least I was) taught that fruit
becomes
> jam (etc ) after a certian time in cooking and prior to that won't set
> properly.
Hi Peter -
Here in the US we generally have two kinds of pectin generally available -
Certo, which is a liquid, and SureJel, a powdered variety. The powder
goes in at the beginnning of cooking, the liquid just at the end - amount
used varies with the amount of natural pectin in the fruit. Frankly I
haven't looked at the box in years and don't have one handy but as I recall
both of these are apple pectin.
My Grandma used to do her jams and jellies without the addition of pectin
but that has become uncommon here. Part of that I'm sure is the time factor
and probably another part that younger folks here no longer realize that
jams and jellies even can be made without the shortcut of adding extra
pectin.
I think that this likely came about kind of like this -
My Grandma raised her family in during the Great Depression of 29 (my Dad
was 9 that year). Money was very tight, thousands out of work & homeless.
Grandpa was lucky to keep his job and the folks were very lucky to own a
small farm on the outskirts of town. Grandpa had forgotten more about
gardening than I've ever known and raised huge gardens every year - every
single thing that you can think of. They kept a couple of cows for milk, a
couple of pigs to butcher come winter and chickens for their eggs.
Blueberry Hill was a short walk and my Dad often tells of climbing the hill
with huge lard pails at picking time, bringing back enough to put up for the
winter and enough to sell to the "town folks" too for some extra cash.
Lots of the less immediate family didn't farm or have room for a garden, so
Grandma put up not only for her own family but for the entire extended
bunch.
Grandma had an entire store room down in the basement and when I was a child
come winter every shelf would be crammed full with thousands of jars and the
floor covered with bushels of produce.
Like most other Americans, my Mom and Dad had their lives interrupted in a
big way by WWII. (Wasn't everyone!) By the time that was over there had
been a number of changes here - not so many small family farms because there
had been no one to work them with the boys all gone to the war and the young
women all gone off to work the production lines in the factories. Returning
soldiers often settled in the larger cities or just outside - I can even
remember when the "suburbs" came to be a normal word and idea here. We
always went home to Grandma's when it was time to can and Mom always found
time to do up a batch of pickles and another of pizza sauce at home along
with a few jars of jam, but she never had room for the kind of canning that
my Grandma did. And I'm not at all sure that she ever learned how to make
jams/jellies without adding pectin.
My generation was kind of split. For the first time most women could
entertain the idea of a real career and many chose that option. Others of
us were the original "hippies" - the whole back to nature, natural foods
thing came from there. Those of us that were in to natural foods early in
life learned to can early to accomodate the complete lack of commercially
raised/processed food that was "natural." The career women of my generation
that have become involved in the whole putting it up at home idea have often
done so later in life when they had more time to spare.
Commercial pectin for jams first became widely available when I was ~10. My
Mom used it for the few jars of jelly/jam she found time to put up. My Home
Economics teacher in junior high taught us to make grape jelly using the
stuff - guaranteed results you know. No waste of expensive ingredients that
you had to buy (no where near as many small farms) during the learning
process.
By the time my daughters (oldest is 30) were coming up, I had to buy almost
everything that went into our jams/jellies so I always used the Certo
because of the guaranteed results. They don't know any other way and my
Grandma, who could have taught them, passed on nearly 20 years ago.
So - you have skills that most of us here have long since forgotten :)
>I also know that for some, when a jam won't set, continued cooking
> will just result in a reduced product that is not jam but a thick
> sugar/fruit mix.
We make several varieties of this sort that don't actually jel - Apple
Butter and my Grandma's Rhubarb Conserve (I can't wait for spring!) are two
that come quickly to mind.
>Jellies I always make on the pectin available or with the
> addition of some lemon on the basis of fruit to sugar ratio. My sense is
> that you guys like the fresh taste of fruit where we have grown un on the
> more cooked taste... apricots and plums are two great examples of taste
> difference between part and full cooked.
I've never noticed any particular difference but then I've never compared
two batches of the same sort of jelly (with and without) at the same time
either. Might be interesting.
Even in high summer apricots in the US are generally SO expensive that
almost no one makes apricot jam. Plum just isn't popular here for some
reason. Some of the berries - gooseberries for one, currants - have been
outlawed by some of the states because the plants imported pests not native
to the area.
> I've had this conversation with a couple of folks before, but what is
> interesting and I think important since RFP is now an international group,
> we should get to know each others methods and ways.
>
> Peter
>
Excellent idea!
Melba's Jammin'
<wat...@onthe.net.au> wrote:
I think you're right about the cooked taste thing, Peter. I've only
made jam without pectin a couple times and didn't care for it -- it had
a "heavy" taste to it. I might have done it wrong, though, and may do
another batch to check my technique. IIRC, I cooked it hot and fast and
I've since learned that it should be cooked lowly and slowly. :-)
I also think that "we" have a culture wherein things have to be done
quickly or we won't bother. And then there's that "fresher fruit taste"
aspect, as well. The pectin-added recipes require more sugar in the mix
than those jams made without added pectin -- the commercial pectin
available to us here is generally made from citrus; apple pectin is made
from sour apples.
There are still plenty of folks who make jam without pectin. Cook's
Illustrated magazine did a story sometime back about making small
batches of jam, in a skillet, I think, using a reduced amount of sugar.
A certain amount of sugar is necessary for preservation. We also have
that abomination (IMO) that's called "freezer jam" that's made with
pectin. The pectin is cooked and mixed with the fruit and sugar blend.
Sorry, but it's not jam -- jam is a cooked product -- that stuff is a
fruit spread and was developed for the folks who wanted something
homemade but didn't want to get involved with special equipment (it's
not all that special) and processing.
Glad you mentioned that business of sometimes cooking the fruit and
sugar and still not winding up with jam!
Regards,
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com>
At two months, Sam is 13# and 24-1/4" tall.
Grandma
"Melba's Jammin'" <barbsc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:barbschaller-0D3C...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
Isn't THAT the truth. For that matter, its pretty hard to regard this
particular monstrosity even as a fruit spread. My MIL used to make this and
I always thought it was more like a fruity jello with a slighty odd taste.
zxcvbob
Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> I think you're right about the cooked taste thing, Peter. I've only
> made jam without pectin a couple times and didn't care for it -- it had
> a "heavy" taste to it. I might have done it wrong, though, and may do
> another batch to check my technique. IIRC, I cooked it hot and fast and
> I've since learned that it should be cooked lowly and slowly. :-)
>
[snip]
>
> A certain amount of sugar is necessary for preservation. We also have
> that abomination (IMO) that's called "freezer jam" that's made with
> pectin. The pectin is cooked and mixed with the fruit and sugar blend.
> Sorry, but it's not jam -- jam is a cooked product -- that stuff is a
> fruit spread and was developed for the folks who wanted something
> homemade but didn't want to get involved with special equipment (it's
> not all that special) and processing.
I really don't make much jam and jelly, but I usually either make it with
powdered pectin, or with fruit where there is almost too much natural
pectin. One recipe I like is for Lemon Blueberry jam, and you simmer a
thinly sliced lemon in a little water until it jels by itself. Then add
the blueberries and sugar and continue cooking.
I don't much care for the ones where you cook them for hours -- I prefer to
make fruit butters if I'm gonna cook it for hours. I am surprised that
cooking jam hot and fast did not work well. I thought that was the whole
reason that jam recipes are rather small and you're not supposed to double
them until you reach expert status.
BTW I like "freezer jam", especially strawberry, but I guess there is no
accounting for taste. I agree that it is not real jam, but I like it better
than the real stuff. Also, it (freezer jam) must be stored in the freezer.
Best regards,
Bob
Ophelia
"Grandma" <gra...@nospam.interdial.net> wrote in message
news:u6ada2...@corp.supernews.com...
Ahhh I have been looking at freezer jam recipes and have decided.. after
reading your and Barb's comments not to bother:))
I grow victoria plums and blackcurrants in abundance and make jam with them.
It keeps me in enough jam for the year now I am just feeding David and
myself reguarly.
O
Grandma
"Ophelia" <Elsi...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a43fdt$1bu5i9$1...@ID-88328.news.dfncis.de...
Blackcurrant - YUM! I have to buy my blackcurrant jam. Remember that old
saying "don't knock it till you try it" though - Bob has pretty good taste
and he likes the strawberry. As I recall it can be made with frozen
strawberries and a single batch is not very large, so it might be worth the
making of one little batch just to see if you enjoy it.
Ophelia
Ok I might just try that in June/July when the strawberries are ready:)
As for the blackcurrant.... I use LochLomond which flowers late because of
the frosts here... .if you want a cutting...........
O
zxcvbob
> Bob has pretty good taste...
I see that I've got somebody snookered. ;-)
Bob
--
"Stealing a Rhinoceros should not be attempted lightly"
--Kehlog Albran
Ellen Wickberg
haven't lived. Ellen
----------
Ophelia
I want to live:)
Ophelia
"Ellen Wickberg" <e...@paralynx.com> wrote in message
news:3c655427$0$25...@fountain.mindlink.net...
> If you haven't tried strawberry rhubarb ( with or without added pectin)
you
> haven't lived. Ellen
> ----------
Grandma
"zxcvbob" <b...@a51web.net> wrote in message
news:3C654A88...@a51web.net...
> Grandma says,
> > Bob has pretty good taste...
>
> I see that I've got somebody snookered. ;-)
>
> Bob
>
Nah - just tried a couple of your recipes rounded up from here and there :)
Peter Watson
sunshine....@potogold.com wrote on 9/2/02 9:12 PM:
Thanks for that... Peter
Peter Watson
that I just hang onto what I learned from my Mother when a child and for me,
much of this represents quality. For as much as I have lived a vibrant and
very full life (so far) travelled lots, eaten everywhere, in the end, what I
see as the greatest expression of who I am, is the food I prepare and, if I
can give to my five children (oldest now 30 too) a love of good food, good
wine and life, without pretentiousness and unnecessary complication... then
I have passed on my heritage.
Peter
Peter Watson
10/2/02 1:51 AM:
Hot and fast... this reminds me that for the way I was taught to cook jam,
you try and let the juices run from the fruit, this is done by adding the
sugar to soft fruits (berries) and letting them stand overnight. Where hard
fruits are used, often the fruit is cooked, very slowly in a small amount of
water till softened and the juices running (up to a couple of hours very
slowly) and then warmed sugar is added and the cooking spead lifted to a
good rolling boil till set is achieved as Ophelia describes.
Peter
ellem
<wat...@onthe.net.au> wrote:
>I said earlier, pectin is not readilly available in Australia and I have
>always made james, jellies and marmalades on the pectin available in the
>fruit or when I knew it was not going to be there, we have to add lemon or
>some other high pectin fruit.
The same applies here in New Zealand - I don't think we even have a
commercially available product such as Jamsetta, although I've never
looked for it. Oddly enough though, I have a packet of Jamsetta which
is a relic from when I lived in Australia. I probably bought it out
of curiousity to see what difference it made to the end product, but
never quite got around to using it.
> But there is another interest for me.. I have
>this idea that in the USA you guys make jams etc that are no where near as
>'cooked' as ours are... we are (or at least I was) taught that fruit becomes
>jam (etc ) after a certian time in cooking and prior to that won't set
>properly. I also know that for some, when a jam won't set, continued cooking
>will just result in a reduced product that is not jam but a thick
>sugar/fruit mix. Jellies I always make on the pectin available or with the
>addition of some lemon on the basis of fruit to sugar ratio. My sense is
>that you guys like the fresh taste of fruit where we have grown un on the
>more cooked taste... apricots and plums are two great examples of taste
>difference between part and full cooked.
I've just read the general instructions on the Jamsetta packet, which
say only 5 mins boiling after adding warmed sugar and the Jamsetta.
This short (to me) boiling time would no doubt make a considerable
difference to the flavour/texture, compared to my sans pectin product
which is boiled for 15-20mins. It's berry and stonefruit season here
now .. maybe time to put the Jamsetta to the test.
>
>I've had this conversation with a couple of folks before, but what is
>interesting and I think important since RFP is now an international group,
>we should get to know each others methods and ways.
Lynne
Grandma
"ellem" <elle...@yahoooo.com> wrote in message
news:g88b6u47b931ga2ir...@4ax.com...
> I've just read the general instructions on the Jamsetta packet, which
> say only 5 mins boiling after adding warmed sugar and the Jamsetta.
> This short (to me) boiling time would no doubt make a considerable
> difference to the flavour/texture, compared to my sans pectin product
> which is boiled for 15-20mins. It's berry and stonefruit season here
> now .. maybe time to put the Jamsetta to the test.
> >
Lynne try Peach Melba - use half peaches and half raspberries for the jam.
Single most delightful jam I've ever made or tried. I do it by taking the
recipes on the packet for peach and raspberry and dividing them each in half
then adding the sugar together. Grind the peaches or chop very finely.
Proceed as usual.
Ross Reid
>
>I've just read the general instructions on the Jamsetta packet, which
>say only 5 mins boiling after adding warmed sugar and the Jamsetta.
>This short (to me) boiling time would no doubt make a considerable
>difference to the flavour/texture, compared to my sans pectin product
>which is boiled for 15-20mins. It's berry and stonefruit season here
>now .. maybe time to put the Jamsetta to the test.
If Jamsetta is a form of powdered pectin and, if it is as you say, a
relic, then it may not be a fair test. The Certo brand pectin crystals
we get here in Canada have a rather limited shelf life. I don't have
any on hand right now but, I believe it is "Best Before" one year.
Ross.
ellem
wrote:
>If Jamsetta is a form of powdered pectin and, if it is as you say, a
>relic, then it may not be a fair test. The Certo brand pectin crystals
>we get here in Canada have a rather limited shelf life. I don't have
>any on hand right now but, I believe it is "Best Before" one year.
>
>Ross.
It's a 50gm pack (you do the conversion), ingredients listed as
'castor sugar.(as carrier), pectin, citric acid', and there's no useby
date on the pack - it's about 18mths old. I'll try it on Grandma's
Peach Melba suggestion, and if it doesn't work I guess I'll just have
to revert to the generally never-fail Kiwi (New Zealander) method and
boil the hell out of it ;)
Lynne
Ophelia
A commercial pectin product here is 'Certo' but I don't use it at all. Like
you, if I think something needs extra pectin I add lemon juice or add
another fruit which is high in pectin
Ophelia
Scotland
Ellen Wickberg
to equal the cups of fruit. We have also used the no sugar needed pectin (
Bernardin) recipe ( makes a less sweet but very flavourful jam) and the
regular powdered pectin recipe ( Bernardin). All of these are very good, as
is bluebarb jam ( 2 parts rhubarb, 1 part blueberries and 3 parts sugar),
cooked til tested done a a frozen plate. With pectin, of course, you follow
the directions for how you add the pectin, sugar and how long to cook. I
have never tasted a rhubarb strawberry combination that didn't make a
product that tasted better than each of the ingredients ( and I like both
plain strawberries and plain rhubarb ( cooked of course). Hope this is of
some help, certainly worth trying one of these. Ellen
----------
In article <3c655427$0$25...@fountain.mindlink.net>, "Ellen Wickberg"
Grandma
> We have used equal parts finely cut rhubarb, crushed strawberries and
sugar
> to equal the cups of fruit. We have also used the no sugar needed pectin
(
> Bernardin) recipe ( makes a less sweet but very flavourful jam) and the
> regular powdered pectin recipe ( Bernardin). All of these are very good,
as
> is bluebarb jam ( 2 parts rhubarb, 1 part blueberries and 3 parts sugar),
> cooked til tested done a a frozen plate. With pectin, of course, you
follow
> the directions for how you add the pectin, sugar and how long to cook. I
> have never tasted a rhubarb strawberry combination that didn't make a
> product that tasted better than each of the ingredients ( and I like both
> plain strawberries and plain rhubarb ( cooked of course). Hope this is of
> some help, certainly worth trying one of these. Ellen
> ----------
> In article <3c655427$0$25...@fountain.mindlink.net>, "Ellen Wickberg"
> <e...@paralynx.com> wrote:
>
Strawberry-Rhubarb anything is scrumptious. I like to make up a dozen or so
pies during berry season, then seal them in extra large ziplocks and freeze
them (unbaked).
Mary Fisher
Ophelia <Elsi...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a43fdt$1bu5i9$1...@ID-88328.news.dfncis.de...
>
> news:u6ada2...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Melba's Jammin'" <barbsc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:barbschaller-0D3C...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
> > > In article <B88B08BB.7420%wat...@onthe.net.au>, Peter Watson
> > > <wat...@onthe.net.au> wrote:
> > We also have
> > > that abomination (IMO) that's called "freezer jam" that's made with
> > > pectin. The pectin is cooked and mixed with the fruit and sugar
blend.
> > > Sorry, but it's not jam -- jam is a cooked product -- that stuff is a
> > > fruit spread and was developed for the folks who wanted something
> > > homemade but didn't want to get involved with special equipment (it's
> > > not all that special) and processing.
> >
> > Isn't THAT the truth. For that matter, its pretty hard to regard this
> > particular monstrosity even as a fruit spread. My MIL used to make this
> and
> > I always thought it was more like a fruity jello with a slighty odd
taste.
> >
>
> Ahhh I have been looking at freezer jam recipes and have decided.. after
> reading your and Barb's comments not to bother:))
Two swallows don't make a summer ...
I make blackberry whatever-you-choose-to-call-it in the freezer (no pectin,
just fruit and sugar, mashed together) and it's delicious - fresh and
fruity.
I also make blackberry jam - cooked but with no lemon and no pectin - and
it's delicious.
I also make blackberry cheese and bramble seedless and they're both - yes
you've guessed it - delicious. All different but isn't that what we want,
variety?
Don't be put off by a couple of opinions, there will be as many folk who
like anything as don't. You don't know if you like something until you try
it :-)
M
Peter Watson
blackberries in your country,... in Australia they are regarded as noxious
weeds and eradicated as much as possible... sad because I remember as a kid
we used to go and pick a huge amount each summer (now) and have some
delicious jams and pies. Nowdays, you have to be very careful they are not
sprayed and the commercially grown varieties don't seem to have the full
taste of the wild ones.
Peter
Grandma
Here in the US they still grow wild in a number of places and are still
highly valued, as long as they don't grow along power lines and the like
where they do get sprayed. Luckily the environmentalists have lobbied so
that many places don't spray anywhere near as much as they did in the past.
My sister owns a good chunk of a hilltop and more than a bit of the old
stone walls are buried under blackberry bushes. They also grow wild in a
ground version all over the property along with wild strawberries and
lowbush blueberries. Year before last for some strange reason all of the
berries were ready at one time - you couldn't take a step without crushing
something. We had several fantastic breakfasts and a couple of mixed berry
pies from the proceeds - too much trouble to even attempt to separate the
three kinds.
You're right that the commercial don't have the flavor, though if you can
lay hands on the frozen Marion berries they are not half bad. You can also
add just a dab of lemon juice and a spot of grated fresh rind to liven
things up a bit.
zxcvbob
> lay hands on the frozen Marion berries they are not half bad. You can also
> add just a dab of lemon juice and a spot of grated fresh rind to liven
> things up a bit.
There is a cultivar called a Youngberry that is very tasty. It is a
blackberry and dewberry cross, and it grows on vigorous trailing
brambles with ferocious thorns. We grew them when I was a kid, and they
tasted far superior to the wild berries or any other cultivated berries.
Best regards,
Bob
--
"I promise you a police car on every sidewalk." -- Marion Barry
Peter Watson
13/2/02 8:42 AM:
Thats true, but haven't seen them in Australia for a while, must ask.
and I do agree with Grannie... a splidge of lemon juice does help and hell,
I am so jealous of that property of your sister...
Peter
Scott
"Grandma" <gra...@nospam.interdial.net> wrote:
> You're right that the commercial don't have the flavor, though if you can
> lay hands on the frozen Marion berries they are not half bad.
Marion berries? Wasn't he mayor of Washington, D.C.?
--
to respond, change "spamless.invalid" to "optonline.net"
zxcvbob
Scott wrote:
>
> In article <u6j1dq6...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Grandma" <gra...@nospam.interdial.net> wrote:
>
> > You're right that the commercial don't have the flavor, though if you can
> > lay hands on the frozen Marion berries they are not half bad.
>
> Marion berries? Wasn't he mayor of Washington, D.C.?
>
Yes.
Best regards,
Bob
--
"I am a great mayor; I am an upstanding Christian man; I am an intelligent
man; I am a deeply educated man; I am a humble man." -- Marionberry
Ross Reid
We have a small farm of 50 acres here in Southern Ontario, Canada and
there are very many wild blackberries growing in the fence rows. My
wife picks many quarts of them during their season and she's got the
scars to prove it. We also have about 40 currant bushes (red, white
and black) and my most favourite jelly is a combination of red currant
and wild blackberry. We extract the juice from both these in our steam
juicer and the jelly is exceptionally clear.
Ross.
Mary Fisher
Those in my garden aren't sprayed - and they're not commercial varieties. I
wouldn't pick them from hedgerows as I did fifty years ago. The problem
wouldn't be pesticides but diesel deposits - and others.
The 'wild' ones certainly aren't officially noxious weeds although some
people don't value them.
Our daughter had banks of brambles, 12' deep. Her goats are steadily
chomping their way through them, clearing the paddock wonderfully!
Never had commercially grown blackberies but I have no qualms about taking
your word for their lack of flavour.
Mary
Mary
>
> Peter
>
Mary Fisher
Sorry, I forgot to say that we're in Yorkshire and our daughter is in south
west Wales.
Mary
>
Ophelia
That Grandma is just spoiled.. Pah:))
Ophelia
Marie Martinek
>always made james, jellies and marmalades on the pectin available in the
>fruit or when I knew it was not going to be there, we have to add lemon or
>this idea that in the USA you guys make jams etc that are no where near as
>'cooked' as ours are... we are (or at least I was) taught that fruit becomes
>jam (etc ) after a certian time in cooking and prior to that won't set
>properly. I also know that for some, when a jam won't set, continued cooking
>will just result in a reduced product that is not jam but a thick
>sugar/fruit mix. Jellies I always make on the pectin available or with the
>addition of some lemon on the basis of fruit to sugar ratio. My sense is
>that you guys like the fresh taste of fruit where we have grown un on the
>more cooked taste... apricots and plums are two great examples of taste
>difference between part and full cooked.
>
>interesting and I think important since RFP is now an international group,
>we should get to know each others methods and ways.
>
I think that with added pectin, you don't have to cook (and cook and cook
and cook) the fruit down so much. I remember making wild-grape jelly when I
was in high school -- this jelly stuff sounded interesting, and I was able
to collect a gallon or so of really tiny wild grapes. So I cooked them to
popping, strained the juice, measured and added the required sugar. And
cooked it down. And cooked it...
I believe that at the end, out of the seemingly huge bucket of grapes, I
got one pint of jelly. It tasted more like liquid sugar than grapes.
So, even without low-sugar pectins, adding pectin reduces the sugar
concentration. And, with low-sugar pectin, you can get marvelous flavor
without overpowering it with sweet!
Too bad you can't get packaged pectin in Oz. How else would you make hot
pepper jelly, or basil jelly, or tomato jam...?
>
Marie Martinek
Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA
mv-ma...@northwestern.edu
Mary Fisher
Marie Martinek <mv-ma...@northwestern.edu> wrote in message
news:a4rsg9$a2a$1...@news.acns.nwu.edu...
>
> So, even without low-sugar pectins, adding pectin reduces the sugar
> concentration. And, with low-sugar pectin, you can get marvelous flavor
> without overpowering it with sweet!
Now I'm confused! What's this about low sugar pectin? The pectin we buy - or
make - has no sugar in it. I've never heard of pectin with added sugar ...
>
> Too bad you can't get packaged pectin in Oz. How else would you make hot
> pepper jelly, or basil jelly, or tomato jam...?
I'd like to know about those too, any chance of recipes?
Mary
Grandma
"Mary Fisher" <mary....@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3c7186bb$0$29610$4c56...@master.news.zetnet.net...
>
> Marie Martinek <mv-ma...@northwestern.edu> wrote in message
> news:a4rsg9$a2a$1...@news.acns.nwu.edu...
> >
> > So, even without low-sugar pectins, adding pectin reduces the sugar
> > concentration. And, with low-sugar pectin, you can get marvelous flavor
> > without overpowering it with sweet!
>
> Now I'm confused! What's this about low sugar pectin? The pectin we buy -
or
> make - has no sugar in it. I've never heard of pectin with added sugar ...
> >
The low-sugar kind is for use with recipes that use less than normal sugar.
Doesn't mean that the other kind of pectin has sugar in it :)
Peter Watson
mv-ma...@northwestern.edu wrote on 19/2/02 8:42 AM:
Interesting... grapes have low pectin and in the event, some lemon peel
would have helped. The long cook the hell out of it thing is not what should
happen, if you have done as you did, got the juice, put the correct amnt of
sugar and made sure that pectin is present (there is a test for pectin...
goes something like drop a teaspoon of the juice into a glass with 1 inch of
metholated spirits in and if the liquid kind of jells into strands then
pectin is present, the more strands, the more pectin) then the whole thing
should take no more than 20 or 30 minutes.
As to pepper jelly, basil jelly or tomato jam... no problem, I use apples as
the medium and the skin is high in pectin.
Peter
Ellen Wickberg
given to us ( I don't know how old it was) and it didn't work at all. Ellen
----------
In article <u732s0s...@corp.supernews.com>, "Grandma"
Ellen Wickberg
----------
In article <a4rsg9$a2a$1...@news.acns.nwu.edu>, mv-ma...@northwestern.edu
ellem
<wat...@onthe.net.au> wrote:
>As to pepper jelly, basil jelly or tomato jam... no problem, I use apples as
>the medium and the skin is high in pectin.
>
Peter,
Any chance of you sharing your recipe(s) with another (commercial)
pectin-less antipodean? I've got a glut of basil in the garden,
(together with lots of underripe windfall apples) and have already
frozen probably far more cubes of pesto than I'll use in a year ...
I found a recipe using apples in Digby Law's Pickle and Chutney
Cookbook, but the ingredients specified conjure up an end result more
like a sweet apple jelly with basil overtones, rather than a well
flavoured basil jelly: 2kg chopped apples, water to barely cover, 4
tbsp chopped basil, 1 cup white vinegar - or half vinegar/white wine
-, and a 1:1 ratio of sugar to juice.
I'm a relative novice when it comes to jelly making, in that I've only
ever made quince and blackberry jellies in the past, and am not
confident enough to mess with a recipe such as this to ensure I get
the flavour I want. Therefore your advice would be appreciated.
Lynne
Peter Watson
elle...@yahoooo.com wrote on 19/2/02 2:08 PM:
Lynne, I am able to send you a chapter in a book I wrote, so please email me
direct as I cannot imagine everyone wants to see it. The chapter deels with
preserves.
In fact, you fairly much have accept that what sounds strange in terms of
the jelly can be saved by the vinegar, now the proportions of vinegar you
use are yours to judge and I would err on the wrong side of conservative and
splash mroe than suggested here. The proper ratio if 400 grams of sugar to
every 500 mil of juice. Now for a more pungent and deep basil taste, boil up
some of the leaves with the apples, but remember that in the end, the
volatile essential oils of the basil will disipate unless added very close
to the finished jelly.
Let me know if you want more..
Peter
D
wrote:
>Lynne, I am able to send you a chapter in a book I wrote, so please email me
>direct as I cannot imagine everyone wants to see it. The chapter deels with
>preserves.
I'll bet a bunch of us do want to see it. :)
Bob Pastorio
I second. All in favor say "aye."
<aye, aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye...>
Opposed say "nay."
<stunning silence>
The ayes have it. The chapter will be posted (author willingness kinda
assumed) with all due ceremony, copyright notice and authorial
attribution. The RFP Committee To Do The Right Thing will have a plaque
engraved to commemorate the event and hang it in the foyer of the very
impressive International RFP Headquarters for all guests and visitors to
see and admire.
--
Bob Pastorio
http://www.pastorio.com
Peter Watson
wrote on 20/2/02 6:56 AM:
OK OK OK.... stop it, i'm blushing.
Now how to do it, as an attachment? It's written in MS Word format, or just
as a very long email? It is 17 pages of A4, I just had a look...
Let me know and I'll post it.
Peter
Mary Fisher
>
> > >
> > > So, even without low-sugar pectins, adding pectin reduces the sugar
> > > concentration. And, with low-sugar pectin, you can get marvelous
flavor
> > > without overpowering it with sweet!
> >
> > Now I'm confused! What's this about low sugar pectin? The pectin we
buy -
> or
> > make - has no sugar in it. I've never heard of pectin with added sugar
...
> > >
>
> The low-sugar kind is for use with recipes that use less than normal
sugar.
> Doesn't mean that the other kind of pectin has sugar in it :)
Ah <light dawns>!
I see, thanks.
So what's the difference between low sugar and normal pectin? In ingredient
terms that is.
Mary
>
>
Mary Fisher
An attachment would be lovely :-)))
M
>
> Peter
>
Peter Watson
mary....@zetnet.co.uk wrote on 20/2/02 8:37 AM:
Mary, I rang the local supplier of a product called in Oz Jamsetta... sold
by a company called Fowlers Vacola who still produce bottling outfits and
the like... they tell me that Jamsetta is a combination of Caster Sugar (not
sold in the USA, but read fine sugar) and Citrus Pectin. I then called a
supplier we deal with and they sell a pure Citrus Pectin. Interesting that
there is no mention of the added sugar in the Jamsetta.
Peter
Bob Pastorio
I almost hate to suggest it this way, but how about break it into maybe
4 pieces and send it as a posting to the NG. That way no one has to
worry about conversions or attachments and the like.
One suggestion...
Peter Watson
sarahf...@earthlink.net wrote on 20/2/02 12:21 PM:
> Actually, Peter, hawk your book. Give us the ISDN, Name and if
> Amazon.com carries it :)
>
Mate.... can't hawk it, not published at the moment, have often thought of
sending the text to a USA publisher, but not yet
Peter
ellem
<wat...@onthe.net.au> wrote:
>Mary, I rang the local supplier of a product called in Oz Jamsetta... sold
>by a company called Fowlers Vacola who still produce bottling outfits and
>the like... they tell me that Jamsetta is a combination of Caster Sugar (not
>sold in the USA, but read fine sugar) and Citrus Pectin. I then called a
>supplier we deal with and they sell a pure Citrus Pectin. Interesting that
>there is no mention of the added sugar in the Jamsetta.
>
The packet of Jamsetta I have beside me right now clearly lists the
contents as "castor sugar (as carrier), pectin and citric acid". As
the total weight is only 50gms (slightly less than 2 ounces) and good
for 1kg, or 2.2lb, of prepared fruit, I imagine the amount of
'carrier' is minimal.
Lynne
ellem
<sarahf...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Actually, Peter, hawk your book. Give us the ISDN, Name and if
>Amazon.com carries it :)
>
Whoa up, there, Sarah ... let me get my free offer first! ;)
Lynne
Melba's Jammin'
<past...@rica.net> wrote:
I ain't dusting no damned plaque, Buster!
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Sam pics updated 2/19/02.
"Always in a jam, never in a stew; sometimes in a pickle."
D
Mmmmm, yam.
Mary Fisher
Now I'm confused again ...
BTW, I'm in Yorkshire, England, we call it caster sugar too.
M>
> Peter
>
Peter Watson
mary....@zetnet.co.uk wrote on 21/2/02 10:19 AM:
I think all this is in the ways different countries name and sell product.
Mind you, I wonder why it is necessary to use sugar (and I am told by a NZ
lady) citric acid in Jamsetta.
Oh well..
Peter
Melba's Jammin'
Fisher" <mary....@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
(snippage) Grandma said this:
> > The low-sugar kind is for use with recipes that use less than
> > normal sugar. Doesn't mean that the other kind of pectin has sugar
> > in it :)
>
> Ah <light dawns>!
>
> I see, thanks.
>
> So what's the difference between low sugar and normal pectin? In
> ingredient terms that is.
>
> Mary
Best that anyone's been able to tell me is that it's a "stronger" pectin
-- final product is formulated different. The "lower sugar recipes"
pectins produce a product that is not as clear and sparkly as "regular"
pectin.
Melba's Jammin'
<wat...@onthe.net.au> wrote:
> in article a4rsg9$a2a$1...@news.acns.nwu.edu, Marie Martinek at
> mv-ma...@northwestern.edu wrote on 19/2/02 8:42 AM:
>
> > In article <B88B08BB.7420%wat...@onthe.net.au>, Peter Watson
> > <wat...@onthe.net.au> wrote:
> >> I said earlier, pectin is not readilly available in Australia and
> >> I have always made james, jellies and marmalades on the pectin
> >> available in the fruit or when I knew it was not going to be
> >> there, we have to add lemon or some other high pectin fruit.
(more Peter snipped)
> > Too bad you can't get packaged pectin in Oz. How else would you
> > make hot pepper jelly, or basil jelly, or tomato jam...?
> > Marie Martinek Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA
> > mv-ma...@northwestern.edu
(test for natural pectin snipped)
> As to pepper jelly, basil jelly or tomato jam... no problem, I use
> apples as the medium and the skin is high in pectin.
>
> Peter
Hey, Peter: So, when you're making your tomato jam or pepper jelly, how
exactly are you utilizing the apple? Are you making apple pectin (a
liquid) and using that or are you adding chopped apples to the pot? If
you're using apple bits in your tomato-apple jam, is the apple flavor
discernible? Just curious.
Melba's Jammin'
<gra...@nospam.interdial.net> wrote:
> "Peter Watson" <wat...@onthe.net.au> wrote in message
> news:B88B08BB.7420%wat...@onthe.net.au...
> > I said earlier, pectin is not readilly available in Australia and I
> > have always made james, jellies and marmalades on the pectin
> > available in the fruit or when I knew it was not going to be there,
> > we have to add lemon or some other high pectin fruit. But there is
> > another interest for me.. I have this idea that in the USA you guys
> > make jams etc that are no where near as 'cooked' as ours are... we
> > are (or at least I was) taught that fruit becomes jam (etc ) after
> > a certian time in cooking and prior to that won't set properly.
>
> Hi Peter -
>
> Here in the US we generally have two kinds of pectin generally available
> -
> Certo, which is a liquid, and SureJel, a powdered variety. The
> powder goes in at the beginnning of cooking, the liquid just at the
> end - amount used varies with the amount of natural pectin in the
> fruit. Frankly I haven't looked at the box in years and don't have
> one handy but as I recall both of these are apple pectin.
All the Certo and Sure€Jell products are citrus pectin. I haven't asked
the Ball folks what theirs is, but I'd be *very* surprised if it were
any different from the Certo products.
Apple pectin is often used by commercial makers but it's not readily
available to the general public.
One of the ingredients (usually listed first) in the powdered pectins is
sugar in one form or another (dextrose, sucrose). I'll make an educated
guess that it is there as a carrier for the pectin. I have some pure
citrus pectin and it is a very fine powder (like powdered sugar). It
would be murder to try to mix it with fruit without doing something to
it first (mixing with sugar or water first). Somebody I know tried it
once. It wasn't a good plan. Trust me.
Now here's a thought that has research to support it: I wonder if the
"less sugar required" pectins have, not a "stronger" pectin as I'd
suggested in a different post, but simply *more* pectin and less sugar
to make the weight of the package (both boxes weigh the same or darned
close). With those reduced-sugar things, you have to mix some sugar
with the dry pectin before using it, if I recall correctly.
Does this make any sense to anyone besides me?
Thierry Gerbault
barbsc...@earthlink.net says...
Yesterday I made Blackberry Jam without adding commercial pectin. I
used the peelings and cores from three apples boiled down with water.
In the jam I used 1 cup of my homemade apple pectin along with the fruit
and sugar, and the juice of one lemon. I was able to get just the right
soft set that I was looking for and the taste is heavenly! Thanks to
all who offered information...
--
Thierry Gerbault
(remove NOSPAM from address to reply)
"One man's meat is another man's poison"
- Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.
Mary Fisher
So am I. I've never come across it here. Or anywhere in England ;-)
M
>
> Oh well..
>
> Peter
>
Peter Watson
Jammin' at barbsc...@earthlink.net wrote on 22/2/02 2:46 AM:
Dam, I replied direct.. essence is.. sour apple, more base flavour than
apple, vinegar or water.. drain, measure, add sugar and extras (herbs or
spices etc) and cook. No discernible apple taste. Peppers (or capsicums and
chilies) have good pectin content anyway. (I think... I'll check on this
later)
Peter
Bob Pastorio
>
> In article <u6acb21...@corp.supernews.com>, "Grandma"
> <gra...@nospam.interdial.net> wrote:
>
> > "Peter Watson" <wat...@onthe.net.au> wrote in message
> > news:B88B08BB.7420%wat...@onthe.net.au...
>
> > > I said earlier, pectin is not readilly available in Australia and I
> > > have always made james, jellies and marmalades on the pectin
> > > available in the fruit or when I knew it was not going to be there,
> > > we have to add lemon or some other high pectin fruit. But there is
> > > another interest for me.. I have this idea that in the USA you guys
> > > make jams etc that are no where near as 'cooked' as ours are... we
> > > are (or at least I was) taught that fruit becomes jam (etc ) after
> > > a certian time in cooking and prior to that won't set properly.
> >
> > Hi Peter -
> >
> > Here in the US we generally have two kinds of pectin generally available
> > -
> > Certo, which is a liquid, and SureJel, a powdered variety. The
> > powder goes in at the beginnning of cooking, the liquid just at the
> > end - amount used varies with the amount of natural pectin in the
> > fruit. Frankly I haven't looked at the box in years and don't have
> > one handy but as I recall both of these are apple pectin.
>
> the Ball folks what theirs is, but I'd be *very* surprised if it were
> any different from the Certo products.
>
> Apple pectin is often used by commercial makers but it's not readily
> available to the general public.
>
> One of the ingredients (usually listed first) in the powdered pectins is
> sugar in one form or another (dextrose, sucrose). I'll make an educated
> guess that it is there as a carrier for the pectin. I have some pure
> citrus pectin and it is a very fine powder (like powdered sugar). It
> would be murder to try to mix it with fruit without doing something to
> it first (mixing with sugar or water first). Somebody I know tried it
> once. It wasn't a good plan. Trust me.
>
> Now here's a thought that has research to support it: I wonder if the
> "less sugar required" pectins have, not a "stronger" pectin as I'd
> suggested in a different post, but simply *more* pectin and less sugar
> to make the weight of the package (both boxes weigh the same or darned
> close). With those reduced-sugar things, you have to mix some sugar
> with the dry pectin before using it, if I recall correctly.
>
> Does this make any sense to anyone besides me?
The technical name for why the sugar is in the package is so it can act
as a "diluent." It keeps the pectin granules apart long enough for them
to act the way you want them to (to dissolve evenly) rather than
clumping (which you don't want).
Ball "Fruit Jell no sugar needed" pectin has a couple gums in it, Locust
Bean and Xanthan, as I recall, plus some dextrose. It sets differently
than traditional jellies. In my opinion, it works best for jams of
fully-ripe and naturally sweet fruit. Without added sugar, the color of
the finished product looks pale. Flavor can be bland and it sets, I
dunno, gummier. Adding a little sugar helps with all those conditions,
but it still isn't a traditional result. Not bad, just not the same.
Melba's Jammin'
Melba's Jammin' <barbsc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
(snip)
CORRECTION: First sentence below should read "...that has no research
to support it:". . . . (dang fingernails!)
Melba's Jammin'
<past...@rica.net> wrote:
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
(snippage)
> > Now here's a thought that has research to support it: I wonder if the
> > "less sugar required" pectins have, not a "stronger" pectin as I'd
> > suggested in a different post, but simply *more* pectin and less sugar
> > to make the weight of the package (both boxes weigh the same or darned
> > close). With those reduced-sugar things, you have to mix some sugar
> > with the dry pectin before using it, if I recall correctly.
> >
> > Does this make any sense to anyone besides me?
>
> The technical name for why the sugar is in the package is so it can act
> as a "diluent." It keeps the pectin granules apart long enough for them
> to act the way you want them to (to dissolve evenly) rather than
> clumping (which you don't want).
>
> Ball "Fruit Jell no sugar needed" pectin has a couple gums in it, Locust
> Bean and Xanthan, as I recall, plus some dextrose. It sets differently
> than traditional jellies. In my opinion, it works best for jams of
> fully-ripe and naturally sweet fruit. Without added sugar, the color of
> the finished product looks pale. Flavor can be bland and it sets, I
> dunno, gummier. Adding a little sugar helps with all those conditions,
> but it still isn't a traditional result. Not bad, just not the same.
Yeah, yeah, yeah -- but does my caffeine-induced thought about there
simply being more pectin and less carrier (you say diluent, I say
carrier) sugar make sense over my earlier remark about the pectin in the
less-sugar-needed boxes being a "stronger" pectin?
mumblemumblediluentmumble. . .
Melba's Jammin'
Thierry Gerbault <thierry_...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
(snip)
>
> Yesterday I made Blackberry Jam without adding commercial pectin. I
> used the peelings and cores from three apples boiled down with water.
> In the jam I used 1 cup of my homemade apple pectin along with the fruit
> and sugar, and the juice of one lemon. I was able to get just the right
> soft set that I was looking for and the taste is heavenly! Thanks to
> all who offered information...
Yeay, Thierry!! Is it pretty? Did you seed any of the berries?
Mary Fisher
Melba's Jammin' <barbsc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:barbschaller-859A...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
> In article <MPG.16deec648...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
> Thierry Gerbault <thierry_...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> (snip)
> >
> > Yesterday I made Blackberry Jam without adding commercial pectin. I
> > used the peelings and cores from three apples boiled down with water.
> > In the jam I used 1 cup of my homemade apple pectin along with the fruit
> > and sugar, and the juice of one lemon. I was able to get just the right
> > soft set that I was looking for and the taste is heavenly! Thanks to
> > all who offered information...
That's the way to do it!
Mary
Bob Pastorio
Yes. What was the question...?