Newbie canning tomatoes?
Mike Hardie
blast blanching and skinning them, then I cold-packed them in the jars
- adding 1/2 tsp salt and 2 Tbs lemon juice 1/2 way and pressing them
down to remove all air bubbles. Packed them down again at the top
filling to 1/2" headspace. Cleaned the rim and adjusted the lids and
rims. used my little tongue "thingy" to place them in the pot of
boiling water and timed 45 minutes.
They got all mushy and none of them sealed. Now I don't have many
tomatoes left in the garden but we really need to get this right.
What did we do wrong?
I am really working to get the perfect jar or something!
Many thanks in advance for any suggestions. Joy (the newbie canner)
ps. I have tried 3 batches of beets with little success either. They
are losing their color and water and floating - just pathetic. (I
figured my failure with them was from using a pressure cooker with no
pressure guage - I just timed it).
zxcvbob
tomatoes rather than cold pack. I have also recently decided that I can
cheaply buy canned tomatoes that are better than the ones I can myself.
But I can't find commercial picante sauce that I like anymore, so I've been
canning salsa instead of just tomatoes, and I've also dehydrated a *bunch*
of tomatoes this year.
If you skin your tomatoes and freeze them, they will be mushy and watery
when you thaw them but they will still taste like fresh tomatoes.
What varieties of tomatoes did you grow? Some varieties are bred for
canning and have a lot more meat to them than slicing tomatoes do. Most
but not all of the canning varieties are pear shaped.
Best regards,
Bob
MarilynŠ
> I followed a recipe for canning tomatoes. My 9 year old son had a
> blast blanching and skinning them, then I cold-packed them in the jars
> - adding 1/2 tsp salt and 2 Tbs lemon juice 1/2 way and pressing them
> down to remove all air bubbles. Packed them down again at the top
> filling to 1/2" headspace. Cleaned the rim and adjusted the lids and
> rims. used my little tongue "thingy" to place them in the pot of
> boiling water and timed 45 minutes.
> They got all mushy and none of them sealed. Now I don't have many
> tomatoes left in the garden but we really need to get this right.
> What did we do wrong?
> I am really working to get the perfect jar or something!
> Many thanks in advance for any suggestions. Joy (the newbie canner)
I suppose I never thought of the tomatoes getting mushy when I can them as a failure. I
suppose it depends on how you look at it but I'm looking at them from the standpoint that
they're going to go in something I'm cooking anyway, like stew or soup or chili mac or
even spaghetti sauce so to me, it doesn't make any difference. They taste like canned
tomatoes. This year I don't have the yield I want on the type of tomatoes I like to can
so I'm just making stewed tomatoes anyway which means I have several different varieties
mix together, including cherry and pear tomatoes.
About them not sealing, though...that's a mystery. Were these new jars? Were they old
ones you bought second-hand? After a couple of times with one particular jar not sealing
this summer, I decided to chuck the jar. At first I thought it might have been a bad lid
becuase that's not uncommon to get a bad lid in a box now and then, but then I marked the
jar and when I used it again, it failed to seal again. That jar went to the recycling
bin.
> ps. I have tried 3 batches of beets with little success either. They
> are losing their color and water and floating - just pathetic. (I
> figured my failure with them was from using a pressure cooker with no
> pressure guage - I just timed it).
The beets...are you saying you didn't have a pressure gauge on the pressure canner when
you canned them? Is this a pressure canner or a cooker? Did it have a weight that goes
on top? And if so, was the weight a varied one, with slots for 5, 10 and 15 pounds,
respectively? If it didn't have those, but was just a single-holed weight, then you don't
have a pressure canner. And if you meant that you were doing a boiling water bath on the
beets, then you shouldn't have because they need pressure canned. Beets are low acid and
need to be pressure canned at 10 pounds pressure for 30 minutes for pints, 35 for quarts.
Bill Floyd
Mike Hardie wrote:
> I followed a recipe for canning tomatoes. My 9 year old son had a
> blast blanching and skinning them, then I cold-packed them in the jars
> - adding 1/2 tsp salt and 2 Tbs lemon juice 1/2 way and pressing them
> down to remove all air bubbles. Packed them down again at the top
> filling to 1/2" headspace. Cleaned the rim and adjusted the lids and
> rims. used my little tongue "thingy" to place them in the pot of
> boiling water and timed 45 minutes.
Question: Was the water deep enough to cover the jars by at least 2
inches? Just putting the jars in boiling water is not enough, it has to
cover them.
Mushy is almost normal.... You are probably going to cook with them anyway.
> They got all mushy and none of them sealed. Now I don't have many
> tomatoes left in the garden but we really need to get this right.
> What did we do wrong?
>> ps. I have tried 3 batches of beets with little success either. They
> are losing their color and water and floating - just pathetic. (I
> figured my failure with them was from using a pressure cooker with no
> pressure guage - I just timed it).
Did you have the lid tight and did steam come out? Then you need some
type of gauge to tell what pressure you are getting, otherwise it is
basically a water bath, see above.
Best,
Bill
Ross Reid
>I followed a recipe for canning tomatoes. My 9 year old son had a
>blast blanching and skinning them, then I cold-packed them in the jars
>- adding 1/2 tsp salt and 2 Tbs lemon juice 1/2 way and pressing them
>down to remove all air bubbles. Packed them down again at the top
>filling to 1/2" headspace. Cleaned the rim and adjusted the lids and
>rims. used my little tongue "thingy" to place them in the pot of
>boiling water and timed 45 minutes.
>They got all mushy and none of them sealed. Now I don't have many
>tomatoes left in the garden but we really need to get this right.
>What did we do wrong?
I was with you right up to the tongue "thingy", that's where you lost
me. The only tongue "thingy" I could think of was the one the doctor
uses when he asks you to say "aaahhh", and I just couldn't imagine
using one (or more) of those to lower jars into a BWB canner ;-).
Oops, it just struck me. By tongue "thingy", did you mean tongs?
In any event, first, let me say that canned tomatoes will be somewhat
mushy, it is to be expected but, not sealing is a whole different
matter.
You were using proper "Mason" jars (Ball, Kerr, Bernardin, etc.)? With
new two piece lids (not necessarily new screwbands, but new snap
lids)?
Did you tighten the screwbands only finger tight? (Although it is
extremely difficult to do, if one really works hard at it, it is
possible to over tighten the screwbands to the point where the snap
lids cannot allow air within the jar's headspace to escape. This
would, in turn, prevent it from forming a vacuum when the jar cooled.)
When processing, were the jars completely submerged, with at least 1
inch of water above the lids?
Did you time the 45 minutes from the time the water returned to a
boil? (Not that boiling for the full 45 minutes is in any way
necessary to complete the seal but, it is necessary from a food safety
standpoint.)
If the answer to all the above questions is Yes, then I'm stymied as
to why your jars did not seal.
>ps. I have tried 3 batches of beets with little success either. They
>are losing their color and water and floating - just pathetic. (I
>figured my failure with them was from using a pressure cooker with no
>pressure guage - I just timed it).
As far as beets are concerned, IMHO, processing them is a waste of
time and energy. If you really want to eat them, tasting "earthy" like
they do when fresh out of the garden, I'd suggest freezing but, if you
want something that actually tastes pretty good, pickle them.
However, that's not a solution to your problem but, I'll have to leave
that to someone who actually goes to the trouble of pressure canning
beets. I'm pretty sure that won't be Barb ;-).
Ross
Eliminate obvious to email.
Deb
Mike Hardie <jha...@REMOVETHISpeoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:t5ogpuc0ib9logcsb...@4ax.com...
> I followed a recipe for canning tomatoes. My 9 year old son had a
> blast blanching and skinning them, then I cold-packed them in the
jars
> - adding 1/2 tsp salt and 2 Tbs lemon juice 1/2 way and pressing
them
> down to remove all air bubbles. Packed them down again at the top
> filling to 1/2" headspace. Cleaned the rim and adjusted the lids
and
> rims. used my little tongue "thingy" to place them in the pot of
> boiling water and timed 45 minutes.
> They got all mushy and none of them sealed. Now I don't have many
> tomatoes left in the garden but we really need to get this right.
> What did we do wrong?
About half of my tomatoes didn't seal this year. My problem was
definately boil-over. As I took the jars from the water bath most
of them boiled out from under the lid. When I took the lid off,
there were 'chunks' of tomato on the rim and lid. As I repacked
them I left more headspace...closer to 3/4" instead of 1/2" the BBB
says. This time they all sealed. I added a bit ... (~ 1 T) of
lemon juice to be on the safe side... maybe it lost some when it
boiled out.
Another thing I noticed in the BBB (Ball Blue Book) was there are
two different times for processing tomatoes. If water pack, quarts=
45 min. If juice pack, quarts= 1 hr & 25 min. Any guess why the
difference?
Deb
--
(in Oregon, the pacific northWET) ;>
Mike Hardie
2. YES Only tightened the lids finger tight. (Stuff was pouring out
of them after I removed hem from the hot water bath)
3. YES Submerged under 1-2" of water during boil
4. YES Started timing when the water returned to full boil.
<snip>
>If the answer to all the above questions is Yes, then I'm stymied as
>to why your jars did not seal.
bottom underneath. Some of the jars have no air space at top with
overcooked tomatoes pushing up....none are sealed.
Do you think if the water I put them in after the cold pack was warm
and not cold that it would have done something funny? Because I may
have started to heat the water while packing the tomatoes.
As for the beets.....processing them the way I do seems to be a waste
of time and energy - I aggee. But, I LOVE them so much on a Greek
salad....that I must pursue excellence! Funny thing, when I first
made the beets I did pickle them and when I went to put them on a
salad....they were very WRONG! So that is when I found out I just
needed plain beets.
<snip>
Ross Reid
>1. YES Brand New Ball jars and two pice lids were used.
>2. YES Only tightened the lids finger tight. (Stuff was pouring out
>of them after I removed hem from the hot water bath)
If stuff was coming out of the jars on removal, there was not enough
headspace at the start. When the jars overflow, any little bits of
tomato or seeds caught on the rim would prevent a proper seal.
>3. YES Submerged under 1-2" of water during boil
>4. YES Started timing when the water returned to full boil.
><snip>
>>If the answer to all the above questions is Yes, then I'm stymied as
>>to why your jars did not seal.
>Some of my jars have floating tomatoes and 1/2 jar of water at the
>bottom underneath. Some of the jars have no air space at top with
>overcooked tomatoes pushing up....none are sealed.
Separation of solid and liquid is quite common in home canning
tomatoes. It's due to the action of an enzyme contained in the
tomatoes and is almost impossible to overcome. I just live with it.
When you say "overcooked", you do realize that home canned tomatoes do
not stay firm like they were when you picked them? They're going to be
added to other dishes like sauce or chili or served as a hot side dish
anyway so it matters not that they are cooked.
>Do you think if the water I put them in after the cold pack was warm
>and not cold that it would have done something funny? Because I may
>have started to heat the water while packing the tomatoes.
I think I'm beginning to see the problem, at least partially.
Normally, you would place your jars in the boiling water bath canner,
cover with water and bring to a boil, then turn off or at least reduce
the heat under the canner. You would then remove one jar, pack it with
tomatoes, leave the correct amount of headspace, wipe the rim, affix a
lid and screwband then return the jar to the canner. Remove the next
jar and repeat the process until all jars are filled. Then, cover the
canner, bring the water to a full boil and start timing. Speaking of
timing, I just realized that you are doing raw pack which requires 85
minutes in a BWB for both 500ml and 1 liter jars up to 1,000 ft.
elevation, longer if you're higher.
Go to this site:
http://extension.usu.edu/coop/food/foodpub.htm
where you can find all the USDA Guides to Home Canning.
Guide No. 3 covers tomatoes and tomato products, it's at:
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/foodpubs/canguide/cangui3.pdf
>
>As for the beets.....processing them the way I do seems to be a waste
>of time and energy - I aggee. But, I LOVE them so much on a Greek
>salad....that I must pursue excellence! Funny thing, when I first
>made the beets I did pickle them and when I went to put them on a
>salad....they were very WRONG! So that is when I found out I just
>needed plain beets.
As to the beets, I'll still defer to someone else.
Bill Floyd
>>bottom underneath.
The tighter you pack them, the less liquid you will have.
Some of the jars have no air space at top with
>>overcooked tomatoes pushing up....none are sealed.
>>
>
> Separation of solid and liquid is quite common in home canning
> tomatoes. It's due to the action of an enzyme contained in the
> tomatoes and is almost impossible to overcome. I just live with it.
> When you say "overcooked", you do realize that home canned tomatoes do
> not stay firm like they were when you picked them? They're going to be
> added to other dishes like sauce or chili or served as a hot side dish
> anyway so it matters not that they are cooked.
Ross, do you have separation when hot packing? I 'usually' cold pack and
accept separation but read somewhere (Ball's?) that if you use a hot
pack, separation does not occur. I tried it and sure enough, there was
no separation. Best I can remember, (can't find my Ball right now) you
peeled and cut the tomatoes as usual, put some in a large pot, crushed
them and heated. After the first ones, no more crushing was needed, just
added to the heated pot. Then put in jars and can as usual.
I also normally pressure can even tomatoes as the pressure canner, even
full, weighs much less than a large water bath canner and is easier to
handle. I also nearly always cold pack since to me it seems easier.
I did tried the hot pack both with BWB and pressure canning and they did
not separate. I really could not tell any difference in use, just looks,
so still normally cold pack.
Best I can tell, there is the same amount of 'juice' and tomato by
either method, the unseperated just look better. Since I have begun my
eight decade, I prefer the easier way!
Best,
Bill
MarilynŠ
85 minutes? That's not right. It only takes 40 to 45 minutes in a BWB for plain tomatoes
depending on whether it's pints or quarts. That's per the instructions at
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/tomato_water_pack.html, and it doesn't matter whether
the tomatoes are raw or hot pack. The instructions are the same.
But then I got to thinking...did he add any water to the jars after filling with tomatoes?
There's no mention of adding either water or tomato juice. When doing raw pack, which is
how I've always done it, you have to pack the jars with the tomatoes and then add the salt
and the lemon juice and BOILING water to the headspace of 1-inch. Then seal and put the
jars in the water and start timing when the water comes to a boil. Doesn't matter if the
water is boiling already but I always start with hot tap water so there isn't a
temperature shock between the hot jars (which should be hot from the boiling water you
added to the tomatoes) and the water in the canner. And if I'm doing more than one canner
load in a row, then the water is already almost boiling when I add the second load since
it's still hot from the first load. Oh, and I don't put my jars in the canner to
sterilize. I have them standing inverted in a pan of water (about two inches of water) on
the stove, which has been brought a boil and reduced to a simmer. Jars get steam
sterilized that way.
--
Marilyn
Ross Reid
Snipped most of the lead up.
I wrote:
>>Speaking of
>> timing, I just realized that you are doing raw pack which requires 85
>> minutes in a BWB for both 500ml and 1 liter jars up to 1,000 ft.
>> elevation, longer if you're higher.
>
>85 minutes? That's not right. It only takes 40 to 45 minutes in a BWB for plain tomatoes
>depending on whether it's pints or quarts. That's per the instructions at
>http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/tomato_water_pack.html, and it doesn't matter whether
>the tomatoes are raw or hot pack. The instructions are the same.
>
>But then I got to thinking...did he add any water to the jars after filling with tomatoes?
>There's no mention of adding either water or tomato juice. When doing raw pack, which is
>how I've always done it, you have to pack the jars with the tomatoes and then add the salt
>and the lemon juice and BOILING water to the headspace of 1-inch. Then seal and put the
>jars in the water and start timing when the water comes to a boil. Doesn't matter if the
>water is boiling already but I always start with hot tap water so there isn't a
>temperature shock between the hot jars (which should be hot from the boiling water you
>added to the tomatoes) and the water in the canner. And if I'm doing more than one canner
>load in a row, then the water is already almost boiling when I add the second load since
>it's still hot from the first load. Oh, and I don't put my jars in the canner to
>sterilize. I have them standing inverted in a pan of water (about two inches of water) on
>the stove, which has been brought a boil and reduced to a simmer. Jars get steam
>sterilized that way.
I really don't want to get into an argument over this, it's simply
that the lady said in her original post that she was a newbie canner
and I'd like to keep her headed in the right direction.
She made no mention in the original post that she had added anything
to the tomatoes other than salt and lemon juice. This falls into the
category of whole or halved tomatoes with no added liquid. The
recommended BWB processing time for this method is, as I said, 85
minutes. It is also 85 minutes if tomato juice is added as the liquid.
It's only when hot water is added to raw pack tomatoes that the
process time has been reduced to 40 minutes (pints) or 45 minutes
(quarts).
MarilynŠ
adding the water, except for making stewed tomatoes and maybe it never occurred to me that
you can do them without adding water. Back in the stone age, that's the way I was taught
and that's the instructions I've always followed in the Blue book. But it seems that
you'd have to kind of mush them together in the jar to make sure the jar was filled
properly, to fill in all the air spaces.
The separation has always bothered me but I just figured that's what happens and let it go
at that.
Melba's Jammin'
mrr...@nospam-golden.net wrote:
(OP snipped)
> As far as beets are concerned, IMHO, processing them is a waste of
> time and energy. If you really want to eat them, tasting "earthy"
"Earthy" is just code for saying "they taste like boiled dirt." "-)
like
> they do when fresh out of the garden, I'd suggest freezing but, if you
>I'll have to leave
> that to someone who actually goes to the trouble of pressure canning
> beets. I'm pretty sure that won't be Barb ;-).
Bingo!
> Ross
> Eliminate obvious to email.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, Holy Order of the Sacred Sisters of
St. Pectina of Jella (HOSSSPoJ)
<www.jamlady.eboard.com> Sam pics updated 9-27-02.
Melba's Jammin'
<jha...@REMOVETHISpeoplepc.com> wrote:
Interesting. I'm trying to decide what the heck you did. Almost looks
like you combined two different "recipes." Where'd you get your recipe
and processing information? While there are timetables for raw pack
processing, seems like most instructions recommend or prefer hot pack
(not just tomatoes) because you get rid of some of the air in the
product in the pre-cooking.
I've got the USDA guide on my lap and the instructions for "Tomatoes -
whole or halved (packed in water)" show a 45 minutes processing time.
Those instructions don't mention pressing them into the jar to remove
air bubbles.
The recipe for "Tomatoes - Whole or Halved (packed raw without added
liquid) DO instruct to press into jar until spaces between them fill
with juice. AND have a processing time of 85 minutes. Not 45.
Page 111 of the Ball Blue Book says, re "jar of food fails to seal, many
factors could be involved, such as failure to follow instructions for
using jar and two-piece cap, a particle of food may have been forced
between the jar and lid during processing or underprocessing of food."
They say to re-process within 24 hours for full time or use food
immediately."
As far as the beets? You're making it up as you go along and I don't
recommend it.
No pressure gauge? Really. Gee, what "pressure" do you think you
processed them at? You don't mention pickling them so I assume you did
plain beets. Low acid vegetable. MUST be done under pressure;USDA
guide says 10#psi (weighted gauge, to 1000 feet; 15#psi above 1000
feet) for 30 minutes in pint jars. In a dial gauge pressure canner,
the correct psi is 11# up to 2000 feet (additional minute processing
required for every 2000 feet above that).
I'd ditch the beets for *safety* reasons (not just because they're
disgusting and make me puke--it's a personal thing, so don't be
offended, ok?). Also, a pressure cooker is not the same as a pressure
canner.
You say you're a newbie, Joy. Get a good preserving text and study it.
I'm partial to the Ball Blue Book. Also, check the National Center for
Home Food Preservation: http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/
They're **sort of** a clearing house of scientifically tested
information about home food preservation. Out of the University of
Georgia. They've got a great search engine of various university (USA)
extension offices and their information and findings.
Consider a direct inquiry of the NCHFP folks about your tomato mishaps,
too. If you do that, let us know what they say about it. Good luck.
Mike Hardie
information. I am really trying to learn so I can enter in the State
Fair.
I bought th Ball Blue Book and tried their hot-pack method as shown in
pictures. I ended up with so many floating tomatoes - so I took the
jar to the "old folks home" and some people there said I must not have
pressed the tomatoes down enough to get all the air out.
Then, I was at the library and saw the beautiful book "Preserving" by
Oded Schwartz with the lovely jar of cherry tomatoes on the cover!
But, after I read the book I found that they are stored in the
refridgerator - so can't use that for the Fair.
Then, I found the Time-Life book "Preserving" where it has a full page
color layout of pictures describing the steps for cannong a raw pack
favorite (tomatoes).
1. Core
2. Blanch and peel
3. Pack in jars 1/2 way
4. Add salt & lemon juice, continue packing jars till 1/2" headspace.
5. Load the canner, simmering water 1" above jars
6. Process covered, after it reaches boil for 45 minutes.
<snip>
>The recipe for "Tomatoes - Whole or Halved (packed raw without added
>liquid) DO instruct to press into jar until spaces between them fill
>with juice. AND have a processing time of 85 minutes. Not 45.
<snip>
>As far as the beets?
>No pressure gauge? Really. Gee, what "pressure" do you think you
>processed them at?
This Pressure Cooker cost me about $75. My husband will kill me if I
tell him I got the worng thing. Do you think I can get a pressure
guage for it? It is a Vasconia. I didn't know there was a difference
between a pressure cooker and a pressure canner.
>I'd ditch the beets for *safety* reasons (not just because they're
>disgusting and make me puke--it's a personal thing, so don't be
>offended, ok?).
I hated beets myself till 2 months ago.
I am very appreciative of all this info. Truly Thank You!
Joy
Mike Hardie
fillet roast explode out of the oven while I was following a recipe
from "Bon Appetite". The pyrex pan hit the floor before my foot and I
ended up with 7 stitches. So, I already know that my attempts are
doomed. But, it sure seems like I should be able to put some veggies
in a jar. I will keep trying and take any advice.
I have always entered sewing categories at the fair and I really want
to get something from my kitchen entered. I don't give-up easily.
After the canning, I guess I will learn to bake.
Joy
Melba's Jammin'
<jha...@REMOVETHISpeoplepc.com> wrote:
> Wow! You have all been wonderful in helping me with all the
> information. I am really trying to learn so I can enter in the
> State Fair. I bought th Ball Blue Book and tried their hot-pack
> method as shown in pictures. I ended up with so many floating
> tomatoes - so I took the jar to the "old folks home" and some people
> there said I must not have pressed the tomatoes down enough to get
> all the air out.
Well, there's getting air out of the jar and there's getting the air out
of the product -- cooking (hot pack) rids the product of some of its air.
> Then, I found the Time-Life book "Preserving" where it has a full page
> color layout of pictures describing the steps for cannong a raw pack
> favorite (tomatoes).
> 1. Core
> 2. Blanch and peel
> 3. Pack in jars 1/2 way
> 4. Add salt & lemon juice, continue packing jars till 1/2" headspace.
> 5. Load the canner, simmering water 1" above jars
> 6. Process covered, after it reaches boil for 45 minutes.
Hmmm. The don't talk about smashing them down -- different (to me) than
"packing the jar." I'd have used the term "filling the jar."
Without added *water* (I have no idea why water and not juice) the
processing time should be 85 minutes.
Water-pack -- 45 minutes
Juice-pack - 85 minutes
No-liquid pack - 85 minutes
> >As far as the beets?
> >No pressure gauge? Really. Gee, what "pressure" do you think you
> >processed them at?
> This Pressure Cooker cost me about $75. My husband will kill me if I
> tell him I got the worng thing. Do you think I can get a pressure
> guage for it? It is a Vasconia.
http://www.vasconia.com/Pressure.htm
Their pictures look like they have a pressure regulator (the pressure
gauge I referred to) with them. And they sell spare parts. If you
don't have one, talk to them about it.
I didn't know there was a difference
> between a pressure cooker and a pressure canner.
Do some research. It'll help you get familiar with net searching.
Google.com is your friend.
> I am very appreciative of all this info. Truly Thank You!
> Joy
Melba's Jammin'
<jha...@REMOVETHISpeoplepc.com> wrote:
> In all honesty....Iam a HORRIBLE cook. Once I even had a beautiful
> fillet roast explode out of the oven while I was following a recipe
> from "Bon Appetite". The pyrex pan hit the floor before my foot and I
> ended up with 7 stitches. So, I already know that my attempts are
> doomed. But, it sure seems like I should be able to put some veggies
> in a jar. I will keep trying and take any advice.
Find an experienced someone with whom you can do it.
Ask your local community ed department for a preserving class.
You're flirting with big trouble if you do not correctly process
low-acid vegetables. You're not gonna get into so much trouble if you
screw up, say, a jar of peaches or pears. Or strawberry jam.
> I have always entered sewing categories at the fair and I really want
> to get something from my kitchen entered. I don't give-up easily.
> After the canning, I guess I will learn to bake.
> Joy