Curing prosciutto
fargois
like to cure a prosciutto ham. I've deceided that I'll be trying it
next fall and would like to do as much research as possible before
that time.
I'm curious as to the main differences between prosciutto and a
country style cure. I know that you can eat prosciutto raw but that
you need to cook a country cured ham. Why?
If anyone has actually cured a prosciutto and would like to discuss
the cure mixture/ingredients and the process in total, I would really
appreciate it.
Thanks
Tony
far...@yahoo.com
Hal Landvoigt
Chez Panisse Cafe Cookbook, which is good, and there are a few recipes
online, but I'd like to learn a bit more about it too.
Hal Landvoigt
On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 07:28:51 -0600, fargois <far...@cableone.net>
wrote:
sho...@home.blam
Hi
I've made prosciutto, and country ham. The recipe is simple enough,
and can be printed on the back of a postage stamp. The technique is
not much more complex, if you don't mind experimenting a little.
A leg of ham is rubbed with coarse salt, and left to air dry =
prosciutto.
A leg of ham is injected with salt water at entry points that are
about an inch from each other = country ham.
In the first case, place the whole leg in a container with 4" walls
that has an inch or two of coarse salt. Pick up the coarse salt and
rub the outside of the ham, until your arms can do no more or for 45
minutes. Rub hard. Refrigerate the whole thing, and return the next
day for another round of hard rubbing. Parenthetically. Your hands
will become baby soft. Shake off the excess salt and hang the leg to
air dry in a cold room for several weeks. Before hanging the ham, you
can coat the exterior with powdered cayenne and make a Bayone ham, or
coat it with cracked black pepper, or cracked pepper and cracked
coriander, or something of your own design.
I suggest trying a couple of legs experimentally. Once you perfect a
technique, you have the equivalent of a "trade" in Europe.
The country ham is much easier, especially if you have a motor driven
pump. There are injector units that do this and are made to this and
little else. They can pump flavored liquids as well. It would take a
long time to inject a leg of ham with a manual syringe, but it could
easily be done.
hope this helps
Shotgun
On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 07:28:51 -0600, fargois <far...@cableone.net>
wrote:
>I've recently been doing some reading on prosciutto and I would really
Jack Schmidling
<sho...@home.blam> wrote in message news:3ab684fa...@news.cwnet.com...
> A leg of ham is rubbed with coarse salt, and left to air dry =
> prosciutto.....
Me thinks you simplify a bit too much.
> A leg of ham is injected with salt water at entry points that are
> about an inch from each other = country ham.
In both cases, you left out the use of a nitrite cure without which either
could be deadly.
Injecting a liquid cure is an option to shorten cure time and has little to
do with the type of ham.
>Refrigerate the whole thing.......
Another potential deadly piece of advice. The temp must not be allowed to
go below 38 degrees as the meat will not take up the cure below this point.
Most refrigerators will not meet this requirement.
> The country ham is much easier, especially if you have a motor driven
> pump........
Country ham usually just means it is a dry cured ham that spends several
months in the drying smoking process and is usually uncooked as purchased.
Because of the amount of drying, it is very salty and dry and must be
desalted and rehydrated before serving.
Both types of ham must be cooked before serving. The main characteristic of
the Prosciutti ham is that it is pressed during the curing process and
produces a flat and somewhat compressed piece of meat.
For more info on making your own ham, see my "Ham" page.
js
--
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fargois
wrote:
>
><sho...@home.blam> wrote in message news:3ab684fa...@news.cwnet.com...
>
>
>In both cases, you left out the use of a nitrite cure without which either
>could be deadly.
Actually nitrite is not used in prosciutto, only salt and spices.
There are several varieities of prosciutto, depending on the region
that it comes from, the most common or better known is the Parma
prosciutto.
>
>
>>Refrigerate the whole thing.......
>
>Another potential deadly piece of advice. The temp must not be allowed to
>go below 38 degrees as the meat will not take up the cure below this point.
>Most refrigerators will not meet this requirement.
Here you are totally correct, the air dry cure must occur between the
temps of 38-44. If it falls below 38 the cure time must be extended
several weeks, if over 44... well simply put the meat spoils before it
can absorb the cure.>
>
>Both types of ham must be cooked before serving. The main characteristic of
>the Prosciutti ham is that it is pressed during the curing process and
>produces a flat and somewhat compressed piece of meat.
>
Here you are mistaken, as far as the prosciutto goes, a prosciutto ham
can be eaten raw, actually best if eaten raw.
Jack Schmidling
> There are several varieities of prosciutto, depending on the region
> that it comes from, the most common or better known is the Parma
I can't argue with that but the person was asking how to make it at home
and one would be nuts to do it without cure.
> Here you are mistaken, as far as the prosciutto goes, a prosciutto ham
> can be eaten raw, actually best if eaten raw.
Again, you win but I would not eat raw pork that was not cured and I would
not suggest anyone make it that way. If you get sick from a purchased ham,
at least your heirs have someone to sue.
Never even seen much less tasted one and I am just offering general info
and what I have read about them.
js
Len
> In the first case, place the whole leg in a container with 4" walls
> that has an inch or two of coarse salt. Pick up the coarse salt and
> rub the outside of the ham, until your arms can do no more or for 45
> minutes. Rub hard. Refrigerate the whole thing, and return the next
> day for another round of hard rubbing.
My timing is quite different from what you do. I've cured mine (with
salt and nitrite/nitrate)for two weeks (small leg-about 8 lb.) in the
refrigerator after dry rubbing. My guess is that the large 15+ lb. legs
would take three-four weeks.
>Shake off the excess salt and hang the leg to
> air dry in a cold room for several weeks.
I started one in late Dec. 2000 and it's still not ready (March 21,2001)
sho...@home.blam
>sho...@home.blam wrote:
>> In the first case, place the whole leg in a container with 4" walls
>> that has an inch or two of coarse salt. Pick up the coarse salt and
>> rub the outside of the ham, until your arms can do no more or for 45
>> minutes. Rub hard. Refrigerate the whole thing, and return the next
>> day for another round of hard rubbing.
>
>My timing is quite different from what you do. I've cured mine (with
>salt and nitrite/nitrate)for two weeks (small leg-about 8 lb.) in the
>refrigerator after dry rubbing. My guess is that the large 15+ lb. legs
>would take three-four weeks.
As I recall, the correct application of salt to the hams was the key.
Afterwards the hams were suspended under a commercial kitchen's
roaring exhaust fan for 2-3 days. it then went into a cold room with
carefully controlled humidity. As for using nitrites in a ham that is
NOT to be cooked, that is something that I would NEVER do.
>
>>Shake off the excess salt and hang the leg to
>> air dry in a cold room for several weeks.
>
>I started one in late Dec. 2000 and it's still not ready (March 21,2001)
Again, I think that it is a matter of how much dry air circulates
around that hanging ham. I'm not certain that Parma Prosciutto needs
refrigeration as part of the drying process. The manufacturers are
known to advertise the fact that there are only 4 ingrediants in
their air-dried ham. Pork Salt Air and Time.
"doneness" is measured by the fact that the ham returns to a rosy hew.
Shotgun
Len
This is an interesting discussion :-)
I'm interested in you reasons for objecting to the use of cure in "raw"
ham products. The USDA seems to agree with you about salt, to an
extent. I'm worried about possible meat contamination with Clostridium
botulinum, E. coli, Listeria and Staphlococcus aureus which is
controlled by the use of nitrate/ite cures. BTW there is some research
that the use of garlic, clove and/or cinnamon in the spice mixture
inhibits the growth of E.coli 0 1 5 7:H7 (Kansas State University -Food
Sciences"
While I can see that if meat is vigorously salt rubbed, many bacteria on
the surface will be destroyed; and, under the controlled conditions by
artisans in Parma, it could produce a safe product. In my opinion those
conditions are not necessarily available to the home sausage maker, who
often has to rely on a butcher to provide the pork. The more meat is
handled, the more opportunity for bacterial contamination.
USDA INFO: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/ofo/hrds/STATE/RETAIL/curing.htm.
"To preserve meat and poultry, the undesirable microorganisms on the
meat surfaces that cause spoilage and food borne illnesses must be
inactivated and destroyed. There are many steps that help in this
process, including smoking, cooking, drying, chilling, and addition of
cure ingredients. One of the most effective means of accomplishing this
is by introducing salt into the meat. The resistance of bacteria to
salt varies widely among different types of bacteria. The growth of some
bacteria is inhibited by salt concentrations as low as 3%, e.g.,
Salmonella, whereas other types are able to survive in much higher salt
concentrations, e.g., Staphylococcus."
University of Minnesota:
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/DJ0974.html
"Nitrite in meat greatly delays development of botulinal toxin
(botulism), develops cured meat flavor and color, retards development of
rancidity and off-odors and off-flavors during storage, inhibits
development of warmed-over flavor, and preserves flavors of spices,
smoke, etc."
Jack Schmidling
Len <Len_...@hotmail.com
>
> I started one in late Dec. 2000 and it's still not ready (March 21,2001)
How do you know when it's ready? Weight loss?
js
--
Jack Schmidling
<sho...@home.blam>
>
> As for using nitrites in a ham that is
> NOT to be cooked, that is something that I would NEVER do.
Too many nagetives in that sentence and I can't believe it at face value.
Please try again.
Len
>
> Len <Len_...@hotmail.com
> >
> > I started one in late Dec. 2000 and it's still not ready (March 21,2001)
>
> How do you know when it's ready? Weight loss?
>
> js
Jack, generally I use the touch method. If the proscuitto is very firm
to hard and does not yield to pressure its ready. If it has that "spongy
feeling" (how's that for an exact science?) its not. It's pretty much a
guess. I've cut them and found that the thicker portions are not really
ready, and then had to let them continue to dry. I'm told that some old
timers plug them, like you might do with a watermelon, to see if their
done--I haven't done that. Len
sho...@home.blam
If you ad nitrites to a food product, that food MUST be cooked to
convert the nitrites to nitrates. The alternative is to ingest
nitrites. Poisonous nitrites
On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:59:46 -0600, "Jack Schmidling" <a...@mc.net>
wrote:
>
sho...@home.blam
wrote:
>
>Len <Len_...@hotmail.com
>>
>> I started one in late Dec. 2000 and it's still not ready (March 21,2001)
>
>How do you know when it's ready? Weight loss?
Actually it is visual. The ham reverts from gray to rosy pink. i.e.
as a piece is shaved from the exposed end, the color of the meat
changes color when it is ready to eat.
shotgun
sho...@home.blam
>sho...@home.blam wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:00:21 -0800, Len <Len_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
(snip.....)
>
>I'm interested in you reasons for objecting to the use of cure in "raw"
>ham products.
Nitrites are poisonous. You would only add them to food that is being
cooked. Nitrates are produced from nitritesafter high temperature
cooking. Nitrates are simple harmless salts.
I don't think that nirites will break down into nitrates after air
drying. I say "I don't think" because my experience is limited, and
because nitrites are not used in the manufacture of Parma Proscuitto.
Technique is used instead of USDA type rules. It ocurs to me that
anyone can have a shot at duplicating those techniques, with perhaps
good results if they live in a dry climate. It's worth a shot.
...and you are right. This is a good discussion.
Shotgun
sho...@home.blam
>sho...@home.blam wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:00:21 -0800, Len <Len_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >sho...@home.blam wrote:
(snip...)e is some research
>that the use of garlic, clove and/or cinnamon in the spice mixture
>inhibits the growth of E.coli 0 1 5 7:H7 (Kansas State University -Food
>Sciences"
Add to the list mustard, black pepper, cayenne powder. Air dried ham
has been produced this way for quite some time.
Shotgun
Len
>
> Nitrites are poisonous. You would only add them to food that is being
>
> cooked. Nitrates are produced from nitritesafter high temperature
> cooking. Nitrates are simple harmless salts.
>
> I don't think that nirites will break down into nitrates after air
> drying. I say "I don't think" because my experience is limited, and
> because nitrites are not used in the manufacture of Parma Proscuitto.
> Technique is used instead of USDA type rules. It ocurs to me that
> anyone can have a shot at duplicating those techniques, with perhaps
> good results if they live in a dry climate. It's worth a shot.
>
> ...and you are right. This is a good discussion.
Shotgun,
Its my understanding that nitrite and nitrite mixtures are highly toxic,
but approved (USDA)for human consumption in the following
concentrations: Dry cure--1 oz per 100 lb. of meat; Pickle--200 ppm in
finished product; (Note: Nitrite is limited to 120 ppm in bacon.). The
trade off here for me is the destruction of possible pathogenic bacteria
vs toxicity.
Nitrates do not break down spontaneously to nitrites. Nitrates are not
necessarily harmless. The MSDS for Sodium Nitrate states: "ACUTE
TOXICITY LEVEL: Moderately toxic by ingestion. INGESTION: Large doses
(15-30 g) fatal, smaller doses may cause gastro-enteritis, abdominal
pain, vomiting, muscular weakness, irregular pulse, convulsions and
collapse. Seek medical attention immediately." (15-30g is approx. 1/2
to 1 oz.)....I think you'd have to eat cured product to be affected :-)
Some research indicates that people normally consume more nitrates from
their vegetable intake than from the cured meat products they eat.
Spinach, beets, radishes, celery, and cabbages are among the vegetables
that have very high concentrations of nitrates (J. Food Sci., 52:1632).
The sodium nitrate (NaNO3) that is added in some formulae during
manufacture of dry-cured meats relies on bacteria in the meat to reduce
the nitrate to nitrite and then to nitrous oxide to "cure" the meats.
This is more difficult to control the concentration of nitrite in a
semi-dry sausages. BTW, Bacon cured with nitrites, has been shown to
produce nitrosamines which are carcinogenic, therefore the USDA search
for a nitrite replacement, which I understand to date has not been
successful. That is one of the reasons for the requirement of a lower
level of nitrite in bacon. Also the USDA requires that ascorbic acid
(vitamin C) or erythorbic acid be added to bacon cure since they greatly
reduces the formation of nitrosamines.
Len
Jerry
Nitrates break down into nitrites.
Nitrates should not be cooked at high temperatures because of a suspected link
to carcinogens...
Do us all a favor and either research what you are gonna spew, pr go spew in
your bathroom so we don't have to listen to some half assed "opinion".
sho...@home.blam wrote:
--
Jerry
g.m.f...@worldnet.att.net
http://www.northwestsmoking.com
For Sausage making and smoke flavoring foods with over 900 recipes.
Home of "Sausage Ring"
Jerry
offering any advise, and should also be damn glad you haven't killed
yourself...
If you want to offer your experiences, that is fine, but to start sounding
off like it is gospel, and it is not correct, then you become dangerous.
Now, are you talking sodium Nitirites/Nitrates or are you talking Potassium?
Hmm... seems to be a lot more here then meets the eye... The potassium
versions were "slat Peter" and ARE in fact harmful in more than small
quantities...
But this, of course, is my humble opinion...
> I say "I don't think" because my experience is limited,
Jack Schmidling
<sho...@home.blam>
> If you ad nitrites to a food product, that food MUST be cooked to
> convert the nitrites to nitrates. The alternative is to ingest
> nitrites. Poisonous nitrites...
As far as I know, cooking converts nitrites into notrosamines which are
carcinogenic.
Nitrites are routinely used in uncooked, dry cured products such as salami,
along with nitrates.
The long term, dry curing process converts nitrates into nitrites over time
and this is why nitrates are also used in the same product. The standard
cure, "Prague #2" contains controlled amounts of both. The dry curing
process consumes the nitrites and the slow conversion of nitrate to nitrite
assures a sufficient amount of the latter in the finished product. Nitrate
cures nothing and the conversion to nitrite is too slow for products that
will be consumed soon after making. This is why good old "salt peter" (a
nitrate) is no longer used in enlightened curing.
Where did you come up with this nitrite to nitrate chemistry?
Blanche Nonken
> Nitrates do not break down spontaneously to nitrites. Nitrates are not
> necessarily harmless. The MSDS for Sodium Nitrate states: "ACUTE
> TOXICITY LEVEL: Moderately toxic by ingestion. INGESTION: Large doses
> (15-30 g) fatal, smaller doses may cause gastro-enteritis, abdominal
> pain, vomiting, muscular weakness, irregular pulse, convulsions and
> collapse. Seek medical attention immediately." (15-30g is approx. 1/2
> to 1 oz.)....I think you'd have to eat cured product to be affected :-)
I don't recall the author, but there's a short story called "The Case of
the Eleven Blue Men" about a mysterious illness outbreak in flophouses
in a specific region. Fascinating recounting.
Bill Floyd
Berton Roueche, Annals of Medicine, 1948
Blanche Nonken
That's the name. Fascinating story. I think I have another collection
of his stories around here. The one about the botulism in the old
Italian guy from the marinated mushrooms was particularly chilling.
Especially his comment at the end when he and his assistant had sniffed
at the bowl of 'shrooms the guy's daughter had saved, and despite
knowing it was deadly they were struck at how *appetizing* it smelled.
Michael Sierchio
> The sodium nitrate (NaNO3) that is added in some formulae during
> manufacture of dry-cured meats relies on bacteria in the meat to reduce
> the nitrate to nitrite and then to nitrous oxide to "cure" the meats.
> This is more difficult to control the concentration of nitrite in a
> semi-dry sausages. BTW, Bacon cured with nitrites, has been shown to
> produce nitrosamines which are carcinogenic, therefore the USDA search
> for a nitrite replacement, which I understand to date has not been
> successful. That is one of the reasons for the requirement of a lower
> level of nitrite in bacon. Also the USDA requires that ascorbic acid
> (vitamin C) or erythorbic acid be added to bacon cure since they greatly
> reduces the formation of nitrosamines.
>
1) Saltpeter (KNO3) is also used and easier to control --
2) Nitrosamines and other nitroso- compounds are formed
when grilling, but also by intestinal flora -- unesterified
Vit E and Vit C block the formation of nitrosamines in
the gut, and protect against those in the food.
3) The amount of ascorbate included in bacon is WOEFULLY inadequate.
Better take a capsule after breakfast.
Michael Sierchio
>
> What orifice did you pull this out of?
> Nitrates break down into nitrites.
> Nitrates should not be cooked at high temperatures because of a suspected link
> to carcinogens...
> Do us all a favor and either research what you are gonna spew, pr go spew in
> your bathroom so we don't have to listen to some half assed "opinion".
Uh, well if you're not well-informed, you might as well be rude, too.
There is not a "suspected link to carcinogens," nitrates and nitrates
are known to give rise to carcinogens. The amount present in cured meats
presents an acceptable risk, esp. when compared with the risk of botulism
and other toxins from pathogenic bacteria. And the risk can be mitigate
by increased dietary ascorbates and tocopherols.