HELP! 18 jars Grape Jelly - Not SET!
Bunny McElwee
lot more grapes than the recipe said (I used twice as many grapes and ended
up with a total of 8 c prepared juice). So I made two batches - separately -
and followed the instructions to the tee (I have made 17 batches of jelly
within the last 2 months and this is the first one I have had a problem
with, however it is also the first one I have used Certo Liquid with).
Everything seemed fine, the jelly sheeted off the spoon as normal, and I
pour, seal and all cans sealed within an hour. 3 days later, I find I have
no jelly, but 18 jars of runny syrup. While I don't mind a jar or two of
syrup, I don't need 18! What did I do wrong, can I reprocess and add sure
jell and jar and seal again? I don't mind the trouble, I would just rather
have jelly than syrup! Thanks in advance for any advice. I am usually a
lurker here unless I have a specific problem <G>!
Cooked Grape Jelly - Certo Liquid
4 c prepared juice (3 QT)
1/2 c water
7 c sugar
1 pouch (85 ml) Certo liquid
Wash jars and lids in hot soapy water, rinse and sterilize jars
and lids by (1) boiling in water for 15 minutes (leave in water
til needed.) Lids may be sterilized by placing in boiling water
and boiling 5 minutes(leave in warm water til needed.) Utensils
should also be sterilized.
Stem fruit and thoroughly crush fully ripe grapes. Add water, bring
to a boil and simmer, covered 10 minutes. To extract juice, place
prepared in jelly bag and squeeze. NOTE: To make own jelly bag,
use a square meter of cheesecloth, 3 layers thick. Wet cloth and
spread over a colander or strainer in a bowl. Add fruit. Bring
corners of cloth together. Twist bag or cloth and squeeze to extract
juice. For clearer jelly, use 1 1/2 times fruit called for and let
juice drip through without squeezing.
Using liquid measure, measue the amount of prepared juice and add
to a large 4 to 8 qt pan. Add lemon juice if listed.
Measure sugar. DO NOT REDUCE SUGAR. Add the exact amount of sugar
specified and mix well.
Place pan over high heat; bring to a boil.
At once stir in Certo liquid. Bring to a full rolling boil and boil
hard for 1 minute, stirring constantly. Remove from heat.
Skim off foam with a metal spoon. Stir and skim for 5 minutes.
Pour quickly into prepared jars leaving 1/4 inch head room.
Seal jam at once with 2 piece metal lids or paraffin wax.
Eric
some words prefaced by >> to which I will add some comments.
>> I made the following recipes using Red Globe Grapes. I ended up using a
>>lot more grapes than the recipe said (I used twice as many grapes and ended
>>up with a total of 8 c prepared juice). So I made two batches - separately -
>>and followed the instructions to the tee (I have made 17 batches of jelly
At first blush, it sure sounds like you didn't use double the amount of pectin
and sugar. Doubling recipes is a risk at the best of times. When one doubles a
recipe it requires more heat to cook in the same time. That is important as too
long a time in cooking will ruin the setting action of pectin.
However, the amount of grape you used is not an issue per se. The issue is if
the amount of juice per recipe was the same as for a "single" recipe.
If you used twice as much juice without using twice as much of everything else
you now know the problem. Reprocess in single batch sizes adding the amount of
sugar and pectin that is missing.
>>Seal jam at once with 2 piece metal lids or paraffin wax.
No paraffin wax. It is obsolete and also useless. If a product is not properly
prepared the use of paraffin will not seal it against contagion. Use two piece
lids only and process in BWB. Low sugar recipes of today must be processed in
BWB after sealing as they are more susceptible to spoilage than the high sugar
concoctions of former eons.
Melba's Jammin'
<er...@nospam.getcomputing.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2001 18:23:43 GMT, "Bunny McElwee"
> <corv...@sc.rr.com> wrote some words prefaced by >> to which I
> will add some comments.
>
>
> >> I made the following recipes using Red Globe Grapes. I ended up
> >> using a
> >>lot more grapes than the recipe said (I used twice as many grapes
> >>and ended up with a total of 8 c prepared juice). So I made two
> >>batches - separately - and followed the instructions to the tee (I
> >>have made 17 batches of jelly
>
> At first blush, it sure sounds like you didn't use double the amount
> of pectin and sugar. Doubling recipes is a risk at the best of times.
> When one doubles a recipe it requires more heat to cook in the same
> time. That is important as too long a time in cooking will ruin the
> setting action of pectin.
Re-read it, Eric. I understood her to say that she made two batches,
each using 4 cups of prepared grape juice (as indicated in the recipe
she posted). I'd vote for overripe grapes being at least part of the
culprit -- she has experience making jelly.
(Bunny, see my reply in rec.food.cooking). Sometimes, you just don't
know!
--
-Herself
Eric
wrote some words prefaced by >> to which I will add some comments.
>>Re-read it, Eric. I understood her to say that she made two batches,
The given recipe was for a single batch. She had juice enough for two bathes and
made two batches. She says she has 17 jars of liquid. Something is wayyyy off
and I don't think really juicy grapes can account for that. I did forget to
mention a thought I had but did not include in my earlier post - maybe she has a
stale bottle of pectin. I tried liquid pectin once and only once.
It is not difficult to forget one is working with a non-standard batch size. I
know how easy it is to make a mistake. When working with multiples I use as many
containers as multiples to make SURE I get the proper amount of sugar and pectin
for each. If the ingredients were set out as per the recipe it is easy to miss
the double.
Hillary Israeli
Eric <er...@nospam.getcomputing.com> wrote:
*On Sun, 14 Oct 2001 20:25:19 -0500, Melba's Jammin' <barbsc...@earthlink.net>
*wrote some words prefaced by >> to which I will add some comments.
*
*
*>>Re-read it, Eric. I understood her to say that she made two batches,
*
*The given recipe was for a single batch. She had juice enough for two bathes and
*made two batches. She says she has 17 jars of liquid. Something is wayyyy off
Well - but she also said she started iwth twice as many grapes as called
for.
--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net in...@hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)
Bunny McElwee
replies to this thread but none of them have shown up. I'm not sure what you
think is way off, but I measured everything exactly as the recipe stated:
4c prepared juice
1/2 c water
7 c sugar
1 pouch liquid pectin
That made 9 jars of jelly (or syrup as the case is currently). I then
measured everything exactly AGAIN and made my second batch as the recipe
stated:
4c prepared juice
1/2 c water
7 c sugar
1 pouch liquid pectin.
Unless the above recipe is wrong, I measured exactly as the recipe stated
for each batch I made. Each batch produced 9 jars of jelly. Do you still
believe I am way off or maybe your later statement of a bad batch of pectin
is to blame? When making a recipe that calls for liquid pectin (such as
Certo) can you substitute Sure-Jell dry????
"Eric" <er...@nospam.getcomputing.com> wrote in message
news:3pmkst0k15rvuoj7t...@4ax.com...
Bunny McElwee
>
> >> I made the following recipes using Red Globe Grapes. I ended up
using a
> >>lot more grapes than the recipe said (I used twice as many grapes and
ended
> >>up with a total of 8 c prepared juice). So I made two batches -
separately -
> >>and followed the instructions to the tee (I have made 17 batches of
jelly
>
> At first blush, it sure sounds like you didn't use double the amount of
pectin
> and sugar. Doubling recipes is a risk at the best of times. When one
doubles a
> recipe it requires more heat to cook in the same time. That is important
as too
> long a time in cooking will ruin the setting action of pectin.
>
> However, the amount of grape you used is not an issue per se. The issue is
if
> the amount of juice per recipe was the same as for a "single" recipe.
>
> If you used twice as much juice without using twice as much of everything
else
> you now know the problem. Reprocess in single batch sizes adding the
amount of
> sugar and pectin that is missing.
No, I made 8 cups of juice, but followed the recipe. I made two batches,
not a double batch.
4c juice
1/2 c water
7 c sugar
1 pouch certo pectin
Thats the what the recipe called for and thats what I used, two times
(since I had 8 cups of juice total)
>
> >>Seal jam at once with 2 piece metal lids or paraffin wax.
>
> No paraffin wax. It is obsolete and also useless. If a product is not
properly
> prepared the use of paraffin will not seal it against contagion. Use two
piece
> lids only and process in BWB. Low sugar recipes of today must be processed
in
> BWB after sealing as they are more susceptible to spoilage than the high
sugar
> concoctions of former eons.
I didn't use paraffin (never have, never will). I only use two piece
lids.
David J. Braunegg
sure that you added the sugar first, then the pectin (as the recipe
calls for)? This is the reverse of using powdered pectin and your hands
might have been on autopilot.
Dave
Bunny McElwee
I know that they say that sometimes we just end up with syrup, but I am just
not sure I understand why. Especially since it sheeted off the spoon so
nicely. I never would have suspected anything wrong. Its been sitting for 6
days now and its gotten no thicker. I think I will pull it all out and try
to do a re-process with some of the suggestions I received and see what
happens. I check a web page that Melba gave to me and it told me how to
re-process, I just hope it works. I hate to think all this work will end up
down the drain!
"David J. Braunegg" <d...@mitre.not-this.org> wrote in message
news:3BCB1999...@mitre.not-this.org...
Melba's Jammin'
McElwee" <corv...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
> I don't know if this will get to you guys or not, I have written
> several replies to this thread but none of them have shown up.
I saw one in r.f.cooking and see four from you here, Bunny, including
this one. (I've included more comment within the post below.)
> I'm not sure what you think is way off, but I measured everything exactly as the recipe stated:
>
> 4c prepared juice
> 1/2 c water
> 7 c sugar
> 1 pouch liquid pectin
>
> That made 9 jars of jelly (or syrup as the case is currently). I then
> measured everything exactly AGAIN and made my second batch as the recipe
> stated:
>
> 4c prepared juice
> 1/2 c water
> 7 c sugar
> 1 pouch liquid pectin.
(Chuckling at presentation of the data): I understood what you did from
the beginning, Bunny. I think Eric did not.
> Unless the above recipe is wrong, I measured exactly as the recipe
> stated for each batch I made. Each batch produced 9 jars of jelly. Do
> you still believe I am way off or maybe your later statement of a bad
> batch of pectin is to blame? When making a recipe that calls for
> liquid pectin (such as Certo) can you substitute Sure-Jell dry????
In a word, no. The recipes are not interchangeable. And I don't know
any formula for making them so. I seem to remember Scott Heimdall or
Dave Braunegg having a successful experience by accident; don't remember
if he posted any ruminations about the particulars of doing it on
purpose. :-)
As far as Eric's suggestion that an expired bottle of pectin might be
the culprit --- well, if it came out of a bottle, it was expired:
Liquid Certo has been packaged in foil pouches for quite a while. Two
pouches = 1 old-fashion brown bottle, Eric. <grin> Ball's new liquid
fruit pectin is also in a foil-type pouch.
More seriously, I've never had an "expired pectin product" experience.
I've used pectin a year past its "use by" date without trouble. As far
as liquid vs powder, you pays your money and you takes your choice.
I've had First Place winners at our State Fair with liquid and powder
pectin products, both; with SureJell and Ball both.
I am still more inclined to believe that the trouble was due to overripe
fruit (I mentioned this in the r.f.cooking post, IIRC). More, if there
is not enough acid present, you won't get a gel. How much is enough? I
don't have a number, ratio, or percentage; I get by well enough without
the particulars.
Please let me know if you think I can be of more help.
Best regards,
Barb Schaller
>
>
>
> "Eric" <er...@nospam.getcomputing.com> wrote in message
> news:3pmkst0k15rvuoj7t...@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 14 Oct 2001 20:25:19 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> <barbsc...@earthlink.net>
> > wrote some words prefaced by >> to which I will add some comments.
> >
> >
> > >>Re-read it, Eric. I understood her to say that she made two
> > >>batches,
> >
> > The given recipe was for a single batch. She had juice enough for
> > two bathes and made two batches. She says she has 17 jars of
> > liquid. Something is wayyyy off and I don't think really juicy
> > grapes can account for that. I did forget to mention a thought I
> > had but did not include in my earlier post - maybe she has a stale
> > bottle of pectin. I tried liquid pectin once and only once.
> >
> > It is not difficult to forget one is working with a non-standard
> > batch size. I know how easy it is to make a mistake. When working
> > with multiples I use as many containers as multiples to make SURE I
> > get the proper amount of sugar and pectin for each. If the
> > ingredients were set out as per the recipe it is easy to miss the
> > double.
>
>
--
-Herself
Melba's Jammin'
McElwee" <corv...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
> Yes, I put the sugar in first. I'm beginning to think I have gone
> crazy.
It's not you, Bunny, it's "them." "-)
I know that they say that sometimes we just end up with
> syrup, but I am just not sure I understand why. Especially since
> it sheeted off the spoon so nicely.
Beats me. Maybe Ma and Vicky (the bona fide Master Food Preservers
here) are doing some quiet research and will come up with something to
calm you. Ingrid? Vicky?
> I never would have suspected
> anything wrong. Its been sitting for 6 days now and its gotten no
> thicker. I think I will pull it all out
Do the test batch first, as the instructions instruct before you open
all 18 jars, fercryinoutloud.
>and try to do a re-process with some of the suggestions I received and
see what happens. I check a web page that Melba gave to me and it told
me how to re-process, I just hope it works.
Me, too!
>I hate to think all this work will end up down the drain!
No reason it has to go down the drain. You just have to change your
"marketing scheme! " "-) Grape Syrup -- add some sparkling water or
lemon-lime beverage for a refreshing beverage!! Grape Syrup -- a new
treat for your French toast, waffles and pancakes! Grape Syrup -- you
get my drift?
Hang in there, Kiddo!
-Barb
>
>
>
> "David J. Braunegg" <d...@mitre.not-this.org> wrote in message
> news:3BCB1999...@mitre.not-this.org...
> > You said that this was your first time using liquid pectin. Are you
> > sure that you added the sugar first, then the pectin (as the recipe
> > calls for)? This is the reverse of using powdered pectin and your
> > hands
> > might have been on autopilot.
> >
> > Dave
--
-Herself
Melba's Jammin'
<er...@nospam.getcomputing.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2001 20:25:19 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> <barbsc...@earthlink.net>
> wrote some words prefaced by >> to which I will add some comments.
>
>
> >>Re-read it, Eric. I understood her to say that she made two batches,
>
> The given recipe was for a single batch. She had juice enough for two
> bathes and made two batches.
That is, in fact, what she said: "So I made two batches - separately -
and followed the instructions to the tee (I have made 17 batches of
jelly within the last 2 months. . . ."
>She says she has 17 jars of liquid. Something is wayyyy off
Yeah, her jelly didn't.
What's "wayyyy off"? Nine jars of jelly from a recipe? My plum jelly
recipe yields 10 half pint jars *per batch* -- 5-1/2 cups juice, 7-1/2
cups sugar -- not exactly the same measures as Bunny's/Certo's grape
jelly project, but close enough to demonstrate that getting more than 5
or 6 jars from a batch of anything is possible.
>and I don't think really juicy grapes can account for that.
>I did forget to mention a thought I had but did not include in my
>earlier post - maybe she has a stale bottle of pectin.
If it was from a bottle, it was old. :-) (It's been in foil packets
for quite a long time now.)
>I tried liquid pectin once and only once.
I've had good luck -- no, great luck, with both the powdered or the
liquid. Must be something you're doing? "-)
> It is not difficult to forget one is working with a non-standard
> batch size.
And she didn't.
-Barb Schaller
--
-Herself
The Cook
I do not remember ever seeing a recipe for grape jelly using thin
skinned "table grapes." My first reaction is that the thin skinned
grapes do not make good jelly. I have made jelly from Concords with
Certo many times and have not had a problem with gelling. I have had
my share of fruit syrups tho.
Susan N.
Eric
some words prefaced by >> to which I will add some comments.
>>4c prepared juice
>>1/2 c water
>>7 c sugar
>>1 pouch liquid pectin.
>>Unless the above recipe is wrong, I measured exactly as the recipe stated
That sure is a LOT of sugar. The pectin I use stipulates grams and ml but
knowing what each amounts to I can say the volume of each ( juice and sugar )is
about the same.
>>for each batch I made. Each batch produced 9 jars of jelly. Do you still
>>believe I am way off or maybe your later statement of a bad batch of pectin
>>is to blame? When making a recipe that calls for liquid pectin (such as
It just so happens I had a packet of Certo in deeeeeeep storage. It appears the
Certo folks will want to know the "best before date" if you call with a setting
problem. I bet they'd tell you to reprocess with fresh pectin. Stale liquid
pectin may not be such an anomaly after all.
>>Certo) can you substitute Sure-Jell dry????
I think the pectin was stale as the recipe you used is exactly that which Certo
gives for their product.
If you reprocess, you will be adding pectin as though none exists. However you
have to work backwards from the sugar.
Find a pectin you like and take the sugar quantity in their recipe batch as your
base.
You may have to get more grape juice to get the juice part correct for the
amount of sugar you have in play. To make life easier it might be better to
remix the inputs by emptying all 16 - 17 jars into a large pot. Once the inputs
of water, juice and sugar are correct on math it is time to adjust the taste.
If too sweet, add a pinch or two of citric acid. Careful ... citric acid is
sneaky. It doesn't seem to amount to anything and then WOOF! you are past where
you want to be. A 4 quart batch which is sweet ( prior to pectin) can be
substantially improved by the addition of 1/4t citric acid. You will ladle a
correct batch size into your cooking pot then add the new pectin. You can make
a batch that is 25% larger but go further than that and the heat output must be
far more to avoid overcooking - time cannot be increased. In the current
circumstance I encourage you to stick with the same batch size as before. It is
far better to get more juice and work up to a full three batches if that is what
it takes to keep things in line.
No fear you can save what you have. Just take your time. Get you pectin and
post its recipe for grape jelly. Lot's of folks will have tips on reprocessing.
Melba's Jammin'
>Low sugar recipes of today must be processed in BWB after sealing as
>they are more susceptible to spoilage than the high sugar concoctions
>of former eons.
What low sugar recipes are those? Made with regular pectin? Not true.
The common amount of sugar used when making jellies without the addition
of commercial pectin is 3/4 to 1 cup sugar for each cup of prepared
juice. Jellies made with commercial pectin use more sugar than juice;
that's one of the reasons some folks like to NOT use commercial pectin
in their fruit spreads -- too much sugar.
--
-Herself
Melba's Jammin'
susan_...@yahoo.com wrote:
> "Bunny McElwee" <corv...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >I made the following recipes using Red Globe Grapes. I ended up
> >using a lot more grapes than the recipe said (I used twice as many
> >grapes and ended
(snip)
> I do not remember ever seeing a recipe for grape jelly using thin
> skinned "table grapes." My first reaction is that the thin skinned
> grapes do not make good jelly. I have made jelly from Concords with
> Certo many times and have not had a problem with gelling. I have had
> my share of fruit syrups tho.
>
> Susan N.
Susan, this whole thing really has my curiosity piqued. With everything
I've read from Bunny on this, I'm more and more convinced that her lack
of success is due to the wrong choice of product to start with. The
Certo leaflet specifies Concord grapes for the juice-to-jelly. I've
been looking into it but don't have any information just yet.
I know that some cultivars of strawberries, for example, are not
recommended for preserves; I will not be the least surprised if we find
out that the same is true for grapes. I sure hope that's what's behind
it, because I'm about flummoxed on it! <grin>. Pretty funny if it's
been right under our collective noses.
Best,
Barb Schaller
--
-Herself
Melba's Jammin'
McElwee" <corv...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
> I made the following recipes using Red Globe Grapes. I ended up using
(snip)
> Cooked Grape Jelly - Certo Liquid
(detailed particulars snipped for brevity)
Bunny:
Looks like your Grape Syrup and Beverage Mix, cum Pancake/Waffle/French
Toast Topping is a result of *using the wrong variety of grapes." I
posted your question to the folks at the California Table Grape
Commission (and their resident recipe weenie) this morning and this is,
in part, the response I just received. Yeay!! Mystery solved!
"I'm sure the person who used the Red Globe grapes had trouble with her
jelly because Red Globes are much sweeter than Concords. When using
commercial pectin, the manufacturer designs the formula for a specific
ratio of sugar to pectin. The manufacturer's recipe should be followed
exactly, down to the variety of grapes. Many people who have tried to
decrease the amount of sugar in their recipe have found that they end
up with syrup instead of jelly. Liquid pectins, like Certo, sometimes
produce a jelly that is thinner than those made with powdered pectins.
However, it is still jelly and not syrup."
Good luck with *whatever* you decide to do with your syrup!
Best regards,
Barb Schaller
--
-Barb Schaller
www.JamLady.eboard.com
Bunny McElwee
.....JELLY!!!!! YEAH!!!
Worked like a charm and from what I tasted, it tasted pretty good. I realize
that I may have used the wrong type of fruit. However, the recipe (which I
got of of a web page from something called the Recipe Archives) just listed
what I listed in my messages. It never specified what type of grape to use.
I never thought to look at the recipe sheet for the Certo Liquid. Thank you
so much for your help with this. I really do appreciate it.
BTW, that brings me to another question. I have printed many recipes
from the net for various jellies and jams, etc and a lot of them don't
specify what type of the specific fruit to use. How do I know? I just got a
few recipes that I wanted to try, but now I am unsure of myself because I am
not an expert. Is there some kind of "table" you go by as to which type of
fruit to use (such as what type of grape WOULD I use for grape jelly besides
Concord which its almost impossible to get here in the South). What if I
wanted to make Plum Jelly or Orange Jelly? Thanks again or all your help
above and beyond the basic
information. It really helps to have someone who knows what they are doing
to help those of us who are still learning!
"Melba's Jammin'" <barbsc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:barbschaller-E4FE...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
Ellen Wickberg
discovered, are another thing. The grape that I have seen used in the south
( at airport shops and such) is called muscadine. At least I think that it
is a grape from the discussions that I have had with people. Orange and
plum don't seem to be so touchy, since orange juice is fairly similar and
you need to use a juicy plum to get much out of it. Ellen
----------
In article <C6qz7.12311$Hw3.2...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>, "Bunny
Melba's Jammin'
McElwee" <corv...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
> I followed the re-processing instructions and I now have 18 jars of
> .....JELLY!!!!! YEAH!!! Worked like a charm and from what I tasted,
> it tasted pretty good. I realize that I may have used the wrong type
> of fruit. However, the recipe (which I got of of a web page from
> something called the Recipe Archives) just listed what I listed in
> my messages. It never specified what type of grape to use.
> I never thought to look at the recipe sheet for the Certo Liquid.
> Thank you so much for your help with this. I really do appreciate it.
You're welcome. I want a jar of that &*^@)$^% jelly!! I think I earned
it! (I'll send you a jar or two of my stuff. . . )
> BTW, that brings me to another question. I have printed many
> recipes from the net for various jellies and jams, etc and a lot
> of them don't specify what type of the specific fruit to use. How
> do I know?
About the best thing I can suggest, Bunny, is just to check the leaflet
of the pectin product and see if they give any hints. A quick look at
the Certo leaflet specifies Concord grapes for the grape stuff, but
nothing specific for other types of fruits. Nowadays.
I have some old (20+ years?) Certo and SureJell leaflets -- laminated in
plastic! The old Certo info has separate recipes for cherry jam (sweet
and sour types of fruit), plum jam (for sour clingstone and sweet
freestone). There's even a separate section for marmalades! (One for
peach marmalade, too.)
> I just got a few recipes that I wanted to try,
Care to share?
> but now I am unsure of myself because I am not an expert.
Sure you are! If it doesn't work, you now know how to remake it! "-)
Hey! I've got a batch of strawberry topping from May of this year!
It's great as topping and I didn't want to muck around with a remake.
The second batch was fine jam! :-)
>Is there some kind of "table" you go by as to which type of fruit to
>use (such as what type of grape WOULD I use for grape jelly besides
>Concord which its almost impossible to get here in the South). What if
>I wanted to make Plum Jelly or Orange Jelly?
Some may consider it heresy, but I've made grape jelly (most of the
time, in fact) with Welch's bottled grape juice.
I think for most fruits it's not so critical. Because I'm not a grape
jelly fan, I don't get involved with it often.
I use the old recipe for my plum jelly, Bunny: SureJell powder
(regular; the low-sugar recipes result in a less clear product), 5-1/2
cups plum juice, 7-1/2 cups sugar (the "new" flyer uses 6-1/2 cups
sugar). My plums are small and grow on tree in my backyard that my mom
gave us 32 years ago (and it's dying -- it may come down next year.).
About the size of a walnut. When they're pinkish yellow, the jelly is a
very light pink; the later batches are redder -- I don't get to the
fruit until it's quite riper. The color comes from the skins -- which
are pretty sour!
Orange Jelly? I wouldn't worry about that -- they're pretty acid. I
think I made orange jelly from frozen juice one year.
Do you have any paper books on the subject? There are some good ones
out there and if you actually study the info provided besides just the
recipes, there's info to be gleaned.
>Thanks again or all your help above and beyond the basic information.
>It really helps to have someone who knows what they are doing to help
>those of us who are still learning!
You kidding me? I haven't had this much fun in a while! <grin>
Next time check the pectin box info just in case, eh? "-)
Barb Schaller
--
-Barb Schaller
www.JamLady.eboard.com
Melba's Jammin'
<er...@nospam.getcomputing.com> wrote some words prefaced by > to which I
have added a remark:
> On Mon, 15 Oct 2001 05:17:30 GMT, "Bunny McElwee" <corv...@sc.rr.com>
> wrote some words prefaced by >> to which I will add some comments.
>
> >>4c prepared juice
> >>1/2 c water
> >>7 c sugar
> >>1 pouch liquid pectin.
(snippage)
> I think the pectin was stale as the recipe you used is exactly that
> which Certo gives for their product.
The Certo recipe specifies Concord grapes. Bunny used Red Globe table
grapes.
--
-Barb Schaller
www.JamLady.eboard.com
George Shirley
borne singly on individual stems. I've harvested wild muscadines for 50 years and now am growing
"tame" ones. They make excellent jellies and you use the same recipe you would for Concord grapes. I
had some muscadine jelly with my biscuits this morning.
George
David J. Braunegg
Food By) mentions that eastern Concord grapes have more pectin than
western Concord grapes. I am pretty sure that the American grapes
(Vitis labrusca) like Concord have higher pectin levels than the
European grapes (V. vinifera) that are typically used for wine.
IRRELEVANT DIVERSION:
Ephraim Bull developed the Concord grape variety by crossing native
grapes, then named it after his hometown, Concord, MA (where I now
live). You can even visit his grave site at a local cemetery. Welch's
still has its headquarters in town, and there are some grape vines in
the lot of their old headquarters building on Main Street.
BACK TO OUR STORY:
As for other fruits, I think there might be a difference in pectin
levels between European plums (Prunus domestica), Japanese plums (P.
salicina), and Damsons and Mirabelles (P. insititia). I love Damson
plum preserves on waffles with whipped cream!
Sweet cherries and sour (pie) cherries are also different.
When making jams and jellies without added pectin, you are supposed to
use 25%(?) under-ripe fruit for the higher levels of pectin they
contain. The Sure-Jell instructions warn you: "USE FIRM RIPE FRUIT.
Over-ripe fruit makes a soft set. Under-ripe fruit makes a firm set."
That about exhausts what I know on the subject.
Dave
Ellen Wickberg
----------
In article <3BCEDA86...@bellsouth.net>, George Shirley
George Shirley
and squeeze the muscadine. You get the meat and the seeds, toss the skin. When I make jelly with
them I use the skins and all to make the juice and then strain through muslin.
George
Eric
wrote some words prefaced by >> to which I will add some comments.
>>>Low sugar recipes of today must be processed in BWB after sealing as
>>>they are more susceptible to spoilage than the high sugar concoctions
>>>of former eons.
>>What low sugar recipes are those? Made with regular pectin? Not true.
Barb, the "regular" pectin which is lb for lb of fruit and sugar is hard to find
anywhere these days. Low and ultra low sugar pectins are half and lower
quantities of sugar. Whether jam or jelly the "proportions of each pectin to
another from any one manufacturer" will be similar.
>>The common amount of sugar used when making jellies without the addition
>>of commercial pectin is 3/4 to 1 cup sugar for each cup of prepared
I have an English book, circa 1917, on jams and jellies which does not use any
commercial pectin. Matter of fact, it doesn't _call_ for pectin per se. The
amount of sugar used is today quite scary. All the recipes use the gelling
point of straight sugar!
Some examples:
quote
"Rowan jelly - 1 lb of sugar per pint of juice ( some people double this
quantity)." unquote
l lb of sugar is nearly twice (1.816) the volume of a pint.
So if that book is truthful, some folks were using a bit of juice with the
sugar. I have retained the book strictly for historical purposes.
>>juice. Jellies made with commercial pectin use more sugar than juice;
>>that's one of the reasons some folks like to NOT use commercial pectin
>>in their fruit spreads -- too much sugar.
You are benchmarking 'regular' pectin. The low sugar pectin is far less sugar on
the taste - about 50% less. The ultra low pectin is so low ( about 75% less than
regular) in sugar that a person who likes a bit of sugar may find the ultra low
to be tasteless.
For Marigold, I am still trying to get a retail supplier for a pectin that is
derived strictly from apples. The manufacturer sells only to trade as far as i
know at this point. I am also trying to determine if the pectin I use, Dr
Oetker, is derived from apples. It is quite probable that it is, and equally
unlikely that it is derived from citrus. However, that is not factual enough. I
am trying to get the Dr. Oetker people to talk. So far they are not inclined to
disclose any proprietary information.
Eric
some words prefaced by >> to which I will add some comments.
>> I followed the re-processing instructions and I now have 18 jars of
>>.....JELLY!!!!! YEAH!!!
What exactly did you do?
>> BTW, that brings me to another question. I have printed many recipes
>>from the net for various jellies and jams, etc and a lot of them don't
>>specify what type of the specific fruit to use. How do I know? I just got a
>>few recipes that I wanted to try, but now I am unsure of myself because I am
If you will be using a pectin you will use what the pectin manufacturer supplies
with its product. Otoh, the Dr. Oetker pectin I use has given me excellent
results across a wide spectrum. I have not yet run into a situation that this
product could not handle. Mind you, I would not use an ultra low pectin for red
currant jelly. Red currant is anemic with anything less than lb for lb.
>>not an expert. Is there some kind of "table" you go by as to which type of
>>fruit to use (such as what type of grape WOULD I use for grape jelly besides
>>Concord which its almost impossible to get here in the South). What if I
>>wanted to make Plum Jelly or Orange Jelly? Thanks again or all your help
Get yourself a copy of Putting Food By or Ball Blue Book. BBB's content is more
modern and less traditional than PFB. As to regional aspects - do get in touch
with the local Lions Club, Home and School ... civic organizations. Many have
published cookbooks which have preserving recipes adapted or well proven with
reputable manufacturer's products.
Melba's Jammin'
<er...@nospam.getcomputing.com> offered words prefaced herein with >, to
which I offered:
> On Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:21:14 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> <barbsc...@earthlink.net>
> wrote some words prefaced by >> to which I will add some comments.
> >>In article <bm1kstg4ava9nf0q6...@4ax.com>, Eric
> >><er...@nospam.getcomputing.com> wrote:
>
>
> >>>Low sugar recipes of today must be processed in BWB after sealing
> >>>as they are more susceptible to spoilage than the high sugar
> >>>concoctions of former eons.
>
> >>What low sugar recipes are those? Made with regular pectin? Not
> >>true.
> >>
>
> Barb, the "regular" pectin which is lb for lb of fruit and sugar is
> hard to find anywhere these days. Low and ultra low sugar pectins
> are half and lower quantities of sugar. Whether jam or jelly the
> "proportions of each pectin to another from any one manufacturer"
> will be similar.
Eric, you've done gone and lost me. When you or anyone else uses the
term "regular" pectin, I assume that you are speaking of one of the
readily available commercial pectin products (Ball, Kerr, Certo,
SureJell, or Bernardin) that are NOT labeled "for recipes with reduced
sugar" or "lower sugar recipes". Then there are the "less sugar
required" 'regular' pectin products which ARE labeled that way. AFAIK,
they are powder products only. SureJell makes one, and there are, I
think, a couple others whose names escape me right now. Ball has one.
Mrs. Wage's. And due to that reduced sugar content you bet they
especially need to be processed in a boiling water bath.
And THEN there are the low methoxyl pectins that use a calcium-water
solution to effect the gel set. The one I'm most familiar with is
Pomona's Universal Pectin -- you can make a fruit spread with a range
of sweetener from zero to "some, but less than a regular pectin product
would require." (My words, not Pomona's.) (And if you check prices
online, I saw an outrageous $6 for the same 1-oz box that's sold for
$2.60 on another site. I ran a simple google search on "Pomona's
Universal Pectin."
Here, have a gander:
http://www.permaculture.net/Pomona/
> >>The common amount of sugar used when making jellies without the
> >>addition of commercial pectin is 3/4 to 1 cup sugar for each cup of
> >>prepared
>
> I have an English book, circa 1917, on jams and jellies which does
> not use any commercial pectin. Matter of fact, it doesn't _call_ for
> pectin per se.
Um, I think that's what I said.
> The amount of sugar used is today quite scary. All the recipes use
> the gelling point of straight sugar!
You pays your money, you takes your choice.
>
> Some examples:
>
> quote "Rowan jelly - 1 lb of sugar per pint of juice
A standard ratio.
( some people
> double this quantity)." unquote
Maybe they like it sweeter? Beats me.
> l lb of sugar is nearly twice (1.816) the volume of a pint.
I beg your pardon? I just weighed (an electronic digital scale,
calibrated against a 4 oz stick of butter) a pound of sugar and it
weighs -- ready? 16 ounces avoirdupois :-) And it measures 2 cups and
2 tablespoons by volume. A 16 fl. oz pint of water (2 cups by volume,
American measure, just under 500ml) weighs 16 ounces -- the same one
pound. Which fits nicely with my statement above about -- here, let me
copy it down:
"The common amount of sugar used when making jellies without the
addition of commercial pectin is 3/4 to 1 cup sugar for each cup of
prepared (juice)"
> So if that book is truthful, some folks were using a bit of juice
> with the sugar. I have retained the book strictly for historical
> purposes.
Looks like the standard version you quote is a pound/pint, with more
sugar being a variation. The recipes I've seen for Rowan jelly involve
apples, undoubtedly for their pectin content to help effect a set for
the Rowan juice. Those recipes use a cup of sugar for a cup of prepared
juice. One recipe stated a pound of sugar to a 575-600ml pint of juice.
Perhaps because it's a Scottish recipe, the measure is different. Dunno.
> >>juice. Jellies made with commercial pectin use more sugar than juice;
> >>that's one of the reasons some folks like to NOT use commercial pectin
> >>in their fruit spreads -- too much sugar.
> I am also trying to determine if the pectin I use, Dr Oetker, is
> derived from apples. It is quite probable that it is, and equally
> unlikely that it is derived from citrus.
Why do you believe that to be true? Enquiring Mind Wants to Know.
--
-Barb Schaller
www.JamLady.eboard.com
Melba's Jammin'
>
> For Marigold, I am still trying to get a retail supplier for a pectin
> that is derived strictly from apples.
Have you suggested that she make her own? There are recipes.
--
-Barb Schaller
www.JamLady.eboard.com
Marigold
time I will continue boiling down apple peels or using high pectin fruit and
slow cook recipes.
Marigold
"Eric" <er...@nospam.getcomputing.com> wrote in message
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