Beehive oven
Robert Desel
My wife and I recently purchased a federal colonial in Charlestown MA.
We believe that is house was built in 1790 with the "new" kitchen
added in 1793. The original kitchen was in what is now the cellar
and it has a fireplace and bee hive oven. The fireplace does not work
as the flue is used for our furnace. However in the "new" kitchen
there is another fireplace with a beehive oven to the right and what
we thought was a cavern for storing wood below the oven. But this is
only a guess on my part.
I am trying to understand how this would have been used and possible
to use it for some baking.
The beehive oven has a steel door with a vent and there us a flue in
the oven that connects to the main fireplace flue.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
R. Desel
Antique Books
On Fri, 27 Dec 1996 21:15:01 GMT, ro...@ix.netcom.com (Robert Desel)
wrote:
>I am trying to understand how this would have been used and possible
>to use it for some baking.
>
>The beehive oven has a steel door with a vent and there us a flue in
>the oven that connects to the main fireplace flue.
>
>Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
>R. Desel
I have the antique information on this from a couple of antique books,
but at this time, I am not going to post or reply any other means
either because of some of the snotty people on this newsgroup wanting
to display down with up.
Sincerely;
Margie
Http://www.alice.net/rarebooks
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The tail of the cat is stepped on, the other end yells.
Bernard Jensen
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Desel
On Fri, 27 Dec 1996 21:58:26 GMT, mk9...@navix.net (Antique Books)
wrote:
>I have the antique information on this from a couple of antique books,
>but at this time, I am not going to post or reply any other means
>either because of some of the snotty people on this newsgroup wanting
>to display down with up.
>
>Sincerely;
>Margie
>Http://www.alice.net/rarebooks
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>The tail of the cat is stepped on, the other end yells.
>Bernard Jensen
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
I dont get it.
Joseph M. Carlin
Robert Desel wrote:
>
> My wife and I recently purchased a federal colonial in Charlestown MA.
> We believe that is house was built in 1790 with the "new" kitchen
> added in 1793. The original kitchen was in what is now the cellar
> and it has a fireplace and bee hive oven. The fireplace does not work
> as the flue is used for our furnace. However in the "new" kitchen
> there is another fireplace with a beehive oven to the right and what
> we thought was a cavern for storing wood below the oven. But this is
> only a guess on my part.
>
> to use it for some baking.
>
> The beehive oven has a steel door with a vent and there us a flue in
> the oven that connects to the main fireplace flue.
>
> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
> R. Desel
Robert:
There are a number of good books on this topic which you might want to
consult. I would recommend the following:
Trammels, Trenchers, Tartlets: A Definitive Tour of the Colonial Kitchen
by Joyce W. Carlo, Peregrine Press, Publishers, Old Saybrook, CT., 1982
Colonial Kitchens, Their Furnishings, and Their Gardens. Frances Phipps.
Hawthorn Books, Inc., New York 1972
The Boston Public Library should have both or you can get them on
inter-library loan.
I don't have any titles on this topic in my catalog or at my web site.
But, some of the facsimiles of early American cookbooks which I sell do
have instructions on how to bake, make a fire, etc.
I hope the above information is useful.
Joe Carlin
Food Heritage Press
foo...@shore.net
http://www1.shore.net/~foodbks
Joseph M. Carlin
carolyn taylor
>10Robert Desel wrote:
>10>
>10> My wife and I recently purchased a federal colonial in Charlestown MA.
>10> We believe that is house was built in 1790 with the "new" kitchen
>10> added in 1793. . However in the "new" kitchen
>10> there is another fireplace with a beehive oven to the right and what
>10> we thought was a cavern for storing wood below the oven. But this is
>10> only a guess on my part.
>10>
>10> I am trying to understand how this would have been used and possible
>10> to use it for some baking.
>10>
>10> The beehive oven has a steel door with a vent and there us a flue in
>10> the oven that connects to the main fireplace flue.
>10>
>10> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>10>
>10> R. Desel
I have never used this particular type of oven but I have baked in a "miners"
oven that had been built into the side of an eight foot cliff and the process
is probably similar. The oven was a hole like a small cave at waist level
lined with concrete and floored with fire brick. There was a stove pipe that
went up from the back of the oven through the dirt to the top of the cliff.
With the vent in the door open you built a fire in the oven and kept it
burning for two or three hours while you prepared, raised and formed your
bread dough. French bread type dough was great. Then you raked out the coals
and ashes and allowed the oven to cool to bread baking temperature. At this
point you closed the vent in the door, placed a flat rock on top of the
chimney and put the bread into bake. It was crusty and delicious. It does
taste better if you avoid resinous woods since they leave deposits.
Good luck,
Carolyn
Srlohnes
R. Dresel wrote:
>My wife and I recently purchased a federal colonial in Charlestown MA.
>We believe that is house was built in 1790 with the "new" kitchen
>added in 1793. The original kitchen was in what is now the cellar
>and it has a fireplace and bee hive oven. The fireplace does not work
>as the flue is used for our furnace. However in the "new" kitchen
>there is another fireplace with a beehive oven to the right and what
>we thought was a cavern for storing wood below the oven. But this is
>only a guess on my part.
>I am trying to understand how this would have been used and possible
>to use it for some baking.
>The beehive oven has a steel door with a vent and there us a flue in
>the oven that connects to the main fireplace flue.
>Any information would be greatly appreciated.
You may want to contact Old Sturbridge (Massachusetts) Village about their
adult education classes. My wife took a one day class on baking in a
beehive oven about this time last year. It was a "hands on" class, about
a dozen people. They cooked several breads, a pie, cookies, etc., and
learned how to use a beehive oven.
Jon Guite
In article <5a73i5$bog...@annex-178.bmi.net>, carolyn taylor
<cta...@bmi.net> writes
the Iron Age. A friend of mine who is an archaeological scientist,
and fires it by the method described above. I'm told the results
are very good. I'm going to visit him, so hope to try it myself.
I'll report back (unless ruin all the food in which case I'll keep
quiet!)
--
Jon
When replying by email, please remove the popped zit from the end of my
return address!
Bill Bracewell
In article: <32c426d8...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> ro...@ix.netcom.com
(Robert Desel) writes:
<snip>
>
>
Sorry for the late reply but I've been stricken down with flu following
a hectic new year.
Firstly - don't *traditonal* woodfired pizza ovens work on the same
principle?
I have seen beehive ovens - but not with a flue. I've read about how to
use them but never had the opportunity to use one myself.
Basically you light a fire in the main cavity with brushwood and faggots
(bundles of twigs). Gorse was sometimes used. The flames/smoke just
came out of the oven door - makes you wonder where the smoke went when
they were built into a house. I think the trick must be to keep the
fire hot so that the smoke is burnt off and only hot exhaust gasses coem
out. Probably make sure that your faggots are very dry. After an hour
or two you raked out the wood ashes and put in your bread first and then
things to be baked at lower temeperatures, like pies and pastries. The
oven door helped to keep up the temperature.
Sometimes there is a gap at the front of the hearth for ashes to fall
down when they are raked out - and may then be shovelled out when they
are cool.
I saw the remains of a large oven in Edinburgh Castle last week, which
is very much as described above.
I helped to organise a living history at Carlisle Castle where there is
an oven in the castle wall - but they wouldn't let me use it for health
and safety reasons (:-(
There is also a reconstructed oven outside at my local museum - I'll
have to see if they'll let me fire it up sometime!
Hope this helps!
--
Barnacle Bill
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Live Folk in Yorkshire, Montagu's Regiment, Binary Files Index
& Bill O'th Hoylus End - all on http://www.bracewel.demon.co.uk/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Desel
Thanks for the information. I guess this all makes sense. I
neglected to mention that there is cavity below the oven. I
originally thought that it ws to store wood. However after spending a
few days at home with a fire in the fireplace from 8:00am till 5pm (as
they would have when the kitchen was built) I discovered that the
cavity only hold enough wood for about 3 hours of a fire (not very
practical. This cavity has no flue but is just as deep as the oven.
The oven does have a flue which connects to the main flue on the
fireplace.
RD
Penelope Wythes
In message <320d6758...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
rob...@ix.netcom.com (Robert Desel) writes:
> I
> neglected to mention that there is cavity below the oven. I
> originally thought that it ws to store wood. However after spending a
> few days at home with a fire in the fireplace from 8:00am till 5pm (as
> they would have when the kitchen was built) I discovered that the
> cavity only hold enough wood for about 3 hours of a fire (not very
> practical. This cavity has no flue but is just as deep as the oven.
Could this be a secondary slower oven? Fire up main oven for bread -
use secondary for all those joints and puddings our ancestors used to
send to the bakers to be cooked. I've always assumed the family
baking function was secondary to the main business of making bread -
and a second externally heated oven would fit this.
Penny
N/V/S Fazakerley
In article <320d6758...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, rob...@ix.netcom.com
(Robert Desel) wrote:
> I discovered that the cavity only hold enough wood for about 3 hours of a
> fire
The cavity below the oven is almost certainly a place where you can dry the
wood for your next baking. You would only need a fire in the oven for about
45 minutes if the hearth is in use generally. If you fire it for longer it
can get as hot 400C.
I regularly bake in an oven like this at a Museum. The one I use has no
flue, just a door which has to be left ajar to keep the fire going with a
good draft.
Aoife there is a book by Tom Jaine called Building a Wood-fired Oven for
Bread and Pizza, ISBN0907325 70X.
He has built his own which supplies one of his restaurants in Devon, or
something like that.
Hope this helps.
Vibeke
--
===========================================================================
N + V + S + J + P Fazakerley <f...@argonet.co.uk>
====================== 202MHz 200MIPS ACORN Risc PC =======================
Bill Bracewell
In article: <5bdc29$c6e$2...@news.ptd.net> L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt
<lion...@postoffice.ptd.net> writes:
>
<snip>
> There must be a huge amount of versatility to an oven such as these. I
> wish I knew where I could find one (or directions to build one) so
that I
> could play with it!
>
> Aoife
>
Here are two www references (the first is from my reeanctor links at
http://www.bracewel.demon.co.uk/monties/reenurls.htm )
1. http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/ovens-msg.html
This is a collection of posts about using brick ovens at SCA events
2. http://www.ftech.net/~regia/ovens.htm
This shows the building and using of a Saxon style oven in England
Further to this thread does anyone have any references about using
portable ovens in the 17th Century? How did the armies in the ECW bake
bread on campaign?
I have a mention of portable ovens being used on campaign somwhere, but
no details.
Dick Cleek
Al Noble and I tried to survey what little is known of these structures
in North America. Here's what we put together for THE OLD BARN BOOK: A
FIELD GUIDE TO NORTH AMERICAN BARNS AND OTHER FARM STRUCTURES (shameless
plug- paperback out Nov'96)
BAKEOVENS In areas of English, Scots-Irish and Dutch colonial
influence, bakeovens were generally built into the
kitchen hearth inside the house. The French, Belgian,
Spanish, German and other settlers built separate bakeoven structures.
Fig. 145
Spanish-Mexican Adobe or stone covered in adobe, beehive shaped.
Rarely larger than 4' in diameter, raised on a one foot high plinth of
stone or adobe. Often occur in
groupings. Also used to finish pottery. Adopted by Pueblo Indians.
other terms: horno
range: southwestern United States
Canadian French Brick or stone more common than clay. If clay,
usually covered by wooden shed or gable roof to
protect the domed clay structure. Ovens are oval, pear shaped
or rectangular and raised on wooden plat- forms.
range: Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia
variant: A rare, massive stone bakeoven with a large chimney
at the front. The vault is usually of brick
and covered with a wooden hipped or gable roof resting
on top of stone walls surrounding the vault.
Belgian Brick and/or stone, usually attached to the rear gable of
the summer kitchen and accessed from the inside of the kitchen.
Bakeoven set on platform of limestone, 6' to 7' square and about 4'
high.
range: Door and Kewaunee counties, Wisconsin
German Usually a separate, free-standing structure, although
attachment to a summer kitchen and attachment to the main house
fireplace are also found. In cases where
bakeovens are attached to a structure, they extend
beyond the wall and often are covered with a wooden
roof. Large structures of 8' to 12' including a 3'
roof overhang toward the front. Normally, only tri-
angular projecting overhang is enclosed, but sometimes
sidewalls and even end wall with door enclose the
projection. Gable roof is wooden shingle or slate and is
supported by corner posts elevating roof 3' to 4'
above oven. Brick chimney at rear.
range: Pennsylvania
variant 1: Chimney and flue located at front of
bakeoven.
range: eastern Pennsylvania
variant 2: Chimney at front of bakeoven, but flue opening is
at the rear and connected by curved flue.
Called "squirrel-tail" oven.
range: Bucks County, Pennsylvania
MKorki
I am sorry I don't have the original thread to snip for you.
There are two sorts of beehive ovens that are getting mixed up here.
The Colonial one was a dome shaped chamber built into a fireplace
or its chimney. This had no chimney of its own. In one age they were in
the BACK of a wall in fireplace. They were fired with wood and when hot
enough they were raked out and food was put in and closed over with a
wooden or metal door. In another age they were on the FACE of the
fireplace and the only thing that kept the smoke out of the kitchen was a
good draft across the face of the oven and back into the main fireplace.
This does not sound like such a good idea.
The other Beehive, mentioned in the thread just above was an
OUTDOORS contraption, much larger, and used either by a community or a
business. It took more wood and more effort to fire it. I am not
familiar with the presence of chimneys/vents or not. In Johnstown
Pennsylvania I was on an archeological dig with the park service at the
Wagner Ritter House where they found evidence of such an oven. This one
appeared ato have been built on piers or legs instead of on the ground or
on rubble fill. Apparantly this one oven served the neighborhood and
other neighbors provided the wash house or other neccesities. From what I
remember it was supposed to be fired only once or twice a week. If you
are interested in this you might call the Johnstown Flood Museum or the
America's Industrial Heritage Project.
If you are interested in the indoor, fireplace accessory sort of oven,
Mystic Seaport has a cooking class and probably publications
Mike
Dan
Masonry oven construction plans are available from Ovencrafters:
<oven...@nbn.com>. Hundreds of ovens have been built to these plans.
Alan Scott and I have just handed in the draft of a comprehensive book
on building and using masonry ovens and baking naturally fermented
breads, which will include plans for a household oven. Won't be out
until the Fallof 1997 or Spring of 1998. Chelsea Green Publishing in
Vermont is putting it out. They have another book also underway about
clay ovens.
Dan Wing
eemiii
Dan,
I am very interested in your book. I have restored one of two brick
ovens in my 1740 house. The first on was easy because most of it was
still intact. However the second is not there at all. I would like to
have it rebuilt, but would like to investigate the history of these
ovens a bit more before I decide on the design. Like my first oven, I
would like to make the second completely functional.
Although I have some information regarding the use of these ovens, I
seek more detailed information on their construction and use. If I
promise to order you book, (and I do!), is there any way I can get some
advance information prior to fall of ’97?
Let me know what you think.
Ernie
p.s. My first oven actually has a flue just inside its front opening.
I’ve been told is a rare feature. Any insights?
Dr. Mark E. Williams
I'm also interested in your book. Please let me know when it will be
published and approximately its cost.
Additionally, I tried to email the address you gave - oven...@nbn.com
and my mail tool returned it as address unknown. What went wrong?
You may send a email to me or post, however my newsreader has been
acting up lately.
Mark
--
Dr. Mark E. Williams
Bldg N-159, Rm E-215
NASA/GSFC/WFF/EG&G
Wallops Island, VA 23337
757-824-1744
will...@color.wff.nasa.gov
Be ye doers of the word and not hearers only, lest ye deceive
yourselves.
James 1:22