Ancient Greece - What was 'Bulls Blood'?
Deborah Wright
I know this isn't, strictly speaking, about an Historic Food, but I hope
somebody can help me here.
'The Histories' by Herodotus (circa 5th century BC Greece) refer to
"drinking bull's blood" as a way to commit suicide. One of the 'Falco'
novels (70's AD Rome) also mentions this. In 'Wide Sargasso Sea' by Jean
Rhys (1830's Jamaica) the Jamaican servant offers strong coffee to her hated
master saying "Taste my bull's blood".
Since drinking bull's blood generally isn't fatal I take this to be the once
common discription for some kind of poison, the identity of which has since
been forgotten. Does anybody know what bull's blood really was in this
connotation, please?
The only promising result I had searching the internet was a reference to
Bull's Blood Beetroot - but I rapidly concluded that the only way this could
prove fatal would be if someone swollowed one whole and choked! A less than
noble end.:)
Thanks,
Deborah
*******
Richard Wright
There is also Bull's Blood red wine from Hungary, but I can vouch for
the fact that this wine doesn't kill you.
There was a general belief in classical Greece that bull's blood
coagulated and choked the victim. Themistocles died the same way.
I suppose it must be the case that bull's blood doesn't kill you,
since the African Masai drink blood from their cows (mixed with milk,
however).
If the tales have any foundation then presumably somebody slipped
something poisonous into the blood.
A commentary on Herodotus writes of the general belief:
Unfortunately that is a source with subscriber access only, so you
would have to find a library that subscribes to Perseus to read it.
However that source also gives a cross reference to Aristotle's belief
that bull's blood has special coagulating properties, though its fatal
properties on ingestion are not mentioned:
http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/history_anim.3.iii.html
Scroll down to Part 19. But strengthen your stomach before reading it
- perhaps with some Hungarian bull's blood.
Richard
On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:11:24 -0000, "Deborah Wright"
<iod...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I know this isn't, strictly speaking, about an Historic Food, but I hope
>somebody can help me here.
>
>'The Histories' by Herodotus (circa 5th century BC Greece) refer to
>"drinking bull's blood" as a way to commit suicide.
<snipped>
bogus address
> 'The Histories' by Herodotus (circa 5th century BC Greece) refer to
> Since drinking bull's blood generally isn't fatal I take this to be
> the once common discription for some kind of poison, the identity of
> which has since been forgotten. Does anybody know what bull's blood
> really was in this connotation, please?
Pliny reported that cinnabar (mercury sulfide) was produced when
a dragon and an elephant fought to the death and their blood mingled.
Another red mineral that wouldn't do you a lot of good if you ate it
is realgar (arsenic disulfide) but I haven't heard any yarns like that
about it.
About the only way I think of to get this back on-topic is to ask if
anybody's ever seen any recipes for preparing dragon...
========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data and recipes,
freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources
Richard Wright
It looks as if you are spot on with realgar.
Here is the missing yarn.
It is a paper by D. Arnould* of the Sorbonne who cites many examples
of death by bull's blood. From the philology and grammar he concludes
that it is a substance from a classical pharmacopia. The most likely
candidate he concludes is realgar (arsenic sulphide), which was known
in the classical world. It is an orange-red soft mineral (often used
cosmetically as a rouge) and was used as a medicine in the time of
Hippocrates..
According to Arnould, the Greek physician Nicander in the 2nd century
BC gives an account of death by 'bull's blood'. The symptoms emulate
what we know of death by arsenic.
I shall never look in the same way again at a bottle of Hungarian
Bull's Blood wine
Richard
*D Arnould (1993) "Boire le sang de taureau": la mort de Thémistocle.
Revue de Philologie, LXVII,2; 229-235.
Deborah Wright
"Richard Wright" <rich...@tig.com.au> wrote in message
news:3bf98ec5...@news.syd.ihug.com.au...
> There was a general belief in classical Greece that bull's blood
coagulated and choked the victim. Themistocles died the same way.
> However that source also gives a cross reference to Aristotle's belief
that bull's blood has special coagulating properties, though its fatal
properties on ingestion are not mentioned:
It's certainly true that "in times of old" (read - "I can't remember exactly
when") ox blood was a major component in fire-extinguishers because it
spread over the base of the fire and then congealed rapidly to starve the
fire of oxygen.
"bogus address" <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:83...@purr.demon.co.uk...
> Pliny reported that cinnabar (mercury sulfide) was produced when a dragon
and an elephant fought to the death and their blood mingled. Another red
mineral that wouldn't do you a lot of good if you ate it is realgar (arsenic
disulfide) but I haven't heard any yarns like that about it.
>
> About the only way I think of to get this back on-topic is to ask if
anybody's ever seen any recipes for preparing dragon...
Nearest I can find is "How to Cook a Leather Armchair"...
Richard Wright" <rich...@tig.com.au> wrote in message
news:3bfb57a...@news.syd.ihug.com.au...
> Jack:
>
> It looks as if you are spot on with realgar.
(snip)
>The most likely candidate he concludes is realgar (arsenic sulphide), which
was known in the classical world. It is an orange-red soft mineral (often
used cosmetically as a rouge) and was used as a medicine in the time of
Hippocrates..
This is more how I imagined - some kind of commomly known, easily available
red toxin either in a liquid state or mixed with e.g. red wine - beit
Hungarian or otherwise!
You've both been really helpful - much appreciated.
Thanks!
Deborah
*******
John Kane
> Deborah:
>
> There is also Bull's Blood red wine from Hungary, but I can vouch for
> the fact that this wine doesn't kill you.
Of course not he says as he picks up a glass of Bull' Blood wine. :)
Can you give clearer reference for Herodotus? I only have a small Oxford Press version and cannot locate anything that
looks appropriate.
>
> >I know this isn't, strictly speaking, about an Historic Food, but I hope
> >somebody can help me here.
> >
> >'The Histories' by Herodotus (circa 5th century BC Greece) refer to
> >"drinking bull's blood" as a way to commit suicide.
>
> <snipped>
------------------
John Kane
The Rideau Lakes, Ontario Canada
Richard Wright
Penguin Classics edition of The Histories.
Richard
On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 22:42:51 +0000, John Kane <jka...@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
Opinicus
news:3BFED001...@sympatico.ca...
> Can you give clearer reference for Herodotus? I only have a small Oxford
Press version and cannot locate anything that
> looks appropriate.
http://perseus.csad.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Hdt.+3.15.1
--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse http://kanyak.com
Opinicus
Apollodorus: "Argonautica"
"Now Pelias, despairing of the return of the Argonauts, would have killed
Aeson; but he requested to be allowed to take his own life, and in offering
a sacrifice drank freely of the bull's blood and died."
http://perseus.csad.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Apollod.+1.9.27 (See the
footnote too. There are also a couple of potentially useful "historical
recipies" from Medea's kitchen in the same passage.)
Bull's blood seems to have had at least one other use in antiquity:
Pausanias: "Description of Greece", Bull's blood as an ordeal of chastity
"The test applied is drinking bull's blood. Any woman who may chance not to
speak the truth is immediately punished as a result of this test."
http://perseus.csad.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Paus.+7.25.1
{No indication as to how the results of the test were to be interpreted
however...}
marilyn traber
reference to the scythians painting patterns on their cloth in
plant juices and the patterns lasting as if they had been woven
in?
pretty please?
margali
--
~~~~~
The Quote Starts Here:
Deborah Wright
>
> > Deborah:
> >
> > There is also Bull's Blood red wine from Hungary, but I can vouch for
> > the fact that this wine doesn't kill you.
>
> Of course not he says as he picks up a glass of Bull' Blood wine. :)
>
> Can you give clearer reference for Herodotus? I only have a small Oxford
Press version and cannot locate anything that looks appropriate.
Hi John!
The version of H's 'The Histories' I was referring to was from the Penguin
Classics range (ISBN 0-14-044638-9) trans. Aubrey de Selincourt, revised
with an Introduction and Notes by John M. Marincola.
The passage occurs in Book III at the end of ch.15 - "He [Psammenitus] was
caught trying to raise a revolt among the Egyptians, and as soon as his
guilt was known by Cambyses, he drank bulls blood and died on the spot. And
that was the end of Psammenitus."
The Notes on this (III, 8) simply comments that "Suicide by drinking bulls
blood is common enough in ancient literature... the more surprising in that
the drink is not fatal, as could easily have been demonstrated (one
assumes)."
There's no suggestion as to what bulls blood could have been - hence my
question here.:)
Hope that helps,
Deborah
*******
John Kane
Thanks to everyone who replied to my question here. I found it. I even vaguely
remember having read it :(
--
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NATIONAL ARCHAEOLOGICAL MUSEUM, Athens, Greece;
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Internationally exhibited photographic artist Algis
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The stone, which forms the back-
grounds of the photographs, is also from
antiquity. Kemezys chose the holy rock upon
which sits the Athenian Acropolis, and that of
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museum's former director, Dr. George
Kakavàs, declared Born in Stone the most
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he has ever seen.
This interest in sculpture and the infinite visual possibilities of stone is an
on-going theme in Kemezys' work. It began in childhood, when his mother showed
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