AMOAZON.COM knives
Alex Hlebnik
kitchen knife set from Amazon.com.
( Sabatier Precision 14-Piece Stainless Steel Knife Set with Block )
The ad said that they were original, authentic Sabatier knives. But
what I got was no authentic product. The knives were cheap copies of
the original ones. The word "Sabatier" is poorly painted on the knives
and it has already faded, but the word "China" is proudly printed on
the blades. I have a 9-year old "Laser" kitchen knife set and it?s way
better than this set. The knives I bought from Amazon.com are already
dull while the Laser set is still very sharp.
Does a big and famous company like an Amazon.com have the right to
cell fake products without letting a buyer know that they are fake ?
Lars
Алекс
Ernie Prang
"Alex Hlebnik" <leha.h...@luukku.com> wrote in message
news:fd890v4kkucpshriq...@4ax.com...
It is less an issue of Amazon selling "fake" Sabatiers than it is of
Sabatier selling out their name and reputation by marketing inferior
products made in Asia with their name. You got real, authentic, genuine
Sabatiers. You just didn't get Sabatier "Elephant" or one of the other fine
lines. Nothing in the Amazon blurb (the current one, at least) says that
they are the "Made in France" Sabatiers. You should have been warned by the
picture of the chef's knife and the bevel on it.
a.l
"Ernie Prang" <knig...@diagon.alley> wrote in message
news:wQ2N9.34615$F2h1....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Or by the price... If I remember correctly, this 14 piece set was insanely
cheap.
bla...@starband.net
understand is that Sabatier is not a manufacturer. It is a brand name.
Historically it has been a consortium of French cutlery makers who sell some
or all of their product through this well established brand name. Some of
these makers are small and some, like Lagouile and Thiers Issard are
substantial. But the consortium has done some oem buying in China and put
their brand name on it.
I think this kind of activity is beginning to come to roost. As an example,
last December (a relatively poor December for us on the internet, we sold 15
9 pc. block sets of Henckels Pro S cutlery) This year we sold none - zero -
and we had the biggest December in our history. Sales of Henckels Pro S
were poor. Very poor this year. We sold plenty of Wusthof block sets,
though, and lots and lots of Japanese brands like Global, Kasumi and Kai.
What's the reason for this? Well I'd have to guess but my guess is that
Henckels has diluted the power of their brand name. They stopped forging
knives in their Solingen facility several years ago in favor of welding
separate parts together. I don't suggest this makes a bad knife. It
doesn't. But people perceive forged cutlery as a positive feature. At
about the same time, they introduced the International series which are made
for Henckels, not by Henckels in other countries. The International Classic
(similar to Pro S ) is actually forged in a Spanish foundry and some people
say it is as good as the Pro S itself but at about 60% of the price. That
doesn't do much for the Pro S series. It's possible that Henckels sales of
International Classic more than make up for the sales of Pro S. I'm not
privy to the information so I don't know.
In the meantime Wusthof has grown and grown and had a pretty successful
Christmas season on our web site. We sold about the same number of Wusthof
sets as we did last year and a whole lot more open stock. I'm not
suggesting Wusthof is superior to Sabatier or Henckels, but they have never
diluted their brand name. Every single Wusthof knife is made by Wusthof in
their plants in Germany. All the bolstered models are forged as they always
have been. The stamped models are all stamped, ground and assembled by
Wusthof. There aren't any Chinese Wusthofs or OEM Wusthofs. You get what
you expect to get every time and I think this makes a difference.
It is possible that this kind of brand dilution has begun to hurt the brands
that practice it. Logically it should be so. People are people and they
will think less of a brand that sells less quality than it used to. The
original poster obviously has a lower opinion of the Sabatier brand now than
he used to.
Just a guess but I can't come up with any other logical explanation for the
change in consumer buying habits. I think Sabatier and Henckels have both
diluted their brand names and I think they are paying a price for it. If
someone else has some better speculation than mine, I welcome it.
Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com
Sheellah
piece Sabatier Grand Chef knife and block set for about $111 I think, shipped
free. More money of course, but a much better knife and deal. I would return
the one you got--Amazon says they take it back within 30 days, and try for that
one, as some of their specials I notice are repeated.
H. W. Hans Kuntze
> What's the reason for this? Well I'd have to guess but my guess is that
> Henckels has diluted the power of their brand name.
I agree, but they have also achieved the purpose of confusing the consumer, too
lazy or ignorant to do a little research.
And that's what it seems all about.
How else can you explain that the same HI Classic set that I paid $ 65 for a few
month ago for testing no goes for $ 185 on Ebay.
While the Wuesthof Grand Prix Block set (a better knife) goes unsold for $ 100
and change.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2082334283
People don't know what they are buying.
> At
> about the same time, they introduced the International series which are made
> for Henckels, not by Henckels in other countries.
Henckels actually owns these companies, if not outright, than as a majority
share holder, at leas the spanish facilities, labor in Germany is way too
expensive.
> The International Classic
> (similar to Pro S ) is actually forged in a Spanish foundry and some people
> say it is as good as the Pro S itself but at about 60% of the price. That
> doesn't do much for the Pro S series.
Yeah, I said that to Hartmut Sieg, the Henckels Rep. a few month ago, now the
chickens are coming home, look for the Pro-S going for a song and dance on ebay,
look for much more after X-Mas, unsold inventory..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=32880&item=2082217091&rd=1
(
> It's possible that Henckels sales of
> International Classic more than make up for the sales of Pro S. I'm not
> privy to the information so I don't know.
Just read their quarterly P&L.
> It is possible that this kind of brand dilution has begun to hurt the brands
> that practice it.
No doubt about it, but Sabatier accomplished that many eons ago, unless you
bought the exact marque, like lion, trumpet, etc.
There was and still i a lot of garbage under that name on the market.
> Logically it should be so. People are people and they
> will think less of a brand that sells less quality than it used to.
Memories are short, as long as these companies can coast on the name.........
> The
> original poster obviously has a lower opinion of the Sabatier brand now than
> he used to.
I guess he should have given credence to "you get what you pay for", sometimes a
good looking deal is none.
Look at what you buy, ask questions. Although their CC's are morons, not better
than a trained monkey. Just fire off an email and watch the answer, usually it
does not relate to your question.
I wrote to Amazon several times, telling them that the description of their
products is p**ss poor to say the least.
Unless I know exactly what is is I'm buying there, I don't trust them farther
than Fido can poop.
But that is true with a lot of merchants nowadays, especially since the internet
craze, caveat empteor.
Big corporations change hands frequently, name brands get ruined overnight.
Still, life goes on.
--
Gruesse.
C=¦-)§ H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
" Die einfachsten Dinge sind sehr kompliziert " Morgenroete
http://www.cmcchef.com And zen ve vil tak over ze vorld! ;-)
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Ernie Prang
<bla...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:CO8N9.6465$hm.166...@twister1.starband.net...
We sold plenty of Wusthof block sets,
> though, and lots and lots of Japanese brands like Global, Kasumi
What do you think of Kasumi knives? Recently I have seen Kasumis in a
couple of shops and they *look* great. Are they sharp/easy to sharpen/easy
to maintain? I don't mind working on my knives, and the shops also carried
the Kasumi 240/1000 whetstone. I was thinking of asking Santa for the
paring knife, $69.00 Canadian. Would Santa be getting a good knife?
a.l
"Ernie Prang" <knig...@diagon.alley> wrote in message
Curious, what store you saw these in, and where. I am assuming this is in
Canada, right?
(I am looking for some Kasumi's, and want to stay inside Canada for my
order)
By the way, that price is quite amazing. The only Kasumi paring knife I have
seen online, is a 3" one, that sells for about $80 USD
Guinness Mann
bla...@starband.net says...
> Some of these makers are small and some, like Lagouile and
> Thiers Issard are substantial.
Are you certain about Lagouile? I thought that Lagouile
was the name of a French village and that several
manufacturers shared it...
> In the meantime Wusthof has grown and grown and had a pretty
> successful Christmas season on our web site. We sold about
> the same number of Wusthof sets as we did last year and a
> whole lot more open stock. I'm not suggesting Wusthof is
> superior to Sabatier or Henckels, but they have never
> diluted their brand name. Every single Wusthof knife is
> made by Wusthof in their plants in Germany. All the
> bolstered models are forged as they always have been. The
> stamped models are all stamped, ground and assembled by
> Wusthof. There aren't any Chinese Wusthofs or OEM Wusthofs.
> You get what you expect to get every time and I think this
> makes a difference.
Absolutely. In the olden days (around 20 years ago) I
bought nothing but Henckels 4-Star. I dropped out of
cooking for a while, but recently when I re-emerged, the
cooking store I frequent had completely quit carrying
Henckels and urged me to shift to Wusthof.
I still think the Henckels 4-star line is prolly as good as
it ever was, but I don't want to deal with someone if I have
to carefully inspect the box to make sure it's a *real*
product and not a cheap knock-off with their name.
-- Guinness
Webmarketing
under various names. I believe the manufacturer is Sumikama in Seki, Japan.
We sell these knives under the brand name of Kai Shun so we can discount
them (the U.S. distributor of Kasumi doesn't like discounting.) Kai is a
fairly large company as it goes in the cutlery industry so stock levels have
been very good right through the Christmas season.
These knives are a little heavier than the Global knives with slightly
thicker blades and are lighter than European bolstered knive. They feature
forge welded stainless steel in the typical japanese tradition. This
provides an almalgam of hard steel for edge retention and soft steel for
toughness. The edges are hardened to RC 60. The handles are black wood
with a triangular ergonomic shape and the knives are a little blade heavy,
at least in the larger sizes. The blades are thin and the bevels acute in
the characteristic Japanese way. The patterns are Western and they a good
selection of patterns except for a boning knife and a flexible filet..
I have a Kai 10" chef and it is the 10" chef that I keep in my knife block
so it is the one I use regularly. It is so sharp I use it in place of a
bread knife. It cuts like a scalpel and doesn't leave the wavy marks a
serrated knife often leaves on the bread from the sawing action. I have
used it for about a month so I haven't yet had occasion to sharpen it. The
chairman of our local culinary school bought a couple of them, loved them
and raved about them at a local ACF meeting. At least a half dozen other
chefs have come into our store since then to buy one or two and have also
raved about them as have a number of the students at the culinary school.
So some professionals in our area endorse them to be sure. I'm not the only
one.
Owning and using them have the same issues that would surround most of the
Japanese made knives. They take longer to sharpen (but need it less often)
and, since they have acute bevel angles should be sharpened by hand by the
owner. Taking them to a typical sharpening service will simply turn them
into something more like Western knives. Hope this helps.
Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com
"Ernie Prang" <knig...@diagon.alley> wrote in message
news:TU9N9.35427$F2h1....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
>
Webmarketing
> Are you certain about Lagouile? I thought that Lagouile
> was the name of a French village and that several
> manufacturers shared it...
Yes, you are right. I was referring to the major cutlery manufacturer
located there. I've forgotten the name.
Fred
Knife Outlet
Ernie Prang
"a.l" <alar...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:afdN9.209413$ea.42...@news2.calgary.shaw.ca...
>
> Curious, what store you saw these in, and where. I am assuming this is in
> Canada, right?
>
> (I am looking for some Kasumi's, and want to stay inside Canada for my
> order)
>
William Ashley China on Bloor Street, Toronto (www.williamashley.com - the
knives are not on the website, nor does the website have online buying).
Peppercorns or the Peppermill or somesuch - new kitchenware store in the
Hazleton Lanes shopping plaza in Yorkville, Toronto. I don't think they
have a website yet.
HTH
scorpiogirl
> > It is less an issue of Amazon selling "fake" Sabatiers than it is of
> > Sabatier selling out their name and reputation by marketing inferior
> > products made in Asia with their name. You got real, authentic, genuine
> > Sabatiers. You just didn't get Sabatier "Elephant" or one of the other
> fine
> > lines. Nothing in the Amazon blurb (the current one, at least) says that
> > they are the "Made in France" Sabatiers. You should have been warned by
> the
> > picture of the chef's knife and the bevel on it.
> >
> >
>
> Or by the price... If I remember correctly, this 14 piece set was insanely
> cheap.
Exactly. I paid the insane price of $9.60 for this set (Amazon gold
box special)! For that price, the quality is fantastic. If you want
top of the line knives, you aren't going to get it for practically
free!