Sharpening meat cleaver - what angles?
hwc
I've got a new Henckels meat cleaver that I haven't gotten around to
sharpening yet. It appears to have machine made convex bevels. I'll be
putting new bevels on it with an Edge Pro, leaving most of the width of
the convex bevels alone.
Anyone have any good recommendations for bevel angles on a meat cleaver?
I'm guessing somewhere between 24 and 36 degrees on each side since you
need a fairly durable edge rather than shaving capability. I just use it
for whacking up chicken bones and stuff like that.
What have you guys found from experience?
H. W. Hans Kuntze
> Hey guys:
>
> I've got a new Henckels meat cleaver that I haven't gotten around to
> sharpening yet. It appears to have machine made convex bevels. I'll be
> putting new bevels on it with an Edge Pro, leaving most of the width of
> the convex bevels alone.
>
> Anyone have any good recommendations for bevel angles on a meat cleaver?
> I'm guessing somewhere between 24 and 36 degrees on each side since you
> need a fairly durable edge rather than shaving capability.
15-16 secondary, 32 primary, but it depends on the thickness of the blade.
The thicker the blade, the steeper the angle, up to 40 is fine.
> I just use it
> for whacking up chicken bones and stuff like that.
For that you can use shallower angles, if it is a kitchen cleaver, even as
low as 22-25.
--
Gruesse.
C=¦-)§ H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
" Die einfachsten Dinge sind sehr kompliziert " Morgenroete
http://www.cmcchef.com And zen ve vil tak over ze vorld! ;-)
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
hwc
"H. W. Hans Kuntze" <han...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3DF01F70...@earthlink.net...
> 15-16 secondary, 32 primary, but it depends on the thickness of the
blade.
> The thicker the blade, the steeper the angle, up to 40 is fine.
Thatnks. Maybe I'll start at 36 degrees and see if it is "sharp" enough.
It would be easier to change my mind and go from 36 to 30 to 24 degrees
than starting at 24 degrees and finding out the edge is too fragile.
I'll just be putting a primary edge on it: the existing convex profiling
will serve the function of the secondary bevel for the foreseeable
future, until the point where the blade behind the primary bevel has
become too thick.
> > I just use it
> > for whacking up chicken bones and stuff like that.
>
> For that you can use shallower angles, if it is a kitchen cleaver,
even as
> low as 22-25.
I think I'd prefer to go for a somewhat more durable edge. I really
don't use it that often -- I'm more inclined to use a chef's knife and
just reach for the cleaver on things that I know have a good chance of
damaging a knife edge -- trimming pork ribs, etc.
Webmarketing
most applications. I know you're into Japanese knives. Perhaps you could
just double the bevel on your favorite deba.
Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com
"hwc" <nos...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:6WUH9.44167$pN3.3407@sccrnsc03...
Steve B
to 25 degrees if they need it.
Steve
--
Sharpening Made Easy: A Primer on Sharpening Knives and Other Edged Tools
Copyright January 2002 Knife World Publications
www.sharpeningmadeeasy.com
Eric Lund
"Steve B" <st...@sharpeningmadeeasy.com> wrote in message
news:3DF0DEC3...@sharpeningmadeeasy.com...
> I agree with Fred. I sharpen them at 30 degrees, and thin the secondary
> to 25 degrees if they need it.
>
> Steve
>
This seems backwards to me. With my planes and chisels, my primary is 25
degrees, and if I use a secondary, it's 30 degrees. How does one cut a
secondary narrower than the primary without using a wheel?
Cheers,
Eric
Billy
> I agree with Fred. I sharpen them at 30 degrees, and thin the secondary
> to 25 degrees if they need it.
>
>This seems backwards to me. With my planes and chisels, my primary is 25
>degrees, and if I use a secondary, it's 30 degrees. How does one cut a
>secondary narrower than the primary without using a wheel?
This is ENTIRELY TOO ANAL ................ two whacks on the steel
works for me!
A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do.
- Walter Bagehot
hwc
"Eric Lund" <Eric...@west.boeing.com> wrote in message
news:H6q6F...@news.boeing.com...
> This seems backwards to me. With my planes and chisels, my primary is
25
> degrees, and if I use a secondary, it's 30 degrees. How does one cut
a
> secondary narrower than the primary without using a wheel?
I think it's just a reversal in the way you two are using the
terminology.
Steve is talking about grinding a pair of 25 degree bevels and then
putting a smaller pair of 30 degree bevels right at the cutting edge.
hwc
> I agree with Fred. I sharpen them at 30 degrees, and thin the
secondary
> to 25 degrees if they need it.
Thanks, everbody. Sounds like the concensus is right around 30 degrees.
I think we have a winner.
Henckels doesn't appear to even really bother putting a cutting edge on
it at the factory, as near as I can tell. Nice machine ground convex
profile, but a very dull edge.
It's time to go find my 180 grit Edge Pro stone, I guess!
bla...@starband.net
>
> > This seems backwards to me. With my planes and chisels, my primary is
> 25
> > degrees, and if I use a secondary, it's 30 degrees. How does one cut
> a
> > secondary narrower than the primary without using a wheel?
>
> I think it's just a reversal in the way you two are using the
> terminology.
>
> Steve is talking about grinding a pair of 25 degree bevels and then
> putting a smaller pair of 30 degree bevels right at the cutting edge.
>
>
We don't seem to agree on terminology. For me the primary bevel is the one
you apply to the blade first. To the other guys it is the bevel with the
final cutting edge. You apply the more acute angle first and follow it with
the more obtuse angle regardless of what name you give it.
Eric Lund
180 grit. Guess that's OK for a kitchen knife. I take my woodworking
chisels and planes to 2000 grit (paper on float glass) or 8000 waterstone.
Cheers,
Eric
Eric Lund
<bla...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:VhkI9.4096$yF6.110...@twister1.starband.net...
Mr Kuntze pointed this out to me in a separate email. I'm less picky about
bevel angles and such with my kitchen knives, but it did sound funny to me.
I just go with whatever bevel those ceramic V sharpeners give me.
With my woodworking tools, I'm more familiar with the terms bevel and
micro-bevel, which to me is more clear. Considering the amount of work
involved in planing and chiseling wood, I'm a little more particular about
my bevel angles, though not as a.r. as some.
Cheers,
Eric
Webmarketing
the tops of folios in bookbinding. Those chisels were ground to seven
degrees. You should think of a knife as simply a double chisel blade. The
angle is just as important. As an example, a cleaver would likely have a
delicate edge if it were ground like a chef's knife and a chef's knife would
be unecessarily dull if ground like a cleaver. Same thing with chisels. A
paring chisel should have a more acute angle than a chisel that's used with
a hammer but that angle would be too delicate for the framing chisel.
Fred
Knife Outlet
hwc
> > Henckels doesn't appear to even really bother putting a cutting edge
on
> > it at the factory, as near as I can tell. Nice machine ground convex
> > profile, but a very dull edge.
> >
> > It's time to go find my 180 grit Edge Pro stone, I guess!
> >
>
> 180 grit. Guess that's OK for a kitchen knife. I take my woodworking
> chisels and planes to 2000 grit (paper on float glass) or 8000
waterstone.
Go find my 180 grit stone as in "that's my coarsest stone and I don't
use it very often, except to cut completely new bevels, so I'll have to
find it....."
I use various grit stones depending on the knives. For my very hard
carbon steel Japanese knives, I use a ceramic 600 grit stone and 3000
grit polishing tapes for the front bevel. These are equivalent to 2000
grit and 6000 grit Japanese water stones in terms of the size of the
resulting scratches (looking under magnification), although they put a
bit more uniform finish on the edge so there is a somewhat higher degree
of bright "mirror" gloss than with the Japanese stones, which produce a
softer, more random scratch pattern. For the "flat" side of the chisel
ground knives, I use either 6000 or 8000 grit Japanese water stones.
I have polished my German everyday knives to those levels, just for
kicks, but I don't think it provides any particular benefit on moderate
hardness stainless steel alloys. So I generally use a 320 grit ceramic
stone (equivalent to a 1200 grit Japanese waterstone) for basic
sharpening and the 600 grit ceramic stone (equivalent to a 2000 grit
Japanese stone) for final polishing and touch-ups. The 600 grit is
gilding the lilly. It makes the knives look nice, but any performance
benefit over the 320 grit stones with these knives would probably be
very short-lived. The alloy in German forged-style knives is pretty
malleable and, therefore, won't hold as fine an edge as the 62 Rockwell
Japanese white steel knives. Any benefit of finishing these knives with
ultra fine grits would be gone the first time they hit a cutting board -
the molecular structure of the alloy won't support that fine an edge.
Some people believe that the microscopic ridges left by coarser stones
improve the slicing performance of a knife in the kitchen. I don't
believe that is true, at least for knives at the level of sharpness that
I prefer. So for me, it's just a matter of matching the final grit size
to the particular alloy of a given knfe and how much additional
performance I will get for the added time of switching to a finer grit
stone on each knife.
On this new meat cleaver, I'll start with a 180 grit stone because I'll
have to remove some metal to grind micro-bevels into fairly thick convex
profiles, sufficient to raise a detectable burr along the full length of
the cleaver. It's just a matter of speed. The 180 grit stones will do it
in a couple of passes. Then, I'll go to the 320 grit ceramic stone,
before finishing with the 600 grit stone (just to make it look pretty
more than anything else).
Eric Lund
OK, that makes more sense.
Cheers,
Eric