--> Anise Extract -- Water soluble -- where?

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Jon Noring

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Jun 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/25/97
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Hello,

I have a machine which can make sodas, and lately I've been experimenting
with Italian-type sodas, using various flavors of syrups made by Torani (I'm
sure there are other brands as well).

One soda flavor I love is anise. However, the anise-flavored syrup from
Torani (and in actuality all of them) are not exactly cheap. When I read
the ingredients on the anise-syrup bottle, they are essentially water, cane
sugar (white sugar) and anise extract. So, I figure, all I need is the
anise extract, and I can make my own very easily and probably for a lot less
than Torani charges.

But there is a problem -- finding a water soluble anise extract. I was able
to find anise *oil* (the real stuff, not artificial), which has that wonderful
aroma and taste of anise. Unfortunately, this oil is essentially insoluble
in water, and my attempts at making anise-flavored syrup have miserably
failed.

Thus, I'd like to know if anybody here knows where I can obtain *real* anise
extract which is completely water soluble. Of course, I'm also interested
in other flavors, and here again I would need water-soluble extracts.

Thanks!

Jon Noring

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Mark Preston

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Jun 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/26/97
to Jon Noring

I have considered experimenting with; and have experimented with just
such as your post talks about.

Much current information on soda fountain literature is far too
technical, industrial and corporarate for the home-made cook. However,
in the past, many books have been published on the "home-made" size soda
fountain. One such is:

The Standard Manual of Soda and Other Beverages by A. Emil Hiss, Ph.G.;
Chicago : G.P. Engelhard, 1897.

Mr. Hiss gives the following formula for:

"Anise Essence or Extract

I.

Oil of anise ......... fl. oz. 1
Alcohol, deoderized .. fl. oz. 15

The U.S.P. spirit of anise is made with 1 fluidounce of oil and 9 fluid
ounces of alcohol
The above may be tinted slightly with caramel.

II.

Oil of star anise ......... fl. oz. 1/2
Aniseeed, freshly ground .. av. oz. 1
Alcohol, deoderized ....... fl. oz. 16

Macerate for several days, agitating occasionally, and filter."

As to recipe I., don't get confused. Mix the deoderized Alcohol (liquor
store EVERCLEAR) and anise oil. [You don't have to make a whole batch,
but do make at least 25% of a batch. I am going to assume you can do
math, ratio & proportions, etc.] Ignore the part about U.S.P. the author
is talking about the "medicinal grade" of this extract.

Next, you will need a simple syrup. I use 1 oz. of sugar to 1 fl. oz. of
water and like the "sweetness" very much. (in fact, I use it for my root
beer extract-syrup). Your only next problem is to add the alcohol based
extract to the simple syrup in the amount you like and that, of course,
will stand up in a soda. In my root beer, I use about 6 fluid ounces of
alcohol and water based extract to about 96 fl. ozs. of simple syrup.

Let me know if this helps.
--
Mark Preston
Author of
California Mission Cookery
and
The Hatch Chile Pepper Cookbook

RCC

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Jun 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/27/97
to

Jon Noring wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I have a machine which can make sodas, and lately I've been experimenting
> with Italian-type sodas, using various flavors of syrups made by Torani (I'm
> sure there are other brands as well).
>
> One soda flavor I love is anise. However, the anise-flavored syrup from
> Torani (and in actuality all of them) are not exactly cheap. When I read
> the ingredients on the anise-syrup bottle, they are essentially water, cane
> sugar (white sugar) and anise extract. So, I figure, all I need is the
> anise extract, and I can make my own very easily and probably for a lot less
> than Torani charges.

First up, sorry, I don't have then answer, but you got me to thinking.
I remember these soda making affairs, with the bottle and the syrup. I
doubtless wanted one as a kid. Then I got older and smarter, and realise
that they are just gimmicky trash. Now I see your Torani syrup post, and
I'm thinking: "soda maker! Yeah great idea!"

Funny in a "what comes around goes around" type of way.

P.S. As good as Torani is (and it is very good), I'm looking to a
product called "Bisleri Ferro-China". Now, I have a suspicion (but not
confirmed) that Bisleri is an Australian company, but I strongly doubt
that the product is made in Australia, being one of those arcane herb
tonics (certainly containing "cincona bark") one occasionally finds in
Europe.

Anyhow, it is like concentrated chinotto, and I could really make up a
few batches of that.

It is very mildly alcoholic, mildly enough that it sells from
non-licensed stores,
so your resulting soda might be 1% alcohol or so.

Does this product (an Italian style chinotto-reminiscent tonic supposed
to be drunk in sips) exist in the US?

Now that I think of it, I don't even remember seeing chinotto in the US!
For those who don't know, it's a softdrink the taste of which
approximates, to my best judgement, Coca Cola to which has been added
some angostura bitters and some lemon juice.

In an ad campaign here they called it "The adult cola". Ooh, la la!

John McChesney-Young

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Jun 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/27/97
to

I can't guarantee it'll be water-soluble, but KCJ Vanilla Company has
anise extract in their catalog (along with 23 other extract flavors,
besides an assortment of types and strengths of vanilla and a few other
products). All extracts are $2.95 for 2 oz.; $11.00 for 8 oz., and $17.00
for 16 oz.

My catalog is old, so it's quite possible the prices are higher now.

P. O. Box 126
Norwood PA 19074

(no phone number in catalog)

John

In article <noringEC...@netcom.com>, nor...@netcom.com (Jon Noring) wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have a machine which can make sodas, and lately I've been experimenting
> with Italian-type sodas, using various flavors of syrups made by Torani (I'm
> sure there are other brands as well).
>
> One soda flavor I love is anise. However, the anise-flavored syrup from
> Torani (and in actuality all of them) are not exactly cheap. When I read
> the ingredients on the anise-syrup bottle, they are essentially water, cane
> sugar (white sugar) and anise extract. So, I figure, all I need is the
> anise extract, and I can make my own very easily and probably for a lot less
> than Torani charges.
>

> But there is a problem -- finding a water soluble anise extract. I was able
> to find anise *oil* (the real stuff, not artificial), which has that wonderful
> aroma and taste of anise. Unfortunately, this oil is essentially insoluble
> in water, and my attempts at making anise-flavored syrup have miserably
> failed.
>
> Thus, I'd like to know if anybody here knows where I can obtain *real* anise
> extract which is completely water soluble. Of course, I'm also interested
> in other flavors, and here again I would need water-soluble extracts.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jon Noring

--
Remove "nospam." from return address before replying.

Shankar Bhattacharyya

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Jun 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/28/97
to

In article <noringEC...@netcom.com>, Jon Noring <nor...@netcom.com> wrote:

>But there is a problem -- finding a water soluble anise extract. I was able
>to find anise *oil* (the real stuff, not artificial), which has that wonderful
>aroma and taste of anise. Unfortunately, this oil is essentially insoluble
>in water, and my attempts at making anise-flavored syrup have miserably
>failed.
>
>Thus, I'd like to know if anybody here knows where I can obtain *real* anise
>extract which is completely water soluble. Of course, I'm also interested
>in other flavors, and here again I would need water-soluble extracts.

No decent anise extract will be soluble in water. The reason, of
course, is that most of the interesting compounds in anise and related
materials, indeed, most flavour compounds of any type, are substantially
insoluble in water. A very large number of flavour compounds are
terpenes or sesquiterpenes, few of which are soluble in water to any
meaningful extent.

The reason you get flavouring extracts which are claimed to be water-
soluble is that you need very tiny amounts of flavour compounds to
impart adequate flavour to a drink. You don't even need to have the
compounds dissolved in the water, you just need them dispersed.

I'd suggest trying to dissolve some of the anise oil in undenatured
alcohol - Everclear would be fine - to whatever extent it dissolves
and adding a few drops of that solution to a glass of carbonated
water. You'll get some turbidity, as you do when Pernod or retsina is
diluted with water but you'll get plenty of flavour. Just make sure
that you don't saturate the alcohol up front or else you will probably
change the flavour profile.

I don't know offhand what the dominant component of the flavour of
anise is or whether that particular compound is water-soluble but I am
quite prepared to guarantee that a truly water-soluble extract of
anise will have a flavour profile different from that of anise.

- Shankar

aasimon

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
to

> > Hello,
> >
> > I have a machine which can make sodas, and lately I've been experimenting
> > with Italian-type sodas, using various flavors of syrups made by Torani (I'm
> > sure there are other brands as well).
> >
> > One soda flavor I love is anise. However, the anise-flavored syrup from
> > Torani (and in actuality all of them) are not exactly cheap. When I read
> > the ingredients on the anise-syrup bottle, they are essentially water, cane
> > sugar (white sugar) and anise extract. So, I figure, all I need is the
> > anise extract, and I can make my own very easily and probably for a lot less
> > than Torani charges.
> >
> > But there is a problem -- finding a water soluble anise extract. I was able
> > to find anise *oil* (the real stuff, not artificial), which has that wonderful
> > aroma and taste of anise. Unfortunately, this oil is essentially insoluble
> > in water, and my attempts at making anise-flavored syrup have miserably
> > failed.
> >
> > Thus, I'd like to know if anybody here knows where I can obtain *real* anise
> > extract which is completely water soluble. Of course, I'm also interested
> > in other flavors, and here again I would need water-soluble extracts.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Jon Noring

I'm coming in late on this thread, but I can comment on the "water-soluble"
question. Many of the essential oils in anise are not very soluble in water.
That's why extracts (e.g., orange, almond, lemon) are alcohol-based. Luckily
it doesn't take much extract to impart quite a bit of flavor. You can assume
that, in the quantities used to achieve your desired level of flavor, it will
dissolve or at least be well dispersed.

For a physical experiment to demonstrate this, purchase a bottle or Greek
ouzo or Turkish raki (there are also similar spirits from Lebanon, etc).

Put 2 ounces in a glass something like a champagne flute or whiskey sour
glass. Drop in one ice cube. Watch the oils separate into a milky cloud.
Drink. Enjoy. Don't have a second if you expect to remain gainfully employed
or if you are in the presence of respected elders... you may say or do
things you might otherwise not say or do.

Art <who has had that second one all too often> :-P
--
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.

--seen on bumper sticker
(To reply, remove the word "botcatcher" from my address)

Kimberly Ann Weeden

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Jul 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/10/97
to

>In article <noringEC...@netcom.com>, Jon Noring <nor...@netcom.com> wrote:
>

>>But there is a problem -- finding a water soluble anise extract.

I don't know if the product would be water soluble (I defer to
Shankar's post here), but you might try a local homebrew shop. Such
places often also carry supplies for people who want to make their
own sodas (root beer, etc). I know I've seen some flavored
extracts at my local store (Fermentation Frenzy in Mountain View, CA)
but I've never really bothered to check the contents of these
flavorants.

Can't guarantee that it would be cheaper than Torani, but it
might be worth a shot.

Kim

heyit...@gmail.com

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Dec 12, 2018, 6:03:10 PM12/12/18
to
Where to find anise flavor that does not flash off volatile flavoring compounds when exposed to high temp 350F? I don't think anything exists except Flavor Houses mfg. of encapsulated or artificial anise. I tried using twice the amount of anise oil and anise extract that the Pizzelle recipe called for with out success.
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