British teas suitable for making "sun tea"?!
kahunaac...@yahoo.com
American fashion of "sun tea" (i.e., iced tea brewed up in a glass gallon jug
of water, via direct sunlight) isn't exactly cricket, or that it probably has
Monty Pythonesque overtones; but I will ask anyway:
When it comes to brewing "sun tea," which English/British brands would best be
suited to the task at hand, the better to ensure maximum flavour?
And would there be certain flavoured teas from the British perhaps worthy of
addition to a more plebian jug of "sun tea," especially if an "American" brand
(e.g., Lipton's, Luzianne, Tetley) is used as the "base" for the sun tea?
Your thoughts on this debate that bleedeth on the Internet would be welcomed.
***************************************************************
Sincerely,
KAHUNA ACCIDENTALE OF THE DELLS
(N.B. Spammers beware: Any and all specimens thereof will be shared with the
proper channels.)
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Donna J. Fisher
> Doubtless I am likely to diss off certain English tea purists
...and American tea purists, too!
> When it comes to brewing "sun tea,"
itself an oxymorinic expression...
> which English/British brands would best be
> suited to the task at hand, the better to ensure maximum flavour?
Nothing is better suited to sun tea than the dirty dustings swept up off the floor
and bagged like roadkill by highway maintenance crews in orange vests. Oh!
Forgive me my cynicism by the rank American brands beg to be the base of such
swill; to use real-leafed English brands defies everything we have ever learned
about culture and boiling water!
> And would there be certain flavoured teas from the British perhaps worthy of
> addition to a more plebian jug of "sun tea,"
No! But, if you must....throw in a couple of Typhoo round bags...or a slew of
Brooke Bonds premium bags. Just know you're offending the Camellian gods with
this wicked potion of tea-colored water and the wrathe you incur may destroy us
all!
GSiebs
www.greatbritishtea.com if you'd like to try some.
Richard L. Molay
--
Friendly, Dependable Richard Molay
(Known to his contemporaries as 'Scribiletto')
r...@tampabay.rr.com
"The first time around, I write it the way I think it should be.
After that, it's your money and you can have whatever
you want."
Richard L. Molay
It seems to me that any tea can be brewed by long exposure to cold or
room temp. water. The function of the heat in boiling water is as an
accelerant. Cool the water, lengthen the time, and you get the same
results. We often "put up" large pitchers of tea a few hours before
we expect guests for a meal. We just let the pitcher stand on a
kitchen counter. When it looks "done" it is done. No perceptible
difference in taste.
I know this will bring out the beast in purists who live by the fomula
of "scald, empty, refill, infuse for exactly three or five or whatever
minutes, remove leaves," etc.
Bullroar! We're talking about solution chemistry here. Time versus
temperature. And before somebody rises to protest this heresy, I
suggest testing the premise. Lapsang Souchong, in particular, makes
the most lovely iced tea imaginable.
- Richard
Donna J. Fisher
> Bullroar! We're talking about solution chemistry here. Time versus
> temperature. And before somebody rises to protest this heresy, I
> suggest testing the premise. Lapsang Souchong, in particular, makes
> the most lovely iced tea imaginable.
Bullroar, back! There's always a scientist around to dispute human
experience with physics theorums and chemistry experiments! I protest the
heresy and add microwaved water to the dispute. It produces hideous tea,
too!
I'm afraid Lapsang Souchong's not the best tea for me to replicate your
experiment, though. Its strong smokey taste mitigates equal comparison.
I have tried Luciane and Tetely and Lipton sun tea, though. Acceleration
of heating process makes a humanly discernible difference!
--Donna
Richard L. Molay
"taking tea." It is more than a cup of solute leached out of some
dried leaves. Tea is a tactile experience of grasping an old favorite
kettle, it is the time it takes for water to boil, giving one an
opportunity to break out the biscotti or whatever, and all the other
little manipulations that some people grow to cherish. So I am not
disposed to argue with anyone about the right or wrong way to make
tea. Making it is often more important than drinking it.
But I suppose there were some pretty passionate objections to electric
kettles when they came along, by people who swore that nothing would
ever take the place of tossing a fire-warmed rock into a gourd full of
fresh rainwater. I can imagine people arguing whether water is better
boiled over a gas flame than over an electric coil. The microwave
comment is totally, unreservedly silly. Microwaves jiggle water into
a furious boil just as heat on the bottom does. And when the
microwaves turn off, they are gone. Poof! All that's left is boiling
water.
There's a difference between personal preferences, which are totally
within the purview of the individual, and the dismissal of a new or
different technology just because of an aversion to what some might
call "science."
Enjoy your tea any way you wish. Make some for me, if we ever meet.
But don't be squeamish about the microwaves. Microwaves may indeed
ruin a standing rib roast, but they can't hurt water. (Microwave
heated water, however, can re-dissolve stuff hiding in the pores of
your cup or mug. If you think you detect an off-flavor or odor, try
microwaving the water in a scrupulously clean glass.)
Richard
====================================================
Daffodil
Molay <r...@tampabay.rr.com> writes
>Offhand, I cannot imagine any foodstuff that is more ritualized than
>"taking tea." It is more than a cup of solute leached out of some
>dried leaves. Tea is a tactile experience of grasping an old favorite
>kettle, it is the time it takes for water to boil, giving one an
>opportunity to break out the biscotti or whatever, and all the other
>little manipulations that some people grow to cherish. So I am not
>disposed to argue with anyone about the right or wrong way to make
>tea. Making it is often more important than drinking it.
Absolutely, hence the very British habit of putting the kettle on after
any emotional experience. If you aren't a brit do not be alarmed if
someone offers you a steaming mug of strong tea when you have just been
hit by a car, they are trying to help!
<snippage>
>Enjoy your tea any way you wish. Make some for me, if we ever meet.
Me too, I've never had iced tea. Do you just bung in the tea and wait
for the broen stuff?
<more snippage about microwaves, do people really object to water boiled
by different methods?)
>
>Richard
>
--
Daffodil
Donna J. Fisher
important than drinking it."
> Absolutely, hence the very British habit of putting the kettle on after
> any emotional experience. If you aren't a brit do not be alarmed if
> someone offers you a steaming mug of strong tea when you have just been
> hit by a car, they are trying to help!
...and don't be offended, as well, if they heat the water over the steam
from the car's radiator. What the heck, a heat source is a heat source!
(I'm laughing as I write...trust you all are, too).
I second Daffodil's "Absolutely" with my own, "Indeed!" Tea is a noun and a
verb and a whole way of life that's comforting and kind."
> >Enjoy your tea any way you wish. Make some for me, if we ever meet.
>
> Me too
As it turns out, I only drink iced tea when I am serving guests (not an ice
eater myself...too cold...hurts my teeth!) so we'll all be quite in luck
should we ever meet! It'll be an iced tea fest.
> I've never had iced tea. Do you just bung in the tea and wait
> for the broen stuff?
Make it any way you wish, just make it strong and pour it over the ice as
opposed to putting ice in the pitcher...otherwise the whole pitcher gets
diluted and once it gets to room temprature, you have to add more ice to
make it chilly again...then it gets even more diluted. If you're pouring it
into glasses with ice while it's still hot, put a metal spoon in the glass
first to absorb the heat...otherwise the glass may crack. Add lemon or
lemon and sugar or just sugar or honey, a cinnamom stick, a spring of mint
or a spring of lemon balm...the possibilities are endless.
> <more snippage about microwaves, do people really object to water boiled
> by different methods?)
I do. Not because I'm not squeamish about microwave technology...it's the
frothiness of the water after it's been micro-jiggled and how quickly waved
water cools....it's also about the fact that it would take so much longer to
heat a kettle-full of water in the microwave than it would in the kettle on
an electric or a gas stove (though not as long, I suppose, as fire-heating
the rock to throw into the fresh rain cauldron!) so what's the point?
Richard L. Molay
are smiles all around and good fellowship, but I just have to say
something about iced tea.
I live in Florida, where the weather is beastly hot most of the year,
and iced tea is the drink of preference in just about every restaurant
except those with genuine fabric tablecloths. Those from other lands
may be surprised to know that patrons are given as many refills as
they wish without extra charge. On a very hot day, in a sandwich
place, it isn't unusual to drink as much as 3 pints of iced tea with
lunch. Yes, it produces the imagined result. But we need the fluids
running through our plumbing!
Iced tea around here is made first thing in the morning, usually, by
putting up large quantities of conventional hot tea. Then it is
allowed to cool to room temperature. When served, it is run over
plenty of ice cubes. Sometimes it has a nice hearty tea color and
flavor, and other times it is insipid, but still cooling.
A typical establishment will charge around one dollar for iced tea -
as much as a person likes. Many folks prefer to use a bit of
artificial sweetener in it, and draw it up with a drinking straw.
We seldom make iced tea at home - it takes more advance planning than
we generally exercise. But I often think about outdoors construction
workers drinking as much as 2 or 3 liters of iced tea at lunch, when I
look at those beautiful and delicate little teacups in fancy shops.
Here they use large plastic tumblers.
There's another, more barbaric apparatus that stores a great quantity
of powdered tea stuff in a hopper, and mixes it on demand with a
stream of tap water. Busy restaurants use these things. The server
dips a huge tumbler into a bin of ice cubes, then puts it under the
tap of the instant tea machine, and presto! Another glass of iced tea.
I know. Here we were talking about the niceties of brewing, and now
I've ruined the whole idea for sensitive souls in the UK.
Take heart. I was once in Guatemala, and I looked forward to a cup of
coffee straight from the source. Well, they served me a cup of hot
water and pointed to what I thought was a bottle of soy sauce on the
table. It was coffee concentrate fluid. One poured out a spoonful
and stirred it into the hot water. Passable, but definitely not what
I expected.
Richard
Donna J. Fisher
agrument:
> ...by golly, Randy is right. Look at the way they make petroleum
> products, by taking off distillates at different heights in a stack,
> which is equivalent to taking off the fractions at different
> temperatures. YES! Nonlinearity rules the day!
>
> But then I had a second thought. We're not talking about distillation,
> or sublimation, or precipitation. We are talking about solutions in
> water. Solutions and nothing but solutions. And I still think that
> time vs. temperature is the operating determinant.
...and I think time and temperature (when it comes to steeping a proper
tea) needs to achieve critical mass in the first 3 minutes to release the
flavonoids! (I made that up but I think I'm on to something.....!). I
think there's something about the way the leaves unfurl when bathed in
boiling water that causes whatever chemical and cellular breakdown that
needs to occur to casue full steeping to happen and it can't happen in
cool water. A cold water extraction releases aromatics but doesn't shock
the cell membranes of each leaf such that they release whatever that is
that comes be to called and to taste like brewed tea. Cold water causes
leaching of color but not substance.
I think we're talking about something more than simple solutions in
water. We're talking osmosis, transfer of chemical and physical
properties...we're talking about some kind of grand and wondrous
re-gestalting that occurs when tea leaves are stunned into alchemic
transformation by the introduction of boiling hot water. Cold water just
makes them giggle. Hot water makes them passionate and tempestuous.
Yes, we're definitely talking about something big...something bigger than
all of us...and during the time this thread began and now, I've ordered an
interesting rare tea from Peet's in San Francisco (www.peets.com) called
Huo Mountain Yellow Tea. It's described as "a 'yellow tea', the leaves
are processed much like a 'green tea' except that the leaves undergo
slight oxidation giving the leaves a golden tint. It's fresh and bright
flavor sets this tea apart." Has anyone ever heard of/tasted this tea?
> But I see no conflict in suggesting that a blind tasting of iced teas
> would not turn up any perceptible differences.
....I am willing to bet you are wrong but I am unwilling to sip sun tea
again even in the name of science!
> In other words, a lot of the qualities are emotional, rather than
> measurably
> physical.
Well then the same should be true of different grades of leaves, leaves of
different plants grown at the same altitude, same soil PH, etc.
> I can't believe I got into this. Normally I just lurk and sip.
A pleasure hearing from you nonetheless!
Randy Pals
Richard L. Molay <r...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> It seems to me that any tea can be brewed by long exposure to cold or
> room temp. water. The function of the heat in boiling water is as an
> accelerant. Cool the water, lengthen the time, and you get the same
> results. ... We're talking about solution chemistry here. Time versus
> temperature. And before somebody rises to protest this heresy, I
> suggest testing the premise.
But is it really true? I mean, do all the chemicals that come
out of the leaves and into the water slow down/speed up at the
same rate vs. temperature? Could there be some non-linear effects
going on here? I really don't know - just asking. I used to do
the "sun tea" thing, too, and then started actually brewing it
normally, cooling to refrigerator temperature, and then drinking.
I like it much better that way.
Randy
Richard L. Molay
out of the leaves and into the water slow down/speed up at the
same rate vs. temperature? Could there be some non-linear effects
going on here? I really don't know - just asking. I used to do
the "sun tea" thing, too, and then started actually brewing it
normally, cooling to refrigerator temperature, and then drinking.
I like it much better that way."
====
Randy is pushing me out of my depth. Plenty to think about here. And
my first thought was, by golly, Randy is right. Look at the way they
make petroleum products, by taking off distillates at different
heights in a stack, which is equivalent to taking off the fractions at
different temperatures. YES! Nonlinearity rules the day!
But then I had a second thought. We're not talking about
distillation, or sublimation, or precipitation. We are talking about
solutions in water. Solutions and nothing but solutions. And I still
think that time vs. temperature is the operating determinant.
What you don't get with cold water extraction is a release of
aromatics into the air. And, since people taste with their noses, the
stuff will necessarily taste different when cold-dissolved as opposed
to brewed in almost boiling water.
I'm willing to agree that various methods yield tea of varying
qualities. But I see no conflict in suggesting that a blind tasting
of iced teas would not turn up any perceptible differences. In other
words, a lot of the qualities are emotional, rather than measurably
physical.
I can't believe I got into this. Normally I just lurk and sip.
Excuse me. I never meant to be argumentative. Well, maybe I meant to
be argumentative, but definitely not obnoxious.
- Richard
Sid Cammeresi
>Enjoy your tea any way you wish. Make some for me, if we ever meet.
>ruin a standing rib roast, but they can't hurt water. (Microwave
as a college student, i find microwaves invaluable in preparing my
daily earl grey, oolong, assam, etc.
sc
--
Sidney CAMMERESI | icbm: 40.112 N, -88.200 W
http://www.omni.cx/~sac |
PGP: 65 6F B3 DA CA 3E 3B 09 | Cxi tie parolas Anglen kaj
32 C8 17 1C 0A 79 2F 3F | Esperanten.
Richard Chappell
solution chemistry assumes only one compound. So it applies to, say,
dissolving salt but not to something as complicated as tea. The problem
is that different compounds are affected differently by heat ("have
different thermal solubility gradients"). Some are even _less_ soluble
with hotter water.
So, especially with oolongs, I find it fun to steep longer & cooler or
shorter/hotter and see what changes.
By the way, another science comes into play with sun tea: epidemiology.
If I had an agricultural product from a third-world country where they
use who-knows-what as fertilizer, I would take whatever opportunities I
could to sterilize it rather than incubate it.
Rick.
****************
In article <37122A67...@adelphia.net>,
Donna J. Fisher <djfi...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>"Richard L. Molay" wrote:
>
>> Bullroar! We're talking about solution chemistry here. Time versus
>> temperature. And before somebody rises to protest this heresy, I
Candace Van Auken
If your theory were correct, why couldn't I
hard boil a couple of eggs by leaving 'em in tepid
tap water for a day or two?
My point: The boiling water also serves to "cook"
the tea leaves, which might do something that
steeping in room-temperature water does not.
I recall a childhood friend who was quite the
young scientist. He would only drink "tea" he
made by dissolving tannic acid in water. "After
all," he observed, "that's all it is." More recent
research would challenge his claim. (--And
gawd, that stuff tasted awful!)
Tea preparation is both science _and_ art.
--Candace
Richard L. Molay wrote in message ...
Richard L. Molay
Nothing on the internet has been as interesting to me, and as
thought-provoking, as the discussion regarding the relative merits of
various tea preparation methods. It all started when, as a Floridian
accustomed to drinking large quantities of iced tea prepared in
several ungracious ways, including cold water extraction, I attempted
to suggest that the classic boiling water method is not the only one
used and respected by significant numbers of tea drinkers. Those of
us who gulp the stuff by the quart to ward off dehydration are not
elegant, but we are bona fide members of the tea drinking community.
(My wife and I also enjoy breakfast tea made by conventional means.)
I have selected two contributions to the discussion that especially
delighted me....
From Candace:
"If your theory were correct, why couldn't I
hard boil a couple of eggs by leaving 'em in tepid
tap water for a day or two?"
My "theory" applied to solutions. Not to cooking. And I have no idea
how long it would take to dissolve an egg in tepid water. Maybe 100
years. I was once in a cave with crystal formations. The stuff of
the crystals had dissolved out of solid rock over the eons, so I guess
an egg wouldn't be that much of a challenge.
From Donna:
"I think we're talking about something more than simple solutions in
water. We're talking osmosis, transfer of chemical and physical
properties...we're talking about some kind of grand and wondrous
re-gestalting that occurs when tea leaves are stunned into alchemic
transformation by the introduction of boiling hot water. Cold water
just
makes them giggle. Hot water makes them passionate and tempestuous."
If the discussion about tea preparation continues for another month,
it will be difficult to top Donna's description of "grand and wondrous
re-gestalting." And I will never again look at cold and hot water
taps without thinking about giggles vs. passion and tempestuousness.
Re-gestalting indeed. From now on, I think I'll store my Lapsang
Souchong in an Orgone Box. As far as I am concerned, Donna has,
indeed, cast Perls before us swine.
- Richard
kahunaac...@my-dejanews.com
> Take heart. I was once in Guatemala, and I looked forward to a cup of
> coffee straight from the source. Well, they served me a cup of hot
> water and pointed to what I thought was a bottle of soy sauce on the
> table. It was coffee concentrate fluid. One poured out a spoonful
> and stirred it into the hot water. Passable, but definitely not what
> I expected.
>
I understand that the British also have a brand of liquid-extract coffee
called Camp Coffee and Chicory Extract, as works on essentially the same
pirnciple as described above.
Apart from stores as cater to obviously British expatriate tastes, I suppose
such may be quite difficult to find here in the United States; however, has
anybody tried the Camp Coffee, and if so, what would their reaction be?
Prof. Brian L. GOMES da COSTA
educated, i used to use camp coffee essence to make a drink which purported
to be 'coffee'. it tastes absolutely ghastly and, not having looked for it
in decades, i cannot say whether any of the big supermarkets here in GB
still stock it. it is certainly a grade or three down from even the worst
instant.
but all this throws up the problem of the relativism of taste and
demonstrates just what an apparently iron grip our respective cultures tend
have upon us. but it also tells us that "palatal" re-education is, not just
in principle but also in practice, possible. so that grip is, thank heavens,
not absolute. we can learn, for example, that our tastes may 'err' and that
we can revise them for the better. thus, i may regret not having been
brought up, culinarily speaking, in the bosom of an extended bolognese
family, but it does not mean that i cannot, given the right exposure and
training and a will to compromise, learn to eat just as they do in bologna
and to re-evaluate and, in my case, reject the infinitely inferior style of
eating (and drinking and coffee drinking) of my native country. ironically,
i have to admit that it might just be possible to re-educate in the other
direction, too. but i'm not sure that i am psychologically strong enough to
comtemplate that possibility <g>
anyway, how people like to make and drink their coffee is essentially a
social institution and a not entirely trivial one at that. offend against
the 'rules' of that institution and it kicks back, hard. that is, in part,
why some of the discussion in this NG can become so passionate, sometimes
even quite inappropriately so. offending nature is one thing, offending
(man-made) social conventions another. stand well back! you have been
warned...
brian
kahunaac...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<7f05b0$gn4$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Donna J. Fisher
> ...As far as I am concerned, Donna has, indeed, cast Perls before us
> swine.
Aw That's so nice. Thanks. Stay cool...and hydrated by any means
possible!
Daffodil
Molay <r...@tampabay.rr.com> writes
Huge snippage of very good stuff. I must try some of this iced tea.
>
>Take heart. I was once in Guatemala, and I looked forward to a cup of
>coffee straight from the source. Well, they served me a cup of hot
>water and pointed to what I thought was a bottle of soy sauce on the
>table. It was coffee concentrate fluid. One poured out a spoonful
>and stirred it into the hot water. Passable, but definitely not what
>I expected.
Common I think in coffee growing countries. They are normally very poor
countries and the local population cannot afford to buy good coffee for
themselves. I found the same thing with tea in Kenya, it's grim, the
locals just cannot come close to affording good tea, often they can't
even afford gross tea. Hurray for fair trade.
--
Daffodil
Alex Buell
> in my (british) youth in the 1950s and before my palate became better
> educated, i used to use camp coffee essence to make a drink which purported
> to be 'coffee'. it tastes absolutely ghastly and, not having looked for it
> in decades, i cannot say whether any of the big supermarkets here in GB
> still stock it. it is certainly a grade or three down from even the worst
> instant.
Ah, you mean "American" coffee. Arguably the worst in the world.
Cheers,
Alex
--
Scott McNealy - "I'd love to body-check Bill Gates"
Larry Ellison - "I'd love to take my MIG up to Redmond."
Rona Yuthasastrakosol
JAF wrote in message <37188870...@goodnews.nildram.co.uk>...
>On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:19:05 GMT, kahunaac...@my-dejanews.com
>wrote:
>
>
>>Apart from stores as cater to obviously British expatriate tastes, I
suppose
has
>>anybody tried the Camp Coffee, and if so, what would their reaction be?
>>
>>**************************************************
>>Sincerely,
>>KAHUNA ACCIDENTALE OF THE DELLS
>
>like. Nobody who really likes coffee is likely to have it around,
>except as a back-up, for those occasions when you run out just after the
>shops have shut.
On rec.food.cooking there was a discussion on a product made by Toddy, I
think. It makes a coffee concentrate from coffee grounds and water to be
kept in the fridge, or freezer. Use as you would instant coffee granules.
They say it makes a very good cup of coffee (and this was from people who
claim to like coffee) and is very convenient, as well. If you do a search
through DejaNews you'll find the info.
Rona
Donna J. Fisher
> Common I think in coffee growing countries. They are normally very poor
> countries and the local population cannot afford to buy good coffee for
> themselves. I found the same thing with tea in Kenya, it's grim, the
> locals just cannot come close to affording good tea, often they can't
> even afford gross tea. Hurray for fair trade.
My inclination earlier this morning was to permit my dander to raise (no
reference to Dan's "whisker incident!) over an evolving discussion about
(of all the more vile tasting elixirs known to humankind) COFFEE on this
TEA list (there is, after all, a rec.food.drink.coffee list for such
blasphemous unfurling to occur) but now Daffodil's gone and raised a
humblingly good point....the economics of consumption.
What kind of world is this in which those who either dirty their very hands
to produce "exportable goods" or whose lives are inexorably linked to
economies in which they're produced can't afford to purchase and, hence,
consume them? To simply say "That's not right" is cheap and easy. I know
there was a recent thread decrying Chinese human rights abuses and the
implicit support of such abuses when one purchases Chinese teas, but is
this the same thing?
I don't understand economics but is my willingness to pay $X /ounce for a
given tea the variable that drives its price upward and out of range for
the locals? And would my refusal to pay change anything? I'm thinking
this is another of life's many "Unless EVERYONE agrees" phenomenon that
would be impossible to achieve because everyone would never agree to, for
example, stop paying $X/ounce for a tea.
How does one express real concern for fellow inhabitants on the planet when
economics and principles of business and fair trade affect so indelibly
all aspects of life?
Donna
Daffodil
<djfi...@adelphia.net> writes
>Daffodil wrote:
>
>> Common I think in coffee growing countries. They are normally very poor
>> countries and the local population cannot afford to buy good coffee for
>> themselves. I found the same thing with tea in Kenya, it's grim, the
>> locals just cannot come close to affording good tea, often they can't
>> even afford gross tea. Hurray for fair trade.
>
>What kind of world is this in which those who either dirty their very hands
>to produce "exportable goods" or whose lives are inexorably linked to
>economies in which they're produced can't afford to purchase and, hence,
>consume them? To simply say "That's not right" is cheap and easy. I know
>there was a recent thread decrying Chinese human rights abuses and the
>implicit support of such abuses when one purchases Chinese teas, but is
>this the same thing?
Those who make things can rarely afford what they make even in developed
countries, consider the Jaguar makers, textile industry workers and so
on in both the Uk and US. However, the sheer level of poverty in the
developing world does raise a few more questions about consumer morals.
With 1.3 billion people living on less than a dollar a day, we have to
start asking ourselves some questions.
>
>I don't understand economics but is my willingness to pay $X /ounce for a
>given tea the variable that drives its price upward and out of range for
>the locals?
Partly yes but if the market was depressed making tea sell for less, the
workers would get paid less and be no better off. It's not what you
spend it is where you spend that can make a difference.
> And would my refusal to pay change anything? I'm thinking
>this is another of life's many "Unless EVERYONE agrees" phenomenon that
>would be impossible to achieve because everyone would never agree to, for
>example, stop paying $X/ounce for a tea.
If you wait for everyone else you will be waiting a long time. I do not
suggest that stop buying your special teas, but that wherever possible
you try and make youself willing to pay $x+y dollars for those teas to
get fairly traded teas or that you get your basic run of the mill tea
that way. I won't get into a discussion about just how fairly traded
these items are, sometimes not as fair as they would suggest, but little
by little things can change.
>
>How does one express real concern for fellow inhabitants on the planet when
>economics and principles of business and fair trade affect so indelibly
>all aspects of life?
Bummer isn't it. It is a bit like the butterfly and the hurricane.
--
Daffodil
Jeannie
Alex Buell wrote in message ...
>Ah, you mean "American" coffee. Arguably the worst in the world.
If you're in Redmond, stop by for a cup of java. It's not half as bad as
you think.
~~
Jeannie
jeannied@[NS]whidbey.net
http://www.pugetwebdesign.com
~~
David A. Ross
wrote:
>Never heard of Toddy. I already use Douwe Egberts liquid coffee. It's
>very good, but only because I drink very little coffee. If I drank
While the Douwe Egberts liquid is not disgusting, it is nowhere near
as good as coffee made using the Toddy concentrate, which is actually
quite good when fresh. I've never seen the Toddy maker for sale in
the UK, however.
- David R.
Prof. Brian L. GOMES da COSTA
influence (some of it, to be sure, commercial, but none the worse for that),
espresso coffee drinking in london is so much better and more easily
available. directly or indirectly, n. w. pacific-style coffee drinking has
had a mighty impact on the coffee habits of the brits.
in this sense, "American" coffee is hardly the worst in the world NOWADAYS.
when i was in grad. school at stanford in the 60s, maybe yes. but for a dire
experience, you really need to try that brit. camp coffee stuff, if not as a
drink then at least when you next urgently need an emetic (earlier posts in
thread refer).
Jeannie wrote in message <92415644...@news.remarQ.com>...
Cindy Wambeam
> By the way, another science comes into play with sun tea: epidemiology.
> If I had an agricultural product from a third-world country where they
> use who-knows-what as fertilizer, I would take whatever opportunities I
> could to sterilize it rather than incubate it.
Yes, I've been worried about this, and I think I'm not going to brew up
sun tea any more -- I'll make my iced tea by boiling the tea instead. I
do prefer sun tea (it's got a smoother flavor), but I'd rather not take a
chance on it.
As I posted a few months ago, a friend of mine is a food/health inspector
-- he says that sun tea is a big problem down here in the southern states,
and he advised me against making tea that way.
cindy
===================================================================
Cindy Wambeam cwam...@nmsu.edu
English Department http://scf.nmsu.edu/~cwambeam
New Mexico State University
Las Cruces
===================================================================
Audiences expand the mythologies of a creator's world. (M. Groening)
Natarajan Krishnaswami
> As I posted a few months ago, a friend of mine is a food/health inspector
> -- he says that sun tea is a big problem down here in the southern states,
> and he advised me against making tea that way.
Would it be safe, out of curiosity, to make sun tea, then boil it?
<N/>
Alex Buell
> >Ah, you mean "American" coffee. Arguably the worst in the world.
>
> If you're in Redmond, stop by for a cup of java. It's not half as bad
> as you think.
Redmond as in Seattle? I try VERY hard to avoid that place, for reasons
that all the miscreants in here knows very well, and no it's not you, it's
a certain geek worth $100bn.
David A. Ross
<alex....@tahallah.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Ah, you mean "American" coffee. Arguably the worst in the world.
Never as bad as English coffee, of course:-)
- David R.
Alex Buell
> >Ah, you mean "American" coffee. Arguably the worst in the world.
>
> Never as bad as English coffee, of course:-)
Nah, you've got it the wrong way around.
Best coffees (topmost = best, bottom = worst)
Italian,
French
English
American
HTH. HAND. ANAL.
r...@ecn.ab.ca
: On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, David A. Ross wrote:
<slightly snipped but still managing to keep the aroma>
: Nah, you've got it the wrong way around.
: Best coffees (topmost = best, bottom = worst)
: Italian,
: French
: English
: American
: Cheers,
: Alex
--
australian eh?
rob
i'm at: _ _ _ _ _ _ _
r...@ecn.ab.ca / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \
you can find ( t | h | e | B | u | g | s ) at
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-+-+
http://fn2.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~rsw/porchlight.htm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
if you wait long enough it goes away
Alex Buell
> australian eh?
What, there's Australian coffee?
Cheers,
Alex
--
"A mind opened by new ideas can never return to its original limits"
Alan
produced so far are often good, but not world beating (yet.) Main growing
areas are the Atherton Tablelands in Queensland, ditto the Daintree, and
Lismore in N.S.W. The stuff I buy from Lismore is a smooth, low acid coffee
which tastes reasonably similar to some of the lower grade Konas, but the
trees and the growers are still young, so perhaps one day Oz coffees will
rank with Oz wines.
Scott
is there a variant called "Irish tea"?? Not Irish Breakfast or Irish
Afternoon tea, but just "Irish tea"?? I have a neighbor who insists she
had it years back, but I can only find the former two.
--
--------
To reply, replace "spamless" with "optonline"
Jeannie
<r...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in message news:37198...@ecn.ab.ca...
> Alex Buell (alex....@tahallah.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> : On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, David A. Ross wrote:
> <slightly snipped but still managing to keep the aroma>
>
> : Nah, you've got it the wrong way around.
> : Best coffees (topmost = best, bottom = worst)
> : Italian,
> : French
> : English
> : American
America encompasses a vast area, so don't lump it all in one category,
pulleeease. We have great coffee in Seattle!
~~
Jeannie
jean...@whidbey.net
http://www.pugetwebdesign.com
~~
Alex Buell
> America encompasses a vast area, so don't lump it all in one category,
> pulleeease. We have great coffee in Seattle!
Are you trying to entice me into going to Seattle?
Cheers,
Alex
--
"A mind opened by new ideas can never return to its original limits"
http://www.tahallah.demon.co.uk
David A. Ross
(Steve Firth) wrote:
>Jeannie <jean...@whidbey.net> wrote:
>
>> We have great coffee in Seattle!
>
>Umm no, you just think you do.
[snip]
>Or have I just seen the bad side of the place?
Yes. While traditional American coffee (weak and perked) is bad, it
is also decreasing in popularity, even more than traditional English
coffee (i.e., instant) is. When I moved to the UK from the US in the
80s, you could already get better coffee in most US cities than was
available anywhere in the UK outside of London and Edinburgh. (Of
course, you had to look a bit in some cities:-) While it is no longer
the case that the expression "brewed coffee" is a pejorative in the
UK, in my experience it is still easier to get good coffee in most of
the US than in the UK (even Seattle, where the coffee is overrated).
It is still nearly impossible to get a straight espresso in the UK
which isn't horribly overextracted; while not easy in the US, it is
easier there than here. (On the other hand, thanks to the spread of
plunger-pot coffee over here in the last decade, good non-machined
coffee might well be slightly more common now in the UK than in the
US.)
- David R.
(back in the UK for a while, so "here" means "UK" in the above)
D Walker
>>
>> : Nah, you've got it the wrong way around.
>> : Best coffees (topmost = best, bottom = worst)
>> : Italian,
>> : French
>> : English
>> : American
>America encompasses a vast area, so don't lump it all in one category,
>pulleeease. We have great coffee in Seattle!
Hate to prolong this off-topic/wrong NG thread, but I just tried MacDonald's
coffee for the first time (in memory, anyhow), and suddenly understand why
people think American coffee is the worst in the world. (Not that I could
detect any actual evidence of coffee in the burnt-cardboard sludge.)
Mike
k>, Alex Buell <alex....@tahallah.demon.co.uk> penned
>On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Jeannie wrote:
>
>> pulleeease. We have great coffee in Seattle!
>
I quite fancy going to Seattle, although I've no real idea why.
Maybe it's just the name - it sounds kinda modern...
Mike
--
http://www.urban75.com/ UK webzine
"urban75 burns with urgency and passion" Wired Magazine
Jeannie
Steve Firth <fil...@civet.firthcom.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1dqiqc1.1xr...@civet.firthcom.demon.co.uk...
Coffees are like hometowns. You always support your own whether it's good
or bad. Anyway, I drink tea.
Alex, you can visit anytime, but bring your own coffee.
~~
*Veel liefs, kussen en omhelzingen en je bent in mijn gedachten*
Jeannie
~~
Alex Buell
> Alex, you can visit anytime, but bring your own coffee.
OK, we could have a coffee cook-off. Decide what coffees rules the world..