What is the consensus on healthiest butter substitution?
http://nutritionsoftware.org
non-butter?
Thanks for your suggestions.
--
Editor, Internet's Convenient and Unbiased Directory of Nutrition Software
http://nutritionsoftware.org
Larry Hoover
"http://nutritionsoftware.org" <nsedit...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:61lw9.377$982.9...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Frankly, my opinion is that butter from free-range cattle is a pretty
healthy substance, if you're looking for fat to spread on bread. I've never
looked into the non-hydrogenated margarines, so I have no idea what's really
in them.
Caveat
>Also one that has similar or good taste. Is this too much to ask from
>non-butter?
>Thanks for your suggestions.
We use Smart Balance Light. No trans fats, lactose free, 5 grams fat
per TBSP (8%), 45 calories, tastes very close to real butter. The
Regular Smart Balance (not the Light) is almost as healthy, and more
widely available. Best stuff we've found.
Caveat
Faux_Pseudo
> non-butter?
The problem with butter and non-butter is the transfatty acids not the
fat. I avoid the whole problem with this by using olive oil. Still
tastes good but no transfatty acids. And of course you can flavor it
with lots of herbs and other things. I haven't bought "butter" in a
number of years now. But don't try this in a baked goods. For that
you want real butter.
'---...____ Faux_Pseudo ________________...---~~~
--
.-')) http://asciipr0n.com/fp ('-. | It's a damn poor mind that
' ..- .:" ) New content ( ":. -.. ' | can only think of one way to
((,,_;'.;' 10 / 30 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
((_.;'*Faux_Pseudo*':._)) | - Andrew Jackson
Melissa
stuff. I don't use much, but when I do I want the real thing. The calories
may be higher, but as far as "healthier" goes, the real thing is much better
for you than the fake stuff.
Melissa
"http://nutritionsoftware.org" <nsedit...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:61lw9.377$982.9...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Paul Chefurka
>Also one that has similar or good taste. Is this too much to ask from
>non-butter?
>Thanks for your suggestions.
What's the problem with butter? At the quantities most people consume
you'd have to be a pretty dedicated anti-sat to find much wrong with it.
We all need some real flavour in our lives. If you're worried about sats
cut back a bit on the beef and pork. There is no substitute for butter
AFAIC.
Paul
BOB
nutritionsoftware wrote...
> http://nutsoftware.org
>
I don't particularly care for hydrogenated oils. Some research has shown them to be much worse for
you than natural fats as found in butter. Butter tastes much better
BOB
and PLEASE stop the crossposting.
zxcvbob
I also vote for the regular Smart Balance. Good quality non-hydrogenated
margarine, hardened with coconut oil or maybe it's palm kernal oil. It
tastes good too.
Best regards,
Bob
Puester
>
> We use only real butter, never the fake plastic
> stuff. I don't use much, but when I do I want the real thing. The calories
> may be higher, but as far as "healthier" goes, the real thing is much better
> for you than the fake stuff.
>
Not according to my cardiologist! There ARE diets other than
weight reduction, remember.
gloria p
Priscilla Ballou
Puester <pue...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Ever hear of trans-fatty acids? No margarine for me, thanks. Butter in
moderation.
Priscilla
--
"As you get older, physical deterioration is offset by a larger world view
and a deeper sense of gratitude." Diane Keaton
Priscilla Ballou
zxcvbob <b...@area51online.net> wrote:
You do realize that coconut and palm kernal oils are horrible for you?
Puester
>
> In article <3DC1ECEF...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Puester <pue...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > Melissa wrote:
> > >
> > > We use only real butter, never the fake plastic
> > > stuff. I don't use much, but when I do I want the real thing. The calories
> > > may be higher, but as far as "healthier" goes, the real thing is much better
> > > for you than the fake stuff.
> >
> > Not according to my cardiologist! There ARE diets other than
> > weight reduction, remember.
>
> Ever hear of trans-fatty acids? No margarine for me, thanks. Butter in
> moderation.
>
Ever hear of cholesterol and coronary artery disease?
There ARE a few margarines out there without trans fats.
gloria p
Kajikit
03:02:08 GMT ... or else it was an imposter and we're all in trouble:
It's all a question of volume anyway. How much margerine/butter are
you actually USING? A slice or two of bread per day? That's not going
to kill you whatever you put on it.
I HATE the taste of butter, plus I'm lactose-intolerant. We've been
using polyunsaturated margerine all my life, and my cholesterol is
just fine thank you. Margerine goes on my bread and in my cakes, but
if the meal involves a frying pan I use olive oil. I tried olive oil
on bread but it was just too greasy for my tastes.
--
To err is human... to really foul things up add kitten and stir.
Karen AKA Kajikit
Come and visit my part of the web:
Kajikit's Corner: http://Kajikit.netfirms.com/
Aussie Support Mailing List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AussieSupport
Allergyfree Eating Recipe Swap: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Allergyfree_Eating
Ample Aussies Mailing List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ampleaussies/
Feuer
> It's all a question of volume anyway. How much margerine/butter are
> you actually USING? A slice or two of bread per day? That's not going
> to kill you whatever you put on it.
Some people put huge amounts of butter on a single slice of bread.
> I HATE the taste of butter, plus I'm lactose-intolerant. We've been
Butter contains relatively little lactose. Cultured "European style"
butter has even less lactose, and you may (or may not) like the flavor
better.
> using polyunsaturated margerine all my life,
polyunsaturated fat is supposed to be bad for you too... They say
monounsaturated (like olive oil) is the way to go.
David
Tony Florida
okay to spray, but that's the limit. I use butter, and a
European-style butter (not sure what that means) that they sell
where my wife works. It actually tastes like the butter I
remember as a little kid, maybe 50 years ago! (Oh, my...)
What little need I have for butter, I still use the real thing
and just use less. (It's 3X the point value of margarine, after
all.....<g>)
Tony Florida
259/254/155
=============
Paul Chefurka <pa...@chefurka.com> wrote in message
news:t3q3suka4praipman...@4ax.com...
Sandy
The taste of butter is primarily from the salt (try the taste of a
salt-free butter :)
I haven't used any grease spread for bread for decades, and I don't
notice it missing.
Sandy
zxcvbob
>
> In article <3DC1EA70...@area51online.net>,
> zxcvbob <b...@area51online.net> wrote:
>
> > Caveat wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 01:45:38 GMT, "http://nutritionsoftware.org"
> > > <nsedit...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Also one that has similar or good taste. Is this too much to ask from
> > > >non-butter?
> > > >Thanks for your suggestions.
> > >
> > > We use Smart Balance Light. No trans fats, lactose free, 5 grams fat
> > > per TBSP (8%), 45 calories, tastes very close to real butter. The
> > > Regular Smart Balance (not the Light) is almost as healthy, and more
> > > widely available. Best stuff we've found.
> > >
> > > Caveat
> >
> >
> > I also vote for the regular Smart Balance. Good quality non-hydrogenated
> > margarine, hardened with coconut oil or maybe it's palm kernal oil. It
> > tastes good too.
>
> You do realize that coconut and palm kernal oils are horrible for you?
>
> Priscilla
In the quantity necessary to harden canola oil and olive oil, I don't think
so. A pound of margarine lasts me at least 2 or 3 months; I use it because
I like it better than butter on my toast in the morning. I suspect that
trans-fatty acids are bad in any quantity, but I still use a little
shortening and cheap margarine for cooking. I also use real butter for
cooking when I think it will make a difference (like sugar cookies or
shortbread).
I would use lard for cooking if I could get *good* lard. It's horrible for
you too, or so I've been told (and told and told). I'm not sure I believe
it.
Best regards,
Bob
Pablo
"Puester" <pue...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3DC1F0E5...@worldnet.att.net...
> Priscilla Ballou wrote:
> > Ever hear of trans-fatty acids? No margarine for me,
thanks. Butter in
> > moderation.
> >
>
>
> Ever hear of cholesterol and coronary artery disease?
> There ARE a few margarines out there without trans fats.
>
My favorite butter substitution is the Brown and Brummel
spread, which they advertise is made with yogurt. I don't
have the cardboard container to get the cholesterol info,
but they now claim to be free of trans-fatty acids. The
website lists: 5g Fat; 1g Saturated Fat per Serving. I
think it's best on bread, OK melted on vegetables, but I've
never baked with it. It's still mainly fat, though, so I
use it in moderation.
Pablo
Tony Lew
I guess all those backward Frenchmen (and women) and Northern
Italians haven't. Sad to see how they're dropping dead of heart
attacks in such great numbers because they're stupid enough
to consume so much butter.
Nice Guy
I agree. I use Smart Ba
ac7
lance as a substitute for Crisco or Lard in some baking recipes, but
butter is the only way to go for corn on the cob.
-David
321/245/185
Steve
the Seattle area...
kristen
really find something healthy, go to a natural or health food store. I
used to always be into stuff labeled ‘healthy', ‘low fat‘, ‘heart
smart' only to find out later it's complete junk. It's pretty amazing
what they can sell you with a ‘healthy' label on it! Since I've gone
organic, the difference in how I feel is absolutely incredible! As far
as the substitute, I use this stuff called "Soy Garden Buttery Spread"
and I really like it. And so does my extremely picky 14-year old
daughter, which means a lot.
Really if you buy organic butter, it will still be a lot healthier
than any unnatural substitute. I remember years ago eating "smart"
balance. But I remember artificial colors, artificial flavors, a few
unrecognizable ingredients, and highly saturated fats. I think if you
use it to cook or bake, it will break up into trans-fats, which is
very scary.
Good Luck,
Kristen
Feuer
> The taste of butter is primarily from the salt (try the taste of a
> salt-free butter :)
I use unsalted butter almost exclusively. It has a very distinct
flavor.
>
> I haven't used any grease spread for bread for decades, and I don't
> notice it missing.
If you haven't had it in decades, you wouldn't notice its absence,
but rather its presence.
David
Feuer
Faux_Pseudo wrote:
>
> _.--- http://nutritionsoftware.org spoke in rec.food.cooking --------._
> > Also one that has similar or good taste. Is this too much to ask from
> > non-butter?
>
> The problem with butter and non-butter is the transfatty acids not the
> fat. I avoid the whole problem with this by using olive oil. Still
> tastes good but no transfatty acids. And of course you can flavor it
The trans stuff is only in hydrogenated oils, like margarine and
shortening. It is _not_ in butter. The main trouble with butter is
just that it has a lot of saturated fat (as does margarine), and that
it has a fair bit of cholesterol (though how much that matters I don't
know).
David
Alpha Male
"http://nutritionsoftware.org" <nsedit...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:61lw9.377$982.9...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> Also one that has similar or good taste. Is this too much to ask from
> non-butter?
> Thanks for your suggestions.
>
I use so little of it, but favor the Tfa-free brands. I don't worry about
Taste, as I suspect the tastiest are chemically enhanced. They probably have
flavor-enhancers that would make doggie poop taste good.
Pick yer poison:
> Better than Butter?
http://www.cspinet.org/nah/12_01/
Margarine/Spreads Chart:
http://www.cspinet.org/nah/12_01/chart.html
bicker
> I like Real Food myself.
Where can I buy that brand? :-p
There is no reason to think "real food" is always better than stuff
human ingenuity has come up with.
For example, I could make pudding from raw milk, or I could make it
from the pasteurized, homogenized, skim milk. Even though the latter
is processed, I believe it is a superior choice for a variety of
reasons.
Similarly, I could have a raw egg shake ("real food") for breakfast,
or I could have a protein powder shake. The fact is that the protein
shake is more nutritious, more filling, and has a lower propensity for
causing disease.
Even in cases where individual foods aren't specifically harmful,
often the artificial choice fosters better health, overall, than the
"real food" alternative. I know that if I were to eat butter (for
example) wherever I'm currently using PAM buttery spray (which is
really just oil, salt and propellant), I'd end up gaining weight,
since I'm currently maintaining, and would end up using more "real
food" butter than I would use the spray. Again, in that case, the
human ingenuity improved the product, in terms of my ability to manage
my health.
> We use only real butter, never the fake plastic
> stuff. I don't use much, but when I do I want the real thing. The calories
> may be higher, but as far as "healthier" goes, the real thing is much better
> for you than the fake stuff.
And not using any at all is "healthier" than that. However, that's
not the only consideration.
--
¤bicker¤ 263/158
alt.supp...@brianandrobbie.com BP: 130/80 -> 100/60
See web site for Total Cholesterol: 256->200
before and after photos. Waist: 46 -> 34
http://brianandrobbie.com BF%: 39% -> 13%
Shelley Walsh
http://nutritionsoftware.org at nsedit...@hotmail.com wrote on 1/11/02
1:45 am:
> Also one that has similar or good taste. Is this too much to ask from
> non-butter?
> Thanks for your suggestions.
This gives me a chance to mention my suggestion for a spread to see what
people think of it. I use grassfed unsalted butter, and lately I have been
mixing it with a little bit of olive oil. My impression is that it will help
the fat composition and make it healthier, and it also has the advantage of
making it softer and easier to spread. In the fridge the olive oil gets
thicker, so it blends reasonably well with the butter. I don't use large
amounts of it, so when I buy butter I divide it in several pieces and freeze
the ones I am not using, and take them out to thaw when the batch I am using
gets low. It seems to be sort of the idea behind a spread called Olivio, but
much simpler, and doesn't clog the fridge with the large tubs. I figured the
Italians dip bread in Olive oil, but that's runny and a bit of a nuissance.
Butter, on the other hand, can be inconvenient for spreading, because it is
too hard, so mixing them I can get a better spread than either, and it
tastes pretty good too.
Anybody see any problems with this?
--
Shelley Walsh
She...@shells.demon.co.uk
http://homepage.mac.com/shelleywalsh
Melissa
I'm not. I'd rather have a teaspoon of real butter on my toast. The same
goes for a baked potato. He likes FF Ranch dressing, but I don't. I want
some salt and butter, and little sour cream. We've tried some of the
"butter substitues" and I hated the way it made my toast soggy. You can't
cook or bake with most of the either, so rather than buy 2-3 different
products, I buy real butter. It just tastes better.
We look at lots of foods the same way...no more FF ice cream or FF cookies.
On the rare occassions that I buy ice cream, I buy Good Ice Cream such as
Bryers.
Melissa
"bicker" <alt.supp...@brianandrobbie.com.1NVAL1D> wrote in message
news:3dc77622...@news7.beaconwoods.org...
Sandy
>Sandy wrote:
>
>> The taste of butter is primarily from the salt (try the taste of a
>> salt-free butter :)
>
>I use unsalted butter almost exclusively. It has a very distinct
>flavor.
What do you use it on? No salt in that?
I believe that salt is used partly as a taste enhancer, and foods
without the usual levels are IMO bland if not downright incipid.
Still there was that woman on the news recently who used to binge on
straight olive oil from the bottle.
>> I haven't used any grease spread for bread for decades, and I don't
>> notice it missing.
>
>If you haven't had it in decades, you wouldn't notice its absence,
>but rather its presence.
No, I very occasionally cop a sandwich away from home with butter on
it, and I honestly can't really taste it. I do like sarnies with
strong tasting fillers such raw onions, however.
Sandy
Felice Friese
butter on my toast than a large glob of any substitute.
Felice
Arri London
Same here! I'd much rather eat less meat than dispense
completely with butter.
We have cut down on butter (and other saturated fats); a
pound of unsalted butter lasts us about six weeks. That's
using it on bread, finishing sauces, mixed with oils for
sauteeing and in baking. Not to mention the small chip one
cat (the other won't eat butter) gets everyday for hairball
control!
Snot
> Also one that has similar or good taste. Is this too
much to ask from
> non-butter?
> Thanks for your suggestions.
> --
> Editor, Internet's Convenient and Unbiased Directory of
Nutrition Software
> http://nutritionsoftware.org
I think you have to understand that if you want a
healthy spread for breads, nothing you try will taste
like butter. So, with that in mind, I found that
Smart Beat was a tasty alternative (surprisingly).
Ultimately, EVO would be the most flavorful and
healthy alternative to animal fats. Seems like in
many instances, the only extra ingredient that lowers
the grams of fat per serving is water that has been
incorporated into the spreads. So - I stick to butter
and EVO, and some good margarines for baking.
Snot
--------------------------------------------
wyslane z serwisu easy cookbook - kukbuk izy
http://www.kuchnia.serwisy.net
http://www.kuchnia.serwisy.net.pl
--------------------------------------------
bear...@cruller.invalid
> > I haven't used any grease spread for bread for decades, and I don't
> > notice it missing.
>
> If you haven't had it in decades, you wouldn't notice its absence,
> but rather its presence.
I haven't eaten butter since my heart attack a few years back. Recently
someone fed me a slice of home made bread. Brother, I could tell
_instantly_ it was cooked with butter. I practically inhaled the slice.
Delicious. The woman who made it told me she'd only used 1 tablespoon.
My cardiologist would cut my heart out if he knew :-)
Does anyone know if the Benacol (a butter-sub spread that's supposed to
lower cholesterol) controversy has been furthered by either the FDA or
the producer (I think it's McNeil Corporation) since the 3/25/99 article
appeared in CSPI's (the "Heart Attack On A Plate" people) Nutrition
Action Newsletter?
--
"No Fear"? Fear is prudent. Acting in spite of it is courage.
Without fear, there is no courage.
zxcvbob
Your body manufactures its own cholesterol.
Eating fatty foods probably influences serum cholesterol, but it is
probably not a *simple* influence. Eating lots of cholesterol doesn't
necessarily increase serum cholesterol levels. Perhaps it does. It is
just as possible that dietary cholesterol *lowers* serum cholesterol. Or
it may affect some people one way and others totally different based on
their heredity or other enviromental factors.
For years (out of laziness) dieticians and cardiologists just assumed that
dietary cholesterol increased serum cholesterol. It was a convienient
truism. Now, perhaps due to pressure from the egg people, they are looking
into it and it is not so simple.
Do you like shrimp? It is low in fat (until you fry it :-) but *loaded*
with cholesterol.
I think the extra 25 pounds I'm carrying and the sedentary job I have are a
far greater risk to my heart than the cholesterol I eat. Cholesterol is
not even on my radar screen. Trans- fatty acids are, barely. When I get
serious about my health, I'll start exercising.
Best regards,
Bob
PENMART01
Whenever possible I eat fried foods, including those fried in butter, from
paper plates. Fried eggs with fried potatoes taste just as good from a paper
plate and even though a goodly amount of fat is sucked up by the paper plate
the lost fat is not missed. When I do Chinese Take Out I eat from paper plates
too...amazing how much fat is sucked up by the paper, especially from fried
rice. And afterwards I don't need to wash dishes... paper plates are my
favorite china... I just don't use them for anyting I need to cut with a knife,
a burger yes but a steak no.
And I don't much concern myself with the chemistry of various fats, I eat meat
so I eat butter. I also eat olive oil, corn oil and sunflower oil... that's
the extent. Oh, and I use Crisco for baking. My mother used to buy margerine
when I was a kid... as an adult I've never bought any.
Sheldon . . . Rocket Scientist
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Nancy Young
> I haven't eaten butter since my heart attack a few years back. Recently
> someone fed me a slice of home made bread. Brother, I could tell
> _instantly_ it was cooked with butter. I practically inhaled the slice.
> Delicious. The woman who made it told me she'd only used 1 tablespoon.
>
> My cardiologist would cut my heart out if he knew :-)
I am SO not a doctor, but really, the white bread I make has maybe
1 tablespoon to a loaf, something like that. You'd have to eat the
whole loaf to get yourself around a tablespoon of butter. It's hard
for me to think the amount of butter in a slice is actually that
bad for you. But, whatever you do, you get your medical advice from
your physician, not from me. Just seems like overkill to me.
nancy
Alpha Male
"kristen" <krist...@hotmail.com> wrote in part:
> First, I would say stay away from conventional grocery stores. To
> really find something healthy, go to a natural or health food store. I
> used to always be into stuff labeled 'healthy', 'low fat', 'heart
> smart' only to find out later it's complete junk. It's pretty amazing
> what they can sell you with a 'healthy' label on it!
Imo, it's pretty amazing the number of Unhealthy foods at the "Health" food
stores. I suspect all those boxed foods aren't natural. I don't ever recall
seeing boxes of granola hanging from a tree or growing in a garden. Or how
about those healthy Energy bars....loaded with organic coconut oil or palm
kernel oil (twice as saturated as lard), might be enuf to give you an
Organic heart attack.
I'd like to see the label on your "soy garden" spread. (quite likely made
from FrankenSoy beans)
Hope yer not drinking that Silk Soy milk...there's something u might wanna
know. Let me know.
<Jon K>
--
I think...
therefore I am...
single
bear...@cruller.invalid
Nancy Young <qwe...@mail.monmouth.com> wrote:
> the white bread I make has maybe 1 tablespoon to a loaf, something
> like that. You'd have to eat the whole loaf to get yourself around
> a tablespoon of butter. It's hard for me to think the amount of
> butter in a slice is actually that bad for you.
Yah, it depends on your condition and genetic predisposition, from what
I can tell. With one cardiac "event" under my belt and (put simply)
ateries that collect cholesterol like misers save gold, any fat for me
is bad fat (the way I see it, though, you only go around once! And that
bread was SO good!:-).
Lawrence Foard
Nice Guy <ni...@meanpeoplesuck.com> wrote:
>
>I agree. I use Smart Ba
>ac7
>lance as a substitute for Crisco or Lard in some baking recipes, but
>butter is the only way to go for corn on the cob.
Olive oil makes a good butter substitute for many things, expecially
as a bread spread (although I'm largely avoiding breads these days).
--
Be a counter terrorist perpetrate random senseless acts of kindness
Rave: Immanentization of the Eschaton in a Temporary Autonomous Zone.
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bicker
> "bicker" <alt.supp...@brianandrobbie.com.1NVAL1D> wrote in message
> news:3dc77622...@news7.beaconwoods.org...
> > On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 02:41:59 GMT, "Melissa" <nos...@noway.com> wrote:
> > > I like Real Food myself.
> > Where can I buy that brand? :-p
> On the rare occassions that I buy ice cream, I buy Good Ice Cream such as
> Bryers.
I agree that many fat-free choices aren't worth the bother. There are
many things for which we wouldn't buy the FF alternative, but if we
would ever partake of that food would use the higher fat alternative.
Ice cream, though, isn't one of those. We've found some excellent
low-fat alternatives that make "wasting calories" on full-fat ice
creams unthinkable for us.
Of course, ice cream is actually one of the few items sold in stores
that actually is arguably "real food." Breyers is made from cream and
eggs and sugar, etc. By contrast, you also mentioned cookies: Even
Mrs. Field's Premium Cookies have preservatives, emulsifiers and other
ingredients that would disqualify it from being considered "real
food." Very little that we can buy actually is "real food" -- but it
doesn't really matter since, as I indicated before, there isn't
anything about "real food" that requires it to be "better" than the
alternatives in every case.
TdN
> in article 61lw9.377$982.9...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com,
> http://nutritionsoftware.org at nsedit...@hotmail.com wrote on 1/11/02
> 1:45 am:
>
> > Also one that has similar or good taste. Is this too much to ask from
> > non-butter?
> > Thanks for your suggestions.
>
> This gives me a chance to mention my suggestion for a spread to see what
> people think of it. I use grassfed unsalted butter, and lately I have been
> mixing it with a little bit of olive oil.
That sounds great!
My low-fat, cholesterol-watching husband pours a whisper of olive oil
(sometimes from a special bottle that has a garlic clove marinating in
it) right on his toast. He says it's delicious.
I don't eat bread at all (low-carb girl), but I always use butter
rather than margarine, per Dr. Weil.
Between the two of us, the hub and I use about 1 pound of butter per
year. (We freeze it so it lasts that long.) Unsalted butter from
free-range cows, please!
> My impression is that it will help
> the fat composition and make it healthier, and it also has the advantage of
> making it softer and easier to spread. In the fridge the olive oil gets
> thicker, so it blends reasonably well with the butter. I don't use large
> amounts of it, so when I buy butter I divide it in several pieces and freeze
> the ones I am not using, and take them out to thaw when the batch I am using
> gets low. It seems to be sort of the idea behind a spread called Olivio, but
> much simpler, and doesn't clog the fridge with the large tubs. I figured the
> Italians dip bread in Olive oil, but that's runny and a bit of a nuissance.
> Butter, on the other hand, can be inconvenient for spreading, because it is
> too hard, so mixing them I can get a better spread than either, and it
> tastes pretty good too.
>
> Anybody see any problems with this?
I think that's a great idea. Another tip--from my brother--is to make
two slices of toast, butter one with the amount of butter you
ordinarily use, then put the other slice on top of it (like a
sandwich) and flip it over a couple of times. He says you don't even
miss the butter you'd put on the other slice.
T.
Hua Kul
>
> You do realize that coconut and palm kernal oils are horrible for you?
>
oils like corn and soybean, and MUCH better than trans fats.
Information to the contrary was promulgated by our domestic grain oil
industry in the 1940's and 1950's as the cheaper tropical oils started
to gain a bigger market share in the US. They saved their industry
but have helped ruin our health.
http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/28/coconut_health.htm
--Hua Kul
Melissa
I make cookies if I want them, but usually only for the holidays. The same
goes for those baked lard cookies they sell in the mall...man they are
horrible. Usually underbaked and take like crisco and chocolate. Ugh...
I do keep animal crackers or small cookies on hand cuz hubby likes one bite
of something sweet after dinner. I don't like them much, so they're not a
temptation for me. One little bag lasts a month around here.
We just don't do much with sweet stuff here, I only used the Ice Cream as an
analogy. We just don't eat much of that type of thing, desserts in general
are scarce here. My husband and I both like to eat "food", so we use our
calories for pizza etc on the weekends. Neither of us has a big sweet
tooth. We used to go to a Sunday School class that took turns bringing
donuts. I can't tell you the number of people that didn't believe we just
don't like eating donuts. My husband NEVER eats them, and I might have a
maple cream stick twice a year. But lots of people teased us about
"dieting" etc, and just didn't seem to be able to understand we just don't
care for that type of sweet junk food.
Melissa, who is having pizza tonight as a matter of fact
"bicker" <alt.supp...@brianandrobbie.com.1NVAL1D> wrote in message
news:3dc2d8b4....@news7.beaconwoods.org...
Hua Kul
> non-butter?
> Thanks for your suggestions.
My wife and I like to use Smart Squeeze for some things. It's made of
water, food starch, salt, and natural flavor. Per tablespoon it has 5
calories, 1g of carbs, and no fat. It has a very natural flavor.
It's a thick liquid in a squeeze bottle, distributed by GFA Brands,
Inc; PO Box 397, Cresskill, NJ, 07626; 201.568.9300 (I am just a
disinterested customer). I plan to try mixing it with some coconut
oil for the good effects of the oil and to give a little mouth feel of
fat.
--Hua Kul
sky-hi
the flavor of unsalted butter is much better - at least in my
experience.
Dimitri
"http://nutritionsoftware.org" <nsedit...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:61lw9.377$982.9...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> Also one that has similar or good taste. Is this too much to ask from
> non-butter?
> Thanks for your suggestions.
Olive Oil
Nexis
"Priscilla Ballou" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:vze23t8n-C1883A...@news.bellatlantic.net...
> zxcvbob <b...@area51online.net> wrote:
>
> > Caveat wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 01:45:38 GMT, "http://nutritionsoftware.org"
> > > <nsedit...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >non-butter?
> > > >Thanks for your suggestions.
> > >
> > > per TBSP (8%), 45 calories, tastes very close to real butter. The
> > > Regular Smart Balance (not the Light) is almost as healthy, and more
> > > widely available. Best stuff we've found.
> > >
> > > Caveat
> >
> >
> > I also vote for the regular Smart Balance. Good quality
non-hydrogenated
> > margarine, hardened with coconut oil or maybe it's palm kernal oil. It
> > tastes good too.
>
> You do realize that coconut and palm kernal oils are horrible for you?
>
>
My father had a quintuple bypass and Smart Balance was *recommended* to him
by his cardiologist....and no he isn't a flake, he's one of the top in his
field. So I'm guessing that if there are any of either of those in Smart
Balance, the amount of it is negligible. The key facts about Smart Balance
are that it has no transfatty acids and no hydrogenated fats, both of which
contribute to rising cholesterol and other cardiovascular problems.
kimberly
peanutjake
"http://nutritionsoftware.org" <nsedit...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:61lw9.377$982.9...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> non-butter?
> Thanks for your suggestions.
>
> Editor, Internet's Convenient and Unbiased Directory of Nutrition Software
> http://nutritionsoftware.org
Abstinence is healthier than substitutes.
Taste the food. Not the butter.
PJ
bicker
> "bicker" <alt.supp...@brianandrobbie.com.1NVAL1D> wrote in message
> news:3dc2d8b4....@news7.beaconwoods.org...
> > On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:56:59 GMT, "Melissa" <nos...@noway.com> wrote:
> > > "bicker" <alt.supp...@brianandrobbie.com.1NVAL1D> wrote in message
> > > news:3dc77622...@news7.beaconwoods.org...
> > > > On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 02:41:59 GMT, "Melissa" <nos...@noway.com> wrote:
> > > > > I like Real Food myself.
> > > > human ingenuity has come up with.
Well you can't please everyone.
> I do keep animal crackers or small cookies on hand
Artificial flavoring, not to mention formulated sweetening agents like
High Fructose Corn Syrup.
> We just don't do much with sweet stuff here, . . .
I think you're missing the point.
sky-hi
Clarify the butter and keep it in the refrigerator. It will melt very
easily when you want to use it. By clarify, I mean melt the butter and
cook it at low temperature until all of the white stuff has risen to
the top and been skimmed off. Then pour off the clear liquid while
leaving the brown residue at the bottom behind. Don't put the white
stuff down the drain, because it will clog it.
It won't work as a good substitute for butter in baking, however.
On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 01:45:38 GMT, "http://nutritionsoftware.org"
<nsedit...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dave Hitt
>Here's an unusual suggestion.
>Clarify the butter and keep it in the refrigerator. It will melt very
>easily when you want to use it. By clarify, I mean melt the butter and
>cook it at low temperature until all of the white stuff has risen to
>the top and been skimmed off. Then pour off the clear liquid while
>leaving the brown residue at the bottom behind. Don't put the white
>stuff down the drain, because it will clog it.
>It won't work as a good substitute for butter in baking, however.
There is no good substitute for butter in baking. You can get away
with using different things, but none of them will give you the flavor
or cooking characteristics of butter.
Trust the cow, not the chemist.
Dave Hitt
----
Hollywood wants to examine your hard drive.
http://www.davehitt.com/oct02/vigilantes.html
blake murphy
>>
>>
>> Ever hear of cholesterol and coronary artery disease?
>
>Italians haven't. Sad to see how they're dropping dead of heart
>attacks in such great numbers because they're stupid enough
>to consume so much butter.
>
but they're winos!
your abstemious pal,
blake
blake murphy
wrote:
>I think the extra 25 pounds I'm carrying and the sedentary job I have are a
>far greater risk to my heart than the cholesterol I eat. Cholesterol is
>not even on my radar screen. Trans- fatty acids are, barely. When I get
>serious about my health, I'll start exercising.
>
>Best regards,
>Bob
forgive me if i repeat myself, but my dad swears his cardiologist said
'never worry about your heart. it will last you as long as you live.'
your pal,
blake
HPBudlong
Hmm, latest things I've been reading in health journals is that they aren't
horrible for you and contain have all kinds of beneficial properties!
Sorry don't have a reference on where I read it - but it's been in a number of
"nutrition" oriented newsletters.
Arri London
ROTFL! But that is exactly true...
Tony Lew
> > Ever hear of cholesterol and coronary artery disease?
>
> Your body manufactures its own cholesterol.
>
> Eating fatty foods probably influences serum cholesterol, but it is
> probably not a *simple* influence. Eating lots of cholesterol doesn't
> necessarily increase serum cholesterol levels. Perhaps it does. It is
> just as possible that dietary cholesterol *lowers* serum cholesterol. Or
> it may affect some people one way and others totally different based on
> their heredity or other enviromental factors.
>
> For years (out of laziness) dieticians and cardiologists just assumed that
> dietary cholesterol increased serum cholesterol. It was a convienient
> truism. Now, perhaps due to pressure from the egg people, they are looking
> into it and it is not so simple.
A Harvard epidemiologist did a study about a year ago that showed that
cholesterol consumption only affected cholesterol in diabetics.
It didn't affect non-diabetics.
Tim Vanhoof
> The taste of butter is primarily from the salt
?????
>(try the taste of a
> salt-free butter :)
Have done .. it tastes like butter.
> I haven't used any grease spread for bread for decades, and I don't
> notice it missing.
Perhaps you're not the best person to tell people what butter tastes
like, then.
Sandy
wrote:
Why? Does cessation of butter consumption erase your memory?
Yes, I used to enjoy butter on freshly baked crusty bread, but there
are many other less calorie packed alternatives to enjoy.
I chose more, less calorie-dense foods.
I have tried salt free (not salt reduced) butter and it tasted rather
oily, nauseous and bland to me. Perhaps my memory is failing (due to
lack of butter) or I have a unique taste sense.
Sandy
The Real Bev
> I have tried salt free (not salt reduced) butter and it tasted rather
> oily, nauseous and bland to me. Perhaps my memory is failing (due to
> lack of butter) or I have a unique taste sense.
It probably depends on what you grew up eating. I'd never choose unsalted
butter, but I know people who like it and it certainly tastes better than
margarine.
It may be noted that not all high blood pressure victims react badly to
salt. Check with your doctor...
--
Cheers,
Bev
=================================================================
"There's an apocryphal (I hope not !) story about a Bristol bike
thief found cold, wet and bedraggled one morning, D locked by the
neck to a local bridge." -- Anon
Sandy
<bas...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
>Sandy wrote:
>
>> I have tried salt free (not salt reduced) butter and it tasted rather
>> oily, nauseous and bland to me. Perhaps my memory is failing (due to
>> lack of butter) or I have a unique taste sense.
>
>It probably depends on what you grew up eating. I'd never choose unsalted
>butter, but I know people who like it and it certainly tastes better than
>margarine.
You're probably right, there. I didn't mind marg when I ate it,
--couldn't tell it from butter myself -:)
>It may be noted that not all high blood pressure victims react badly to
>salt. Check with your doctor...
Interesting the salt and hypertension link.
Rats given salt water to drink will become hypertensive, but as you
say, humans have a large variation. New Guinea natives get almost no
salt in their diets, and they can run up mountains with bloodpressures
that would have you and me flat on our backs unconscious.
Sandy
Alpha Male
<bear...@cruller.invalid> wrote in message
news:bearclaw-EAB5E2...@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <3DC2AC7F...@mail.monmouth.com>,
> Nancy Young <qwe...@mail.monmouth.com> wrote:
>
> > the white bread I make has maybe 1 tablespoon to a loaf, something
> > like that. You'd have to eat the whole loaf to get yourself around
> > a tablespoon of butter. It's hard for me to think the amount of
> > butter in a slice is actually that bad for you.
>
> Yah, it depends on your condition and genetic predisposition, from what
> I can tell. With one cardiac "event" under my belt and (put simply)
> ateries that collect cholesterol like misers save gold, any fat for me
> is bad fat (the way I see it, though, you only go around once! And that
> bread was SO good!:-).
Genetics or not, I'm inclined to believe cholesterol doesn't "stick" to
healthy arteries. Something is damaging the inner lining (endothelium) of
your arteries. Common suspects seem to be: smoking, hi levels of blood
sugar, cortisol, insulin, triglycerides, iron, & hi BP. Seems cholesterol is
merely patching the damage. At this time, it makes more sense to me than
viewing cholesterol as the instigator.
Have a few articles if interested.
zxcvbob
Alpha Male wrote:
>
> Genetics or not, I'm inclined to believe cholesterol doesn't "stick" to
> healthy arteries. Something is damaging the inner lining (endothelium) of
> your arteries. Common suspects seem to be: smoking, hi levels of blood
> sugar, cortisol, insulin, triglycerides, iron, & hi BP. Seems cholesterol is
> merely patching the damage. At this time, it makes more sense to me than
> viewing cholesterol as the instigator.
> Have a few articles if interested.
I kind of like the iron theory.
BTW, why are we crossposting to so *many* groups?
Best regards,
Bob
Alpha Male
Am.Heart Assn agrees, altho I think smoking is a bigger culprit. One
Urologist in a health mag sez most (or many?) of his patients inquiring
about Viagra are, or have been longtime smokers.
October 25, 2000
Carole Bullock (214) 706-1279
Car...@heart.org
Abstract P130
American Heart Association meeting report: High iron levels may speed
atherosclerosis and increase risk of heart attack
WASHINGTON, Oct. 25 -- High levels of iron in the body can damage arteries,
speeding the development of atherosclerosis and sharply increasing the risk
of heart attack, according to a study reported today at the 54th Annual Fall
Conference of the American Heart Association's Council for High Blood
Pressure Research.
The researchers found that iron can damage the endothelium -- the inner
lining of the blood vessels. The endothelium keeps blood flowing to the
heart
and brain by expanding and contracting arteries. High cholesterol levels,
diabetes or high blood pressure can damage the endothelium so that it
doesn't
function well.
"A number of studies have demonstrated that elevated iron stores in the body
are closely related to both heart attacks and atherosclerosis of the carotid
arteries, the main arteries leading to the brain, which can cause strokes,"
says Hidehiro Matsuoka, M.D., Ph.D., chief of the Kurume Medical School's
Division of Hypertension, who directed the research. The Japanese study is
the first, however, to show that iron loading has adverse effects on the
endothelium and that reducing iron concentrations in the blood improves
endothelial function.
"Our study shows that we should recognize iron as a risk factor for
atherosclerosis and understand the need to control our body iron levels to
prevent cardiovascular disease," Matsuoka explains.
The researchers believe that iron is somehow interfering with the action of
a
chemical released by the endothelium, called nitric oxide, which plays a
central role in the anti-atherosclerotic effects of the endothelium. Nitric
oxide causes the blood vessels to relax in order to accommodate increased
blood supply pumped by the heart during physical exercise, exertion or other
activity.
One phase of the study focused on a cohort of 10 healthy volunteers, who
were
injected with high doses of iron. High-resolution ultrasound was used to
examine the function of their artery walls. A second phase tracked the
effects of lowering blood levels of iron with a chemical called deferoxamine
in 10 cigarette smokers, all of whom were free of apparent cardiovascular
disease.
The researchers found that iron loading in healthy volunteers increased
levels of the chemical malondialdehyde, a marker of oxidation, and impaired
endothelial function. However, iron removal in smokers significantly
decreased levels of the chemical and restored normal endothelial function.
Too much iron can be particularly dangerous for smokers due to the effects
of
oxidation, which occurs when there are high levels of reactive oxygen
molecules, or "free-radicals," in the blood. Free radicals are associated
with the oxidation of the "bad" low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol,
allowing it to enter and damage the artery walls.
"We wanted to examine the effect of iron removal in smokers because, among
coronary risk factors, smoking is one of the strongest causes of oxidation,"
says Matsuoka. "Collectively, iron impairs endothelial function via
oxidative
stress on the blood vessels," he emphasizes.
"Many scientists attribute the significantly low risk of cardiovascular
disease among pre-menopausal women to the protective effects of estrogen,"
says Matsuoka. "But the hypothesis has been raised that the iron depletion
associated with menstruation also protects against heart disease."
Matsuoka points out that this hypothesis is supported by two large studies
showing that people who donate blood also have a lower risk of heart attacks
and strokes. These findings have led to several prospective studies to
determine if there is any merit to this phenomenon.
"I don't think it's a good idea for people to take in more iron than is
normally contained in a healthful diet," Matsuoka says, "but compared to the
heavy intravenous doses of iron used in our study, oral iron supplements are
relatively safe. Taken orally, excessive iron will be excreted, but
long-term
overload that increases the body's iron stores is strongly associated with
cardiovascular events such as heart attack, chest pain or stroke."
zxcvbob
>
> On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 21:30:34 GMT, sky-hi <sky...@sky-hi.com> wrote:
>
> >Butter with salt in it is usually not as fresh as unsalted butter, so
> >the flavor of unsalted butter is much better - at least in my
> >experience.
>
>
> The same companies make unsalted butter and salted butter, presumably
> at about the same time. What would make you think unsalted was
> fresher?
>
Because it's harder to find and more expensive?
Best regards, ;-)
Bob
"Someday, I've got to have a looonnnggg talk with that boy."
--Jed Clampett
Sandy
Martin Steward) wrote:
>On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 21:30:34 GMT, sky-hi <sky...@sky-hi.com> wrote:
>
>>Butter with salt in it is usually not as fresh as unsalted butter, so
>>the flavor of unsalted butter is much better - at least in my
>>experience.
>
>Good heavens.
>
>The same companies make unsalted butter and salted butter, presumably
>at about the same time. What would make you think unsalted was
>fresher?
Perhaps because it doesn't keep as well without the preservative
effect of the salt? Just a guess.
Sandy
Gym Bob
protection for your artery walls when a mild case of scurvy is present,
usually from the lack of vitamin C. The artery walls break down, become weak
and chloresterol is sent as a backup patch for the damage.
"Alpha Male" <nom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aq6g20$6q40p$1...@ID-119695.news.dfncis.de...
l...@darkmere.gen.nz.invalid
in New Zealand there's two types of spread that are quite popular
at the moment.
One is the spread using avocado oil. This page has more info
http://olivado.co.nz/other.htm#Avezzo
THe other is an olive oil based spread. Olivani and Olivio are two of
the brands I know but there are a few others.
The olivado site has info on the fat content etc even though they are
not the manufacturers http://www.olivado.co.nz/studies2.htm#spreads
Both olivio and avezzo have the NZ National Feart Foundation Tick
I think olivani has it too. http://www.olivani.co.nz/
hth
Lin
lee...@webtv.net
Stan Brown
misc.consumers:
>>the flavor of unsalted butter is much better - at least in my
>>experience.
>
>
>The same companies make unsalted butter and salted butter, presumably
>at about the same time. What would make you think unsalted was
>fresher?
Actually it's the other way 'round. The salt retards spoilage, so of
two pounds made the same day and stored under identical conditions
the salted one will be fresher.
Of course you want to buy _any_ butter from a store where it's s
stored properly and where there is high turnover. But because of its
greater propensity to spoil, this is especially important with
unsalted butter. (Land o Lakes does a nice thing, wrapping unsalted
butter in foil to provide better protection against air.)
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
"Honesty always gives you the advantage of surprise."
-- /Yes, Prime Minister/
Sandy
>Both olivio and avezzo have the NZ National Feart Foundation Tick
I wouldn't eat that, if it gives you wind -:)
Sandy
bear...@cruller.invalid
"Alpha Male" <nom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Common suspects seem to be: smoking, hi levels of blood
> sugar, cortisol, insulin, triglycerides, iron, & hi BP.
Yup. Triglycerides are off the chart. BP was elevated, but I've got that
under control now. None of the other suspects apply. Well, there is that
family history...
--
"No Fear"? Fear is prudent. Acting in spite of it is courage.
Without fear, there is no courage.
sky-hi
Martin Steward) wrote:
>On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 21:30:34 GMT, sky-hi <sky...@sky-hi.com> wrote:
>
>>Butter with salt in it is usually not as fresh as unsalted butter, so
>>the flavor of unsalted butter is much better - at least in my
>>experience.
>
>Good heavens.
>
>The same companies make unsalted butter and salted butter, presumably
>at about the same time. What would make you think unsalted was
>fresher?
My experience is that the flavor of unsalted butter is fresher. This
is probably because the salted butter has been stored longer. I'm not
saying this is always the case, because I wouldn't know. But even if
the salted and unsalted are both fresh, the unsalted tastes better
once you are familiar with it.
>----
>Face your fears.
>Live your dreams.
bicker
Martin Steward) wrote:
> The same companies make unsalted butter and salted butter, presumably
> at about the same time. What would make you think unsalted was
> fresher?
In reality, freshness is simply "more critical" with unsalted butter
than with salted. The salt acts to prevent the butter from spoiling,
so if both butters are the same age (which is as likely as not), then
technically the salted butter will be "fresher."
--
¤bicker¤ 263/158
fit...@brianandrobbie.com BP: 130/80 -> 100/60
bicker
> My experience is that the flavor of unsalted butter is fresher. This
> is probably because the salted butter has been stored longer.
I haven't seen any data to support this. Seems to me that the dairy
would make just enough of what it can sell, and so the freshness of
the product on the shelves would be dependent on how much the public
uses the product.
> I'm not
> saying this is always the case, because I wouldn't know.
Indeed.
> But even if
> the salted and unsalted are both fresh, the unsalted tastes better
> once you are familiar with it.
Just as the salted tastes better once you are familiar with IT.
sky-hi
are adamant, as though you have something to defend. Why is that?
bicker
> On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 06:00:48 -0500, bicker
> <sci.med....@brianandrobbie.com.1NVAL1D> wrote:
> >On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 00:36:05 GMT, pat...@notlocalnet.com (Patricia
> >Martin Steward) wrote:
> >> The same companies make unsalted butter and salted butter, presumably
> >> at about the same time. What would make you think unsalted was
> >> fresher?
> >In reality, freshness is simply "more critical" with unsalted butter
> >than with salted. The salt acts to prevent the butter from spoiling,
> >so if both butters are the same age (which is as likely as not), then
> >technically the salted butter will be "fresher."
Actually, I'm not. I'm simply stating facts, instead of what you
indicated you were stating: your opinion. (The words "In reality"
should have given it away.)
Dave Hitt
wrote:
>One phase of the study focused on a cohort of 10 healthy volunteers,
Ten? Gee, maybe the next time they can find an even smaller sample.
Dave Hitt
----
Hollywood wants to examine your hard drive.
http://www.davehitt.com/oct02/vigilantes.html
David Kusner
would keep for quite a long time. Is it the milk solids? Would this not be a
factor with ghee (clarified butter)?
"bicker" <sci.med....@brianandrobbie.com.1NVAL1D> wrote in message
news:3dc7a487...@news7.beaconwoods.org...
Barry Gold
http://nutritionsoftware.org <nsedit...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Also one that has similar or good taste. Is this too much to ask from
>non-butter?
Butter tastes as good as it does because it *is* butter. Nothing else
is going to taste the same, whether salted or unsalted(*). If you
are milk-intolerant, try Hollywood margerine. Smart Beat isn't bad,
but it's not a solid. (Hint: if it's solid at room temperature, it's
saturated.) "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter" is pretty convincing,
but it's made from buttermilk and contains significant amounts of
lactose, milk proteins, and butterfat. So it won't do if you're
milk-intolerant or if you need to reduce your saturated fat intake.
If you really want something healthy, try straight liquid olive oil -
in moderate quantities, please. Olive oil is mostly mono-unsaturated
fat, the least bad fat there is. Generally speaking, saturated fats
increase your risk of heart disease and stroke, while poly-unsaturated
fats increase your risk of cancer of the digestive tract(+).
Mono-unsaturated fats seem to avoid both these problems. Not
surprising, as we probably evolved eating olives, peanuts, and other
mono-unsaturated fats. Canola oil has an even better ratio, but it
doesn't taste as good.
Health-wise, your best option is Weight Watchers Buttery Spray or Pam
Butter Flavor. They are practically fat-free. But neither of those
carries the convincing _texture_ of real butter or a tasty oil.
My overall recommendation: use the sprays for cooking or to make
something like cinnamon toast. For those situations where you want
_real_ fat, use a teaspoon or two of Smart Beat fat-free or low-fat,
or olive oil if you don't like the taste of Smart Beat.
(*) dealing rather summarily with another debate on this subject.
(+) The original saturated fat studies found that people who ate lots
of poly-unsaturated fats and little saturated fats had a much lower
rate of heart attacks. But a follow-up study showed that they had
about the same death rate (or, more accurately, life expectancy). So
the researchers checked into what was happening to them. They were
dying of cancer. Not much of an improvement.
--
Finger bg...@nyx10.nyx.net for public key
Donna
Any man-made butter substitute is not healthy.
:)
Don Klipstein
>
> (Hint: if it's solid at room temperature, it's saturated.)
Or just as bad or worse, has trans fat. That's a bad kind of
unsaturated fat that comes from partial hydrogenation of polyunsaturated
fats.
>If you really want something healthy, try straight liquid olive oil -
>in moderate quantities, please. Olive oil is mostly mono-unsaturated
>fat, the least bad fat there is. Generally speaking, saturated fats
>increase your risk of heart disease and stroke, while poly-unsaturated
>fats increase your risk of cancer of the digestive tract(+).
>Mono-unsaturated fats seem to avoid both these problems. Not
>surprising, as we probably evolved eating olives, peanuts, and other
>mono-unsaturated fats. Canola oil has an even better ratio, but it
>doesn't taste as good.
Canola oil has mostly polyunsaturated fat. And the way I heard it, mono
(more specifically cis-monounsaturated) actually increases "good
cholesterol" while polyunsaturated does not have much direct effect on
cholesterol at all.
(All calories will in a more indirect way increase cholesterol and
triglycerides, and all fats will more directly increase triglycerides. So
consume even olive oil in moderation!)
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Steve Harris
>In article <61lw9.377$982.9...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
>http://nutritionsoftware.org <nsedit...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Also one that has similar or good taste. Is this too much to ask from
>>non-butter?
>
>Butter tastes as good as it does because it *is* butter. Nothing else
>is going to taste the same, whether salted or unsalted(*). If you
>are milk-intolerant, try Hollywood margerine. Smart Beat isn't bad,
>but it's not a solid. (Hint: if it's solid at room temperature, it's
>saturated.)
COMMENT: Used to be true, but now has a few exceptions, due to the trick of
using solidified whipped milk proteins to get you solids with an oily
mouth-feel, but without the fat, ala non-fat cream cheese. Check the label.
> "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter" is pretty convincing,
>but it's made from buttermilk and contains significant amounts of
>lactose, milk proteins, and butterfat.
There is a Lite version of this with a lot less sat fat. There are trans-fat
free tub margarines on the market now: notably Promise, Promise Buttery
Light, Smart Balance, Brummel & Brown Spread, and Fleischmann's Light
Margarine. AFAIK, they all use the whipped protein trick, and most of them
have very little butter fat. Butter fat's not mercury or lead, you know. If
you can use some spread which has 5% butter fat and no trans-fat in it, it's
hardly going to make you turn toes-up.
>(+) The original saturated fat studies found that people who ate lots
>of poly-unsaturated fats and little saturated fats had a much lower
>rate of heart attacks. But a follow-up study showed that they had
>about the same death rate (or, more accurately, life expectancy). So
>the researchers checked into what was happening to them. They were
>dying of cancer. Not much of an improvement.
That's certainly what happens if you try to lower cholesterol by simply
adding polyunsaturated fat to an already rich diet, ala the VA study. If you
want to be healthy, total fat has got to go way down from the typical
American diet, and mono fraction of what fat there is, has got to go up. If
you need some fat to "stick to your ribs," then make it *good* fat. The
easiest way to do this is to simply add olives, fancy nuts and nut butters,
and fish (and while we're at it, some salt) to a diet which is otherwise
more-or-less Pritikin/Ornish. Choice of oils would be olive, unhydrogenated
canola, almond, and avocado. Proteinoid science fiction foods like non-fat
cream cheese and the new no-trans margarines, are a big help in making all
this more palatable. And yes, the Butter Buds plus nut-oil trick works, too.
--
I welcome email from any being clever enough to fix my address. It's open
book. A prize to the first spambot that passes my Turing test.
Gym Bob
"Sandy" <nu...@null.null> wrote in message
news:sdkesu8qgihamejpd...@4ax.com...
sky-hi
assumptions, not facts. Read on...
On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 18:06:12 -0500, bicker
<sci.med....@brianandrobbie.com.1NVAL1D> wrote:
>On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 21:32:10 GMT, sky-hi <sky...@sky-hi.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 06:00:48 -0500, bicker
>> <sci.med....@brianandrobbie.com.1NVAL1D> wrote:
>> >On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 00:36:05 GMT, pat...@notlocalnet.com (Patricia
>> >Martin Steward) wrote:
>> >> The same companies make unsalted butter and salted butter, presumably
>> >> at about the same time.
"presumably" means you are guessing.
>> What would make you think unsalted was
>> >> fresher?
>> >In reality, freshness is simply "more critical" with unsalted butter
>> >than with salted. The salt acts to prevent the butter from spoiling,
>> >so if both butters are the same age (which is as likely as not)
It's not a matter of likelyhood, it's one or the other and you don't
have the "facts".
>, then
>> >technically the salted butter will be "fresher."
Technically speaking, you don't know what you are talking about. You
are just babbling. Once again, where are your so-called facts?
>> I'm speaking from my own experience. You are hypothecating.
>
>Actually, I'm not. I'm simply stating facts,
Which of your assumptions qualify as facts?
>instead of what you
>indicated you were stating: your opinion.
Actually, I was stating my experience, not my opinion.
> (The words "In reality"
>should have given it away.)
You don't seem to be able to discern the difference between reality
and your ruminations.
Your name (bicker - argue about petty and trivial
matters) seems to describe your attitude quite well. Ciao.
Gym Bob
"bicker" <sci.med....@brianandrobbie.com.1NVAL1D> wrote in message
news:3dcaa74b...@news7.beaconwoods.org...
Gym Bob
somewhere?
"Donna" <dts...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:98e6320a.021...@posting.google.com...
sky-hi
<dku...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
>What is it in butter that would actually spoil? I assume the saturated fat
>would keep for quite a long time. Is it the milk solids? Would this not be a
>factor with ghee (clarified butter)?
Yes. Ghee is one step beyond clarified butter. In ghee, all the water
is boiled off and only the clear oil is retained. Furthermore, if ghee
is made correctly, it is briefly heated to 240 degrees after the water
is gone. Ghee can be kept for decades without refrigeration.
Shelley Walsh
Harris at sbha...@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com wrote on 6/11/2002 3:06 am:
> COMMENT: Used to be true, but now has a few exceptions, due to the trick of
> using solidified whipped milk proteins to get you solids with an oily
> mouth-feel, but without the fat, ala non-fat cream cheese. Check the label.
This reminded me of another alternative to try if you want something totally
fat free, which I think tastes very good on bread, although not really like
butter. Try Quark. It is a soft cheese spread sort of similar to cream
cheese, but very simple in its ingredients list, only one, fermented skim
milk, from Alpen cows they say. It is quite popular in Germany, available
most places in Europe, from what I remember no quite so available in the US,
but I think you can find it in specialty stores. The reason this post
reminded me of it is that while I wouldn't say that it has an oily mouth
feel, it does have a rich creamy sort of mouth feel, and works quite well as
a dessert topping, to my taste equally good if not better than whipped
cream. It makes a great alternative even to cake frosting all on its own for
a heavier cake like a carrot cake. One disadvantage, though, is that it
spoils quite quickly, so watch the "use by" date, but it comes in small
amounts, so that's not a big problem.
--
Shelley Walsh
shelley...@ntlworld.com
http://homepage.mac.com/shelleywalsh
bicker
> Health-wise, your best option is Weight Watchers Buttery Spray or Pam
> Butter Flavor.
As far as I can tell, Pam Spray is 100% fat.
--
¤bicker¤ 263/158
alt.supp...@brianandrobbie.com BP: 130/80 -> 100/60
bicker
> where would they leave the surplus?
Say "cheese."
bicker
The fats go rancid. Salt retards that spoilage.
bicker
> You pay lip service to reality, but your message is full of
> assumptions, not facts. Read on...
Not at all. When I say "facts" I mean facts. Just because you don't
like them doesn't make them any less so.
> On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 18:06:12 -0500, bicker
> <sci.med....@brianandrobbie.com.1NVAL1D> wrote:
> >On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 21:32:10 GMT, sky-hi <sky...@sky-hi.com> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 06:00:48 -0500, bicker
> >> <sci.med....@brianandrobbie.com.1NVAL1D> wrote:
> >> >On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 00:36:05 GMT, pat...@notlocalnet.com (Patricia
> >> >Martin Steward) wrote:
> >> >> The same companies make unsalted butter and salted butter, presumably
> >> >> at about the same time.
> "presumably" means you are guessing.
That's not me, you dolt. Patricia said that. Get your attributions
straight.
> >> What would make you think unsalted was
> >> >> fresher?
> >> >In reality, freshness is simply "more critical" with unsalted butter
> >> >than with salted. The salt acts to prevent the butter from spoiling,
> >> >so if both butters are the same age (which is as likely as not)
> It's not a matter of likelyhood, it's one or the other and you don't
> have the "facts".
You're wrong (and I know you just hate that). I do have the facts.
Salted butter WILL always take longer to spoil. Always. Fact. Get
over it.
> >, then
> >> >technically the salted butter will be "fresher."
> Technically speaking, you don't know what you are talking about. You
> are just babbling. Once again, where are your so-called facts?
It's simple food science. Read a book (or have someone read one for
you).
> >> I'm speaking from my own experience. You are hypothecating.
> >Actually, I'm not. I'm simply stating facts,
> Which of your assumptions qualify as facts?
I haven't made any assumptions up until now: I assume you're either an
idiot or a troll.
Ophelia
"Shelley Walsh" <shelley...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:B9EE8D8D.88EA%shelley...@ntlworld.com...
Thank you for your post Shelley:) Can you tell me if quark freezes ok?
Shelley Walsh
To be honest, I haven't the slightest idea. I've never tried it. When we get
it, we use it for a variety of things, but still sometimes we have to throw
some out. Sometimes we use it to stick together sandwiches. It makes a good
fruit topping. There are some recipes around that use it, even a low fat
cheese cake, but I have never tried them. It doesn't spoil that quickly. I
think it last a couple weeks, but it certainly doesn't last anywhere near as
long as butter. I've never thought about freezing it. I suppose it would be
sort of like freezing yogurt, which I guess can be done, since there is
frozen yogurt, but I would have no idea how it would thaw. Anybody here ever
tried freezing quark?
William Brink
"http://nutritionsoftware.org" <nsedit...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Also one that has similar or good taste. Is this too much to ask from
> non-butter?
Then why not eat butter? Olive oil can work, but it does not taste like
butter. The fake butters are worse for you than the real thing most of
the time.
> Thanks for your suggestions.
>
> --
> Editor, Internet's Convenient and Unbiased Directory of Nutrition Software
> http://nutritionsoftware.org
>
>
>
--
Will Brink
Ophelia
"Shelley Walsh" <She...@shells.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:B9F04055.8B0C%She...@shells.demon.co.uk...
Thank you Shelley.. don't worry... my daughter lives in Germany and I can
ask her. Just thought you might know
warm regards:)
Ophelia
William Brink
bicker <alt.supp...@brianandrobbie.com.1NVAL1D> wrote:
> On 5 Nov 2002 17:31:54 -0700, bg...@nyx.net (Barry Gold) wrote:
> > Health-wise, your best option is Weight Watchers Buttery Spray or Pam
> > Butter Flavor.
>
> As far as I can tell, Pam Spray is 100% fat.
Which you then go onto turn toxic when you heat it in the pan.
liquid diet newbie
> Also one that has similar or good taste. Is this too much to ask from
> non-butter?
depending on what youre cooking, extra virgin olive oil is great. i
use it as a butter substitute for all my pan cooking (chicken, beef,
stir fry, veggies, etc)
John R Weiss
virgin, at a much lower price. The heavier taste of the extra virgin is pretty
much destroyed by oxidation in the heat of a sauté or frying pan. Also, olive
oil is not very suitable for deep frying because it smokes much more than corn,
peanut, or canola oil.
OTOH, extra virgin is MUCH tastier for salads, on bread, etc.
------------------
John Weiss
Seattle, WA
Remove NOSPAM from reply address
"liquid diet newbie" <chitownp...@yahoo.com> wrote...
Matti Narkia
<rn2tsuo3v5nfkcuil...@4ax.com> Alan Moorman <amoo...@visi.com>
wrote:
>
>>Actually, for high-heat cooking, regular olive oil is just as good as extra
>>virgin, at a much lower price. The heavier taste of the extra virgin is pretty
>>much destroyed by oxidation in the heat of a sauté or frying pan. Also, olive
>>oil is not very suitable for deep frying because it smokes much more than corn,
>>peanut, or canola oil.
>>
>"vegetable" oil is best, since it will smoke less at high temps.
>I think this is the sorta generic stuff you buy at the super
>market.
>
I wouldn't use any generic vegetable oil without knowing it's fatty acid
profile. High smoke point is good, because it's the indication of the oil's
heat tolerance. Avoid oils with high omega-6 content for obvious reasons and
oils with a fair amount of omega-3 in them, because omega-3 in vegetable oils
is alpha-linolenic acid which can develop rather toxic, even mutagenic and
carcinogenic substances in higher temperatures. This leaves saturated fats and
mostly monounsaturated oils such as olive oil, almond oil and avocado oil. Of
these almond and avocado oil tolerate heat much better than olive oil.
--
Matti Narkia