Best hand-soap for killing raw-meat bacteria?
George Nielson
and pork but that obviously has its disadvantages. So off to the
store to pickup groceries I went, and perused the handsoap section,
but a huge number of choices and claims on their products.
Which hand soap can I keep in the kitchen for washing up that will
eliminate any bacteria from handling raw meat? Any type will do, or
does it need to be a specific one?
K3
"George Nielson" <geo...@cook.com> wrote in message
news:BD168E5B9AD2FB2C.5CC371ED...@lp.airnews.net...
Forget about bar soaps in the kitchen... "Taboo" ... "No Go"... "Just Say
No"... "Not me not now"... Pick up the cheapest, simplest ~liquid~ hand soap
for washing your hands and use a spray-bottle of simple bleach & water for
killing the bacteria on your countertops. Use your dishwasher (or a tiny
bit of bleach along with your favorite soap in your kitchen sink) to
sanitize your cooking utensils. If you wash your hands properly (similar
to the way a surgeon washes his/her hands) then you won't have much to worry
about. This whole "Anti-Bacterial" marketing scheme that's been going on
for several years is a bad thing... we're killing more of the "good" germs
than the "bad" germs.
--
Kendall F. Stratton III (K3)
Fort Fairfield, Maine USA
k...@maine.rr.com
http://home.maine.rr.com/k3
Paul M. Cook┊
have been handling meat and nobody has dropped dead yet from any bacterial
contamination. Humans existed and thrived for eons without the benefit of
anti-bacterial soap. The best way to clean up is with just good old plain
soap and water. Wooden surfaces are perhaps the only exception but they
should not be exposed to raw meat in the first place. The anti-bacterial
products are just another marketing gimmick and have been proven to cause
more harm than good. For example I was reading that some people's
obsession with disinfecting everything in their homes has led to increases
in children with severe immune system disorders. The logic being that their
immune systems are not exposed to the very organisms that they need to be to
develop a stronger immune system. Then there is the problem with so-called
"super bugs," namely strains of bacteria resistant to antibiotics.
So wash up with plain old dish soap and water and you'll be just fine.
Paul
"George Nielson" <geo...@cook.com> wrote in message
news:BD168E5B9AD2FB2C.5CC371ED...@lp.airnews.net...
notbob
> Forget about bar soaps in the kitchen... "Taboo" ... "No Go"... "Just Say
> No"... "Not me not now"... Pick up the cheapest, simplest ~liquid~ hand soap
> for washing your hands and use a spray-bottle of simple bleach & water for
> killing the bacteria on your countertops. Use your dishwasher (or a tiny
> bit of bleach along with your favorite soap in your kitchen sink) to
> sanitize your cooking utensils. If you wash your hands properly (similar
> to the way a surgeon washes his/her hands) then you won't have much to worry
> about. This whole "Anti-Bacterial" marketing scheme that's been going on
> for several years is a bad thing... we're killing more of the "good" germs
> than the "bad" germs.
Dr. Dean Edell says:
"You may not know this, but most soap you buy contains antibacterial
agents such as triclosan that can actually contribute to the spread of
super germs.
What happens is that most people use a low level of the soaps and this
gives certain bacteria the ability to survive, build resistance to the
triclosan or other agents such as triclocarban, and flourish.
Researchers at Beth Israel Deaconness Medical Center in Boston
analyzed data on national and regional hand soap brands at 23 stores
and Internet sites and found that about a fourth of all bar soaps
contain
antibacterial agents.
With liquid soaps, this figure zooms to 75 percent for both national and
regional brands, according to a report presented at a meeting of the
Infectious Diseases Society of America.
This trend toward antibacterial soaps is a worrisome thing because
we don't really need such powerful germ-fighters for washing our
hands. It's the actual hand-washing that removes bacteria and there's
no evidence that antibacterial soaps can prevent infections in the
household.
I'd suggest reading the labels on soaps and avoiding the antibacterial
products because germs can develop multidrug resistance from
widespread use of these cleaners."
<http://www.healthcentral.com/drdean/deanfulltexttopics.cfm?id=40949>
A local news program contracted with a local lab and did a comparison
between antibacterial and regular hand soaps and measured the detectable
bacteria after each. Surprisingly, Dove hand soap came out the winner.
They attributed it to the increased foaming and sudsing ability of Dove
soap in our hard water.
nb
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
st...@temple.edu
>
> Which hand soap can I keep in the kitchen for washing up that will
> eliminate any bacteria from handling raw meat? Any type will do, or
> does it need to be a specific one?
I use whatever's on sale. Been doing it that way for more years than
I can remember. Ditto for friends, family, etc. I think any hand soap
will be fine as long as you wash your hands thoroughly.
K3
"Paul M. Cook┊" <pmBERMUDA_...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:ihUD7.11$dM4....@paloalto-snr2.gtei.net...
Hi Paul,
You said it much better than I could... disinfectants, antibacterial soaps,
super clean everything... My mother was one of those "Super Clean Freaks" --
Lysol sprayed on the beds everyday, kill this, kill that!!! I think that's
why my twin sister and I were both diagnosed with a severe immune system
disorder -- Systemic Lupus -- an "overpowered immune system". I've
suffered for several years with chronic sinusitus 'til I cut-back on the
cleaning (like "Mom" taught me). Sorry to cry in your beer, but too bad
"Kimmy" isn't here with me to learn how it's better not to be so clean.
I'm leaving 'cause I'm thinking about Kimmy
(http://home.maine.rr.com/k3/dedication.htm). Ya'all wanna keep fighting
Mother Nature and killing all of the good bacteria & germs -- then to each
his own -- just remember that I've warned you!
Arri London
Any liquid handsoap will do just fine. The point is to
remove bacteria from the skin and rinse them away. It is the
washing technique that counts far more than which soap. Wash
your hands vigorously (including the wrists) for a minimum
of 30 secs and rinse thoroughly.
Keep in mind that the pump top needs to be washed off too.
K3
news:9rp4gu$upnq5$1...@ID-89669.news.dfncis.de...
Damn!!! I ain't ever seen a thread die so soon! But I'm okay... I go
throu this every so often when I think of "Kimmy" -- I was playing a few of
her LP's (that she left to me) today while doing a little-bit of house
keeping and I just get kind of sad when I listen to them.
Thanks for understanding! :-)
PENMART01
>A quick look at history should show that for countless thousands of years we
>have been handling meat and nobody has dropped dead yet from any bacterial
>contamination. Humans existed and thrived for eons without the benefit of
>anti-bacterial soap. The best way to clean up is with just good old plain
>soap and water. Wooden surfaces are perhaps the only exception but they
>should not be exposed to raw meat in the first place. The anti-bacterial
>products are just another marketing gimmick and have been proven to cause
>more harm than good. For example I was reading that some people's
>obsession with disinfecting everything in their homes has led to increases
>in children with severe immune system disorders. The logic being that their
>immune systems are not exposed to the very organisms that they need to be to
>develop a stronger immune system. Then there is the problem with so-called
>"super bugs," namely strains of bacteria resistant to antibiotics.
>
>So wash up with plain old dish soap and water and you'll be just fine.
>
>Paul
Nonsense. A quick look at history will show that not too many years ago common
personal cleansers were a lot more potent than their more modern counterparts.
. . you can always still use Octagon, ya know... it's still readily available.
Today's cleansers are formulated more for maintaining skin softness than for
their antiseptic value. Specially formulated Anti Bacterial/Fungal soaps are a
good thing. They do more than simply emulsify oils, they not only kill
existing bacteria, but with regular use they also maintain a hostile
environment for future bacteria while still being mild so as not to wreak havoc
with your skin... after all, dried cracked skin is far easier for bacteria to
invade You can of course always ask the doctor performing your next surgery to
scrub up with a bar of Dove. You're probably one of those who doesn't believe
in toothpaste either, Gums! I just know you don't use deodorant, what for if
you don't bathe... all that darn water, eawwwwww!
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Geoff Phillips
has tested the amount of bacteria removed from the hands by toilet soap as
opposed to anti-bacterial soap. The difference is negligible. If hands are
washed vigourously under running water, nearly all bacteria is removed.
Drying on towels (paper/cloth) removes a large percentage of what is left
compared to air drying which doesn't remove the water, it concentrates it.
You haven't said whether you are worried about transferring the bacteria to
yourself or to other food products which is another story altogether.
Salmonella (in the cavity of every chicken) is easy to kill but is
ubiquitous.
For reassurance, look at the butchers, they handle raw meat and raw money
without washing.
Bacteria on meat products is usually on the surface and is klilled in the
cooking process, but if that bacteria is transferred to cooked meat in the
fridge or bench top: tummy wogs.
Aussie G
PENMART01
>Our major consumer magazine has done several tests concerning bar soap and
>has tested the amount of bacteria removed from the hands by toilet soap as
>opposed to anti-bacterial soap. The difference is negligible. If hands are
>washed vigourously under running water, nearly all bacteria is removed.
More often than not hands are not washed "vigorously", nor for a long enough
period or with hot enough water, therefore antibacteriostats compensate for
folk's lack of time, effort and resources. And when you say "Our" who are
speaking of? Do you not realize that much of the world does not have ready
access to bacteria free water for drinking... let alone washing. The major
soap manufacturers (Colgate, P&G, etal.) have been marketing antibacterial
cleansers of all types to third world counties since long before they've been
marketed in the US. These products have been tested over many years, in real
life situations (not some fercocktah biased magazine's laboratory). These
products have been proven way beyond any doubt whatsoever to go a long way
towards reducing incidences of many deseases, especially water borne
diseases... certainly the benefits received way more than compensate for their
few negative effects, which in the main are due to possible allergic skin
reactions, which would likely have occured regardless from over indulgence in
vigorous washing.
Christopher Green
"Elbow grease" is the best antibacterial agent known to mankind. This
is something I always did a lab on when I taught bacteriology. The
important thing is to wash vigorously with soap and water. The
difference between ordinary soap, antibacterial soap, bleach, Lysol,
etc. is very small compared to the difference between cursory and
vigorous washing.
Of course, this doesn't go much farther than household food handling.
Medical work and critical laboratory cleaning have more stringent
requirements.
--
Chris Green
K3
"Christopher Green" <cj.g...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:c31fa7b1.01103...@posting.google.com...
... and IMHO, *all* food-service workers should be either "trained
vigorously" and/or "certified" in food handling... I can't tell you how many
times I've seen a Mickey-D's "Burger Chef" wipe his nose before wrapping my
burger -- "See Ya'all", I said -- only to be stopping by "Booger King" for
one hell-a-va whopping Booger (oops, I meant Burger!). I've gone home hungry
many times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I really wish that their were either #1-stricter guidlines for
foodservice -or #2- more knowlegeable, dedicated food-service personnel.
If I were President, I would mandate that *EVERY* food service worker take
the 4-week Food Service Sanitation Course (with a final exam score of no
lower than 100%) and be *CERTIFIED* in Food Handling.
Possible? Yes! Realistic? No! Oh Well!
Betsy
Here's link to an eye-opening article. I spray my countertops and
other areas with this. Note - before you flame me back, this is not
an ad for a commercial product, but a link to a respected science
magazine's site, and nothing is for sale. In fact, this is totally
cheap - just read it.
http://sciencenews.org/sn_arch/9_28_96/food.htm
betsy
Sheryl Rosen
w_b...@hotmail.com (Betsy) wrote:
> http://sciencenews.org/sn_arch/9_28_96/food.htm
This article advocates spraying vegetables with hydrogen peroxide from
the drug store, followed by vinegar.
It doesn't say anyting about rinsing off the two antiseptics. I would
worry about ingesting quantities of peroxide. I mean, you don't use a
lot per vegetable....but it's got to build up if you have a big salad.
I wonder? Would it work as well if you rinsed the vegetables with water
after the 2-step disinfecting process????
--
Sheryl
--
Beware the toes you step on today.
They may be attached to the ass you
have to kiss tomorrow.
Mickey Zalusky
> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Date: 31 Oct 2001 19:10:29 GMT
> Subject: Re: Best hand-soap for killing raw-meat bacteria?
>
> More often than not hands are not washed "vigorously", nor for a long enough
> period or with hot enough water, therefore antibacteriostats compensate for
> folk's lack of time, effort and resources.
A recommendation I've heard is to wash your hands as long as it takes you to
sing the "Happy Birthday" song.
Mickey
==========
Archon
> about. This whole "Anti-Bacterial" marketing scheme that's been going on
> for several years is a bad thing... we're killing more of the "good" germs
> than the "bad" germs.
Here they say that the anti-bacterial stuff is only a commercial trick,
and that there is no such thing. Perhaps you have newer products that
actually contains something against bacteria.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Nielsen
Computer Vision and Graphics at Aalborg University
Project: http://www.vrmedialab.dk/~archon
Music: http://mp3.com/archon2
Website: http://www.archonia.dk
Cindy hamilton
I use dishwashing liquid. If it gets my dishes clean, it should be able
to get my hands clean.
Of course I scrub vigorously and use the hottest water my hands can stand.
For convenience, I have a pump dispenser on the kitchen counter, which I
refill as needed.
I prefer Ivory unscented, but that's just an esthetic decision.
Cindy Hamilton
PENMART01
>Here they say that the anti-bacterial stuff is only a commercial trick,
>and that there is no such thing.
Go here: http://www.quantexlabs.com/triclosan.htm
PENMART01
>George Nielson wrote:
>> Normally I use barsoap to clean up after handling raw meat, chicken
>> and pork but that obviously has its disadvantages. So off to the
>> store to pickup groceries I went, and perused the handsoap section,
>> but a huge number of choices and claims on their products.
>>
>> Which hand soap can I keep in the kitchen for washing up that will
>> eliminate any bacteria from handling raw meat? Any type will do, or
>> does it need to be a specific one?
>
>I use dishwashing liquid. If it gets my dishes clean, it should be able
>to get my hands clean.
Most dishwashing liquids are detergents, not soaps... dertergents are far more
potent emulsifyers.... intended for greasy dishes, not intended for skin
contact... regardless what Madge advocates. Even dishwashing soaps (they are
far mort powerful than body soaps) shouldn't make contact with skin
>Of course I scrub vigorously and use the hottest water my hands can stand.
When using a dishwashing detergent (or soap) wear rubber gloves (even if only
for a moment, a moment is all that's nescessary to extract skin's natural
protectorants), otherwise your skin will become more damaged than from the
bacteriostat contained therein... btw, did I mention that dishwashing
detergents aren't meant as skin cleansers, so whether they contain
antibacteriostats is a *<U>Non-Issue</U>*.
WEAR RUBBER GLOVES.
Also, DO NOT USE DISHWASHING DETERGENTS WITH CHLORINE BLEACH. Look on the
product label, you'll see the same warning.
Michael Edelman
> > Which hand soap can I keep in the kitchen for washing up that will
> > eliminate any bacteria from handling raw meat? Any type will do, or
> > does it need to be a specific one?
No soap you use regularly will kill bacteria, but a good soap will remove the
more motile bacteria form your skin.
You can't kill or remove it all, nor would it be good if you could. We need a
certain amount to aid in digestion and to stimulate our immune system.
What you want to tdo is remove the most dangerous bacteria, which generally
means salmonella on factory chicken. Use a smooth synthetic cutting board (I
like HDPE, that waxy-feeling white plastic), or a wooden one you reserve only
for meat. After use, rinse boards and rub wooden ones down with salt.
--
-----------------------------------
Michael Edelman m...@spamcop.net
http://www.foldingkayaks.org
http://www.findascope.com
Betsy
> In article <d963b646.01103...@posting.google.com>,
> w_b...@hotmail.com (Betsy) wrote:
>
> > http://sciencenews.org/sn_arch/9_28_96/food.htm
>
> This article advocates spraying vegetables with hydrogen peroxide from
> the drug store, followed by vinegar.
>
> It doesn't say anyting about rinsing off the two antiseptics. I would
> worry about ingesting quantities of peroxide. I mean, you don't use a
> lot per vegetable....but it's got to build up if you have a big salad.
>
> I wonder? Would it work as well if you rinsed the vegetables with water
> after the 2-step disinfecting process????
>
> --
> Sheryl
Interesting observation. I re-read the article in dis-belief. I
can't imagine not rinsing, so I always do. But you're right, it
doesn't mention it. Of course, this goes to show you that it is
written by scientists, not cooks. I think a cook would mention it one
way or the other. In reality, I rarely use this spray system on
actual food. But I do spray my counters when I've been working on raw
meat and gotten juice around, and we keep the spray bottles int he
kitchen. I microwave my kitchen sponge occasionally, and have also
put a cutting board with a wet paper towel on top into the microwave.
But then, I eat stuff with raw eggs, so I'm not extremely careful
either.
Maybe I read about this elsewhere where they said it did not have to
"sit" for long at all to work. Anyway, sounds like a terrible start
to sald dressing for sure.
betsy
Archon
PENMART01 wrote:
>
> Archon <arc...@gvdnet.dk> writes:
>
> >Here they say that the anti-bacterial stuff is only a commercial trick,
> >and that there is no such thing.
>
> Go here: http://www.quantexlabs.com/triclosan.htm
It's the Danish word they use on the bottles "anti-bakteriel" that is
non-existent in the Danish vocabolary. That and the fact that those
brands tested showed no documented effect on bacteria.
PENMART01
>> Archon <arc...@gvdnet.dk> writes:
>>
>> >Here they say that the anti-bacterial stuff is only a commercial trick,
>> >and that there is no such thing.
>>
>> Go here: http://www.quantexlabs.com/triclosan.htm
>
>It's the Danish word they use on the bottles "anti-bakteriel" that is
>non-existent in the Danish vocabolary.
Ahahahahaha. . . let me get this straight, the word is written in Danish on a
Danish product and you say the word does not exist. . . Ahahahahahaha. . .
Archon
> Ahahahahaha. . . let me get this straight, the word is written in Danish on a
> Danish product and you say the word does not exist. . . Ahahahahahaha. . .
Exactly, it's invented by the commercial industry, to cheat the
customers into thinking that it's a highly advanced soap they buy. The
chemistry business who tested those products also laughed their asses
off when they saw it.
Archon
Archon wrote:
>
> > Ahahahahaha. . . let me get this straight, the word is written in Danish on a
> > Danish product and you say the word does not exist. . . Ahahahahahaha. . .
>
> Exactly, it's invented by the commercial industry, to cheat the
> customers into thinking that it's a highly advanced soap they buy. The
> chemistry business who tested those products also laughed their asses
> off when they saw it.
And it is actually now illegal in DK to advertise for soap as being
"anti-bacterial" because it is misleading as they actually killed equal
or LESS bacteria than ordinary soap.
They also found that the agents natriumhypoclorite, benzalconium and
triclosan are environmental hazards because they don't get decomposed in
the cleaning facilities, create resistent germs, and give consumers bad
hygiene behaviours. Triclosan even pollutes the breast milk in women.
Cindy hamilton
I've been handwashing my dishes for 30 years without rubber gloves, and
my hands haven't fallen off yet. I don't think I'm going to start worrying
about it now.
Cindy Hamilton (investigating why my name isn't capitalized in the header)
PENMART01
>I've been handwashing my dishes for 30 years without rubber gloves, and
>my hands haven't fallen off yet. I don't think I'm going to start worrying
>about it now.
Perhaps it's that creme your hubby is nice enough to give you. ;)
Cindy hamilton
> angelica...@hotmail.com (Cindy hamilton) writes:
>
> >I've been handwashing my dishes for 30 years without rubber gloves, and
> >my hands haven't fallen off yet. I don't think I'm going to start worrying
> >about it now.
>
> Perhaps it's that creme your hubby is nice enough to give you. ;)
Perhaps that's also why the complexion on my face is so soft.
Really, you can't get to me that way.
Cindy Hamilton
JLove98905
population at large causes bacterial resistance to antibiotics. The bacteria
mutate over time to survive various antibacterial treatments- rendering them
stronger against traditional medicines. Ask a doctor what the best method is
for removing bacteria from your hands- he or she will likely tell you that it
is the act of prolonged soaping and lathering which removes the bacteria. As a
kid I was always taught that you should sing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star while
you suds to ensure adequate soaping time. All that being said, I use a couple
of methods to sanitize things like wash boards- there's the traditional
scrubbing, plus treatment with microwaving (this works great on sponges, I
learned).
-Jen
If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled?
Emc
"JLove98905" <jlove...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011103172839...@mb-mv.aol.com...
Interested in what you say about sanitizing wash boards. I scrub mine,
adding bleach as an extra precaution, but what do you mean treatment with
microwaving? You can't put a chopping board into the microwave.....or can
you???? More info, please!
Eve
PENMART01
<e...@NOSPAM.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>Interested in what you say about sanitizing wash boards. I scrub mine,
>adding bleach as an extra precaution, but what do you mean treatment with
>microwaving? You can't put a chopping board into the microwave.....or can
>you???? More info, please!
Certainly you can place a cutting board into microwave oven, if it will fit.
But why, microwaving a cutting board wont do a blessed thing towards sanitizing
it, not unless you place it into a plastic bag first, one containing about a
cup of water... and even then most bacteria will survive, they'd need to be
autoclaved... cooked under pressure to achieve higher temperatures than mere
boiling and for a specified time, perhaps for as much as half an hour.
Microwaving relatively dry wood (or most plastics) will damage the material
before it ever gets hot enough to kill most bacteria. Anyone listening to the
news lately will have been informed by medical specialists that microwaving
mail will do nothing towards killing anthrax bacteria... the paper will char
first, making it unreadable.
Emc
"PENMART01" <penm...@aol.como> wrote in message
news:20011104082927...@nso-fi.aol.com...
> Certainly you can place a cutting board into microwave oven, if it will
fit.
> But why, microwaving a cutting board wont do a blessed thing towards
sanitizing
> it, not unless you place it into a plastic bag first, one containing about
a
> cup of water... and even then most bacteria will survive, they'd need to
be
> autoclaved... cooked under pressure to achieve higher temperatures than
mere
> boiling and for a specified time, perhaps for as much as half an hour.
> Microwaving relatively dry wood (or most plastics) will damage the
material
> before it ever gets hot enough to kill most bacteria. Anyone listening to
the
> news lately will have been informed by medical specialists that
microwaving
> mail will do nothing towards killing anthrax bacteria... the paper will
char
> first, making it unreadable.
So I'm o.k. with the scrubbing and bleaching?
Eve
PENMART01
<e...@NOSPAM.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>So I'm o.k. with the scrubbing and bleaching?
Yes.
JLove98905
so I did forget to mention the water part. My wooden board works well in the
microwave. Another way to go could be UV- if you have a plant light, for
instance. Just be careful of yourself if you do this- UV causes DNA damage. At
any rate, I guess the point was that you don't need antibacterial soap.
Archon
> you suds to ensure adequate soaping time. All that being said, I use a couple
> of methods to sanitize things like wash boards- there's the traditional
> scrubbing, plus treatment with microwaving (this works great on sponges, I
> learned).
Plus it's better to evolve your body's own resistence towards bacteria
by exposing the body to the bacteria instead of sterilizing it. Too much
fixation on personal hygeine/safety makes the human body weak.
Archon
> instance. Just be careful of yourself if you do this- UV causes DNA damage. At
> any rate, I guess the point was that you don't need antibacterial soap.
NOt only "don't need" but that it's harmful to use it.