What to buy organic (and what not)

[Bruce]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4872748/The-20-organic-foods-worth-splashing-on.html

("Crops in the UK may be treated with up to 320 different types of
pesticide")

[Ophelia]

"Bruce" wrote in message news:eugerctnk633asjji...@4ax.com...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4872748/The-20-organic-foods-worth-splashing-on.html

("Crops in the UK may be treated with up to 320 different types of
pesticide")

==

They are extolling the virtues of organic produce which has highest level of
pesticide residue???

Does that make sense to you?

Maybe I am missing something:(

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

[Bruce]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:06:49 +0100, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

No, they're saying that non-organic strawberries, for instance, have
lots of pesticides. And non-organic beets, for instance, have less
pesticides. So it's more important to buy your strawberries organic
than your beets.

[Ophelia]

"Bruce" wrote in message news:2k5frclnhpvosun5k...@4ax.com...

==

Ok but I would like to see neither pesticides nor residues in my food but I
guess that is possible in bought stuff!


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

[Bruce]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:56:37 +0100, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>"Bruce" wrote in message news:2k5frclnhpvosun5k...@4ax.com...
>
>On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:06:49 +0100, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>

>>They are extolling the virtues of organic produce which has highest level
>>of
>>pesticide residue???
>>
>>Does that make sense to you?
>>
>>Maybe I am missing something:(
>
>No, they're saying that non-organic strawberries, for instance, have
>lots of pesticides. And non-organic beets, for instance, have less
>pesticides. So it's more important to buy your strawberries organic
>than your beets.
>
>
>==
>
>Ok but I would like to see neither pesticides nor residues in my food but I
>guess that is possible in bought stuff!

Shouldn't organic produce be good then? Unless you don't trust that
label.

[Ophelia]

"Bruce" wrote in message news:iv8frctt7kf7k5ga6...@4ax.com...

==

I hope so! I hadn't seen that thing you posted about the pesticide residue
before.

I do buy organic when I can. I guess I just have to trust it.



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

[Bruce]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:03:01 +0100, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>

I bet the UK has some form of checking in place, so they can't lie
about it.

[Ophelia]

"Bruce" wrote in message news:rhjfrchufnlsd39lc...@4ax.com...

==

I jolly well hope so:)))



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

[penm...@aol.com]

"Ophelia" wrote:
>"Bruce" wrote:
>"Ophelia"wrote:
>>"Bruce" wrote:
>>"Ophelia" wrote:
>>>"Bruce" wrote:

>>>"Ophelia" wrote:
>>>
>>>>They are extolling the virtues of organic produce which has highest level
>>>>of pesticide residue???
>>>>
>>>>Does that make sense to you?
>>>>Maybe I am missing something:(
>>>
>>>No, they're saying that non-organic strawberries, for instance, have
>>>lots of pesticides. And non-organic beets, for instance, have less
>>>pesticides. So it's more important to buy your strawberries organic
>>>than your beets.
>>>==
>>>
>>>Ok but I would like to see neither pesticides nor residues in my food but
>>>I guess that is possible in bought stuff!
>>
>>Shouldn't organic produce be good then? Unless you don't trust that
>>label.
>>==
>>I hope so! I hadn't seen that thing you posted about the pesticide residue
>>before.
>>
>>I do buy organic when I can. I guess I just have to trust it.
>
>I bet the UK has some form of checking in place, so they can't lie
>about it.
>==
>I jolly well hope so:)))

It's very easy to do ones own checking... if there's no insect damage
it's NOT organic. The organic produce displayed in stores is all too
perfect to be organic.... larger speciments too, indicates chemical
fertilizers also.
I've been growing vegetables all my life and have never used any
chemicals... my harvest indicates plenty of insect presence, I simply
pare away those parts, same as I pare away other critter damage.

[U.S. Janet B.]

I don't agree. For some reason you are having a difficult experience
with insects. I don't spray and I don't have marks on my veggies
unless my husband was careless with the string trimming and pitched
some high velocity sand onto low hanging veggies.
Or a squirrel tested something
Or my neighbor's tree with all the dead branches hurled some sticks
into my garden during a wind storm.
My daughter has critter problems (mostly underground critters) and
they leave different marks than insects.
Janet US

[Casa de Masa]

On 9/12/2017 2:32 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 14:06:11 -0400, penm...@aol.com wrote:
>> I've been growing vegetables all my life and have never used any
>> chemicals... my harvest indicates plenty of insect presence, I simply
>> pare away those parts, same as I pare away other critter damage.
>
> I don't agree. For some reason you are having a difficult experience
> with insects.
>

He's just full of shit..as usual.

[Ophelia]

wrote in message news:8h1grc1fiuin99vqj...@4ax.com...

==

I grow various veggies and a lot of fruit, but things like eggs especially,
I always buy organic:))

I don't use chemicals either:)



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

[Bruce]

It also depends on the vegetable. I've had big insect problems with
anything cabbage related, but almost no problems with chillies, broad
beans and zucchini, for instance.

[penm...@aol.com]

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 07:24:38 +1000, Bruce <Br...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

I don't have insect damaage with all veggies but most do have some
damage. I don't use insecticides so I plant extra. And since the
entire planet is now so poluted it's impossible to grow organically
other than in a laboratory environment. Much produce is now grown in
huge greenhouses, that's how organic strawberries are grown. There
truely is no organic farmland, not so long as precipatation and
gravity exists. Matters not I don't use chemicals, most farmers do
and since it rains and there's runoff everyone elses land gets some of
those chems... in most instances the lower lying lands get more chems
than the higher lands. Most of my fertilizer is critter poop, but
critters travel far and wide, no way to know what land their poop
comes from.

[Bruce]

You're confusing organic and sterile.

>Much produce is now grown in
>huge greenhouses, that's how organic strawberries are grown. There
>truely is no organic farmland, not so long as precipatation and
>gravity exists. Matters not I don't use chemicals, most farmers do
>and since it rains and there's runoff everyone elses land gets some of
>those chems... in most instances the lower lying lands get more chems
>than the higher lands. Most of my fertilizer is critter poop, but
>critters travel far and wide, no way to know what land their poop
>comes from.

There's a big difference whether you spray chemicals on your
vegetables or not. Just because you can't reach a theoretical 100%
perfection is no reason to aim for 10%. Why else don't you use
chemicals?

[Julie Bove]

"Bruce" <Br...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:eugerctnk633asjji...@4ax.com...

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4872748/The-20-organic-foods-worth-splashing-on.html
>
> ("Crops in the UK may be treated with up to 320 different types of
> pesticide")

Wow!

[jmcquown]

On 9/12/2017 2:06 PM, penm...@aol.com wrote:
> It's very easy to do ones own checking... if there's no insect damage
> it's NOT organic. The organic produce displayed in stores is all too
> perfect to be organic.... larger speciments too, indicates chemical
> fertilizers also.
> I've been growing vegetables all my life and have never used any
> chemicals... my harvest indicates plenty of insect presence, I simply
> pare away those parts, same as I pare away other critter damage.

I distrust labels that say "organic" for many of the reasons you state.
There's also the fact that everything labelled "organic" tends to cost
twice as much. There's no proof, it's just a label.

Jill

[notbob]

On 2017-09-15, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> I distrust labels that say "organic" for many of the reasons you state.
> There's also the fact that everything labelled "organic" tends to cost
> twice as much. There's no proof, it's just a label.

You distrust a label that sez "organic" even more than a food product
that promises everything!? Like pomegranate juice or that ridiculous
mushroom juice (something-buca?)

Yes, there are scammers, out there. No one has seen more than 100
dairy cows, in a pasture, supposedly supporting more than 2,000 head
of cattle on an "organic" dairy farm, here in CO. Whole foods and
Walmart are simply trying to buy off the govt droids deciding exactly
what qualifies as "organic". Kinda like what constitutes, "clean
water" or "clean air".

OTOH, "organic" does NOT cost twice as much. Like I sed in an earlier
post, Safeway and Kroger are charging $9USD lb fer NON-organic cube
steaks. My organic whole chicken only cost a bit over $4USD lb. Less
than half as much! I rarely pay more than 30% more, fer "organic".
Can I afford it? If I don't buy stupid stuff, like pre-peeled and
quartered apples and 3 oz pkgs of mint.

Was I pissed when George's Killer Organic Bread jumped up to $5.50 per
loaf? Damn straights! Specially when two slices had air holes as big
a my mouth. I hate paying $5.50 fer air! Unfortunately, when a CO
bakery split its depts to better serve their silly "non-gluten"
demanding patrons, their previously non-organic SF sourdough became
more air than bread and I quit buying it. You can do the same, as you
have a choice. Amazing how that works, isn't it!? ;)

nb

[jmcquown]

On 9/15/2017 2:04 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2017-09-15, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I distrust labels that say "organic" for many of the reasons you state.
>> There's also the fact that everything labelled "organic" tends to cost
>> twice as much. There's no proof, it's just a label.
>
> You distrust a label that sez "organic" even more than a food product
> that promises everything!? Like pomegranate juice or that ridiculous
> mushroom juice (something-buca?)
>

Uh... no. Quite a leap you made there. I don't buy pomegranite juice
and never heard of mushroom juice. It's all marketing.

> Yes, there are scammers, out there. No one has seen more than 100
> dairy cows, in a pasture, supposedly supporting more than 2,000 head
> of cattle on an "organic" dairy farm, here in CO. Whole foods and
> Walmart are simply trying to buy off the govt droids deciding exactly
> what qualifies as "organic". Kinda like what constitutes, "clean
> water" or "clean air".
>
> OTOH, "organic" does NOT cost twice as much.

It does at my supermarkets.

> Like I sed in an earlier
> post, Safeway and Kroger are charging $9USD lb fer NON-organic cube
> steaks. My organic whole chicken only cost a bit over $4USD lb. Less
> than half as much! I rarely pay more than 30% more, fer "organic".

I'm happy for you. BTW, were those dried beans "organic"? <wink>

> Can I afford it? If I don't buy stupid stuff, like pre-peeled and
> quartered apples and 3 oz pkgs of mint.
>

I really don't know who buys that stuff. If I can't peel and slice an
apple myself I guess I just won't buy an apple.

> Was I pissed when George's Killer Organic Bread jumped up to $5.50 per
> loaf? Damn straights! Specially when two slices had air holes as big
> a my mouth. I hate paying $5.50 fer air! Unfortunately, when a CO
> bakery split its depts to better serve their silly "non-gluten"
> demanding patrons, their previously non-organic SF sourdough became
> more air than bread and I quit buying it. You can do the same, as you
> have a choice. Amazing how that works, isn't it!? ;)
>
> nb
>

Of course I have a choice. I choose not to buy stuff with an "organic"
label on it. :)

Jill

[penm...@aol.com]

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 13:19:57 -0400, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net>
wrote:

Around here just a tag penned with a magic marker... Fake News!
A couple hundred years ago all food was organic, now the entire planet
is polluted, there is no organic farmland anymore, zero... best anyone
can hope for is "less polluted".

I don't use chemicals but I'm sure many neighbors do. Whenever it
rains the chemicals used on higher land flows down to me. Anyone
paying double for organic food is an organic fool.... there is no way
whatsoever to know unless one pays to have their food analyzed at an
independant laboratory. Plus there are no standards for what
constitutes organic. The best one can do is grow as much themselves
and buy from trusted farmers. The 91 acres I own in the next county
is farmed by an organic beef cattle rancher who sells his meat... he
says all his land is organic and my land and others he hays is
organic. All I can do is take his word for it. And recently I found
out he is selling his home and land and the entire working operation
and he is moving, not too far, but he realizes he's gotten too old for
farming. He can't say if the new owner will want to harvest my hay,
so yesterday I called a local trusted builder to see about developing
my 91 acres. my wife's youngest son worked for them as a finisher
carpenter.
Sandy Gordon hays my fields:
http://www.gordon-farms.com/Gordon_Farms/Welcome.html
He's selling but moving nearby:
http://cmfoxrealestate.com/homes-for-sale-details/144-BEEBE-RD-KNOX-NY-12023/201710366/129/
One of my favorite organic pics:
http://cmfoxrealestate.com/homes-for-sale-details/144-BEEBE-RD-KNOX-NY-12023/201710366/129/
Were I younger I'd have built a home on this knoll, the highest point
in Albany County, can see forever:
https://postimg.org/image/voy7ideb9/
Organic hay just baled:
https://postimg.org/image/92sw5n0l1/
Driving around I spotted that sign, phoned, did a Trump, made a cash
offer, I bought it for 40K under asking... there's my Landcruiser:
https://postimg.org/image/8iiggowqd/
That's one of the finast plots of land for farming/living exists...
nearby surrounding towns have excellent shopping and less than
an an hour into downtown Albany.
Altamont is a 20 minute scenic drive to tons of shopping and fantastic
eateries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont,_New_York

[Bruce]

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 13:19:57 -0400, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net>
wrote:

Don't you have an organisation that checks these things or is it still
the wild west there?

[Bruce]

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 15:24:54 -0400, penm...@aol.com wrote:

>On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 13:19:57 -0400, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On 9/12/2017 2:06 PM, penm...@aol.com wrote:
>>> It's very easy to do ones own checking... if there's no insect damage
>>> it's NOT organic. The organic produce displayed in stores is all too
>>> perfect to be organic.... larger speciments too, indicates chemical
>>> fertilizers also.
>>> I've been growing vegetables all my life and have never used any
>>> chemicals... my harvest indicates plenty of insect presence, I simply
>>> pare away those parts, same as I pare away other critter damage.
>>
>>I distrust labels that say "organic" for many of the reasons you state.
>>There's also the fact that everything labelled "organic" tends to cost
>>twice as much. There's no proof, it's just a label.
>>
>>Jill
>
>Around here just a tag penned with a magic marker... Fake News!
>A couple hundred years ago all food was organic, now the entire planet
>is polluted, there is no organic farmland anymore, zero... best anyone
>can hope for is "less polluted".
>
>I don't use chemicals but I'm sure many neighbors do.

I've asked you before but you didn't reply. Why don't you use
chemicals? Everything's already polluted anyway. Hell, the entire
planet's polluted! And chemicals make gardening a lot easier. So why
don't you use them?

>Whenever it
>rains the chemicals used on higher land flows down to me. Anyone
>paying double for organic food is an organic fool.... there is no way
>whatsoever to know unless one pays to have their food analyzed at an
>independant laboratory. Plus there are no standards for what
>constitutes organic.

There are in the 2 countries that I know. Very strict standards. Not
in the US?

>The best one can do is grow as much themselves
>and buy from trusted farmers.

What is there to trust? The entire planet's polluted anyway!

[Cindy Hamilton]

<https://www.ams.usda.gov/grades-standards/organic-standards>

I'm pretty sure you can say "organic" without any kind of oversight.
But you can't say "USDA organic".

So, yeah. Wild West. The business of the U.S. is business.

Cindy Hamilton

[Bruce]

Are you saying "organic" isn't a legal, protected term in the US, but
"USDA organic" is? McDonalds can call their food "organic", but not
"USDA organic", for instance?

[Cindy Hamilton]

As far as I know, yes. I haven't made a huge study of it.

Ah, here's some additional information:

<https://www.ams.usda.gov/grades-standards/organic-labeling-standards>

<https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/about/live-healthy/consumer-labels>

Cindy Hamilton

[Bruce]

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 04:06:38 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton

But that's all good then. If it has that label, you know they can't be
bullshitting.

[penm...@aol.com]

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 03:31:49 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
<angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:

The USDA is as corrupt as any other grubbermint agency... the
livestock farmers give the inspecters payola to wear blinders....
nothing is sperfect, perfection eludes us.

[cshenk]

notbob wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On 2017-09-15, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > I distrust labels that say "organic" for many of the reasons you
> > state. There's also the fact that everything labelled "organic"
> > tends to cost twice as much. There's no proof, it's just a label.
>
> You distrust a label that sez "organic" even more than a food product
> that promises everything!? Like pomegranate juice or that ridiculous
> mushroom juice (something-buca?)
>
> Yes, there are scammers, out there. No one has seen more than 100
> dairy cows, in a pasture, supposedly supporting more than 2,000 head
> of cattle on an "organic" dairy farm, here in CO. Whole foods and
> Walmart are simply trying to buy off the govt droids deciding exactly
> what qualifies as "organic". Kinda like what constitutes, "clean
> water" or "clean air".
>
> OTOH, "organic" does NOT cost twice as much. Like I sed in an earlier
> post, Safeway and Kroger are charging $9USD lb fer NON-organic cube
> steaks. My organic whole chicken only cost a bit over $4USD lb. Less
> than half as much! I rarely pay more than 30% more, fer "organic".
> Can I afford it? If I don't buy stupid stuff, like pre-peeled and
> quartered apples and 3 oz pkgs of mint.

Apples and oranges. Chicken is cheaper, even in organics.