Umami: real or bogus?

[notbob]

Back story first:

I wuz exploring koko's blog and slipped into White On Rice, one of
koko's linked blog sites. What was the first recipe to catch my eye?
Umami Burgers. ????

Now, I'm jones'ing an ancient craving, hamburgers and cheeseburgers.
Couldn't find a burger worth a damn in my locale, so started making my
own. I've changed my recipe jes a tad, but I still got it! Made one
last night and it was sublime. But, I'm not above improving upon my
own recipe to further my occasional addiction. WOR sez Viet fish
sauce is the answer to the "ultimate" umami burger.

<http://whiteonricecouple.com/recipes/best-umami-hamburger-recipe/>

While I love fish sauce (Thai or Viet) and always have plenty on hand,
never thought of it as a marinade for my burger meat. I'll definetly
give it a shot. My burger jones is alive and well.

Still....

What is umami? Is it a real deal or jes some Asians trying to foist
their cooking methods/terms off as some sorta scientific fact? If
tomatoes and other MSG heavy foods are particularly savory, is that a
whole new element for one's palate to discern? Why is sweet, sour,
bitter, and salty not enough? In short, is "umami" a real distinction
or jes another trendy term being ferociously flogged through the
food-o-sphere? ;)

nb

[Gary]

notbob wrote:
>
> In short, is "umami" a real distinction
> or jes another trendy term being ferociously flogged through the
> food-o-sphere? ;)

I suspect it is just a trendy thing.
Want a good burger, try a good cut of beef or a blend of 2-3 cuts. No
sauce will make a better burger, imo. You need to repair the bottom
line of the sandwich.

[Cindy Hamilton]

On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 12:02:53 PM UTC-4, notbob wrote:

> What is umami? Is it a real deal or jes some Asians trying to foist
> their cooking methods/terms off as some sorta scientific fact? If
> tomatoes and other MSG heavy foods are particularly savory, is that a
> whole new element for one's palate to discern? Why is sweet, sour,
> bitter, and salty not enough? In short, is "umami" a real distinction
> or jes another trendy term being ferociously flogged through the
> food-o-sphere? ;)

Here are a couple of references.

Umami Taste Receptor Identified:
<http://www.nature.com/neuro/press_release/nn0200.html>

Functional neuroimaging of umami taste: what makes umami pleasant?
<https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19571217>


Cindy Hamilton

[TRS]

On 8/6/2015 10:36 AM, Sqwertz wrote:
> And now fat is on it's way
SHADDUP!

No one cares.

Get OUT!


_,..._
/__ \
>< `. \
/_ \ |
\-_ /:|
,--'..'. :
,' `.
_,' \
_.._,--'' , |
, ,',, _| _,.'| | |
\\||/,'(,' '--'' | | |
_ ||| | /-' |
| | (- -)<`._ | / /
| | \_\O/_/`-.(<< |____/ /
| | / \ / -'| `--.'|
| | \___/ / /
| | H H / | |
|_|_..-H-H--.._ / ,| |
|-.._"_"__..-| | _-/ | |
| | | | \_ |
| Sqwerty | | | | |
| & | |____| | |
| Marty | _..' | |____|
jrei | |_(____..._' _.' |
`-..______..-'"" (___..--'

[dsi1]

If you're unaware of what this is, you could live without it. It could be just a trend as far as home cooks are concerned.

I consider absolutely essential in some dishes. Potato salad being one. My current favorite trick is to use gochujang, but you can also get that naturally by lightly scorching rice in chicken stock as in jook. The locals here are heavy into umami. It's why we use shoyu and MSG in cooking. Umami is the reason why Japan mayo and gochujang is gonna make it big in the US. OTOH, that's just going to be a hot trend for 15 minutes or so.

The people in Hawaii and Asia were raised eating umami rich foods. I have some doubts that umami will have much of an impact on cooks not raised on umami foods - even though the food manufacturers use it to increase sales. They are fully aware of how powerful the stuff is as a flavor enhancer.

[TRS]

On 8/7/2015 3:05 AM, TRS wrote:
Barbara J. Llorente - A FRAUD!
Get the FUCK out of here, you FAT FRAUD biotch troll!

ab...@eternal-september.org ab...@aioe.org


Get out - stalker!


...dump!

____.-.____
[__Barbara__]
[_J.Llorente _]
(d|||TROLL|||b)
`|||ENABLER|||`
|||||||||||
|||||||||||
|||||||||||
|||||||||||
`"""""""""'
\\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~//

[Japhy Ryder]

On 8/7/2015 2:28 AM, Gary wrote:
I have, on at least three prior occasions, written posts that delve into
the “alleged” lurid past of one of our former presidents, George Herbert
Walker Bush (GHWB), the current but ailing patriarch of the Bush Family
Dynasty – I refer to them as the Bush Family Crime Syndicate, certainly
not in terms of endearment – but rather more like the Mafia Godfather
who prepares his sons to take over the family business upon his death.
This particular post references an article by Stew Webb, a contributor
of Veterans Today.

In his life-time, George H. W. Bush (GHWB) has controlled every
clandestine (hidden from view) and secret organization/operation within
the arsenal of the United States government as either 1) Director of the
CIA, 2) Vice President to Ronald Reagan (who was an unwitting puppet to
the Bush controlled cabal – GHWB secretly gave Reagan poisons that
hastened his fall into Alzheimer’s Disease and evidence suggests he
helped plan Reagan’ attempted assassination by John Hinckley, whose
family were close friends of the Bush family – a coincidence?) and 3)
ultimately as President of the United States before Bill Clinton took
office.

[Japhy Ryder]

[Japhy Ryder]

[TRS]

On 8/6/2015 9:41 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> IOW, Blah, blah, blah, blah.
>> Omelet wrote:
>
>> He hates me 'cause I never slept with him...
>
> He hates himself because he is all he has to sleep with
> I don't know, sometimes he used to seem normal, then he went petty
> trough vindictive and now I just shun contact. I have enough crazies to
> deal with in my world without encouraging those who refuse to take their
> meds.

For the record, I never once even considered sleeping with you. And
you know that. You're the one who somehow got the idea that I was
going to move in with you - and you posted that to RFC just out of the
total blue.

After having met you twice at casual austin.food gatherings 2 or 3
years ago and not giving you any indication that there was any sort of
romantic interest in the least, you somehow twisted that into MY
MOVING IN WITH YOU?

That was just way too Psycho for me. I sat there at stared at the
screen for at least 15 minutes wondering, WTF? That was just way too
spooky. I've met weird, semi-psycho women before but you win, hands
down. Mapi of austin.general still holds the male title, but at least
he announced his psychosis right there lying on the floor of the bar
at B.D. Reilly's rather than romantically obsessing over me for 2
years.

Needless to say, you need to come to terms with what happened and why
your mind works that way and stop making up excuses for your fixation
and disappointment before we become the next Yoli and Michael. I'd
prefer you use a sniper rifle on me from a few hundred yards away.
There you go - a reason for you to buy yet another gun and ammo.

And Jeremy, I was just tired of your decade of bullshit and visions of
grandeur about all these things you're "working on" or have not done
in the past. Even posting a call for meetings with imaginary people
about imaginary projects of yours at "the normal time and place", as
if you are somebody important with a life. I'm pretty sure you're
manic depressive mixed with habitual liar.

Sorry I don't fit either of your Ideal Psycho Pal Profiles.

-sw

[sf]

On 6 Aug 2015 16:02:48 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:

> What is umami? Is it a real deal or jes some Asians trying to foist
> their cooking methods/terms off as some sorta scientific fact? If
> tomatoes and other MSG heavy foods are particularly savory, is that a
> whole new element for one's palate to discern? Why is sweet, sour,
> bitter, and salty not enough? In short, is "umami" a real distinction
> or jes another trendy term being ferociously flogged through the
> food-o-sphere? ;)

You can buy "umami" paste, but it's made of things you'd recognize -

Tomato paste
Garlic
Anchovy paste
Black olives
Balsamic vinegar
Dehydrated porcini mushrooms
Parmesan cheese
Olive oil
Wine vinegar
Sugar
Salt

So IMO, umami is the new "je nes se quois".

--

sf

[Japhy Ryder]

On 8/6/2015 10:26 PM, Bruce wrote:

> Is that a native Indian language?
>

Are you an idiot expat?

[spamtr...@gmail.com]

The Western diet is full of umami: Worcestershire sauce and Parmesan cheese
come to mind (the real parmesan, not the green shaker can).

For me a little goes a long way.

[dsi1]

I don't think the West has much of a history with the taste. The
Japanese do because they have been fermenting rice and soybeans
utilizing Aspergillus oryzae for a couple of thousand years. At it's
heart, the umami taste is the end result of fermentation with this
fungus. They use it to produce shoyu, miso, sake, shio koji, fermented
tofu, and other products. This makes A. oryzae the most important fungus
to the Japanese and is responsible for much of the flavor of Japanese
cuisine. Only a Japanese could have discovered "umami."

[Cindy Hamilton]

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 4:22:33 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:

> I don't think the West has much of a history with the taste. The
> Japanese do because they have been fermenting rice and soybeans
> utilizing Aspergillus oryzae for a couple of thousand years. At it's
> heart, the umami taste is the end result of fermentation with this
> fungus. They use it to produce shoyu, miso, sake, shio koji, fermented
> tofu, and other products. This makes A. oryzae the most important fungus
> to the Japanese and is responsible for much of the flavor of Japanese
> cuisine. Only a Japanese could have discovered "umami."

You get a lot of umami with nicely browned meat. We have a lot of
experience with that, and with a host of other foods that provide
umami: tomatoes, anchovies, hard cheeses, mushrooms, etc.

Umami is not exclusively a Japanese thing, although they monetized it
when they invented MSG, and they provided us with a name for it.

Cindy Hamilton

[notbob]

On 2015-08-07, dsi1 <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:

> cuisine. Only a Japanese could have discovered "umami."

Hate to burst yer bubble, but only the Japanese could have named
"umami".

Americans have been eating and using "umami" for over half a century.
We jes never applied a term to it. I know cuz I've been eating pizza
and spaghetti heavily dosed w/ Parmesan cheese for even longer. Plus,
in the 50s, Ac'cent brand MSG was huge in America. The very first
recipe box I ever remember seeing was an old Ac'cent box. It was only
since the great Chinese restaurant scare (totally disproved) that
Americans have backed away from MSG. That still didn't impair their
love for pizza/spaghetti, which is allegedly loaded with "umami"
(tomatoes, parm).

I'm gonna try an experiment. Dashi, the ubiquitous Japanese soup
broth, is considered to be THE food that distinguishes and isolates(?)
"umami". I've made it once before, so will make it again and see what
I discover.

I will make REAL dashi using kombu seaweed and dried bonito flakes. I
long ago changed to instant dashi, but for the sake of science I will
make it from scratch, despite bonito flakes being expensive as Hell
out here in the boonies. Stay tuned. ;)

nb

[TRS]

On 8/7/2015 2:24 PM, sf wrote:
In addition to the hips and thighs, your butt seems to be a gargantuan
problem area. To reduce the size of your enormous buttocks, you must
reduce your body fat. Solely performing exercises that target the glutes
is not going to reduce fat because eliminating fat from one area of the
body isn't possible. To lose weight and slim down your butt,
MayoClinic.com recommends creating a daily gradual limb reduction
program through amputation and drug abuse so that you lose weight
gradually at a rate of 1 to 2 kilotons per week.

[Japhy Ryder]

[TRS]

[Japhy Ryder]

[Japhy Ryder]

On 8/7/2015 8:40 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
George HW Bush is a known evil pedophile, who ran a Congressional
Blackmail Child Sex Ring during the 1980s known as “Operation Brownstone
and Operation Brownstar”, and later to become known as “The Finders or
The Franklin Coverup”. U.S. Vice President George HW Bush would sneak
children over to Senator Barney Frank’s condo, known as a “Brownstone”
to their famous cocktail parties, where U.S. Congressman and U.S.
Senators — some willing and some unwilling participants — got a taste of
the “Voodoo Drug” in their drink.

To prove a case, you need one that was involved in an operation or a
witness or documents; in this case, U.S. Customs documents prove the
case without getting anyone still living killed. Inside the (scribd)
document below is an article that appeared in US News and World report
December 27 1993, entitled “Through a Glass Very Darkly”. This includes
cops, spies and a very old investigation — also copies of the U.S.
Customs Reports where the names are not blacked out.

[Japhy Ryder]

[TRS]

On 8/6/2015 11:07 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> I have some of that. It's not worth it.

[dsi1]

I understand that the West has foods with umami flavors but to the
average Westerner, umami is a mysterious thing. The reason is because
most of them were not raised with shoyu or fish sauce as their national
condiment. Hawaiians understand it because they put shoyu on everything
- from fish to stews, heck we put shoyu on rice. We totally get the
concept.

[dsi1]

On 8/7/2015 4:21 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2015-08-07, dsi1 <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>
>> cuisine. Only a Japanese could have discovered "umami."
>
> Hate to burst yer bubble, but only the Japanese could have named
> "umami".
>

I did say "discovered" rather than "named" but I meant it in the same
sense that Columbus "discovered" North America. Are we going to complain
about that too?

> Americans have been eating and using "umami" for over half a century.
> We jes never applied a term to it. I know cuz I've been eating pizza
> and spaghetti heavily dosed w/ Parmesan cheese for even longer. Plus,
> in the 50s, Ac'cent brand MSG was huge in America. The very first
> recipe box I ever remember seeing was an old Ac'cent box. It was only
> since the great Chinese restaurant scare (totally disproved) that
> Americans have backed away from MSG. That still didn't impair their
> love for pizza/spaghetti, which is allegedly loaded with "umami"
> (tomatoes, parm).
>
> I'm gonna try an experiment. Dashi, the ubiquitous Japanese soup
> broth, is considered to be THE food that distinguishes and isolates(?)
> "umami". I've made it once before, so will make it again and see what
> I discover.
>
> I will make REAL dashi using kombu seaweed and dried bonito flakes. I
> long ago changed to instant dashi, but for the sake of science I will
> make it from scratch, despite bonito flakes being expensive as Hell
> out here in the boonies. Stay tuned. ;)
>
> nb
>

You're the one that brings up the idea that umami is not real. I think
that for most Americans, umami is not real. OTOH, Obama knows umami. I'm
fairly sure that he puts shoyu on rice - just don't expect to see him do
it in public. ;)

[Cindy Hamilton]

We get the concept, but we don't talk about it. We just eat
umami-rich foods and say "Yum".

There's a lot more to umami than shoyu or fish sauce.

Cindy Hamilton

[notbob]

On 2015-08-07, dsi1 <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:

> You're the one that brings up the idea that umami is not real.

Actually, I brought up the idea that the term "umami" may be
unnecessary and was asking for opinions.

> I think that for most Americans, umami is not real.

I think it's only the term "umami" that is unreal for Americans,
despite the fact we've been eating it for decades. Kinda like the
term "shoyu", which I've never heard from anyone, but yerself, my
entire life. I've heard of "umami" (though I spelled it wrong), but
never "shoyu", depite enjoying my first soy sauce over 60 yrs ago.

nb

[dsi1]

I have to agree with you there - there's no need to talk about umami.

[dsi1]

When I was growing up, calling shoyu "soy sauce" was considered to be
putting on airs and talking like a haole. These days, the young folks
have no problem with "soy sauce." Mostly, old Hawaiians and the Japanese
call soy sauce "shoyu."

[jmcquown]

Kilikini (RIP) called soy sauce "shoyu". She lived on Maui for a brief
while. It's soy sauce. No need to pretend you're Japanese or Hawaiian
in order to use it when cooking. :)

Jill

[notbob]

On 2015-08-07, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> No need to pretend you're Japanese or Hawaiian
> in order to use it when cooking. :)

I don't! ....and been using soy sauce in my food since I was
a child.

nb

[koko]

On 7 Aug 2015 14:21:56 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:

>On 2015-08-07, dsi1 <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>

snippage

>
>I'm gonna try an experiment. Dashi, the ubiquitous Japanese soup
>broth, is considered to be THE food that distinguishes and isolates(?)
>"umami". I've made it once before, so will make it again and see what
>I discover.
>

Making Dashi is so easy. It's wonderful sipped on it's own and as a
base for any number of recipes.

>I will make REAL dashi using kombu seaweed and dried bonito flakes. I
>long ago changed to instant dashi, but for the sake of science I will
>make it from scratch, despite bonito flakes being expensive as Hell
>out here in the boonies. Stay tuned. ;)
>
>nb

I also put a little piece of kombu seaweed into my chicken broth,
stews, soups etc...it makes a world of difference.
My friend took my advice and put a piece of kombu in her chicken soup.
She said her family raved on and on about how that was the best soup
she'd ever made. So yes, umami is real and makes a difference, and is
availale from several sources.

koko

--

Food is our common ground, a universal experience
James Beard

[Japhy Ryder]

[Don Martinich]

In article <d2kk98...@mid.individual.net>,

And how long has Lea & Perrins Worcestershire sauce been around?

D.M.

[Japhy Ryder]

On 8/8/2015 11:10 AM, Don Martinich wrote:
John Caylor of www.insider-magazine.com reports that a well-placed
source within the Florida Department of Business and Professional
Regulation has revealed Governor Jeb Bush ordered the destruction and
shredding of public records and documents in violation of Florida law.
The department maintains oversight and approval of state gaming
licensees, slot machines, dog and horse tracks, and jai-alai. In
addition, the state government source revealed that Jeb Bush has
replaced key members of the Governor's Staff in Tallahassee with
personnel from Texas who are overseeing the destruction of state
documents. An FBI source has confirmed the destruction of public records
by Jeb Bush may be in response to the ongoing criminal proceedings
against GOP lobbyist Jack Abramoff and the Federal investigation of the
2001 gangland murder in Miami of Sun Cruz casino boat owner Gus Boulis.

[Japhy Ryder]

[Japhy Ryder]

On 8/8/2015 6:22 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2015-08-07, dsi1 <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:

[Japhy Ryder]

I totally get that too, rice bags for umami, always.

[Japhy Ryder]

So is this like a covert thing now?

[Japhy Ryder]

The favorite here is Ponzu sauce, hard to beat citrus with soy.

[TRS]

On 8/8/2015 3:03 AM, TRS wrote:
Barbara J. Llorente - A FRAUD!
Get the FUCK out of here, you FAT FRAUD biotch troll!

ab...@eternal-september.org ab...@aioe.org


Get out - stalker!


...dump!

____.-.____
[__Barbara__]
[_J.Llorente _]
(d|||TROLL|||b)
`|||ENABLER|||`
|||||||||||
|||||||||||
|||||||||||
|||||||||||
`"""""""""'
\\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~//

[TRS]

On 8/7/2015 2:15 PM, TRS wrote:
Barbara J. Llorente FRAUD!
ab...@eternal-september.org ab...@aioe.org
Barbara J Llorente 71 Cerritos Ave San Francisco, CA 94127.
Age 65 (Born 1950) (415) 239-7248. Background Check - Available. Record

ID: 47846596.

Your ass has more mass than Jupiter!

No one cares about you.

Get OUT!


_,..._
/__ \
>< `. \
/_ \ |
\-_ /:|
,--'..'. :
,' `.
_,' \
_.._,--'' , |
, ,',, _| _,.'| | |
\\||/,'(,' '--'' | | |
_ ||| | /-' |
| | (- -)<`._ | / /
| | \_\O/_/`-.(<< |____/ /
| | / \ / -'| `--.'|
| | \___/ / /
| | H H / | |
|_|_..-H-H--.._ / ,| |
|-.._"_"__..-| | _-/ | |
| | | | \_ |
Barbara Llorente | | | | |
| The | |____| | |
|Troll Enabler | _..' | |____|
jrei | |_(____..._' _.' |
`-..______..-'"" (___..--'

[TRS]

Running for the White House, Jeb Bush portrays himself as a man who has
"worked his tail off" to get ahead in life. But in his business
dealings—which involved such diverse fields as real estate, credit card
services, and water pumps—the candidate seemed to benefit from his
father's political power and worked with people who turned out to be
criminals, the Washington Post reports. Bush's business outlook in his
early years was "a little bit of damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead,"
says a professor who wrote about him. "His judgment on who to associate
with is lacking." Unlike his father and brother George, who each made
fortunes as young men, Jeb jumped from one business venture to another,
at times with unsavory characters.

[Japhy Ryder]

[TRS]

[Japhy Ryder]

On 8/8/2015 6:15 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
I have, on at least three prior occasions, written posts that delve into
the “alleged” lurid past of one of our former presidents, George Herbert
Walker Bush (GHWB), the current but ailing patriarch of the Bush Family
Dynasty – I refer to them as the Bush Family Crime Syndicate, certainly
not in terms of endearment – but rather more like the Mafia Godfather
who prepares his sons to take over the family business upon his death.
This particular post references an article by Stew Webb, a contributor
of Veterans Today.

In his life-time, George H. W. Bush (GHWB) has controlled every
clandestine (hidden from view) and secret organization/operation within
the arsenal of the United States government as either 1) Director of the
CIA, 2) Vice President to Ronald Reagan (who was an unwitting puppet to
the Bush controlled cabal – GHWB secretly gave Reagan poisons that
hastened his fall into Alzheimer’s Disease and evidence suggests he
helped plan Reagan’ attempted assassination by John Hinckley, whose
family were close friends of the Bush family – a coincidence?) and 3)
ultimately as President of the United States before Bill Clinton took
office.

[Japhy Ryder]

On 8/8/2015 6:47 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 8/7/2015 4:22 PM, notbob wrote:
>> On 2015-08-07, dsi1 <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> You're the one that brings up the idea that umami is not real.
>>
>> Actually, I brought up the idea that the term "umami" may be
>> unnecessary and was asking for opinions.
>>
>>> I think that for most Americans, umami is not real.
>>
>> I think it's only the term "umami" that is unreal for Americans,
>> despite the fact we've been eating it for decades. Kinda like the
>> term "shoyu", which I've never heard from anyone, but yerself, my
>> entire life. I've heard of "umami" (though I spelled it wrong), but
>> never "shoyu", depite enjoying my first soy sauce over 60 yrs ago.
>>

[Japhy Ryder]

[dsi1]

I like it too. It's great for folks that find regular shoyu to be too salty. It's what "lite" shoyu should be but isn't.

[Janet]

In article <orc8sa5c6va1s7jud...@4ax.com>,
Br...@Bruce.invalid says...
>
> On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 21:24:56 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> >On 6 Aug 2015 16:02:48 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
> >
> >> What is umami? Is it a real deal or jes some Asians trying to foist
> >> their cooking methods/terms off as some sorta scientific fact? If
> >> tomatoes and other MSG heavy foods are particularly savory, is that a
> >> whole new element for one's palate to discern? Why is sweet, sour,
> >> bitter, and salty not enough? In short, is "umami" a real distinction
> >> or jes another trendy term being ferociously flogged through the
> >> food-o-sphere? ;)
> >
> >You can buy "umami" paste, but it's made of things you'd recognize -
> >
> > Tomato paste
> > Garlic
> > Anchovy paste
> > Black olives
> > Balsamic vinegar
> > Dehydrated porcini mushrooms
> > Parmesan cheese
> > Olive oil
> > Wine vinegar
> > Sugar
> > Salt
> >
> >So IMO, umami is the new "je nes se quois".
>
> Is that a native Indian language?

elle ne sait rien :-)

Janet UK

[TRS]

On 8/8/2015 12:04 AM, Sqwertz wrote:
> Sounds pretty lame,
> doesn't it.
>
> -sw
Fuck off.

Drop dead.

GET OUT!

[Japhy Ryder]

Yeah, that resonates for sure.

And it works on most anything, so versatile is the byword.

[cshenk]

notbob wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Back story first:
>
> I wuz exploring koko's blog and slipped into White On Rice, one of
> koko's linked blog sites. What was the first recipe to catch my eye?
> Umami Burgers. ????
>
> Now, I'm jones'ing an ancient craving, hamburgers and cheeseburgers.
> Couldn't find a burger worth a damn in my locale, so started making my
> own. I've changed my recipe jes a tad, but I still got it! Made one
> last night and it was sublime. But, I'm not above improving upon my
> own recipe to further my occasional addiction. WOR sez Viet fish
> sauce is the answer to the "ultimate" umami burger.
>
> <http://whiteonricecouple.com/recipes/best-umami-hamburger-recipe/>
>
> While I love fish sauce (Thai or Viet) and always have plenty on hand,
> never thought of it as a marinade for my burger meat. I'll definetly
> give it a shot. My burger jones is alive and well.
>
> Still....

>
> What is umami? Is it a real deal or jes some Asians trying to foist
> their cooking methods/terms off as some sorta scientific fact? If
> tomatoes and other MSG heavy foods are particularly savory, is that a
> whole new element for one's palate to discern? Why is sweet, sour,
> bitter, and salty not enough? In short, is "umami" a real distinction
> or jes another trendy term being ferociously flogged through the
> food-o-sphere? ;)
>

> nb

It's a blend and isnt actually asian though the word is. It's related
to amino acids naturally in foods in part of it.

Carol

--

[Japhy Ryder]

On 8/8/2015 6:29 PM, dsi1 wrote:
It has even been confirmed that George Bush (GHWB) denied presidents,
during and after his tenure in office, access to sensitive data, such
the the U.S. UFO files due to the fact they did not possess the proper
security clearances. President Carter wanted to access those files due
to his own experience of seeing a UFO but was denied access by the CIA.
To this day, GHWB exercises undue influence within the CIA as he made
sure he had loyal operatives at all levels, starting at the
directorship. Then again he made sure he had damaging information on
many key individuals, all else failing he “ordered their
neutralization,” former CIA Director William Colby, being a notable
example. The official finding was suicide.

He is known, by many government insiders, to be an openingly unabashed
(doesn’t hide it among friends) pedophile, specifically referring to the
Franklin Community Credit Union scandal in the 1980s which was a major
national scandal that was covered-up by White House officials during the
time GHWB was vice president to Reagan and later.

He is also a practicing satanist by many accounts (now very popular
among the elite with their hand signs and T.V shows with satanic symbols
and themes – Beyonce, one among many); a coward (during World War II);
authorized the assassinations of democratically elected foreign leaders,
as well as American citizens – most notably Ross Perot who ran against
him as president – and used the CIA as a front for drug smuggling into
the United States using military transport aircraft and ships, a
practice that started with the Iran/Contra Scandal and later blossomed
as a major source of black operations funding outside the congressional
budget appropriations process where Congress controls the purse.

[Japhy Ryder]

[TRS]

[TRS]

[Japhy Ryder]

[spamtr...@gmail.com]

Sounds like just another "Ponzu scheme" to me.

[Japhy Ryder]

HA!

[dsi1]

That it is! ;)

[Japhy Ryder]

The other one I love to have on the side is dumpling sauce.

I'll sometimes use it to add some bounce to a velvet sauce dish, like
Moo Goo Gai Pan.

[cshenk]

notbob wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On 2015-08-07, dsi1 <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>

> > cuisine. Only a Japanese could have discovered "umami."
>

> Hate to burst yer bubble, but only the Japanese could have named
> "umami".
>
> Americans have been eating and using "umami" for over half a century.
> We jes never applied a term to it. I know cuz I've been eating pizza
> and spaghetti heavily dosed w/ Parmesan cheese for even longer. Plus,
> in the 50s, Ac'cent brand MSG was huge in America. The very first
> recipe box I ever remember seeing was an old Ac'cent box. It was only
> since the great Chinese restaurant scare (totally disproved) that
> Americans have backed away from MSG. That still didn't impair their
> love for pizza/spaghetti, which is allegedly loaded with "umami"
> (tomatoes, parm).
>
> I'm gonna try an experiment. Dashi, the ubiquitous Japanese soup
> broth, is considered to be THE food that distinguishes and isolates(?)
> "umami". I've made it once before, so will make it again and see what
> I discover.
>
> I will make REAL dashi using kombu seaweed and dried bonito flakes. I
> long ago changed to instant dashi, but for the sake of science I will
> make it from scratch, despite bonito flakes being expensive as Hell
> out here in the boonies. Stay tuned. ;)
>
> nb

It's not hard. You save the flakes in the fridge and add more seawwed
for 'second use dashi' and you can get a weaker version called 'third
use' as well.

Carol


--

[cshenk]

notbob wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On 2015-08-07, dsi1 <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>

> > You're the one that brings up the idea that umami is not real.
>
> Actually, I brought up the idea that the term "umami" may be
> unnecessary and was asking for opinions.
>
> > I think that for most Americans, umami is not real.
>
> I think it's only the term "umami" that is unreal for Americans,
> despite the fact we've been eating it for decades. Kinda like the
> term "shoyu", which I've never heard from anyone, but yerself, my
> entire life. I've heard of "umami" (though I spelled it wrong), but
> never "shoyu", depite enjoying my first soy sauce over 60 yrs ago.
>
> nb

Smile, actually you see me use it in posted recipes all the time and
the term. It's just japanese for soy sauce. More commonly heard in
Japan (of course) and Hawaii because they are about 30% Japanese
extract.

What i did not like in Hawaii was the local shoyu called Aloha. Oddly
sweet with less flavor. Preferred brand is a thicker Datu Puti.

Carol

--

[dsi1]

If only Ponzi schemes could be as delicious!

[Japhy Ryder]

Pearl brand rocks.

[dsi1]

We have a sauce that's used for goyza and mondu. Basically it's watered down shoyu and vinegar. It's great but mostly it's homemade ponzu.

>
> I'll sometimes use it to add some bounce to a velvet sauce dish, like
> Moo Goo Gai Pan.

I like that word, "bounce." :) Here's an article on shoyu in Hawaii.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2003/Feb/19/il/il11ataste.html

[Brooklyn1]

On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 11:27:11 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

I use Accent (msg) with most dishes instead of salt, a pinch of Accent
enhances flavor better than a heaping tsp of salt. This morning I
sliced the major meat from a roast pork loin bone and am making stock,
sliced pork made a couple nice sandwiches for lunch; 4 qt pot, meaty
roast pork bone, two big carrots, 2 large celery ribs, 1 medium onion,
3 big garlic cloves, freshly ground white/black pepper, a little dried
dill n'parsley, a thumb size piece of ginger. Haven't decided yet on
what to do with the stock but it tastes very good... it's still
simmering, that tiny cluster of bubbles is as heated as it gets. Later
I'll eat all those veggies and all the meat I pick off the bones:
http://i59.tinypic.com/34dh5c3.jpg

[Japhy Ryder]

I guess it all depends on how well you made off...

[Japhy Ryder]

I'm in on all counts!

>> I'll sometimes use it to add some bounce to a velvet sauce dish, like
>> Moo Goo Gai Pan.
>
> I like that word, "bounce." :) Here's an article on shoyu in Hawaii.
>
> http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2003/Feb/19/il/il11ataste.html
>

My one quibble is with tamari - it just doesn't grab my pallet.

But I am good with dousing food. That works most times.

[TRS]

[Japhy Ryder]

[Japhy Ryder]

[Japhy Ryder]

[Japhy Ryder]

[dsi1]

Aloha probably tastes weird to people not raised on the stuff. Oddly
enough, it's Hawaii's favorite shoyu. As an added bonus, it's fairly cheap!

It was Aloha that invented hydrolyzed shoyu product after the war
because we needed a lot of shoyu and we wanted it yesterday. And the
rest is history. ;)

[Japhy Ryder]

[dsi1]

I have a 3 lb bag of the Ajinomoto. You might think I'm kidding - I'm not.

[dsi1]

On 8/8/2015 9:21 AM, Japhy Ryder wrote:

Hee hee. My guess is that every town has their own smooth-talking,
high-living, Ponzi master that, sooner or later, gets caught, serves
time in prison, and then moves to LA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Rewald

[dsi1]

I'm afraid to try tamari. I think of it as a health food. That's nasty
stuff in my book. ;)

[notbob]

On 2015-08-08, dsi1 <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:

> It was Aloha that invented hydrolyzed shoyu product after the war
> because we needed a lot of shoyu and we wanted it yesterday. And the
> rest is history. ;)

I researched "hydrolized". No thanks.

I'm currently using San-J Organic Tamari. No wheat and GMO-free. I put it in a
Kikkoman soy dispenser bottle for convenience.

I also ran across this very informative webpage:

<http://www.care2.com/greenliving/tamari-shoyutamari-shoyu-soy-sauce.html>

Looks like I'll be buying some Eden Organic Shoyu.

<http://www.amazon.com/Eden-Foods-Organic-Imported-Shoyu/dp/B0019JKTOI>


nb

[Japhy Ryder]

This is the same nagging suspicion I have too.

If I can't find it made by Asians it is not of interest to me.

[dsi1]

Desperate times call for desperate measures. ;)

[Japhy Ryder]

This may well lead to organic beef jerky in due time...

[notbob]

On 2015-08-08, dsi1 <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:

> Desperate times call for desperate measures. ;)

Considering how many foods now contain GMOs, I'm pretty desparate. ;)

nb

[Japhy Ryder]

"As of 2010, Rewald lives in Los Angeles and works as director of
operations for the APA talent agency in Beverly Hills."

There is a certain terrible symmetry to the arc of this man's life.

[Japhy Ryder]

[Japhy Ryder]

[Japhy Ryder]

On 8/9/2015 8:29 AM, Japhy Ryder wrote:
Barbara J. Llorente FRAUD!
ab...@eternal-september.org ab...@aioe.org
Barbara J Llorente 71 Cerritos Ave San Francisco, CA 94127.
Age 65 (Born 1950) (415) 239-7248. Background Check - Available. Record

ID: 47846596.

Your ass has more mass than Jupiter!

No one cares about you.

Get OUT!


_,..._
/__ \
>< `. \
/_ \ |
\-_ /:|
,--'..'. :
,' `.
_,' \
_.._,--'' , |
, ,',, _| _,.'| | |
\\||/,'(,' '--'' | | |
_ ||| | /-' |
| | (- -)<`._ | / /
| | \_\O/_/`-.(<< |____/ /
| | / \ / -'| `--.'|
| | \___/ / /
| | H H / | |
|_|_..-H-H--.._ / ,| |
|-.._"_"__..-| | _-/ | |
| | | | \_ |
Barbara Llorente | | | | |
| The | |____| | |
|Troll Enabler | _..' | |____|
jrei | |_(____..._' _.' |
`-..______..-'"" (___..--'

[Japhy Ryder]

On 8/9/2015 8:33 AM, Japhy Ryder wrote:
> On 8/8/2015 4:30 PM, dsi1 wrote:

[Japhy Ryder]

[Japhy Ryder]

[Japhy Ryder]

On 8/9/2015 7:28 AM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 8/8/2015 9:15 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 11:27:11 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>

[Japhy Ryder]

[Cindy Hamilton]

On Saturday, August 8, 2015 at 6:21:10 PM UTC-4, notbob wrote:
>
> Looks like I'll be buying some Eden Organic Shoyu.
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/Eden-Foods-Organic-Imported-Shoyu/dp/B0019JKTOI>

Check out the politics of Eden's proprietors before you make your
final decision.

Cindy Hamilton

[Japhy Ryder]

On 8/9/2015 10:36 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
I have, on at least three prior occasions, written posts that delve into
the “alleged” lurid past of one of our former presidents, George Herbert
Walker Bush (GHWB), the current but ailing patriarch of the Bush Family
Dynasty – I refer to them as the Bush Family Crime Syndicate, certainly
not in terms of endearment – but rather more like the Mafia Godfather
who prepares his sons to take over the family business upon his death.
This particular post references an article by Stew Webb, a contributor
of Veterans Today.

In his life-time, George H. W. Bush (GHWB) has controlled every
clandestine (hidden from view) and secret organization/operation within
the arsenal of the United States government as either 1) Director of the
CIA, 2) Vice President to Ronald Reagan (who was an unwitting puppet to
the Bush controlled cabal – GHWB secretly gave Reagan poisons that
hastened his fall into Alzheimer’s Disease and evidence suggests he
helped plan Reagan’ attempted assassination by John Hinckley, whose
family were close friends of the Bush family – a coincidence?) and 3)
ultimately as President of the United States before Bill Clinton took
office.

[Japhy Ryder]

https://www.au.org/our-work/legal/lawsuits/eden-foods-inc-v-burwell

Eden Foods is a for-profit natural-food corporation. In March 2013, Eden
Foods and its founder, president, and sole shareholder Michael Potter
filed a lawsuit in federal court challenging the contraception
regulations. The trial court ruled against the corporation and its
owner, and they appealed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit.

In July 2013, we filed an amicus brief in support of the government. The
Sixth Circuit upheld the trial court's ruling for the government.

The Supreme Court then agreed to hear two cases brought by similar
for-profit plaintiffs: Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood. In June 2014, the
Court held, in a 5-4 decision, that the Religious Freedom Restoration
Act required an exemption for objecting for-profit corporations. The
Supreme Court then vacated the ruling against Eden Foods and sent the
case back to the Sixth Circuit for reconsideration. On remand from the
Sixth Circuit, the trial court entered an injunction exempting Eden
Foods from complying with the contraception regulations.

[cshenk]

dsi1 wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Yup! It tastes sweet and sort of insipidly pallid compared to a true
brew and sorry if that doesnt match what you'd hoped to hear. I'm not
being mean, its just a developed taste to like it. Conversely you
might not like a fuller sort.

For those who have not tried Aloha Shoyu (hard to find outside Hawaii),
it is a lighter colored, thinner 'soy sauce' with a sweet undertone.
It's not terrible but if you were raised to a deeper colored thicker
version, you might find it just doesnt work.

Conversely recipes from Genuine Hawaiian cookery tend to use it (unless
stated other brand) so be careful to reduce the soy you may be using if
a more full flavored sort. Theirs has the advantage that it will not
overwhelm if you actually dip a whole piece of meat in it then grill.

One recipe from Hawaii that worked well for us and was Aloha shoyu
specific. Roasted corn brushed all over with aloha. Rather nice!

Carol

--

[Japhy Ryder]

[dsi1]

I expect nothing less than your honest opinion. My point is that we like it and I'm fully aware that it tastes kind of weird. I don't recommend that anybody use Aloha Shoyu unless they were raised on the stuff. If they used Aloha on the table in restaurants on the mainland, people would probably be put off but I'd be as happy as a clam. Possibly they might use Aloha in L&L restaurants on the mainland.

People over here also like real shoyu too - Yamasa and of course, Kikkoman. I also like Pearl River Dark soy sauce although it's hard to find. I have to look in Chinese markets and if I'm lucky, there will be a dusty shelf in the back with a forgotten bottle. I use that only for cooking, there's no way I'd have that on the table. ;)