Sumac Seed
Anthony A. Datri
There are several varieties of tree/bush known as "Sumac". There were a bunch
of them alongside the grade school I attended. They produced big wads of
seeds, but I *think* that at least one variety is toxic to humans.
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katherine.e.fagan
A friend of mine has a recipe which calls for "sumac seed".
Neither of us is familiar with this ingredient. Perhaps it's
known by another name in American cooking? Can anyone tell us
1) What it is
2) If there are any sources for it in the NE US (or by mail)
3) What (if anything) would be a resonable substitute
In return, I'll get the recipe from my friend and post it!
Thanks!
Kathy
k.e....@aluxpo.att.com
Ronald F. Feldstein
When ground up, it's often sprinkled on such things as shish kebab
and lyulya kebab. On a recent visit to an Afghani restaurant in
New York City, I noticed that this spice was in salt shakers on the
table. I buy it locally in Indiana at our Iranian grocery store.
Almost any Middle East grocery store should have it, but they
seldom know it as barberry.
R. Feldstein
Dave Rindos
Just as well, cause it ain't barberry :{)
zataar, zatar, etc. is the fruit of Rhus coriaria from the Mediterranean
region. The genus is widespread (and yes it DOES include poison ivy and
poiston oak, depending on your taxonomy). R. typhina of the
Northeastern US is similar (Staghorn sumac), R. integrifolia, ovata and
trilobata (all southwestern US), and other species have very similar
fruits whcih likely could be used as substitutes (but DO make sure you
have your ID's correct!).
Dave,
who tried a few times to make sumac-aide from the staghorn sumac and
found it MOST disappointing.
Ronald F. Feldstein
sumac is barberry, I did not make this up myself, but got it from a
printed source, which I'll now give. It's from _The Russian Cookbook_,
by Barbara Norman (Bantam, 1970). On page 134, she states the
following:
"They (Azerbaidzhanis) share with the Georgians a taste for dried, powdered
barberry, which can be obtained from Near Eastern groceries under the
name of barberis or sumakh."
Perhaps she is wrong. Maybe, we're talking about two different things.
I've always heard of a plant called "sumac" in English (as in poison sumac),
but I thought that this spice was something with no relation to that
plant.
R. Feldstein
Lynn Z. Schaeffer
>A friend of mine has a recipe which calls for "sumac seed"...
>1) What it is...
Back when I was more of a camper, I heard that sumac berries could be used to
make a kind of pink lemonade--that they had a lemony tartness to them. I never
tried it though. Sumac trees are kind of a junk tree (but beautiful!) which
grows all over the North East US, at least. In late summer, they display a
furry, dark pink or red cluster of fruits. The cluster is oval with a pointed
top, probably 6 to 10 inches high. These "berries" are presumably what you are
looking for, but I have never seen them for sale anywhere.
What is the recipe? Now I'm really curious. 8) --Lynn
Marc Lavoie
It might help if the origin of the recipe was known. The only thing I
can think of, if its of middle-eastern origin is something also known as
"mountain ash", sort of purple strange but good stuff that can be
sprinkled on rice or anything else. It can usually be found in
middle-eastern food stores.
Marc Lavoie
Northern Telecom LTD
lav...@bnr.ca
"I have no opinion"
Michael Sierchio
Marc Lavoie <lav...@bnr.ca> writes:
Re: Sumac Seed
>It might help if the origin of the recipe was known. The only thing I
>can think of, if its of middle-eastern origin is something also known as
>"mountain ash", sort of purple strange but good stuff that can be
>sprinkled on rice or anything else. It can usually be found in
>middle-eastern food stores.
It is known in the Levant or Der Maghreb as "Zatar". It is the seed
of the sumac berry.
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| Michael Sierchio 1563 Solano Avenue, Suite 123 |
| ku...@netcom.com Berkeley, CA 94707-2116 |
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Ronald F. Feldstein
source which says they are equivalent. In the book "National Dishes
of our Peoples," written about the dishes of the ex-USSR, V. V. Poklebkin,
in listing the common spices of Azerbaidzhan, states the equivalence
"sumakh (barbaris)." If this is wrong from a botanical point of view,
why is this equivalence found so frequently in books? Is is that barberry
and "sumakh (whatever it is)" are very similar in taste?
According to my dictionary, both words were borrowed into English from
Arabic.
Wayne Hughes
>On the issue of barberry being equivalent to sumac, I found a second
>source which says they are equivalent. In the book "National Dishes
>of our Peoples," written about the dishes of the ex-USSR, V. V. Poklebkin,
Sumac is in the family _Anacardiaceae_.
Two different families, which is pretty far up in the hierarchy
of angiosperm plant classification.
>in listing the common spices of Azerbaidzhan, states the equivalence
>"sumakh (barbaris)." If this is wrong from a botanical point of view,
>why is this equivalence found so frequently in books? Is is that barberry
It is wrong from a botanical point of view, but this confusion in
common names certainly isn't the only one. It's the reason there's
a conventional scientific classification and nomenclature (and even
then there's often confusion, but not of this order).
So without scientific names here there's no way of knowing whether
the spice is from _Rhus_ (what we call sumac), or from
_Berberis_ (what we call barberry and others ? call sumach?)
There's been at least four requests that the recipe in
question be described. It'd be nice if the original poster
to whom all these helpful efforts are being addressed
were reading these responses and would post that recipe.
It might help us get some idea of what's going on.
Wayne
Christina Callihan
>zataar, zatar, etc. is the fruit of Rhus coriaria from the Mediterranean
>region. The genus is widespread (and yes it DOES include poison ivy and
>poiston oak, depending on your taxonomy). R. typhina of the
>Northeastern US is similar (Staghorn sumac), R. integrifolia, ovata and
>trilobata (all southwestern US), and other species have very similar
>fruits whcih likely could be used as substitutes (but DO make sure you
>have your ID's correct!).
Actually, poison ivy, poison oak and (I believe) poison sumac are in a
completely different genus, appropriately named _Toxicodendron_. I think
they're in the same family as the _Rhus_ species though. I've never tried
_R. coriara_, but I've sucked on lemonade berries plenty of times.
Those are the fruit of either _R. integrifolia_ or _R. ovata_ (the
other is known as sugarbush, and I keep getting the 2 confused :).
They are slightly sticky and very tangy, nice and refreshing on a hike!
Christina Callihan (c-c...@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu)
The wanna-be botanist who's taking a California plant ID course this
quarter......
katherine.e.fagan
>
> There's been at least four requests that the recipe in
> question be described. It'd be nice if the original poster
> to whom all these helpful efforts are being addressed
> were reading these responses and would post that recipe.
> It might help us get some idea of what's going on.
>
> Wayne
>
Thanks for all the interesting discussion on sumac seeds. In my original
post, I promised I would post the recipe. And so I will. I only get
around to reading the net every couple of days and the recipe is in
my friend's possesion. Since there seems to be some disagreement on
what sumac seeds are I thought I'd let the discussion die down,
give my friend a (long-distance) call, give her the condensed version
of the talk I saw here, get the recipe from her over the phone and
post it here along with a summary. I read here today that it might
be helpful to see the recipe in order to resolve the discussion ...
so, if I can get ahold of my friend tonight, you'll see the recipe
soon!
Thanks again,
Kathy
k.e....@aluxpo.att.com
PS : I only saw 2 requests. Maybe I'm missing some posts?
Barrie Lax
From: barri...@synapse.org (Barrie J. Lax Esq.)
RF<On the issue of barberry being equivalent to sumac, I found a second
RF<source which says they are equivalent. In the book "National Dishes
RF<of our Peoples," written about the dishes of the ex-USSR, V. V. Poklebkin,
RF<in listing the common spices of Azerbaidzhan, states the equivalence
RF<"sumakh (barbaris)." If this is wrong from a botanical point of view,
I found "Edible berry from a special variety of the Sumac Tree" . I
think you should concentrate on finding the relationship of this "sumac
tree" to Barberry. Barberry is a shrub with oblong red berries, sounds
not to much different from the sumac we see locally..no?
Bar.
---
. 1st 1.10b #300 . 1st does more by 9:00am than other readers do all day
Barrie Lax
From: barri...@Synapse.org (Barrie J. Lax Esq.)
MS<Re: Sumac Seed
MS<It is known in the Levant or Der Maghreb as "Zatar". It is the seed
MS<of the sumac berry.
I think you have made a slight error Michael. Sumac is known as Simac in
the Lebanon and with slight variations in spelling throughout the
Levant. Zatar is a spice mixture which contains Simac but also contains
Thyme, sometimes marjorum, salt and sesame seeds. It's wonderful baked
into Pita. I buy regular pita, coat with butter, sprinkle well with
zaatar and BBQ lightly. Gawd but that's good.
Simac is tart and refreshing, great sprinkled on rice Iranni style. Any
one interested should find a Lebanese or mid-eastern grocery ( there is
one in every good sized city ) and sample these two items. They are
inexpensive and worth experimenting with.
Bar.
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. 1st 1.10b #300 . Why go second class when 1st class is only $25?
katherine.e.fagan
she didn't have the SUMAC recipe with her. She has
promised to call back. She did reveal that it's a
chicken dish and also involves yogurt.
Coincidentally, I got a chance to peruse a Turkish cookbook
yesterday and saw reference to ... SUMAK. There was a
description under the heading "Special Turkish Spices"
and a recipe including the spice. So, here are both for
your reading pleasure! (All mistakes are mine.)
Sumak: this lentil-like fruit of the Sumak tree (or bush)
is enjoyed in Southern Anatolia as a spice. It gives the
dish a pleasant tart flavor. One can purchase the spice
in ground form in Turkish specialty shops.
Fried Liver (Arnavut Cigeri)
preparation time : 30 minutes, cooking time : 5 minutes
This dish owes its special tart-sour flavor to a spice which
is especially beloved in southern Turkey, Sumak. Prepared
in this manner, it is also suitable as an appetizer.
4-5 onions
salt
500 grams (~ 1 lb.) lamb or calf liver
100 grams (~ 1/2 cup) flour
4 tbsp. freshly chopped parsley
1 1/2 tsp. sumak
1 1/2 tsp. paprika
generous oil for frying
Peel the onions, halve and slice thinly. Sprinkle generously
with salt and let draw for around 10 minutes. Afterwards, press
firmly with the hands, rinse and let drain. Rinse the liver and
cut into small cubes. Mix the flour with salt to taste and toss
the liver therein to coat. Mix the parsley, sumak, paprika and
onions together. Heat the oil in a pan and fry the liver 4-5
minutes. The pan must be shaken frequently, otherwise the liver
may burn. With a skimmer, remove the liver and arrange on a
serving platter. Spread the onion-spice mixture on top.
Serves 4.
Without permission from "Turkish Cooking", editor Hubert Knich
Michael Sierchio
barri...@synapse.org (Barrie Lax) writes:
>MS<It is known in the Levant or Der Maghreb as "Zatar". It is the seed
>MS<of the sumac berry.
>
>I think you have made a slight error Michael. Sumac is known as Simac in
>the Lebanon and with slight variations in spelling throughout the
>Levant. Zatar is a spice mixture which contains Simac but also contains
yes, in Lebanon it's a mixture. In Morocco it's not.
Alun ap Rhisiart
hug...@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes) writes:>
<botanical discussion abbreviated to save bandwidth>
> It is wrong from a botanical point of view, but this confusion in
> common names certainly isn't the only one. It's the reason there's
> a conventional scientific classification and nomenclature (and even
> then there's often confusion, but not of this order).
>
> So without scientific names here there's no way of knowing whether
> the spice is from _Rhus_ (what we call sumac), or from
> _Berberis_ (what we call barberry and others ? call sumach?)
>
> There's been at least four requests that the recipe in
> question be described. It'd be nice if the original poster
> to whom all these helpful efforts are being addressed
> were reading these responses and would post that recipe.
> It might help us get some idea of what's going on.
>
> Wayne
Well, I'm not the original poster, but while we're waiting...
Sumac powder seems to be quite readily available here in the UK. It is
a black coarse powder tasting of lemon. It is mentioned several times in
my books of Middle Eastern cookery, which I'll dig out this weekend, but
meanwhile, go for something simple:
bake some potatoes (Maris Piper ideally)
slice open but not all the way through, add salt, butter, paprika,
cheese (swiss, or leicester), close up potato to allow heat to melt
cheese, into opening above cheese spread mayonaise, chopped almonds and
a sprinkling of sumac. That's what most of mine goes on.
--
***********************************
* Alun ap Rhisiart * | When I wrote this, only God |
* Animal Behaviour Research Group * | and I knew what it meant. |
* Oxford University * | Now, only God knows. |
* voll...@vax.ox.ac.uk *
***********************************
Gary Heston
> >A friend of mine has a recipe which calls for "sumac seed".
>
> There are several varieties of tree/bush known as "Sumac". There were a bunc
> of them alongside the grade school I attended. They produced big wads of
> seeds, but I *think* that at least one variety is toxic to humans.
Sure is. It's called, unsuprisingly, "poison sumac". Check any Boy
Scout handbook for identification information. Me, even though I'm
not allergic to the poisonus three (ivy, sumac, and oak), I'll pass
on including any type of sumac in any recipes.
Gary Heston, at home....
ga...@cdthq.uucp
Brad Hernlem
The poisonous variety has white berries, whereas the others are red. No
need to worry about being poisoned unless you cannot distinguish red
from white. :-)
Brad Hernlem (her...@chess.ncsu.EDU)
Brad Hernlem
beginning; I do not always read this group. In any case, I do not think
that the two are the same. Barberry is known as "Zereshk" in Iran and is
available as the dried berries. Sumac is known as "SumAq" (long "a", q
is a sound like "g" produced deep in the throat) in Iran and is
available as ground dried berries. The two are used quite differently
although they both are sour. SumAq is used as a condiment, while Zereshk
is generally cooked in with rice, etc.
Brad Hernlem (her...@chess.ncsu.EDU)