Raw eggs in tiramisu
sarah gray
yesterday, and we ordered tiramisu for dessert.
My friend said it was her favorite dessert, and I concurred.
We are getting together again this weekend, and I volunteered to make
it.
Most of the recipes I have found call for using the eggs raw. In the
ones that don't, they call for gently cooking the egg yolk mixture to
kill possible salmonella bacteria, but still call for the whipped raw
egg whites, which seems kind of pointless.
I have no desire to work with pasteurized eggs. Bleh.
I eat runny eggs all the time, and so does my daughter. The tiramisu,
however, will probably not be consumed all at once (but likely within a
day or two. anything with mascarpone will not last long around me.)
I know the likelihood of running across an egg with salmonella is very
very low; this is why I'm comfortable eating eggs undercooked.
I bought the best eggs I could find without befriending a reliable
chicken farmer. Do you guys think I should be worried about this?
I also realized that the mascarpone I bought has a sell by date of
today, and I'm not making the stuff until Friday. I'm pretty sure that
it will be ok (I keep my fridge very cold, and I have it in the back),
but I'm still planning on calling up the little Italian market I bought
it from and asking if there is anything they are willing to do for me
about it, as I cannot get back there until Saturday at the earliest, as
they are only open when I am working during the week(but I will be
complaining nicely, since they were otherwise very helpful and had
awesome deli meats that they let Ellie and I sample quite a few of
before we decided what to buy. And the cannolis. Oy, so good! :>)
Saerah
Giusi
news:Xns9A78E785BA31F...@207.115.17.102...
> Most of the recipes I have found call for using the eggs raw.
All the recipes should ask for raw eggs. Don't feed it to invalids, the
terribly old or the infants if you are worried.
The mascarpone should be fine really. Sell by doesn't mean anything for
when you must eat it. As long as it's been kept well, I cannot imagine that
it wouldn't be good for 10 days.
Nexis
"sarah gray" <anis...@oohay.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A78E785BA31F...@207.115.17.102...
I wouldn't, and don't, worry about it using raw eggs in tiramisu. My recipe does call
for whisking the egg yolks with some sugar over simmering water. But I have been
making this for years and have never had a problem.
The mascarpone should be fine. A sell by date is a point of reference, and doesn't
mean that it can't be used for a few days after. Smell it, it shouldn't smell sour or
vinegary, and then taste it. When did you buy it? If it was within the last couple
days, they should be happy to replace it for you. The tub I purchased on Saturday has
a sell by date in May.
kimberly
sarah gray
The problem is, I am making it Friday night, and can't get back to that
store until Saturday. I didn't want to open the container until I made
it because although I will eat things past their date, I don't like
openening them ahead of time, because I imagine that would just speed up
decay.
I bought it yesterday, the date on the package.
I have only used mascarpone a few times, so I don't know what the shelf
life is...some dairy products have a shelf life of a few days to a few
weeks, and those are the ones I tend to not use past their date.
Something like mascarpone has a longer shelf life, but I've only ever
used it well before the date or the day it "expired". It is such a
simple kind of cheese, that i was a bit worried. I know I've had cream
cheese and goat cheese go bad quickly, sometimes before the
"expiration".
Saerah
sarah gray
news:65tvlgF...@mid.individual.net:
> "sarah gray" <anis...@oohay.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:Xns9A78E785BA31F...@207.115.17.102...
>> Most of the recipes I have found call for using the eggs raw.
>> Saerah
>
> All the recipes should ask for raw eggs. Don't feed it to invalids,
> the terribly old or the infants if you are worried.
>
The recipe I got from the little grocery where I bought all the yummy
food had a recipe. I don't know Italian, but I imagine they would not
have failed to translate the part about cooking the eggs :>
I was doubtful about the espresso powder I ended up purchasing, but the
man who was helping me said it would taste better than the extra-strong
coffee I was going to use. And the idea of walking into a local coffee
joint and asking for 2 cups worth of espresso, and paying so much for
it, was not appealing (I don't have an espresso maker, and I am not
willing to buy one just for tiramisu, heh)
> The mascarpone should be fine really. Sell by doesn't mean anything
> for when you must eat it. As long as it's been kept well, I cannot
> imagine that it wouldn't be good for 10 days.
>
>
Thanks :)
Saerah
Dave Smith
>
>
> The recipe I got from the little grocery where I bought all the yummy
> food had a recipe. I don't know Italian, but I imagine they would not
> have failed to translate the part about cooking the eggs :>
>
> I was doubtful about the espresso powder I ended up purchasing, but the
> man who was helping me said it would taste better than the extra-strong
> coffee I was going to use. And the idea of walking into a local coffee
> joint and asking for 2 cups worth of espresso, and paying so much for
> it, was not appealing (I don't have an espresso maker, and I am not
> willing to buy one just for tiramisu, heh)
You can cook the eggs and sugar together in a double boiler to make a
Zabaglione, I prefer to use raw yolks and and whites, and have never had a
problem with it, but make sure to keep it cool.
I use espresso powder to make espresso coffee ice cream and it works fine.
It is just hard to find. My wife picked it up for me when she say it in a
store because she knew I had been looking for it.
ChattyCathy
>
<snipping>
>
> I bought the best eggs I could find without befriending a reliable
> chicken farmer. Do you guys think I should be worried about this?
<snipping>
I wouldn't worry about the eggs Saerah. FWIW, I use raw eggs to make mayo
all the time, (which I have kept in the fridge for up to a week) and it
hasn't killed us yet... and I don't think the mascarpone will be a problem
either.
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy
Monday is a lousy way to spend one seventh of your life.
sf
wrote:
>I was doubtful about the espresso powder I ended up purchasing, but the
>man who was helping me said it would taste better than the extra-strong
>coffee I was going to use.
It's a good substitute. My SIL uses espresso powder and like I said
in chat, hers is better than any commercial tiramisu I've eaten.
--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smile first
Dave Smith
> >I was doubtful about the espresso powder I ended up purchasing, but the
> >man who was helping me said it would taste better than the extra-strong
> >coffee I was going to use.
>
> It's a good substitute. My SIL uses espresso powder and like I said
> in chat, hers is better than any commercial tiramisu I've eaten.
While I use instant espresso powder in ice cream I use real espresso in
tiramisu.
I had a horrible tiramisu in a local sports bar restaurant last year.
Luckily it was a freebie, comped to my wife after her meal order was messed
up. I would have been upset if I had ordered it and paid for it. Everything
was artificial. First of all, it was made with a sponge cake base, which is
a viable substitute if it is a decent sponge cake. This was not. The filling
was made with pastry cream instead of marscapone and egg yolk. The big crime
was dousing it with artificial rum.
Sky
I agree with Cathy. However, I'd add that if someone has serious health
issues, especially anything related with the immune system, might want
to be wary and not consume raw eggs as a precaution.
Sky, who's no medical expert
--
Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice
Goomba38
> I also realized that the mascarpone I bought has a sell by date of
> today, and I'm not making the stuff until Friday. I'm pretty sure that
> it will be ok (I keep my fridge very cold, and I have it in the back),
> but I'm still planning on calling up the little Italian market I bought
> it from and asking if there is anything they are willing to do for me
> about it, as I cannot get back there until Saturday at the earliest, as
> they are only open when I am working during the week(but I will be
> complaining nicely, since they were otherwise very helpful and had
> awesome deli meats that they let Ellie and I sample quite a few of
> before we decided what to buy. And the cannolis. Oy, so good! :>)
>
> Saerah
Oh good grief. Seriously... you actually *think* things magically go bad
an hour after the "sell by" date? I didn't take you for such a ninny.
I can just imagine the eye rolls and jokes made at the Italian market
after *that* phone call. Use the cheese Friday and know it will be fine.
Tyler Florence has a KILLER Tiramisu recipe.
> http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_15489,00.html
ChattyCathy
>
> Oh good grief. Seriously... you actually *think* things magically go bad
> an hour after the "sell by" date? I didn't take you for such a ninny.
> I can just imagine the eye rolls and jokes made at the Italian market
> after *that* phone call. Use the cheese Friday and know it will be fine.
Goomba, you have such a way with words...
>
> Tyler Florence has a KILLER Tiramisu recipe.
Ahem, I thought that 'killing' anybody was what Saerah was hoping to avoid
;)
>
>> http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_15489,00.html
Looks pretty good, I have to admit...
Paul M. Cook
There are no raw eggs in tiramisu. You cook the egg yolks with sugar and
marsala wine to make a zabaglione. The yolks are fully cooked in the
process.
Paul
Paul M. Cook
"ChattyCathy" <cath...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:l3rKj.11165$Wf3....@newsfe16.ams2...
> On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:16:59 -0400, Goomba38 wrote:
>
>>
>> Oh good grief. Seriously... you actually *think* things magically go bad
>> an hour after the "sell by" date? I didn't take you for such a ninny.
>> I can just imagine the eye rolls and jokes made at the Italian market
>> after *that* phone call. Use the cheese Friday and know it will be fine.
>
> Goomba, you have such a way with words...
>>
>> Tyler Florence has a KILLER Tiramisu recipe.
>
> Ahem, I thought that 'killing' anybody was what Saerah was hoping to avoid
> ;)
>>
>>> http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_15489,00.html
>
> Looks pretty good, I have to admit...
I make that recipe every year on Thanksgiving and Christmas. It always
turns out great. I add very expensive French cognac to the zabaglione and a
touch to the whipped cream, Cheaper cognac like Hennessy doesn't work, it
has to be the really good stuff.
Paul
The Cook
wrote:
>We went out to dinner with a very good friend and her grandmother
Here is a recipe with cooked egg yolk.
* Exported from MasterCook *
Venetian Tirami-su
Recipe By :
Serving Size : 12 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Desserts
Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
6 egg yolks
60 grams sugar
1/4 cup wine, marsala -- sweet
380 grams mascarpone cheese
1 cup heavy cream -- * see note
1 cup coffee, expresso
3 tablespoons coffee liqueur (63 proof) -- * see note
36 savoiardi
3 tablespoons cocoa powder
Zabaglione: Beat egg yolks in top pan of double boiler until thick.
Place bowl over simmering water and while beating, gradually add
marasala and sugar. Continue beating until mixture is very thick.
Remove from heat, but continue beating until mixture has cooled, then
refrigerate.
Beat the mascarpone smooth, fold whipped cream into it, then fold in
the zabaglione.
Mix expresso and liquor together.
Line bottom of 9" square pan with half of the savoiardi: brush them
with the expresso. Place half of the zabaglione mixture over them.
Another layer of savoiardi, then add the remaining zabaglione. Dust
with Cocoa.
Refrigerate for at least 1 hour. Makes 8 - 12 servings.
NOTES : *Whipped into a soft peak stage
*Kaluaha
--
Susan N.
"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)
Julia Altshuler
>
> I make that recipe every year on Thanksgiving and Christmas. It always
> turns out great. I add very expensive French cognac to the zabaglione and a
> touch to the whipped cream, Cheaper cognac like Hennessy doesn't work, it
> has to be the really good stuff.
What sort of cognac do you like? I need a name I can remember when I go
to the store.
--Lia
Dave Smith
>
> There are no raw eggs in tiramisu. You cook the egg yolks with sugar and
> marsala wine to make a zabaglione. The yolks are fully cooked in the
> process.
Not always. There is no single recipe for tiiramisu. Some of them use
zabaglione and others use raw eggs. I use raw eggs.
Paul M. Cook
"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:47FA865B...@sympatico.ca...
Blech!!! Sounds positively dreadful especially when a zabaglione is so
easy. Who wants to taste slimy egg yolks in a dessert?
Paul
Paul M. Cook
"Julia Altshuler" <jalts...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:f9ednbmn49ns-Wfa...@comcast.com...
I usually keep a bottle of Pierre Ferrand Reserve around. It's not the most
expensive they make but at 75 bucks or so a bottle it is IMO the best for
the money. Their Ancestrale is hard to find and around 400 bucks a bottle
but I can make a bottle last a year and I did use some in tiramisu once and
it was heavenly. The Reserve is no slouch and it just explodes in aroma and
this makes for a fabulous tiramisu. The nose is caramel, honey, apple and
vanilla. I have tried Courvoisier and Hennessy and while good cognacs they
are inferior compared to the PF Reserve. I prefer the PF line to Remy
Martin as well.
Paul
Julia Altshuler
Thanks. We go through cognac even more slowly than you do, so I'm not
shopping for it any time soon, but I'll keep Pierre Ferrand in mind the
next time I need some.
--Lia
Steve Pope
>Paul M. Cook wrote:
>> I usually keep a bottle of Pierre Ferrand Reserve around. It's not the most
>> expensive they make but at 75 bucks or so a bottle it is IMO the best for
>> the money.
>Thanks. We go through cognac even more slowly than you do, so I'm not
>shopping for it any time soon, but I'll keep Pierre Ferrand in mind the
>next time I need some.
I concur with the Pierre Ferrand recommendation. Actually, most
of the unblended, single-batch Cognacs are good, compared to
any of the well-known blends. There just aren't many of them brought
in, with most retailers only having one or two.
Although not a Cognac, the Germain Robard brandy (any variety) is also
good and I think it would work well in recipes. The price of the
most basic one should be around $40.
Steve
Dave Smith
>
> > Not always. There is no single recipe for tiiramisu. Some of them use
> > zabaglione and others use raw eggs. I use raw eggs.
> >
>
> Blech!!! Sounds positively dreadful especially when a zabaglione is so
> easy. Who wants to taste slimy egg yolks in a dessert?
>
They aren't slimy when they are whipped in with marscapone, sugar and the
booze. Having done it with zabalione and with raw eggs, I prefer it with the
raw eggs. And the raw whites are folded into the mixture to give it a nice airy
texture.
Julia Altshuler
>
> Although not a Cognac, the Germain Robard brandy (any variety) is also
> good and I think it would work well in recipes. The price of the
> most basic one should be around $40.
I googled on "Germain Robard" and got one hit. It's in a post of yours
from June of last year. Surely if the stuff exists, it exists on
someone's webpage. I'm not trying to be one of those obnoxious people
who corrects other people's posts. I'm trying to find information on
the brandy, maybe see what a bottle looks like or see who sells it.
Could the spelling be wrong? Google suggested "Germain Rivard," but he
turns out to be a veterinarian, and "Germain Rivard brandy" yields no hits.
--Lia
Steve Pope
>Steve Pope wrote:
>> Although not a Cognac, the Germain Robard brandy (any variety) is also
>> good
>I googled on "Germain Robard" and got one hit. It's in a post of yours
>from June of last year. Surely if the stuff exists, it exists on
>someone's webpage.
Sorry. It's "Germain-Robin". Not sure why I keep mispelling that one.
Steve
Robert
egg every morning in a glass of milk and honey and have done so every
day to this very day. I have never been horribly ill.
Make your desert in peace after all the Italians have been eating this
desert for centuries.
Julia Altshuler
>
> Sorry. It's "Germain-Robin". Not sure why I keep mispelling that one.
No problem. I've googled and am happy now.
--Lia
Paul M. Cook
Raw whites? Oh my. I use whipped cream.
Paul
Paul M. Cook
"Steve Pope" <spo...@speedymail.org> wrote in message
news:fte9rb$7vb$1...@blue.rahul.net...
Too much brandy?
Paul
sarah gray
news:Q8mdnavJPJpwp2fa...@comcast.com:
> sarah gray wrote:
>
>> I also realized that the mascarpone I bought has a sell by date of
>> today, and I'm not making the stuff until Friday. I'm pretty sure
>> that it will be ok (I keep my fridge very cold, and I have it in the
>> back), but I'm still planning on calling up the little Italian market
>> I bought it from and asking if there is anything they are willing to
>> do for me about it, as I cannot get back there until Saturday at the
>> earliest, as they are only open when I am working during the week(but
>> I will be complaining nicely, since they were otherwise very helpful
>> and had awesome deli meats that they let Ellie and I sample quite a
>> few of before we decided what to buy. And the cannolis. Oy, so good!
>> :>)
>>
>> Saerah
>
> Oh good grief. Seriously... you actually *think* things magically go
> bad an hour after the "sell by" date? I didn't take you for such a
> ninny. I can just imagine the eye rolls and jokes made at the Italian
> market after *that* phone call. Use the cheese Friday and know it will
> be fine.
>
No, I don't. I use stuff after the sell by date all the time. My
experience with mascarpone is limited, however, which is why I mentioned
it.
I *did* call the store, and before I even said anything other than "the
mascarpone I bought yesterday had yesterday's date on it", they were
offering a refund. I said that that was not necessary, but that they
should check the rest of the packages in the case, as they might all be
past their date. Like I said, I cannot get back to that store until
after I make the stuff anyhow; now that I think of it, I would feel like
a tool for asking for a refund for something I used and enjoyed. which
is why I asked the question here in the first place.
> Tyler Florence has a KILLER Tiramisu recipe.
>
>> http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_
15489,00.h
>> tml
Thanks, but I'm using the one I got from the market (which is identical
to a bunch of others I found, with the exeption that I'm adding a shot
of congac to the espresso, because I like the little kick of alcohol in
my tiramisu.)
Plus, it makes me happy to see the recipe in Italian at the top of the
page. I'm weird like that.
Servire freddo!
Saerah
(anticipating layers of creamy awesomeness come Saturday)
Dave Smith
>
> > They aren't slimy when they are whipped in with marscapone, sugar and the
> > booze. Having done it with zabalione and with raw eggs, I prefer it with
> > the
> > raw eggs. And the raw whites are folded into the mixture to give it a
> > nice airy
> > texture.
> >
>
> Raw whites? Oh my. I use whipped cream.
Yep.... fold in the beaten egg whites and the whipped cream.
sarah gray
news:wRsKj.3215$BT1.3030@trnddc04:
So the egg whites get magically cooked when you whip them?
:)
most of the recipes I have seen do not call for making a zabaglione (but
I think I need to make that sometime to share with my friend too. She's
one of the few women I know who admits to enjoying food as much as me
:>)
Saerah
sarah gray
news:47FAAFA0...@dslextreme.com:
> Well I use raw eggs in Caesar Salad and many other dishes. I have a
> raw egg every morning in a glass of milk and honey and have done so
> every day to this very day. I have never been horribly ill.
> Make your desert in peace after all the Italians have been eating this
> desert for centuries.
>
From what I understand this dessert was invented a few years before I was
born.
No matter, it's still my favorite.
Saerah
sarah gray
news:fte32p$uje$1...@blue.rahul.net:
I bought the cheaper stuff, but I wanted something more "winy" than rum.
I would never drink the rest of the bottle of a good cognac, though, so
I was limited to what I could buy in an airplane bottle :>
Saerah
(picky about what kinds of spirits her stomach can tolerate straight)
sf
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>sf wrote:
>
>> >I was doubtful about the espresso powder I ended up purchasing, but the
>> >man who was helping me said it would taste better than the extra-strong
>> >coffee I was going to use.
>>
>> It's a good substitute. My SIL uses espresso powder and like I said
>> in chat, hers is better than any commercial tiramisu I've eaten.
>
>While I use instant espresso powder in ice cream I use real espresso in
>tiramisu.
>
>I had a horrible tiramisu in a local sports bar restaurant last year.
>Luckily it was a freebie, comped to my wife after her meal order was messed
>up. I would have been upset if I had ordered it and paid for it. Everything
>was artificial. First of all, it was made with a sponge cake base, which is
>a viable substitute if it is a decent sponge cake. This was not. The filling
>was made with pastry cream instead of marscapone and egg yolk. The big crime
>was dousing it with artificial rum.
It sounds perfectly awful!
--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smile first
sarah gray
I think you are confusing him, Dave.
:)
Saerah
(not an expert, but zabaglione and whipped cream is not the same as
tiramisu, no?. though I bet it tastes damn good.)
Paul M. Cook
> Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in
> news:47FAD7A4...@sympatico.ca:
>
>> "Paul M. Cook" wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > They aren't slimy when they are whipped in with marscapone, sugar
>>> > and the booze. Having done it with zabalione and with raw eggs, I
>>> > prefer it with the
>>> > raw eggs. And the raw whites are folded into the mixture to give
>>> > it a nice airy
>>> > texture.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Raw whites? Oh my. I use whipped cream.
>>
>> Yep.... fold in the beaten egg whites and the whipped cream.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I think you are confusing him, Dave.
>
Not confused, just grossed out. Raw eggs don't float my boat.
> :)
>
> Saerah
> (not an expert, but zabaglione and whipped cream is not the same as
> tiramisu, no?. though I bet it tastes damn good.)
There really is no one way to make tiramisu. Zabaglione and whipped cream
are the more common ingredients that you will come across. Tiramisu simply
means "pick me up" in Italian and there are more ways to make it than you
can count. Some don't even use cake, they use bread. Raw eggs are lovely
with peas and pasta and ham but I don't care for them cold in a dessert.
Geerooooossssssss! Blech.
But it's all good raw eggs not withstanding. The Tyler Florence recipe is
outstanding, however - my personal favorite. But if you are so terrified of
raw eggs why on Earth would you even consider anything else? A zabaglione
takes less than 5 minutes to make and all you need is a pan of boiling
water, a sauce pan and a whisk. It's a very versatile crème, you can pour
it over ice cream too. Layer it on puff pastry with some fresh berries and
you have Napoleons.
Paul
Paul M. Cook
It never goes bad after being opened, that's the good part of spending all
that money.
Paul
Paul M. Cook
Oh, aren't you sooooo clever? But I never use egg whites and never said I
did. Just the yolks in the zabaglione. The eggs whites just magically get
used in an omelet the next day or just magically get made into a meringue or
!POOF! they turn into waffles. Magic!
> :)
>
> most of the recipes I have seen do not call for making a zabaglione (but
> I think I need to make that sometime to share with my friend too. She's
> one of the few women I know who admits to enjoying food as much as me
> :>)
Most of the recipes I have seen call for making zabaglioni. And again, for
somebody so scared of raw eggs you sure like to live dangerously.
Paul
sarah gray
I'm not terrified of raw eggs. I eat my eggs runny, as I stated. I've
never had anything with raw eggs that sat (albeit refrigerated) for any
length of time, though.
the egg whites are raw; I see no point in cookign yolks, when if the
eggs *are* contaminated, the whites will have the same microorganisms.
Saerah
sarah gray
>
>
> Most of the recipes I have seen call for making zabaglioni. And
> again, for somebody so scared of raw eggs you sure like to live
> dangerously.
Most of the recipes *I* have seen call for raw eggs. guess we're doing
different searches :)
Saerah
Goomba38
I've only seen good recipes with zabaglione (which as previously stated
is cooked, made with marsala not cognac) and the Tyler Florence recipe
uses rum in espresso.
Can you post your recipe that uses raw eggs?
Paul M. Cook
Awfully opinionated for a beginner, eh? But have fun, at least you're doing
and trying.
Paul
Paul M. Cook
"Goomba38" <Goom...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:VamdnXzyhJ6nbWfa...@comcast.com...
I use sweet marsala and cognac. I add the cognac when the zabaglione has
cooled so as to not cook off the aroma. 1 teaspoon is all you need and 1
teaspoon in the whipped cream. Dark rum is delightful too, so is Kahlua, I
have had it with a touch of Triple Sec which is great - it is a dessert you
can really have fun with. There is not at all a "classic" recipe that I am
aware of. It's probably the easiest and most impressive dessert you can
make - everyone just loves it.
Paul
sarah gray
I am always opinionated , even when I'm wrong (not that I'm foten
willing to admit it!)
Saerah
sarah gray
news:VamdnXzyhJ6nbWfa...@comcast.com:
http://www.heavenlytiramisu.com/basic.htm
http://italian-cooking-
techniques.suite101.com/article.cfm/recipe_tiramisu
the recipe I am using is similar in proportion to:
http://home.comcast.net/~jankemi/recipe/tiramisu.html,
but the one I am using does not call for any alcohol (though I am using
a bit)
I have realized that I was also searching for recipes using savoiardi,
not sponge cake, so that might have skewed the results. I like doing
things the right way (at least the first time I make them)
How do you know if something is a "good" recipe unless you make it?
:)
Saerah
Paul M. Cook
This is not always true. A smart person learns from their mistakes, a wise
person learns from someone else's mistakes. I looked over the recipes you
cited. I am being truthful here, you will like Tyler Florence's recipe
much, much better. The ones you cited would be OK, just nothing special.
And I've made this dessert for many years and tried many recipes.
Paul
> Saerah
>
Giusi
news:eOvKj.906$NM.367@trnddc01...
>
> "Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:47FA865B...@sympatico.ca...
>> "Paul M. Cook" wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> There are no raw eggs in tiramisu. You cook the egg yolks with sugar
>>> and
>>> marsala wine to make a zabaglione. The yolks are fully cooked in the
>>> process.
>>
>> zabaglione and others use raw eggs. I use raw eggs.
>>
>
> Blech!!! Sounds positively dreadful especially when a zabaglione is so
> easy. Who wants to taste slimy egg yolks in a dessert?
How silly you are! What Italian wants to make a dessert that tastes like
zabaglione that isn't zabaglione? We gat both zabaglione and tiramisu
foisted on us often enough to wish that the two remain different at least.
Giusi
>
> "sarah gray" <anis...@oohay.com> wrote in message There are no raw eggs
> zabaglione. The yolks are fully cooked in the process.
>
I would like very much for you to find a single Italian recipe for tiramisu
which is cooked whether as zabaglione or any other way.
ricetta tiramisu will get you a list of recipes and you don't need to read
Italian to see they aren't boozey and they aren't cooked.
Paul M. Cook
"Giusi" <decob...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:660rp8F...@mid.individual.net...
I'm sure there are a few. I mean statistically the odds are in my favor. I
just do not like the taste of raw eggs in a non-savory dish. And the
measure of any recipe is how much people like it. And so far no complaints.
It may not be purely Italian but it sure is good and makes people happy.
You Italiano are lucky, most Americans have never even heard of tiramisu.
Paul
Paul M. Cook
> "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:wRsKj.3215$BT1.3030@trnddc04...
>>
>> "sarah gray" <anis...@oohay.com> wrote in message There are no raw eggs
>> in tiramisu. You cook the egg yolks with sugar and marsala wine to make
>> a zabaglione. The yolks are fully cooked in the process.
>>
>> Paul
>
> I would like very much for you to find a single Italian recipe for
> tiramisu which is cooked whether as zabaglione or any other way.
I don't care. I have found plenty of recipes that taste really good.
Whether or not it is "true" Italiani means nothing to me. I defy you to
find one recipe that Italians would all agree is "proper" tiramisu anyway.
> ricetta tiramisu will get you a list of recipes and you don't need to read
> Italian to see they aren't boozey and they aren't cooked.
I do not like raw eggs with sugar, call the FBI or kill me. I do love a
little fine cognac in my tiramisu and so does everyone I make it for.
Therefore I am not likely to try any of your recipes simply because I don't
find them appealing to my taste. If you want to elevate a simple little
commoners cake to a level of high snobbery, be my guest. But I'll make what
tastes good to me and if you would find it unappealing is no concern to me.
I've had "genuine" tiramisu and while pleasant was also rather flat and
boring.
Food is like music, everyone understands what they like and you don't need
to explain it. Done right it brings people together and lets everyone share
in the joys of life. To try to turn it into some elite and mystical cult to
be understood only by the annointed and high priests is just silly and
defeats the whole concept.
And I love peanut butter in Pad Thai - so shoot me.
Paul
Goomba38
> http://www.heavenlytiramisu.com/basic.htm
> http://italian-cooking-
> techniques.suite101.com/article.cfm/recipe_tiramisu
> the recipe I am using is similar in proportion to:
> http://home.comcast.net/~jankemi/recipe/tiramisu.html,
>
> but the one I am using does not call for any alcohol (though I am using
> a bit)
> I have realized that I was also searching for recipes using savoiardi,
> not sponge cake, so that might have skewed the results. I like doing
> things the right way (at least the first time I make them)
> How do you know if something is a "good" recipe unless you make it?
> :)
> Saerah
>
Wow.. I've never seen so many recipes using the raw eggs before! How
funny. All the recipes I've used (Tyler's being my fave) called for the
cooking and the savoiardi lady fingers. Sponge cake is way too sweet
(IMNSHO) for this.
Paul M. Cook
Tyler's recipe does not come with a warning that it is potentially lethal to
young children and senior citizens. I have had salmonella poisoning and
trust me, death would have been a mercy.
Paul
Giusi
--
http://www.judithgreenwood.com
> "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:KPHKj.19300$Ah1.16477@trnddc08...
>>
>> "Giusi" <decob...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> I would like very much for you to find a single Italian recipe for
>>> tiramisu which is cooked whether as zabaglione or any other way.
>>
>> I don't care. I have found plenty of recipes that taste really good.
>> Whether or not it is "true" Italiani means nothing to me.
I don't care either what you eat, and tiramisu is sort of boring anyway.
BUT, you came into this thread stating in an expert manner that tiramisu is
cooked and consists of zabaglione and I knew that wasn't true. It's the
go-to recipe here for people who don't cook.
>> I do not like raw eggs with sugar, call the FBI or kill me. I do love a
>> little fine cognac in my tiramisu and so does everyone I make it for.
Fine and it sounds more interesting than tiramisu, so name it something
different maybe. Something that reflects the creamy, boozey reality you
make.
Just don't categorically state that tiramisu is always cooked and contains
booze because it isn't and doesn't. It contains coffee and cocoa powder and
therefore caffeine and picks you up.
>> commoners cake to a level of high snobbery, be my guest.
Not I, dear sir. Thing is it is a small Italian invention of not so long
ago and there is a recipe. If you change it you may rename it.
cult to be understood only by the annointed and high priests is just silly
and
>> defeats the whole concept.
That is so not me that it would be hard to get farther away. I constantly
teach that all cooking is a collection of more or fewer simple steps and
anyone can learn to do it. But as a vigorous defender of Slow Food and
Italian cuisine, I don't like to see people make claims that are untrue or
to alter out of recognition genuine Italian food unless they rename it.
Paul M. Cook
>
>
> --
> http://www.judithgreenwood.com
>> "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
>> news:KPHKj.19300$Ah1.16477@trnddc08...
>>>
>>> "Giusi" <decob...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> I would like very much for you to find a single Italian recipe for
>>>> tiramisu which is cooked whether as zabaglione or any other way.
>>>
>>> I don't care. I have found plenty of recipes that taste really good.
>>> Whether or not it is "true" Italiani means nothing to me.
>
> I don't care either what you eat, and tiramisu is sort of boring anyway.
> BUT, you came into this thread stating in an expert manner that tiramisu
> is cooked and consists of zabaglione and I knew that wasn't true. It's
> the go-to recipe here for people who don't cook.
>
>>> I do not like raw eggs with sugar, call the FBI or kill me. I do love a
>>> little fine cognac in my tiramisu and so does everyone I make it for.
>
> Fine and it sounds more interesting than tiramisu, so name it something
> different maybe. Something that reflects the creamy, boozey reality you
> make.
Until you try it you cannot judge. 2 teaspoons of cognac in a dessert that
serves 8 generously is hardly "boozy." I am after the aroma, too much
cognac would ruin the dish. I am after just the subtle aroma. I am sure
you'd love it though something tells me you would sooner die first.
> Just don't categorically state that tiramisu is always cooked and contains
> booze because it isn't and doesn't. It contains coffee and cocoa powder
> and
Dear, I never did. I said there are more ways to make it than you can
count. I had it made by a traditional Italian family and quite frankly they
could keep it. I found it about as tasty as a Twinkie.
> therefore caffeine and picks you up.
>
>>> commoners cake to a level of high snobbery, be my guest.
>
> Not I, dear sir. Thing is it is a small Italian invention of not so long
> ago and there is a recipe. If you change it you may rename it.
There must be 10,000 cioppino recipes. Do we give each a different name?
Food snobbery is for dilettantes.
> cult to be understood only by the annointed and high priests is just
> silly and
>>> defeats the whole concept.
>
> That is so not me that it would be hard to get farther away. I constantly
> teach that all cooking is a collection of more or fewer simple steps and
> anyone can learn to do it. But as a vigorous defender of Slow Food and
> Italian cuisine, I don't like to see people make claims that are untrue or
> to alter out of recognition genuine Italian food unless they rename it.
>
OK, fine. All Italians are in agreement on what a "real" tiramisu is.
Which is why they have many hundreds of recipes. </sarcasm>
You are a dilettante, my dear.
Paul
Dave Smith
I have seen and used recipes calling for raw eggs and I have seen and used
recipes with cooked. I was curious about the claim that most used cooked
so I did a quick search, and the first few results called for raw.
Dave Smith
>
>
> I'm sure there are a few. I mean statistically the odds are in my favor. I
> just do not like the taste of raw eggs in a non-savory dish. And the
> measure of any recipe is how much people like it. And so far no complaints.
> It may not be purely Italian but it sure is good and makes people happy.
> You Italiano are lucky, most Americans have never even heard of tiramisu.
Maybe it is time to admit that you are just squeamish about raw eggs. A lot of
people are, which is why there are some recipes that have been bastardized to
used cooked yolks. Raw egg mixed with dairy products is often very good, like
egg nog. Egg yolk is one of those things that tends to lose its rich flavour
when cooked, and the more it is cooked the more flavour is lost.
Paul M. Cook
I can taste raw eggs in sweet dishes. Ice cream is sometimes made with raw
eggs. I can taste it in there too. It is not squeamishnes, it is the
taste. I like raw eggs in many savory dishes. Pasta with ham, onions,
peas, raw srambled eggs and parmesan is great. I love a good Caesar salad
with raw eggs in the dressing. I just don't like it with sweet, though I
love eggs over medium on my pancakes with syrup. Raw eggs have a
distinctive gamey and metalic taste which I find offensive. I cannot stand
some Japanese food which is served with raw eggs. A nice zabaglione is
heaven, being very light, sweet and rich. Hardly a "bastardization." More
like delicious.
Paul
sarah gray
Zabaglione is awesome. But it is not tiramisu, as Giusi has already
pointed out.
Saerah
sarah gray
Many things are "potentially lethal". Every time you get into a car,
youa re risking death. I, myself, was slightly concerned about making
something with raw eggs that was going to sit overnight in the fridge.
Undercooked eggs in general don't faze me, though.
The odds that an egg has the salmonella bacteria in it is 1 in 20,000 or
so. So you have better odds than I of not getting sick (assuming you
were poisoned by an undercooked egg.)
I serve my daughter runny eggs all the time, and she's fine. She eats
sushi and rare hamburgers too. I guess you're going to call CPS on me,
huh?
:)
Saerah
Wayne Boatwright
Eggactly!
--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Tuesday, 04(IV)/08(VIII)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
6wks 5dys 5hrs
-------------------------------------------
'But I am the Doctor. Check my
hearts. '--Tom Baker as the Doctor
-------------------------------------------
Paul M. Cook
Throughout this whole banter the point I was making is raw eggs just do not
taste good and sweetened raw eggs to me are hideous. And I did a quick
search on tiramisu and the first few sites I visited all described the
"original" recipe as using zabaglione.
I just think it taste a whole lot better than I can imagine it with raw
eggs. That's all. YMMV.
I eat raw eggs all the time, just in savory dishes.
Paul
Paul M. Cook
Not according to the sites I checked out. They all said the original recipe
sued zabaglione. Just Google titamisu and look at the first page of links.
rom Wiki on down they say zabaglione. There is even some argument that
tiramisu was developed to proviode a little snack for prostitutes in between
"service" calls. It's all there, have a look.
Here's just one:
http://www.heavenlytiramisu.com/whatisit.htm
from that site:
"The original recipe called for custard (zabaglione) and only recently has
Mascarpone cheese been substituted. The basic ingredients are eggs,
mascarpone cheese, ladyfingers, cream, espresso coffee, liquor -- brandy,
marsala, rum are some of the spirits used -- a little bit of sugar, and
cocoa or shaved chocolate."
So there ya go. I had to really look to ind recipes with raw eggs. And the
ones I did find were lacking in the liquor which is a vital ingredient. It
would not at all be the same without rum or cognac.
Paul
Dave Smith
>
>
> > Zabaglione is awesome. But it is not tiramisu, as Giusi has already
> > pointed out.
>
> Not according to the sites I checked out. They all said the original recipe
> sued zabaglione. Just Google titamisu and look at the first page of links.
> rom Wiki on down they say zabaglione. There is even some argument that
> tiramisu was developed to proviode a little snack for prostitutes in between
> "service" calls. It's all there, have a look.
When you said that they never us raw eggs I googled "recipe tiramisu" and the
first bunch of recipes I came across used raw eggs.
Paul M. Cook
I Googled "tiramisu" and found them after some work. I did notice the
goddess Lydia Bastianich's recipe is made as you describe. I'll pass on it
nonetheless. But the many cites that come up all seem to be in agreement.
And oddly enough, they say marscarpone cheese was not part of the original
dish. So we've all been making and or eating sham tiramisu - fake - not
"the real thing."
Shame on us all.
Paul
Dave Smith
>
> >>
> >> Not according to the sites I checked out. They all said the original
> >> recipe
> >> sued zabaglione. Just Google titamisu and look at the first page of
> >> links.
> >> rom Wiki on down they say zabaglione. There is even some argument that
> >> tiramisu was developed to proviode a little snack for prostitutes in
> >> between
> >> "service" calls. It's all there, have a look.
> >
> > When you said that they never us raw eggs I googled "recipe tiramisu" and
> > the
> > first bunch of recipes I came across used raw eggs.
>
> I Googled "tiramisu" and found them after some work. I did notice the
> goddess Lydia Bastianich's recipe is made as you describe.
That is curious because I just tried it again with just the word tiramisu. The
top listing was wikopedia and the second on was Tiramisu Heaven in Your Mouth
(http://www.heavenlytiramisu.com/) and there was a link to recipes; basic,
variety, healthy and tiramisu cake. I clicked on Basic and the first 6 recipes
all use recipe. It wasn't until number 7 that used eggs cooked with sugar in a
double boiler. That is followed by three more with raw eggs and then one with
cooked. That one is Emiral Lagasses, which I have tried, and it is pretty good.
> I'll pass on it
> nonetheless. But the many cites that come up all seem to be in agreement.
> And oddly enough, they say marscarpone cheese was not part of the original
> dish. So we've all been making and or eating sham tiramisu - fake - not
> "the real thing."
In other words, the one article says that. Whatever.
Paul M. Cook
It's *all* tiramisu. I bet they have more ways than those 2 to make it in
Italy. If you limit yourself to something that appeals to your own snobbery
you miss out on an awful lot of great stuff. That's my point. I run into
this all the time with fussy eaters and it is annoying.
>
>> I'll pass on it
>> nonetheless. But the many cites that come up all seem to be in
>> agreement.
>> And oddly enough, they say marscarpone cheese was not part of the
>> original
>> dish. So we've all been making and or eating sham tiramisu - fake - not
>> "the real thing."
>
> In other words, the one article says that. Whatever.
It just comes down to this: to talk about "real" versus "bastardization" as
was used by one poster, is just nonsense. You are every bit as likely to
find it made both ways in Italy I suspect. Good enough for them, good
enough for me. I always think people who have to be such purists that they
will label a recipe as "genuine" are just posturing for effect. I mean
where do you draw the line, served round, square, in a wine glass? It's all
nonsense.
I am thinking tonight I will make an "authentic" chili.
Paul
Dave Smith
>
> It's *all* tiramisu. I bet they have more ways than those 2 to make it in
> Italy. If you limit yourself to something that appeals to your own snobbery
> you miss out on an awful lot of great stuff. That's my point. I run into
> this all the time with fussy eaters and it is annoying.
>
WTF??? I said a long time ago that there are a lot of different recipes fro
tiramisu, and that some call for raw eggs and some call for the yolks to be
cooked. I also said that I have done it both ways. Weren't you the one who
claimed that they never use raw eggs? It has nothing to do with snobbery.
Having tried it both ways, I prefer it with raw.
You also claimed that it took a lot of searching to find recipes for that called
for raw eggs, but when I used Google to search for tiramisu recipes I had the
exact opposite results. It was more common to find recipes calling for raw.
> It just comes down to this: to talk about "real" versus "bastardization" as
> was used by one poster, is just nonsense.
About as bastardized as recipes for Trifle, or stew, or rice pudding, or cole
slaw......
Paul M. Cook
> "Paul M. Cook" wrote:
>
>>
>> It's *all* tiramisu. I bet they have more ways than those 2 to make it
>> in
>> Italy. If you limit yourself to something that appeals to your own
>> snobbery
>> you miss out on an awful lot of great stuff. That's my point. I run
>> into
>> this all the time with fussy eaters and it is annoying.
>>
>
> WTF??? I said a long time ago that there are a lot of different recipes
> fro
> tiramisu, and that some call for raw eggs and some call for the yolks to
> be
> cooked. I also said that I have done it both ways. Weren't you the one who
> claimed that they never use raw eggs? It has nothing to do with
> snobbery.
> Having tried it both ways, I prefer it with raw.
>
Speaking in general, not to you specifically. Yes, I actually was unaware
of the raw egg recipes until now. There is plenty of snobbery from some,
however who would lay claims to vast and exclusive expertise despite the
lack of performance in this area. It's the same reaction I have with chili
heads, BBQ freaks, coffee nuts, wine snobs etc. Bunch of bozos all of them.
> You also claimed that it took a lot of searching to find recipes for that
> called
> for raw eggs, but when I used Google to search for tiramisu recipes I had
> the
> exact opposite results. It was more common to find recipes calling for
> raw.
It did, I had to look through several recipes before I found one that was
made that way. And when I was starting to make this dessert back, I dunno,
1998 or so, I tried quite a few recipes that all used zabaglione and never
once saw one that used raw eggs. I stopped looking when I found Tyler's
recipe which is just so good I see no reason to make anything else. That's
my story and I'm sticking to it.
>
>> It just comes down to this: to talk about "real" versus "bastardization"
>> as
>> was used by one poster, is just nonsense.
>
> About as bastardized as recipes for Trifle, or stew, or rice pudding, or
> cole
> slaw......
Yes, indeed but that was the word a colorful poster used to describe the
recipe I like. That person feels that it is some crime of food crime to
expropriate the divine word tiramisu to describe what can only be hideous
slop not blessed by the food Nazis. Never mind it is at worst a classical
form of the dessert, containing all the original ingredients and one any
Italian would recognize and even love.
It just isn't tiramisu - damn it!!!
Paul
blake murphy
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> It just comes down to this: to talk about "real" versus "bastardization" as
>> was used by one poster, is just nonsense.
>
>About as bastardized as recipes for Trifle, or stew, or rice pudding, or cole
>slaw......
>
recipes for cole slaw calling for raisins or pineapple have definitely
been bastardized and are not in accordance with god's great plan.
your pal,
blake
Dave Smith
> recipes for cole slaw calling for raisins or pineapple have definitely
> been bastardized and are not in accordance with god's great plan.
>
I haven't been to a regular church service in 40 odd years. I must have missed the
sermon about God's great plan for cole slaw.
blake murphy
they are reserved for the church elders.
your pal,
blake