Getting bubbles in my garlic infused olive oil.
JW
She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
countertop. The first time I tried this, it worked well. Great flavor.
After I used up all the garlic on different meals, I decided to make
more oil. This time however, I noticed small air bubbles rising from
the bottom of the jar. As I didn't notice this the first time I made
it, I wasn't sure what I should do. Fresh garlic, fresh oil, clean
jar. I repeated everything step exactly. My friend is on vacation and
is unable to help. I wonder if one of you kind people could give me an
answer. Are the bubbles air, escaping the garlic, or something more
ominous? Any response welcome.
Giusi
news:6ekef45enkf681qpu...@4ax.com...
The whole enterprise is ominous, bubbles or not. Look it up on the various
preserving websites. Oil preservation is not a home game.
Nancy2
> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
You and your friend could die from botulism, infusing oil like this
without refrigeration. Do some research, fergoodness'sakes.
It's best to buy already-flavored olive oil, which has been prepared
properly for safety, or just add minced garlic when you're ready to
make the dish.
N.
Sqwertz
> On Oct 16, 9:38 am, JW <jwfil...@mts.net> wrote:
>> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
>> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
>> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
>
>
> You and your friend could die from botulism, infusing oil like this
> without refrigeration. Do some research, fergoodness'sakes.
I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites
warn you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork. But
how often does it happen?
-sw
rossr...@forteinc.com
Using garlic cloves to infuse olive oil while the mixture is sitting
on a countertop is playing botulism roulette.
Check out http://tinyurl.com/4tmk64 or Google 'garlic in oil' and read
the information from *reliable* sources such as University Extensions.
Ross.
Giusi
The governmental agencies have been working for over 75 years so that it
will never happen, but it does. Really, why try it when the price if you
are wrong is death?
Sheldon
Those bubbles are the by product of botulism thriving and multiplying.
Gloria P
How often should it happen? You only die once.
gloria p
Melba's Jammin'
Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compst> wrote:
It happens rarely.
However, when botulism poisoning strikes, it's nasty, nasty, nasty.
It's about risk and how much you're willing to take, Steve.
Personally, I'll take whatever risks I want if I'm the only one whose
health is being risked. I wouldn't put anyone else at risk, however,
by doing researched-and-found-to-be-unsafe practices with foodstuffs. I
will grant that the USDA researchers *may* go overboard with their
safety recommendations, but I believe they have to include The Idiot
Factor in their cautions and/or recommendations. I'm pretty sure I can
find something that will say that garlic-infused oil should be
refrigerated and used within something like three days. You could
probably find it faster. Start with the NCHFP site:
<http://uga.edu/nchfp>
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller, Thelma and Louise
On the Road Again - It is Finished
Mark A.Meggs
Madeleine Kammem in the New Making of a Chef warns against it in the
strongest terms for the reasons aleady mentioned.
No oxygen + water + low acid content + C. botulinum bacteria are the
perfect environment for the bacteria to become active and produce the
botulism toxin. There's no way as a home cook that you can tell if
the bacteria are in there. The toxin is deadly in very small amounts.
There aren't that many cases a year, but why risk being one?
- Mark
Mark Thorson
>
> I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites
> warn you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork.
> But how often does it happen?
When Google was young, I noticed a local high-end
restaurant with fresh garlic in the bottom of their bottles
of olive oil. I printed out about 10 pages of stuff from
the net on the subject and mailed it to the restaurant.
The garlic disappeared and I got a free gift certificate
for $25. And I used it. The best meal I ever had was
at that restaurant. I haven't been there in years.
I should go again, if they still exist.
The priciest restaurant in that neighborhood is about
2 blocks away in an old Victorian mansion. It used
to be a funeral parlour, and I know a couple in which
the husband is white and the wife is Asian. They ate
there, and she found out later that the place had been
a funeral parlour and she was a bit freaked out by that.
Which reminds me (like a sort of demented James Burke)
that there's a house near me, now inhabited by Asian
people, in which the mother of one of my classmates
died. He was also the paper boy, and we subscribed.
It was Christmas, there was an open window, and the
wind blew the curtains over a candle that was placed
in front of the window. The resulting fire didn't
damage the house very much, but his mother died.
I wonder if the current residents know that, but I
don't see any constructive purpose in informing them.
"Hey, somebody burned to death in your house 35 years
ago! Do you see her ghost very often? I wouldn't live
there! Freaky, freaky, freaky!"
Cheryl
news:aplff4lr2ngb80j4i...@4ax.com...
>
> No oxygen + water + low acid content + C. botulinum bacteria are the
> perfect environment for the bacteria to become active and produce the
> botulism toxin. There's no way as a home cook that you can tell if
> the bacteria are in there. The toxin is deadly in very small amounts.
> There aren't that many cases a year, but why risk being one?
>
So can you make your own at-home Botox? (rhetorical)
PeterLucas
A6F640.191...@news.iphouse.com:
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/freeze/garlic_oil.html
Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I used to have a large bottle of garlic infused oil beside
my stove for quite a few years.I'd top the oil up whenever it was
running low, and every couple of months, I'd finish it off and chuck the
old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with oil. Never
refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop going through
all seasons for a couple of years.
No one got sick. No one died.
--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia
If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?
Wayne Boatwright
Then all you need is a syringe.
--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
*******************************************
Date: Thursday, 10(X)/16(XVI)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
3wks 4dys 5hrs 54mins
*******************************************
The road to a friend's house is never
difficult nor long.
Wayne Boatwright
You're quite sure you haven't died?
--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
*******************************************
Date: Thursday, 10(X)/16(XVI)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
3wks 4dys 5hrs 53mins
*******************************************
Another smooth escape disguised as a
dramatic exit.
Gregory Morrow
Mark Thorson wrote:
You should seriously consider opening a Halloween haunted house, Mark...one
of the exhibits could be a tableaux of Steve dying from botulism from some
dicey garlic infused into a bottle of olio. I'll even help set it up...
There is a popular resto near me (Ann Sather, on Chicago's north side) that
some years ago expanded and moved next door into a former funeral
parlor...no one much seemed to care.
--
Best
Greg
Gregory Morrow
PeterMucus wrote:
Nope, but your *brain* (as such that it "existed") did...
--
Best
Greg
" I find Greg Morrow lowbrow, witless, and obnoxious. For him to claim that
we are some
kind of comedy team turns my stomach."
- "cybercat" to me on rec.food.cooking
PeterLucas
news:Xns9B39B881892D3wa...@69.16.185.61:
>> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/freeze/garlic_oil.html
>>
>>
>> Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I used to have a large bottle of garlic infused oil
>> beside my stove for quite a few years.I'd top the oil up whenever it
>> was running low, and every couple of months, I'd finish it off and
>> chuck the old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with
>> oil. Never refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop
>> going through all seasons for a couple of years.
>>
>> No one got sick. No one died.
>>
>>
>
> You're quite sure you haven't died?
>
If I did, my spirit certainly enjoyed itself over in Malaysia last week
;-)
Maybe Australians are just 'made of sterner stuff'??
Wayne Boatwright
> Wayne Boatwright <waynebo...@geemail.com> wrote in
> news:Xns9B39B881892D3wa...@69.16.185.61:
>
>
>>> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/freeze/garlic_oil.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I used to have a large bottle of garlic infused oil
>>> beside my stove for quite a few years.I'd top the oil up whenever it
>>> was running low, and every couple of months, I'd finish it off and
>>> chuck the old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with
>>> oil. Never refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop
>>> going through all seasons for a couple of years.
>>>
>>> No one got sick. No one died.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You're quite sure you haven't died?
>>
>
>
>
> If I did, my spirit certainly enjoyed itself over in Malaysia last week
> ;-)
Now don't tell me you've become spiritual! :-)
> Maybe Australians are just 'made of sterner stuff'??
Naw, you're just a bunch of ruffians. :-)
--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
*******************************************
Date: Thursday, 10(X)/16(XVI)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
3wks 4dys 5hrs 32mins
*******************************************
Cats must eat mom's make up.
*******************************************
Mark A.Meggs
Given the amount of time Australia has been a separate landmass it's
possible C. botulinum isn't there or has mutated into a less toxic
variety. Although given how many plants have been imported it's a
good bet a toxic variety is there now (it naturally occurs in soil).
You need to find some Australian food preservation scientists who can
give you the straight dope on the situation there.
- Mark
PeterLucas
>>> You're quite sure you haven't died?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> If I did, my spirit certainly enjoyed itself over in Malaysia last
week
>> ;-)
>
> Now don't tell me you've become spiritual! :-)
Well, I did have a few G&T's last night when friends called over for
dinner..... that's the only spirits I get into :-)
>
>> Maybe Australians are just 'made of sterner stuff'??
>
> Naw, you're just a bunch of ruffians. :-)
That too!!
PeterLucas
>>http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/freeze/garlic_oil.html
>>
>>
>>Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I used to have a large bottle of garlic infused oil
beside
>>my stove for quite a few years.I'd top the oil up whenever it was
>>running low, and every couple of months, I'd finish it off and chuck
the
>>old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with oil. Never
>>refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop going
through
>>all seasons for a couple of years.
>>
>>No one got sick. No one died.
>
> Given the amount of time Australia has been a separate landmass it's
> possible C. botulinum isn't there or has mutated into a less toxic
> variety.
GIMF.
C. botulinum type A was found to be present in soil samples from
mountain areas of Victoria.[20] Type B organisms were detected in marine
mud from Tasmania.[21] Type A C. botulinum have been found in Sydney
suburbs and types A and B were isolated from urban areas. In a well
defined area of the Darling-Downs region of Queensland a study showed
the prevalence and persistence of C. botulinum type B after many cases
of botulism in horses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium_botulinum
> Although given how many plants have been imported it's a
> good bet a toxic variety is there now (it naturally occurs in soil).
>
> You need to find some Australian food preservation scientists who can
> give you the straight dope on the situation there.
Might be worth looking into, thanks.
I haven't done the garlic oil thing for a couple of years now, not since
we changed to exclusivly using Olive Oil and EVOO.
Omelet
JW <jwfi...@mts.net> wrote:
Toss it.
There is a real risk of botulism with this procedure.
Gas production like that is often a sign of spoilage.
Botulism poisoning is not something to fool with.
--
Peace! Om
"He who has the gold makes the rules"
--Om
"He who has the guns can get the gold."
-- Steve Rothstein
JW
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:38:49 +0000, JW <jwfi...@mts.net> wrote:
PeterLucas
A99383.210...@news.giganews.com:
> In article <6ekef45enkf681qpu...@4ax.com>,
> JW <jwfi...@mts.net> wrote:
>
>> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
>> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
>> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
>> countertop. The first time I tried this, it worked well. Great
flavor.
>> After I used up all the garlic on different meals, I decided to make
>> more oil. This time however, I noticed small air bubbles rising from
>> the bottom of the jar. As I didn't notice this the first time I made
>> it, I wasn't sure what I should do. Fresh garlic, fresh oil, clean
>> jar. I repeated everything step exactly. My friend is on vacation and
>> is unable to help. I wonder if one of you kind people could give me
an
>> answer. Are the bubbles air, escaping the garlic, or something more
>> ominous? Any response welcome.
>
> Toss it.
>
> There is a real risk of botulism with this procedure.
> Gas production like that is often a sign of spoilage.
>
> Botulism poisoning is not something to fool with.
Everytime I made garlic infused oil, it bubbled.
It did that for the many years that I made it. I used fresh garlic, and
fresh oil.
Has *anyone* actually contracted botulism and died from putting fresh
garlic in oil??
Or is it all hype brought on by something that *maybe* could happen?
PeterLucas
4ax.com:
> Well, I guess no more garlic infused olive oil for me!
>
No need to miss out!!
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/harvest/msg092314214425.html
http://cecalaveras.ucdavis.edu/garlic.htm
http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/recipes/979-making-homemade-garlic-
oil.html
"I love to serve (roasted) garlic oil with balsamic vinager instead of
butter with bread in my restaurant. The way I make it is to mince the
garlic in a robotcoupe (food processor) and use 1 Tbsp per cup of ex.
virgin olive oil and take that mix and put in a moderate oven or in a
pan over mod. heat and cook for 40 minutes then strain. Chill for
storage and let sit at room temp. to serve. It makes the bread taste
like garlic bread and is healthier that butter. "
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/539266
Gloria P
>
> The priciest restaurant in that neighborhood is about
> 2 blocks away in an old Victorian mansion. It used
> to be a funeral parlour, and I know a couple in which
> the husband is white and the wife is Asian. They ate
> there, and she found out later that the place had been
> a funeral parlour and she was a bit freaked out by that.
Maybe she had just seen Sweeney Todd, the Demon Butcher of Fleet Street.
> there's a house near me,in which the mother of one of my classmates
> died. It was Christmas, there was an open window, and the
> wind blew the curtains over a candle that was placed
> in front of the window. The resulting fire didn't
> damage the house very much, but his mother died.
>
> I wonder if the current residents know that, but I
> don't see any constructive purpose in informing them.
>
> "Hey, somebody burned to death in your house 35 years
> ago! Do you see her ghost very often? I wouldn't live
> there! Freaky, freaky, freaky!"
I'd be surprised if there were many old houses in which no one had died
over the years. When you think about it, how many people actually die
in hospitals? The rest die in various places, including houses.
My mom died in the same bed where I had been born 28 years previously.
My dad died in the house where he had been born 68 years previously. He
was visiting his family of origin in the "old country" after many years.
My FIL died in his own bed.
gloria p
Giusi
> Omelet >
>> Toss it.
>>
>> There is a real risk of botulism with this procedure.
> Everytime I made garlic infused oil, it bubbled.
>
> It did that for the many years that I made it. I used fresh garlic, and
> fresh oil.
> Has *anyone* actually contracted botulism and died from putting fresh
> garlic in oil??
>
> Or is it all hype brought on by something that *maybe* could happen?
> Peter Lucas
Botulism shows NO signs before it kills. I really don't think that once the
agriculture department discovered what about preserving was killing people,
that they continued to try out different products that might kill you to see
which ones were successful at it. Instead they made a list of all foods
with the problem and said, "Don't do this."
The research hasn't gone forward much since then, so if you would like to
pick it up and continue it, just let us know how you make out with the
boyulism, ok?
I buy garlic in oil, but it is acidified beforehand. The same for chili
oil.
Giusi
> "I love to serve (roasted) garlic oil with balsamic vinager instead of
> butter with bread in my restaurant. The way I make it is to mince the
> garlic in a robotcoupe (food processor) and use 1 Tbsp per cup of ex.
> virgin olive oil and take that mix and put in a moderate oven or in a >
> pan over mod. heat and cook for 40 minutes then strain. Chill for
> storage and let sit at room temp. to serve. It makes the bread taste
> like garlic bread and is healthier that butter. "
Why in heaven's name use extra virgin if you are going to cook it 40
minutes? That's silly.
PeterLucas
news:6lqrlhF...@mid.individual.net:
> "PeterLucas"
>> Omelet >
>>> JW <jwfi...@mts.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil.
>
>>> Toss it.
>>>
>>> There is a real risk of botulism with this procedure.
>> Everytime I made garlic infused oil, it bubbled.
>>
>> It did that for the many years that I made it. I used fresh garlic,
>> and fresh oil.
>
>> Has *anyone* actually contracted botulism and died from putting fresh
>> garlic in oil??
>>
>> Or is it all hype brought on by something that *maybe* could happen?
>
>> Peter Lucas
>
> Botulism shows NO signs before it kills. I really don't think that
> once the agriculture department discovered what about preserving was
> killing people, that they continued to try out different products that
> might kill you to see which ones were successful at it. Instead they
> made a list of all foods with the problem and said, "Don't do this."
Exactly....... they don't really know if it does or not, so rather than
risk anything, they just applied a scare tactic which everyone seems to
have taken as gospel.
>
> The research hasn't gone forward much since then, so if you would like
> to pick it up and continue it, just let us know how you make out with
> the boyulism, ok?
Well, I did it for many years, and I'm still here. So are all the people
that ate my food prepared with the garlic oil.
>
> I buy garlic in oil, but it is acidified beforehand. The same for
> chili oil.
Oh, I also used to make a chilli and garlic oil.
But since I got some chilli oil for Christmas one year, I don't need to
make it anymore. I just top it up when it gets low.
PeterLucas
@mid.individual.net:
Don't know. Ask the dude who wrote it. I gave the web page address with the
quote.
Mark A.Meggs
wrote:
>"PeterLucas"
>> Omelet >
>>> JW <jwfi...@mts.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil.
>
>>> Toss it.
>>>
>>> There is a real risk of botulism with this procedure.
>> Everytime I made garlic infused oil, it bubbled.
>>
>> It did that for the many years that I made it. I used fresh garlic, and
>> fresh oil.
>
>> Has *anyone* actually contracted botulism and died from putting fresh
>> garlic in oil??
>>
>> Or is it all hype brought on by something that *maybe* could happen?
>
>> Peter Lucas
>
>Botulism shows NO signs before it kills.
No - it's a neurotoxin and there are symptoms, although they can vary
from person to person, may be subtle, and may not be apparent until
sometime after the toxin is ingested.
> I really don't think that once the
>agriculture department discovered what about preserving was killing people,
>that they continued to try out different products that might kill you to see
>which ones were successful at it. Instead they made a list of all foods
>with the problem and said, "Don't do this."
It is known what conditions prevent C. botulinum from being active and
producing toxin.
In a boiling waer bath, there is really only one factor the home
canner can control -acidity. Presence of water and lack of oxugen are
going to exist in almost any home-canned product. At home, you have
no way to test for the presence of the bacteria in the thing being
canned - that's a total crap shoot.
"I've been doing it this way for years and I'm still alive" just
means the odds are low. It doesn't mean there is no danger, just that
you've gotten away with it.
Heat will kill the bacteria and destroy the toxin, but it has to be
enough heat for long enough time..
- Mark
Caveat - I am NOT a food preservation scientist. I just decided to do
some research when I realized most of the information being circulated
was inconsistent and a lot of it appeared to be guessing.
Sheldon
> "Giusi" wrote:
> >"PeterLucas"
> >> Omelet
It's the same posters who consistantly fail to research before
posting, that's how they remain consistantly ignorant, at least
they're consistant... for them this is indeed RFG....
rec.food,guessing. I'm absolutely positive that they don't cook
except with the mouth.
The botulism bacteria is present in soil all over the planet. Mostly
it remains dormant. When certain conditions are met botulism bacteria
become active and begin to produce toxin... the most toxic on the
planet. Because garlic and onions grow in the ground and because of
their unique configurations they are prime botulism carriers. I see
no reason whatsoever to infuse oil with garlic in advance anyway, it
won't taste nearly the same as a freshly made garlic and oil mixture.
The commercially preserved garlic so readily available in large
containers nowadays, and is specifically fancied for restaurant use,
tastes nothing like freshly prepared garlic... anyone who actually
cooks knows how funky previously cut and/or bruised garlic and onion
tastes... of course when afflicted with TIAD they'd not notice. Salad
bar crawlers don't realize the real danger lurking, it's botulism,
among a host of other food borne poisons, not so much sneezing and
coughing... you're going to contract whatever the sneezers and
coughers have anyway just from being in the same room with them, but
you will only get food poisoning from actually ingesting the
contaminated foods and/or other contaminated substances like dirt (be
sure to scrub hands well after gardening). Food poisoning is the most
under reported disease... just about everyone suffers from bouts of
food poisoning several times a year, but because most cases are so
mild hardly anyone seeks medical help. However even the most mild
cases are often quite debilitating while going through the throes of
all night sessions on the throne praying for immediate wellness or
death. The vast majority survive and quickly forget... food poisoning
just doesn't get reported... but pretty accurate estimations are
calculated from sales of certain OTC preparations. In the US alone
several millions are suffering some type of food poisoning at some
level 24/7.
Botulism is not something to take lightly... it can and does kill...
the elderly, young, and those with compromised immune systems are
especially vulnerable. Just last year a woman in her mid sixties who
lives alone less than a 1/4 mile down the road from me was found dead
in her home, an autopsy revealed botulism poisoning from consuming
fresh sausage. If ever you buy fresh sausage containing fresh
vegetables like peppers, parsley, onions, and garlic, cook it as soon
as possible, within 24 hours at the most or toss it, do not freeze it
for later use... and cook it well, best to simmer first for at least
20 minutes. Never ever buy any fresh sausage/ground meat from the
"used" meat display (I don't know why any sane person would buy any
meat past its sell-by date... what's a little food poisoning along
with their mental illness). Never ever prepare sausage at home using
fresh garlic, always use dehy... botulism is from the latin for
sausage.
http://www.medicinenet.com/botulism/article.htm
Merriam Webster
bot�u�li�num
noun
Etymology: New Latin, from Latin botulus sausage
Date: 1902
: a spore-forming bacterium (Clostridium botulinum) that secretes
botulinum toxin
---
Lass Chance_2
will not support the bacterial growth, but sadly, the water in the cells
of the garlic will.
Still, if you make a small enough amount that you can use it up within a
week and KEEP IT IN THE FRIDGE, you'll do fine.
Same goes with any other water-holding flavoring, fresh citrus, peppers,
fresh herbs, etc.
DRIED citrus, herbs and peppers are fine, tho.
I did find this recipe, tho, calling for CRUSHING the garlic first. Im
guessing...crushing the garlic releases the water from the garlic's
cells.
Garlic Oil:
Ingredients:
8 oz Extra Virgin Olive Oil
3 cloves of garlic, peeled and crushed
Add the oil gradually to the garlic in a food processor and process
until all the oil and garlic are fully blended. Pour into a glass bottle
and seal tightly. Refrigerate for 14 days, turning the bottle upside
down once every 2 days. Discard when oil becomes cloudy
LassChance
Dimitri
"Sqwertz" <swe...@cluemail.compst> wrote in message
news:gd8a74$3ll$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> Nancy2 wrote:
>> On Oct 16, 9:38 am, JW <jwfil...@mts.net> wrote:
>>> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
>>> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
>>> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
>>
>>
>> without refrigeration. Do some research, fergoodness'sakes.
>
> I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites warn
> you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork. But how
> often does it happen?
>
> -sw
See below.
Dimitri
News 03/06/1989
Chopped Garlic in Oil Mixes
P89-9 Food and Drug
Administration
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Chris Lecos (202) 245-1144
The Food and Drug Administration today warned that consumers may risk
potentially fatal botulism food poisoning from some commercial and homemade
chopped garlic-and-oil mixes if they are left at room temperature instead of
refrigerated. The warning follows an investigation of three
hospitalizations
in New York after use of such a product.
The labels of non-preserved commercial products call for refrigeration,
and FDA emphasized this means refrigeration from manufacturing to
consumption. In particular, garlic-and-oil mixes containing little or no
acidifying agent such as phosphoric or citric acid should be kept
refrigerated
at all times, FDA stressed.
FDA also is notifying producers of the commercial products to review the
formulation and labeling of their products. When refrigeration is needed,
both shipping cartons and products sold at retail should be clearly and
prominently labeled with such statements as "Requires Refrigeration for
Safety" or "Refrigerate Both Before and After Opening," FDA advised.
The New York Department of Health announced Feb. 28 that two men and a
woman from Kingston, N.Y., were hospitalized with botulism after a dinner
Feb. 19 at the home of one of the victims. A chopped garlic and oil mix had
been used in a spread for garlic bread.
Preliminary investigation by the state has implicated a commercially
prepared mix, "Colavita Chopped Garlic in Extra Virgin Olive Oil"
distributed
by Colavita Pasta and Oil Co., Newark, N. J. The firm, which is recalling
all
sizes of the product, told New York officials that distribution was
discontinued more than a year ago. Although the Kingston outbreak is still
being investigated, preliminary reports indicate the product may have been
stored at room temperature, even though the container has a "Keep
Refrigerated" statement on its label.
Botulism is a potentially fatal food poisoning characterized by blurred
or
double vision, speech and breathing difficulty and progressive paralysis.
Without prompt and correct treatment, one-third of those diagnosed may die.
Clostridium botulinum bacteria are widespread in the environment and may
be found on various produce, including garlic, but their spores are harmless
when there is oxygen in the environment. However, the spores can produce a
deadly toxin when in an anaerobic (oxygen free), low acid environment.
Recent
FDA studies have shown that garlic in an oil mixture can support bacterial
growth and toxin production even when very few Clostridium botulinum spores
are present.
Chopped garlic in oil has been implicated in botulism poisoning in the
past. For example, in 1985 37 people suffered botulism poisoning after
eating
a commercial chopped garlic in soybean oil at a Vancouver, British Columbia,
restaurant.
Sqwertz
> "Sqwertz"
>
>> I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites warn
>> you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork. But how
>> often does it happen?
>
> will never happen, but it does.
That's a lot of time spent trying to eliminate botulism in garlic.
-sw
Giusi
news:gdao41$tau$3...@registered.motzarella.org...
Yes, but Peter in Australia has offered to take over the research so we can
rest easy.
Melba's Jammin'
PeterLucas <Peter...@brissie.com> wrote:
> old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with oil. Never
> refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop going through
> all seasons for a couple of years.
>
> No one got sick. No one died.
Good.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller, Thelma and Louise
On the Road Again - It is Finished
Mark A.Meggs
<Peter...@brissie.com> wrote:
<snip>
>
>
>Exactly....... they don't really know if it does or not, so rather than
>risk anything, they just applied a scare tactic which everyone seems to
>have taken as gospel.
>
>
>>
>> The research hasn't gone forward much since then, so if you would like
>> to pick it up and continue it, just let us know how you make out with
>> the boyulism, ok?
>
>
>
>Well, I did it for many years, and I'm still here. So are all the people
>that ate my food prepared with the garlic oil.
>
>
>
>>
>> I buy garlic in oil, but it is acidified beforehand. The same for
>> chili oil.
>
>
>Oh, I also used to make a chilli and garlic oil.
>
>But since I got some chilli oil for Christmas one year, I don't need to
>make it anymore. I just top it up when it gets low.
According to the University of California, Davis the pH of garlic runs
between 5.3 and 6.3. The garlic provides water. The oil seals out
oxygen creating an anaerobic environment. These are the conditions in
which C. botulinum spores will go active and produce toxin. Why do
you demand someone actually die to prove it?
By your logic, we'd stop pressure canning too since not every single
low acid vegetable has been proven to produce botulin toxin. The
conditions that allow it to happen are known, so we avoid creating
those conditions.
The State of Victoria health department says there were 6 cases of
botulism poisoning reported in Australia between 1991 and 2003 (wasn't
required to be reported earlier). It's low odds, but given the
consequences why would you chance i especially if someone else's life
is at risk?
From the U. S. Fod and Drug Administration's Center for Food Safety
and Applied Nutrition:
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap2.html
On a lighter note - some amusing info from Uncle Cecil:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2653/is-garlic-oil-lethal
- Mark
PeterLucas
> In article <Xns9B3A70C80189CP...@210.8.230.25>,
> PeterLucas <Peter...@brissie.com> wrote:
>
>> old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with oil.
>> Never refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop
>> going through all seasons for a couple of years.
>>
>> No one got sick. No one died.
>
> Good.
>
Maybe the garlic we use is different to the stuff you have over there?
I take it the Botulism germ comes from the soil. So if we have clean soil,
no botulism germ??
Nemesis
> Melba's Jammin' <barbschal...@earthlink.net> wrote innews:barbschaller-5A46...@news.iphouse.com:
>
> > In article <Xns9B3A70C80189CPeterLhomeinbris...@210.8.230.25>,
> > PeterLucas <PeterLu...@brissie.com> wrote:
>
> >> old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with oil.
> >> Never refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop
> >> going through all seasons for a couple of years.
>
> >> No one got sick. No one died.
>
> > Good.
>
> Maybe the garlic we use is different to the stuff you have over there?
>
> I take it the Botulism germ comes from the soil. So if we have clean soil,
> no botulism germ??
>
> --
> Peter Lucas
> Brisbane
> Australia
>
> If we are not meant to eat animals,
> why are they made of meat?
Rather simplistic . Given that you did not add one of your LOL
ROFLMFAO.
One may assume youw ere asking a serious question .
Read here and note that it is an Australian site / cite :)
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/BHCV2/bhcArticles.nsf/pages/Botulism?OpenDocument
It is a rather nasty situation and I recall killed a few in SA a
while back from packaged preserved meats also another outbreak
IIRC 300 cases from a wedding function (must have been a bloody
big wedding) about 20 years back
PeterLucas
news:501176b8-25ff-4bbd...@s9g2000prm.googlegroups.com:
> On Oct 18, 10:26 am, PeterLucas <PeterLu...@brissie.com> wrote:
>> Melba's Jammin' <barbschal...@earthlink.net> wrote
>> innews:barbschaller-5A
> 46CF.1617...@news.iphouse.com:
>>
>> > In article <Xns9B3A70C80189CPeterLhomeinbris...@210.8.230.25>,
>> > PeterLucas <PeterLu...@brissie.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with oil.
>> >> Never refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop
>> >> going through all seasons for a couple of years.
>>
>> >> No one got sick. No one died.
>>
>> > Good.
>>
>> Maybe the garlic we use is different to the stuff you have over
>> there?
>>
>> I take it the Botulism germ comes from the soil. So if we have clean
>> soil
> ,
>> no botulism germ??
>>
>
> Rather simplistic . Given that you did not add one of your LOL
> ROFLMFAO.
You have something against people with a sense of humour?? How sad for
you, putz.
Also, the mere fact that you are another of those simpletons that
continually *needs* to change their posting 'identity' so that the
object of their desire will see their rants.... is quite indicative of
how pathetic you really are.
> One may assume youw ere asking a serious question .
> Read here and note that it is an Australian site / cite :)
> http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/BHCV2/bhcArticles.nsf/pages/Botulis
m
> ?OpenDocument
>
> It is a rather nasty situation and I recall killed a few in SA a
> while back from packaged preserved meats
As usual, in your haste to try and prove me wrong, you show yourself to
be a clueless twonk.
The Garibaldi meat incident involved enterohaemorrhagic E.
coli.
*Not* botulism.
A 4 year old female was the only fatality from that.
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/SLS/RIS_EN/2002/02SL353R2.pdf
http://www.foodscience.afisc.csiro.au/oilvine.htm
"Botulism is a rare disease, particularly in this country,"
> also another outbreak
> IIRC 300 cases from a wedding function (must have been a bloody
> big wedding) about 20 years back
>
No cite?? Why am I not suprised?
300 cases of botulism?? Once again, you show your stupidity.
Try salmonella poisoning..... which is *not* botulism.
Do us all a favour. putz, and stop changing your posting identity.
Nemesis
> Nemesis <spamlis...@gmail.com> wrote innews:501176b8-25ff-4bbd...@s9g2000prm.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 18, 10:26 am, PeterLucas <PeterLu...@brissie.com> wrote:
> >> Melba's Jammin' <barbschal...@earthlink.net> wrote
> >> innews:barbschaller-5A
>
> >> > In article <Xns9B3A70C80189CPeterLhomeinbris...@210.8.230.25>,
> >> > PeterLucas <PeterLu...@brissie.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with oil.
> >> >> Never refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop
> >> >> going through all seasons for a couple of years.
>
> >> >> No one got sick. No one died.
>
> >> > Good.
>
> >> Maybe the garlic we use is different to the stuff you have over
> >> there?
>
> >> I take it the Botulism germ comes from the soil. So if we have clean
> >> soil
> > ,
> >> no botulism germ??
>
> > Rather simplistic . Given that you did not add one of your LOL
> > ROFLMFAO.
>
> You have something against people with a sense of humour?? How sad for
> you, putz.
Bit precious today are we -upset tummy perhaps -------- tread
carefully PL No need to get up to your tricks on a cooking group
PeterLucas
news:b21217e7-b905-442f...@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> You have something against people with a sense of humour?? How sad
>> for you, putz.
>
> Bit precious today are we -upset tummy perhaps -------- tread
> carefully PL
GFY putz.
> No need to get up to your tricks on a cooking group
>
Piss off putz/pits....... crawl back to that cesspool that you and the
other cyber stalkers infest.
You fucked up, trying to tell everyone about 300 cases of botulism here
in Australia.
You're a fool, and a stalker. And you've been proven, once again, to be
an ignoramous. Go away.
Go back to pretending to be an ex-serviceman. Pretending is what you are
best at.
blake murphy
> "Giusi" <decob...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:6lqrlhF...@mid.individual.net:
>
>> "PeterLucas"
>>
>>> Has *anyone* actually contracted botulism and died from putting fresh
>>> garlic in oil??
>>>
>>> Or is it all hype brought on by something that *maybe* could happen?
>>
>>> Peter Lucas
>>
>> Botulism shows NO signs before it kills. I really don't think that
>> once the agriculture department discovered what about preserving was
>> killing people, that they continued to try out different products that
>> might kill you to see which ones were successful at it. Instead they
>> made a list of all foods with the problem and said, "Don't do this."
>
>
> Exactly....... they don't really know if it does or not, so rather than
> risk anything, they just applied a scare tactic which everyone seems to
> have taken as gospel.
>
>
>>
>> The research hasn't gone forward much since then, so if you would like
>> to pick it up and continue it, just let us know how you make out with
>> the boyulism, ok?
>
>
>
> Well, I did it for many years, and I'm still here. So are all the people
> that ate my food prepared with the garlic oil.
>
make sure not to wear your seat belt, either. after all, you've never been
in a head-on collision, either.
your pal,
blake
cybercat
"Sqwertz" <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote in message
news:181008.17465...@sqwertz.com...
> "Mark A.Meggs" <mme...@nospam.iglou.com> wrote:
>
>> Given the amount of time Australia has been a separate landmass it's
>> possible C. botulinum isn't there or has mutated into a less toxic
>> variety. Although given how many plants have been imported it's a
>> good bet a toxic variety is there now (it naturally occurs in soil).
>
> Australia consumes three times as much garlic as it produces.
>
You just pull this stuff out of your ass, tell the truth.
Nemesis
> Nemesis <spamlis...@gmail.com> wrote innews:b21217e7-b905-442f...@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> >> You have something against people with a sense of humour?? How sad
> >> for you, putz.
>
> > Bit precious today are we -upset tummy perhaps -------- tread
> > carefully PL
>
> GFY putz.
Peter leave it alone -------- try and enjoy discussion about food
You appear to be trying to turn over a new leaf and good luck to you.
And if I wish to contribute as have occasionally in the past (in
peace)
I shall do so and do not need your permission- clear ?
As I said tread carefully it appears you have not yet reverted to
type and are genuine in your appreciation of good tucker .
Leave it at that. In your defence it is damned annoying (for me
anyway) to see certain of those that you have had jousts with
being bloody silly leave them alone also and they might just go
away .
However, to try and jack boot and tell people on groups what to do
is
A Arrogant and B not working C and they keep putting the baits out
and you keep biting -- not smart
So leave me alone and I shall leave you alone -----
End of story get on with your new life and good luck to you
Mark A.Meggs
wrote:
>"Mark A.Meggs" <mme...@nospam.iglou.com> wrote:
>
>> Given the amount of time Australia has been a separate landmass it's
>> possible C. botulinum isn't there or has mutated into a less toxic
>> variety. Although given how many plants have been imported it's a
>> good bet a toxic variety is there now (it naturally occurs in soil).
>
>Australia consumes three times as much garlic as it produces.
>
>-sw
I wasn't thinking of current imports. Ever since the First Fleet
landed, plants and animals from around the world - along with
everything living in their soil or guts - have been brought to
Australia.
The post above was before I did a little googling and saw that there
have been cases of botulism poisoning in Australia. Less than 1/year,
but more than none at all.
- Mark
PeterLucas
news:1e8f5d47-f607-4c2f...@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> GFY putz.
>
> And if I wish to contribute as have occasionally in the past
Yeah, you came here after following me around the 'net.
> As I said tread carefully
As I said putz/pits...... GFY.
> it appears you have not yet reverted to
> type
It appears you have. Once a stalker, always a stalker.
> However, to try and jack boot and tell people on groups what to do
> is
> A Arrogant and B not working
Just like you trying to tell me what to do, right?
You really don't see what a contradictory, arrogant, little man you are, do
you?
>
> So leave me alone and I shall leave you alone -----
>
Good. Your new identity is now in my killfile. Fuck off and stop bothering
me.
Michael Kuettner
"Sqwertz" schrieb :
> "Mark A.Meggs" <mme...@nospam.iglou.com> wrote:
>
>> Given the amount of time Australia has been a separate landmass it's
>> possible C. botulinum isn't there or has mutated into a less toxic
>> variety. Although given how many plants have been imported it's a
>> good bet a toxic variety is there now (it naturally occurs in soil).
>
> Australia consumes three times as much garlic as it produces.
>
25000 tons of Chinese garlic are smuggled into the EU each year;
the profits are enormous.
Cheers,
Michael Kuettner
PeterLucas
@registered.motzarella.org:
>
But all that aside............ if the botulism germ is propagated by a lack
of Oxygen............. what if you mix your raw garlic with EVOO in a open
container???
Giusi
"PeterLucas" <Peter...@brissie.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:Xns9B3D1D2E4941CP...@210.8.230.25...
> "Michael Kuettner" <mik...@eunet.at> wrote in news:gdfnjm$2bp$1
> @registered.motzarella.org:
>
>>
>
>
> But all that aside............ if the botulism germ is propagated by a
> lack
> of Oxygen............. what if you mix your raw garlic with EVOO in a open
> container???
>
>
>
> --
> Peter Lucas
> Brisbane
> Australia
Really, Peter, just do it and get over it. We are waiting for results here.
PeterLucas
news:6m17slF...@mid.individual.net:
>>
>>
>> But all that aside............ if the botulism germ is propagated by
>> a lack
>> of Oxygen............. what if you mix your raw garlic with EVOO in a
>> open container???
>>
>
> Really, Peter, just do it and get over it. We are waiting for results
> here.
>
>
>
It won't be any different to what it's been for the last 15 years.
But then, you fraidey cats will never know for yourselves, will you?
--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia
Melba's Jammin'
PeterLucas <Peter...@brissie.com> wrote:
> "Michael Kuettner" <mik...@eunet.at> wrote in news:gdfnjm$2bp$1
> @registered.motzarella.org:
> But all that aside............ if the botulism germ is propagated by a lack
> of Oxygen............. what if you mix your raw garlic with EVOO in a open
> container???
Enjoy it!! That's fine.
Botulism toxin develops in an anaerobic environment. And it doesn't
"smell funny" or "look funny." Which is why the mere fact of a properly
*sealed* (I'm not talking about proper processing) jar is absolutely no
guarantee of safety.
You're a smart man, Peter; do your own research. Poke around the home
preserving site located at the University of Georgia up here:
www.uga.edu/nchfp. I'm pretty sure you'll find something there.
This is a nice list of questions and answers:
http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/dfbmd/disease_listing/botulism_gi.html#1
It's at the Centers for Disease Control, part of Health and Human
Services arm of the American government.
Melba's Jammin'
PeterLucas <Peter...@brissie.com> wrote:
> "Giusi" <decob...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:6m17slF...@mid.individual.net:
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> But all that aside............ if the botulism germ is propagated by
> >> a lack
> >> of Oxygen............. what if you mix your raw garlic with EVOO in a
> >> open container???
> >>
>
> >
> > Really, Peter, just do it and get over it. We are waiting for results
> > here.
> >
> >
> >
>
> It won't be any different to what it's been for the last 15 years.
>
> But then, you fraidey cats will never know for yourselves, will you?
Fraidy cat or cautious? I'm not interested in much risk where the
health and well being of my loved ones and/or guests are concerned. As
I said earlier, it's about how much risk one is willing to take. Thus
far, you've said nothing that makes me think that garlic-infused oil is
any better 4 weeks later than that which is prepared maybe a day in
advance. For myself, I see little difficulty in preparing it on as
as-needed basis in small amounts. Clearly your mileage varies鞠ine for
you誼ut skip the taunting language. It doesn't become you.
Michael Kuettner
"Melba's Jammin'" <barbsc...@earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:barbschaller-9843...@news.iphouse.com...
> In article <Xns9B3D1D2E4941CP...@210.8.230.25>,
> PeterLucas <Peter...@brissie.com> wrote:
>
>> "Michael Kuettner" <mik...@eunet.at> wrote in news:gdfnjm$2bp$1
>> @registered.motzarella.org:
>
>> But all that aside............ if the botulism germ is propagated by a lack
>> of Oxygen............. what if you mix your raw garlic with EVOO in a open
>> container???
>
> Enjoy it!! That's fine.
>
> Botulism toxin develops in an anaerobic environment. And it doesn't
> "smell funny" or "look funny." Which is why the mere fact of a properly
> *sealed* (I'm not talking about proper processing) jar is absolutely no
> guarantee of safety.
>
> You're a smart man, Peter; do your own research. Poke around the home
> preserving site located at the University of Georgia up here:
> www.uga.edu/nchfp. I'm pretty sure you'll find something there.
>
> This is a nice list of questions and answers:
> http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/dfbmd/disease_listing/botulism_gi.html#1
> It's at the Centers for Disease Control, part of Health and Human
> Services arm of the American government.
>
Thank you.
Cheers,
Michael Kuettner
PeterLucas
> In article <Xns9B3D1D2E4941CP...@210.8.230.25>,
> PeterLucas <Peter...@brissie.com> wrote:
>
>> "Michael Kuettner" <mik...@eunet.at> wrote in news:gdfnjm$2bp$1
>> @registered.motzarella.org:
>
>> But all that aside............ if the botulism germ is propagated by
>> a lack of Oxygen............. what if you mix your raw garlic with
>> EVOO in a open container???
>
> Enjoy it!! That's fine.
>
> Botulism toxin develops in an anaerobic environment. And it doesn't
> "smell funny" or "look funny." Which is why the mere fact of a
> properly *sealed* (I'm not talking about proper processing) jar is
> absolutely no guarantee of safety.
>
> You're a smart man, Peter; do your own research. Poke around the home
> preserving site located at the University of Georgia up here:
> www.uga.edu/nchfp. I'm pretty sure you'll find something there.
>
> This is a nice list of questions and answers:
> http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/dfbmd/disease_listing/botulism_gi.html#1
> It's at the Centers for Disease Control, part of Health and Human
> Services arm of the American government.
>
Thanks for the links Barb.......... looks like I'm in for some 'light
reading' :-)
PeterLucas
> I said earlier, it's about how much risk one is willing to take. Thus
> far, you've said nothing that makes me think that garlic-infused oil is
> any better 4 weeks later than that which is prepared maybe a day in
> advance.
I actually used to make it and then let it sit for about 3-4 days....
releasing the gas every day or so. Once it stopped bubbling and producing
gas, it was ready to use.
Releasing the gas was always good.
It filled the kitchen with that garlic oil smell........ nice :-)
Melba's Jammin'
"Michael Kuettner" <mik...@eunet.at> wrote:
> Michael Kuettner
LOL! I guess I slipped on that one. I generally do a good job trimming
and I rewrap previous stuff so it's neater, too. So there! <g>
Michael Kuettner
"Sqwertz" <swe...@cluemail.compost> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:191008.20381...@sqwertz.com...
> Michael Kuettner <mik...@eunet.at> wrote:
>
>> As I wrote nothing of the above, how about trimming your posts ?
>
> as he's the one that mis-quoted int he first place.
(a) No, he snipped just everything I wrote.
(b) Getting pissy ? Hardly.
But then reading comprehension isn't your forte, it seems.
> Or you could
> have just taken a pill instead.
>
Thanks, but I don't want to end up like you.
Cheers,
Michael Kuettner
Michael Kuettner
"Melba's Jammin'" schrieb :
> "Michael Kuettner" <mik...@eunet.at> wrote:
>
<snip>
>> As I wrote nothing of the above, how about trimming your posts ?
>> Michael Kuettner
>
> LOL! I guess I slipped on that one. I generally do a good job trimming
> and I rewrap previous stuff so it's neater, too. So there! <g>
Thank you.
Cheers,
Michael Kuettner
PeterLucas
@registered.motzarella.org:
>
> "Sqwertz" <swe...@cluemail.compost> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:191008.20381...@sqwertz.com...
>> Michael Kuettner <mik...@eunet.at> wrote:
>>
>>> As I wrote nothing of the above, how about trimming your posts ?
>>
>> Maybe you should be getting pissy with Peter instead of Melba Toast
>> as he's the one that mis-quoted int he first place.
>
> (a) No, he snipped just everything I wrote.
Anyone with half a brain can go back 1/2 dozen posts and see the general
layout.
Seems that is beyond spurtz.
> (b) Getting pissy ? Hardly.
> But then reading comprehension isn't your forte, it seems.
>
>> Or you could
>> have just taken a pill instead.
>>
> Thanks, but I don't want to end up like you.
>
OK........ you scored an extra 10 points for that one.
Melba's Jammin'
Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote:
> Michael Kuettner <mik...@eunet.at> wrote:
>
> > As I wrote nothing of the above, how about trimming your posts ?
>
> Maybe you should be getting pissy with Peter instead of Melba Toast
> as he's the one that mis-quoted int he first place. Or you could
> have just taken a pill instead.
> [Don't worry Melba! I'll Save you!]
>
> ObFood: Blackened salmon fillet with sauteed mixed veggies (corn,
> broccoli, snap peas, brussels sprouts, regular peas).
>
> -sw [knight in shining armor]
Thanks, Sonny! You almost brought a tear to my eye.
(And it was Melba Jam, not toast, you little punk!)
Your salmon dinner sounds very good.
I picked up a beautiful head of cauliflower at the farmers market last
Thursday just because it was so gorgeous and only $2. The farmer ties
the foliage over the heads to keep them nice and white.
Reminds me that I have to do something with it. I think I'll consider
my mom's Kalifka Polievka (Cauliflower Soup). Bubba Vic, should that
be Kalifkova Polievka?
Kalifka Polievka - Cauliflower Soup
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recipe By: posted to r.f.cooking by Barb Schaller, 10-21-2008
Serving Size: 6
Ingredients:
2 quarts water
5 cups prepared cauliflower (1#; 1 small head or half a medium head)
1-1/2 cups carrots, coarsely shredded (4 ounces or 2 medium)
1 teaspoon salt
1 tablespoon chicken base (optional, instead of salt)
2 tablespoons chopped parsley
3 tablespoons butter
1/3 cup chopped onion (2.2 ounces)
2 tablespoons flour
Directions:
Bring water to boil in a large saucepan (at least 3 quarts). Break
cauliflower into bite size pieces. Add cauliflower pieces and grated
carrots and salt to boiling water. Simmer covered for 8-10 minutes.
Add chopped parsley and simmer 5 minutes longer.
Cook the chopped onion slowly in butter until it browns lightly, about
10 minutes or so. Stir in flour and brown a bit. This is that great
Slovak thickener and flavoring agent called "zaprashka."
Remove from heat and slowly stir in 1 cup liquid from the soup pot.
Return to heat, bring to a boil, stirring to keep it smooth. Pour this
back into the soup kettle and boil 1 minute. Serve immediately or
another day.
Notes:
Made 10-21-2008 for the first time. It was remarkably boring and bland
but I think there may be room for improving it, although the changes I
would make would lessen its "Slovak-ness," I believe. And I can only
imagine how it would be without the chicken base.
Consider adding freshly ground black pepper; maybe some shredded sharp
cheddar on top of a serving--I added some freshly grated Parmigiano
Reggiano to my bowl (so much for Slovensky kucharka). I thought about
some rosemary or thyme but did not use any. I got to thinking that some
crumbled bacon would be nice, too. I think what it needed is more salt
and the bacon and cheeses would supply that.
Another important piece of this is that my cauliflower was snow white
and nearly tasteless--perhaps a head of a more strongly flavored
cauliflower would improve it.
For all my kvetching here, I like it.
Michael Kuettner
"Melba's Jammin'" schrieb :
<snip>
> I picked up a beautiful head of cauliflower at the farmers market last
> Thursday just because it was so gorgeous and only $2. The farmer ties
> the foliage over the heads to keep them nice and white.
>
> Reminds me that I have to do something with it. I think I'll consider
> my mom's Kalifka Polievka (Cauliflower Soup). Bubba Vic, should that
> be Kalifkova Polievka?
>
> Kalifka Polievka - Cauliflower Soup
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Recipe By: posted to r.f.cooking by Barb Schaller, 10-21-2008
> Serving Size: 6
>
I'll give some hints since you kvetched about the recipe; hope you like them.
> Ingredients:
>
> 2 quarts water
better :
veal bone stock; boil the trunk and the leaves of the cauliflower
in it. Also the stems of parsley.
Beef stock will do, too.
Pour through a sieve and use the liquid to boil the cauliflower.
> 5 cups prepared cauliflower (1#; 1 small head or half a medium head)
> 1-1/2 cups carrots, coarsely shredded (4 ounces or 2 medium)
> 1 teaspoon salt
> 1 tablespoon chicken base (optional, instead of salt)
> 2 tablespoons chopped parsley
> 3 tablespoons butter
> 1/3 cup chopped onion (2.2 ounces)
> 2 tablespoons flour
>
> Directions:
>
> Bring water to boil in a large saucepan (at least 3 quarts). Break
> cauliflower into bite size pieces. Add cauliflower pieces and grated
> carrots and salt to boiling water. Simmer covered for 8-10 minutes.
> Add chopped parsley and simmer 5 minutes longer.
>
Don't ! Add the parsley at the end for fuller flavour.
> Cook the chopped onion slowly in butter until it browns lightly, about
> 10 minutes or so. Stir in flour and brown a bit. This is that great
> Slovak thickener and flavoring agent called "zaprashka."
>
This is k.u.k. , btw.
You get better results if you let the onion only get glassy, then stir in the
flour and heighten the temperature for browning (while stirring).
> Remove from heat and slowly stir in 1 cup liquid from the soup pot.
> Return to heat, bring to a boil, stirring to keep it smooth. Pour this
> back into the soup kettle and boil 1 minute.
Add the finely chopped parsley, salt, white pepper and grated nutmeg now.
(Before boiling). Let it simmer for some minutes after a short boil.
> Serve immediately or
> another day.
>
> Notes:
>
> Made 10-21-2008 for the first time. It was remarkably boring and bland
> but I think there may be room for improving it, although the changes I
> would make would lessen its "Slovak-ness," I believe. And I can only
> imagine how it would be without the chicken base.
>
There's no Slovak-ness in this dish. It's dumbed down k.u.k. "Karfiol-Suppe".
<snip>
Cheers,
Michael Kuettner
Melba's Jammin'
"Michael Kuettner" <mik...@eunet.at> wrote:
(snip)
> There's no Slovak-ness in this dish. It's dumbed down k.u.k. "Karfiol-Suppe".
> <snip>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Michael Kuettner
What's k.u.k.?
Michael Kuettner
> In article <gdimfm$rct$1...@registered.motzarella.org>,
> "Michael Kuettner" <mik...@eunet.at> wrote:
> (snip)
>> There's no Slovak-ness in this dish. It's dumbed down k.u.k. "Karfiol-Suppe".
>> <snip>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Michael Kuettner
>
> What's k.u.k.?
The Danubian monarchy (kaiserlich und königlich). Habsburg.
Cheers,
Michael Kuettner
Margaret Suran
This is really something only you could achieve. Make something on the
21st, when today is only the 20th. You must be a real witch. :o(
Victor Sack
> I think I'll consider
> my mom's Kalifka Polievka (Cauliflower Soup). Bubba Vic, should that
> be Kalifkova Polievka?
Nope, should be "karfiolová polievka". Must have come from the horrid
Ösis (like one Resi Suran) who couldn't even copy the Italian
"cavolfiore" correctly. They have an excuse in this case, though,
cauliflower being unfit for human consumption.
Bubba Vic
Melba's Jammin'
Margaret Suran <marg...@no.spam.for.me.invalid> wrote:
I think I am so reeling from my mother's recipe being referred to as
"dumbed-down" from some German recipe that I forgot what day it is.
What an insult.
Melba's Jammin'
azaz...@koroviev.de (Victor Sack) wrote:
> Melba's Jammin' <barbsc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > I think I'll consider
> > my mom's Kalifka Polievka (Cauliflower Soup). Bubba Vic, should that
> > be Kalifkova Polievka?
>
> Nope, should be "karfiolová polievka". Must have come from the horrid
> Ösis (like one Resi Suran)
> Bubba Vic
Well, FINE, then! ;-P
I rather suspect it is from my sister, who generally doesn't give a
rat's ass about the correct spelling of anything. I'm willing to guess
that she was trying to remember what Mom called it and guessed wrong.
Wouldn't be the first time.
Cheryl
news:barbschaller-6E7C...@news.iphouse.com...
>
> Another important piece of this is that my cauliflower was snow white
> and nearly tasteless--perhaps a head of a more strongly flavored
> cauliflower would improve it.
>
I wonder if it would have worked if the cauliflower was roasted in olive oil
rather than boiled? I cooked up a head over the weekend that way, and it
was very flavorful ... it was sweet tasting. Probably because the edges had
caramelized.
Michael Kuettner
> In article <gdipl3$e33$1...@registered.motzarella.org>,
> Margaret Suran <marg...@no.spam.for.me.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>> > In article <191008.20381...@sqwertz.com>,
>> > Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Michael Kuettner <mik...@eunet.at> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> As I wrote nothing of the above, how about trimming your posts ?
>> >> Maybe you should be getting pissy with Peter instead of Melba Toast
>> >> as he's the one that mis-quoted int he first place. Or you could
>> >> have just taken a pill instead.
>> >
>> >> [Don't worry Melba! I'll Save you!]
>> >>
>> >> ObFood: Blackened salmon fillet with sauteed mixed veggies (corn,
>> >> broccoli, snap peas, brussels sprouts, regular peas).
>> >>
>> >> -sw [knight in shining armor]
>> >
>> > Thanks, Sonny! You almost brought a tear to my eye.
>> > (And it was Melba Jam, not toast, you little punk!)
>> > Your salmon dinner sounds very good.
>> > I picked up a beautiful head of cauliflower at the farmers market last
>> > Thursday just because it was so gorgeous and only $2. The farmer ties
>> > the foliage over the heads to keep them nice and white.
>> >
>> > For all my kvetching here, I like it.
>>
>> This is really something only you could achieve. Make something on the
>> 21st, when today is only the 20th. You must be a real witch. :o(
>
> I think I am so reeling from my mother's recipe being referred to as
> "dumbed-down" from some German recipe that I forgot what day it is.
> What an insult.
We Austrians were never German. Although we ruled the buggers for
half a millennium (Holy Roman Empire).
However, we ruled the Slovakian buggers even longer.
Cheers,
Michael Kuettner
Melba's Jammin'
"Michael Kuettner" <mik...@eunet.at> wrote:
> "Melba's Jammin'" <barbsc...@earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:barbschaller-54BA...@news.iphouse.com...
> > I think I am so reeling from my mother's recipe being referred to as
> > "dumbed-down" from some German recipe that I forgot what day it is.
> > What an insult.
>
> We Austrians were never German. Although we ruled the buggers for
> half a millennium (Holy Roman Empire).
> However, we ruled the Slovakian buggers even longer.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Michael Kuettner
Define "bugger."
Michael Kuettner
"Melba's Jammin'" schrieb :
> "Michael Kuettner" wrote:
>
>> We Austrians were never German. Although we ruled the buggers for
>> half a millennium (Holy Roman Empire).
>> However, we ruled the Slovakian buggers even longer.
>>
>
>
Meant in a nice way. If it offends you, I'll gladly replace it with "fellows".
Cheers,
Michael Kuettner
Victor Sack
> azaz...@koroviev.de (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
> > Melba's Jammin' <barbsc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I think I'll consider
> > > my mom's Kalifka Polievka (Cauliflower Soup). Bubba Vic, should that
> > > be Kalifkova Polievka?
> >
> > Nope, should be "karfiolová polievka". Must have come from the horrid
> > Ösis (like one Resi Suran)
>
> Well, FINE, then! ;-P
> I rather suspect it is from my sister, who generally doesn't give a
> rat's ass about the correct spelling of anything. I'm willing to guess
> that she was trying to remember what Mom called it and guessed wrong.
> Wouldn't be the first time.
"Kalifka" may be from your sister, but the evil Resi bears personal
responsibility for "Karfiol".
Bubba Vic