Chicken-fried steak sous vide
isw
which these days (far from my Southern "boyhood") I cook only rarely --
partly because the others in the family are culinary barbarians who
won't touch it. Anyhow, one problem is that no matter how much I try to
tenderize the (already cubed) beef, it winds up tasty but tough.
I've been fiddling around with sous vide cooking for some months, and it
occurred to me to combine the two and see what would happen.
Yesterday, I seasoned a piece of cubed beef (note that I did not pound
it or otherwise attempt to further tenderize it at all), stuck it in a
vacuum bag, and dropped it in a 145 F water bath. This evening, a good
24 hours later, I pulled it out, blotted it dry, did the flour-egg-flour
thing, and pan-fried it quickly in hot oil. The fact that the meat was
already cooked meant that I could fry it pretty hot to get a nice brown
crust without having to worry about whether the middle was done too.
Anyhow, the experiment was a success. The beef had a crispy crust, and
was fork tender -- not "melt-in-your-mouth", but certainly a lot moreso
than with my previous prep method.
Since there isn't any real effort involved in the 24 hour sous vide
part, I will be doing it that way again. I may try something like 48
hours at about 130 F -- that might get me a tender, *rare* CFS, which
would be an interesting thing indeed.
Isaac
Steve Pope
>Yesterday, I seasoned a piece of cubed beef (note that I did not pound
>it or otherwise attempt to further tenderize it at all), stuck it in a
>vacuum bag, and dropped it in a 145 F water bath. This evening, a good
>24 hours later, I pulled it out, blotted it dry, did the flour-egg-flour
>thing, and pan-fried it quickly in hot oil. The fact that the meat was
>already cooked meant that I could fry it pretty hot to get a nice brown
>crust without having to worry about whether the middle was done too.
>
>Anyhow, the experiment was a success. The beef had a crispy crust, and
>was fork tender -- not "melt-in-your-mouth", but certainly a lot moreso
>than with my previous prep method.
>
>Since there isn't any real effort involved in the 24 hour sous vide
>part, I will be doing it that way again. I may try something like 48
>hours at about 130 F -- that might get me a tender, *rare* CFS, which
>would be an interesting thing indeed.
Thanks for the report.
Have you ever made CFS with rib steak (rather than cubed steak)?
Would that be another possibility for the sous vide treatment?
Steve
sf
First boiled chicken fried steak and now breaded, boiled and fried rib
eye? Stop the madness!
--
Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
Janet
I always made chicken fried steak with pounded round steak. It wasn't tough
at all.
Dora
> Much of the reason that CFS is so tough is that it is cooked too
> quick
> and it seizes up the meat muscle which is especially bad for
> traditional round. If I cook CFS at home, which is rare, why not
> spend the extra $1.50 and get a thin slice of ribeye or even strip
> and
> use that instead of some cheap round? Tastes better and is more
> convenient than going Modernist on one of the most notoriously cheap
> dishes known to mankind. IMO, at least.
>
> I don't think I've seen cubed steak since I left California, come to
> think of it. And I live in CFS territory.
>
> -sw
I couldn't agree more. When we were on a really tight, almost
nonexistent, budget I bought plenty of cubed steak and it was always
tough. Buy a thin piece of real steak - you'd enjoy the meal, rather
than throwing your money away on something tough.
Dora
Bryan
> I'm an old Southern boy, and so naturally I like chicken-fried steak,
> which these days (far from my Southern "boyhood") I cook only rarely --
> partly because the others in the family are culinary barbarians who
> won't touch it. Anyhow, one problem is that no matter how much I try to
> tenderize the (already cubed) beef, it winds up tasty but tough.
>
> I've been fiddling around with sous vide cooking for some months, and it
> occurred to me to combine the two and see what would happen.
>
> Yesterday, I seasoned a piece of cubed beef (note that I did not pound
> it or otherwise attempt to further tenderize it at all), stuck it in a
> vacuum bag, and dropped it in a 145 F water bath. This evening, a good
> 24 hours later, I pulled it out, blotted it dry, did the flour-egg-flour
> thing, and pan-fried it quickly in hot oil. The fact that the meat was
> already cooked meant that I could fry it pretty hot to get a nice brown
> crust without having to worry about whether the middle was done too.
>
crispy brown w/o overcooking the inside. I don't want it past medium.
>
> Isaac
--Bryan
Chemo the Clown
Ya...use round for sure.
isw
<6ffe38dd-be66-409d...@j31g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
Bryan <bryang...@gmail.com> wrote:
And sous vide takes care of that perfectly, because it totally separates
the "crispy outside" part from the "properly done inside" part.
Isaac
isw
Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:14:58 -0700, isw wrote:
>
> > I'm an old Southern boy, and so naturally I like chicken-fried steak,
> > which these days (far from my Southern "boyhood") I cook only rarely --
> > partly because the others in the family are culinary barbarians who
> > won't touch it. Anyhow, one problem is that no matter how much I try to
> > tenderize the (already cubed) beef, it winds up tasty but tough.
> >
> > I've been fiddling around with sous vide cooking for some months, and it
> > occurred to me to combine the two and see what would happen.
> >
> > Yesterday, I seasoned a piece of cubed beef (note that I did not pound
> > it or otherwise attempt to further tenderize it at all), stuck it in a
> > vacuum bag, and dropped it in a 145 F water bath. This evening, a good
> > 24 hours later, I pulled it out, blotted it dry, did the flour-egg-flour
> > thing, and pan-fried it quickly in hot oil. The fact that the meat was
> > already cooked meant that I could fry it pretty hot to get a nice brown
> > crust without having to worry about whether the middle was done too.
> >
> > Anyhow, the experiment was a success. The beef had a crispy crust, and
> > was fork tender -- not "melt-in-your-mouth", but certainly a lot moreso
> > than with my previous prep method.
>
> The problem with cube steak is that you never know what cut of meat it
> is for sure. It's usually going to be round which is pretty
> universally tough, but even round has it's good moments. So it's
> kinda unfair to base a conclusion on one cubed steak.
Well, I buy them from the same meat market every time - and it's one
where I can point to what I want and have a real person wrap it up for
me.
> Much of the reason that CFS is so tough is that it is cooked too quick
> and it seizes up the meat muscle which is especially bad for
> traditional round.
Yup. But the sous vide treatment tenderizes it very nicely while still
leaving it pink (or whatever you like) all the way through.
> If I cook CFS at home, which is rare, why not
> spend the extra $1.50 and get a thin slice of ribeye or even strip and
> use that instead of some cheap round?
I agree, sort of, but this was, after all an experiment. But, there's a
pretty good argument to be made that tender beef is less flavorful.
> I don't think I've seen cubed steak since I left California, come to
> think of it. And I live in CFS territory.
Well, I live in Silicon Valley. I grew up in Arkansas, but I left so
long ago that I really have no idea what was available in grocery stores
there, then or now. And my mom was just not all that good a cook -- her
CFS was not crispy, was tough as shoeleather, and was served without
gravy.
Isaac
isw
"Dora" <lime...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, what I did was certainly tasty enough -- and as I said, it
certainly was not tough. I may try the same thing with a slab of
flatiron steak -- that's a lot more tender to start out with. But I'll
still give it about 24 hours in the water bath.
Isaac
isw
spo...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
No, but I may try.
> Would that be another possibility for the sous vide treatment?
Essentially, you can cook anything sous vide. I've only done a handful
of things that way, but my impression is that it does nothing that you
couldn't do some other way provided you were a very, very good cook who
was totally familiar with the stove and oven you had to work with. Sous
vide just lets a less experienced cook achieve the same result.
What it does (for meat, at any rate), is take all the guesswork out of
the process. It totally separates "cooking until tender" from "cooking
just to medium-rare (or whatever)".
Whether you keep a piece of meat in the water bath at 130 F for one,
ten, or thirty, hours, when you take it out it will still be rare to
medium-rare, and pink all the way through. What else it will do, is let
the meat get more and more tender, as all the tough parts dissolve.
Isaac
isw
sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
Um, if you think that cooking sous vide is in any way similar to
"boiling", well, you have a bit more research to do ...
Isaac
notbob
> Um, if you think that cooking sous vide is in any way similar to
> "boiling", well, you have a bit more research to do ...
What I think is, douche vid isn't even really cooking. More like
rapid putrefaction! Making a CFS from something that's rotted in a
hot tub fer a day and a half sounds jes plain creepy. I'll stick to
frying, thank you.
nb
Bryan
> In article
> <6ffe38dd-be66-409d-8ecf-024f296eb...@j31g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
But I don't consider the inside having been cooked to 145F to be
"properly done."
>
> Isaac
--Bryan
Bryan
> Sqwertz wrote:
> > Much of the reason that CFS is so tough is that it is cooked too
> > quick
> > and it seizes up the meat muscle which is especially bad for
> > traditional round. If I cook CFS at home, which is rare, why not
> > spend the extra $1.50 and get a thin slice of ribeye or even strip
> > and
> > use that instead of some cheap round? Tastes better and is more
> > convenient than going Modernist on one of the most notoriously cheap
> > dishes known to mankind. IMO, at least.
>
> > I don't think I've seen cubed steak since I left California, come to
> > think of it. And I live in CFS territory.
Cube steak can be pretty inexpensive, and ribeye has too much fat to
be good for CFS.
>
> > -sw
>
> I couldn't agree more. When we were on a really tight, almost
> nonexistent, budget I bought plenty of cubed steak and it was always
> tough. Buy a thin piece of real steak - you'd enjoy the meal, rather
> than throwing your money away on something tough.
You can certainly make it with sirloin by beating it with a hammer:
http://www.butcher-packer.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=198
The cubing process allows more flour to adhere
>
> Dora
--Bryan
sf
> Um, if you think that cooking sous vide is in any way similar to
> "boiling", well, you have a bit more research to do ...
They're drowning food in hot water. Oh, yeah. It's in a bag. Just
like boil in bag frozen vegetables. Wow, whatta concept.
sf
<bryang...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Cube steak can be pretty inexpensive, and ribeye has too much fat to
> be good for CFS.
So they use cube steak for chicken fried steak?
ItsJoanNotJoann
>
>
It did sound nasty, didn't it??
ItsJoanNotJoann
> > Cube steak can be pretty inexpensive, and ribeye has too much fat to
> > be good for CFS.
>
> So they use cube steak for chicken fried steak?
>
>
sf
Thanks. I've wanted to try making chicken friend steak from time to
time; but for some reason I don't buy cube steak very often (probably
because I don't see it a lot) and when I do... it magically turns into
swiss steak. Yum. :)
Bryan
> On Sat, 2 Jul 2011 10:33:26 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
>
> > On Jul 2, 10:37 am, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sat, 2 Jul 2011 07:03:10 -0700 (PDT), Bryan
>
> > > <bryangsimm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Cube steak can be pretty inexpensive, and ribeye has too much fat to
> > > > be good for CFS.
>
> > > So they use cube steak for chicken fried steak?
>
> > Yes.
>
> Thanks. I've wanted to try making chicken friend steak from time to
> time; but for some reason I don't buy cube steak very often (probably
> because I don't see it a lot) and when I do... it magically turns into
> swiss steak. Yum. :)
>
and buy sirloins when they are on sale, chicken fried steak can be
nice and tender. I salt and pepper before flouring, then fry in hot
peanut oil to brown the breading w/o overcooking the beef.
Unfortunately, my picky-picky family doesn't like it much. Tonight
it's sirloin on the grill over good wood.
--Bryan
Bryan
> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 23:29:58 -0700, isw wrote:
> > In article <zqhi9kguc2wc....@sqwertz.com>,
> > Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote:
>
> >> If I cook CFS at home, which is rare, why not
> >> spend the extra $1.50 and get a thin slice of ribeye or even strip and
> >> use that instead of some cheap round?
>
> > I agree, sort of, but this was, after all an experiment. But, there's a
> > pretty good argument to be made that tender beef is less flavorful.
>
> science. Lord knows I do a lot of experimentation myself.
>
> Is it reall y necessary to keep a piece of meat at 130F for 48 hours?
> Wouldn't it come up to temp within 8 hours (assuming circulating
> water) or does it benefit somehow from being held at that temperature
> for that long a period?
>
Leaving it in that long breaks down connective tissue. With more
tender cuts--like an ungraded tenderloin I bought in a cryovac bag--it
can turn the meat mushy. My favorite use for it is for corned beef,
where you can just leave it in the bag it came in, then eat it over a
few days or even freeze the thing in its bag.
>
> -sw
--Bryan
sf
<bryang...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you use one of those mallets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_tenderizer
> and buy sirloins when they are on sale, chicken fried steak can be
> nice and tender.
I inherited my husband's mother's meat tenderizer, which has a handle.
My DD gave me a round, well weighted, reversible (teeth on one side,
flat on the other) one from William's Sonoma for xmas 2010, but I'm
sorry to say that I haven't test driven it yet.
> I salt and pepper before flouring, then fry in hot
> peanut oil to brown the breading w/o overcooking the beef.
> Unfortunately, my picky-picky family doesn't like it much. Tonight
> it's sirloin on the grill over good wood.
:) It's hanger steak tonight for me. I'll roast some baby yukons and
broccoli for a fuss free dinner.
Making strawberry salsa to bring to a bbq tomorrow. The problem with
strawberries is that it has to be made at the last minute or else they
look icky, so I can't do it tonight.
Strawberry and Avocado Salsa
http://www.closetcooking.com/2011/06/mojito-grilled-fish-tacos-with.html
Makes 2 cups
Prep Time: 15 minutes
Ingredients
1 1/4 cups strawberries, cut into small pieces
1/2 cup avocado, cut into small pieces
1 jalapeno, finely diced
1/4 cup red onion, finely diced
1 lime, juice and zest
1 handful cilantro, chopped
salt and pepper to taste
Directions
1. Mix everything.
Bryan
> > If you use one of those mallets:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_tenderizer
> > and buy sirloins when they are on sale, chicken fried steak can be
> > nice and tender.
>
> I inherited my husband's mother's meat tenderizer, which has a handle.
> My DD gave me a round, well weighted, reversible (teeth on one side,
> flat on the other) one from William's Sonoma for xmas 2010, but I'm
> sorry to say that I haven't test driven it yet.
>
> > I salt and pepper before flouring, then fry in hot
> > peanut oil to brown the breading w/o overcooking the beef.
> > Unfortunately, my picky-picky family doesn't like it much. Tonight
> > it's sirloin on the grill over good wood.
>
> :) It's hanger steak tonight for me. I'll roast some baby yukons and
> broccoli for a fuss free dinner.
>
> Making strawberry salsa to bring to a bbq tomorrow. The problem with
> strawberries is that it has to be made at the last minute or else they
> look icky, so I can't do it tonight.
>
>
> Makes 2 cups
>
> Prep Time: 15 minutes
>
> Ingredients
>
> 1 1/4 cups strawberries, cut into small pieces
> 1/2 cup avocado, cut into small pieces
> 1 jalapeno, finely diced
> 1/4 cup red onion, finely diced
> 1 lime, juice and zest
> 1 handful cilantro, chopped
> salt and pepper to taste
>
> Directions
>
> 1. Mix everything.
>
ones high in acid like citrus or tomatoes.
--Bryan
sf
<bryang...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In general, all fruits should be cut up at the last minute other than
> ones high in acid like citrus or tomatoes.
I'm the most concerned about strawberries. If it was peach,
cantaloupe or watermelon, I'd make it tonight.
isw
Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 23:29:58 -0700, isw wrote:
>
> > In article <zqhi9kgu...@sqwertz.com>,
> > Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote:
> >
> >> If I cook CFS at home, which is rare, why not
> >> spend the extra $1.50 and get a thin slice of ribeye or even strip and
> >> use that instead of some cheap round?
> >
> > I agree, sort of, but this was, after all an experiment. But, there's a
> > pretty good argument to be made that tender beef is less flavorful.
>
> I didn't mean to dis your ingenuity or sacrifice in the name of
> science. Lord knows I do a lot of experimentation myself.
>
> Is it reall y necessary to keep a piece of meat at 130F for 48 hours?
> Wouldn't it come up to temp within 8 hours (assuming circulating
> water) or does it benefit somehow from being held at that temperature
> for that long a period?
Yes. It's not just the temperature you bring the meat up to. The benefit
is that the parts of the meat that make it tough and stringy will get
dissolved over time. The point of fairly precise temperature control is
that the "cookedness" of the meat -- rare, medium-rare, etc. -- is
dependent almost solely on the maximum temperature the meat reaches at
any time during the cooking process, and is completely independent of
how long it stays at that temperature.
Isaac
isw
<94b0ae54-e11e-4a44...@k27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Bryan <bryang...@gmail.com> wrote:
Then cook it to the temperature you like. The sous vide process still
separates the doneness of the meat from what happens to the coating.
Isaac
mike1234
'sf[_9_ Wrote:
> ;1632244']On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 05:18:41 +0000 (UTC),
> spo...@speedymail.org (Steve
> Pope) wrote:
> -
> isw i...@witzend.com wrote:
> -
> Yesterday, I seasoned a piece of cubed beef (note that I did not pound
>
> it or otherwise attempt to further tenderize it at all), stuck it in a
>
> vacuum bag, and dropped it in a 145 F water bath. This evening, a good
>
> 24 hours later, I pulled it out, blotted it dry, did the
> flour-egg-flour
> thing, and pan-fried it quickly in hot oil. The fact that the meat was
>
> already cooked meant that I could fry it pretty hot to get a nice brown
>
> crust without having to worry about whether the middle was done too.
>
>
> was fork tender -- not "melt-in-your-mouth", but certainly a lot moreso
>
> than with my previous prep method.
>
> Since there isn't any real effort involved in the 24 hour sous vide
> part, I will be doing it that way again. I may try something like 48
> hours at about 130 F -- that might get me a tender, *rare* CFS, which
>
> Thanks for the report.
>
> Have you ever made CFS with rib steak (rather than cubed steak)?
> Would that be another possibility for the sous vide treatment?
> First boiled chicken fried steak and now breaded, boiled and fried rib
> eye? Stop the madness!
>
>
> Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
Really something to ponder over.Why have you tried all these?Just for
some stuff?
--
mike1234
Cheryl
> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 23:32:11 -0700, isw wrote:
>
>> Well, what I did was certainly tasty enough -- and as I said, it
>> certainly was not tough. I may try the same thing with a slab of
>> flatiron steak -- that's a lot more tender to start out with. But I'll
>> still give it about 24 hours in the water bath.
>
> I saw something on TV that claimed that flatiron/top blade was the
> second most tender piece of meat on the animal. I kinda have my
> doubts.
I believe it! Every one that I've cooked have been tender enough to cut
with a fork.
blake murphy
> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 23:32:11 -0700, isw wrote:
>
>> Well, what I did was certainly tasty enough -- and as I said, it
>> certainly was not tough. I may try the same thing with a slab of
>> flatiron steak -- that's a lot more tender to start out with. But I'll
>> still give it about 24 hours in the water bath.
>
> I saw something on TV that claimed that flatiron/top blade was the
> second most tender piece of meat on the animal. I kinda have my
> doubts.
>
> -sw
doesn't sound right to me, either.
your pal,
blake
sf
I ordered it *once* in a restaurant and was unimpressed. It wasn't
tender, IMO.
Cheryl
As someone with braces and having a hard time chewing, I rate flat iron
very high on the tender scale.
I've been hoping to get the braces off soon but the ortho who took over
for the one who moved on said another 6 months. Sheesh.
nurk_fred2000
> On Jul 1, 5:35 am, "Janet" <boxh...@maine.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Steve Pope wrote:
> > > isw <i...@witzend.com> wrote:
>
> > >> Yesterday, I seasoned a piece of cubed beef (note that I did not
> > >> pound it or otherwise attempt to further tenderize it at all), stuck
> > >> it in a vacuum bag, and dropped it in a 145 F water bath. This
> > >> evening, a good 24 hours later, I pulled it out, blotted it dry, did
> > >> the flour-egg-flour thing, and pan-fried it quickly in hot oil. The
> > >> fact that the meat was already cooked meant that I could fry it
> > >> pretty hot to get a nice brown crust without having to worry about
> > >> whether the middle was done too.
>
> > >> Anyhow, the experiment was a success. The beef had a crispy crust,
> > >> and was fork tender -- not "melt-in-your-mouth", but certainly a lot
> > >> moreso than with my previous prep method.
>
> > >> Since there isn't any real effort involved in the 24 hour sous vide
> > >> part, I will be doing it that way again. I may try something like 48
> > >> hours at about 130 F -- that might get me a tender, *rare* CFS, which
> > >> would be an interesting thing indeed.
>
>
> > > Have you ever made CFS with rib steak (rather than cubed steak)?
> > > Would that be another possibility for the sous vide treatment?
>
>
> > I always made chicken fried steak with pounded round steak. It wasn't tough
> > at all.
>
> Ya...use round for sure.
***Doesn't SURPRISE any of us here Chemo that you would endorse the
"Douchbag Vid" cooking method..."Use round", ehhh...?...What, do you
eat out of a can...?...How about using sirloin and running it through
a machine 4 times per side (rotating it a quarter turn on each pass ~
repeat on side 2)...Bread the CFS and put in the refer for 30 min
before cooking in clarified butter either on a flat top or well
seasoned iron skillet...
I won't bother with the peppered cream gravy Chemo, you're probably
still using 2% milk, LMAO...That recipe you put up on creamed spinach
a while back I'm sure made everyone puke or squirt...:-)
sf
wrote:
> As someone with braces and having a hard time chewing, I rate flat iron
> very high on the tender scale.
>
There ya go with differing experiences. I expected something better.