Part 2: 100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do...
Gregory Morrow
November 5 2009
100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do (Part 2)
By Bruce Buschel
"This is the second half of the 100 do's and don'ts from last week's post.
Again, this list is for one particular restaurant, mine, which is under
construction in Bridgehampton, N.Y., and will, with any luck, open this
spring. I realize that every deli needs a wisecracking waiter, most pizza
joints can handle heavy metal, and burgers always taste better when
delivered by a server with tattoos and tongue piercing(s).
Not even a hundred suggestions can cover all the bases, so one is grateful
for the many comments following the 50, including striking "you guys" from
the restaurant lexicon and making sure the alcohol order is taken
lickety-split. Thanks for all of the help:
51. If there is a service charge, alert your guests when you present the
bill. It's not a secret or a trick.
52. Know your menu inside and out. If you serve Balsam Farm candy-striped
beets, know something about Balsam Farm and candy-striped beets.
53. Do not let guests double-order unintentionally; remind the guest who
orders ratatouille that zucchini comes with the entree.
54. If there is a prix fixe, let guests know about it. Do not force anyone
to ask for the "special" menu.
55. Do not serve an amuse-bouche without detailing the ingredients.
Allergies are a serious matter; peanut oil can kill. (This would also be a
good time to ask if anyone has any allergies.)
56. Do not ignore a table because it is not your table. Stop, look, listen,
lend a hand. (Whether tips are pooled or not.)
57. Bring the pepper mill with the appetizer. Do not make people wait or beg
for a condiment.
58. Do not bring judgment with the ketchup. Or mustard. Or hot sauce. Or
whatever condiment is requested.
59. Do not leave place settings that are not being used.
60. Bring all the appetizers at the same time, or do not bring the
appetizers. Same with entrees and desserts.
61. Do not stand behind someone who is ordering. Make eye contact. Thank him
or her.
62. Do not fill the water glass every two minutes, or after each sip. You'll
make people nervous.
62(a). Do not let a glass sit empty for too long.
63. Never blame the chef or the busboy or the hostess or the weather for
anything that goes wrong. Just make it right.
64. Specials, spoken and printed, should always have prices.
65. Always remove used silverware and replace it with new.
66. Do not return to the guest anything that falls on the floor - be it
napkin, spoon, menu or soy sauce.
67. Never stack the plates on the table. They make a racket. Shhhhhh.
68. Do not reach across one guest to serve another.
69. If a guest is having trouble making a decision, help out. If someone
wants to know your life story, keep it short. If someone wants to meet the
chef, make an effort.
70. Never deliver a hot plate without warning the guest. And never ask a
guest to pass along that hot plate.
71. Do not race around the dining room as if there is a fire in the kitchen
or a medical emergency. (Unless there is a fire in the kitchen or a medical
emergency.)
72. Do not serve salad on a freezing cold plate; it usually advertises the
fact that it has not been freshly prepared.
73. Do not bring soup without a spoon. Few things are more frustrating than
a bowl of hot soup with no spoon.
74. Let the guests know the restaurant is out of something before the guests
read the menu and order the missing dish.
75. Do not ask if someone is finished when others are still eating that
course.
76. Do not ask if a guest is finished the very second the guest is finished.
Let guests digest, savor, reflect.
77. Do not disappear.
78. Do not ask, "Are you still working on that?" Dining is not work - until
questions like this are asked.
79. When someone orders a drink "straight up," determine if he wants it
"neat" - right out of the bottle - or chilled. Up is up, but "straight up"
is debatable.
80. Never insist that a guest settle up at the bar before sitting down;
transfer the tab.
81. Know what the bar has in stock before each meal.
82. If you drip or spill something, clean it up, replace it, offer to pay
for whatever damage you may have caused. Refrain from touching the wet spots
on the guest.
83. Ask if your guest wants his coffee with dessert or after. Same with an
after-dinner drink.
84. Do not refill a coffee cup compulsively. Ask if the guest desires a
refill.
84(a). Do not let an empty coffee cup sit too long before asking if a refill
is desired.
85. Never bring a check until someone asks for it. Then give it to the
person who asked for it.
86. If a few people signal for the check, find a neutral place on the table
to leave it.
87. Do not stop your excellent service after the check is presented or paid.
88. Do not ask if a guest needs change. Just bring the change.
89. Never patronize a guest who has a complaint or suggestion; listen, take
it seriously, address it.
90. If someone is getting agitated or effusive on a cellphone, politely
suggest he keep it down or move away from other guests.
91. If someone complains about the music, do something about it, without
upsetting the ambiance. (The music is not for the staff - it's for the
customers.)
92. Never play a radio station with commercials or news or talking of any
kind.
93. Do not play brass - no brassy Broadway songs, brass bands, marching
bands, or big bands that feature brass, except a muted flugelhorn.
94. Do not play an entire CD of any artist. If someone doesn't like
Frightened Rabbit or Michael Bubl�, you have just ruined a meal.
95. Never hover long enough to make people feel they are being watched or
hurried, especially when they are figuring out the tip or signing for the
check.
96. Do not say anything after a tip - be it good, bad, indifferent - except,
"Thank you very much."
97. If a guest goes gaga over a particular dish, get the recipe for him or
her.
98. Do not wear too much makeup or jewelry. You know you have too much
jewelry when it jingles and/or draws comments.
99. Do not show frustration. Your only mission is to serve. Be patient. It
is not easy.
100. Guests, like servers, come in all packages. Show a "good table" your
appreciation with a free glass of port, a plate of biscotti or something
else management approves.
Bonus Track: As Bill Gates has said, "Your most unhappy customers are your
greatest source of learning." (Of course, Microsoft is one of the most
litigious companies in history, so one can take Mr. Gates's counsel with a
grain of salt. Gray sea salt is a nice addition to any table.) "
</>
Copyright 2009 The New York Times Company Privacy Policy NYTimes.com 620
Eighth Avenue New York, NY 10018
Ed Pawlowski
"Gregory Morrow" <berlinw...@dimauer.net> wrote in message
news:v9qdnVqvZM5NyGvX...@earthlink.com...
> Last week we had the first 50, this week the last half of the list:
>
> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-2/?pagemode=print
>
> November 5 2009
>
> 60. Bring all the appetizers at the same time, or do not bring the
> appetizers. Same with entrees and desserts.
>
>>
> 78. Do not ask, "Are you still working on that?" Dining is not work -
> until
> questions like this are asked.
>
> 88. Do not ask if a guest needs change. Just bring the change.
Now you can see my pet peeves.
Bringing appetizers at different times though, is not nearly as bad as
bringing the entree before the appetizer. While that ha never happed at a
fine dining place, I had it happen in a 99 (New England chain) and both came
at the same time at an Applebees just down the street from the other place.
Kalmia
wrote:
> Last week we had the first 50, this week the last half of the list:
>
>
> 95. Never hover long enough to make people feel they are being watched or
> hurried, especially when they are figuring out the tip or signing for the
> check.
>
> 96. Do not say anything after a tip - be it good, bad, indifferent - except,
> "Thank you very much."
>
> 97. If a guest goes gaga over a particular dish, get the recipe for him or
> her.
>
> 98. Do not wear too much makeup or jewelry. You know you have too much
> jewelry when it jingles and/or draws comments.
>
> 99. Do not show frustration. Your only mission is to serve. Be patient. It
> is not easy.
>
> 100. Guests, like servers, come in all packages. Show a "good table" your
> appreciation with a free glass of port, a plate of biscotti or something
> else management approves.
>
> Bonus Track: As Bill Gates has said, "Your most unhappy customers are your
> greatest source of learning." (Of course, Microsoft is one of the most
> litigious companies in history, so one can take Mr. Gates's counsel with a
> grain of salt. Gray sea salt is a nice addition to any table.) "
>
> </>
>
> Copyright 2009 The New York Times Company Privacy Policy NYTimes.com 620
> Eighth Avenue New York, NY 10018
When you serve something and the customer says. " I asked for
(something else) ", don't say "No you didn't". I've witnessed this.
Then she dropped the bread basket from about 5 inches. Tip reflected
the above.
Not sure if mentioned, but don't clear tables when a customer is
waiting for his check or change.
TELL what comes with a meal. Asking if they want this or that makes a
customer feel awkward and cheap if he has to ask if it's extra. I
blame menu design and graphics for a lot of these misunderstandings.
Kalmia
>
>
> 95. Never hover long enough to make people feel they are being watched or
> hurried, especially when they are figuring out the tip or signing for the
> check.
>
> 96. Do not say anything after a tip - be it good, bad, indifferent - except,
> "Thank you very much."
>
> 97. If a guest goes gaga over a particular dish, get the recipe for him or
> her.
>
> 98. Do not wear too much makeup or jewelry. You know you have too much
> jewelry when it jingles and/or draws comments.
>
> 99. Do not show frustration. Your only mission is to serve. Be patient. It
> is not easy.
>
> 100. Guests, like servers, come in all packages. Show a "good table" your
> appreciation with a free glass of port, a plate of biscotti or something
> else management approves.
>
> Bonus Track: As Bill Gates has said, "Your most unhappy customers are your
> greatest source of learning." (Of course, Microsoft is one of the most
> litigious companies in history, so one can take Mr. Gates's counsel with a
> grain of salt. Gray sea salt is a nice addition to any table.) "
>
> </>
>
> Copyright 2009 The New York Times Company Privacy Policy NYTimes.com 620
> Eighth Avenue New York, NY 10018
I forgot. Don't ask what they want to drink before the rear has had a
chance to warm the chair. This seems to be the new thing. Also,
swiping dishes when yer stil chewin'.
Nancy Young
> Last week we had the first 50, this week the last half of the list:
>
> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-2/?pagemode=print
Thanks for the fun threads.
> 56. Do not ignore a table because it is not your table. Stop, look,
> listen, lend a hand. (Whether tips are pooled or not.)
That's a peeve of mine. Waiters walking by pretending to be
oblivious that you're looking for your waiter. Go get them or
ask if you can help! Maybe it's just me, that's how I worked.
> 58. Do not bring judgment with the ketchup. Or mustard. Or hot sauce.
> Or whatever condiment is requested.
Not even steak sauce??!
> 66. Do not return to the guest anything that falls on the floor - be
> it napkin, spoon, menu or soy sauce.
Duh? Is this a problem in a lot of restaurants?
> 67. Never stack the plates on the table. They make a racket. Shhhhhh.
Luckily that seems to be the domain of the diner. Where else
would I tolerate a bus boy with a big plastic tub, clattering the
dirty dishes at the empty table next to you.
> 76. Do not ask if a guest is finished the very second the guest is
> finished. Let guests digest, savor, reflect.
>
> 77. Do not disappear.
Grrr. I understand, they have things they have to do, but don't
make it longer than a minute or two.
> 78. Do not ask, "Are you still working on that?" Dining is not work -
> until questions like this are asked.
I've lost some good fries that way. Yeah, okay, I'm done.
> 80. Never insist that a guest settle up at the bar before sitting
> down; transfer the tab.
I think some places have weird laws about that, but I don't
like that I'm stuck sitting at the bar waiting for a table, then
I get stuck having to pay two tabs. Not that I ever wait for
tables anymore, but I've been there.
> 85. Never bring a check until someone asks for it. Then give it to the
> person who asked for it.
It's touchy. I agree, give it to the person who asked.
> 91. If someone complains about the music, do something about it,
> without upsetting the ambiance. (The music is not for the staff -
> it's for the customers.)
I like loud music as much as the next person, but when I'm
having trouble making my order heard over the din, it's too damned
loud. I know you were a singles bar last night, that was then.
> 97. If a guest goes gaga over a particular dish, get the recipe for
> him or her.
I don't know about that. I only asked for a recipe once and I only got
it because I was a very good customer ... even then the guy had
to figure out not-restaurant size ingredients. I don't want to be the
other table waiting for my dessert because the waiter is friggin
steaming off wine labels and procuring recipes.
nancy
Jean B.
or even after the entrees at our favorite restaurant.
--
Jean B.
James Silverton
Is it the only restaurant in town?
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Ed Pawlowski
"Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote in message
>>
>> Bringing appetizers at different times though, is not nearly as bad as
>> bringing the entree before the appetizer. While that ha never happed at a
>> fine dining place, I had it happen in a 99 (New England chain) and both
>> came at the same time at an Applebees just down the street from the other
>> place.
> Sigh. I keep forgetting that the appetizers tend to arrive with or even
> after the entrees at our favorite restaurant.
If you have the time and the place is not overly crowded, we've often not
ordered our entree until the appetizer is brought to the table. Part of the
problem is our system of eating compared to a restaurant in other countries
with multi-course meals. We often demand fast service so we can get to the
movie or get on with shopping etc. If we are out with friends of a good
meal, I expect to take 2 to 3 hours. Most families on the way from work and
school are in a hurry at the local chain eatery.
Jean B.
she doesn't get their Japanese curry almost every week, so that
failure is not fatal. The point is that I shouldn't order apps,
thinking that we will be eating them as we wait for the entrees!
--
Jean B.
sf
wrote:
>Bringing appetizers at different times though, is not nearly as bad as
>bringing the entree before the appetizer. While that ha never happed at a
>fine dining place, I had it happen in a 99 (New England chain) and both came
>at the same time at an Applebees just down the street from the other place.
That's the point you tell the server you don't want the appetizer
anymore.
--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
sf
<tween...@mypacks.net> wrote:
>Not sure if mentioned, but don't clear tables when a customer is
>waiting for his check or change.
Right. I hate dirty dishes on the table. Make sure the dirties are
cleared before that.
Dave Smith
>> Bringing appetizers at different times though, is not nearly as bad as
>> bringing the entree before the appetizer. While that ha never happed
>> at a fine dining place, I had it happen in a 99 (New England chain)
>> and both came at the same time at an Applebees just down the street
>> from the other place.
>>
> Sigh. I keep forgetting that the appetizers tend to arrive with or even
> after the entrees at our favorite restaurant.
And it is still you favourite restaurant? Perhaps you should tell your
server that you want your first course first, not second of with the second.
sf
>Sigh. I keep forgetting that the appetizers tend to arrive with
>or even after the entrees at our favorite restaurant.
You're a regular and you stand for that??? OMG.
Dave Smith
> When you serve something and the customer says. " I asked for
> (something else) ", don't say "No you didn't". I've witnessed this.
> Then she dropped the bread basket from about 5 inches. Tip reflected
> the above.
>
> Not sure if mentioned, but don't clear tables when a customer is
> waiting for his check or change.
I have no problems with servers removing dirty dishes when I am finished
whatever is on them. Servers are sometimes very busy, and if they are on
their way past the table it just seems to me to be more efficient to
take them on the way by rather than having to make a special trip for them.
sf
>The point is that I shouldn't order apps,
>thinking that we will be eating them as we wait for the entrees!
Have you ever told the server you want the appetizer "now"?
cshenk
> Last week we had the first 50, this week the last half of the list:
> 64. Specials, spoken and printed, should always have prices.
- I find it frustrating to not know. I do not want to have to ask. Equaly
frustrating is presenting price first, then item. I want to hear what it
is, then the price. By telling price first, you *assume* I am cheap and show
it. I may be a little cheap, but I don't want it shoved in my face that i
may not be able to afford the 'lobster thermadore'. Keep in mind many
guests have a finite amount to spend and they normally want to leave a good
tip is the service is good. This is just a little piece of it.
> 73. Do not bring soup without a spoon. Few things are more frustrating
> than
> a bowl of hot soup with no spoon.
- Agreed and sadly, one of the more common flaws. I dunno why.
> 85. Never bring a check until someone asks for it. Then give it to the
> person who asked for it.
- This is a high hit. It embarasses my husband publically who has a
disability that he would rather not be known. *I* ask for the check and I
expect it to be handed to me. Handing it automatically to my husband after
I've asked for it isnt just sexist, it's rude and forces him to pass it to
me while saying something about 'having forgotten his glasses'. It's
positively disgusting when a lady waiter does it and simpers at him as if to
indicate a big tip is on order.
One more not listed, and sadly *quite* common. Treating a table of ladies
as second class guests with the assumption they will tip badly. This is a
self fulfilling prophesy. I don't appreciate cold food, lack of a spoon
for my soup, failure to fill my coffee cup to the point where I have to get
up and find the pot on my own, or any of the other ills lady diners
sometimes face. In my experience, ladies who are fellow executives, tip
*better* than their male counterparts, given same level of service. Women
make money and want the same service. Get over it.
Ed Pawlowski
"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:e2rdf5hjat1n3ktp3...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:28:31 -0500, "Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote:
>
>>Sigh. I keep forgetting that the appetizers tend to arrive with
>>or even after the entrees at our favorite restaurant.
>
> You're a regular and you stand for that??? OMG.
>
Maybe now it is routine and they think she wants it that way. . I can hear
it in the kitchen. "This order is for Jean B so make sure the entrees are
ready along with the apps."
Nancy Young
Sometimes you take the good with the bad. If I was eating there
all the time, I'd probably take to ordering the appetizers without
ordering dinner until they arrive.
nancy
Debbie
or you could order apps and order your entree when you have finished them.
Debbie
Debbie
"cshenk" <csh...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:epCJm.4819$Zu5....@newsfe24.iad...
Single diners also experience lesser service imo, as though they can wait
because they aren't doing anything special anyway.
Debbie
brooklyn1
Many restaurants will be happy to prepare appetizers (and anything
else on their menu) to go. That's typical of the kosher deli
restaurant, there's a seating area and a counter area... anything on
the seating menu is available at the counter... in the old days
there'd be a bakery on premises... along with danish almost always
brought home bobka and mandlebrot. Most times when I eat at a Chinese
restaurant I don't count on just left overs to bring home, I also
order specific dishes to bring home for the next day's brunch,
especially their appetizers; egg rolls, fried wontons, and spare ribs,
but also wanton soup and fly lice, and various soft noodle dishes like
lo mein and yatka mein... all are easily reheatable. I really enjoy
Chinese noodle dishes but I've never yet ordered a pasta dish to take
home, wouldn't ever bring home left over pasta... I don't find 'talian
food all that tasty... I would never choose 'talian over Chinese. In
fact of all cousines Italian is very last on my list, 'talian
restaurant fare is the most boring cousine on the planet... most times
after studying their menu fowards and backwards I settle on a plain
cheese pizza. The only notable Italian food I've ever eaten was in
East Boston and only their grinders excited me, they definitely know
to build a sammich. Pasta dishes do nothing for me, I don't care that
the dagos make pasta in a zillion different shapes, it's still all
boring pasta... and in fact I much prefer the texture of ramen noodles
to pasta. Years ago there was good pizza around, nowadays no one
makes decent pizza... is why so many choose to make their own or buy
frozen. And the prices... I mean pizza is a friggin' cheese sandwich,
why should a mozz melt cost $20... sheesh!
sf
>I may be a little cheap, but I don't want it shoved in my face that i
>may not be able to afford the 'lobster thermadore'.
I don't even look at it as something I can't afford. I don't order
the most expensive item on the menu just because I can. I look for
value just like the next person. Sometimes I want the expensive one
and will order it anyway, sometimes I don't. Some decisions are made
on price alone. When I'm dithering over my choices, I usually go with
the less (least) expensive one... especially if it's my first time
eating in the restaurant.
brooklyn1
>>> Jean wrote on Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:28:31 -0500:
>
>>>> Sigh. I keep forgetting that the appetizers tend to arrive
>>>> with or even after the entrees at our favorite restaurant.
>>> My daughter thinks she is dying if
>>> she doesn't get their Japanese curry almost every week, so that
>>> failure is not fatal. The point is that I shouldn't order apps,
>>> thinking that we will be eating them as we wait for the entrees!
I'm not too fond of Japanese dining, I find their dishes too fussy and
skimppy and their service not nearly fussy enough, in fact Japanee
restaurant service is downright slovenly and served totally
mannerless, they practically throw the food at you... go know the land
of save-face produces egos of Mothra proportions and knows nothing of
humility/humbleness. Maybe you should make a Chinese restaurant your
favorite... I've never experienced a NYC Chinese restaurant that
serves courses out of order, and their service is impeccable.
James Silverton
>>
>>> 73. Do not bring soup without a spoon. Few things are more
>>> frustrating than a bowl of hot soup with no spoon.
>>
>> - Agreed and sadly, one of the more common flaws. I dunno
>> why.
>>
Perhaps, you were in a stubbornly authentic Japanese restaurant? :-) It
isn't at all difficult to just drink from the bowl tho' having
chopsticks available for noodles is advisable.
Omelet
brooklyn1 <grave...@verizon.net> wrote:
> The only notable Italian food I've ever eaten was in
> East Boston and only their grinders excited me, they definitely know
> to build a sammich. Pasta dishes do nothing for me, I don't care that
> the dagos make pasta in a zillion different shapes, it's still all
> boring pasta... and in fact I much prefer the texture of ramen noodles
> to pasta.
Here is the thing about Italian food. Most Americans seem to think it's
all about Pasta, Pizzas and variations on that theme.
That is not really "authentic" Italian food! Do some googling and you
will see what I mean. From what I understand, it depends on the region.
Real Italian food has a rather large variety. Veggies, cheeses, fresh
ways of preparing things. I'm fixin' to make some _real_ Italian food.
Insalata Caprese. Now THAT is Italian. :-)
When I start eating more carbs again, Polenta is going to be on the menu
too. LOTS of variations on that theme.
I'm sure others here can come up with a bunch of other good Italian
recipes that don't involve pizza or pasta...
From what I understand, Pasta came to Italy when it was brought back to
Italy from CHINA. It did not originate in Italy.
Neither did Pizza...
I'm not sure I recall correctly, but I think Pizza was originally German?
--
Peace! Om
"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein
Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
recfood...@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: recfoodrecip...@yahoogroups.com
Steve Pope
>Here is the thing about Italian food. Most Americans seem to think it's
>all about Pasta, Pizzas and variations on that theme.
>That is not really "authentic" Italian food!
Sure it is. It's not "all about" pizza and pasta but these
are important parts of Italian food, especially in the south.
Up in northern Italy they eat weird other stuff.
Steve
Ed Pawlowski
> On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 07:42:26 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Bringing appetizers at different times though, is not nearly as bad as
>>bringing the entree before the appetizer. While that ha never happed at a
>>fine dining place, I had it happen in a 99 (New England chain) and both
>>came
>>at the same time at an Applebees just down the street from the other
>>place.
>
> That's the point you tell the server you don't want the appetizer
> anymore.
In the case of Applbees, the manager came to the table to apologize before
we could say anything. He gave as a dessert at NC. Fair enough for me.
Kalmia
> >Not sure if mentioned, but don't clear tables when a customer is
> >waiting for his check or change.
>
> Right. I hate dirty dishes on the table. Make sure the dirties are
> cleared before that.
>
> --
> I love cooking with wine.
> Sometimes I even put it in the food.
I should have been more specific. I'm tawkin about sitting there
waiting for your check, and they're off clearing OTHER tables. Sorry.
All the more reason for a busboy staff - wait people have enough to do
without clearing and setting tables. "When i run MY resto...."
Hey, a new thread!
Omelet
spo...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
I prefer the "other stuff". I prefer not to live on a starch based
diet...
Steve Pope
> spo...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
>> Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Here is the thing about Italian food. Most Americans seem to think it's
>> >all about Pasta, Pizzas and variations on that theme.
>>
>> >That is not really "authentic" Italian food!
>> Sure it is. It's not "all about" pizza and pasta but these
>> are important parts of Italian food, especially in the south.
>> Up in northern Italy they eat weird other stuff.
>I prefer the "other stuff". I prefer not to live on a starch based
>diet...
Well, you may not prefer it but most Italians eat between zero
and about three ounces of meat or fish per day... maybe about
1/3 the amount Americans do. The flour used for pizza and pasta
in Italy is relatively high protein, 13 or 14 percent so it's
not actually all that unbalanced. Whereas bad pizza in the U.S. is
made from ultra-white flour that is maybe only 5% protein.
There are of course, tons of vegetables eaten in Italy.
For some reason, especially in the south -- I think because
they can grow them year round there.
Another thing to remember in Italy is, contrary to what
guide books say, you do not have to order an entire pizza
per person at a pizza restaurant. It's perfectly acceptable
to split a pizza (the word for this is "diviso"). That brings the
starch intake per person down to a manageable level.
Steve
brooklyn1
wrote:
>In article <herdf55r069kne4pi...@4ax.com>,
> brooklyn1 <grave...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> The only notable Italian food I've ever eaten was in
>> East Boston and only their grinders excited me, they definitely know
>> to build a sammich. Pasta dishes do nothing for me, I don't care that
>> the dagos make pasta in a zillion different shapes, it's still all
>> boring pasta... and in fact I much prefer the texture of ramen noodles
>> to pasta.
>
>Here is the thing about Italian food. Most Americans seem to think it's
>all about Pasta, Pizzas and variations on that theme.
>
>That is not really "authentic" Italian food! Do some googling and you
>will see what I mean. From what I understand, it depends on the region.
>
We all know that but still Italian restaurants in the US all serve the
same basic menu... and so do restaurants in Italy, they make a few
changes as per region but the majority of dishes still involve pasta,
bread, and tomato sauce. Italian food is primarilly carbs and fat
laden sauce, they use meat sparingly, like Chinese dishes. The
Chinese do much better with vegetables, Italians serve salads that
wouldn't feed a bunny rabbit... I swear they count the friggin' leaves
of lettuce. That Italians are generous with food is a myth... no one
can slice a piece of veal thinner. I grew up in an Italian
neighborhood, yes, they do count the macaronis. Back then Itlians
rarel used the word pasta, they said macaronis. Macaroni predates
pasta by a few hundred years.
Ed Pawlowski
>> person who asked for it.
>
> - This is a high hit. It embarasses my husband publically who has a
> disability that he would rather not be known. *I* ask for the check and I
> expect it to be handed to me. Handing it automatically to my husband
> after I've asked for it isnt just sexist, it's rude and forces him to pass
> it to me while saying something about 'having forgotten his glasses'.
> It's positively disgusting when a lady waiter does it and simpers at him
> as if to indicate a big tip is on order.
I'm curious as to what percentage of bill are paid by the woman at the table
these day. In the 1950's it probably was less than 1% but today is probably
getting near half.
An OT story. Friends of mine, husband and wife, own metal processing
business. They were going to buy a $200,000 machine and met with a few
sales reps. At one meeting, Joan asked some technical questions and the rep
would look squarely at the husband to give the answer. At the conclusion
of the meeting, the sales rep asked husband for an order. He said, "you'll
have to talk to Joan, she makes that decision". The next few minutes were
rather awkward.
cshenk
53. Do not bring soup without a spoon. Few things are more
>>>> frustrating than a bowl of hot soup with no spoon.
>>>
>>> - Agreed and sadly, one of the more common flaws. I dunno
>>> why.
>>>
> Perhaps, you were in a stubbornly authentic Japanese restaurant? :-) It
> isn't at all difficult to just drink from the bowl tho' having chopsticks
> available for noodles is advisable.
Negative. In all but the cheapest noodle shops, the asians also use a
spoon. It's just not shaped the same being deeper and more rectangular.
I'm talking American restraunts either way.
James Silverton
> 53. Do not bring soup without a spoon. Few things are more
>>>>> frustrating than a bowl of hot soup with no spoon.
>>>>
>>>> - Agreed and sadly, one of the more common flaws. I dunno
>>>> why.
>>>>
>> Perhaps, you were in a stubbornly authentic Japanese
>> restaurant? :-) It isn't at all difficult to just drink from the bowl
>> tho' having chopsticks available for noodles is
>> advisable.
> Negative. In all but the cheapest noodle shops, the asians
> also use a spoon. It's just not shaped the same being deeper and more
> rectangular.
I know that I am usually given a porcelain or plastic spoon with Far
Eastern soups in this country. I have never been to Japan but my
searches on the web indicate that slurping miso soup from the bowl is
perfectly acceptable and, in fact, usual.
cshenk
> "cshenk" wrote
> I'm curious as to what percentage of bill are paid by the woman at the
> table these day. In the 1950's it probably was less than 1% but today is
> probably getting near half.
Dunno, but it's been 60 years. 'Grunch more' do for it?
> An OT story. Friends of mine, husband and wife, own metal processing
> business. They were going to buy a $200,000 machine and met with a few
> sales reps. At one meeting, Joan asked some technical questions and the
> rep would look squarely at the husband to give the answer. At the
> conclusion of the meeting, the sales rep asked husband for an order. He
> said, "you'll have to talk to Joan, she makes that decision". The next
> few minutes were rather awkward.
Happens all the time. Don's right straight up when he sees it. If t;s
something i handle, he tells them right away talk the money to my wife.
There was a time when this might have been embarrasing, but today it's
pretty common for a person to tell who's listeining and speak the deal that
direction.
Don decides on over 50% of the stuff but I do the finances end of it.
Shrug, it's just what works for us and nothing special.
cshenk
> cshenk wrote
>> 53. Do not bring soup without a spoon. Few things are more
>>> Perhaps, you were in a stubbornly authentic Japanese
>>> restaurant? :-) It isn't at all difficult to just drink from the bowl
>>> tho' having chopsticks available for noodles is
>>> advisable.
>
>> Negative. In all but the cheapest noodle shops, the asians
>> also use a spoon. It's just not shaped the same being deeper and more
>> rectangular.
>
> I know that I am usually given a porcelain or plastic spoon with Far
> Eastern soups in this country. I have never been to Japan but my searches
> on the web indicate that slurping miso soup from the bowl is perfectly
> acceptable and, in fact, usual.
It is acceptable to drink from the bowl in all but the 100$ and up plate
places, but only the cheapest ones have a spoon there.
Mark Thorson
>
> Last week we had the first 50, this week the last half of the list:
>
> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-2/?pagemode=print
And the rebuttal here:
James Silverton
According to Dave Lowry's "A Connosseurs Guide to Sushi", "Soups in the
sushi-ya and other Japanese restaurants are meant to be sipped without
the intercession of a spoon. If you don't look Japanese, the server
might bring a spoon to the table". Lowry is regarded as an authority and
you might have been recognizable as non-Japanese :-)
cshenk
> cshenk wrote
>>>> 53. Do not bring soup without a spoon. Few things are more
>
>>>>> Perhaps, you were in a stubbornly authentic Japanese
>>>>> restaurant? :-) It isn't at all difficult to just drink
>>>>> from the bowl tho' having chopsticks available for noodles is
>>>>> advisable.
> According to Dave Lowry's "A Connosseurs Guide to Sushi", "Soups in the
> sushi-ya and other Japanese restaurants are meant to be sipped without the
> intercession of a spoon. If you don't look Japanese, the server might
> bring a spoon to the table". Lowry is regarded as an authority and you
> might have been recognizable as non-Japanese :-)
You seem to not be getting it James. This is mostly in AMERICAN restraunts,
not the Japanese ones you tried to claim because i lived there. Even in in
Japan, JAPANESE are served spoons at all but the cheapest noodle shops.
I'm talking normal USA places.
Andy
$44j$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
> According to Dave Lowry's "A Connosseurs Guide to Sushi", "Soups in the
> sushi-ya and other Japanese restaurants are meant to be sipped without
> the intercession of a spoon. If you don't look Japanese, the server
> might bring a spoon to the table". Lowry is regarded as an authority
and
> you might have been recognizable as non-Japanese :-)
I had pho, a 1,001 variety of a Vietnamese meat and noodle soup dish
about two years ago and I sure didn't look Japanese OR Vietnamese, as the
waiter seeing me struggle with chopsticks came over and offered me a
fork! I thankfully accepted.
After polishing off the meat and noodles, I had little trouble slurping
down the remainder of the soup. I was eyed by the locals with some
measure of interest but by their manners and eating behavior I guessed I
was doing nothing wrong.
Andy
James Silverton
I'm afraid *you* did not notice the Smiley on my first response and
insisted on taking the reference to Japanese cooking seriously!
frie...@zoocrewphoto.com
I do pet photography, and I go to cat shows a lot. There was one
vendor coordinator who just couldn't grasp that I was the
photographer. I'm the one who talked to him on the phone (I'm pretty
sure I sound like a girl). And I done a previous show with him. So,
when I got there, he kept directing his questions to my helper (a
guy), who would then redirect him back to me. But he kept ignoring me
and talked to him. He died last year, so I'll never know if he managed
to catch on. Most of the vendor coordinators have recognized that my
name and voice are female, so they have no problem talking to me.
brooklyn1
What strange men... I talk to females all the time and it doesn't
bother me one bit, in fact I prefer it... of course I talk to their
chests. LOL
Craig Welch
> I forgot. Don't ask what they want to drink before the rear has had a
> chance to warm the chair. This seems to be the new thing. Also,
> swiping dishes when yer stil chewin'.
You know what else you forgot?
You forgot to TRIM. There's no reason to quote the ENTIRE FRICKIN POST.
Jean B.
> "Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote in message
>>> Bringing appetizers at different times though, is not nearly as bad as
>>> bringing the entree before the appetizer. While that ha never happed at a
>>> fine dining place, I had it happen in a 99 (New England chain) and both
>>> came at the same time at an Applebees just down the street from the other
>>> place.
>> after the entrees at our favorite restaurant.
>
> ordered our entree until the appetizer is brought to the table. Part of the
> problem is our system of eating compared to a restaurant in other countries
> with multi-course meals. We often demand fast service so we can get to the
> movie or get on with shopping etc. If we are out with friends of a good
> meal, I expect to take 2 to 3 hours. Most families on the way from work and
> school are in a hurry at the local chain eatery.
>
>
Thanks for the suggestion. We usually have a moderate amount of
time, so having actual courses would work.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
>
>>> Bringing appetizers at different times though, is not nearly as bad
>>> as bringing the entree before the appetizer. While that ha never
>>> happed at a fine dining place, I had it happen in a 99 (New England
>>> chain) and both came at the same time at an Applebees just down the
>>> street from the other place.
>>>
>> Sigh. I keep forgetting that the appetizers tend to arrive with or
>> even after the entrees at our favorite restaurant.
>
> server that you want your first course first, not second of with the
> second.
It is my daughter's favorite restaurant. She likes their Japanese
curry. *I* like actually being able to go someplace without her
objecting!
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:28:31 -0500, "Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote:
>
>> Sigh. I keep forgetting that the appetizers tend to arrive with
>> or even after the entrees at our favorite restaurant.
>
>
I have explained why we continue to go. Even if that weren't the
case, IMO it hardly rates an "OMG".
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:43:59 -0500, "Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote:
>
>> The point is that I shouldn't order apps,
>> thinking that we will be eating them as we wait for the entrees!
>
>
That may or may not work, since the waiters and waitresses don't
always speak much English.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
>> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:28:31 -0500, "Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sigh. I keep forgetting that the appetizers tend to arrive with
>>> or even after the entrees at our favorite restaurant.
>> You're a regular and you stand for that??? OMG.
>>
>
> it in the kitchen. "This order is for Jean B so make sure the entrees are
> ready along with the apps."
>
>
No, it's merely a vagary.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
> Jean B. wrote:
>> James Silverton wrote:
>>> Jean wrote on Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:28:31 -0500:
>
>>>> Sigh. I keep forgetting that the appetizers tend to arrive
>>>> with or even after the entrees at our favorite restaurant.
>>>
>>>
>> No, and it's not even in town. My daughter thinks she is dying if
>> she doesn't get their Japanese curry almost every week, so that
>> failure is not fatal. The point is that I shouldn't order apps,
>> thinking that we will be eating them as we wait for the entrees!
>
> all the time, I'd probably take to ordering the appetizers without
> ordering dinner until they arrive.
> nancy
Yes, to both points.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
>> James Silverton wrote:
>>> Jean wrote on Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:28:31 -0500:
>>>
>>>>> "Gregory Morrow" <berlinw...@dimauer.net> wrote in
>>>>> message news:v9qdnVqvZM5NyGvX...@earthlink.com...
>>>>>> Last week we had the first 50, this week the last half of
>>>>>> the list:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-2/?pagemode=print
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 60. Bring all the appetizers at the same time, or do not
>>>>>> bring the appetizers. Same with entrees and desserts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 78. Do not ask, "Are you still working on that?" Dining is
>>>>>> not work - until questions like this are asked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 88. Do not ask if a guest needs change. Just bring the
>>>>>> change.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now you can see my pet peeves.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bringing appetizers at different times though, is not nearly as bad
>>>>> as bringing the entree before the appetizer. While
>>>>> that ha never happed at a fine dining place, I had it happen in a
>>>>> 99 (New England chain) and both came at the same time at
>>>>> an Applebees just down the street from the other place.
>>>> with or even after the entrees at our favorite restaurant.
>>>
>>> Is it the only restaurant in town?
>>>
>> No, and it's not even in town. My daughter thinks she is dying if she
>> doesn't get their Japanese curry almost every week, so that failure is
>> not fatal. The point is that I shouldn't order apps, thinking that we
>> will be eating them as we wait for the entrees!
>>
>
>
> Debbie
yes, now I see that's the way to go. Maybe when they ask about
drinks at the beginning, we can order the apps "as we ponder".
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
> else on their menu) to go. That's typical of the kosher deli
> restaurant, there's a seating area and a counter area... anything on
> the seating menu is available at the counter... in the old days
> there'd be a bakery on premises... along with danish almost always
> brought home bobka and mandlebrot. Most times when I eat at a Chinese
> restaurant I don't count on just left overs to bring home, I also
> order specific dishes to bring home for the next day's brunch,
> especially their appetizers; egg rolls, fried wontons, and spare ribs,
> but also wanton soup and fly lice, and various soft noodle dishes like
> lo mein and yatka mein... all are easily reheatable. I really enjoy
> Chinese noodle dishes but I've never yet ordered a pasta dish to take
> home, wouldn't ever bring home left over pasta... I don't find 'talian
> food all that tasty... I would never choose 'talian over Chinese. In
> fact of all cousines Italian is very last on my list, 'talian
> restaurant fare is the most boring cousine on the planet... most times
> after studying their menu fowards and backwards I settle on a plain
> cheese pizza. The only notable Italian food I've ever eaten was in
> East Boston and only their grinders excited me, they definitely know
> to build a sammich. Pasta dishes do nothing for me, I don't care that
> the dagos make pasta in a zillion different shapes, it's still all
> boring pasta... and in fact I much prefer the texture of ramen noodles
> makes decent pizza... is why so many choose to make their own or buy
> frozen. And the prices... I mean pizza is a friggin' cheese sandwich,
> why should a mozz melt cost $20... sheesh!
>
>
Your ordering specifically to take things home reminds me... We
recently tried a new (to us) restaurant in Boston's Chinatown.
The dim sum servings, which are normally small, were HUGE. We
ended up taking a lot of food home. The prices are so low, that
specifically ordering items to take home would be a good cheap way
to go.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
>>>> Jean wrote on Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:28:31 -0500:
>>>>> Sigh. I keep forgetting that the appetizers tend to arrive
>>>>> with or even after the entrees at our favorite restaurant.
>
>>>> she doesn't get their Japanese curry almost every week, so that
>>>> failure is not fatal. The point is that I shouldn't order apps,
>>>> thinking that we will be eating them as we wait for the entrees!
>
> skimppy and their service not nearly fussy enough, in fact Japanee
> restaurant service is downright slovenly and served totally
> mannerless, they practically throw the food at you... go know the land
> of save-face produces egos of Mothra proportions and knows nothing of
> humility/humbleness. Maybe you should make a Chinese restaurant your
> favorite... I've never experienced a NYC Chinese restaurant that
> serves courses out of order, and their service is impeccable.
Well, this is not just my choice right now. My daughter's
favorite food is Japanese--esp. at the place in question. My new
house is situated very near both my favorite Chinese restaurant
and my favorite Indian restaurant though.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
> Debbie wrote on Sun, 8 Nov 2009 12:07:01 -0500:
>
>
>>>
>>>> 73. Do not bring soup without a spoon. Few things are more
>>>> frustrating than a bowl of hot soup with no spoon.
>>>
>>> - Agreed and sadly, one of the more common flaws. I dunno
>>> why.
>>>
> isn't at all difficult to just drink from the bowl tho' having
> chopsticks available for noodles is advisable.
>
sips the miso soup.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
> cshenk wrote on Sun, 8 Nov 2009 16:28:12 -0500:
>
>> 53. Do not bring soup without a spoon. Few things are more
>>>>>> frustrating than a bowl of hot soup with no spoon.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Agreed and sadly, one of the more common flaws. I dunno
>>>>> why.
>>>>>
>>> Perhaps, you were in a stubbornly authentic Japanese
>>> restaurant? :-) It isn't at all difficult to just drink from the bowl
>>> tho' having chopsticks available for noodles is
>>> advisable.
>
>> Negative. In all but the cheapest noodle shops, the asians
>> also use a spoon. It's just not shaped the same being deeper and more
>> rectangular.
>
> I know that I am usually given a porcelain or plastic spoon with Far
> Eastern soups in this country. I have never been to Japan but my
> searches on the web indicate that slurping miso soup from the bowl is
> perfectly acceptable and, in fact, usual.
>
fact, I haven't mastered the proper technique for eating Asian
noodle soups.
--
Jean B.
Goomba
> "cshenk" <csh...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> 85. Never bring a check until someone asks for it. Then give it to the
>>> person who asked for it.
>> - This is a high hit. It embarasses my husband publically who has a
>> disability that he would rather not be known. *I* ask for the check and I
>> expect it to be handed to me. Handing it automatically to my husband
>> after I've asked for it isnt just sexist, it's rude and forces him to pass
>> it to me while saying something about 'having forgotten his glasses'.
>> It's positively disgusting when a lady waiter does it and simpers at him
>> as if to indicate a big tip is on order.
>
> I'm curious as to what percentage of bill are paid by the woman at the table
> these day. In the 1950's it probably was less than 1% but today is probably
> getting near half.
I don't understand the problem of the check being handed to the wrong
diner when the other usually does the paying?? Just hand it over...the
waitdroid doesn't care who is paying so why is cshenk's husband
embarrassed to not be the one observed to hand over the payment? He can
always pretend to be the boy-toy of a Cougar. LOL
I pay the bill as often as my husband. Both our Amex cards are tied
together so it makes no difference in the end. And we're both
comfortable enough to not care what the waitdroid thinks.
The biggest mistake a salesman ever said to me was when I went to
looking at a car dealer and he suggested I bring my husband back. I did
as I value my husband's imput, but purchased it from an entirely
different salesperson. It was so long ago I can't remember if I let that
salesman know of the other salesman's faux pas.... but I certainly would
nowadays!
blake murphy
>
> - This is a high hit. It embarasses my husband publically who has a
> disability that he would rather not be known. *I* ask for the check and I
> expect it to be handed to me. Handing it automatically to my husband after
> I've asked for it isnt just sexist, it's rude and forces him to pass it to
> me while saying something about 'having forgotten his glasses'. It's
> positively disgusting when a lady waiter does it and simpers at him as if to
> indicate a big tip is on order.
>
odd you should mention that. i'm in a wheelchair, and when i go out to eat
with my girlfriend, more times than i can count she has been the one
presented the check.
your pal,
blake
blake murphy
>>>> Jean wrote on Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:28:31 -0500:
>>
>>>>> Sigh. I keep forgetting that the appetizers tend to arrive
>>>>> with or even after the entrees at our favorite restaurant.
>
>>>> My daughter thinks she is dying if
>>>> she doesn't get their Japanese curry almost every week, so that
>>>> failure is not fatal. The point is that I shouldn't order apps,
>>>> thinking that we will be eating them as we wait for the entrees!
>
> I'm not too fond of Japanese dining, I find their dishes too fussy and
> skimppy and their service not nearly fussy enough, in fact Japanee
> restaurant service is downright slovenly and served totally
> mannerless, they practically throw the food at you... go know the land
> of save-face produces egos of Mothra proportions and knows nothing of
> humility/humbleness.
what a load of crap.
blake
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote:
> I'm curious as to what percentage of bill are paid by the woman at the table
> these day. In the 1950's it probably was less than 1% but today is probably
> getting near half.
I think it would be hard to say, since most husbands and wives still
have joint finances. I can "pay" or Rich can "pay," but the money comes
from the same place. It's our money. Not his, not mine.
Regards,
Ranee @ Arabian Knits
"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13
brooklyn1
What's odd is that yoose would expect folks to believe you'd frequent
such places, over and over, more times than you can count.
I don't remember a waitperson ever handing a check to any one at the
table, not unless someone specifically asked for the check... and then
unless the person actually stuck their hand out and grabbed for it
they still don't hand it, they lay it down on the table in front of
the person who indicates they will be taking care of the tab...
otherwise it's tradititional and customary to set the check on the
table near to the mouth who did the ordering. Obviously in real life
you're a brow beaten wuss, your girlfriend is in charge and is
presented the check because she does all the talking... if you ever
dared to make a peep she'd smack the shit outta your mousy mick mouth.
LOL
Dan Abel
"Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote:
My wife and daughter have a Sunday afternoon ritual. Sunday is my
wife's work day. She runs around crazily, doing everything that she put
off or forgot. She often gets no breakfast or lunch. So she gets home
in the afternoon, and she is hungry to the to point of crankiness. So
she suggests places to eat, and my daughter vetoes them. It drives me
crazy. I made a suggestion once. They both just stared at me. This
was a place that they used to eat at, and they eat at now, but at that
point it was off their list for some unknown reason. Sometimes my
younger son participates in these deny-o-thons, but he usually works on
Sunday. So I just make myself an early lunch while my wife is at work.
--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
da...@sonic.net
Giusi
"Goomba" ha scritto nel messaggio
I did > as I value my husband's imput, but purchased it from an entirely >
different salesperson. It was so long ago I can't remember if I let that >
salesman know of the other salesman's faux pas.... but I certainly would
> nowadays!
Husband, husband, husband... it's not always a husband. As a business woman
I used to have to practically whip waiters to shame when they refused to
give me the checks. I used to have to excuse myself and go to the desk and
pay before presented to avoid embarrassing confrontations in front of
clients.
At the very time when women's liberation was supposed to be happening, wine
presentation and checks always went to men.
Steve Pope
>We all know that but still Italian restaurants in the US all serve the
>same basic menu... and so do restaurants in Italy, they make a few
>changes as per region but the majority of dishes still involve pasta,
>bread, and tomato sauce. Italian food is primarilly carbs and fat
>laden sauce, they use meat sparingly, like Chinese dishes. The
>Chinese do much better with vegetables, Italians serve salads that
>wouldn't feed a bunny rabbit... I swear they count the friggin' leaves
>of lettuce.
May have been true at some point in the past, but not currently
true, at least in the south. The contorni in Campagnia are
remarkable. Large plates of roasted zucchini, pumpkin,
chickory (sp?), etc.
It may be skimpier other parts of Italy, or during leaner economic
times. (Italy right now has the shallowest recession of anywhere in
Europe.)
Steve
jmcquown
Try asking for a spoon ;) http://tinyurl.com/ydq9vqa
Jill
jmcquown
news:HOSdna21waC5q2rX...@giganews.com...
>
> "cshenk" <csh...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> 85. Never bring a check until someone asks for it. Then give it to the
>>> person who asked for it.
>>
>> disability that he would rather not be known. *I* ask for the check and
>> I expect it to be handed to me. Handing it automatically to my husband
>> after I've asked for it isnt just sexist, it's rude and forces him to
>> pass it to me while saying something about 'having forgotten his
>> glasses'. It's positively disgusting when a lady waiter does it and
>> simpers at him as if to indicate a big tip is on order.
>
> table these day. In the 1950's it probably was less than 1% but today is
> probably getting near half.
>
> business. They were going to buy a $200,000 machine and met with a few
> sales reps. At one meeting, Joan asked some technical questions and the
> rep would look squarely at the husband to give the answer. At the
> conclusion of the meeting, the sales rep asked husband for an order. He
> said, "you'll have to talk to Joan, she makes that decision". The next
> few minutes were rather awkward.
>
I went with my mother to buy a car back around 1977. She saw one she wanted
and talked with the sales rep. She was ready to take out the checkbook. He
said, "If you're going to have to ask your husband about buying the car I
really don't want to deal with you." She said "Excuse me?! I can write a
check for anything I want, whenever I want!" We left and when we got home
my father called the manager of that dealership and told him exactly what he
thought of the treatment she got. And she bought a car at a different
dealership :)
Jill
brooklyn1
There are always exceptions... hardly a poster on usenet doesn't pull
the old "I know somebody who" argument. But in general certain facts
hold true in the majority of cases most of the time. I would never
order a salad at an Italian restaurant, not in the US or in Italy...
in most every case you'll receive an infant's bowl containing a few
bits of limp lettuce, a few strings of red cabbage, two red onion
rings, a thin slice of tomato, two olives, and a small parsley sprig,
not even a crouton... and all prepared hours previously. I've
traveled throughout Europe, nowhere are they into what we here in the
US call a Chef's Salad... even the typical national chain restaurants
(like Bob's Big Boy, HOJOs, IHOP, etc.) in the US serve a great Chef's
Salad, a huge bowl filled to overflowing with three kinds of lettuce,
a dozen cherry tomatoes, lots of cucumber slices, carrot curls, red
cabbage, raddish flowers, sliced beets, sliced celery, couple hard
cooked eggs, olives, bell pepper, hot pepper, plenty of sliced roast
beef, ham, and turkey... plenty of sliced Swiss and American, with all
the crutons you want, and a choice of a dozen dressings all you want,
with bread n' butter, crackers, and sesame sticks, I'm probably
forgetting stuff... an entire healthful meal more than a hungry person
can consume at one sitting and at a very reasonable price... typically
under $6... served at table or DIY salad bar. When I'm hungry for
good wholesome food I'll always choose a US Interstate national chain
eatery over any Italian restaurant on the planet. Over teh years all
restaurnt food has deteriorated substantially in quality and value,
but especially Italian... two tiny paper thin veal medallians with
more breading than meat in a kiddie sized cereal bowl with some sauce
outta #10 tin and a 2oz piece of melted mozz the menu says is veal
parm with a small side of previously cooked rewarmed 'sghetties ain't
worth any $22.99 just because it's served in a dimly lit joint with
red n' white checked table cloths by some unshaven unwashed slothful
oily looking guido.
cshenk
> I went with my mother to buy a car back around 1977. She saw one she
> wanted and talked with the sales rep. She was ready to take out the
> checkbook. He said, "If you're going to have to ask your husband about
> buying the car I really don't want to deal with you." She said "Excuse
> me?! I can write a check for anything I want, whenever I want!" We left
> and when we got home my father called the manager of that dealership and
> told him exactly what he thought of the treatment she got. And she bought
> a car at a different dealership :)
Grin, memories here. Mom got divorced whern I was 2 in 1962. Rare was the
woman or 'qualtiy' raising 3 kids alone. I distinctly recall one realtor
situation as we closed on a house, where they tried to raise the price for
some riduculous thing. Mom just opened what we called the 'medicine bag'
(huge black purse) and took out 47,000$ and said she wanted the price
*reduced* as it was cash on the barrel.
She got her reduction. ;-)
BTW, Mom raised us 3 kids by doing what we now call 'flipping houses' but
had no real name then. Us 3 kids worked with her. She was supposed to get
51$ a month in child support for us 3, but never saw it (nor was it ever
raised). She did fine though. Spent my childhood rather uniquely but had
fun learning how to: carpenter fine woodwork, fix stairs, refinish wood
floors, paint anything, tile floors, wallpaper anything, build and anchor
faux non-support walls in a basement, insulate anything, drywall, refinish
furniture. Those were my areas, Brother and sister had others, some of
which combine.
cshenk
> cshenk wrote:
>> - This is a high hit. It embarasses my husband publically who has a
>> disability that he would rather not be known. *I* ask for the check and
>> I
>> expect it to be handed to me. Handing it automatically to my husband
>> after
>> I've asked for it isnt just sexist, it's rude and forces him to pass it
>> to
> odd you should mention that. i'm in a wheelchair, and when i go out to
> eat
> with my girlfriend, more times than i can count she has been the one
> presented the check.
Humm, I bet that would bother me no end! It matters less with a married
couple but if you aere 'treating a girlfriend' for a night out, it becomes
awkward as she passes it to you.
One of the things any observant person can't miss, is many people feel
uncomfortable addressing a person with a disability. It shouldnt be that
way, but it is. The average waitron isnt very good about it are they?
Rob
Sounds like BS to me.
Rob
Dora
> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> I went with my mother to buy a car back around 1977. She saw one
>> she
>> wanted and talked with the sales rep. She was ready to take out the
>> checkbook. He said, "If you're going to have to ask your husband
>> about buying the car I really don't want to deal with you." She
>> said
>> "Excuse me?! I can write a check for anything I want, whenever I
>> want!" We left and when we got home my father called the manager of
>> that dealership and told him exactly what he thought of the
>> treatment she got. And she bought a car at a different dealership
>> :)
>>
>> Jill
>
> Sounds like BS to me.
>
> Rob
No - not BS. I had an almost identical treatment - I was refused a
test drive "until your husband is with you".
DH called the owner and said we were going elsewhere.
We did.
Dora
Nancy Young
> No - not BS. I had an almost identical treatment - I was refused a
> test drive "until your husband is with you".
> DH called the owner and said we were going elsewhere.
> We did.
Of all people you'd think car salesmen would know who to
butter up. As recently as the mid 80s, a friend of mine went
to buy a car, taking out a loan. The salesman said I'm not
interested in what you make, just your husband. She said I
make more than he does. Hello.
nancy
Gregory Morrow
Ever had a Jap "correct" yer chopstick "skillz", blake...???
--
Best
Greg
Bob Muncie
My wife and I had a similar experience at a Honda dealership around
1982ish. I was shopping at a few dealerships, and she was shopping at a
few others as time permitted, and we had split up the shopping task.
She had gone to one of the dealerships, and the whole discussion on
costs and discounts could not take place. The salesman refused to
discuss without my presence, and when she escalated to the manager, and
got the same treatment, we chose (she) to not buy a Honda that year. I
was not going to touch that "joint" decision with a ten foot pole.
At that point in time, either of us would have qualified singularly to
buy pretty much any car we wanted.
Bob
Nancy Young
> Nancy Young wrote:
>> Dora wrote:
>>
>>> No - not BS. I had an almost identical treatment - I was refused a
>>> test drive "until your husband is with you".
>>> DH called the owner and said we were going elsewhere.
>>> We did.
>>
>> Of all people you'd think car salesmen would know who to butter up.
>> As recently as the mid 80s, a friend of mine went to buy a car,
>> taking out a loan. The salesman said I'm not interested in what you
>> make, just your husband. She said I
>> make more than he does. Hello.
> My wife and I had a similar experience at a Honda dealership around
> 1982ish. I was shopping at a few dealerships, and she was shopping at
> a few others as time permitted, and we had split up the shopping task.
>
> She had gone to one of the dealerships, and the whole discussion on
> costs and discounts could not take place. The salesman refused to
> discuss without my presence, and when she escalated to the manager,
> and got the same treatment, we chose (she) to not buy a Honda that
> year. I was not going to touch that "joint" decision with a ten foot
> pole.
>
> At that point in time, either of us would have qualified singularly to
> buy pretty much any car we wanted.
You'd think stories like these are quaint, remember when things.
We're talking as late as the 1980s for Pete's sake. Maybe it's still
going on. Haggling isn't my thing so I've never bought a car myself,
someone always takes care of that for me. I don't think I'd take it well
if someone treated me like that.
Once I applied for a store card I didn't need for a silly reason that's
not important. The store called me to go over the form and soon
enough the reason became clear. Okay, we just need to know how
much your husband makes. Uh. No. This is mine, he has a card
already. We just need to know what he makes. Mind you, I made
plenty of money to get a card on my own.
I said no, this is for me, I'm not applying jointly. Well ... (gets
supervisor) ... Okay, can you just tell me what he does? I got
pissed off and said No one asked him what his wife made when he
applied for a card.
Damn straight I got that card in the mail a couple days later.
nancy
sf
<rjyn...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Once I applied for a store card I didn't need for a silly reason that's
>not important. The store called me to go over the form and soon
>enough the reason became clear. Okay, we just need to know how
>much your husband makes. Uh. No. This is mine, he has a card
>already. We just need to know what he makes. Mind you, I made
>plenty of money to get a card on my own.
I remember the days when I couldn't get a joint card at Macy's with my
name on it or even "our" names, just my husband's name, period... like
I was a little kid borrowing Daddy's card. Forget that noise. I
opened my own account, which was separate, equal and a pain in the
neck because it was a second check to write to the same store.
--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Jean B.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
Oh, you know when I have bought my last car, the salesman handed
the master key to my male friend. I had to pry it away.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
--
Jean B.
Nancy Young
Yeah, I learned that when I got divorced. My ex inherited our credit
history by default and I couldn't get so much as a store card.
American Express was the only company that took a chance on me.
After that everyone wanted to give me a card. So that's how I
wound up with a lot of separate credit accounts.
nancy
sf
I hope you give American Express your main business. I know they
weren't really taking a chance because you have to pay up at the end
of the month, but now that it's our/your habit - why not? AE even has
a cash back card now.
Nancy Young
> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 22:04:12 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> <rjyn...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> My ex inherited our credit
>> history by default and I couldn't get so much as a store card.
>> American Express was the only company that took a chance on me.
>> After that everyone wanted to give me a card. So that's how I
>> wound up with a lot of separate credit accounts.
>
> I hope you give American Express your main business. I know they
> weren't really taking a chance because you have to pay up at the end
> of the month, but now that it's our/your habit - why not? AE even has
> a cash back card now.
Yes, aside from a parting of the ways over a difference of opinion,
I do now have an Amex through Costco.
nancy
blake murphy
if i were a 'jap' encountering either you or sheldon, i'd ram the chopstick
through your eardrum.
blake
blake murphy
> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:49:10 -0500, blake murphy
> <blakepm...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 11:32:39 -0500, cshenk wrote:
>>>
>>> - This is a high hit. It embarasses my husband publically who has a
>>> disability that he would rather not be known. *I* ask for the check and I
>>> expect it to be handed to me. Handing it automatically to my husband after
>>> I've asked for it isnt just sexist, it's rude and forces him to pass it to
>>> me while saying something about 'having forgotten his glasses'. It's
>>> positively disgusting when a lady waiter does it and simpers at him as if to
>>> indicate a big tip is on order.
>>>
>>
>>odd you should mention that. i'm in a wheelchair, and when i go out to eat
>>with my girlfriend, more times than i can count she has been the one
>>presented the check.
>>
>>
>
> What's odd is that yoose would expect folks to believe you'd frequent
> such places, over and over, more times than you can count.
>
it's not odd at all that you're stupid enough to assume people only go to
places where they are regulars.
blake
blake murphy
actually, i don't encounter it that much. (there was one time at the DMV
when i was getting my non-license photo i.d., where they kept asking my
father questions that would more properly asked of me, but put that down
to maybe them dealing with mentally handicapped people.)
with the waiters, who gives a fuck, really. she pays half the time anyway.
wheelchair jockeys are not at all rare in my immediate neighborhood. it
really is gimp city.
your pal,
blake
cshenk
> cshenk wrote:
>> Grin, memories here. Mom got divorced whern I was 2 in 1962. Rare was
>> it ever raised). She did fine though. Spent my childhood rather
>> uniquely but had fun learning how to: carpenter fine woodwork, fix
>> stairs, refinish wood floors, paint anything, tile floors, wallpaper
>> anything, build and anchor faux non-support walls in a basement, insulate
>> anything, drywall, refinish furniture. Those were my areas, Brother and
>> sister had others, some of which combine.
>>
> Gee, you must be rather handy around the house then!
Sure am. Hubby isnt exactly slack either. Got back from Japan with 50,000$
worth of cost damage if done contracted out. We did have to contract
25,000$ out (not within our skill set) but the rest we did ourselves.
Came back home to the windows propped in place with 2x4 insude and outside
(main picture window too) and got into the house by walking thru what used
to the be back bedroom studs along the exterior walls which then were open
to the outside so you just had to duck a little to walk in.
Not all renters are a bad situation. But it's hard to manage it from Japan
if you do end up with a bad one. We didnt know until we came back.
Next project, contract job, recarpet. After that, a normal maint thing not
relatred to tennants, gutter reolacement (contract) as they are 20 years old
and not ducted right. Also looking at the wax ring of 2 toilets (easy for
us) and 2 floors thst need new linoleum. Retile the fireplace frronter (us
again) adn replace the wallpaper in the kitchen (us).
Bit by bit. We are down to cosmetics now.
cshenk
> Oh you know when I have bought my last car, the salesman handed the master
Still happens.
In 2007 we returned from Japan. Went to car dealership and got a car next
day but it was interesting. To start, they kept trying to talk to Don. He
kept telling them to talk to me. Finally he (exasperation) told them he
doesnt *drive* due to medical issues and talk car to *wife*. So, we settle
on one of a price that we like (that part is joint) and I test drive it,
like it, and we get to the sales office.
There, I am asked to move to the side seat so he can sign the paperwork.....
This after they already have been told i do the finances and he doesnt drive
and his visual acuity lacks definition for the paperwork.
Don's a good man. We walked out and got a taxi (had no car) at another
dealership. Got a decent deal.
BTW, the guy did dither slightly on who to hand the keys to, but it was
handled more neatly. Don grabbed them and handed them to me when the guy
had just enough clue but hadnt been told who to hand them to. He at least
was polite with 'who's car is it for' looking back and forth between us.
Jean B.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
sexist in his treatment of his female coworkers too. That was
when Priuses were hard to come buy though, and they had the one I
want with only a 2-week wait. It did mean I have never taken my
car to that dealership for service though. Ah, dealing with such
things is a whole other story.
--
Jean B.
cshenk
> cshenk wrote:
>> Sure am. Hubby isnt exactly slack either. Got back from Japan with
>> 50,000$ worth of cost damage if done contracted out. We did have to
>> contract 25,000$ out (not within our skill set) but the rest we did
>> ourselves.
>> Bit by bit. We are down to cosmetics now.
> Yikes!!!!! It is really lucky you can do much of the work yourself!
Yup. Looks like Ranee is pretty handy too although I don't see her on
alt.home.repair (a fairly useful place when I hit something I'm not all that
savvy on).
The stuff we contracted out or had to buy: Replace 'back bedroom'
(technically enclosed porch here in VA) with a sunroom using remaining roof
and deck plus 2 of 4 walls, replace much of wood fence around backyard (rest
pends shortly, just too heavy for me and Don now), repair chimney (the cap
had blown off and rain caused significant damage), replace washing machine,
dryer, dishwasher and disposal (though you can fairly chock those to age),
replace tub (they'd let it rust out and water was leaking underneath to the
next hall under the wall), replace bathroom tile (due to same water damage,
had liner put in), replace 3 windows (one was big picture window in front),
electrician for various non-sensical damages that were unsafe, replace all
ceiling fixtures (all lights and ceiling fans broken), and termite control
(had active nest in main bedroom wall). Thats the main parts I recall.
Things we did ourselves are too numerous to recall other than the big ticket
things like actually putting in the new ceiling fans and lights, new sink in
bathroom, new screen door off back porch (totally missing) and exterior door
(prehung frame, off sunroom to porch, also was missing), paneling the
remaining walls of the sunroom after ripping out molded drywall, painting
everything in sight, replacing dropped ceiling in kitchen, replacing wood as
needed due to termite damage after inspecting studs and finding we were
lucky and caught before any real damage, cutting about 50 saplings out of
the yard, replacing several kitchen shelves (no drawers anymore, the only
drawer unit was movable and they had put outside in the rain for the last
several years and it was hopeless), and redoing the brick BBQ which fell
apart and is now a slab with a generator hutch on one side and a small
portion for a movable nice smoker/grill. Several baseboards and door frames
had to be replaced and they had cut out the shelf behind the bar for some
unknown reason which we put back in.
What's left is all cosmetics except the rest of the fence. Technically we
don't own any of it but if we want it back up in good shape, we'l have to
pay for it and with a dog, this matters to us. The fence will be contracted
along with new carpets. I might have the bathrooms and kitchen floors
redone at the same time. Also, due to age, gutter replacement needed at the
back of the house. Next year, work on landscaping yard back to snuff.
Smile, happens. I probably need a new fridge too but the 'was brand new,
now pretty crappy' one is still limping along.
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
"cshenk" <csh...@cox.net> wrote:
> Yup. Looks like Ranee is pretty handy too although I don't see her on
> alt.home.repair (a fairly useful place when I hit something I'm not all that
> savvy on).
Looks can be deceiving! My husband is pretty handy. I get by. I am
handy in the kitchen, with hand work, but I'm not very good at house
projects. I can slap paint on, though. :-)
Regards,
Ranee @ Arabian Knits
"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13