Re: How to pronounce "provalone"?

[spamtrap1888]

On Mar 28, 12:52 pm, Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote:
> I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
> immediately thought the guy was a Middiot.  I wouldn't have even
> looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
> "provolonAH".
>
> Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years.  But I'm
> American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>
> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
> they're wrong.  How do ITALIANS pronounce it.  And what is the rule
> for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> same ending sound).
>

Missourians can't even agree on how to pronounce Missouri, so why
would you expect all Italians to pronounce provalone the same way?
But, IME, southern Italians often chop off the last syllable.

(There is no gratzi, only grat-see-ay.)

[zxcvbob]

Sqwertz wrote:
> I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
> immediately thought the guy was a Middiot. I wouldn't have even
> looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
> "provolonAH".
>
> Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years. But I'm
> American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>
> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
> they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule
> for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> same ending sound).
>

> -sw


I'm pretty sure the accent is on the next-to-last syllable, so does it
really matter how you pronounce an unaccented vowel? If the accent was
on the e, it *would* make a difference. IMHO

-Bob

[Bryan]

If one's family has been here for many, many generations, it's usually
MIZ-ZOU-RAH.
Former Lieutenant Governor Roger Wilson told me personally, that it is
MIZ-ZOU-RAH, and it comes from an Osage Indian word meaning "people of
the big canoes." But he added that when using it as a modifier, you
should use whichever sounds better. Examples being MIZ-ZOU-REE Ozarks
or MIZ-ZOU-REE agriculture, but MIZ-ZOU-RAH Tigers or MIZ-ZOU-RAH
River. I'm not saying he's the authority, but he's the highest
authority I've ever discussed the subject with.

--Bryan

[tert in seattle]

Sqwertz wrote:
> I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
> immediately thought the guy was a Middiot. I wouldn't have even
> looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
> "provolonAH".
>
> Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years. But I'm
> American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>
> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
> they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule
> for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> same ending sound).
>

> -sw

http://www.forvo.com/word/provolone/

they say they're from Italy...who am I to doubt?

[James Silverton]

I'd go with the dictionary. English is a democratic language and usage
ultimately rules whatever is "correct".

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:52:45 -0500, Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost>

wrote:

>I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
>immediately thought the guy was a Middiot. I wouldn't have even
>looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
>"provolonAH".
>
>Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years. But I'm
>American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>
>The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
>they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule
>for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
>same ending sound).
>
>-sw

My wife of Italian ancestry pronounces it provaLONE. So do all the
people at Tony's Market in Providence.

[Julie Bove]

"Sqwertz" <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote in message
news:1n98nd3h...@sqwertz.com...

>I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
> immediately thought the guy was a Middiot. I wouldn't have even
> looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
> "provolonAH".
>
> Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years. But I'm
> American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>
> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
> they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule
> for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> same ending sound).

Nick Stellino says "Pro-va-loan". That is the only way I have heard it
pronounced. I lived on Staten Island with a lot of Italians. They all said
it that way.

[Brooklyn1]

On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:52:45 -0500, Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost>
wrote:

>I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
>immediately thought the guy was a Middiot. I wouldn't have even
>looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
>"provolonAH".
>
>Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years. But I'm
>American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>
>The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
>they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule
>for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
>same ending sound).

http://www.epicurious.com/tools/fooddictionary/search?query=provolone&submit.x=21&submit.y=11

[Dave Smith]

On 28/03/2012 5:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> My wife of Italian ancestry pronounces it provaLONE. So do all the
> people at Tony's Market in Providence.

As do all the hyphenated Italians around here.

[George M. Middius]

sqwishy's Valentine wish is a month late.

>I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
>immediately thought the guy was a Middiot.

Awww.... you're in love with me. That's so sweet.

[Chemo the Clown]

On Mar 28, 12:52 pm, Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote:

> I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I

> immediately thought the guy was a Middiot.  I wouldn't have even
> looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
> "provolonAH".
>
> Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years.  But I'm
> American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>
> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
> they're wrong.  How do ITALIANS pronounce it.  And what is the rule
> for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> same ending sound).
>

> -sw

For the love of God...you wonder about the strangest things!

[Pico Rico]

"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:7qv6n7dfvtfh6ermq...@4ax.com...

not this guy of Italian Ancestry. provalone-knee, not stressing the knee
too darn much.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:16:19 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> My wife of Italian ancestry pronounces it provaLONE. So do all the
> people at Tony's Market in Providence.
>
>

I'm no where near being of Italian descent but I pronounce it like your wife and those folks at Tony's Market.

[Kalmia]

On Mar 28, 3:52 pm, Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote:
> I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
> immediately thought the guy was a Middiot.  I wouldn't have even
> looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
> "provolonAH".
>
> Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years.  But I'm
> American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>
> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
> they're wrong.  How do ITALIANS pronounce it.  And what is the rule
> for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> same ending sound).
>
> -sw

My Italian buddies would say Pro-va-LOAN.

[Roy]

On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:52:45 PM UTC-6, Sqwertz wrote:
> I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
> immediately thought the guy was a Middiot. I wouldn't have even
> looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
> "provolonAH".
>
> Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years. But I'm
> American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>
> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
> they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule
> for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> same ending sound).
>
> -sw

Squirtz-alone-knee...you come up with the damnedest things.
Get an Italian/English dictionary or Google it.
Lots of answers on Google...should keep you busy
for at least two minutes.
==

[Brooklyn1]

Every guido in Brooklyn says provoloney > baloney.

[Steve Freides]

Sqwertz wrote:
> I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
> immediately thought the guy was a Middiot. I wouldn't have even
> looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
> "provolonAH".
>
> Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years. But I'm
> American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>
> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
> they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule
> for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> same ending sound).
>
> -sw

Italian is quite phonetic - what you see is what you get, so that final
"knee" is, indeed, pronounced, but it's unstressed and unaccented and
easy to miss if it's said quickly.

A more common word in Italian is "thank you", which is "grazie" - most
Americans think it's pronounced "gratzee" but there is another syllable
there at the end. If you google, "How do you pronounce grazie" you can
listen to some natives pronounce it.

As a voice major in undergraduate music school, we were required to take
a year of Italian, plus a semester of Italian diction for singers. Rest
assured that, even if we had no clue what we were saying, we learned to
pronounce it correctly. :)

-S-

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:08:13 -0400, "Steve Freides" <st...@kbnj.com>
wrote:

>
>Italian is quite phonetic - what you see is what you get, so that final
>"knee" is, indeed, pronounced, but it's unstressed and unaccented and
>easy to miss if it's said quickly.

That is the "official" pronunciation, but not every Italian puts the
"nee" on the end. I imagine it is regional.

>
>A more common word in Italian is "thank you", which is "grazie" - most
>Americans think it's pronounced "gratzee" but there is another syllable
>there at the end. If you google, "How do you pronounce grazie" you can
>listen to some natives pronounce it.
>
>As a voice major in undergraduate music school, we were required to take
>a year of Italian, plus a semester of Italian diction for singers. Rest
>assured that, even if we had no clue what we were saying, we learned to
>pronounce it correctly. :)
>
>-S-
>

Correctly for where? Italy and dialects are very regional. I know
people that have lived in Italy for years and cannot understand much
of the words from other regions.

I'm sure what you learned is correct for singers, opera, theater, but
I'd also bet you'd be lost in many of the towns as you traveled.

Back in the 1800's, Allesandro Manzoni advocated a national language
based on the Florentine dialect. A hundred years later, there are
still differences Head on down to a small town in Calabria and you may
as well be in China for some of the words and phrases.

[Theodore Edward Stosterone]

On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:52:45 -0500, Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost>

wrote:

>I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
>immediately thought the guy was a Middiot. I wouldn't have even
>looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
>"provolonAH".
>
>Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years. But I'm
>American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>
>The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
>they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule
>for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
>same ending sound).
>
>-sw

'k, is it fell-aye-she-o, or fell-ah-TI-o?

[ViLco]

Sqwertz wrote:

> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
> they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it.

That final "e" is spelled just like the "e"'s in the english word
"president", in the sense that it's not spelled like the "ee" in knee.

> And what is the rule
> for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> same ending sound).

For you they have the same ending sound, for us they are very different, one
is spelled "eh" (as in provolone) and one "ee" (as in knee).
There's not a always valid rule.
Usually "e" is the ending for plural female nouns: zucchine, donne, lettere,
etc, but it's also used for some singular nouns, both male and female:
dottore (M doctor), ape (F bee), etc.
Usually "i" is the ending for plural male nouns: spaghetti, uomini, libri,
etc. Slightly less often, it's used for some plural female nouns: crisalidi
(chrysalides), danzatrici (she-dancers, the male form is danzatori), attrici
(actresses) etc.

[Giusi]

On Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:16:11 AM UTC+2, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:08:13 -0400, "Steve Freides" <st...@kbnj.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> >Italian is quite phonetic - what you see is what you get, so that final
> >"knee" is, indeed, pronounced, but it's unstressed and unaccented and
> >easy to miss if it's said quickly.
>
> That is the "official" pronunciation, but not every Italian puts the
> "nee" on the end. I imagine it is regional.
>
> >
> >A more common word in Italian is "thank you", which is "grazie" - most
> >Americans think it's pronounced "gratzee" but there is another syllable
> >there at the end. If you google, "How do you pronounce grazie" you can
> >listen to some natives pronounce it.
> >
> >As a voice major in undergraduate music school, we were required to take
> >a year of Italian, plus a semester of Italian diction for singers. Rest
> >assured that, even if we had no clue what we were saying, we learned to
> >pronounce it correctly. :)
> >
> >-S-
> >
>
> Correctly for where? Italy and dialects are very regional. I know
> people that have lived in Italy for years and cannot understand much
> of the words from other regions.

There is standard Italian, however. Thank God. Dialects are all that, but modern folk speak standard Italian as well.

> I'm sure what you learned is correct for singers, opera, theater, but
> I'd also bet you'd be lost in many of the towns as you traveled.
>
> Back in the 1800's, Allesandro Manzoni advocated a national language
> based on the Florentine dialect. A hundred years later, there are
> still differences Head on down to a small town in Calabria and you may
> as well be in China for some of the words and phrases.

But for that reason, all learn standard Italian which resembles actual Tuscan dialect not at all. Ask Vilco about Hoca Hola. People on TV and radio have to speak something that is understood evverywhere.

[Giusi]

I

On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 9:52:45 PM UTC+2, Sqwertz wrote:
> I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
> immediately thought the guy was a Middiot. I wouldn't have even
> looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
> "provolonAH".
>
> Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years. But I'm
> American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>

> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say

> they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule

> for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> same ending sound).
>

> -sw

!t is definitely an eh sound, not ah and not ee. Ah is reserved for a, ee is for i, but when you capitalized, did you mean to accent that syllabel? Because that's not right. proh/voh-LOH-neh.

[happ...@webtv.net]

Re: How to pronounce "provalone"?

Group: rec.food.cooking Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2012, 2:21pm (EDT-3) From:
juli...@frontier.com (Julie Bove)

How anyone could watch the PHEW is beyond me. Why watch ABC's awful
show, when there are so many cooking shows on the food network.
ABC/DISNEY took off 2 soaps that had MILLIONS of viewers and replaced it
with PURE CRAP.

Another cheese that is often mispronounced is MOZZARELLA, some say what
sounds like MATZOH-RELLA LOL. My Italian friends always drop the "L".

[happ...@webtv.net]

Re: How to pronounce "provalone"?

Group: rec.food.cooking Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2012, 9:25pm From: Gravesend1
(Brooklyn1)

My friends are ITALIAN, not Guido's. You just love to insult people
SHELDON. You better watch your butt, cause one day, someone may just
beat the crap out of your whiney old smelly ass !!!!!!!!!

[ViLco]

Sqwertz wrote:

> Eeek, you have to set up an account to download a 1-second MP3, then
> find where your browser put it and play it manually?
>
> Isn't it easier to just spell it?

I'm going to find a youtube clip where someone spells that nameas soon as I
find a headset.

[ViLco]

zxcvbob wrote:

> I'm pretty sure the accent is on the next-to-last syllable,

yep

> so does it
> really matter how you pronounce an unaccented vowel? If the accent
> was on the e, it *would* make a difference. IMHO

The spelling of the wovels is independent from the accent, it may just
change the time the vowel is spelled. In provolone, for example, the accent
on the last "o" makes us spell it a bit longer.

[ViLco]

Sqwertz wrote:

> Is the last syllable of a ever accented when the word ends in a vowel?

It happens for words like caffe' (coffee), some surnames as De Andre' and in
a lot of past tense verbs like arrivo' (it arrived) or parti' (it left).
Usually the accent falls before the last syllabe as in pro-vo-lO-ne, aE-reo,
pEr-ti-ca...

[ViLco]

Julie Bove wrote:

> Nick Stellino says "Pro-va-loan". That is the only way I have heard
> it pronounced. I lived on Staten Island with a lot of Italians. They all
> said it that way.

They should take a tour back to Italy :)

[Pico Rico]

"Sqwertz" <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote in message

news:1bqbub16l1fey$.dlg@sqwertz.com...
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 20:51:28 +0000 (UTC), tert in seattle wrote:

>
>> Sqwertz wrote:
>>> I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
>>> immediately thought the guy was a Middiot. I wouldn't have even
>>> looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
>>> "provolonAH".
>>>
>>> Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years. But I'm
>>> American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>>>
>>> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
>>> they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule
>>> for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
>>> same ending sound).
>>>
>>> -sw
>>

>> http://www.forvo.com/word/provolone/
>>
>> they say they're from Italy...who am I to doubt?

>
> Eeek, you have to set up an account to download a 1-second MP3, then
> find where your browser put it and play it manually?
>
> Isn't it easier to just spell it?
>

> -sw

account? download? I just clicked and it played in my browser.

[Steve Freides]

Everything you said is true but I will stand by what I stated above.
While there are regiional dialects and indeed, regional languages that
predate the modern Italian state, ask anyone in Italy to pronounce
either "provolone" or "grazie" and you tell me if you hear it as I've
described it or not. The differences, to us Americans, are minor.

-S-

[ViLco]

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Correctly for where? Italy and dialects are very regional. I know
> people that have lived in Italy for years and cannot understand much
> of the words from other regions.
>
> I'm sure what you learned is correct for singers, opera, theater, but
> I'd also bet you'd be lost in many of the towns as you traveled.

That would be true only if you meet very ignorant persons who can only speak
their local slang or who speak a very slangish italian, as could happen in a
very small deep-in-the-mountain town populated only by old aged people.
Nowadays you'll find people speaking italian everywhere thanks to radio and
television.

> Back in the 1800's, Allesandro Manzoni advocated a national language
> based on the Florentine dialect. A hundred years later, there are
> still differences Head on down to a small town in Calabria and you may
> as well be in China for some of the words and phrases.

Also in a small town in Calabria the youth, at least, would speak both the
local slang and standard italian.

[Brooklyn1]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:44:51 -0500, Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost>
wrote:

>On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:16:19 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:52:45 -0500, Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost>

>> wrote:
>>
>>>I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
>>>immediately thought the guy was a Middiot. I wouldn't have even
>>>looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
>>>"provolonAH".
>>>
>>>Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years. But I'm
>>>American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>>>
>>>The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
>>>they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule
>>>for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
>>>same ending sound).
>>>
>>>-sw
>>

>> My wife of Italian ancestry pronounces it provaLONE. So do all the
>> people at Tony's Market in Providence.
>

>As in 3 syllables and no hard vowel sound at the end? using English
>vowel rules (ending vowel modified previous vowel sound).
>
>That's the only way I've heard it, but then I realized I've never
>really heard it spoken by an "authentic"

No such thing... there is no more "authentic" spoken Italian than
there is "authentic" spoken English... dialects are regional. English
is spoken very differently all over the US same as English is spoken
very differently all over the UK. So is Italian spoken differently
all over Italy and certainly diferently all over the US... listening
to Italian in NY and Boston you'd never know they are speaking the
same language, they don't even fully comprehend each other. Dialects
are not only different by region they are even different within
familys. Hardly anyone speaks the way languages are taught in
classrooms. In Brooklyn I've mostly heard provoloney, in some hoods
provoloneh... I've never heard provolone. I won't even go into the
typical dago gesticulations... without their hands guineas would be
mute. LOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Italy

[Brooklyn1]

There's no apostrophe in your Guidos, dumb WOP!... ba fongool! LOL-LOL

[zxcvbob]

Sqwertz wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:34:26 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:

>
>> Sqwertz wrote:
>>> I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
>>> immediately thought the guy was a Middiot. I wouldn't have even
>>> looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
>>> "provolonAH".
>>>
>>> Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years. But I'm
>>> American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>>>
>>> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
>>> they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule

>>> for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti and have the
>>> same ending sound).
>>>
>>> -sw
>> I'm pretty sure the accent is on the next-to-last syllable, so does it

>> really matter how you pronounce an unaccented vowel? If the accent was
>> on the e, it *would* make a difference. IMHO
>

> Is the last syllable of a ever accented when the word ends in a vowel?

> I has not trying to indicate accents in the way I spelled it, but it
> was dectopive. I was just highlighting the differences.
>
> -sw.


I believe (but I am not an expert) in Western Romance languages if a
syllable other than the next-to-last is stressed, its vowel should have
an acute accent mark:

Provoloné would be pronounced Provolo-NEE

-Bob

[Pandora]

On 28 Mar, 21:52, Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote:
> I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
> immediately thought the guy was a Middiot.  I wouldn't have even
> looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
> "provolonAH".
>
> Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years.  But I'm
> American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>
> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
> they're wrong.  How do ITALIANS pronounce it.  And what is the rule

> for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> same ending sound).
>
> -sw

Provolone si pronuncia provolone qui in Italia. E anche in dialetto si
pronuncia provolone. English speaking, very often pronounce final "e"
"i". But correct pronounce is "provolonE".
cheers
PandorA and not PandorEI :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[ViLco]

Il 28/03/2012 21:52, Sqwertz ha scritto:

> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
> they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule
> for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> same ending sound).

Here it is, he spells "provolone" a couple of times:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o_oAOc3fww
--
Vilco
And the Family Stone
baconnaise, because ALL must taste like bacon

[sf]

On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:34:26 -0500, zxcvbob <zxc...@charter.net>
wrote:

> Sqwertz wrote:
> > I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
> > immediately thought the guy was a Middiot. I wouldn't have even
> > looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
> > "provolonAH".
> >
> > Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years. But I'm
> > American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
> >

> > The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
> > they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule
> > for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> > same ending sound).
> >

> > -sw
>
>
> I'm pretty sure the accent is on the next-to-last syllable, so does it
> really matter how you pronounce an unaccented vowel? If the accent was
> on the e, it *would* make a difference. IMHO
>

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that it's one of those
toe-may-toe/toe-mah-toe type things. How you pronounce it depends on
where you come from in Italy (or where the Italians you've heard say
it come from).

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

[sf]

I had no problem getting there, but it took me a few seconds to figure
out that the sideways triangle on the left was what to click to hear
audio. Italians may be great when it comes to designing clothing,
shoes and furniture - but they suck at website design.

[merryb]

On Mar 28, 6:04 pm, Roy <wila...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:52:45 PM UTC-6, Sqwertz wrote:
> > I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
> > immediately thought the guy was a Middiot.  I wouldn't have even
> > looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
> > "provolonAH".
>
> > Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years.  But I'm
> > American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>
> > The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
> > they're wrong.  How do ITALIANS pronounce it.  And what is the rule
> > for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> > same ending sound).
>
> > -sw
>

> Squirtz-alone-knee...you come up with the damnedest things.
> Get an Italian/English dictionary or Google it.
> Lots of answers on Google...should keep you busy
> for at least two minutes.
> ==

LOL- ya know how he needs attention!

[sf]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 05:45:19 -0400, happ...@webtv.net wrote:

> How anyone could watch the PHEW is beyond me. Why watch ABC's awful
> show, when there are so many cooking shows on the food network.
> ABC/DISNEY took off 2 soaps that had MILLIONS of viewers and replaced it
> with PURE CRAP.

Nobody cares what you think.

[sf]

On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:08:13 -0400, "Steve Freides" <st...@kbnj.com>
wrote:

> A more common word in Italian is "thank you", which is "grazie" - most
> Americans think it's pronounced "gratzee" but there is another syllable
> there at the end. If you google, "How do you pronounce grazie" you can
> listen to some natives pronounce it.

So Italian is like Hawaiian?

[Ophelia]

"ViLco" <vill...@tin.it> wrote in message
news:jl22vu$dns$1...@dont-email.me...

> Here it is, he spells "provolone" a couple of times:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o_oAOc3fww

Yep, that is how we pronounce it.

--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

[sf]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:12:04 +0200, "ViLco" <vill...@tin.it> wrote:

>
> That would be true only if you meet very ignorant persons who can only speak
> their local slang or who speak a very slangish italian, as could happen in a
> very small deep-in-the-mountain town populated only by old aged people.
> Nowadays you'll find people speaking italian everywhere thanks to radio and
> television.

Very similar to American English. The generalized Hollywood movie
American accent of today is based precise pronunciation radio
newscasters used back when the airwaves were filled with crackles and
pops. It was chosen because it is the most easily understood by the
widest group of people. I use subtitles at home when watching British
movies or American movies with Southern or Eastern accents because I
don't want to constantly stop and rewind just to understand what the
heck a character just said.

[sf]

On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 20:25:29 -0700, Theodore Edward Stosterone
<testos...@highlevels.com> wrote:

> 'k, is it fell-aye-she-o, or fell-ah-TI-o?

F-uh-k aw-f.

[sf]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:00:55 +0100, "Ophelia" <Oph...@Elsinore.me.uk>
wrote:

>
> "ViLco" <vill...@tin.it> wrote in message
> news:jl22vu$dns$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> > Here it is, he spells "provolone" a couple of times:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o_oAOc3fww
>
> Yep, that is how we pronounce it.

You cheated. ;) You lived in Malta.

[Pico Rico]

"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:1t49n7dsgfsqti6nd...@4ax.com...

that is a pretty standard symbol. and the site is Spanish, not Italian.

[sf]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:17:46 -0700, "Pico Rico"

In that case, Spaniards suck at website design.

[Ophelia]

"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message

news:me99n7tjo44grbovc...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:00:55 +0100, "Ophelia" <Oph...@Elsinore.me.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "ViLco" <vill...@tin.it> wrote in message
>> news:jl22vu$dns$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>> > Here it is, he spells "provolone" a couple of times:
>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o_oAOc3fww
>>
>> Yep, that is how we pronounce it.
>
> You cheated. ;) You lived in Malta.

Hmm, well there is that:))

--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

[spamtrap1888]

On Mar 29, 10:33 am, Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote:

> When I click "Download MP3" of eiotehr of the three examples it takes
> me to an account create/login screen.
>
> http://www.forvo.com/login/
>

Play it, don't download it. There's no trick to playing it.

[Nunya Bidnits]

Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:11:14 -0400, James Silverton wrote:
>
>> I'd go with the dictionary. English is a democratic language and
>> usage ultimately rules whatever is "correct".
>
> That's why I just coined the term "manglish" ;-) At least I think I
> did, but I'm not going to look it up and possibly prove myself wrong
> :-)
>
> -sw

That word is ambiguous.

;-)

MartyB

[Nunya Bidnits]

happ...@webtv.net wrote:
> Re: How to pronounce "provalone"?
>
> Group: rec.food.cooking Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2012, 9:25pm From:
> Gravesend1 (Brooklyn1)

> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:17:21 -0700, "Pico Rico"
> <Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote:
> "Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
> news:7qv6n7dfvtfh6ermq...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:52:45 -0500, Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost>

> wrote:
> I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
> immediately thought the guy was a Middiot. I wouldn't have even looked
> it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it "provolonAH".
> Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years. But I'm
> American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
> they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule for
> ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> same ending sound).
> -sw

> My wife of Italian ancestry pronounces it provaLONE. So do all the
> people at Tony's Market in Providence.
> not this guy of Italian Ancestry. provalone-knee, not stressing the
> knee too darn much.
> Every guido in Brooklyn says provoloney > baloney.
>
> My friends are ITALIAN, not Guido's. You just love to insult people
> SHELDON. You better watch your butt, cause one day, someone may just
> beat the crap out of your whiney old smelly ass !!!!!!!!!

Yanno, if I was going to dance around the line of threatening someone on
Usenet, I wouldn't use an easily traceable WebTV account to do so.

Just sayin'.

MartyB

[Kalmia]

On Mar 28, 10:08 pm, "Steve Freides" <st...@kbnj.com> wrote:


> As a voice major in undergraduate music school, we were required to take
> a year of Italian, plus a semester of Italian diction for singers.  Rest
> assured that, even if we had no clue what we were saying, we learned to
> pronounce it correctly. :)

No messin' up on "Vesti la giubba", 'ey? I'll never forget the game
show years ago when the contestant was asked to translate and offered
"We are vested in jubilance". Nice shot, I guess, considering.

[Pico Rico]

"Ophelia" <Oph...@Elsinore.me.uk> wrote in message
news:9tjofs...@mid.individual.net...

details please. Been to Malta twice and loved it. Where did you live, for
how long, and when? were you working there?

[Ophelia]

"Pico Rico" <Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote in message
news:jl2hjf$41q$1...@news.mixmin.net...

I lived in Zabbar Road in Paola for nearly 4 years. Before that I was in
Sliema for a few months:) I was there with my husband and family. He was
in the RAF and was stationed there:) My youngest son was born in M'tarfa
hospital:)) How well do you know it?



--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

[Pico Rico]

"Ophelia" <Oph...@Elsinore.me.uk> wrote in message

news:9tk0r9...@mid.individual.net...

well, my gal pal is 100% Maltese, but never had been there. So we went
(after hitting my Italia first, of course) in 2006 and wandered around. We
stayed in Xara Palace, but saw as much of Malta as possible, with an all too
quick trip to Gozo. We found her family's old home in Zebbug.
Unfortunately, she knows of no relatives in Malta, but of course there must
be some. After we returned, she became a Malta citizen, and we want to go
back if for no other reason than to use our European passports!

Your husband, having been in the RAF, must appreciate the history. Pretty
amazing stuff.

[T]

In article <jl11js$siq$1...@dont-email.me>, vill...@tin.it says...

>
> Sqwertz wrote:
>
> > The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say
> > they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it.
>

> That final "e" is spelled just like the "e"'s in the english word
> "president", in the sense that it's not spelled like the "ee" in knee.

>
> > And what is the rule
> > for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
> > same ending sound).
>

> For you they have the same ending sound, for us they are very different, one
> is spelled "eh" (as in provolone) and one "ee" (as in knee).
> There's not a always valid rule.
> Usually "e" is the ending for plural female nouns: zucchine, donne, lettere,
> etc, but it's also used for some singular nouns, both male and female:
> dottore (M doctor), ape (F bee), etc.
> Usually "i" is the ending for plural male nouns: spaghetti, uomini, libri,
> etc. Slightly less often, it's used for some plural female nouns: crisalidi
> (chrysalides), danzatrici (she-dancers, the male form is danzatori), attrici
> (actresses) etc.

Yup if there is anything I learned from my three years of Spanish it's
the Latin vowels. And it is nearly identical among Spanish and Italian.
It's funny, I stated studying Italian on my own and I realized it's the
kissing cousin of Spanish. The only real differences are the Arabic
influences on Spanish.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:53:17 AM UTC-5, sf wrote:
>
> >
>
> I came to the conclusion a long time ago that it's one of those
> toe-may-toe/toe-mah-toe type things. How you pronounce it depends on
> where you come from in Italy (or where the Italians you've heard say
> it come from).
>
>

Bingo!

[Ophelia]

"Pico Rico" <Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote in message

news:jl2iu0$6eu$1...@news.mixmin.net...

Ahh you know Haz-Zebbug? The church is beautiful, but then each village has
its own church:) If her family comes from Haz-Zebbug then she ought to
visit the church and ask about dates and names of her relatives. They are
very good about records and she may very well find the records of her
family:)

The fishing villages are very pretty and you could google them for your next
visit:) .

> Unfortunately, she knows of no relatives in Malta, but of course there
> must be some. After we returned, she became a Malta citizen, and we want
> to go back if for no other reason than to use our European passports!

> Your husband, having been in the RAF, must appreciate the history. Pretty
> amazing stuff.

--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

[tert in seattle]

Sqwertz wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 04:43:42 -0700, Pico Rico wrote:
>
>> "Sqwertz" <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote in message
>> news:1bqbub16l1fey$.dlg@sqwertz.com...
>>> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 20:51:28 +0000 (UTC), tert in seattle wrote:
>>>

>>>> Sqwertz wrote:
>>>>> I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I
>>>>> immediately thought the guy was a Middiot. I wouldn't have even
>>>>> looked it up, but then I remembered Giada pronouncing it
>>>>> "provolonAH".
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course *I've* been pronouncing it correctly for 30 years. But I'm
>>>>> American-English so I'm allowed to manglish foreign words.
>>>>>

>>>>> The dictionaries pronounce it "Provolon-KNEE", but some people say

>>>>> they're wrong. How do ITALIANS pronounce it. And what is the rule

>>>>> for ending words with "e" and "i" (spumate and spaghetti annd have the
>>>>> same ending sound).
>>>>>

>>>>> -sw
>>>>
>>>> http://www.forvo.com/word/provolone/
>>>>
>>>> they say they're from Italy...who am I to doubt?
>>>
>>> Eeek, you have to set up an account to download a 1-second MP3, then
>>> find where your browser put it and play it manually?
>>>
>>> Isn't it easier to just spell it?
>>>
>>> -sw
>>
>> account? download? I just clicked and it played in my browser.
>
> When I click "Download MP3" of eiotehr of the three examples it takes
> me to an account create/login screen.
>
> http://www.forvo.com/login/

http://www.ftupet.com/upload/clickhereyoustupidbutthead.jpg

[Pico Rico]

"Ophelia" <Oph...@Elsinore.me.uk> wrote in message

news:9tk251...@mid.individual.net...

I have a picture of her in the town square near the church (yes, it is still
beautiful - do you know why?) with several people pointing in different
directions for her - in response the where is her family street. That was
funny. We found it, of course, not far behind the church. We asked the
police about records, and they said no access due to privacy concerns. But
I could tell he didn't know what he was talking about. We need to go back
and spend some time (and some donation) to the church and ask for the
records. Unfortuanlay, she is not too much into the family tree concept.

OK: when the French (I believe) took Malta, the raided all the churches and
stole the silver. In Zebbuch, the people left the church doors wide open,
so the French thought they had already been there and ransacked, and thus
just went on their way . . .

>
> The fishing villages are very pretty and you could google them for your
> next visit:) .

Been to several. Need to go back. Need to spend more time and just live,
not visit. Need to lend a hand in a pastitzzi bakery!

[sf]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:07:51 -0700, "Pico Rico"
<Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote:

> pastitzzi bakery

That was a new term for me, so now I'm googling it and coming up with
yummy images

<http://www.urbanspoon.com/rph/19/233355/354524/detroit-italia-bakery-pastizzi-s-maltese-pastries-yummy-photo>

Recipe here http://www.maltabulb.com/easy_cheesecake_recipes.html

[Pico Rico]

"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message

news:80o9n75ol3af9l87d...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:07:51 -0700, "Pico Rico"
> <Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote:
>
>> pastitzzi bakery
>
> That was a new term for me, so now I'm googling it and coming up with
> yummy images
>
> <http://www.urbanspoon.com/rph/19/233355/354524/detroit-italia-bakery-pastizzi-s-maltese-pastries-yummy-photo>
>
> Recipe here http://www.maltabulb.com/easy_cheesecake_recipes.html
>

The pastizzi puff pastry is a bit unique in its "rolled" construction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvwYa2dERqM&feature=related

[sf]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:46:29 -0700, "Pico Rico"

<Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote:

>
> "sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:80o9n75ol3af9l87d...@4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:07:51 -0700, "Pico Rico"
> > <Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote:
> >
> >> pastitzzi bakery
> >
> > That was a new term for me, so now I'm googling it and coming up with
> > yummy images
> >
> > <http://www.urbanspoon.com/rph/19/233355/354524/detroit-italia-bakery-pastizzi-s-maltese-pastries-yummy-photo>
> >
> > Recipe here http://www.maltabulb.com/easy_cheesecake_recipes.html
> >
>
>
> The pastizzi puff pastry is a bit unique in its "rolled" construction.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvwYa2dERqM&feature=related
>

Thanks! I wish I could try one! Was that long rolled piece of dough
the beginning of the pastizzi?

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:20:40 -0400, "Steve Freides" <st...@kbnj.com>
wrote:



>
>Everything you said is true but I will stand by what I stated above.
>While there are regiional dialects and indeed, regional languages that
>predate the modern Italian state, ask anyone in Italy to pronounce
>either "provolone" or "grazie" and you tell me if you hear it as I've
>described it or not. The differences, to us Americans, are minor.
>
>-S-
>

I've heard it the way you said, but I've also heard variations. I
don't consider myself a linguist, but I've traveled to a span of about
1000 miles from the top of Italy to near the bottom. There are
differences.

My wife understands the language much more than I since she grew up
with it. She confirms the differences.

I also know people that learned Spanish or French in high school and
were befuddled when they made a trip to either Spain or France. What
they teach in school is not what everyone in every small town speaks.
Next up . . . how to pronounce mozzarella. Stay tuned after the
commercial break.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:12:04 +0200, "ViLco" <vill...@tin.it> wrote:



>

>Also in a small town in Calabria the youth, at least, would speak both the
>local slang and standard italian.
>
>

Perhaps the children do. You should have been with us at the town
hall in Paterno. All adults, of course.

[sf]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:21:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

> Next up . . . how to pronounce mozzarella. Stay tuned after the
> commercial break.

I'm on the edge of my seat!

[Julie Bove]

"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message

news:l4fan758e18l78scr...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:21:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>
>> Next up . . . how to pronounce mozzarella. Stay tuned after the
>> commercial break.
>
> I'm on the edge of my seat!

Or ricotta. My in-laws once sent us to another city to pick up some
"reegut" cheese. I thought they were saying "real good" cheese. Imagine my
surprise when what we got from an aunt's house was some grocery store
container of partially used ricotta cheese.

[spamtrap1888]

On Mar 29, 9:09 pm, Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote:

> Yeah, like I'm going to click that.
>
> Fuck off, Turd.
>

Tret supplied an apparently much needed visual aid.

Funny how only sqwertz and sf were puzzled by the right pointing
triangle, because it's signified "Play" since, ohIdunno, the inception
of realPlayer, Windows Media Player, etc.

[Ophelia]

"Pico Rico" <Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote in message

>> Ahh you know Haz-Zebbug? The church is beautiful, but then each village
>> has its own church:) If her family comes from Haz-Zebbug then she ought
>> to visit the church and ask about dates and names of her relatives. They
>> are very good about records and she may very well find the records of
>> her
>> family:)
>
> I have a picture of her in the town square near the church (yes, it is
> still
> beautiful - do you know why?) with several people pointing in different
> directions for her - in response the where is her family street. That was
> funny. We found it, of course, not far behind the church. We asked the
> police about records, and they said no access due to privacy concerns.
> But
> I could tell he didn't know what he was talking about. We need to go back
> and spend some time (and some donation) to the church and ask for the
> records. Unfortuanlay, she is not too much into the family tree concept.

Well I am sure your plan of a donation will go down well; a bottle of whisky
might too ;o)

> OK: when the French (I believe) took Malta, the raided all the churches
> and
> stole the silver. In Zebbuch, the people left the church doors wide open,
> so the French thought they had already been there and ransacked, and thus
> just went on their way . . .

>> The fishing villages are very pretty and you could google them for your
>> next visit:) .
>
> Been to several. Need to go back. Need to spend more time and just live,
> not visit. Need to lend a hand in a pastitzzi bakery!

Whoaaa! Pastizzi!! Not had one of those for years!!! Heh cheesecake but
not as we know it:) Good stuff here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltese_cuisine

I have a couple of Maltese cookery books but I haven't look at them in
years.

--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

[ViLco]

T wrote:

> Yup if there is anything I learned from my three years of Spanish it's
> the Latin vowels. And it is nearly identical among Spanish and
> Italian. It's funny, I stated studying Italian on my own and I
> realized it's the kissing cousin of Spanish. The only real
> differences are the Arabic influences on Spanish.

Yep, the latin origin clearly shows up

[ViLco]

Sqwertz wrote:

>> There's not a always valid rule.
>> Usually "e" is the ending for plural female nouns: zucchine, donne,
>> lettere, etc, but it's also used for some singular nouns, both male
>> and female: dottore (M doctor), ape (F bee), etc.
>> Usually "i" is the ending for plural male nouns: spaghetti, uomini,
>> libri, etc. Slightly less often, it's used for some plural female
>> nouns: crisalidi (chrysalides), danzatrici (she-dancers, the male
>> form is danzatori), attrici (actresses) etc.

> Thank you. Here's a big, wet kiss for you.

LOL

> So the moral of the story is that it cannot be pronounced incorrectly
> (well, except by Andy with his "provAHlone").

If there's one spelling which rules, it's the one of the shopkeeper in
Lagonegro (Basilicata) where I asked for provolone, she turned towards the
door behind her and shouted "provolOOOOOOOOOne" with 3 or 4 accent
variations in that very long "o"

[ViLco]

sf wrote:

>> A more common word in Italian is "thank you", which is "grazie" -
>> most Americans think it's pronounced "gratzee" but there is another
>> syllable there at the end. If you google, "How do you pronounce
>> grazie" you can listen to some natives pronounce it.

> So Italian is like Hawaiian?

Just that, the only difference is no spam on pizza :)

[Ed Pawlowski]

Mootzarel and reegut are very popular cheeses in Philadelphia where a
lot of southern Italians reside.

[Giusi]

Vilco, I would love for you to hear Nick Stellino speak. I recently
did and I couldn't tell you where he grew up if you held a gun to my
head. Maybe Argentina? In almost 40 years of Italian, I never heard
anyone with that accent.

[sf]

I dunno how Hawaiians survive Italian vacations! :)

[Steve Freides]

These are bastardized American-Italian pronounciations, classic examples
of the party game 'telphone' or 'whisper down the lane' or whatever you
may call it - they are mistakes preserved. I've been to Italy, my wife
also speaks some Italian, etc. There's no reason not to learn it
correctly, and then deal with whatever regionalisms you come across.

-S-

[sf]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:59:34 -0400, "Steve Freides" <st...@kbnj.com>
wrote:

> These are bastardized American-Italian pronounciations, classic examples
> of the party game 'telphone' or 'whisper down the lane' or whatever you
> may call it - they are mistakes preserved. I've been to Italy, my wife
> also speaks some Italian, etc. There's no reason not to learn it
> correctly, and then deal with whatever regionalisms you come across.
>

Or maybe that's the way it's pronounced in whatever village of
Southern Italy (more likely Sicily) where their ancestors came from.

[tert in seattle]

whah

[Steve Pope]

Steve Freides <st...@kbnj.com> wrote:

>Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:08:13 -0400, "Steve Freides" <st...@kbnj.com>

>>> Italian is quite phonetic - what you see is what you get, so that
>>> final "knee" is, indeed, pronounced, but it's unstressed and
>>> unaccented and easy to miss if it's said quickly.

>Everything you said is true but I will stand by what I stated above.
>While there are regiional dialects and indeed, regional languages that
>predate the modern Italian state, ask anyone in Italy to pronounce
>either "provolone" or "grazie" and you tell me if you hear it as I've
>described it or not. The differences, to us Americans, are minor.

I agree with Steve that in Italian all syllables in a word are
pronounced, otherwise it is dialect. But the "ne" at the end
of provolone is pronunced "nay" not "knee".

Changing this final vowel sound to something like "nuh" is also dialect,
but pretty common. My mother would pronounce oregano "or-RAY-guh-nuh".
If you look into the written versions of sub-languages like Sicilian
or Napolitano sometimes these changed pronounciations are expressed
in the written language as well.


Steve

[Steve Freides]

Steve Pope wrote:
> Steve Freides <st...@kbnj.com> wrote:
>
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>>> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:08:13 -0400, "Steve Freides" <st...@kbnj.com>
>
>>>> Italian is quite phonetic - what you see is what you get, so that
>>>> final "knee" is, indeed, pronounced, but it's unstressed and
>>>> unaccented and easy to miss if it's said quickly.
>
>> Everything you said is true but I will stand by what I stated above.
>> While there are regiional dialects and indeed, regional languages
>> that predate the modern Italian state, ask anyone in Italy to
>> pronounce either "provolone" or "grazie" and you tell me if you hear
>> it as I've described it or not. The differences, to us Americans,
>> are minor.
>
> I agree with Steve that in Italian all syllables in a word are
> pronounced, otherwise it is dialect. But the "ne" at the end
> of provolone is pronunced "nay" not "knee".

-snip-

Yes - I resisted the temptation to point that out, too, in the interest
of not trying to get people to understand too many points at once.
Italian is pronounced as you see it, and the "e" sound is probably best
thought of as being pronounced like "ay" or "ey" (think "hay" or "hay").
That's still not how it's actually pronounced, however, since one of the
things about English that eludes many non-native speakers is our use of
what's called a vanishing diphthong - our "ay" has a short "i" (as in
"it") or "ee" (as in "bee") at the end of it whereas the Italian (and
French, and Spanish, and most other languages of the world) use one
simple vowel sound only.

-S-

[ViLco]

sf wrote:

> Or maybe that's the way it's pronounced in whatever village of
> Southern Italy (more likely Sicily) where their ancestors came from.

It is possible indeed, when they talk their slang many final vowels get
lost, I woudln't be surprised if a sheperd in southern Italy *talking in his
slang* would say provolon' without the final "e", and usually it is written
with that apostrophe just point out to the elision.

[Julie Bove]

"ViLco" <vill...@tin.it> wrote in message
news:jlc88r$4i2$1...@dont-email.me...

Ah! My in-laws are from Sicily so that could be why they drop the last
syllable.

[George M. Middius]

Chemo the Clown wrote:

> > I just heard somebody on "The Chew" pronounce it "Provolone-knee". I

> For the love of God...you wonder about the strangest things!

sqwishy just wanted an excuse to troll me.

[Steve Pope]

Giusi <deco...@googlemail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:16:11 AM UTC+2, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>> Back in the 1800's, Allesandro Manzoni advocated a national language
>> based on the Florentine dialect. A hundred years later, there are
>> still differences Head on down to a small town in Calabria and you may
>> as well be in China for some of the words and phrases.

>But for that reason, all learn standard Italian which resembles actual
>Tuscan dialect not at all. Ask Vilco about Hoca Hola. People on TV and
>radio have to speak something that is understood evverywhere.

One of the problems with making everyone learn standard Italian is
that this suppresses, and sometimes extincts, dialects and sub-languages.
It is only very recently that Sicilian can be taught again in schools.

In Hawaii, they have now had the foresight to fence off several
hundred students to learn Hawaiian as their primary language
in school. Otherwise, the language would die out completely.

Standardization is not always a good thing.

Steve

[ViLco]

Giusi wrote:

> But for that reason, all learn standard Italian which resembles
> actual Tuscan dialect not at all. Ask Vilco about Hoca Hola.

LOL, good one :)

> People on TV and radio have to speak something that is understood
> evverywhere.

Exactly. Nowadays a lot of TV speakers have a roman accent, but they're
still speking standard italian