COFFEE.... UP A NOTCH
<RJ>
I've been drinking Folgers Columbian coffee.
Now, I'd like to try something a bit better.
My local grocer has a pretty good selection of brands.
I want to go.... "from the container to my coffeemaker"
????
merryb
You need a grinder- try grinding your own. We like Tully's, and there
are a couple of T.J.'s that are pretty good, too.
George
brewing the coffee. For consistent quality for a fair price it is hard
to beat the ubiquitous 8 o'clock coffee bagged beans.
Billy
wrote:
><RJ> wrote:
>> My local grocer has a pretty good selection of brands.
>>
>> I want to go.... "from the container to my coffeemaker"
>The major way to "go up a notch" is to freshly grind the beans before
>brewing the coffee. For consistent quality for a fair price it is hard
>to beat the ubiquitous 8 o'clock coffee bagged beans.
The Eight OClock coffee bean is very good and a very reasonable price.
We can get it for 3.99 a bag....not a pound though. The Italian
Roast has to be a great coffee at half the price or more of
Starbucks.
Mark Thorson
>
> I've been drinking Folgers Columbian coffee.
>
> Now, I'd like to try something a bit better.
I suggest roasting your own. There's no comparison
with canned coffee. Home roasted is so much better.
I have a Fresh Roast Plus 8, and I'm pleased with it.
It can also be used to roast sunflower and pumpkin seeds.
Sheldon
> "" wrote:
>
> > I've been drinking Folgers Columbian coffee.
>
> > Now, I'd like to try something a bit better.
>
> I suggest roasting your own. �There's no comparison
> with canned coffee. �Home roasted is so much better.
Not necessarily. There are too many variables. Not all beans are
created equal. Not all roasting is successful. And not everyone has
the time and inclination to roast beans. And taste is 100 pct
subjective. But most importantly coffee is like 99.44/100 pct about
the water... unless one uses decent water (few have access) all the
money spent on beans, roasting, grinding, and brewing equipment is 100
pct for naught. There is no point whatsoever in spending money on
fancy schmancy beans and equipment if one uses ordinary tap water or
any brand of bottled water... all bottled water is stale and most are
highly contaminated with minerals.
Roasting ones own beans is a crap shoot, not worth the effort unless
doing so satisfies some deep internal primal urge to play with fire.
Effort and resources are much better spent in obtaining decent water.
Freshly drawn RO filtered water is probably the best possible on this
planet.
cybercat
"<RJ>" <bara...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bghbb41rkhgfsnknm...@4ax.com...
The dark premium varieties of Folgers are very good if you like the
Columbian. I like all of the ones that are labeled "dark" on the little
scale on the bottom front of the brick.
Gregory Morrow
cybercat wrote:
> "<RJ>" <bara...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bghbb41rkhgfsnknm...@4ax.com...
> >
> > I've been drinking Folgers Columbian coffee.
> >
> > Now, I'd like to try something a bit better.
> >
> > My local grocer has a pretty good selection of brands.
> >
> > I want to go.... "from the container to my coffeemaker"
> >
> > ????
>
> The dark premium varieties of Folgers
"Folgers"...roflmao...
--
Best
Greg
" I find Greg Morrow lowbrow, witless, and obnoxious. For him to claim that
we are some
kind of comedy team turns my stomach."
- "cybercat" to me on rec.food.cooking
Sheldon
> "<RJ>" wrote:
>
> > I've been drinking Folgers Columbian coffee.
>
> > Now, I'd like to try something a bit better.
>
> > My local grocer has a pretty good selection of brands.
>
>
> The dark premium varieties of Folgers are very good.
> I like all of the ones that are labeled "dark" on the
An Obama goil! <G>
Gregory Morrow
Sheldon wrote:
"Once you go black you'll *never* go back..."
;-p
--
Best
Greg
Saerah Gray
<FlyPrahaBangkokByC...@flyokayflycsa.cz> fnord
news:jqOdnXFIzNrRbijV...@earthlink.com:
eh. I wouldn't say that.
--
Saerah
"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL
notbob
> with canned coffee. Home roasted is so much better.
>
> http://www.sweetmarias.com/
Finally. Someone else to spread the coffee gospel. Tell 'em, Mark. I'm
talked out. ;)
nb
James Silverton
>> with canned coffee. Home roasted is so much better.
>>
>> http://www.sweetmarias.com/
> Finally. Someone else to spread the coffee gospel. Tell 'em,
> Mark. I'm talked out. ;)
There is a limit to how much work I am willing to do for very little
effect. I do grind my own coffee beans, bought vacuum sealed and kept in
the freezer but roasting my own is *out*. Frozen beans don't need
defrosting before grinding.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
notbob
> Roasting ones own beans is a crap shoot.....
Gotta disagree with you on this one, Shel. My worst roast has always been
better than the best mega-dreck on the grocer's shelf. The only exception
was when I roasted 2 yr old beans. Ick. Green does not keep forever, as
some would have you belive.
nb
notbob
> The dark premium varieties of Folgers are very good if you like the
> Columbian. I like all of the ones that are labeled "dark" on the little
> scale on the bottom front of the brick.
Dark is not a varietal, but a length of roast. Any bean can be roasted dark,
but a good coffee is roasted to bring out the best qualities of that
particular variety of bean. A good Columbian should not be roasted dark.
nb
cybercat
"notbob" <not...@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:slrngbdh94...@bb.nothome.com...
I am talking about varieties as in the brand "Folgers" and a different name
after that, then the designation "dark."
FFS, the man asked for "up a notch," not instructions on growing his own
beans. And the assumption that just because I drink standard coffee means
that I know nothing about coffee is asinine. Just like the reason I don't do
Starbucks is not because I can't afford it. Back in my younger, more
superficial days I spent a lot more on haircuts, coffee, and clothes. Now I
have different priorities.
Mark Thorson
>
> notbob wrote on Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:24:26 GMT:
>
> >> with canned coffee. Home roasted is so much better.
> >>
> >> http://www.sweetmarias.com/
>
> > Finally. Someone else to spread the coffee gospel. Tell 'em,
> > Mark. I'm talked out. ;)
>
> There is a limit to how much work I am willing to do for very little
> effect. I do grind my own coffee beans, bought vacuum sealed and kept in
> the freezer but roasting my own is *out*. Frozen beans don't need
> defrosting before grinding.
But it's not little effect. There's no comparison
with supermarket coffee, even whole-bean pre-roasted.
And it's not much work. Brewing the coffee is more work
than roasting. Making a batch of popcorn is more work
than roasting a batch of coffee.
Plus, you get to control the roast to exactly what
you like. Part of the fun is exploring what roast
you like best. I like it dark, but not as dark as
when I was buying supermarket coffee.
Also, exploring the different beans is fun too.
I find I like the beans from southern Colombia
the best, the Popayan and Huila departments.
Sumatran Mandheling is also good.
When I first started roasting, I almost had to
laugh at the idea that coffee could have flavor
notes like blueberries. But I have made coffee
three times in which I could detect flavors like
blueberries. That's really good coffee, and I
doubt any supermarket coffee has ever had that
flavor. The bean, roast, and brewing technique
must all be just right to bring that out.
Gregory Morrow
cybercat wrote:
> "notbob" <not...@nothome.com> wrote in message
> news:slrngbdh94...@bb.nothome.com...
> > On 2008-08-27, cybercat <cyber...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The dark premium varieties of Folgers are very good if you like the
> >> Columbian. I like all of the ones that are labeled "dark" on the little
> >> scale on the bottom front of the brick.
> >
> > Dark is not a varietal, but a length of roast. Any bean can be roasted
> > dark,
> > but a good coffee is roasted to bring out the best qualities of that
> > particular variety of bean. A good Columbian should not be roasted
dark.
> >
>
> I am talking about varieties as in the brand "Folgers" and a different
name
> after that, then the designation "dark."
Should we run your above statement through Babelfish...say from English to
Latvian to Japanese and then back to Engrish...it'd prolly make about as
much sense...
> FFS, the man asked for "up a notch," not instructions on growing his own
> beans. And the assumption that just because I drink standard coffee means
> that I know nothing about coffee is asinine.
Oh, are you trying to be "ironic" here, cybercat...???
<snigger>
Just like the reason I don't do
> Starbucks is not because I can't afford it. Back in my younger, more
> superficial days I spent a lot more on haircuts, coffee, and clothes. Now
I
> have different priorities.
You might spend a few bux on buying some brain cells - or even trying to
find a cure for your chronic "footinmouthus" disease...
Mark Thorson
They're are many different Columbians.
The ones I buy can be roasted dark. You're
right that most Columbians are at their best
when cutting off the roast before second crack*,
but that's true of most good coffees.
Also note the difference between brewed coffee
and espresso. It's my impression that espresso
drinkers want more lightly roasted coffees.
I don't make espresso. I was definitely
considering getting a machine, but after
learning of the cholesterol risk, I decided
to stick with brewed coffee. Coffee contains
the diterpenes cafestol and kahweol, which raise
LDL (bad cholesterol), but paper filters absorb
nearly all of these diterpenes.
I suppose it also depends on what you call dark.
I listen for the beginning of second crack
and count out 30 seconds before cutting
off the roast. If the second crack becomes
vigorous, I'll cut it off earlier than that.
(* When roasting coffee, it makes a loud cracking
sound almost like popcorn popping. That's
called first crack. Then the sound dies away
for a few minutes, to be followed by a more
delicate cracking sound. That's second crack.)
notbob
> They're are many different Columbians.
> The ones I buy can be roasted dark. You're
> right that most Columbians are at their best
> when cutting off the roast before second crack*,
> but that's true of most good coffees.
Typically, a lighter roast brings out the floral essences of a variety, but
has less body (mouthfeel). Longer roasts have less of the former and more
of the latter, generally speaking.
> Also note the difference between brewed coffee
> and espresso. It's my impression that espresso
> drinkers want more lightly roasted coffees.
Espresso coffees are typically roasted darker, full city at least. The
flavor is determined by a blend of different varietals.
> I don't make espresso. I was definitely
> considering getting a machine, but after
> learning of the cholesterol risk, I decided
> to stick with brewed coffee. Coffee contains
> the diterpenes cafestol and kahweol, which raise
> LDL (bad cholesterol), but paper filters absorb
> nearly all of these diterpenes.
Not heard of this. I would like more info, Mark, if you would be so kind.
> I suppose it also depends on what you call dark.
> I listen for the beginning of second crack
> and count out 30 seconds before cutting
> off the roast.
My std compromise roast is about 10 secs into 2nd crack. Gives the best
of both worlds and can be easily modified from there.
> for a few minutes, to be followed by a more
> delicate cracking sound.
I liken it to the sound of rice crispies. ;)
nb
Sheldon
wrote:
> �notbob �wrote �on Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:24:26 GMT:
>
> >> with canned coffee. �Home roasted is so much better.
>
> >>http://www.sweetmarias.com/
> > Finally. �Someone else to spread the coffee gospel. �Tell 'em,
> > Mark. �I'm talked out. �;)
>
> There is a limit to how much work I am willing to do for very little
> effect. I do grind my own coffee beans, bought vacuum sealed and kept in
> the freezer but roasting my own is *out*.
Most folks are looking for a cup of coffee that's *consistant*. Few
folks have a clue about buying raw beans, even those who claim they
know are in fact relying on some coffee dealer like Marias.com, or
their neighborhood coffee purveyor who also puts on a pretense of
expertise by tossing about weird foreign sounding terminology and the
number of burlap sacks and spilled beans on the floor... all a lotta
hyperbole.
When I buy Eight O'Clock beans I get consistancy year after year after
year and I don't need to do anything but properly *grind* with a burr
grinder (those stoopid whirly thingies are incapable of grinding...
what's the point of talking roasting when one doesn't own a quality
burr grinder) and supply high quality water... once again, coffee is
no different from other beverages, it's ALL about the water regardless
which coffee because taste is 100 pct subjective... there is no reason
to concern oneself about coffee quality when one brews with murky
mystery water straight from the tap, or worse, fercocktah fetid
bottled *stale* water from someone elses tap. It makes as much sense
to buy premium beans and brew with mystery water as it is to use top
shelf scotch for a sour.
Kswck
"Sheldon" <PENM...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:95b8fa6a-5bab-4061...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 28, 11:28?am, "James Silverton" <not.jim.silver...@verizon.not>
wrote:
> ?notbob ?wrote ?on Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:24:26 GMT:
>
> >> with canned coffee. ?Home roasted is so much better.
>
> >>http://www.sweetmarias.com/
> > Finally. ?Someone else to spread the coffee gospel. ?Tell 'em,
> > Mark. ?I'm talked out. ?;)
>
> There is a limit to how much work I am willing to do for very little
> effect. I do grind my own coffee beans, bought vacuum sealed and kept in
> the freezer but roasting my own is *out*.
Most folks are looking for a cup of coffee that's *consistant*. Few
folks have a clue about buying raw beans, even those who claim they
know are in fact relying on some coffee dealer like Marias.com, or
their neighborhood coffee purveyor who also puts on a pretense of
expertise by tossing about weird foreign sounding terminology and the
number of burlap sacks and spilled beans on the floor... all a lotta
hyperbole.
When I buy Eight O'Clock beans I get consistancy year after year after
year and I don't need to do anything but properly *grind* with a burr
grinder (those stoopid whirly thingies are incapable of grinding...
what's the point of talking roasting when one doesn't own a quality
burr grinder) and supply high quality water... once again, coffee is
no different from other beverages, it's ALL about the water regardless
which coffee because taste is 100 pct subjective... there is no reason
to concern oneself about coffee quality when one brews with murky
mystery water straight from the tap, or worse, fercocktah fetid
bottled *stale* water from someone elses tap. It makes as much sense
to buy premium beans and brew with mystery water as it is to use top
shelf scotch for a sour.
Like the idiot who only ordered Stoli and OJ and swore he could taste the
difference in his vodka?
notbob
> When I buy Eight O'Clock beans I get consistancy year after year after
> year....
Do you prepare chicken only one way and drink only one wine, "year after
year after year", also? Sounds horribly boring.
nb
Mark Thorson
>
> On 2008-08-28, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > I don't make espresso. I was definitely
> > considering getting a machine, but after
> > learning of the cholesterol risk, I decided
> > to stick with brewed coffee. Coffee contains
> > the diterpenes cafestol and kahweol, which raise
> > LDL (bad cholesterol), but paper filters absorb
> > nearly all of these diterpenes.
>
> Not heard of this. I would like more info, Mark, if you would be so kind.
Here's a link to an article in the British Medical Journal
on the subject:
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/313/7069/1362
I believe the term "cafetiere coffee" means the same thing
as French press.
While I agree with those who say the risk seems
to be only significant at high consumption levels,
I tend to be prudent about such things.
> > I suppose it also depends on what you call dark.
> > I listen for the beginning of second crack
> > and count out 30 seconds before cutting
> > off the roast.
>
> My std compromise roast is about 10 secs into 2nd crack.
> Gives the best of both worlds and can be easily modified from there.
I suppose it depends when you start counting.
I start when I hear the first sound of second
crack, but I start counting over again if I
don't hear another one right away, to exclude
outliers. I shoot for just barely past the point
where I'm solidly in second crack. If it's really
popping, I ignore the timing and stop the roast.
I also take smoke and aroma into account, because
there are changes in both which occur at this point.
> > for a few minutes, to be followed by a more
> > delicate cracking sound.
>
> I liken it to the sound of rice crispies. ;)
I hadn't thought of that. That's a great description.
Second crack is a bit louder than that, but if
first crack is like popcorn, second crack is like
rice crispies.
Mark Thorson
I think he drinks coffee out of habit, not with
appreciation of the material. Remember, he's
ex-Navy.
It's like smokers. Habitual smokers usually settle
into one favorite brand, and smoke that exclusively.
But connoisseurs (mostly pipe and cigar smokers)
rotate among brands.
Likewise, habitual beer drinkers usually drink Bud
or something, but enthusiast beer drinkers will
drink their own brew, the product of micro-brewers,
or some of the better mass-market brewers.
Sheldon
> On 2008-08-28, Sheldon <PENMAR...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > When I buy Eight O'Clock beans I get consistancy year after year after
> > year....
>
> Do you prepare chicken only one way and drink only one wine, "year after
> year after year", also? �Sounds horribly boring. �
>
> nb
Eight O'Clock sells like 6-8 different coffees, all consistant within
type, I mostly use regular but occasionally switch. I sometimes do
Bustello too. But no, I don't go after coffee like a kid in a candy
store, I prefer consistant but boring. I only drink coffee in the
morning, two big mugs of black... I don't want any surprises first
thing in the AM. I don't touch coffee the rest of the day.
Many years ago I had my own coffee business. The very best coffees
are preground, premeasured nitrogen packed, but they are expensive.
dsi1
> I've been drinking Folgers Columbian coffee.
>
> Now, I'd like to try something a bit better.
>
>
> I want to go.... "from the container to my coffeemaker"
>
> ????
>
I really like the Trung Nguyen brand which is a coffee from Vietnam.
Forget about brewing using a VN style brewing system - you'll die
waiting for the drip through. I just dump it in my drip machine. I use a
little less than a coffee measure for each cup. The brew is dark and
flavorful and not harsh or burnt-tasting at all and has a groovy
chocolate taste. :-)
notbob
> morning, two big mugs of black... I don't want any surprises first
> thing in the AM. I don't touch coffee the rest of the day.
I'm pretty much the same, but get bored with one coffee after about 2 wks.
The flavor becomes almost non-existent for me, so I have to change.
> Many years ago I had my own coffee business. The very best coffees
> are preground, premeasured nitrogen packed, but they are expensive.
Illy is a prime example. But, that was "many years ago", as you say. Like
good wines and good food, things have changed. Coffee has moved beyond "a
cup of joe". I'm also quite happy to say I now have some of the best water
in the US. ;)
nb
notbob
> I really like the Trung Nguyen brand which is a coffee from Vietnam.
I'll look into that. Did you know that VN is infamous for growing low grade
robustas favored by the mega-dreck marketers at dirt cheap prices and has
flooded the market with crummy coffee. I'd be surprised to learn of a good
coffee out of VN, but nothing is impossible.
nb
Gregory Morrow
notbob wrote:
At the local Viet stores I notice that Cafe de Monde is also often
prominently displayed. It's cut with some chicory, which is IIRC the way
the Viets - and myself - like it. It's not too great of a coffee, but it's
$3.99 per can at the Asian places vs. $8.00 - something per can at the local
stupormarkets...
FWIW here's the Trung Nguyen site, at which you can learn about "The Legend
Of The Weasel" :-) :
http://www.trung-nguyen-online.com/
"Legendee: The Legend of the Weasel
One of the world's famous coffees, the Legendee is a unique
enzymatically-treated coffee that releases flavors often bound in the beans
and not released under ordinary processing.
The "Legend" has to do with stories about natives who drank a brew from
washed coffee beans that had been partly digested by small furry animals
that don't really have a counterpart in the Western world (a civet more than
a "weasel"). The "real" civet coffee is said to incredibly rich, mellow and
chocolatey. This obviously low-volume, expensive coffee encouraged
experiments by Trung Nguyen that were performed by a staff of European
scientists who eventually found natural enzymes that duplicate this process
and leaves the weasels (civets) to blissfully go their own way.
Trung Nguyen was the original pioneer of this process and it has not been
duplicated by any other coffee maker. The process produces a coffee unlike
any other in the world, with a wide range of rich flavors and virtually no
bitterness.
When iced, it releases a flavor explosion that makes it, in many people's
opinion, the world's best iced coffee. You will never look at a cup of donut
shop iced coffee or Charbucks the same way again.
Tourists to Vietnam often don't consider their visit complete until they
have sat in a Trung Nguyen coffeehouse and tried the Legendee brewed by the
single-cup filters...."
</>
Billy
>Sounds horribly boring.
Maybe to you...but when it comes to coffee, I don't NEED surprises
with the next batch.
Saerah Gray
news:g96p2h$d2p$1...@registered.motzarella.org:
>
> FFS, the man asked for "up a notch," not instructions on growing his
> own beans. And the assumption that just because I drink standard
> coffee means that I know nothing about coffee is asinine. Just like
> the reason I don't do Starbucks is not because I can't afford it.
Funny, the reason I don't "do" Starbucks is because their coffee sucks (at
least for the price you pay for it)
merryb
> "cybercat" <cyberpu...@yahoo.com> fnordnews:g96p2h$d2p$1...@registered.motzarella.org:
I agree- Tully's, or even better,Torrefazione. Starbucks tastes burnt
to me.
notbob
> Maybe to you...but when it comes to coffee, I don't NEED surprises
> with the next batch.
Ain't it great that we are all different? ;)
nb
notbob
> I agree- Tully's, or even better,Torrefazione. Starbucks tastes burnt
> to me.
They don't call it "charbucks" for nothing. ;)
nb
Billy
Saerah Gray
dsi1
You probably know more about the situation than I. All of what you say
is probably true - all I know is that the coffee suits my taste. I no
longer wish to drink burnt coffee. :-)
dsi1
:-) Thanks for the little story. I did not know that.
<RJ>
I'd almost forgotten about 8 o-clock coffee.
At the rate that I drink coffee, ( 2 mugs in the am. )
a bag of "8 o-clock" in the freezer should last a few weeks.
Hmmm... I wonder if they still market Bokar & Red Circle ?
Thanks to all who responded.
cybercat
"<RJ>" <bara...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9vqfb4pnm93j8604q...@4ax.com...
>
>
> I'd almost forgotten about 8 o-clock coffee.
>
> At the rate that I drink coffee, ( 2 mugs in the am. )
> a bag of "8 o-clock" in the freezer should last a few weeks.
>
You drink twice as much as I do!
blake murphy
> Billy <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> fnord news:1ageb49bhr18hp40pddorpcmo7gcnqg1m8
> @4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:44:48 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2008-08-28, merryb <msg...@juno.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree- Tully's, or even better,Torrefazione. Starbucks tastes burnt
>>>> to me.
>>>
>>>They don't call it "charbucks" for nothing. ;)
>>>
>>>nb
>>
>>
>> Ain't it great that we are all different? ;)
>>
>>
>>
>
> Theoretically.
but all those 'different' people insist on being wrong! it's a fucking
outrage!
your pal,
blake