Secret recipes
Boron Elgar
frequent about refusing to give out recipes when an interested party
inquires. I was surprised that the majority opinion in the other
group seemed to be that refusing to share recipes was perfectly
understandable & at times really preferable.
I realize that there are times when one cannot divulge information
that is not one's own ("Gram made me promise," "The chef does not
allow it") or a business venture is involved somehow (Con-Agra is
buying rights to my Sawdust-Soy-Similac Brownie recipe tomorrow,) but
there seemed over there to be an attitude more of "Harumph, I worked
on perfecting this & it's MINE" or "If I give up my recipe, which only
I in my wisdom am capable of preparing, this bubblehead will only
screw it up & then complain to me." And yes...there are always
exceptions to the rules, too.
Granted, one of the primary purposes of rfc is to share knowledge of
techniques, ingredients & recipes, so it is a rarified sample of whom
I inquire, but I am curious to know opinions around here, as well as
gather a few anecdotes in which one was asked for or inquired about a
recipe only to run into difficulty of one sort or another.
I, myself, believe that it is as great a delightful to teach and pass
on information as it to acquire and master it, but maybe I am out of
step.
Maybe I am asking for a recipe for trouble.....
Boron
Jill Yelverton
"Boron Elgar" <boron...@hootmail.com> wrote in message
news:86es7us03cig8vc87...@4ax.com...
: There has been an ongoing discussion in another usenet group I
: frequent about refusing to give out recipes when an interested party
: inquires. I was surprised that the majority opinion in the other
: group seemed to be that refusing to share recipes was perfectly
: understandable & at times really preferable.
:
: Boron
I don't believe that there is such a thing as a "unique" recipe under the
sun. Some one, some where, some how, has surely done it before.
Anybody that's that miserly with their knowlege just likes to hear
themselves talk but doesn't want to be challenged by some one actually
making their recipe and offering a critique that might not be favorable. All
the "Top Secret" recipe books are proof that even restaurants that guard
their recipes can be foiled by a person with discerning tastebuds. We don't
get to eat out much any more but when we did, one of my favorite things was
to try to recreate at home something that I'd liked in a restaurant.
Jill
Richard Caley
be> there seemed over there to be an attitude more of "Harumph, I worked
be> on perfecting this & it's MINE" or "If I give up my recipe, which only
be> I in my wisdom am capable of preparing, this bubblehead will only
be> screw it up & then complain to me."
I would tend to view those two arguments through my computer nerd
glasses: If you aren't wiling to show how clever you are, it probably
indicates you are afraid it will show you weren't really that clever,
and giving out the recipe will probably reduce the number of
complaints since they won't be blindly groping around and phoning you
up to ask wht their efforts don't work.
Basicly, if secrecy is involved what is happening isn't primarilly
cooking. It may be commerce or it may be politics or it may be
snobbery or whatever, but cooking is firmly secondary. Craftsmen in
any field tend to want to talk about their craft in my experience.
--
Mail me as MYFIR...@MYLASTNAME.org.uk _O_
|<
Deacon
I kind of agree with you, I cook for the enjoyment of others and the
more I can help and share then I think I am getting the most
fulfillment out of my hobby....
Peter Aitken
I agree with you 100%. I really am pleased when someone asks for a recipe,
and in fact I have put my better ones on a web site for all to enjoy
(http://www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm if you are interested). There is
something rather pitiful about a person who refuses to share a personal
recipe. It seems extremely petty and selfish to me.
Peter G. Aitken
Curly Sue
<boron...@hootmail.com> wrote:
Someone once asked me for a recipe which I had finessed and I gave it
to her, only to find out later that she was passing it out to her
friends on cards labeled "(Her name)'s Stew." Perhaps that's the type
of thing people find annoying.
It may be a bother to write out a recipe for someone. Sometimes
people do make substitutions or for some other reason it doesn't come
out the same. I gave a recipe for Harvey Wallbanger cake to someone
(a very good baker) who says that hers doesn't come out the same as
mine. I have no idea why that is- perhaps the oven? Fortunately, she
doesn't blame me for giving her a bad recipe.
The only time someone refused to give me a recipe was one that she
obtained from a chef with the explicit promise not to give it to
anyone else. I can understand the chef's point to a certain degree;
s/he is selling the final product, not the process. Yet chefs who
write whole cookbooks or post recipes on the web seem to be doing OK
with their restaurants!
If someone doesn't want to give me a recipe, that's OK; I don't feel I
have a right to it just because I enjoyed the food.
OTOH, if one does give out a recipe, integrity demands that the recipe
shouldn't be intentionally inaccurate. One shouldn't waste other
people's time and money by leaving out ingredients or some other
deception.
Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
sue at interport dotnet
Curly Sue
There may be a limit to how much they talk. Some craftsmen make their
name with a secret process, eg. pottery glazes or tints.
That is commerce, of course!
Arri London
Everyone has the right to their 'intellectual property'.
However, I've solved the problem by never using recipes.
When someone asks me for the recipe, I tell them what I did:
brown some onions, then some pork (or whatever), add some
coriander seeds, cumin seeds, mustard seeds...., add water
or stock, simmer until done. If someone can duplicate any
dish I cooked from one eating of it, that's great. I can't
duplicate my own cooking in any case.
It is annoying when someone gets a recipe off of someone
else and then passes it off as their own. With concept
recipes this isn't a problem.
rosie@readandpost
> OTOH, if one does give out a recipe, integrity demands that the recipe
> shouldn't be intentionally inaccurate.
oh does that bring back memories..................................
my FIRST mother-in-law gave me her recipe for SWEET POTATO PIE without any
sugar or sweetener added.
i was young and very "new to the kitchen" and didn't know the difference.
i made the pie, and took it to my families house for THANKSGIVING!
what a disappointment!
(and i KNOW the *%$#@ did it on purpose)
Kate Connally
Well, I almost always share my recipes but I believe
in anyone's right to share or not as they see fit
for whatever reason. If someone doesn't want to share
their recipe that's their business and their right.
Kate
--
Kate Connally
"If I were as old as I feel, I'd be dead already."
Goldfish: "The wholesome snack that smiles back,
until you bite their heads off."
What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?
mailto:conn...@pitt.edu
userb3
>If someone doesn't want to give me a recipe, that's OK; I don't feel I
>have a right to it just because I enjoyed the food.
The key concept.
--
userb3
Founding member of the Axis of Curmudgeonliness
Sheryl Rosen
s...@addressin.sig wrote on 2/28/02 10:03 AM:
Not to mention, the RSVP section in Bon Appetit, where readers write in
asking them to get a recipe from a restaurant for something they
particularly enjoyed.
It's good business for the restaurant, particularly if it's in an area where
they get a lot of tourism or business travel. If I am reading BA, and see a
recipe for something that looks absolutely scrumptious from some restaurant
in Chicago, and I make it and it IS scrumptious....I might be more inclined
to stop in there next time I'm in Chicago and have dinner.
I would think a good idea would be, take the item off the menu for a few
months after it appears in print--come up with something equally terrific to
take its place on the menu. Keep up the mystery!!! After all, if someone
can now make your famous "whatever" at home, come up with something else to
become famous.
Imitation is, afterall, the sincerest form of flattery.
GaryG
cook by feel, almost never measure. The part the really bugs me are those
people seeking recipes and later including them in a book or posting as if
as their own. I think you have discovered a group that fear plagiarism
greater then the joy had by sharing with others.
--
GaryG, from beautiful Temecula, CA.
If I am not back to you in a timely fashion,
I am either out letting the Big Dawg hunt,
or riding my Road King into a better frame:)
"Boron Elgar" <boron...@hootmail.com> wrote in message
news:86es7us03cig8vc87...@4ax.com...
Billy
>Some craftsmen make their
>name with a secret process, eg. pottery glazes or tints.
Exactly Sue.......and we probably will never know the secret in making a product
like Milk Duds. I am not going to set here and wring my hands worrying about
how I can get the recipe. Some things in life are JUST NOT that important.
"Happiness is good health and a bad memory."
Ingrid Bergman, Swedish-born actress (1915-1982).
Muckerheide
> From: Boron Elgar <boron...@hootmail.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:03:58 -0500
> Subject: Secret recipes
> I am curious to know opinions around here, as well as
> gather a few anecdotes in which one was asked for or inquired about a
> recipe only to run into difficulty of one sort or another.
>
> Boron
I once asked the owner-cook at a deli where I ate lunch most days for her
recipe for Sweet and Sour Cabbage soup, and she surprised me by writing it
out for me. (I had heard she refused to share usually) Years passed and
she died, and more time went by and I got a call from her daughter who had
lost the only copy of the recipe. She remembered her mother mentioning she
had given a copy to me. I was able to supply it, which brought a little sip
of her special brand of immortality back to her family. Don't think I would
ever keep a recipe a secret after that story. (BTW, I won a local soup
contest with it, giving Sadie Lieb full credit.)
Linda
Jill Yelverton
"Curly Sue" <s...@addressin.sig> wrote in message
news:3c7e4307.2734710@news-:
: Someone once asked me for a recipe which I had finessed and I gave it
: to her, only to find out later that she was passing it out to her
: friends on cards labeled "(Her name)'s Stew." Perhaps that's the type
: of thing people find annoying.
:
: It may be a bother to write out a recipe for someone. Sometimes
: people do make substitutions or for some other reason it doesn't come
: out the same. I gave a recipe for Harvey Wallbanger cake to someone
: (a very good baker) who says that hers doesn't come out the same as
: mine. I have no idea why that is- perhaps the oven? Fortunately, she
: doesn't blame me for giving her a bad recipe.
Plagerism is the most sincere form of flattery.
Jill
Siobhan Perricone
wrote:
>Granted, one of the primary purposes of rfc is to share knowledge of
>techniques, ingredients & recipes, so it is a rarified sample of whom
>I inquire, but I am curious to know opinions around here, as well as
>gather a few anecdotes in which one was asked for or inquired about a
>recipe only to run into difficulty of one sort or another.
I think that refusing to share recipes is the height of egotism and
selfishness. "I want to be the ONLY person who can make this."
Even restaurants that won't give out their signature recipes drive me nuts.
I just seriously doubt that people would stop coming to eat there just
because they can make a similar dish according to the recipe (it's seldom
exactly the same) at home. People eat out for more than just the food, and
a huge percentage of people will eat out regardless of whether the recipe
is available or not. And recipes being available won't stop those of us who
DO cook from going out to dinner.
There's this fantastic Mexican food restaurant in Mason City, Iowa that
makes this wonderful brown gravy for topping its enchiladas. I've never
found that sauce, or a recipe that replicates it, anywhere else. I've
called them many times through the years, BEGGING them for the recipe (I
don't even LIVE near there any more) and they REFUSE to divulge it. I've
told them that it wouldn't stop me coming in because I don't even live
where I COULD come in. They won't budge. They will not share the recipe.
And I WANT THAT GRAVY!!
--
Siobhan Perricone
"Still to us the earth is a healer, a teacher, a mother,
A weaver of a web of life that keeps us all alive.
She gives us the vision to see through the chaos.
She gives us the courage. It is our will to survive."
- Rumors of the Big Wave "The Burning Times"
Richard Caley
cs> There may be a limit to how much they talk. Some craftsmen make their
cs> name with a secret process, eg. pottery glazes or tints.
cs> That is commerce, of course!
Indeed, and it is what patents were created for.
Also, I think most craftsmen would feel it was a slur if you implied
that their sucess depended on the kinds of things one can be secretive
about. In cooking, the recipe is only sthe start of the issue. A good
cook needs the skill to apply the recipe to the actual ingreedients
and kitchen they find themselves confronted with.
Your potter may have a secret glaze, but that is just a side issue,
what makes a master is the skill, not the recipe.
david wright
wrote:
[snip]
>I once asked the owner-cook at a deli where I ate lunch most days for her
>recipe for Sweet and Sour Cabbage soup, and she surprised me by writing it
>out for me. (I had heard she refused to share usually) Years passed and
>she died, and more time went by and I got a call from her daughter who had
>lost the only copy of the recipe. She remembered her mother mentioning she
>had given a copy to me. I was able to supply it, which brought a little sip
>of her special brand of immortality back to her family. Don't think I would
>ever keep a recipe a secret after that story. (BTW, I won a local soup
>contest with it, giving Sadie Lieb full credit.)
>
>Linda
Thank you, Linda. What a good story.
David
Hag & Stenni
<boron...@hootmail.com> wrote:
Well I figure if I liked something I will ask for the Rec,
They can say yes or no. Of course I will be dissapointed if
they dont choose to share, but hey it is their perogative. I
dont horde rec myself, not on purpose anyway...LOL...the
unfortunate thing is that often when I make something its on
the fly, so while I can give an approximation it wont be
exact and the results cant be gauraunteed...I do have
several rec that are always a hit, and I have really buckled
down and taken notes and compiled fairly acturate
rec/instructions for theses so that I may share them.
The exception to this- I have several of my pops sausage
recipies, I dont share these, He sell sausage as a business
and dosnt want them disceminated...I respect that, its his
business and income were talking about there...
Cooking is something that I deeply love, and it just thrills
me when somebody expresses an interest in it, I love to talk
to folks about it and compare notes/techniques...I love the
feeling of making something that is just Kick-Ass and being
asked "How did you do that" "Can I have the Rec"...It just
feels good. By giving them the recipie I imagine that I am
passing along to them that good feeling I got from making it
and having it so well recieved...That feels even better!
Hag...No Top Secret Recipies Here (Except Dad's....LOL)..k
can the spam to reply...
Siobhan Perricone
>Everyone has the right to their 'intellectual property'.
I am perfectly happy to give full credit to the creator. I just want to
MAKE IT TOO!
Hag & Stenni
<gsgo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I have no problem giving someone my ingredients for a recipe. Problem is I
>cook by feel, almost never measure. The part the really bugs me are those
>people seeking recipes and later including them in a book or posting as if
>as their own. I think you have discovered a group that fear plagiarism
>greater then the joy had by sharing with others.
>
>--
>GaryG, from beautiful Temecula, CA.
That would annoy me also...Im not really possesive of my
recipies, or the little tricks of the trade I use, but to
take a rec verbatim and put it in a book for profit w/out
attributing the author is well stealing I think...very
slimey behavior...If I have had a rec for a long time, I may
not remember exactly where it came from, but I dont claim it
as my "OWN"...and while I may have tweaked it out of all
recognition to the original it is still derivative of the
original...I dont however think this applys when you take a
general pool of knowledge and aspects from a variety of recs
you like and combine them to create something new. That is
your creation - for what its worth...lol...I dont really
think there is much new under the food sun, just wonderful
voyage of rediscovery.....YM- and opinions - MV...Hag k
Puester
> It may be a bother to write out a recipe for someone. Sometimes
> people do make substitutions or for some other reason it doesn't come
> out the same. I gave a recipe for Harvey Wallbanger cake to someone
> (a very good baker) who says that hers doesn't come out the same as
> mine. I have no idea why that is- perhaps the oven? Fortunately, she
> doesn't blame me for giving her a bad recipe.
LOL. My late mother-in-law was not a very inspired or spicy cook and
used to ask for my recipes all the time. It drove me crazy when she
would call and say "I made your recipe for X last night and it was very
nice. I didn't have chicken so I used pork and I didn't have basil home
so I substituted parsley. We can't have much salt so I left it out, and
I couldn't find gruyere cheese so I used Kraft parmesan. I didn't feel
like making fresh herbed breadcrumbs, so I used crushed saltines, but it
turned out quite well...."
You get the idea. I don't ever mind sharing recipes, even if they
are ones I invented, and if the recipient decides to modify them, at
least they knew what it was SUPPOSED to taste like when I made it, and
any variation is at their own risk.
gloria p
Alan Zelt
Perhaps extreme, but have you considered giving your "friend" a recipe
that will not yield the planned results? Some lessons are meant to be
painful! :)
--
Alan
"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener
Peter Aitken
news:2axf8.185$cd2.2...@news1.atlantic.net...
Not to be a nag but it is "plagiarism." You are right, I think - if someone
gets huge charge out of passing my recipes off as their own then it reflects
well on me and poorly on them.
--
Peter Aitken
Remove the crap from my email address before using.
Peter Aitken
--
Peter Aitken
Remove the crap from my email address before using.
"Siobhan Perricone" <morgan...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:bdbt7uockmb3uifvc...@4ax.com...
It might be because the gravy recipe includes ingredients that should not be
mentioned in polite company!
Peter G. Aitken
Jill Yelverton
"Peter Aitken" <pai...@CRAPnc.rr.com> wrote in message news:CpAf8.201:
: Not to be a nag but it is "plagiarism." You are right, I think - if
someone
: gets huge charge out of passing my recipes off as their own then it
reflects
: well on me and poorly on them.
:
:
: --
: Peter Aitken
:
: Remove the crap from my email address before using.
:
Exactly!
Jill
Peter Aitken
news:qrjt7u0t85ctcqs1j...@4ax.com...
> Peter:
>
> Thanks for the recipe link. I have downloaded a few. I was
> especially pleased to see your lamb shank recipe. I love lamb shanks
> and always looking for new ways to cook them.
>
> Thanks for sharing.
>
> If you are interested in low-fat gourmet recipes, you can find mine
> at:
>
> www.mardiweb.com/lowfat
>
> You would be surprised how tasty low-fat food can be when you spice it
> up!
>
Thanks for your nice comments. I agree about the low fat food - I always
find that it tastes fine if you add enough butter <g>.
Peter Aitken
news:87wuwxc...@bast.r.caley.org.uk...
Good point. Bad cook + good recipe = bad dish.
Jill Yelverton
"M. Wetmore" <nob...@nospam.pacbell.net.invalid> wrote in message
: On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:27:57 GMT, Siobhan Perricone
: <morgan...@starband.net> wrote:
:
: >On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:03:58 -0500, Boron Elgar
OOPS! Hit the wrong button last time.
Maybe the reason that they won't share the recipe is because it is something
they bought canned from their food service and haven't the faintest idea
what's in it.
Jill
Jill Yelverton
"M. Wetmore" <nob...@nospam.pacbell.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:lukt7ug2dehtrn27r...@4ax.com...
: On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:27:57 GMT, Siobhan Perricone
: <morgan...@starband.net> wrote:
:
: I want it too. One of my favorite Mexican restaurants serves a light
: brown gravy over their enchaladas and I just love it. My problem is
: that they don't speak english very well and I doubt they could tell me
: the recipe if they wanted to.
:
: Anyone out there have a mexican brown gravy recipe to share?
:
: Mardi
:
: Real e-mail address spelled out to prevent spam. mardi at mardiweb dot
com.
: ____________________
:
: Come visit my Web Graphics on a Budget home page for Paint Shop
: Pro tutorials, free graphics and fonts. http://www.mardiweb.com/web
: _________________
:
: Come visit my Low-Fat Lifestyle Forum for low-fat eating and
: cooking tips and lots of low-fat recipes. http://www.mardiweb.com/lowfat
bsre pls remove nospam to reply
"Puester" <pue...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3C7ECD93...@worldnet.att.net...
My grandmother was a great baker- and gave out her recipes with pleasure,
asking only that if even one little thing was "substituted" to please not
say it was "May's recipe" !!! :)
Peg
Curly Sue
<MYFIR...@MYLASTNAME.org.uk> wrote:
>In article <3c7e4763...@news-server.nyc.rr.com>, Curly Sue (cs) writes:
>
>cs> There may be a limit to how much they talk. Some craftsmen make their
>cs> name with a secret process, eg. pottery glazes or tints.
>
>cs> That is commerce, of course!
>
>Indeed, and it is what patents were created for.
Patents are for people who care to and can afford to go through the
process and who will subsequently license their property.
>Also, I think most craftsmen would feel it was a slur if you implied
>that their sucess depended on the kinds of things one can be secretive
>about.
We are not talking about most craftsmen, er, craftspersons. The point
was "some craftsmen..." etc. Most craftsmen probably don't have
secrets that they have discovered or invented and do rely primarily on
skill and practice.
> In cooking, the recipe is only sthe start of the issue. A good
>cook needs the skill to apply the recipe to the actual ingreedients
>and kitchen they find themselves confronted with.
>
>Your potter may have a secret glaze, but that is just a side issue,
>what makes a master is the skill, not the recipe.
The ability to make a living plays a role as well as the drive for
recognition for accomplishment. It's very possible that giving away
the formula for a glaze so that anyone who signs up for ceramics can
do it will cheapen the whole business.
But getting back to secret recipes... if someone doesn't want to give
out a recipe, so what? This reminds me of the thread where the
restaurant was supposed to sell the table setting to the diner if so
requested.
Sometimes people have things that are theirs and they don't need to
justify not giving it to other people. At least that's what we try to
teach toddlers and thieves.
Siobhan Perricone
wrote:
>: >And I WANT THAT GRAVY!!
>:
>Maybe the reason that they won't share the recipe is because it is something
>they bought canned from their food service and haven't the faintest idea
>what's in it.
Then I wanna BUY that gravy! So I get to spend the rest of my life pining
over a gravy that I cannot find a decent recipe to replicate, and I have
had no success replicating (I have tried and tried and tried) because they
don't wanna tell me the name of a brand? I mean, yah, they have a right to
their intellectual property but come on, you'd think someone calling them
ever couple of years to see if they'd changed their minds yet about sharing
the recipe or secret would make some sort of dent already. Their mexican
gramma isn't going to be alive forever, and that recipe is gonna get LOST
then NO one will get to enjoy it. *sulk*
Arri London
>
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:44:08 -0700, Arri London <bio...@ic.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >Everyone has the right to their 'intellectual property'.
>
> I am perfectly happy to give full credit to the creator. I just want to
> MAKE IT TOO!
>
> --
> Siobhan Perricone
>
Do what I do and try to analyse the product. Maybe I can't
duplicate it, but as long as I like the result it doesn't
matter.
There is no way to force someone to divulge a recipe.
Ladyvmh2000
<mucke...@attbi.com> writes:
>I once asked the owner-cook at a deli where I ate lunch most days for her
>recipe for Sweet and Sour Cabbage soup, and she surprised me by writing it
>out for me. (I had heard she refused to share usually) Years passed and
>she died, and more time went by and I got a call from her daughter who had
>lost the only copy of the recipe. She remembered her mother mentioning she
>had given a copy to me. I was able to supply it, which brought a little sip
>of her special brand of immortality back to her family. Don't think I would
>ever keep a recipe a secret after that story. (BTW, I won a local soup
>contest with it, giving Sadie Lieb full credit.)
>
>Linda
>
Thanks for sharing the story with us. Will you share the recipe with us too?
Thanks.
Vickie
Harry A. Demidavicius
<MYFIR...@MYLASTNAME.org.uk> wrote:
>In article <86es7us03cig8vc87...@4ax.com>, Boron Elgar (be) writes:
>
>be> there seemed over there to be an attitude more of "Harumph, I worked
>be> on perfecting this & it's MINE" or "If I give up my recipe, which only
>be> I in my wisdom am capable of preparing, this bubblehead will only
>be> screw it up & then complain to me."
>
>
>I would tend to view those two arguments through my computer nerd
>glasses: If you aren't wiling to show how clever you are, it probably
>indicates you are afraid it will show you weren't really that clever,
>and giving out the recipe will probably reduce the number of
>complaints since they won't be blindly groping around and phoning you
>up to ask wht their efforts don't work.
>
>Basicly, if secrecy is involved what is happening isn't primarilly
>cooking. It may be commerce or it may be politics or it may be
>snobbery or whatever, but cooking is firmly secondary. Craftsmen in
>any field tend to want to talk about their craft in my experience.
Cooking is a list of ingredients and technique. Why should a chef
share if they don't want to? Try and get the recipe for Gran
Marnier from the makers. This isn't glass blowing or wood
crafting dontchaknow?
Harry
Outgoing mail virus scanned
Harry A. Demidavicius
<morgan...@starband.net> wrote:
I agree with you, but, it *is* their privilege. There's a place
on Spokane [Klinkerdagger's] - very well respected - who have
everything they make, available to diners.. Just ask and the wait
staff will enclose a printed recipe with your dinner bill.
One of the best Tiramisu recipes in Calgary [we've used it
forever], was gladly released to the our newspaper by a well
known local chef. Yet others won't. Their privilege.
Janine
Mmmm. Could we have that Tiramisu recipe?
~Janine
--
What great thing would you attempt if you knew you couldn't fail?
Richard Caley
had> Cooking is a list of ingredients and technique.
And Skill.
had> Why should a chef share if they don't want to?
Didn't say they should. Said they generally would.
had> Try and get the recipe for Gran Marnier from the makers.
I also said when the primary motivation iis commerce behaviour would
be different.
had> This isn't glass blowing or wood crafting dontchaknow?
Glass blwing and woodwork are also `a list of ingreedients and
technique' and skill of course.
If you read what I posted before following up it might help.
Richard Caley
>> Indeed, and it is what patents were created for.
cs> Patents are for people who care to and can afford to go through the
cs> process and who will subsequently license their property.
Yes to the first, that is trivially true of everything. No to the
second. Patents are useful for people who don't licence, indeed
licencing can be an alerntive to patenting if the licence contains a
big enough NDA.
>> Also, I think most craftsmen would feel it was a slur if you implied
>> that their sucess depended on the kinds of things one can be secretive
>> about.
cs> We are not talking about most craftsmen, er, craftspersons.
kCooking is most definitely a craft.
cs> Most craftsmen probably don't have secrets that they have
cs> discovered or invented and do rely primarily on skill and
cs> practice.
Most cooks don't have (significant) secrets they have discoverred and
rely primarilly on skill and practice.
cs> The ability to make a living plays a role as well as the drive for
cs> recognition for accomplishment. It's very possible that giving away
cs> the formula for a glaze so that anyone who signs up for ceramics can
cs> do it will cheapen the whole business.
Indeed, as I said, when commerce becomes primary (as it must for most
when paying the rent/mortgage depends on the craft) then the rules
change.
cs> But getting back to secret recipes... if someone doesn't want to give
cs> out a recipe, so what?
So they are being mildly antisocial and I'd assume some motive outside
the kitchen is involved.
cs> Sometimes people have things that are theirs and they don't need to
cs> justify not giving it to other people. At least that's what we try to
cs> teach toddlers and thieves.
The distinguishing feature of IPR, which is what we are at heart
discussing here, is that you can give others permanent use of it
without giving it away. We (I hope) teach toddlers to share.
Boron Elgar
>I think the strategy behind secret recipes is to leave out the secret
>step or ingredient. So that the person trying to replicate Granny's
>casserole can never seem to pull off the real thing, no matter how
>hard they try. I think that this is a fairly common practice, too.
>
It is such behavior that I find incomprehensible. Though I do
reiterate that I, myself, believe in sharing, if one does take the
opposite tack, why not just refuse to give it up & let the requester
think whatever of the recipe holder...but to deliberately muck up what
is given so that it cannot be replicated...well..I think that is just
way over the edge.
This is one of the several reasons I brought the topic up...I do
realize that some things are not going to get divulged...promise,
pride, production pressures can all weigh in, but why would someone go
to all the effort and do a dirty deed?
Boron
aec
That's really funny. I just recognised my mom. "I didn't have this,
so I..." And then she often ends with "Well, it was nice, but I like
my xxx better." - So why bother, eh? Parents!
Thanks for that laugh, gloria, a giggle just in time for lunch.
Anne
Siobhan Perricone
>Siobhan Perricone wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:44:08 -0700, Arri London <bio...@ic.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >Everyone has the right to their 'intellectual property'.
>>
>> I am perfectly happy to give full credit to the creator. I just want to
>> MAKE IT TOO!
>
>Do what I do and try to analyse the product. Maybe I can't
>duplicate it, but as long as I like the result it doesn't
>matter.
Clearly you've not heard my say in other posts that I've tried to do it
many times. There is obviously some trick to it that I just don't know, and
so it's never even *close* to what I got at the restaurant.
>There is no way to force someone to divulge a recipe.
Oh for... who is trying to force anyone? I'm allowed to have my feelings,
ya know. It's extremely disappointing that I can never have this dinner
again because I can't get to Iowa and they won't share the secret. I think
they're being ridiculous about it, but it's not like I'm going to start up
some covert operation to break into the kitchen and find the recipe
somewhere (if it's even written down, which it probably isnt' because it's
in their gramma's head). Just as they are allowed to keep it secret, I'm
allowed to think they're being foolish keeping it secret.
Siobhan Perricone
wrote:
>>And I WANT THAT GRAVY!!
>
>I agree with you, but, it *is* their privilege. There's a place
>on Spokane [Klinkerdagger's] - very well respected - who have
>everything they make, available to diners.. Just ask and the wait
>staff will enclose a printed recipe with your dinner bill.
>
>One of the best Tiramisu recipes in Calgary [we've used it
>forever], was gladly released to the our newspaper by a well
>known local chef. Yet others won't. Their privilege.
Sure it is. And it's my right to be as disappointed or irked about it as I
want.
Curly Sue
Because they are weak and don't have the courage to say "I'd rather
not give out the recipe." It's easier to get people off your back by
giving them a defective recipe.
OTOH, sometimes mistakes are made. My cousin was frustrated by a
recipe of her mother's until she found out that "5 cups" in the recipe
was measured with her mother's teacup!
Muckerheide
>
>> I once asked the owner-cook at a deli where I ate lunch most days for her
>> recipe for Sweet and Sour Cabbage soup, and she surprised me by writing it
>> out for me. (I had heard she refused to share usually) Years passed and
>> she died, and more time went by and I got a call from her daughter who had
>> lost the only copy of the recipe. She remembered her mother mentioning she
>> had given a copy to me. I was able to supply it, which brought a little sip
>> of her special brand of immortality back to her family. Don't think I would
>> ever keep a recipe a secret after that story. (BTW, I won a local soup
>> contest with it, giving Sadie Lieb full credit.)
>>
>> Linda
>>
>
> Thanks for sharing the story with us. Will you share the recipe with us too?
> Thanks.
> Vickie
This recipe soothes a hangover; also wonderful if you have a head cold.
And any other time.
Enjoy!
Linda
-------
Mrs. Lieb's Cabbage Soup
Serving Size: 18 (of course you may halve it or freeze a portion)
2 pounds Pastene Ground tomatoes
1 pound Pastene Stewed tomatoes
2 gallons water
1/4 cup chicken paste base
1/4 cup beef base paste
1 1/2 tablespoons Accent® seasoning mix
1 teaspoon pepper
1 1/2 onion chopped
4 heads cabbage, sliced in 1/2"x 3" ribbons
7 beef marrow soup bones, (the bare kind) rinsed and drained
1 3 oz jar sour salt (remember this is for 18 servings)
2 - 3 Cups sugar
Combine tomatoes and chop til smooth. In a stock pot combine water, bases,
seasonings and onion. Add cabbage and tomato mixture, and bones. Cook 15
minutes. Add sour salt. Let boil 1/2 hour. Start with 2 cups sugar. Cook
1 1/2 hour more. Taste for sweetness and add more sugar if necessary,
finding the balance between sweet and sour.
Puester
>
> I think the strategy behind secret recipes is to leave out the secret
> step or ingredient. So that the person trying to replicate Granny's
> casserole can never seem to pull off the real thing, no matter how
> hard they try. I think that this is a fairly common practice, too.
>
What an awful, passive-aggressive thing to do to someone.
I'd have a lot more respect for someone who just said "No"
to a request for a recipe.
gloria p
BOB
I have done this to brother and sisters. Not anything that would make the
dish bad, just the extra special touch. When they comment on why mine is
different, I have always told them the secret ingredient. I guess it's just
a sibling thing<BG>
BOB
Sometimes it is actually BETTER without the missing item. now that hurts)<8
GaryG
and includes it in a book, a book claims originality, then making money,
that is WRONG....
I might get a concept from someone's recipe, but the outcome is always
different then the original recipe. I always add or subtract multiple items
and seek my own outcome...that's my personal nature, I like creating new
ideas or improving on old ideas:)
Due to the cost of most items today, if something is paid for, IMO being
possessive is important TO a degree. I would mind if I didn't get credit.
I created it and shared for sharing sake, not for someone to make $$$$.
Creating is personal. My thoughts on this topic are much bigger then the
recipe. I would feel bad, if I passed off your idea as mine. It's a
character thing. I'd fire someone for claiming someone else's ideas as
their own...doesn't matter the topic.
Were the graphics on your Website created by you? If so, I would expect
them to be copywrited. Then again, if not created by you, where did you
get them. I won't even share copies of software that I purchase with
friends. Many of my friends don't like or understand that either. Creating
is an art, and those that create should be compensated.
--
GaryG, from beautiful Temecula, CA.
If I am not back to you in a timely fashion,
I am either out letting the Big Dawg hunt,
or riding my Road King into a better frame:)
"M. Wetmore" <nob...@nospam.pacbell.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:d5kt7uoklqdf7k5rs...@4ax.com...
| On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:47:28 GMT, "GaryG" <gsgo...@earthlink.net>
| wrote:
|
| >I have no problem giving someone my ingredients for a recipe. Problem is
I
| >cook by feel, almost never measure. The part the really bugs me are
those
| >people seeking recipes and later including them in a book or posting as
if
| >as their own. I think you have discovered a group that fear plagiarism
| >greater then the joy had by sharing with others.
|
| The problem is, what do you define as plagiarism? If I change one
| ingredient in a recipe, is it mine? That's the reason why it is
| almost impossible to copyright a recipe.
|
| I think people need to learn to be less possessive. Why would you
| mind if someone posted your recipe (where did you get it in the first
| place?) and claimed it as their own. I have a huge graphics web site
| and people often take my graphics and claim them as their own. I also
| have a low-fat web site of recipes I have altered to be low-fat.
| People take them also and claim them as their own. I really don't
| care. I think that it is kind of flattering.
|
| Unless you stand to make money from a "secret recipe", there really is
| no reason to be so possessive about it.
GaryG
--
GaryG, from beautiful Temecula, CA.
If I am not back to you in a timely fashion,
I am either out letting the Big Dawg hunt,
or riding my Road King into a better frame:)
"Hag & Stenni" <ste...@nospambigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3c7eb897...@news.vision1mm.com...
| On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:47:28 GMT, "GaryG"
| <gsgo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
|
| That would annoy me also...Im not really possesive of my
| recipies, or the little tricks of the trade I use, but to
| take a rec verbatim and put it in a book for profit w/out
| attributing the author is well stealing I think...very
| slimey behavior...If I have had a rec for a long time, I may
| not remember exactly where it came from, but I dont claim it
| as my "OWN"...and while I may have tweaked it out of all
| recognition to the original it is still derivative of the
| original...I dont however think this applys when you take a
| general pool of knowledge and aspects from a variety of recs
| you like and combine them to create something new. That is
| your creation - for what its worth...lol...I dont really
| think there is much new under the food sun, just wonderful
| voyage of rediscovery.....YM- and opinions - MV...Hag k
|
| can the spam to reply...
|
Ladyvmh2000
<mucke...@attbi.com> writes:
>Thanks for sharing the story with us. Will you share the recipe with us too?
>> Thanks.
>> Vickie
>This recipe soothes a hangover; also wonderful if you have a head cold.
>And any other time.
>Enjoy!
>
>Linda
>-------
>
>Mrs. Lieb's Cabbage Soup
>
Thanks Linda. It sounds yummy.
Vickie
GaryG
--
GaryG, from beautiful Temecula, CA.
If I am not back to you in a timely fashion,
I am either out letting the Big Dawg hunt,
or riding my Road King into a better frame:)
"M. Wetmore" <nob...@nospam.pacbell.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:it508uchpnegpdosl...@4ax.com...
| On Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:57:26 GMT, "GaryG" <gsgo...@earthlink.net>
| wrote:
|
| >Plagiarism was the wrong word...LOL. When someone takes a recipe from
RFC
| >and includes it in a book, a book claims originality, then making money,
| >that is WRONG....
| >
| >I might get a concept from someone's recipe, but the outcome is always
| >different then the original recipe. I always add or subtract multiple
items
| >and seek my own outcome...that's my personal nature, I like creating new
| >ideas or improving on old ideas:)
| >
| >Due to the cost of most items today, if something is paid for, IMO being
| >possessive is important TO a degree. I would mind if I didn't get
credit.
| >I created it and shared for sharing sake, not for someone to make $$$$.
| >Creating is personal. My thoughts on this topic are much bigger then the
| >recipe. I would feel bad, if I passed off your idea as mine. It's a
| >character thing. I'd fire someone for claiming someone else's ideas as
| >their own...doesn't matter the topic.
| >
| >Were the graphics on your Website created by you? If so, I would expect
| >them to be copywrited. Then again, if not created by you, where did you
| >get them. I won't even share copies of software that I purchase with
| >friends. Many of my friends don't like or understand that either.
Creating
| >is an art, and those that create should be compensated.
|
| The graphics on my web site were created by me. I could "watermark"
| them to identify them as mine, but as I said in my prior post...I
| don't care if people take them and I don't care if they want to claim
| them as their own. That's their problem, not mine. I created the
| graphics to share with the internet community. Same with the recipes
| on my web site.
|
| And, as I stated before, it is almost impossible to copyright a
| recipe. All a person needs to do is to change a few ingredients and
| it becomes an entirely new recipe.
|
| It all boils down to morals, in my opinion. And each person is
| responsible for their own moral choices.
Martin Golding
> I don't believe that there is such a thing as a "unique" recipe under
> the sun. Some one, some where, some how, has surely done it before.
Everything has a first time. I've found no reference that resembles my
use of retsina in game cooking, nor anything resembling mustard pasta.
> Anybody that's that miserly with their knowlege just likes to hear
> themselves talk but doesn't want to be challenged by some one actually
> making their recipe and offering a critique that might not be favorable.
I have two kinds of recipes that I don't divulge. First, family secrets.
My mother's BBQ sauce is to die for, but it belongs to all three of the
kids, and as long as my elder brother thinks he might some day retail it,
it stays in the family. Second, bait. There are things I make that are
popular, and I use them to lure people to my parties, because otherwise
I'd have to drive all over the west to see my friends. Restaurants and
professional cooks have the same issue, with the added fillip that their
secrets have identifiable financial value. (There's the third kind, I
didn't take notes and haven't the remotest idea, but with sufficient
handwaving, I can usually explain the basic design.)
> We don't get to eat out much any more but when we did, one of my
> favorite things was to try to recreate at home something that I'd liked
> in a restaurant.
The trouble with doing that is that eventually, you run entirely out of
reasons to eat out. If you stay in, the food is better, but more work.
Martin
Siobhan Perricone
wrote:
>I have done this to brother and sisters. Not anything that would make the
>dish bad, just the extra special touch. When they comment on why mine is
>different, I have always told them the secret ingredient. I guess it's just
>a sibling thing<BG>
Jesus, talk about passive aggressive! :)
Harry A. Demidavicius
<morgan...@starband.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 23:34:15 -0700, Harry A. Demidavicius <har...@shaw.ca>
>wrote:
>
>
>>>And I WANT THAT GRAVY!!
>>
>>I agree with you, but, it *is* their privilege. There's a place
>>on Spokane [Klinkerdagger's] - very well respected - who have
>>everything they make, available to diners.. Just ask and the wait
>>staff will enclose a printed recipe with your dinner bill.
>>
>>One of the best Tiramisu recipes in Calgary [we've used it
>>forever], was gladly released to the our newspaper by a well
>>known local chef. Yet others won't. Their privilege.
>
>Sure it is. And it's my right to be as disappointed or irked about it as I
>want
.
True Dollink. But wouldn't it rip you up if they gave a recipe
for 10 gallons of it - non scalable and made with commercial
equipment that you'll never buy ....
Don't see why they should refrain from selling you some [Yes, and
I'll have extra gravy with that, garcon, About 2 litres - on the
side - s/be just about right for me .. ;0]
Siobhan Perricone
wrote:
>On Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:42:11 GMT, Siobhan Perricone
><morgan...@starband.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 23:34:15 -0700, Harry A. Demidavicius <har...@shaw.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>And I WANT THAT GRAVY!!
>>>
>>>I agree with you, but, it *is* their privilege. There's a place
>>>on Spokane [Klinkerdagger's] - very well respected - who have
>>>everything they make, available to diners.. Just ask and the wait
>>>staff will enclose a printed recipe with your dinner bill.
>>>
>>>One of the best Tiramisu recipes in Calgary [we've used it
>>>forever], was gladly released to the our newspaper by a well
>>>known local chef. Yet others won't. Their privilege.
>>
>>Sure it is. And it's my right to be as disappointed or irked about it as I
>>want
>.
>True Dollink. But wouldn't it rip you up if they gave a recipe
>for 10 gallons of it - non scalable and made with commercial
>equipment that you'll never buy ....
That wouldn't irk me. At least I'd have the ingredients and a place to
start. The thing is, there's something in this recipe that I am just not
finding, and I want the secret. :) Also, I'm talking about a very small,
family-owned restaurant in Iowa. Their kitchen isn't *that* big, and
somehow I doubt they have much by way of equipment that I don't have a
smaller, home-scale of. :)
>Don't see why they should refrain from selling you some [Yes, and
>I'll have extra gravy with that, garcon, About 2 litres - on the
>side - s/be just about right for me .. ;0]
If it were possible for me to get to the restaurant to have these
enchiladas even occasionally, I wouldn't be nearly as irked about them not
sharing the recipe, and somehow I don't think I'll be able to get them to
ship me a huge jug of the gravy. *sigh* OH well....
Arri London
>
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 06:19:41 -0800, Jill Yelverton wrote:
> > I don't believe that there is such a thing as a "unique" recipe under
> > the sun. Some one, some where, some how, has surely done it before.
>
> Everything has a first time. I've found no reference that resembles my
> use of retsina in game cooking, nor anything resembling mustard pasta.
<snip>
Have you eaten in Greece at all? Retsina goes into and onto
all sorts of dishes and has done so for a long time.
If your mustard pasta is made by adding any form of mustard
to the dough, then it certainly has been done before by
anyone who makes pasta a lot and experiments with adding
things to the dough.
Just because things aren't written down doesn't mean it
hasn't been done before.
Janine
What's the name of the restaurant and where are they?
Damsel in dis Dress
>Siobhan Perricone wrote:
>
>> If it were possible for me to get to the restaurant to have these
>> enchiladas even occasionally, I wouldn't be nearly as irked about them
>> not sharing the recipe, and somehow I don't think I'll be able to get
>> them to ship me a huge jug of the gravy. *sigh* OH well....
>
>What's the name of the restaurant and where are they?
Janine is on the case! <G>
Damsel, watching for that recipe to materialize
--
Damsel's Unofficial Web Home of RFC:
http://home.att.net/~edible-complex/
Culinary FAQs, RFC Cook-Ins, Birthdays,
Signature Dishes, Chat Channel
DALnet #rec.food.cooking
Jill Yelverton
"Martin Golding" <fog...@attbi.com> wrote in message news:TMWf8.27894
: > We don't get to eat out much any more but when we did, one of my
: > favorite things was to try to recreate at home something that I'd liked
: > in a restaurant.
:
: The trouble with doing that is that eventually, you run entirely out of
: reasons to eat out. If you stay in, the food is better, but more work.
:
: Martin
What do you say when someone asks for Mom's Great Barbecue Sauce recipe.\?
I have a million reason for wanting to eat out. One reason why I can't. My
son is autistic and it is not easy to take him to public places.
Jill
Siobhan Perricone
wrote:
>What's the name of the restaurant and where are they?
I'll be impressed if you can get the recipe. They wouldn't even give it to
my mother, and she was a friend of the family, and my parents ate there
regularly for years before they moved.
La Hacienda in Mason City, Iowa. It's the brown, beefish gravy they use on
their beef and cheese enchiladas.
Martin Golding
> What do you say when someone asks for Mom's Great Barbecue Sauce
> recipe?
The truth: that it's a family secret, and not mine to give away.
> I have a million reason for wanting to eat out. One reason why
> I can't. My son is autistic and it is not easy to take him to public
> places.
And at the same time, you have stronger reasons than most to want,
occasionally, to lay down your burden and be briefly free.
My sympathy to you, and to him.
Martin
Janine
> Janine <newsg...@comcast.netINVALID> said:
>
> >Siobhan Perricone wrote:
> >
> >> If it were possible for me to get to the restaurant to have these
> >> enchiladas even occasionally, I wouldn't be nearly as irked about them
> >> not sharing the recipe, and somehow I don't think I'll be able to get
> >> them to ship me a huge jug of the gravy. *sigh* OH well....
> >
> >What's the name of the restaurant and where are they?
>
> Janine is on the case! <G>
>
> Damsel, watching for that recipe to materialize
>
LOL. And I can see you're feeling better! Fabulous!
Janine
> On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:29:21 GMT, Janine <newsg...@comcast.netINVALID>
> wrote:
>
> >What's the name of the restaurant and where are they?
>
> I'll be impressed if you can get the recipe. They wouldn't even give it to
> my mother, and she was a friend of the family, and my parents ate there
> regularly for years before they moved.
>
> La Hacienda in Mason City, Iowa. It's the brown, beefish gravy they use on
> their beef and cheese enchiladas.
>
Oh Gosh. I didn't mean that at all. I was just wondering if it might be the
same place we stopped on the way through Iowa some years ago where we had some
great Mex, but I don't think the name of the town was Mason City.
Now that you and Damsel have handed me the torch though, maybe I'll have to
think on it. ;-) Maybe Bon Appetit would cajole it out of them. You could
try writing to them....
I guess you've already tried replicating it. Is it spicy?
Damsel in dis Dress
>Siobhan Perricone wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:29:21 GMT, Janine
<newsg...@comcast.netINVALID>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >What's the name of the restaurant and where are they?
>>
>> I'll be impressed if you can get the recipe.
>
>Oh Gosh. I didn't mean that at all.
>
>Now that you and Damsel have handed me the torch though, maybe I'll have
>to think on it. ;-) Maybe Bon Appetit would cajole it out of them. You
>could try writing to them....
Here's the link to the Bon Appetit restaurant recipe request (RSVP):
http://eat.epicurious.com/bonappetit/magnet_ata/recipes/index.ssf
Good luck!
Damsel
Siobhan Perricone
wrote:
>> I'll be impressed if you can get the recipe. They wouldn't even give it to
>> my mother, and she was a friend of the family, and my parents ate there
>> regularly for years before they moved.
>>
>> La Hacienda in Mason City, Iowa. It's the brown, beefish gravy they use on
>> their beef and cheese enchiladas.
>>
>
>Oh Gosh. I didn't mean that at all. I was just wondering if it might be the
>same place we stopped on the way through Iowa some years ago where we had some
>great Mex, but I don't think the name of the town was Mason City.
*laugh* Mason City is in North Central Iowa, about 10 miles east of
Interstate 35 (Clear Lake is the town right off the exit, Mason City is the
next city over from there).
>Now that you and Damsel have handed me the torch though, maybe I'll have to
>think on it. ;-) Maybe Bon Appetit would cajole it out of them. You could
>try writing to them....
If they manage to get it, do they let the individual who asked for it, know
they got it? or do they just expect you to be getting the magazine every
month and you'll just have to keep looking to see if they got it?
>I guess you've already tried replicating it. Is it spicy?
Yeah, I've tried, and no, it's not spicy. It's very flavourful and rich.
Nice mouth feel, which says to me that it probably has fats as a primary
ingredient. When it's been put in the fridge, it sorta gels the way a good
stock will gel. When it's warm on the enchiladas, it doesn't all run off
the tortillas, but it is sorta runny.
I've tried many combinations of beef stock and spices, and I have a feeling
that it's really a very simple recipe, there's not a *lot* of complicated
flavours going on when you eat it (not like a mole at all). But for some
reason I'm just not able to get the proportions right to replicate it.
Siobhan Perricone
<damsel...@bigfoot.communications> wrote:
>Janine <newsg...@comcast.netINVALID> said:
>
>>Siobhan Perricone wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:29:21 GMT, Janine
><newsg...@comcast.netINVALID>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >What's the name of the restaurant and where are they?
>>>
>>> I'll be impressed if you can get the recipe.
>>
>>Oh Gosh. I didn't mean that at all.
>>
>>Now that you and Damsel have handed me the torch though, maybe I'll have
>>to think on it. ;-) Maybe Bon Appetit would cajole it out of them. You
>>could try writing to them....
>
>Here's the link to the Bon Appetit restaurant recipe request (RSVP):
>http://eat.epicurious.com/bonappetit/magnet_ata/recipes/index.ssf
Well, I sent in the request. Now, would the people who have subscriptions
to bon appetit keep checking the recipe request feature of the magazine? :)
Sheryl Rosen
Damsel in dis Dress <damsel...@bigfoot.communications> wrote:
maybe if a bunch of people write, a few days apart---they can go to the
restaurant and say "But---we've gotten a dozen requests for
it...please!!!???" And then they do their little selling job on them.
Although, is Mason City a town that gets a lot of out-of-town visitors?
It makes more sense for a restaurant with the potential for tourist
trade to give up their recipes to Bon Appetit than one that doesn't.
(People try the recipe, like it, determine their food must be sublime,
next time they're in town, they make a point to stop by.)
Good luck, anyway.
--
Sheryl
--
I had to start using a spamblock.
To email, replace nospam with catmandy
Thanks
Steve Smith
>
> I think the strategy behind secret recipes is to leave out the secret
> step or ingredient. So that the person trying to replicate Granny's
> casserole can never seem to pull off the real thing, no matter how
> hard they try. I think that this is a fairly common practice, too.
>
> kudzy
Then there are the secrets that aren't. I can give a recipe to a novice
cook and know exactly where they will go wrong. I suspect that "Granny"
above might be doing the same thing.
Margarine is not a substitute for butter
Butter is not a substitute for unsalted butter
Soybean or canola oil is not a substitute for olive oil
Cheap olive oil is not a substitute for anything
Button mushrooms are not a substitute for shiitake mushrooms
Milk is not a substitute for buttermilk
Cider vinegar is not a substitute for wine vinegar
"Cooking wine" is not a substitute for wine
In general, commercial "x" is not a substitute for hommade "x"
I'm sure there are a gazillion others.
Then there are the preparation techniques. Hint -- Granny's probably
not in the living room watching TV and assuming the dinner will cook
itself. Consider a recipe for risotto. You add *boiling* broth *a
little at a time*, and don't add more until the broth that's already
there is absorbed. This is 'way too labor intensive for the average
cook. They'll dump in cold broth all at once and end up with a
perfectly good pilaf -- not a risotto.
THen there are the real "secret ingredients". Food allergies. 'nuff
said. Don't get me started.
--
Steve Smith s...@aginc.net
Agincourt Computing http://www.aginc.net
"Truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense."
Nancy Young
>
> On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:33:08 GMT, Damsel in dis Dress
> >Here's the link to the Bon Appetit restaurant recipe request (RSVP):
> >http://eat.epicurious.com/bonappetit/magnet_ata/recipes/index.ssf
>
> Well, I sent in the request. Now, would the people who have subscriptions
> to bon appetit keep checking the recipe request feature of the magazine? :)
I sure will, it's one of my favorite sections in the magazine.
nancy
Alan Ladd
>I'm allowed to have my feelings, ya
>know. It's extremely disappointing that I
>can never have this dinner again
>because I can't get to Iowa and they
>won't share the secret. I think they're
>being ridiculous about it, but it's not like
>I'm going to start up some covert
>operation to break into the kitchen and
>find the recipe somewhere (if it's even
>written down, which it probably isnt'
>because it's in their gramma's head).
>Just as they are allowed to keep it
>secret, I'm allowed to think they're being
>foolish keeping it secret.
>--
>Siobhan Perricone
You can keep on thinking that they are being foolish or ridiculous but
may I offer one other view? It is possible that they fear you will
replicate their food and then open up your own restaurant. Possible, no?
There is nothing foolish or sneaky about withholding a recipe. There are
lots of reasons why a restaurant withholds this information. One other
poster pointed out that it might come from a can. Why would anyone admit
that they use canned stuff? If indeed that is their "secret ingredient",
then I can certainly understand why they wouldn't want that to be known.
Just my two cents,
Alan
--
I love my work, I could sit and watch it all day long.
Siobhan Perricone
wrote:
>You can keep on thinking that they are being foolish or ridiculous but
>may I offer one other view? It is possible that they fear you will
>replicate their food and then open up your own restaurant. Possible, no?
I seriously doubt this. Very seriously. They knew my mom, she was a friend
of the family and a regular at the restaurant. They knew she wasn't a
restauranteur at all. And we're not the only people who have ever asked for
the recipe. They just want to keep it to themselves. As I've said, it is
their right, but it still frustrates me because I'm stuck with pining for
the food I can't ever have again (I am not returning to Iowa any time in
the foreseeable future).
Siobhan Perricone
wrote:
Neato! I have a very small magazine budget, and the only one I allow myself
is Saveur. I like more of it than I like in Bon Apetit. :)
Annie M. Benson-Lennaman
Boron Elgar wrote:
>
> There has been an ongoing discussion in another usenet group I
> frequent about refusing to give out recipes when an interested party
> inquires.
I've perfected a recipe for fudge. Or so
I've been told by anyone who tastes it. I've
made it several times and brought it into the
various jobs I've held. I've had people ask
me to marry them, or failing that, just move
in rent free and be the resident fudge maker.
Seems strange, I know, but you know how some
people get over chocolate.
It took a while for me to perfect it. I
did some experimenting. It was worth the
effort. I have no problem sharing this
recipe. I give it out to any of my co workers
that ask for it. I figure that most of them
won't really go to the effort of making it
(seems there's a sizable percentage of people
who are able to use the words "I don't like
to cook" without bursting into flames).
And if they do, they will remember where
they got it from. If they manage, somehow,
to screw it up, they've had it made correctly
at least once, so they wouldn't think the
fault was mine.
Annie <--- All hungry for fudge all of a sudden.
------
My email has been sabotaged. If you
can't figure out the fake part,
you're not supposed to write me.
Damsel in dis Dress
> I've perfected a recipe for fudge. Or so
>I've been told by anyone who tastes it.
<snip>
> It took a while for me to perfect it. I
>did some experimenting. It was worth the
>effort. I have no problem sharing this
>recipe.
<snip>
Would you consider sharing it with us? Crash loves fudge, and I'm just
learning to make it, after all these years. Might as well use the best
recipe!
Eagerly,
Carol
Beth Cole
> There has been an ongoing discussion in another usenet group I
> frequent about refusing to give out recipes when an interested party
> inquires. I was surprised that the majority opinion in the other
> group seemed to be that refusing to share recipes was perfectly
> understandable & at times really preferable.
>
A friend of mine has a cheesecake recipe that in general she does not give
out. Why? Because she's rather embarassed to admit that it is actually
the cheesecake recipe from the Philadelphia Cream Cheese box. (She asked
me if it was okay not to give it away, since anyone could easily find it.
I told her that her best option was to say something like "Oh, there's a
thousand cheesecake recipes out there. Your best bet would probably be
something like the one from the back of the cream cheese box.")
In general, I will give a recipe if asked, if I know what it was. If it
is for something that I threw together, I'll generally decline saying that
since I can't replicate it again, there is no way I can tell the requester
how!
Beth
--
"Art is either plagiarism or revolution." -Paul Guaguin
my home page: http://www.IsleOfSky.net
AOL Instant Messenger: EACole72
Ladyvmh2000
<eac...@amber.emporia.edu> writes:
>A friend of mine has a cheesecake recipe that in general she does not give
>out. Why? Because she's rather embarassed to admit that it is actually
>the cheesecake recipe from the Philadelphia Cream Cheese box. (She asked
>me if it was okay not to give it away, since anyone could easily find it.
>I told her that her best option was to say something like "Oh, there's a
>thousand cheesecake recipes out there. Your best bet would probably be
>something like the one from the back of the cream cheese box.")
>
>In general, I will give a recipe if asked, if I know what it was. If it
>is for something that I threw together, I'll generally decline saying that
>since I can't replicate it again, there is no way I can tell the requester
>how!
>
>Beth
>
Years ago (before I learned how to really cook) I had my Mother and these 2 old
lady sisters (that I had know since I was 2 and called them Grandma) over for
Christmas. I fixed a ham, au gratin potatoes, vegies, etc. The ladies just
loved the au gratin potatoes and wanted my recipe. My Mother was trying not to
laugh and I was thinking what I was going to do. I told them I would bring it
to them in a few days. A couple days later I took them several packages of
Idahoan Augratin Potatoes Mix. They were really surprised. They thought they
were great.
Vickie
Jean
<boron...@hootmail.com> wrote:
>There has been an ongoing discussion in another usenet group I
>frequent about refusing to give out recipes when an interested party
>inquires. I was surprised that the majority opinion in the other
>group seemed to be that refusing to share recipes was perfectly
>understandable & at times really preferable.
I have seen the same thing happen here. Why do they even mention
they have the recipe if they are not willing to share it with others.
Don't dangle the carrot if you are not going to share it!!!!! And
yes....I have recipes I do not share as most people do.
Puester
>
> I've perfected a recipe for fudge. Or so
> I've been told by anyone who tastes it. I've
> made it several times and brought it into the
> various jobs I've held. I've had people ask
> me to marry them, or failing that, just move
> in rent free and be the resident fudge maker.
> Seems strange, I know, but you know how some
> people get over chocolate.
> It took a while for me to perfect it. I
> did some experimenting. It was worth the
> effort. I have no problem sharing this
> recipe. I give it out to any of my co workers
> that ask for it.
>
> Annie <--- All hungry for fudge all of a sudden.
Ummm....you forgot to post it for US. I'm being very
altruistic--doing this for the other readers here since
I'm at high altitude and most candy recipes don't work
here becuae of lowered boiling point temps.
gloria p
zxcvbob
I've never eaten Mexican food in Mason City, so this is just a guess.
Here goes:
Try using dried New Mexico chiles and defatted pork stock and beef stew
meat. Lots of NewMex chiles! A little garic, fresh black pepper,
oregano, and/or maybe just a *little* cumin to adjust the seasonings.
It probably doesn't need any onion. I don't know why pork stock goes so
well in Mexican beef dishes, but it does and I make it and freeze it
just for that purpose. Thicken with a little light-colored roux, but it
won't need much roux because the chiles will thicken it. HTH :-)
bob
Arri London
We are at high altitude and most fudge recipes work for us
(2000 metres/roughly 6000 feet). What it takes is longer
cooking to drive off the water. However, we have to
experiment for each recipe.
Steve Smith
>
> Boron Elgar wrote:
>
> > There has been an ongoing discussion in another usenet group I
> > frequent about refusing to give out recipes when an interested party
> > inquires. I was surprised that the majority opinion in the other
> > group seemed to be that refusing to share recipes was perfectly
> > understandable & at times really preferable.
> >
>
> A friend of mine has a cheesecake recipe that in general she does not give
> out. Why? Because she's rather embarassed to admit that it is actually
> the cheesecake recipe from the Philadelphia Cream Cheese box. (She asked
> me if it was okay not to give it away, since anyone could easily find it.
> I told her that her best option was to say something like "Oh, there's a
> thousand cheesecake recipes out there. Your best bet would probably be
> something like the one from the back of the cream cheese box.")
<chuckle>
A friend of mine worked in a Japanese restaurant that had, near as I can
tell, the world's best tempura. The cook refused to give out the recipe
for the batter because people thought they were being insulted. The
recipe? "Aunt Jemima Buttermilk Pancake Mix".
The secret to tempura is not in the batter anyway. It's in having the
oil at exactly the right temperature.
The recipe for tonkatsu, on the other hand ....
Steve Calvin
>
> Beth Cole wrote:
> >
> > Boron Elgar wrote:
> >
> > > There has been an ongoing discussion in another usenet group I
> > > frequent about refusing to give out recipes when an interested party
> > > inquires. I was surprised that the majority opinion in the other
> > > group seemed to be that refusing to share recipes was perfectly
> > > understandable & at times really preferable.
Unless you're a professional and make a living off of your recipes, I
think that it's rather cheesy ;-) not to give them out. What's it gonna
hurt? One of my friends in college made an "old family recipe" for
tomato wine ( I know, but the stuff was great, and I usually don't like
wine) and refused to give it out. Never did understand that.
--
Steve
BOB
"Steve Calvin" <cal...@vnet.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:3C875E66...@vnet.ibm.com...
Maybe you don't *want* to know some of the secret ingredients?
BOB
Steve Calvin
If I could make that stuff, I really wouldn't much care, 'cept if there
was something like.... oh well.. I'd better not go there
--
Steve
Gabby
> think that it's rather cheesy ;-) not to give them out. What's it gonna
> hurt? One of my friends in college made an "old family recipe" for
> tomato wine ( I know, but the stuff was great, and I usually don't like
> wine) and refused to give it out. Never did understand that.
>
I have a cousin who absolutely refuses to give out her recipes. At first it
really ticked me off but then when she explained why, it made sense to me,
though it didn't make me feel any better about not getting her rhubarb cake
recipe.
Her explanation: "I serve certain dishes that people really love. If I
give out my recipes to everyone who wants them and they make the same food,
then when they come over and I serve these dishes there is nothing special
about it."
When I think about going to her place for meals, certain dishes immediately
spring to mind, so I guess she has a point.
Gabby
Puester
>
> > >
> > > Unless you're a professional and make a living off of your recipes, I
> > > think that it's rather cheesy ;-) not to give them out. What's it gonna
> > > hurt? One of my friends in college made an "old family recipe" for
> > > tomato wine ( I know, but the stuff was great, and I usually don't like
> > > wine) and refused to give it out. Never did understand that.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Steve
> >
> > Maybe you don't *want* to know some of the secret ingredients?
> > BOB
>
> If I could make that stuff, I really wouldn't much care, 'cept if there
> was something like.... oh well.. I'd better not go there
> --
Steve:
I have the recipe for tomato wine--it was very big in the 60's to
serve it to people and make them guess what they were drinking.
After it aged a year or two it was very smooth, like a medium
sherry. Let me know if you still want it.
gloria p
The Hackett Family
recipe for the tomato wine? I'd love to try it. Pretty please?
--
Cyndi
"Puester" <pue...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3C88068D...@worldnet.att.net...
Leila A
That mostly doesn't hold water for me, because there's hardly anybody I
visit for dinner often enough - how many people really and truly
entertain you that often. In practice with dishes I like, I only make
them occasionally because there's always a new recipe to try, and the
rotation of my guests means there are few repeats.
Except, of course, for tabbouli. (Sorry Jill McQ) Now my father always
shares his Lebanese food recipes, has done so for 35 years or more.
People love getting them. Some people actually use them. They never seem
to mind eating my father's LEbanese food, anyway.
There is one person for whom this recipe fatigue did happen - my SIL
Debbie, now in San Diego, (clanmacleod to RFC) told me that she cooked
my aunt Amal's baked kafta in a tray recipe so often that her kids got
sick of it. Fine. I'll remember not to make it when they eat at my house
next (and that happens far too rarely - Debbie, are you listening?)
Meanwhile I am absolutely thrilled that she liked the recipe and served
it to her family.
Leila
>
> Gabby
Steve Calvin
<snip>
>
> I have the recipe for tomato wine--it was very big in the 60's to
> serve it to people and make them guess what they were drinking.
> After it aged a year or two it was very smooth, like a medium
> sherry. Let me know if you still want it.
>
> gloria p
[answered via mail before getting to the group]
Thanks again gloria!
--
Steve
Puester
>
> Oh Gloria.... ahem, pardon my eavesdropping... but could I please have your
> recipe for the tomato wine? I'd love to try it. Pretty please?
>
I believe I have posted it here before, but here goes (a pox on
non-sharers!):
My friend Delana's Tomato Wine
6 lb. sugar
6 lb. tomatoes, washed and chopped
1 lb. raisins
6 oranges, washed and cut up (skins included)
1 gal. boiling water
1 pkg. yeast
In a very clean crock or food-safe new plastic bucket, mix
together the first 5 ingredients. When the mixture has cooled
to lukewarm, add yeast and stir well. Cover loosely and
stir well daily for 15-20 days or until fermentation stops.
Strain, filter (coffee filters work well), and bottle.
This keeps forever and gets smoother as it ages.
I suspect you could use any juicy fruit to replace the tomatoes.
I'll never forget the grapefruit wine my husband's grandfather
used to make from the trees in their yard when they retired to
Florida. It was wonderful.
gloria p
Debbie MacLeod
I made kafta again recently and the kids scarfed it down. Nine-year-old
Stuart exclaimed, "Aunt Leila used to make this!" even though you only
served it to them once, and I served it once too often. :)
For me, there is something more special about being a guest at someone's
table than any "secret recipe" or "signature dish" the host might make. As
a cook, hostess and teacher, I am delighted when a guest asks for a
recipe. I hope they make it often and think kind thoughts about me when
they do.
Cheers,
Debbie (who'll be up in the Bay Area in early April and would be delighted
to eat kafta or anything else Aunt Leila wants to cook!)
--
Please remove the "clan" to reply
The Hackett Family
--
Cyndi
"Puester" <pue...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3C88E4B3...@worldnet.att.net...
MH
Damsel in dis Dress <damsel...@bigfoot.communications> wrote in message
news:khu58us2uapk2ejis...@4ax.com...
> "Annie M. Benson-Lennaman" <annie...@yahoo.com> said:
>
> > I've perfected a recipe for fudge. Or so
> >I've been told by anyone who tastes it.
> <snip>
> > It took a while for me to perfect it. I
> >did some experimenting. It was worth the
> >effort. I have no problem sharing this
> >recipe.
> <snip>
>
> Would you consider sharing it with us? Crash loves fudge, and I'm just
> learning to make it, after all these years. Might as well use the best
> recipe!
>
> Eagerly,
> Carol
This is the fudge I always make:
OLD-FASHIONED FUDGE
The nuts are optional. I actually like it better without nuts, because it is
so smooth, so rich that it melts in your mouth.
2 cups sugar
¾ cup milk
2 squares unsweetened chocolate, cut up
1 teaspoon light corn syrup
2 teaspoons butter
1 teaspoon vanilla
½ cup chopped nuts (optional)
Line a 9 x 9 inch cake pan with foil, expending foil over the edges. Butter
or grease the pan.
Butter or grease the sides of a heavy 2-quart saucepan. In saucepan add
milk, sugar, chocolate and corn syrup. Cook and stir over low to low-medium
heat until it's boiling. Clip a candy thermometer to the side of the
saucepan. Cook until thermometer reads 234 degrees, about 25 minutes.
Remove pan from heat. Add butter and vanilla, but DO NOT STIR. Cool without
stirring for about 55 minutes, until thermometer reads 110 degrees.
Remove thermometer from saucepan. Beat mixture with a wooden spoon until
fudge thickens. Add nuts, if desired. Continue beating until fudge looses
its gloss, which will be about 10 minutes.
Immediately spread fudge into pan. Allow to cool for about 10 to 15 minutes.
When set, but not cooled, cut into pieces. If the knife cannot cut through,
wait a few minutes and try again. This is very rich and don't makes squares
very large. A little fudge goes a long way.
Makes about 32 squares.
Sorry, I consider this the best fudge recipe! : )
Martha
Ladyvmh2000
<bast...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>This is the fudge I always make:
>
>OLD-FASHIONED FUDGE
>
This really sounds good Martha. I think it may be like the fudge we used to
make when I was a kid. (back in the Stone Age). Thanks for posting it.
Vickie
zxcvbob
Gardens Cookbook?
best regards,
bob
MH
zxcvbob <b...@a51web.net> wrote in message
news:3C8AE872...@a51web.net...
> This looks like the same fudge recipe that I use. Better Homes and
> Gardens Cookbook?
>
> best regards,
> bob
>
>
Sheryl Rosen
"MH" <bast...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
One of my favorites, too!
--
Sheryl
--
I had to start using a spamblock.
To email, replace nospam with catmandy
Thanks
Annie M. Benson-Lennaman
Puester wrote:
>
> "Annie M. Benson-Lennaman" wrote:
<snip = my boasting about my perfect fudge recipe>
>
> Ummm....you forgot to post it for US. I'm being very
> altruistic--doing this for the other readers here since
> I'm at high altitude and most candy recipes don't work
> here becuae of lowered boiling point temps.
>
> gloria p
You do sound altruistic Gloria, but in this case you can benefit as well.
There is no cooking involved, unless you count melting chocolate chips as
"cooking".
Annie's Fudge
3 12oz Bags Semi-Sweet Chocolate Chips
8 oz Semi-Sweet Baking Chocolate Squares
1 14oz Can Sweetened Condensed Milk
2 7oz Jars Jet-Puffed Marshmallow Crème
2 teaspoons Vanilla extract
3/4th teaspoon Salt
2-3 Cups Chopped Nuts, Toasted
Or
1 12 bag Peanut Butter chips
Put first 3 ingredients in a large, microwave usable bowl or into a double
boiler. Melt. When done, the mixture should be hot, but not burning, to
touch. Add next 3 ingredients. Mix well. Chocolate will seize (appear
granular in texture), but don't worry about it. If using nuts, it is important
to toast them either in the oven or in a skillet oven-top until fragrant. Add
to mixture and stir. If using Peanut Butter chips, don't stir them until
complete melt. Just mix till they are more or less evenly distributed, and wait
a moment or two for them to melt Line a large baking dish with plastic
wrap. Put the fudge into the dish. If using PB chips, they should appear as
streaks throughout the mixture. Pat the fudge smooth by placing another piece
of plastic wrap on top and pressing with your hands. If a lot of oil seeps to
the surface, remove plastic from top and blot the fudge with paper towels.
Recover if necessary, and chill until semi-hard. Unmold from pan and cut into
serving pieces, an inch or two across each. Put into whatever bowl you plan on
serving from, cover with wrap, and chill until hard.
Makes, well, a lot. Freezes well.