Bratwurst
Nona Myers
of US, I bought more than I should have. So far I must be doing
something wrong preparing this. I thought it was cooked same as
regular hotdogs (ie steaming), but it really doesn't take all
that good. What is the preferred way of serving brats? Do I
grill instead? Any recipes appreciated for this sausage-
impaired person.
--
Nona Myers
(another hapa & foodie, email at)
nonaatbestdotcom
Gargoylle
>After reading that bratwurst is a favorite sausage in some parts
>of US, I bought more than I should have. So far I must be doing
>something wrong preparing this. I thought it was cooked same as
>regular hotdogs (ie steaming), but it really doesn't take all
>that good. What is the preferred way of serving brats? Do I
>grill instead? Any recipes appreciated for this sausage-
>impaired person.
You gotta grill them. I've never had one steamed, but It sounds
horrible. Some are sold precooked and don't need to be grilled as
long. The package or the butcher will tell you. I like mine charred.
After grilling, load up a french roll with onions and dejon mustard.
Or Kraut if you like it.
Gar
Brad Boes
We love brats soaked in beer for a couple of hours then grilled- chopped
onions and stone ground mustard make a great, great sandwich!
Brad
"Nona Myers" <no...@mikan.com> wrote in message
news:t5ulos4ke56mc1nbn...@4ax.com...
> After reading that bratwurst is a favorite sausage in some parts
> of US, I bought more than I should have. So far I must be doing
> something wrong preparing this. I thought it was cooked same as
> regular hotdogs (ie steaming), but it really doesn't take all
> that good. What is the preferred way of serving brats? Do I
> grill instead? Any recipes appreciated for this sausage-
> impaired person.
Vivienne Welchner
My mother in law cooks them with sauerkraut and big dumplings. She only
buys those with garlic and paprika. When my father in law was still
alive, they used to make their own.
Vivienne
Jack Schidt
Nona Myers <no...@mikan.com> wrote in message
news:t5ulos4ke56mc1nbn...@4ax.com...
> After reading that bratwurst is a favorite sausage in some
parts
> of US, I bought more than I should have. So far I must be
doing
> something wrong preparing this. I thought it was cooked
same as
> regular hotdogs (ie steaming), but it really doesn't take
all
> that good. What is the preferred way of serving brats? Do
I
> grill instead? Any recipes appreciated for this sausage-
> impaired person.
> --
> Nona Myers
> (another hapa & foodie, email at)
> nonaatbestdotcom
Grilling is my preferred method, but they can be fried also
(German brat = fried; wurst = sausage). My grandmother
would fry them and prior to the frying she'd boil them for a
couple of minutes. She said it made the casing better so
that the wursts were consistently golden brown all around.
That being said, the best way I can think of is to grill
them over low heat so that the casings don't burst, turning
them often. Serve on a good roll with onion, sauerkraut and
hot mustard. Of course, a cold beer completes the picture.
enjoy
SportKite1
GRILLED! Served on a soft lightly toasted sesame roll with stone ground
mustard, pickled onions or kraut. YUMMY!
Ellen
notbob
Gargoylle wrote:
>
> On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 17:17:39 GMT, Nona Myers <no...@mikan.com> wrote:
>
> >After reading that bratwurst is a favorite sausage in some parts
> >of US, I bought more than I should have. So far I must be doing
> >something wrong preparing this. I thought it was cooked same as
> >regular hotdogs (ie steaming), but it really doesn't take all
> >that good. What is the preferred way of serving brats? Do I
> >grill instead? Any recipes appreciated for this sausage-
> >impaired person.
> You gotta grill them. I've never had one steamed, but It sounds
> horrible. Some are sold precooked and don't need to be grilled as
> long. The package or the butcher will tell you. I like mine charred.
> After grilling, load up a french roll with onions and dejon mustard.
> Or Kraut if you like it.
>
> Gar
I don't think it's the cooking method, it's the brats. Call me crazy,
or just wurst impaired, but I've never thought much of them. I think
they're all kinda bland. I kept thinking maybe it was the brand, but
no, every one I've ever tasted has been lacking in flavor. The fact
wursts should be served with a good, spicy mustard is no accident, IMO.
I'm not one to knock wursts, they're just no my thing.
nb
Gargoylle
Actually they are very tasty. I might get bashed for this, but I
prefer "Johnsonville" brand to butcher store stuff. If you put a hot
dog on a bun without toppings it would be pretty boring also. Maybe
your overcooking them? Neither one is my favorite though. I like fresh
Italian garlic sausage. I get it in a 3-4 foot piece. If you don't use
it quickly, it will over power the fridge it has so much garlic in it.
I cut pieces and grill it on one side of the grill and put a cast iron
pan on the other side, and fry banana peppers in olive oil. I serve
it with a small side of home made spaghetti. It's a spice lovers
delight.
Gar
Jack Schidt
notbob <not...@NOThome.com> wrote in message
news:398B068C...@NOThome.com...
> I'm not one to knock wursts, they're just no my thing.
>
> nb
this is poetry! it sings!
Jack Longfellow
JAFischer
problem is finding brats that taste like authentic german brats.
Johnsonville is good, but not as brats. I was born and raised in PA Dutch
country, and Johnsonville is what I relate to breakfast sausage. (Yes, even
though they're extremely large for breakfast sausage). That's just the way
we ate when we we're growing up. Now, a German brat should be mostly pale
with speckles of spices inside. I've found some that are almost totally
white, which don't quite taste the same...but almost. When I was stationed
in CA they had a German Deli & Butcher Shoppe I used to go to in Modesto.
They had some awesome brats. Unfortunately, the place burnt down and the
family decided not to rebuild. I'm also looking for some mettwurst. Never
have been able to find them yet here in the states. They're smoked
bratwurst.
At least I learned a few things while over there....can give you a recipe
for an awesome cordon bleu, kartoffelsalat (potato salad), spiesse braten
(we have no equivalent that I know of but it's basically roast pork with all
kinds of good stuffings made on a rotisserie), and hanchen (rotisserie
chicken). Please forgive the spelling errors, it's been quite awhile now.
One thing I was always surprised about: with all the gooooood food, beer,
and wine, I'm surprised I didn't come back from there considerably heavier
than when I got there. But, I didn't and I loved every minute of it.
German cuisine is my all-time favorite even today. But like I said, I'm
from PA Dutch country, so that doesn't surprise me. Guten Essen!
"Nona Myers" <no...@mikan.com> wrote in message
news:t5ulos4ke56mc1nbn...@4ax.com...
> After reading that bratwurst is a favorite sausage in some parts
> of US, I bought more than I should have. So far I must be doing
> something wrong preparing this. I thought it was cooked same as
> regular hotdogs (ie steaming), but it really doesn't take all
> that good. What is the preferred way of serving brats? Do I
> grill instead? Any recipes appreciated for this sausage-
> impaired person.
PENMART10
writes:
>My mother in law cooks them with sauerkraut and big dumplings. She only
>buys those with garlic and paprika.
>
>When my father in law was still alive, they used to make their own.
Of course you thought, to archieve the recipe... just in case perchance an
unforsen event presented itself where you would be called upon to share your
family jewels.
Sheldon
````````````
On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line:
"I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."
Vivienne Welchner
Sheldon said:
> Of course you thought, to archieve the recipe... just in case perchance an
> unforsen event presented itself where you would be called upon to share your
> family jewels.
If anyone wants it, I'll be glad to ask my mother in law for it. She
does live with us and it wouldn't be hard to get. Basically it's
sauerkraut, cabbage and bratwurst cooked together and dumplings added at
the end.
Vivienne
Dodis
step-father was stationed in Germany too many years ago, and my mom and I have
been trying to get some good recipes for many of the dishes he speaks so highly
of. I have developed a taste for good German food, from my exposures with my
home-brew club by meeting at a local bar/German restaurant. One other you didn't
list would be a recipe for Broachen (sp?). He says it was a type of bread roll,
tough crust, but very tasty/soft inside.
Mike
Gargoylle
Now that I know your mother in law lives with you I can understand the
stress you must be under. This makes things clearer. My heritage is
very German and "thuringer"<sp?> is more widely used than brats in
that recipe. I always hated it. We got it at least once a month. YUCK.
Vivienne Welchner
Gargoylle wrote:
> Now that I know your mother in law lives with you I can understand the
> stress you must be under.
I feel privileged to have her live with us.
Vivienne
AChrist787
onions and chopped green chile. Roll like a burrito and enjoy.
Anne
AAC/AFBV62.0844.TX
It's only with the heart that one can see clearly. What is essential is
invisible to the eye. The Little Prince
PENMART10
>>Of course you thought, to archieve the recipe... just in case perchance an
>>unforsen event presented itself where you would be called upon to share
>>your family jewels.
Vivienne Welsher <wel...@home.com> WEASELS:
>If anyone wants it, I'll be glad to ask my mother in law for it. She
>does live with us and it wouldn't be hard to get. Basically it's
>sauerkraut, cabbage and bratwurst cooked together and dumplings added at
>the end.
No, no, no, no... you friggin' smarmy rodent, don't you play word games with
me. You said an old family bratwurst recipe for *making* bratwurst. No one
needs another fercocktah non-descript recipe for cooking brats and kraut...
it's blatantly obvious why you disengaged your reply to my request from the
context of the thread, you think you're slick... you know nothing about
bratwurst because you're a phony baloney.
Gar got it right, she's twisted, and she twists... a typical welsher, Vivienne
is scum. Vivienne can't cook anything; to date all she's demonstrated she knows
is how to abuse children, lie and weasel.
weasel [2] (verb intransitive) wea*seled; wea*sel*ing
[weasel word]
First appeared 1900
1 : to use weasel words : EQUIVOCATE
2 : to escape from or evade a situation or obligation
---
PENMART10
writes:
>Gargoylle wrote:
Of course, granny pays the bills! Ahahahahahahaha. . . .
Vivienne Welchner
PENMART10 wrote:
> No, no, no, no... you friggin' smarmy rodent, don't you play word games with
> me. You said an old family bratwurst recipe for *making* bratwurst.
Sorry - she doesn't know and my father in law died.
<Snipped name calling.>
> Vivienne can't cook anything;
This is true and a lot of the people on this list have been *very*
helpful while I learn - including you.
Vivienne
Donna Pattee
Gargoylle <garg...@postmaster.co.uk> wrote:
>On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 17:17:39 GMT, Nona Myers <no...@mikan.com> wrote:
>
>>of US, I bought more than I should have. So far I must be doing
>>something wrong preparing this. I thought it was cooked same as
>>regular hotdogs (ie steaming), but it really doesn't take all
>>that good. What is the preferred way of serving brats? Do I
>>grill instead? Any recipes appreciated for this sausage-
>>impaired person.
>horrible. Some are sold precooked and don't need to be grilled as
>long. The package or the butcher will tell you. I like mine charred.
>After grilling, load up a french roll with onions and dejon mustard.
>Or Kraut if you like it.
>
>Gar
I simmer them in beer until they are almost done and then finish by browning
on the grill over charcoal. Then load on the sauted onions, sauerkraut and
mustard.
PENMART10
>penmart10 writes:
>>You said an old family bratwurst recipe for *making* bratwurst.
>she doesn't know and my father in law died.
You must've aggrivated the poor old geezer to death... but at least he no
longer needs to tolerate you... so I'm sure he's finally enjoying some peace.
Gargoylle
>In article <398B2B6B...@home.com>, Vivienne Welchner <welc...@home.com>
>writes:
>
>>Gargoylle wrote:
>>
>>> Now that I know your mother in law lives with you I can understand the
>>> stress you must be under.
>>
>>I feel privileged to have her live with us.
>
>Of course, granny pays the bills! Ahahahahahahaha. . . .
>
Granny must cook too. Viv prolly couldn't do kraft mac'n'cheese.
Jim Small
Bratwurst festivals used to turn out brats that were about half fat. The
only way to cook them was grilling where the skin would rupture and a flame
would shoot out over the grill. When brats started getting popular and
health concerns started surfacing the fat content was greatly reduced and
thus the flavor diminished. Now most people I know will boil them in beer
first then grill. But there is nothing like the old German fireworks when
another load of grease hit the charcoal.>
Vivienne Welchner
PENMART10 wrote:
>
> In article <398B2B6B...@home.com>, Vivienne Welchner <welc...@home.com>
> writes:
>
> >Gargoylle wrote:
> >
> >> Now that I know your mother in law lives with you I can understand the
> >> stress you must be under.
> >
> >I feel privileged to have her live with us.
>
> Of course, granny pays the bills! Ahahahahahahaha. . . .
My mother in law also thought this post hilarious. We laughed quite a
bit. Ahahahahahahaha. . . .
Vivienne
Vivienne Welchner
PENMART10 wrote:
>
> You must've aggrivated the poor old geezer to death... but at least he no
> longer needs to tolerate you... so I'm sure he's finally enjoying some peace.
My mother in law thought this post also was very funny.
Vivienne
Vivienne Welchner
Gargoylle wrote:
>
> Granny must cook too. Viv prolly couldn't do kraft mac'n'cheese.
If it's not important to the person concerned, why is it so important to
you that someone know how to "do" kraft mac'n'cheese? Why is it
important to you that they don't know how to cook? What difference does
it make to *your* life that you feel it is so important to make fun of
them and try to humiliate them? Is it just because they are not like you
or is there another reason?
Vivienne
Melba's Jammin'
<no...@mikan.com> wrote:
>After reading that bratwurst is a favorite sausage in some parts
>of US, I bought more than I should have. So far I must be doing
>something wrong preparing this. I thought it was cooked same as
>regular hotdogs (ie steaming), but it really doesn't take all
>that good. What is the preferred way of serving brats? Do I
>grill instead? Any recipes appreciated for this sausage-
>impaired person.
>--
>Nona Myers
>(another hapa & foodie, email at)
>nonaatbestdotcom
If they're fresh brats, they need to be cooked through; if cooked, just
reheated. I usually simmer them in water to cover for about 10-15
minutes, drain, then grill until brown.
--
-Barb, rec.food.cooking Preserved Fruit Administrator
We be jammin' -- Blackberry jam is done, jelly on the horizon; basil and mint jellies complete; plum jelly next week if I thaw the juice. Oh, my....watermelon pickles if I find a decent melon. (Haven't yet!) Dried cherry chutney? Mmm-maybe. Tomato juice? Not for a while.
cnm
touch with Usinger's in Milwaukee, WI. Their phone number is (414)
276-9100. They probably have a web site, too. I never looked. They make
the brats, mettwurst, blood sausage, etc., it's very good, and they do ship.
cnm in wisconsin
"JAFischer" <fish...@lvcm.com> wrote in message
news:som4r2...@corp.supernews.com...
PENMART10
writes:
>Hi
Hiya, Slick!
Could it perhaps be possible that Gar is alluding to
the fact that this Newsgroup is basically about Cooking
and NOT <alt.child.rearing-abuse> exclusively. <hint-hint>
http://www.behindthename.com/v.html#vivian
BIBIANA
Also known as
Viviana; Vivian
Memorial
2 December; confined to Bibiana's Basilica in Rome since 1969
Profile
Virgin. Martyr. Her parents were martyred and Vivian was turned over to a woman
who tried to force her into prostitution. Upon her continued refusal, Vivian
was imprisoned in a mad house, then flogged to death. Church built over her
grave, in the garden of which grew an herb that cured headache and epilepsy.
Died c.361 by scourging
-----------------------------------
Vivienne Welchner
PENMART10 wrote:
>
> Could it perhaps be possible that Gar is alluding to
> the fact that this Newsgroup is basically about Cooking
> and NOT <alt.child.rearing-abuse> exclusively. <hint-hint>
I've no idea if that is what he is alluding to. He doesn't have to
*allude* to anything, though. It would be clear enough if he just said
that this group is not about child rearing etc. and therefore did not
wish to disuss it. He doesn't have to ridicule my cooking abilities. The
hint was too subtle for me.
Sheldon, I did not start the child rearing thread. All my posts were
responses to others - some of them quite mean and disrespectful to
children. I felt I had to defend those who could not defend themselves.
Of course this is a cooking group and I agree that the posts should be
'cooking related'. I realize that if someone wanted to explore theories
about children, they would not do it in this group. I have no desire to
continue especially since I also have nothing to add to what I've said
before. People either agreed or disagreed - no meaningful dialogue has
taken place. Next time anyone says awful things about children I shall
try to remember this thread and bite my tongue.
Vivienne
S.Dunlap
cnm <c...@dotnet.com> wrote in message
news:apLi5.484$Zo5.1...@homer.alpha.net...
> If you'd like some good sausage, like you said you had in Germany, get in
> touch with Usinger's in Milwaukee, WI. Their phone number is (414)
> 276-9100. They probably have a web site, too. I never looked. They make
> the brats, mettwurst, blood sausage, etc., it's very good, and they do
ship.
>
> cnm in wisconsin
Oh..their stuff is great. I used to get it in the German style deli's in FL.
I love their mettwurst and their braunschweigers.
Sandi
Victor Sack
> After reading that bratwurst is a favorite sausage in some parts
> of US, I bought more than I should have. So far I must be doing
> something wrong preparing this. I thought it was cooked same as
> regular hotdogs (ie steaming), but it really doesn't take all
> that good. What is the preferred way of serving brats? Do I
> grill instead? Any recipes appreciated for this sausage-
> impaired person.
Here is something similar to what I've posted about 6 months ago.
Don't know if American ones are different, but in Germany, Bratwürste
are generally raw (pre-cooked ones can be found in supermarkets, but
butchers rarely sell them). There are a few deluded souls who insist on
boiling them in some kind of liquid before grilling or frying them, but
such depravity has no place in a civilised society. It is comparable to
boiling a steak. I would just grill or pan-fry the sausages slowly over
low to medium heat, turning them and checking that they don't get burned
(too much). Serve with mustard and a good Brötchen (bread roll), as
well as with good beer of the Düsseldorfer Altbier or, failing that,
pilsener type.
Victor
Jack Schidt
Vivienne Welchner <welc...@home.com> wrote in message
news:398B48EB...@home.com...
> Hi Sheldon
>
> PENMART10 wrote:
> >
> > In article <398B2B6B...@home.com>, Vivienne
Welchner <welc...@home.com>
> > writes:
> >
> > >Gargoylle wrote:
> > >
> > >> Now that I know your mother in law lives with you I
can understand the
> > >> stress you must be under.
> > >
> > >I feel privileged to have her live with us.
> >
> > Of course, granny pays the bills! Ahahahahahahaha. . .
.
>
> My mother in law also thought this post hilarious. We
laughed quite a
> bit. Ahahahahahahaha. . . .
>
> Vivienne
Wow! an old time flame war. Hang in there, Viv.
and shel? pick on someone yer own size. Ahahahahahahaha
Jack Gas
Jack Schidt
cnm <c...@dotnet.com> wrote in message
news:apLi5.484$Zo5.1...@homer.alpha.net...
> If you'd like some good sausage, like you said you had in
Germany, get in
> touch with Usinger's in Milwaukee, WI. Their phone number
is (414)
> 276-9100. They probably have a web site, too. I never
looked. They make
> the brats, mettwurst, blood sausage, etc., it's very good,
and they do ship.
>
http://www.karlehmer.com/ if you want good brats. Usinger's
is a midwestern knockoff of a good sausage maker. Not even
close!
Jack Wurst
Jack Schidt
Victor Sack <sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de> wrote in message
news:1eew0lq.ifvlvv7i3l4wN%sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de...
Quite simply, you are wrong about this. It relaxes the
casing resulting in a better frying and doesn't affect the
taste.
Grilling is still the best way to go.
Nona Myers
getting sick. I ordered them online from Wisconsin too thinking
what a great treat for friends who enjoy watching baseball game
on TV! Ohh, they were very kind....
This brings another question though. Why do they need to be
boiled first, either with water or beer?
S.Dunlap
store when we lived in NY....and it is the BEST. My mom grew up in
Ridgewood. We only started buying Usingers when we moved from NY and pre
internet (for us anyway) so we had to make due with what was available. I
suppose I will have to damage the old Mastercard now that I've got access
to Ehmer's again.
--
S.Dunlap
Chris Maxfield
"Jack Schidt" <jack....@nospam.att.net> wrote:
>
> Nona Myers <no...@mikan.com> wrote in message
> news:t5ulos4ke56mc1nbn...@4ax.com...
> parts
> > of US, I bought more than I should have. So far I must be
> doing
> > something wrong preparing this. I thought it was cooked
> same as
> > regular hotdogs (ie steaming), but it really doesn't take
> all
> > that good. What is the preferred way of serving brats? Do
> I
> > grill instead? Any recipes appreciated for this sausage-
> > impaired person.
> > Nona Myers
> > (another hapa & foodie, email at)
> > nonaatbestdotcom
>
> (German brat = fried; wurst = sausage). My grandmother
> would fry them and prior to the frying she'd boil them for a
> couple of minutes. She said it made the casing better so
> that the wursts were consistently golden brown all around.
>
> That being said, the best way I can think of is to grill
> them over low heat so that the casings don't burst, turning
> them often. Serve on a good roll with onion, sauerkraut and
> hot mustard. Of course, a cold beer completes the picture.
>
> enjoy
>
>
The main reason (to my mind at least) for boiling the sausages in beer
or water before frying or grilling (besides the added flavor that beer
can provide) is so you make certain that the meat is cook
thoroughly...just frying or grilling can cause the outside to become
burnt beyond recognition while still leaving a core of raw meat in the
center of the sausage.
--
Chris Maxfield aka ZappaLVR
Kill Ugly Sig Files!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Nona Myers
(Victor Sack) wrote:
Good info snipped.
Serve with mustard and a good Br?tchen (bread roll), as
>well as with good beer of the D?sseldorfer Altbier or, failing that,
>pilsener type.
>
What type of bread roll is this? Hard and chewy type or soft?
Also, what type of mustard is usually used?
In the past, I used to really like dark and amber ale, but
lately I find it too filling with some food. Lately, I really
like Spaten; it seems to really go well with many foods,
including Japanese and Chinese foods. I still like Guinesses
with certain foods though.
Gargoylle
>Hi
>
>Gargoylle wrote:
>>
>> Granny must cook too. Viv prolly couldn't do kraft mac'n'cheese.
>
>If it's not important to the person concerned, why is it so important to
>you that someone know how to "do" kraft mac'n'cheese?
It's not important, your just pissed someone interrupted your
silliness with something about food.
> Why is it important to you that they don't know how to cook?
Hummmm....I can't seem to find where I said that.
> What difference does it make to *your* life that you feel it is so important
> to make fun of them and try to humiliate them?
I wasn't trying. You do a fine job all on your own.
>Is it just because they are not like you or is there another reason?
Off topic
>Vivienne
Vivienne Welchner
> >Gargoylle wrote:
> >>
> >> Granny must cook too. Viv prolly couldn't do kraft mac'n'cheese.
> >
> >If it's not important to the person concerned, why is it so important to
> >you that someone know how to "do" kraft mac'n'cheese?
> It's not important, your just pissed someone interrupted your
> silliness with something about food.
Don't understand. What does it mean when you said "Viv prolly couldn't
do kraft mac'n'cheese." This was something about food or was it an
insult?
>
> > Why is it important to you that they don't know how to cook?
> Hummmm....I can't seem to find where I said that.
Saying that I can't do kraft mac'n' cheese sounds like you're implying
that I do not know how to cook. Was there another meaning that I missed?
>
> > What difference does it make to *your* life that you feel it is so important
> > to make fun of them and try to humiliate them?
> I wasn't trying. You do a fine job all on your own.
You weren't trying ? This is normal for you?
>
> >Is it just because they are not like you or is there another reason?
> Off topic
Of course.
Vivienne
Gargoylle
I assume the reason you are showing your mother in law these posts is
because you can't relate to anyone in the real world outside your
family. BTW, is she protecting your happiness by telling you don't
have to listen to the things the bad people are saying to you? After
all, it's far more important to be happy than live in reality.
Gar
Vivienne Welchner
Gargoylle wrote:
>
> I assume the reason you are showing your mother in law these posts is
> because you can't relate to anyone in the real world outside your
> family.
You assume a lot of things.
>BTW, is she protecting your happiness by telling you don't
> have to listen to the things the bad people are saying to you?
Is this another assumption?
>After
> all, it's far more important to be happy than live in reality.
For some it is. Does that bother you?
Vivienne
zxcvbob
>
> In article <1eew0lq.ifvlvv7i3l4wN%sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de>,
> sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
> > Serve with mustard and a good Brötchen (bread roll), as
> > well as with good beer of the Düsseldorfer Altbier or, failing that,
> > pilsener type.
>
> Would someone mind explaining the difference between a pilsener and a
> lager beer? Aren't most commercial (non-micro-brewed) beers of the
> lager type anymore?
>
"Lager" refers to the the type of yeast used to brew it -- bottom
fermenting as opposed to top fermenting ale yeasts. Lagers are brewed
at lower temperatures than ales. There are other technical differences
that I won't bore you with. "Pilsener" refers to a style of lager beer
that is light colored with a lot of hops. American commercial beer is
mostly lager beer, an adaptation of the pilsener style but brewed
without much hops character and usually with a lot of unmalted grain.
Bob
--
"Hey, don't drink that poison! That's four dollars an ounce!"
--Groucho Marx
Herb
>
> Jack...thanks for posting the Karl Ehmer site..we used to go to the original
> store when we lived in NY....and it is the BEST.
I second that - I spent a year in Seaford, LI and my mother once a week
went to their store ( Valley Stream?) and loaded up. I also think they
had a branch in White Plains.
Herb
------------------------------------------------------------
Appetizers and Specialty Foods
Http://www.tapasfoods.com
Fax (407) 855-1531
------------------------------------------------------------
David Bugg
> > Gargoylle wrote:
> >After
> > all, it's far more important to be happy than live in reality.
> For some it is. Does that bother you?
>
> Vivienne
Gee, Viv, as long as you aren't allowed to drive or own a gun, your
drug-induced, pitiful existence doesn't much bother me or probably
anyone else. I've now waded through enough of your
tiptoe-through-the-tulips crap to know that your contributions to RFC
won't be missed when you hit my kill-file. And that just pisses me off
even more because I hate using my kill-file; but if I don't use it,
I'll be up all night puking my guts out from swallowing all that
"Strawberry Fields Forever" swill you've been serving.
So, here's hello and goodbye to Vivienne, that Whole Earth Catalogue
persona who's sum-totaled earthly existence and experience has been all
downhill since Woodstock.
---PLONK---
Jack Schidt
Gargoylle <garg...@postmaster.co.uk> wrote in message
news:s9voossauc27h69e1...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 22:52:43 GMT, Vivienne Welchner
> <welc...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >Hi Sheldon
> >
> >PENMART10 wrote:
> >>
> >> You must've aggrivated the poor old geezer to death...
but at least he no
> >> longer needs to tolerate you... so I'm sure he's
finally enjoying some peace.
> >
> >My mother in law thought this post also was very funny.
> >
> >Vivienne
these posts is
> because you can't relate to anyone in the real world
outside your
you don't
> have to listen to the things the bad people are saying to
> all, it's far more important to be happy than live in
reality.
>
What is up with the anti Viv posts? I've not seen anything
randy from her. Then again, I love abuse.
where am I and why am I there?
Jack Owsley
Jack Schidt
Store.....it makes KE look like Usingers
Jack Landjaeger
Herb <HPro...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:398CAA...@worldnet.att.net...
Jack Schidt
S.Dunlap <mal...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:bYXi5.99$Iu2....@paloalto-snr2.gtei.net...
> Jack...thanks for posting the Karl Ehmer site..we used to
go to the original
grew up in
> Ridgewood. We only started buying Usingers when we moved
from NY and pre
> internet (for us anyway) so we had to make due with what
was available. I
> suppose I will have to damage the old Mastercard now that
I've got access
> to Ehmer's again.
>
> --
> S.Dunlap
>
>
>
Do it. I endured Usinger's when I lived out west and it was
wanting. Ersatz Germans making Ersatz Fleisch. gimme a
break. KE is the way to go, unless the Forest Pork Store
does a web page (the krainer wurst is awesome, and so is the
landjaeger). And, you can hear the old ladies say, when
they
run out of bratwurst on the 4th of July, " You should have
been more prepared for the holiday" and "I got my bratwurst
3 days ago". nicely done.
Jack Onderdonk
Jack Schidt
David Bugg <db...@crcwnet.com> wrote in message
news:8mi53d$nou$1...@news.tdl.com...
> Vivienne Welchner <welc...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:398C8247...@home.com...
>
> > > Gargoylle wrote:
> > > all, it's far more important to be happy than live in
reality.
>
> >
> > Vivienne
>
> Gee, Viv, as long as you aren't allowed to drive or own a
gun, your
> drug-induced, pitiful existence doesn't much bother me or
probably
> anyone else. I've now waded through enough of your
> tiptoe-through-the-tulips crap to know that your
contributions to RFC
> won't be missed when you hit my kill-file. And that just
pisses me off
> even more because I hate using my kill-file; but if I
don't use it,
> I'll be up all night puking my guts out from swallowing
all that
> "Strawberry Fields Forever" swill you've been serving.
>
> So, here's hello and goodbye to Vivienne, that Whole Earth
Catalogue
> persona who's sum-totaled earthly existence and experience
has been all
> downhill since Woodstock.
> ---PLONK---
>
>
L for Loser, Dave Bugg, the unfertile crescent.
Jack Schidt
If we haven't met you don't have welts!
S.Dunlap
Jack Schidt <jack....@nospam.att.net> wrote in message
news:s71j5.22690$RG6.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
My sister is still on LI..where is the Forest Pork Store? I'll have to send
her there so she can ship me some stuff! LOL
Sandi
Jack Schidt
380 E Jericho Tpke
Huntington Station
New York 11746
and the original
66-39 Forest Avenue (corner of Woodbine)
Ridgewood, NY 11385
David Bugg
> David Bugg <db...@crcwnet.com> wrote in message
> news:8mi53d$nou$1...@news.tdl.com...
**snip
> > So, here's hello and goodbye to Vivienne, that Whole Earth
> Catalogue
> > persona who's sum-totaled earthly existence and experience
> has been all
> > downhill since Woodstock.
> > ---PLONK---
> L for Loser, Dave Bugg, the unfertile crescent.
Geez, Jack, why didn't ya let us all know you had a sticky-hot hard-on
for good ole Viv. Far be it for me ta 'dis anyone's hoe.
Gargoylle
<jack....@nospam.att.net> wrote:
>
>What is up with the anti Viv posts? I've not seen anything
>randy from her. Then again, I love abuse.
>
>
>where am I and why am I there?
>
>
>Jack Owsley
>
When she stated it was more important to have a good relationship with
kids than it was to make sure they ate everything, she put me over the
edge. I normally don't read her posts. I come her to learn about
cooking and she usually talks about other things. It was a mistake to
read her again. The flames on my end are over. It gets boring.
Gar
Vivienne Welchner
Jack Schidt wrote:
> L for Loser, Dave Bugg, the unfertile crescent.
:-) I couldn't respond to him as I'm killfiled. Thanks for doing it for
me.
Vivienne
Nona Myers
<mad...@mailbag.spammenot.com> wrote:
>In article <1eew0lq.ifvlvv7i3l4wN%sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de>,
>sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
>> Serve with mustard and a good Br?tchen (bread roll), as
>> well as with good beer of the D?sseldorfer Altbier or, failing that,
>> pilsener type.
>
>Would someone mind explaining the difference between a pilsener and a
>lager beer? Aren't most commercial (non-micro-brewed) beers of the
>lager type anymore?
>
Happen to have a book called Beer for Dummies. According to the
author, beer types fall between ale and lager, with some hybrid
styles such as altbier, steam beer, cream ale, and Kolsch.
Pilsener or Pilsner is of lager style with aromatic, subtly
malty, crisp, and refreshingly bittered (hoppy) taste. The
authentic beer comes from Czech.
Alistair Gale
The flames on my end are over. It gets boring.
Ouch! Eating too many beans in the presence of a naked flame?
--
alistair
Ah, Blackadder. Started talking to yourself, I see.
Yes...it's the only way I can be assured of intelligent conversation.
-- Melchett and Edmund : Potato
blake murphy
<jack....@nospam.att.net> wrote:
>
>David Bugg <db...@crcwnet.com> wrote in message
>news:8mi53d$nou$1...@news.tdl.com...
>> Vivienne Welchner <welc...@home.com> wrote in message
>> news:398C8247...@home.com...
>>
>> > > Gargoylle wrote:
>> > >After
>> > > all, it's far more important to be happy than live in
>reality.
>>
>> > For some it is. Does that bother you?
>> >
>> > Vivienne
>>
>> Gee, Viv, as long as you aren't allowed to drive or own a
>gun, your
>> drug-induced, pitiful existence doesn't much bother me or
>probably
>> anyone else. I've now waded through enough of your
>> tiptoe-through-the-tulips crap to know that your
>contributions to RFC
>> won't be missed when you hit my kill-file. And that just
>pisses me off
>> even more because I hate using my kill-file; but if I
>don't use it,
>> I'll be up all night puking my guts out from swallowing
>all that
>> "Strawberry Fields Forever" swill you've been serving.
>>
>> So, here's hello and goodbye to Vivienne, that Whole Earth
>Catalogue
>> persona who's sum-totaled earthly existence and experience
>has been all
>> downhill since Woodstock.
>> ---PLONK---
>>
>>
>
>
>L for Loser, Dave Bugg, the unfertile crescent.
>
>Jack Schidt
>
>If we haven't met you don't have welts!
>
>
i also was wondering what was on dave b's mind. good thing he doesn't
go in for flame wars.
your pal,
blake
Jack Schidt
> Jack Schidt <jack....@nospam.att.net> wrote in message
>
news:eo1j5.22700$RG6.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.
net...
>
>
> > > So, here's hello and goodbye to Vivienne, that Whole
Earth
> > Catalogue
> > > persona who's sum-totaled earthly existence and
experience
> > has been all
> > > downhill since Woodstock.
> > > ---PLONK---
>
> > L for Loser, Dave Bugg, the unfertile crescent.
>
sticky-hot hard-on
> for good ole Viv. Far be it for me ta 'dis anyone's hoe.
>
>
>
>
>
Aww, I'll sober up and forget all of it.
Jack Daniel
Jack Schidt
> On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 22:50:10 GMT, "Jack Schidt"
> <jack....@nospam.att.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> >What is up with the anti Viv posts? I've not seen
anything
> >randy from her. Then again, I love abuse.
> >
> >
> >where am I and why am I there?
> >
> >
> >Jack Owsley
> >
> When she stated it was more important to have a good
relationship with
> kids than it was to make sure they ate everything, she put
me over the
> edge. I normally don't read her posts. I come her to learn
about
> cooking and she usually talks about other things. It was a
mistake to
boring.
>
> Gar
THAT'S IT??!! ygbfkm
and that's the first off topic posting we've seen here?
Christ, every post mutates into some drivel about reply no.
59 or so. some of the long time posters are the most
guilty. I've seen boulliabaise posts segue into
embroidering advice and I've seen cooking board posts
denigrate to flame wars. gimme a break!
Jack Schidt
"If we haven't met, you really don't know Jack Schidt"
a meeting
Jack Schidt and Doodley Squat.
Both: "I really dont' know you"
Jack Schidt
Pilsner Urquell comes to mind.
Jack Czechmate
Victor Sack
> Would someone mind explaining the difference between a pilsener and a
> lager beer?
There are two general types of beer: ale and lager. Ale, an older type,
is a generic term for top-fermented beer. Lager is a generic term for
bottom-fermented beer. Any other designations are subsets of either of
the two generic types. Pilsener, being bottom-fermented, is by
definition a lager, but one that is defined by its golden colour, a
relatively high degree of bitterness, and a neither too high, nor too
low, alcohol content. Theoretically, a pilsener should always be a beer
of superior quality, aiming to resemble the original Pilsener Urquell.
In practice, though, many brewers, especially those outside of the Czech
Republic and Germany, don't care about the quality of their pilseners as
much as one would like.
Victor
Victor Sack
Nona Myers <no...@mikan.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Aug 2000 08:32:36 +0200, sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de
> (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
> > Serve with mustard and a good Brötchen (bread roll), as
> >well as with good beer of the Düsseldorfer Altbier or, failing that,
> >pilsener type.
> >
> What type of bread roll is this? Hard and chewy type or soft?
It's both, actually. :-) The crust is chewy, the crumb is soft. In
this respect, it is not unlike a good French baguette, except that the
crust is generally a bit thinner, crisper and flakier, and the crumb not
quite as dense.
> Also, what type of mustard is usually used?
Here in Düsseldorf, it is generally Düsseldorf-type mustard, not
surprisingly. The best-known brand is Löwensenf, which may very well be
available in the USA. I personally prefer a hotter type of mustard,
such as Colman's or the locally produced Thomy brand of hot mustard.
> In the past, I used to really like dark and amber ale, but
> lately I find it too filling with some food. Lately, I really
> like Spaten; it seems to really go well with many foods,
> including Japanese and Chinese foods. I still like Guinesses
> with certain foods though.
I used to like Spaten, but now it tastes much too sweet for me. I now
prefer Altbier or pilsener, if I am to drink beer at all.
Victor
Victor Sack
> Victor Sack <sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de> wrote in message
> news:1eew0lq.ifvlvv7i3l4wN%sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de...
> >
> > There are a few deluded souls
> who insist on
> > boiling them in some kind of liquid before grilling or
> frying them, but
> > such depravity has no place in a civilised society.
>
> Quite simply, you are wrong about this. It relaxes the
> casing resulting in a better frying and doesn't affect the
> taste.
If the bratwurst is well-made and fried correctly, i.e. slowly and
gently, there is absolutely no need to boil it beforehand. You would
have to search long and hard for people who boil Bratwürste in Germany.
> Grilling is still the best way to go.
Agreed.
Victor
Martha Hughes
JAFischer <fish...@lvcm.com> wrote in message
news:som4r2...@corp.supernews.com...
> I was stationed in Germany for 4 years.....grew to love brats. My only
> problem is finding brats that taste like authentic german brats.
> Johnsonville is good, but not as brats. I was born and raised in PA Dutch
> country, and Johnsonville is what I relate to breakfast sausage. (Yes,
even
> though they're extremely large for breakfast sausage). That's just the
way
> we ate when we we're growing up. Now, a German brat should be mostly pale
> with speckles of spices inside. I've found some that are almost totally
> white, which don't quite taste the same...but almost. When I was
stationed
> in CA they had a German Deli & Butcher Shoppe I used to go to in Modesto.
> They had some awesome brats. Unfortunately, the place burnt down and the
> family decided not to rebuild. I'm also looking for some mettwurst.
Never
> have been able to find them yet here in the states. They're smoked
> bratwurst.
>
> At least I learned a few things while over there....can give you a recipe
> for an awesome cordon bleu, kartoffelsalat (potato salad), spiesse braten
> (we have no equivalent that I know of but it's basically roast pork with
all
> kinds of good stuffings made on a rotisserie), and hanchen (rotisserie
> chicken). Please forgive the spelling errors, it's been quite awhile now.
> One thing I was always surprised about: with all the gooooood food, beer,
> and wine, I'm surprised I didn't come back from there considerably heavier
> than when I got there. But, I didn't and I loved every minute of it.
> German cuisine is my all-time favorite even today. But like I said, I'm
> from PA Dutch country, so that doesn't surprise me. Guten Essen!> news:t5ulos4ke56mc1nbn...@4ax.com...
> > After reading that bratwurst is a favorite sausage in some parts
> > of US, I bought more than I should have. So far I must be doing
> > something wrong preparing this. I thought it was cooked same as
> > regular hotdogs (ie steaming), but it really doesn't take all
> > that good. What is the preferred way of serving brats? Do I
> > grill instead? Any recipes appreciated for this sausage-
> > impaired person.
> > --
> > Nona Myers
> > (another hapa & foodie, email at)
> > nonaatbestdotcom
>
had a wonderful brat (and some cheddar!!!). My friend and I went to have
lunch in a restaurant near the venue. I had a hankering for a Bloody Mary
and my friend ordered a hamburger. Well, California Greenhorn that he is
ordered it with Jack cheese. The waiter looked at him with a puzzled
expression and I just about burst out laughing. You just don't go to
Wincosin and order Jack cheese!!!
>
Andy G
> Pilsner Urquell comes to mind.
>
> Jack Czechmate
>
And a Czech beer called "Budvar" sometimes and "Budweiser" others (at
least when marketed in the UK).
Nothing like US Budweiser and a "must try" along with Pilsner Urquell.
And Faxe from Denmark. And Grolsch from Holland. And Dortmunder Union...
Andy G
--
Isn't it strange that the people who most want to
share their religious views with you are the same
people who least want you to share yours with them?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
t r i l l i u m
>Madwen <mad...@mailbag.spammenot.com> wrote:
>
>> Would someone mind explaining the difference between a pilsener and a
>> lager beer?
>
>There are two general types of beer: ale and lager. Ale, an older type,
>is a generic term for top-fermented beer. Lager is a generic term for
>bottom-fermented beer. Any other designations are subsets of either of
Bottom-fermented beer that is fermented at cooler temps than an ale, and then
"lagered" or aged in the cold. Most beer purists I know wouldn't consider a
beer brewed with a lager yeast at ale temps a lager...but rather a hybrid of
sorts (between lager and ale) that goes by the name of "steam" or California
common if you're worried about trademarks. Mr. Maytag gave this sort of beer
more respectability than it knew in its infancy, but I don't think the most
avid steam fan would group it with lagers.
>the two generic types. Pilsener, being bottom-fermented, is by
>definition a lager, but one that is defined by its golden colour, a
>relatively high degree of bitterness, and a neither too high, nor too
>low, alcohol content. Theoretically, a pilsener should always be a beer
>of superior quality, aiming to resemble the original Pilsener Urquell.
>In practice, though, many brewers, especially those outside of the Czech
>Republic and Germany, don't care about the quality of their pilseners as
>much as one would like.
Um, excuse me, sir. But it depends on what sort of brewers you're referring
to. There are many brewers outside of the Czech Republic an Germany who care
very much about the quality of their pilseners. Hop over to
rec.crafts.brewing in the late fall (when thoughts turn to pilseners) if you'd
like an example or two.
regards,
trillium
regards,
trillium
Jack Schidt
t r i l l i u m <tbla...@nwu.edu> wrote in message
news:8mmsig$gft$2...@news.acns.nwu.edu...
> sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack) wrote:
> >Madwen <mad...@mailbag.spammenot.com> wrote:
> >
> Bottom-fermented beer that is fermented at cooler temps
than an ale, and then
> "lagered" or aged in the cold. Most beer purists I know
wouldn't consider a
> beer brewed with a lager yeast at ale temps a lager...but
rather a hybrid of
> sorts (between lager and ale) that goes by the name of
"steam" or California
> common if you're worried about trademarks. Mr. Maytag
gave this sort of beer
> more respectability than it knew in its infancy, but I
don't think the most
> avid steam fan would group it with lagers.
Lager yeast needs to floculate at around 55 deg F; much
higher and it will sour.
>
> >the two generic types. Pilsener, being bottom-fermented,
is by
> >definition a lager, but one that is defined by its golden
colour, a
> >relatively high degree of bitterness, and a neither too
high, nor too
> >low, alcohol content. Theoretically, a pilsener should
always be a beer
> >of superior quality, aiming to resemble the original
Pilsener Urquell.
> >In practice, though, many brewers, especially those
outside of the Czech
> >Republic and Germany, don't care about the quality of
their pilseners as
> >much as one would like.
>
> Um, excuse me, sir. But it depends on what sort of
brewers you're referring
> to. There are many brewers outside of the Czech Republic
an Germany who care
> very much about the quality of their pilseners. Hop over
to
> rec.crafts.brewing in the late fall (when thoughts turn to
pilseners) if you'd
> like an example or two.
>
Bullseye! As a home brewer I put a lot of effort into my
beer.
Jack Alewife
Victor Sack
> sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack) wrote:
> >
> >There are two general types of beer: ale and lager. Ale, an older type,
> >is a generic term for top-fermented beer. Lager is a generic term for
> >bottom-fermented beer. Any other designations are subsets of either of
>
> Bottom-fermented beer that is fermented at cooler temps than an ale, and then
> "lagered" or aged in the cold. Most beer purists I know wouldn't consider a
> beer brewed with a lager yeast at ale temps a lager...but rather a hybrid of
> sorts (between lager and ale) that goes by the name of "steam" or California
> common if you're worried about trademarks. Mr. Maytag gave this sort of beer
> more respectability than it knew in its infancy, but I don't think the most
> avid steam fan would group it with lagers.
'Steam' beer is indeed somewhat of an odd one out, but I would still
argue that it is a lager, since it is bottom-fermented. Actually the
first lager beers were top-fermented, they were only aged at cool
temperatures. After all, 'lager' just means 'storage place'; 'lagern'
means 'to keep', 'to store'. Even today, Düsseldorfer Altbier, a
top-fermented beer, is brewed at high temperatures, yet aged cold, like
lager, exactly like those first lagers. It doesn't make it a hybrid, it
is still most certainly an ale, even though it tastes like no other one.
Gradually, new yeasts developed that were suitable for cooler
temperatures of both brewing and storage and, at the same time, brewing
methods were adjusted to deal with those yeasts, which now typically
work best at cooler temperatures. Today, 'lager' is a term used by most
brewers to mean bottom-fermented beer, no matter how it is made and
where it comes from. There are quite a few lagers tasting like ales and
quite a few ales tasting like lagers - with a lot of beers somewhere
in-between. Yet, the generic terms, lager and ale, still apply in every
case.
> >In practice, though, many brewers, especially those outside of the Czech
> >Republic and Germany, don't care about the quality of their pilseners as
> >much as one would like.
>
> Um, excuse me, sir.
Why, of course, ma'am, but...
> But it depends on what sort of brewers you're referring
> to. There are many brewers outside of the Czech Republic an Germany who care
> very much about the quality of their pilseners. Hop over to
> rec.crafts.brewing in the late fall (when thoughts turn to pilseners) if you'd
> like an example or two.
... I wasn't referring to any specific brewers, but to *many* brewers,
of which quantity a particularly large subset seems to find itself
outside of the Czech Republic and Germany. Considering how many
pilseners are produced nowadays, it is a statistical inevitability that
many, if not most, of them will be substandard. My and some other
people's experience of tasting pilseners outside of those two countries
certainly suggests that the probability of happening upon a substandard
one is significantly higher in other countries. No one is arguing that
many wonderful pilseners are made elsewhere also.
Victor
t r i l l i u m
>t r i l l i u m <tbla...@nwu.edu> wrote:
>
>> sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack) wrote:
>> >
>> >There are two general types of beer: ale and lager. Ale, an older type,
>> >is a generic term for top-fermented beer. Lager is a generic term for
>> >bottom-fermented beer. Any other designations are subsets of either of
>>
>> Bottom-fermented beer that is fermented at cooler temps than an ale, and then
>> "lagered" or aged in the cold. Most beer purists I know wouldn't consider a
>> beer brewed with a lager yeast at ale temps a lager...but rather a hybrid of
>> sorts (between lager and ale) that goes by the name of "steam" or California
>> common if you're worried about trademarks. Mr. Maytag gave this sort of beer
>> more respectability than it knew in its infancy, but I don't think the most
>> avid steam fan would group it with lagers.
>
>'Steam' beer is indeed somewhat of an odd one out, but I would still
What's odd about it? Lager yeasts use to ferment wort at temperatures much
higher than the yeast had evolved to ferment at. Keg get tapped, beer goes
shooting out at such high pressure one could imagine, if one were a gold miner
with a good or addled imagination, that this seemed like a steaming pot.
>argue that it is a lager, since it is bottom-fermented. Actually the
>first lager beers were top-fermented, they were only aged at cool
>temperatures. After all, 'lager' just means 'storage place'; 'lagern'
>means 'to keep', 'to store'. Even today, Düsseldorfer Altbier, a
>top-fermented beer, is brewed at high temperatures, yet aged cold, like
>lager, exactly like those first lagers. It doesn't make it a hybrid, it
>is still most certainly an ale, even though it tastes like no other one.
>Gradually, new yeasts developed that were suitable for cooler
>temperatures of both brewing and storage and, at the same time, brewing
>methods were adjusted to deal with those yeasts, which now typically
>work best at cooler temperatures. Today, 'lager' is a term used by most
>brewers to mean bottom-fermented beer, no matter how it is made and
>where it comes from. There are quite a few lagers tasting like ales and
That's not the way I read into it, but maybe it's because homebrewers that I
know here in the US do not refer to California commons as lagers. A lager
needs to be made with a lager yeast, and lagered in cold temperatures. A
steam beer is in a separate catagory and to my tongue, tastes more like an ale
than a lager.
>.... I wasn't referring to any specific brewers, but to *many* brewers,
>of which quantity a particularly large subset seems to find itself
>outside of the Czech Republic and Germany. Considering how many
>pilseners are produced nowadays, it is a statistical inevitability that
>many, if not most, of them will be substandard. My and some other
>people's experience of tasting pilseners outside of those two countries
I was being purposefully obtuse. I knew you were referring to commercial
brewers and I was refering to homebrewers.
regards,
trillium
Victor Sack
> sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack) wrote:
> >
> >'Steam' beer is indeed somewhat of an odd one out, but I would still
>
> What's odd about it? Lager yeasts use to ferment wort at temperatures much
> higher than the yeast had evolved to ferment at. Keg get tapped, beer goes
> shooting out at such high pressure one could imagine, if one were a gold miner
> with a good or addled imagination, that this seemed like a steaming pot.
I've heard of a less romantic version, according to which the name is
derived from the power source used in the brewery at the time.
Apparently, some other breweries also used to have 'steam' in their
names for the same reasons. The odd thing about this beer is supposed
to be not the name, but the method of fermenting it at high temperatures
with lager yeasts, and using unusually wide, flat containers for the
purpose. Some people even argue that the brewery ended up developing a
different yeast entirely.
>
> That's not the way I read into it, but maybe it's because homebrewers that I
> know here in the US do not refer to California commons as lagers.
Lots of different lagers in California, I would imagine.
> A lager
> needs to be made with a lager yeast, and lagered in cold temperatures.
It is apparently no different with a steam beer - it's only fermented at
higher temperatures.
> A
> steam beer is in a separate catagory and to my tongue, tastes more like an ale
> than a lager.
The same thing can be said about quite a few beers - lagers taste like
ales, and vice versa. Altbier, an ale, tastes more like a lager; quite
a few Bavarian lagers resemble some ales (particularly Irish ones) much
more than they resemble any other lagers.
'Lager' and 'ale' are today supposed to be just technical terms, meaning
bottom- or top-fermenting beers respectively. They are not supposed to
be taste or value judgements.
There was a time in Paris (in the 80's, IIRC) when it was fashionable to
serve magret de canard (duck breast) cooked in such a way as to resemble
beef steak. The results were indeed very close in taste and appearance
to the thin, chewy, poor-quality steak that is so often encountered in
Paris to this day. The only apparent difference was the duck being
served with something other than the ubiquitous frites, and costing
quite a bit more. The first time I was served that dish, I was fooled
by the taste and appearance and tried to send it back, thinking they'd
just made a mistake. After consuming a couple of such dishes at
different places, I got a bit wiser. That traumatic experience has kept
me from ordering or cooking duck breasts to this day, even though I'm
perfectly well aware of different, and much more appetizing, ways it
could be prepared. Well, what can I say... however successfully it
tried to resemble beef, it still remained duck...
> I was being purposefully obtuse. I knew you were referring to commercial
> brewers and I was refering to homebrewers.
Ah, I was, indeed, but it actually applied to both. I would imagine
there are many more bad homebrewers than there are good ones. However,
that may just be my imagination.
Victor
Victor Sack
> sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
> Well, all of the yeasts that we buy for different beers, I would argue are a
> different yeast beast entirely.
Would you prefer a different classification on the most basic level, to
replace bottom fermentation (lager)/top fermentation (ale)? Or would
you rather there is no such classification at all?
> Some are pretty similiar, the London ale and
> the English ale can substitute for each other. Their flavor profiles are all
> very different. Those Belgian wheat dudes, blech, all that phenol and banana
> flavor I can live without...give me a nice English ale yeast or German lager
> (during winter) and I'm a happy camper.
Yeah, don't like Belgian beers myself, even though I've never tried
home-brewed ones. Can you get an Altbier yeast, too?
> Some. More ales and what I'll insist on calling California commons, just
> because. Did you know that a commercial brewery can't call it's beer steam?
> Anchor trademarked the name when Mr. Maytag got involved.
Yes, I know about the copyright. I've also read that, in the olden
days, there used to be many breweries that marketed beers with 'steam'
in their names. In Germany, there is at least one beer that is called
'Dampfbier', which means the same thing and which is also a trade mark.
It, I gather, is a very different beer, though.
> But what would you call ostrich? Neither duck nor beef, but resembles a
> little of both....
I would still call it poultry, if farmed, and (feathered) game, if wild.
> you should give duck breast another try, preferably still
> attached to the rest of the duck and bought at a Chinese bbq store.
I don't think there are many Chinese bbq shops around here. :-( I do
like duck, breast and all, cooked more traditionally than by trying to
make a beef steak out of it, and that includes various Chinese methods.
I particularly like Peking duck.
> I guess it all depends on who you know who brews. It's gotten so I can't
> drink "store bought" beer, even the good stuff doesn't taste as good as home
> grown, and we don't do all grain, but start with malt extracts.
I wonder what you'd say if you were in Germany... :-)
> There are
> some microbreweries whose products I not only enjoy, but admire. When I share
> our largess with other people they are always very surprised at how good it
> is, so I imagine there have to be some pretty awful home brews out there.
> Having a biochemist and biologist doing the brewing probably helps.
Something tells me that people like you must be in the minority...
perhaps a vanishingly small one, too...
Victor
t r i l l i u m
>t r i l l i u m <tbla...@nwu.edu> wrote:
>
>> sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack) wrote:
>>
>> Well, all of the yeasts that we buy for different beers, I would argue are a
>> different yeast beast entirely.
>
>Would you prefer a different classification on the most basic level, to
>replace bottom fermentation (lager)/top fermentation (ale)? Or would
>you rather there is no such classification at all?
Are you asking the brewer or the scientist? I think that most brewers (myself
included) don't really care, and to have a evolutionary tree of the yeast
beasts based on their genome similarity to classify beer types isn't going to
happen any time soon. As I scientist, I think the classifications don't
really mean much of anything anyway.
>Yeah, don't like Belgian beers myself, even though I've never tried
>home-brewed ones. Can you get an Altbier yeast, too?
Yup.
>I wonder what you'd say if you were in Germany... :-)
I've spent a couple weeks in Bavaria. Some really great beer, some really
mediocre beer, the ratio a little higher there than here (US). I'm biased, I
like English ales best, with plenty of hopping.
>Something tells me that people like you must be in the minority...
>perhaps a vanishingly small one, too...
I dunno. Most of the homebrew I've tasted has been really good...but they're
people I've met through the ng, not the guys who got a Mr. Beer for xmas.
regards,
trillium
Victor Sack
> sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack) wrote:
> >
> >Would you prefer a different classification on the most basic level, to
> >replace bottom fermentation (lager)/top fermentation (ale)? Or would
> >you rather there is no such classification at all?
>
> Are you asking the brewer or the scientist? I think that most brewers (myself
> included) don't really care, and to have a evolutionary tree of the yeast
> beasts based on their genome similarity to classify beer types isn't going to
> happen any time soon.
Well, 'classification', in the context, is almost synonymous with
'definition'. Otherwise, referring to lager and ale, and to lager and
ale yeasts wouldn't make much sense.
> As I scientist, I think the classifications don't
> really mean much of anything anyway.
What is this strange sound I keep hearing? Could it be the collective
gritting of teeth by taxonomists everywhere? :-)
> >I wonder what you'd say if you were in Germany... :-)
>
> I've spent a couple weeks in Bavaria.
Whoever said anything about Bavaria? It's Germany I asked you about!
;-) Even though the rest of Germany is highly regionalized, as far as
beer is concerned, Bavaria is in a world of its own.
> Some really great beer, some really
> mediocre beer, the ratio a little higher there than here (US). I'm biased, I
> like English ales best, with plenty of hopping.
No wonder you didn't like many of the Bavarian beers - they are way too
sweet, with not a lot of hopping. I suspect a good Düsseldorfer Altbier
would be right in your corner.
Victor
Geeta Bharathan
: >
: >Would you prefer a different classification on the most basic level, to
: >replace bottom fermentation (lager)/top fermentation (ale)? Or would
: >you rather there is no such classification at all?
: Are you asking the brewer or the scientist? I think that most brewers (myself
: included) don't really care, and to have a evolutionary tree of the yeast
: beasts based on their genome similarity to classify beer types isn't going to
: happen any time soon. As I scientist, I think the classifications don't
: really mean much of anything anyway.
Oooh. cant let that last sentence go by just like that. What do you mean
classifications dont mean much?!!! (and given the context I assume you
mean evolutionary trees?)
--Geeta, a scientist, too
Martha Hughes
Andy G <andy_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8mmfpf$1n8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > Pilsner Urquell comes to mind.
> >
> > Jack Czechmate
> >
>
> And a Czech beer called "Budvar" sometimes and "Budweiser" others (at
> least when marketed in the UK).
>
> Nothing like US Budweiser and a "must try" along with Pilsner Urquell.
>
> And Faxe from Denmark. And Grolsch from Holland. And Dortmunder Union...
And Ringes from Norway
t r i l l i u m
>> As I scientist, I think the classifications don't
>> really mean much of anything anyway.
>
>What is this strange sound I keep hearing? Could it be the collective
>gritting of teeth by taxonomists everywhere? :-)
Sigh. I've been horribly misunderstood (see my response to Geeta).
>> I've spent a couple weeks in Bavaria.
>
>Whoever said anything about Bavaria? It's Germany I asked you about!
>;-) Even though the rest of Germany is highly regionalized, as far as
>beer is concerned, Bavaria is in a world of its own.
>
>> Some really great beer, some really
>> mediocre beer, the ratio a little higher there than here (US). I'm biased,
I
>> like English ales best, with plenty of hopping.
>
>No wonder you didn't like many of the Bavarian beers - they are way too
>sweet, with not a lot of hopping. I suspect a good Düsseldorfer Altbier
>would be right in your corner.
Hey, if I show up, are you buying? (I suspect you're right!)
regards,
trillium
t r i l l i u m
>t r i l l i u m (tbla...@nwu.edu) wrote:
>: >Would you prefer a different classification on the most basic level, to
>: >replace bottom fermentation (lager)/top fermentation (ale)? Or would
>: >you rather there is no such classification at all?
>
>: Are you asking the brewer or the scientist? I think that most brewers
(myself
>: included) don't really care, and to have a evolutionary tree of the yeast
>: beasts based on their genome similarity to classify beer types isn't going
to
>
>classifications dont mean much?!!! (and given the context I assume you
>mean evolutionary trees?)
The classification of lager vs. ale, that's all! Not evolutionary trees,
just beer. From where I stand, the yeast within an ale or lager group are
sometimes more different from each other than from a yeast beast from the
other group. So, I don't think that those two classifications mean much to
yeast science, just to beer, and then I think they're not very good
classifications/definitions for beer. Is that better?
Hope you can sleep at night now <wink>?
regards,
trillium
>
>--Geeta, a scientist, too
Victor Sack
> sa...@uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
> > I suspect a good Düsseldorfer Altbier
> >would be right in your corner.
>
> Hey, if I show up, are you buying? (I suspect you're right!)
You are on! This expressly includes all the Altbier brands produced
around here, as well as any other interesting beers to be found. I
expect you will want to do some comparative tasting, after all...
Victor
English Muffins are important too
>>perhaps a vanishingly small one, too...
>I dunno. Most of the homebrew I've tasted has been really good...but they're
>people I've met through the ng, not the guys who got a Mr. Beer for xmas.
I think it depends a lot on where you are too. Certainly looking around my
own home town (Portland, Oregon) there are way more microbrews on the
shelves of the grocery stores than there were 10-15 years ago. If
restaurants in town have beer on tap they have a microbrew, at least one.
And even the funny little golf sports bar up the hill brews their own very
good beer. So the taste for good beer is not vanishing in Portland and
many other places in the west USA (Denver, Boulder, Seattle are all known
for having some good beers too).
Of course a lot of Portland area "hopheads" complain now that many
imported beers are sort of bland. ;-) But then they have the often
typical American philosophy of more hops is better beer.
Johanna
--
------------------------------------------------------
tur...@reed.edu Johanna C. Colgrove
Computer User Services Reed College
"Why can't you be a non-conformist like everyone else?"