OT: Brexit - Opinions...???!!!

[GM]

So on even the "mainstream" network nooze here in the states I am seeing huge and FRANTIC crowds in the UK re: BREXIT...

Please chime in, tell US wot YOU think...!!!

;-D

--
Best
Greg

[Ed Pawlowski]

I'd not want to follow some of the silly rules from a group of
solialists in Brussels.

I don't know enough to say if it is good or bad right now for the Brits,
but I can see why they would want out.

[Bruce]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:33:39 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 3/29/2019 7:08 PM, GM wrote:
>> So on even the "mainstream" network nooze here in the states I am seeing huge and FRANTIC crowds in the UK re: BREXIT...
>>
>> Please chime in, tell US wot YOU think...!!!
>>
>> ;-D
>>
>
>I'd not want to follow some of the silly rules from a group of
>solialists in Brussels.

Solialist? Is this the typical American misuse of the word 'socialist'
again?

>I don't know enough to say if it is good or bad right now for the Brits,
>but I can see why they would want out.

It's fun for old Brits. It gives them an ego boost. It's bad for young
Brits, because they're going to lose a lot of employment
opportunities. But too many young people couldn't be bothered to get
off their asses and vote to stay. Now they're paying the price :)

[Leonard Blaisdell]

In article <gkbt9etfvk50rdork...@4ax.com>, Bruce

<br...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> It's fun for old Brits. It gives them an ego boost. It's bad for young
> Brits, because they're going to lose a lot of employment
> opportunities. But too many young people couldn't be bothered to get
> off their asses and vote to stay. Now they're paying the price :)

Bruce, Brexit hasn't happened yet. Time will tell and President Trump,
the most hated man on Usenet, will offer full U.S. support to Great
Britain when it does. Bet on it.

leo

[Bruce]

Yes, time will tell. Let's first see if the Brexit's going to happen
at all. Their politicians seem incapable of moving forward. Maybe they
should hold another referendum :)

[Leonard Blaisdell]

In article <7mgt9e92l9p8hvj1j...@4ax.com>, Bruce

<br...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Yes, time will tell. Let's first see if the Brexit's going to happen
> at all. Their politicians seem incapable of moving forward. Maybe they
> should hold another referendum :)

I don't know. Cameron was smart enough to resign right after the Brexit
vote came in. What PM May thinks she can accomplish has always been a
mystery to me. Brits know their own country way better than I do.
I have always thought that foreigners dictating my choices to be
repulsive. Apparently, Britain did too.

leo

[Bruce]

The US is a big trade block. So is China. India will be too. The UK,
or any other European country on its own, is too small for its own
good. That's why I want the EU. Not to tell us what the distance
between the steps of a ladder should be.

[Leonard Blaisdell]

In article <1rit9el6agoffng34...@4ax.com>, Bruce

<br...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> The US is a big trade block. So is China. India will be too. The UK,
> or any other European country on its own, is too small for its own
> good. That's why I want the EU. Not to tell us what the distance
> between the steps of a ladder should be.

Britain has powerful friends just across the Atlantic. Besides us,
don't you think that the whole Commonwealth would step up?
I'm all for supporting Friesland if it comes to that.

leo

[Bruce]

The Commonwealth doesn't mean much. Besides, if the Brits want to dig
a hole for themselves, why should anyone keep them from falling in? I
just wish them a soft landing.

Uhm, Friesland? :)

[Leonard Blaisdell]

In article <huot9etq4p45jqjd8...@4ax.com>, Bruce
<br...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Uhm, Friesland? :)

As close to the English language as you can get. I'm guessing they were
the first Anglo-Saxons. How could I not feel kinship? I'm a
Speak-English-ophile.
That is just another bigoted notion of mine. You seem to have done well
with the language. Are you Frisian?

leo

[Bruce]

No, but you're right. They probably sound the closest to English.

[Ophelia]

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message news:mXxnE.124222$XY3...@fx31.iad...

==

At last, someone who has it spot on!!

[GM]

Ed is a most sensible thinker, Ms. O....

;-D

--
Best
Greg

[GM]

I somewhat follow East/Central European politics, and much of the rise of the nationalist/nativist/right wing politics in that region (Hungary and Poland especially) is fueled by anti - Brussels fervor. These nations, who are relatively new to modern democracy (and are also traditionally socially conservative), are required to follow unpopular EU directives (on immigration, agriculture, etc.) that are forced on them, the locals have no say in these matters. To them, being "ruled" from Brussels is not dissimalar to the communist times, when they were "ruled" from Moscow...the term "EU Brotherhood" has the ring of the old "Socialist Brotherhood"...

Or somewhat akin here in the states to all the federal bureaucratic intervention on the US state and local levels...

;-)

--
Best
Greg

[Ophelia]

"GM" wrote in message
news:90a9bc32-80d3-41cb...@googlegroups.com...

Best
Greg

==

He got this one right:))

[Bruce]

On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 16:21:23 -0000, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Socialist?

[Ophelia]

"Bruce" wrote in message news:2hbv9e5hcg4e19g9r...@4ax.com...

==

You need to reread what Ed said:)

[Bruce]

On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 19:13:31 -0000, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

He wrote 'solialist'. Isn't that a typo for 'socialist'? I don't think
there is a socialist country in Europe.

[Ophelia]

"Bruce" wrote in message news:dfhv9e9fhl5ppq88u...@4ax.com...

==

LOL I missed that! No matter, I am fully in agreement with his
sentiment:))

[Bruce]

On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 20:41:26 -0000, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>

I don't want interference from socialists either.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Brussels seems to want to head that way. I can make my own decisions.

[Bruce]

I can understand that people want out of the EU, but the word
socialist is misplaced. Americans seem to think there are 3 political
directions: Republican, Democrat and Socialist. All of Europe is none
of the 3. The world's more complicated than you think.

[Ophelia]

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message news:9cRnE.191219$oz4....@fx04.iad...

==

Yes and so can we!!!

[Bruce]

On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 22:00:02 -0000, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>

You sure can. You might even become a socialist country after the
Brexit! :)

[Bruce]

On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 22:00:02 -0000, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>
>

Actually, considering the current political circus in your country,
are you sure you want to make your own decisions? Maybe it's better if
the EU makes them for you? :)

[lucreti...@fl.it]

On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 22:00:02 -0000, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>

Your friend Farage looks a real twit now! The new UKIP leader, even
worse.

[Hank Rogers]

I'm waiting for Popeye Katz to weigh in on this. You fools would do well
to wait for the more elite and distinguished members to get here.

Oh yeah ... the hell with brussels sprouts!

[Ed Pawlowski]

You always say what it is not. Why do you not say what it is? Educate
us.

[Bruce]

I think all western European countries are mixed. They have capitalist
traits and socialist traits. Some lean more one way and some the
other. But they're not socialist countries. You can get rich through
private enterprise in the UK, the Netherlands etc. If they were
socialist countries, your money would go to the state and be
distributed equally.

[Dave Smith]

That would require that he commit to an answer instead of just taking a
cheap pot shot.

[Ed Pawlowski]

OK, so Brussels is socialist leaning. They want a lot of control.

[Bruce]

The most extreme EU fans, which I'm not, want a federal system, where
the EU is like the US and the European countries are like the American
states. That's control, but if that's socialism, then the US is a
socialist country.

[graham]

Would you rather have the big companies in control?

[Ed Pawlowski]

They have been for decades. You need some balance as either extreme is
no good. I worked had for many years and was rewarded for it. I help
others that honestly need help but I'm not willing to help those that
don't want to work for their share.

[Bruce]

Do you know that American show "Malcolm in the Middle"? It should have
been called "Ed in the Middle". Ed's reply to everything: "Well, you
need some balance!"

>I worked had for many years and was rewarded for it. I help
>others that honestly need help but I'm not willing to help those that
>don't want to work for their share.

Anyway Ed, how's life in your socialist controlled country?

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 3/30/2019 11:17 PM, Bruce wrote:

>>>> OK, so Brussels is socialist leaning.  They want a lot of control.
>>>
>>> Would you rather have the big companies in control?
>>
>> They have been for decades. You need some balance as either extreme is
>> no good.
>
> Do you know that American show "Malcolm in the Middle"? It should have
> been called "Ed in the Middle". Ed's reply to everything: "Well, you
> need some balance!"

Yes, in many aspects of life. It has worked well.

>
>> I worked had for many years and was rewarded for it. I help
>> others that honestly need help but I'm not willing to help those that
>> don't want to work for their share.
>
> Anyway Ed, how's life in your socialist controlled country?
>

I'm very happy. Eat well, money in the bank, good healthcare that I pay
for through insurance. Wife recently spent five days in the hospital,
100% covered.

[Bruce]

That's not socialist, that's communist!

[Bruce]

I hope she's doing well.

[Ophelia]

"Bruce" wrote in message news:2mqv9ed853mefo87a...@4ax.com...

==

lol you are obsessed!!

[Bruce]

On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 09:45:35 +0100, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>

Lol, but with what?

[Ophelia]

"Bruce" wrote in message news:muqv9elnnk4h2tddt...@4ax.com...

==

*THWAP*

[Ophelia]

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message news:nzUnE.599079$UO4....@fx38.iad...

==

More like TOTAL control and that is the way they are heading!

[Bruce]

On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 09:46:22 +0100, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>

Lol, sorry, couldn't help myself.

[Bruce]

On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 09:51:27 +0100, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>

Ed's used to it. He lives in a state with limited self-control, under
a federal US government. All the Americans who are in favour of the
Brexit don't realise they haven't had their own exit yet.

[Ophelia]

"Bruce" wrote in message news:1nv0aet6o0v10gl77...@4ax.com...

==

I will leave you to sort yourself out <g>

[Bruce]

On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 09:57:52 +0100, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>
>
>"Bruce" wrote in message news:1nv0aet6o0v10gl77...@4ax.com...
>
>On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 09:45:35 +0100, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>

>>>Brussels seems to want to head that way. I can make my own decisions.
>>>
>>>==
>>>
>>> Yes and so can we!!!
>>
>>You sure can. You might even become a socialist country after the
>>Brexit! :)
>>
>>==
>>
>>lol you are obsessed!!
>
>Lol, but with what?
>
>==
>
> I will leave you to sort yourself out <g>

With Brexit? I keep seeing it on the news. And then Ed thinks it has
anything to do with socialism. Where does he pull that out of?

[Ophelia]

"Bruce" wrote in message news:o621aelusu7oohn8i...@4ax.com...

==

lol

[Ophelia]

"Bruce" wrote in message news:1451aehpul54btbkt...@4ax.com...

===

I can't speak for Ed, but I think it was because you mentioned socialism.

[Ophelia]

"Bruce" wrote in message news:a821ae5qhpvphalcl...@4ax.com...

==

I don't know how US politics work. I doubt I will either, I have enough
problems with our own!

[Cindy Hamilton]

Here's the one-second summary: Money talks.

Cindy Hamilton

[Gary]

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> On 2019-03-30 8:08 p.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 3/30/2019 5:51 PM, Bruce wrote:
> >> On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 17:28:39 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>

> >>> Brussels seems to want to head that way. I can make my own decisions.

> >>
> >> I can understand that people want out of the EU, but the word
> >> socialist is misplaced. Americans seem to think there are 3 political
> >> directions: Republican, Democrat and Socialist. All of Europe is none
> >> of the 3. The world's more complicated than you think.
> >>

> > You always say what it is not. Why do you not say what it is? Educate us.

>
> That would require that he commit to an answer instead of just taking a
> cheap pot shot.

Ease up on him Dave. That's what he's good at. ;)

[Gary]

Ophelia wrote:

>
> "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
> OK, so Brussels is socialist leaning. They want a lot of control.
>
> ==
>
> More like TOTAL control and that is the way they are heading!

"Can't we all just talk about cooking?" ;-D

[Gary]

Bruce wrote:
>
> All the Americans who are in favour of the
> Brexit don't realise they haven't had their own exit yet.

I can't imagine that many Americans even give a crap about
Brexit. Let them do whatever they think is best for them.
You shouldn't care either. Anyway, we Usains have our own
issues to deal with like odd trump and evil nancy.

[Ophelia]

"Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
news:4e3ccc4e-0a7f-4a97...@googlegroups.com...

==

I suppose money talks everywhere, but I guess it just l depends on how
much is allocated to what !

[Ophelia]

"Gary" wrote in message news:5CA0B532...@att.net...

===

YES PLEASE!!!!

[Dave Smith]

On 2019-03-31 8:10 a.m., Pamela wrote:
>
>> I'm very happy. Eat well, money in the bank, good healthcare that I pay
>> for through insurance. Wife recently spent five days in the hospital,
>> 100% covered.
>

> It's strange you feel the need to mention hospital costs.
>
> Nobody in the UK would give the cost of a hospital stay a second thought.
>
> Same goes for most developed countries.

Americans seem to view government run health care as a nasty form of
communism. They don't feel that way about their transportation
infrastructure, farm subsidies and education system. Health care is a
very profitable business in the US and there is a lot of lobbying to
convince people that a government system would lead to ruination.

I have had surgery twice in the last 8 years. My by-pass surgery, valued
at $10,000, cost me nothing. I know I pay for it through taxes, but the
fact remains that I did not get a bill for the surgery or for the 8 days
spent in the hospital. The same surgery in the US costs $20,000. A few
years ago I had emergency gall bladder surgery and spent 3 nights in the
hospital and there was no bill.

[Cindy Hamilton]

On Sunday, March 31, 2019 at 9:52:04 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2019-03-31 8:10 a.m., Pamela wrote:
> >
> >> I'm very happy. Eat well, money in the bank, good healthcare that I pay
> >> for through insurance. Wife recently spent five days in the hospital,
> >> 100% covered.
> >
> > It's strange you feel the need to mention hospital costs.
> >
> > Nobody in the UK would give the cost of a hospital stay a second thought.
> >
> > Same goes for most developed countries.
>
> Americans seem to view government run health care as a nasty form of
> communism. They don't feel that way about their transportation
> infrastructure, farm subsidies and education system.

Quite a few people feel we're not getting our ROI on education and that
government should get out of the business of education.


Cindy Hamilton

[Dave Smith]

Sure. There is nothing like keeping poor people uneducated to ensure
they will always be poor. Take an example from places like Central
America and Africa where bored and uneducated children hang out in
gangs. Then their fellow citizens head north to the US looking for
sanctuary.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 3/31/2019 8:10 AM, Pamela wrote:

> On 04:54 31 Mar 2019, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> On 3/30/2019 11:17 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>

>>>>>> OK, so Brussels is socialist leaning.  They want a lot of control.

> It's strange you feel the need to mention hospital costs.
>
> Nobody in the UK would give the cost of a hospital stay a second thought.
>
> Same goes for most developed countries.
>

I mention it because it is a hot button and gets a few people agitated.
Near as I can tell, no country has a perfect system. Not to mention that
most people have no idea of the true cost.

Near as I can tell, in some of the countries with "free" healthcare my
cost would be about $300/month more than what I pay now.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Our education system started going to crap in the late 60s. One reason
is the Vietnam War. If you were in school to become a teacher, you
could avoid the draft. A lot of men went into education to avoid the
draft and as they infiltrated the system, they became administrators.
Discipline in the classroom went to crap.

Teacher pay has improved, but that is only one piece of making the
system work. It is a tough job and difficult to get the well qualified
people.

[Bruce]

On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 12:57:01 +0100, Pamela <pamela...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 02:23 31 Mar 2019, Bruce wrote:

>
>> On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 21:18:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>>
>>>On 3/30/2019 8:30 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 20:08:01 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/30/2019 5:51 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 17:28:39 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/30/2019 3:40 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 19:13:31 -0000, "Ophelia"
>>>>>>>> <OphEl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Bruce" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:2hbv9e5hcg4e19g9r...@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 16:21:23 -0000, "Ophelia"
>>>>>>>>> <OphEl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "GM" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:90a9bc32-80d3-41cb...@googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>OK, so Brussels is socialist leaning. They want a lot of control.
>>
>> The most extreme EU fans, which I'm not, want a federal system, where
>> the EU is like the US and the European countries are like the American
>> states. That's control, but if that's socialism, then the US is a
>> socialist country.
>
>Socialist has a rather different meaning in America compared to Europe and
>perhaps Australia too.
>
>Shaw said, "The English and the Americans are two peoples divided by a
>common language".

Yes, Americans seem to say socialist when the mean social. And boy,
are they against social. It's all me, me, me.

[Bruce]

I wasn't commenting on the brexit, but on the word socialist.

[Bruce]

On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 13:07:11 +0100, Pamela <pamela...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 23:22 30 Mar 2019, Bruce wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 22:00:02 -0000, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>

>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message news:9cRnE.191219$oz4....@fx04.iad...

>>>
>>>On 3/30/2019 3:40 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 19:13:31 -0000, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bruce" wrote in message
>>>>> news:2hbv9e5hcg4e19g9r...@4ax.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 16:21:23 -0000, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> He got this one right:))
>>>>>
>>>>> Socialist?
>>>>>
>>>>> ==
>>>>>
>>>>> You need to reread what Ed said:)
>>>>
>>>> He wrote 'solialist'. Isn't that a typo for 'socialist'? I don't think
>>>> there is a socialist country in Europe.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Brussels seems to want to head that way. I can make my own decisions.
>>>

>>>==
>>>
>>> Yes and so can we!!!
>>

>> Actually, considering the current political circus in your country,
>> are you sure you want to make your own decisions? Maybe it's better if
>> the EU makes them for you? :)
>

>In the referendum Scotland was 62% in favour of remaining in the EU and
>that may be higher now.

But they found it more important to stay in the UK.

[Bruce]

Uhm, I DID answer the question, but let's just pretend I didn't. It's
more fun that way.

[Cindy Hamilton]

The parents have to want the system to work. If they view the schools
as free babysitting, it won't work.

As usually, it's a multivariate problem and a lot of people can only
comprehend single-variable answers.

Cindy Hamilton

[Bruce]

On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 10:16:45 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 3/31/2019 8:10 AM, Pamela wrote:
>> On 04:54 31 Mar 2019, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/30/2019 11:17 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>

>>>>>>> OK, so Brussels is socialist leaning.  They want a lot of control.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would you rather have the big companies in control?
>>>>>
>>>>> They have been for decades. You need some balance as either extreme is
>>>>> no good.
>>>>
>>>> Do you know that American show "Malcolm in the Middle"? It should have
>>>> been called "Ed in the Middle". Ed's reply to everything: "Well, you
>>>> need some balance!"
>>>
>>> Yes, in many aspects of life. It has worked well.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I worked had for many years and was rewarded for it. I help
>>>>> others that honestly need help but I'm not willing to help those that
>>>>> don't want to work for their share.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway Ed, how's life in your socialist controlled country?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm very happy. Eat well, money in the bank, good healthcare that I pay
>>> for through insurance. Wife recently spent five days in the hospital,
>>> 100% covered.
>>
>> It's strange you feel the need to mention hospital costs.
>>
>> Nobody in the UK would give the cost of a hospital stay a second thought.
>>
>> Same goes for most developed countries.
>>
>
>I mention it because it is a hot button and gets a few people agitated.
>Near as I can tell, no country has a perfect system.

But no western country is as unable to organise healthcare as the US.

[Janet]

In article <pfr1ae19uksmnpk46...@4ax.com>,
br...@invalid.invalid says...

> >In the referendum Scotland was 62% in favour of remaining in the EU and
> >that may be higher now.
>
> But they found it more important to stay in the UK.

Two different referendums.


In the Scottish Independence referendum Scotland voted to stay in
the UK, largely because that meant Scotland staying in the EU.

When it came to the EU referendum, Scotland again voted to stay in the
EU.

Janet UK

[Bruce]

On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 18:50:21 +0100, Janet <nob...@home.net> wrote:

>In article <pfr1ae19uksmnpk46...@4ax.com>,
>br...@invalid.invalid says...
>
>> >In the referendum Scotland was 62% in favour of remaining in the EU and
>> >that may be higher now.
>>
>> But they found it more important to stay in the UK.
>
> Two different referendums.

With that outcome.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 3/31/2019 11:54 AM, Pamela wrote:

> On 15:16 31 Mar 2019, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> On 3/31/2019 8:10 AM, Pamela wrote:
>>> On 04:54 31 Mar 2019, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/30/2019 11:17 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>

>>>>>>>> OK, so Brussels is socialist leaning.  They want a lot of

>>>>>>>> control.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would you rather have the big companies in control?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They have been for decades. You need some balance as either extreme
>>>>>> is no good.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you know that American show "Malcolm in the Middle"? It should
>>>>> have been called "Ed in the Middle". Ed's reply to everything: "Well,
>>>>> you need some balance!"
>>>>
>>>> Yes, in many aspects of life. It has worked well.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I worked had for many years and was rewarded for it. I help others
>>>>>> that honestly need help but I'm not willing to help those that
>>>>>> don't want to work for their share.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway Ed, how's life in your socialist controlled country?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm very happy. Eat well, money in the bank, good healthcare that I
>>>> pay for through insurance. Wife recently spent five days in the
>>>> hospital, 100% covered.
>>>
>>> It's strange you feel the need to mention hospital costs.
>>>
>>> Nobody in the UK would give the cost of a hospital stay a second
>>> thought.
>>>
>>> Same goes for most developed countries.
>>>
>>
>> I mention it because it is a hot button and gets a few people agitated.
>> Near as I can tell, no country has a perfect system.
>

> Certainly not America from what I hear.

>
>> Not to mention that most people have no idea of the true cost.
>>
>> Near as I can tell, in some of the countries with "free" healthcare my
>> cost would be about $300/month more than what I pay now.
>

> What do you mean by "free" but $300/month more?
>

Nothing is "free". Many people tout the benefits of the healthcare
system in non-USA as being so good because they don't pay for anything
and everyone is covered.

Of course, having coverage for everyone is good. It is paid for from
taxes, not insurance premiums. In Canada it is about 10% of income, in
Italy about 15%. I pay less than that.

Our system is not the best based on per capita spending though. We do
need something better.

[Ed Pawlowski]

The world has changed, it is not the 1950s any more. Very few stay at
home moms. Little parent time to help the kids with school.

Seems to me, the typical family of four or five had a nicer house, two
cars, better vacations, lots of technology compared to when we grew up.
But, the downside is, kids go to daycare instead of coming home to mom.
Then they go to organized sports and the like instead of playing with
the kid down the block or with family.

We did homework at the dining room table. If we needed help, mom was in
the kitchen cooking and she could help. Now, the kid is in daycare and
mom is commuting from work. More single parent families too.

[Cindy Hamilton]

I grew up in a single-parent home.

My mother worked, bought her own house, and made it clear that my job
was to excel in school. When I was small she left me with the neighbor
across the street, my grandparents did some babysitting, and she
made other arrangements after I started school.

Cindy Hamilton

[lucreti...@fl.it]

On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 16:57:04 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 3/31/2019 11:54 AM, Pamela wrote:
>> On 15:16 31 Mar 2019, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/31/2019 8:10 AM, Pamela wrote:
>>>> On 04:54 31 Mar 2019, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/30/2019 11:17 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> OK, so Brussels is socialist leaning.  They want a lot of

In Canada it is raised through sales tax, ergo those who can buy more,
pay more. Those who buy little are still covered. I just totally
distrust insurance companies, never found anything likeable about
them, so sales tax seems preferable.

[Bruce]

And what if I'm rich, have bought a lot, paid a lot of sales tax but
never need healthcare in my life? Then I'll have paid for other
people's healthcare. That's communism!

[Bruce]

On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 23:01:45 +0100, Pamela <pamela...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 01:56 30 Mar 2019, Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
>
>> In article <gkbt9etfvk50rdork...@4ax.com>, Bruce
>> <br...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> It's fun for old Brits. It gives them an ego boost. It's bad for young
>>> Brits, because they're going to lose a lot of employment opportunities.
>>> But too many young people couldn't be bothered to get off their asses
>>> and vote to stay. Now they're paying the price :)
>>
>> Bruce, Brexit hasn't happened yet. Time will tell and President Trump,
>> the most hated man on Usenet, will offer full U.S. support to Great
>> Britain when it does. Bet on it.
>>
>> leo
>
>When it comes for Trump to deliver on his offer of trade deals for the UK
>after it leaves the EU, he will claim it's unfair to America and walk
>away.

Yes. Trump's the last person I'd rely on to save my ass after the
Brexit.

[lucreti...@fl.it]

You've got that right!

[lucreti...@fl.it]

On Mon, 01 Apr 2019 09:17:27 +1100, Bruce <br...@invalid.invalid>

OK, I don't care what it is called, but I like the reality.

[graham]

Bollocks! Squared!

[Dave Smith]

On 2019-03-31 4:57 p.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>>
>> What do you mean by "free" but $300/month more?
>>
>
> Nothing is "free".  Many people tout the benefits of the healthcare
> system in non-USA as being so good because they don't pay for anything
> and everyone is covered.
>
> Of course, having coverage for everyone is good.  It is paid for from
> taxes, not insurance premiums.  In Canada it is about 10% of income, in
> Italy about 15%.  I pay less than that.
>
> Our system is not the best based on per capita spending though.  We do
> need something better.

I don't know how you calculated that. I checked out the cost of health
care in Canada and the US. In Canada we spend about $3800 per capita on
health care compared to $6500 in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_healthcare_systems_in_Canada_and_the_United_States

[Dave Smith]

It sounds like insurance to me. I pay a lot of money every year for car
insurance. I have not had an accident in more than 40 years. My wife had
a minor accident a couple years ago, about $2500 worth. I have paid
them many times more than they paid me, but they have been using my
premiums to pay for the claims made by other customers. i guess that is
communism too.

[dsi1]

They are kind of scumbags. The best way to deal with them is to threaten to hold them liable if you lose your livelihood due to their not paying a claim in a timely fashion. That usually gets their attention. :)

[Bruce]

Me too. I don't think it's communism.

[Bruce]

I agree :)

[Bruce]

Maybe it wasn't clear, but I was joking. I'd love to pay for health
insurance and never need it.

[Ed Pawlowski]

You were fortunate to have a mother interested and cared about your
future. Not easy being a single parent either, she must have been a
tough woman. Good for her.

[Ed Pawlowski]

The spending per capita is not what you pay though. If there is a
family of four you can say the spending based on your family is $3800 x
4. If there is only one wage earner, that person is contributing
accordingly and a person earning 30k a year pays less than a person
earning 200k a year.

[tert in seattle]

gregorymorr...@gmail.com writes:

>Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> On 3/29/2019 7:08 PM, GM wrote:
>> > So on even the "mainstream" network nooze here in the states I am
>seeing huge and FRANTIC crowds in the UK re: BREXIT...
>> >
>> > Please chime in, tell US wot YOU think...!!!
>> >
>> > ;-D
>> >
>>
>> I'd not want to follow some of the silly rules from a group of
>> solialists in Brussels.
>>
>> I don't know enough to say if it is good or bad right now for the Brits,
>> but I can see why they would want out.
>
>

>I somewhat follow East/Central European politics, and much of the rise
>of the nationalist/nativist/right wing politics in that region (Hungary
>and Poland especially) is fueled by anti - Brussels fervor. These
>nations, who are relatively new to modern democracy (and are also
>traditionally socially conservative), are required to follow unpopular
>EU directives (on immigration, agriculture, etc.) that are forced on
>them, the locals have no say in these matters. To them, being "ruled"
>from Brussels is not dissimalar to the communist times, when they were
>"ruled" from Moscow...the term "EU Brotherhood" has the ring of the old
>"Socialist Brotherhood"...
>
>Or somewhat akin here in the states to all the federal bureaucratic
>intervention on the US state and local levels...
>
>;-)
>


there is this thing called the European Parliament - it's a representative
system, not unlike our own representative democracy in the United States

the UK will suffer greatly in a hard brexit, and their own government's
research has shown that the economy will do more poorly in any situation
other than the status quo

but it seems that evidence takes a back seat to "knowing what I think"
or not needing experts or whatever people like to say at the barber shop
etc

the whole situation is a sad outcome of David Cameron's cowardice and
ineptitude, followed by intentional misinformation campaigns fuelled in
no small part by those who would benefit from a breakup of the EU, playing
on people's fears of losing control and being overrun (literally) by
immigrants

[Dave Smith]

Perhaps they see a long term benefit. The UK, being one of wealthier
members of the EU, has been subsidizing some of weaker members. Without
their share, the other western European countries will have to shell out
more. The UK was fed up with the stream of migrants who, having landed
in EU countries were able to move freely to the UK, and they already had
enough people on unemployment and welfare. I would not rule out a
collapse of the EU followed by a rebirth of the union and including the
UK, but with terms they find more acceptable.

[Bruce]

On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 16:15:45 +0000 (UTC), tert in seattle
<te...@ftupet.com> wrote:

>there is this thing called the European Parliament - it's a representative
>system, not unlike our own representative democracy in the United States
>
>the UK will suffer greatly in a hard brexit, and their own government's
>research has shown that the economy will do more poorly in any situation
>other than the status quo
>
>but it seems that evidence takes a back seat to "knowing what I think"
>or not needing experts or whatever people like to say at the barber shop
>etc
>
>the whole situation is a sad outcome of David Cameron's cowardice and
>ineptitude, followed by intentional misinformation campaigns fuelled in
>no small part by those who would benefit from a breakup of the EU, playing
>on people's fears of losing control and being overrun (literally) by
>immigrants

Hey, that's the first time a non UK'er in this newsgroup looks further
than "Brexit, yeah! You're smart getting out! Who wants socialist
interference! Yeah!"

[tert in seattle]

surely the UK derives some benefits from being a net contributor to the
EU purse but the 5-6 billion euro gap annually will be dwarfed by the
GDP hit, from costs in tariffs to disinvestment

if "they" were thinking long term they failed miserably to prepare for
the next few years if there is no deal

[Dave Smith]

On 2019-04-01 4:48 p.m., tert in seattle wrote:

> adavid...@sympatico.ca writes:

>> Perhaps they see a long term benefit. The UK, being one of wealthier
>> members of the EU, has been subsidizing some of weaker members. Without
>> their share, the other western European countries will have to shell out
>> more. The UK was fed up with the stream of migrants who, having landed
>> in EU countries were able to move freely to the UK, and they already had
>> enough people on unemployment and welfare. I would not rule out a
>> collapse of the EU followed by a rebirth of the union and including the
>> UK, but with terms they find more acceptable.
>
> surely the UK derives some benefits from being a net contributor to the
> EU purse but the 5-6 billion euro gap annually will be dwarfed by the
> GDP hit, from costs in tariffs to disinvestment
>
> if "they" were thinking long term they failed miserably to prepare for
> the next few years if there is no deal

I was just speculating one what their long term goal was. I know that a
lot of them were unhappy with the arrangement and having to follow EU
rules in everything from agriculture to manufacturing. The two key
issues seem to be sovereignty and immigration.

For some reason, leaving the EU is going to cost them close to 40Billion
pounds.

[Bruce]

"One can't put a price on one's dignity!"

[graham]

Which is about a third of the amount that Harper added to the national
debt while he was PM.

[Dave Smith]

I didn't know that he had a horse in that race.

[GM]

It's simple, tert...the US could annex the UK as a 51st state or some kinda "Dominion"...how cool would that be...!!!???

--
Best
Greg

[Bruce]

Out of the frying pan into the fire!

[graham]

You're being obtuse as usual, I see.

[dsi1]

Perhaps we could become a part of the UK. The Brits would probably find that to suit them better. Heck man, we even speak the language already - well, mostly. We got a flag all ready for the new UK. Tut-tut cheerio!

https://www.theflagshop.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/h/a/hawaii-flag-std.jpg

[lucreti...@fl.it]

And now there is a Harper lookalike with a permanent sneer on his face
:(

[GM]

A Monday joke for ya, graham:

"What would happen if the desert became a socialist country? — Nothing for a while… then the sand becomes scarce..."

;-)

--
Best
Greg

[Janet]

In article <XBvoE.3$bA...@fx26.iad>, adavid...@sympatico.ca says...
>
someone wrote

The UK was fed up with the stream of migrants who, having landed
> >> in EU countries were able to move freely to the UK,

The two key
> issues seem to be sovereignty and immigration.

This is a complete confusion of two completely separate,unrelated
issues.

Migrants from outside the EU, DO NOT and never have had the right to
move freely to the UK.

Free movement rights apply only to EU citizens of EU member states.

Janet UK