Can't afford to buy meat!!
Billy
real tear jerker….but NPR NEVER published the picture of this
mother/daughter duo.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/npr-for-some-ohioans-meat-out-of-reach
I am so poor that I can't even afford to by meat to eat.
Yeah…sure……….you spent all your f'ing money on Klondike bars!!
Mark Thorson
The reader comments are at least as funny as the story.
Your NPR tax dollars at work . . .
Dave Smith
Billy wrote:
OMG, they're like 400 lbs each. I had to chuckle when they said "Gosh, this
is horrible. It's just like the famines in Ethiopia or Biafra." Each one of
them is the size of 5 or 6 Biafrans.
Dave Smith
I especially liked this one:
A lot of people have told me, ‘Why don’t your daughter have a kid?’”
You have to ask why? There ain’t enough alcohol in all of explored
space…
Your NPR tax dollars at work . . .
Dang. I live right on the fringe for the NPR out of Buffalo and it
comes in a little to fuzzy to enjoy. I used to listen to it a lot at work
where I was closer to the border.
amandaF
> This has to be the saddest story NPR has ever published. It is a
> real tear jerker….but NPR NEVER published the picture of this
> mother/daughter duo.
>
>
> I am so poor that I can't even afford to by meat to eat.
> Yeah…sure……….you spent all your f'ing money on Klondike bars!!
How do you know that they bought those Klondike bars? I once gave a
ride to a ldy living in shelter or drug recovery program - I met her
at the municipal court where I went to pay my fine for ticket and
heard her asking for bus direction (she was wearing work uniform) to
go to work and learned her story - who was way overweight from eating
donated canned food.
Goomba
- who was way overweight from eating
> donated canned food.
A lifetime's worth?
dejablues
"Billy" <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
news:s10i849femcobn7vd...@4ax.com...
> This has to be the saddest story NPR has ever published. It is a
> mother/daughter duo.
Um, yes, they did:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92592545
Dave Smith
Actually, there were pictures in the site linked by the OP.
I just went back and checked the two links again. Yours does not have the
comments, which are worth reading. Almost everyone of the reader comments
ridicules the women. And rightly so. They have a lot of gall to suggest
that their situation is like the famine in Biafra or Ethiopia when it is
so painfully obvious that these women are a long, long, long way from
starving.
dejablues
"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:48892A65...@sympatico.ca...
Actually, they could be obese, but malnourished. Eating only cheap carbs
will leave their bodies starving for nutrients.
jmcquown
True. And at least they aren't buying into the suggestion that her daughter
have a kid. For what? A few more welfare bucks? You still have to feed
the child. If they think they're starving *now* why would anyone suggest
they add another mouth to the mix?
Jill
Nancy Young
> True. And at least they aren't buying into the suggestion that her
> daughter have a kid. For what? A few more welfare bucks? You still
> have to feed the child. If they think they're starving *now* why
> would anyone suggest they add another mouth to the mix?
I don't understand it, either, but it seems to open up a whole
new world of benefits for people.
So, if they are complaining they can't afford meat, go
vegetarian. Lots of people cut down on meat when times are
tough. I don't think my mother served fried rice so often because
there was a roast beef sitting in the refrigerator. Not that you
want to eat fried rice all the time, but there are many vegetable
dishes they could make.
Not piling on, there are plenty of people knocking them, just
thinking they need a change of mindset if they are complaining
about meat.
nancy
Dave Smith
>
> >> I just went back and checked the two links again. Yours does not have the
> > comments, which are worth reading. Almost everyone of the reader comments
> > ridicules the women. And rightly so. They have a lot of gall to suggest
> > that their situation is like the famine in Biafra or Ethiopia when it is
> > so painfully obvious that these women are a long, long, long way from
> > starving.
>
> Actually, they could be obese, but malnourished. Eating only cheap carbs
> will leave their bodies starving for nutrients.
Did you see the picture? Those women must weight 400 pounds each. They may be
malnourished but they sure as hell aren't starving. They have a lot of nerve to
compare their situation to Biafra or Ethiopia.
Chile Fiend
news:s10i849femcobn7vd...@4ax.com:
So we now have the 28th amendmen to the US constitution?
***The right to eat meat.***
Kathleen
>
> True. And at least they aren't buying into the suggestion that her
> daughter have a kid. For what? A few more welfare bucks? You still
> have to feed the child. If they think they're starving *now* why would
> anyone suggest they add another mouth to the mix?
>
Dunno. But my mom came of age in the generation where educated,
prosperous women didn't serve as dairy cows. And as an RN, she was put
off by those "welfare sires" who encouraged their "dams" to breastfeed,
to the point of literally holding the babies to breast in the hospital
beds, in her opinion, solely to avoid to cost of formula.
These days we call those women nuturing mothers, and those men,
supportive spouses.
What comes around, goes around.
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>Did you see the picture? Those women must weight 400 pounds each. They may be
>malnourished but they sure as hell aren't starving. They have a lot of nerve to
>compare their situation to Biafra or Ethiopia.
Being totally blind, I can't see any pictures. But, I doubt those women
would lose weight healthily by starving. At a certain point, they'd be
physically incapable of getting out of bed if they starved for weeks or
months. People seem to be suggesting that they eat too much, which seems
impossible given their unfortunate circumstances. Why this antipathy
towards the poor? In the piece, Gloria Nunez describes her middle-class
working husband. But, we all know those factory jobs are growing ever
more scarce. Why don't some of you affluent people who look down upon
the poor actually contribute to their improvement by donating vehicles
and funding child care so they can get to work? What about gardening
supplies so they can grow fresh fruits and vegetables in their housing
complexes? What about cash subsidies or gift cards from organic
groceries that could deliver fresh produce to their homes?
Orlando
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>So we now have the 28th amendmen to the US constitution?
>***The right to eat meat.***
If the wealthy are throwing meat away while the poor hunger for it, we
need a new constitution.
Orlando
Billy
<of...@verizon.net> wrote:
>If the wealthy are throwing meat away while the poor hunger for it, we
>need a new constitution.
Bullshit......fat people make decisions to be fat.....thin people make
decisions to be thin.
..........oh...she is so sweet...but she had a glandular problem.
Yeah...right............silava glands
Dave Smith
> Being totally blind, I can't see any pictures. But, I doubt those women
> would lose weight healthily by starving. At a certain point, they'd be
> physically incapable of getting out of bed if they starved for weeks or
> months. People seem to be suggesting that they eat too much, which seems
> impossible given their unfortunate circumstances. Why this antipathy
> towards the poor?
I don' t think it is antipathy for the poor as much as it is for these two very
large women who compared their situation to the famines in Ethiopia or Biafra. They
aren't starving. They are gigantic. The mother has never worked and never finished
high school. She claims to have been left depressed and unable to work since she
was involved in a car accident 17 years ago. Being 40, that means the accident
happened when she was 23, well past the age when she should have finished high
school, and even after leaving school she never worked, even when she could have.
.
> In the piece, Gloria Nunez describes her middle-class
> working husband.
Sorry, but it doe snot describe her husband as a middle class working class. It says
that her mother's husband worked at GM.
> But, we all know those factory jobs are growing ever
> more scarce. Why don't some of you affluent people who look down upon
> the poor actually contribute to their improvement by donating vehicles
> and funding child care so they can get to work?
Sure.... we should all give up our hard earned money to pay for day care for someone
who had a kid they can't afford to raise. I know I know... cycle of poverty and all
that, but for crissakes , sometimes people have to take responsibility for their
choices in life. You can't go out and get yourself pregnant and hope to live on
welfare and then expect that someone else would support you and your kid while you
go back to school to get enough education to get a job.
> What about gardening
> supplies so they can grow fresh fruits and vegetables in their housing
> complexes? What about cash subsidies or gift cards from organic
> groceries that could deliver fresh produce to their homes?
Do those women look like they eat vegetables, or like they would go out and work in
a garden?
You would have to provide the tools and transportation and probably the work.
Dave Smith
>
>
> It's far from clear to me that they deserve any of the knocking. This
> story was not originated by NPR or any real journalist.
I beg your pardon, but the story is on the NPR web site and includes an
audio of the interview with the woman on All Things Considered.
dsi1
> OMG, they're like 400 lbs each. I had to chuckle when they said "Gosh, this
> is horrible. It's just like the famines in Ethiopia or Biafra." Each one of
> them is the size of 5 or 6 Biafrans.
>
I reckon neither one's a lick over 350 lbs. But there's no need to get
rilled up at either one of those gals since neither of 'em said "that
it's just like the famines in Ethiopia or Biafra." Personally, I had to
chuckle about all the good people out there hating them poor folks. :-)
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>Bullshit......fat people make decisions to be fat.....thin people make
>decisions to be thin.
Your assumption is that weight is solely governed by will. If that were
the case, most fat people would will themselves into perpetual thinness.
Honestly, the obese spend inordinate amounts of time and energy dieting,
working out and worrying about every morsel they eat. In some cases, fat
people lose more weight when they stop obsessing over food and fad
diets. More importantly, why this intense hostility against the poor and
overweight? Judging from your comments, these Ohio women don't deserve
any help because they're poor, undereducated and fat. Would they deserve
more sympathy if they were equally poor and undereducated but thin?
Orlando
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>I don't think it is antipathy for the poor as much as it is for these two very
>large women who compared their situation to the famines in Ethiopia or Biafra. They
>aren't starving. They are gigantic.
The daughter described how her sister often helps her out when she runs
out of food, which suggests near starvation to me.
>The mother has never worked and never finished
>high school. She claims to have been left depressed and unable to work since she
>was involved in a car accident 17 years ago. Being 40, that means the accident
>happened when she was 23, well past the age when she should have finished high
>school, and even after leaving school she never worked, even when she could have.
Okay, let's just come out and say it: the bitch is lazy. Does that mean
we, in the most affluent country on Earth, should leave the lazy to die?
>Sure.... we should all give up our hard earned money to pay for day care for someone
>who had a kid they can't afford to raise. I know I know... cycle of poverty and all
>that, but for crissakes , sometimes people have to take responsibility for their
>choices in life. You can't go out and get yourself pregnant and hope to live on
>welfare and then expect that someone else would support you and your kid while you
>go back to school to get enough education to get a job.
You're ignoring how much our culture encourages people to have
premarital sex and attaches status to women's sex appeal and men's
variety of sexual partners. In short, our culture encourages everyone to
screw way too much, and this obsession impacts the poor more negatively
than the middle or upper classes. So, it's not enough to blame these
people for having too many babies; we need to examine the constantly
sexual messages they're getting in the pop culture that surrounds them.
More importantly, the poor need alternatives to pop culture models not
made for their situations. They need to see role models of frugal people
who consume little and only have sex without protection when they're
truly able to afford children.
>Do those women look like they eat vegetables, or like they would go out and work in
>a garden?
If their food stamps only allowed them to buy fresh produce, they'd
learn to like it or starve.
>You would have to provide the tools and transportation and probably the work.
But, at least all that would make them independent small scale food
growers and improve their diets.
Orlando
Edwin Pawlowski
"Orlando Enrique Fiol" <of...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> Okay, let's just come out and say it: the bitch is lazy. Does that mean
> we, in the most affluent country on Earth, should leave the lazy to die?
>
If only laziness is the problem, then yes. If you can't get your fat ass up
to the buffet because you are lazy, I'm not going to bring you a platter.
Disability is something else.
Edwin Pawlowski
"dsi1" <ds...@spamworld.com> wrote in message
>
> Personally, I had to chuckle about all the good people out there hating
> them poor folks. :-)
Only poor fat people that complain they don't get enough charity to buy
meat. They can still buy Shredded Wheat if they want to.
Giusi
news:aKxik.18588$Ri....@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com...
Ignorance is a disability. There are people posting here I think are
disabled by ignorance and closed mindedness. There are people here who are
quite overweight, too.
While those two women are shockingly fat, they are an expression of
everything currently worrying the US. They are not educated for the current
work situation, they probably eat too much trashy food and don't know any
better, their entertainment is passive, they are not served by public
transport in spite of living in the projects-- whose great idea would that
have been?-- and most of all everything is someone else's fault.
I surmise you could find tens of thousands of equally confused and
unseccessful lives if you look and that the figures will go up. They just
won't all be so fat.
So far not one person, except tagentially Orlando, has thought how did this
happen and how does our society create it. And yet the latest sociology
studies show everything you see here in greater percentage in younger
generations. America is fat, she has an entitlement attitude, she doesn't
exercise, she doesn't support public transportation, and she blames others
for her problems.
dsi1
> "dsi1" <d...@spamworld.com> wrote in message
We must have all read different articles. I didn't read no article
about those gals saying they wuz starving nor did I read one where
they wuz begging for charity so they could buy some pork chops. Make
no mistake about this - the only reason we talking at all is because
of a photo of 2 chubby chicks. Otherwise, nobody would give a crap
about what the NPR series is really about: the tough times that
America is going through. BTW, the series is called "Feeling the
Economic Pinch."
You'll get to gloat even more in the coming months as more Americans
lose their jobs and their buying power and have trouble with
transportation because of the high price of oil. Well, that's just the
breaks, ain't it? :-)
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>If only laziness is the problem, then yes. If you can't get your fat ass up
>to the buffet because you are lazy, I'm not going to bring you a platter.
>Disability is something else.
The point is that if we chastise these women for not working and being
too fat, the next logical step is to forget about them and leave them to
die in misery. Call me a pinko commy, but I'm just not prepared to
inherit that karma.
Orlando
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>Only poor fat people that complain they don't get enough charity to buy
>meat. They can still buy Shredded Wheat if they want to.
I agree that meat eating is not a necessity. However, most Americans
don't know how to eat a nutritionally balanced vegetarian diet with
cheap ingredients because it involves lots of cooking from scratch,
which is difficult when poor people are trying to maximize their time
either working or perpetually looking for work. It's easy to point
fingers and blame those people because it absolves the blamers from
doing anything to help.
Orlando
Nancy Young
That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
nancy
Billy
wrote:
>Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
Not in my book Nancy.....you say the truth. Truth can be brutal and
people don't like to hear it.
After all, "It's not MY fault.....blah, blah, blah.....
Goomba
Gloria Nunez describes her middle-class
> working husband. But, we all know those factory jobs are growing ever
> more scarce. Why don't some of you affluent people who look down upon
> the poor actually contribute to their improvement by donating vehicles
> and funding child care so they can get to work? What about gardening
> supplies so they can grow fresh fruits and vegetables in their housing
> complexes? What about cash subsidies or gift cards from organic
> groceries that could deliver fresh produce to their homes?
>
> Orlando
What about getting a job?
Factory jobs never seemed very "middle class" to me? But in actuality,
there is no firm definition of middle class. Apparently if asked, about
10 percent of the public will say they are lower class, and something
like 10 percent will say they're upper class, but the rest of us place
ourselves in the "middle class"
Hmmmmmmmm.... ?
Nancy Young
> Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
> Gloria Nunez describes her middle-class
>> working husband. But, we all know those factory jobs are growing ever
>> more scarce. Why don't some of you affluent people who look down upon
>> the poor actually contribute to their improvement by donating
>> vehicles and funding child care so they can get to work?
I'm not talking about the two women in the article, but the above
line made me laugh. You should have seen the screaming when my
state did just that for welfare recipients so they could work for a
living.
> What about getting a job?
> Factory jobs never seemed very "middle class" to me?
I think in the auto industry they were. Then they did their best
to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
nancy
Sheldon
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> > "dsi1" <d...@spamworld.com> wrote in message
>
> >> �Personally, I had to chuckle about all the good people out there
> >> hating them poor folks. :-)
>
> > Only poor fat people that complain they don't get enough charity to
> > buy meat. �They can still buy Shredded Wheat if they want to.
>
> That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
> their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
Thinking vegetarian fare is less costly is a myth... anyone who thinks
fresh fruits and vegetables cost less than meat hasn't been to the
produce section recently. It costs less to eat meat, so long as one
is not thinking rib roast, t-bone, spare ribs, lobster, and wild
salmon is the only meat. The simple fact is that many common fresh
fruits and vegetables cost more by two and three times than the more
healthful (leaner) meat cuts. Consider that the more nutritious fresh
fruits and vegetables are mostly water, therefore to consume enough to
feel sated will cost significantly more than consuming a more balanced
menu of say round steak stretched with starchy vegetables (like
legumes) and using smaller amounts of the more nutritious but much
pricier fresh produce (like red bell pepper). And it's not so much
what as how, boiled/baked spuds are nowhere near as fattening as
fries... a 10 oz bag of vegetarian potato chips costs twice the price
of a pound of top round... every stupid market I've seen devotes at
least as much space to chips as meat... someone is buying all those
chips. The one dietary fact that's not a myth is that that vast
majority are fat because they consume too much fat (vegetable fats are
just as fattening as animal fats). You're sure not going to save
money and maintain a healthful weight if you eat lots of spinach, not
when it's creamed with lots of butter or sauted with bacon fat. Don't
yoose find it strange how it's the obese who bitch about how today's
pork chops are too lean. I see the 300 pounders buy a pint of fresh
blueberries for $4, good for them, but they ruin it all when that
spend another $4 on that can of rediwhip.
Nancy Young
> On Jul 26, 8:12�am, "Nancy Young" <rjy...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
>> their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
>
> Thinking vegetarian fare is less costly is a myth... anyone who thinks
> fresh fruits and vegetables cost less than meat hasn't been to the
> produce section recently.
Check out the canned and frozen aisle.
nancy
Dave Smith
> The point is that if we chastise these women for not working and being
> too fat, the next logical step is to forget about them and leave them to
> die in misery. Call me a pinko commy, but I'm just not prepared to
> inherit that karma.
>
I don't think that people are chastising them for not working and for being too
fat. They are chastising them for their lame excuses. The mother blames it on a
car accident that left her depressed and disabled. She was 23 at the time of the
accident, but never finished high school or worked before that time. Then they
claim that it is like Biafra or Ethiopia. The daughter blames the economy for
her not being able to find a job. She said she never had trouble finding jobs
before. Since she had had a number of jobs it seems that she also has trouble
keeping a job.
Giving these women subsidized housing, welfare and food stamps has done them no
good. Maybe if the state is expected to care for them they should be doing
something more useful. Perhaps the women would be better off if they were
institutionalized, given education and put on a strict diet.
FWIW.... I could not find anything about public transportation in Fostoria, but I
looked it up on Google Maps. It is not big enough to need a public transportation
system. It is only about one square mile. I used to walk further than that to
school and to part time jobs when I was a teen.
Had they not included the photo the readers would have no idea that these women
are both massively obese. They aren't starving.
John Kane
> I don' t think it is antipathy for the poor as much as it is for these two very
> large women who compared their situation to the famines in Ethiopia or Biafra.
Where? I read the NPR article and listened to the clip and didn't
hear anything like that.
I heard about a woman on disability due to a car accident and her
daughter who cannot find a job. The situation is aggravated by
transportation problems. If I understood the daughter's point she
quit a job at McDonalds when the cost of commuting became greater than
what she was making.
John Kane Kingston ON Canada
John Kane
It's much easier not to do anything for the undeserving poor.
amandaF
> "dsi1" <d...@spamworld.com> wrote in message
Someone once mentioned what they saw in a grocery store: someone on
food stamps stocking up on coke. Means packs of dozen of coke, not 2
liter bottles the cheaper way. I bet they just hold those cans and
sit and watch TV.
Food stamps should be allowed to buy only real food:
For me, it is cheaper to live on meat because I am satisfied and do
not need to eat much. Definitely do not crave those sugary sodas.
But then, not everyone's body is the same. Take this for example:
Growing up, when I was old enough to put food in my plate (without any
supervision, say 14 and above), when I scooped from the bowl to put on
my plate, I'd only pick the leanest looking piece, means no skin
dangling or I would remove the skin and left it on my plate (referring
to chicken; sometimes, my mother left the chicken skin on if the
chicken was young). In recent years, during a conversation, I came
to find out that my fraternal twin - to imply that we were fed exactly
the same way - always looked for that dangling piece of skin.
This tells me that her body craved for that piece. Not that she was
way over weight but she wasn't skinny like me. But then, I was after
sugar. Breakfast in our household usually was some sort of bread w/
some meat or egg. Once in a while my family tried native food made
fresh from some rice. (This happens only during summer break and one
of my brothers would volunteer to go far enough, meaning like 3 blocks
or so in the morning). They usually have coconut and some sugar in
it. This one particular thing I remember was like rice vermicelli
and with shredded coconut and sugar on top. I would dump a lot of
sugar on it, sometimes, it is literally sugar liquid - note I am
talking about when I was like 14 and 15. My twin never did that. I
think I did what I did because I was hypoglycemic. That must have been
the reason that I ate more sugar and sweet stuff than most of my
siblings. But my sweet tooth could be seen as just being a kid too.
Just that I ate sweet stuff more than my siblings.
People have genes that are pre-dispositioned to crave certain things
but people make their body functions worse by lack of knowledge.
I love cake and ice cream but I haven't been buying those anymore.
amandaF
Well said.
>
> Orlando
Melba's Jammin'
Orlando Enrique Fiol <of...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Judging from your comments, these Ohio women don't deserve
> any help because they're poor, undereducated and fat. Would they deserve
> more sympathy if they were equally poor and undereducated but thin?
>
> Orlando
Deserve more sympathy than the two women in the story? No, but they
*would* get it, I'll wager.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller , blahblahblog is back!
"rec.food.cooking Preserved Fruit Administrator
'Always in a jam. Never in a stew.'" - Evergene
Sheldon
The canned and frozen produce is just as costly, usually more
costly... frozen and canned greens ain't inexpensive, and canned isn't
very appetizing, nor is it so nutritious when the processing liquid is
dumped down the drain. With canned fruit the economics is even more
pronounced on the side of fresh, and canned fruit is so proccessed
that I don't consider it much more than a confection... and there just
isn't much variety of frozen fruits, and those are even more costly,
and again are little more than a confection. Frozen and canned
produce is always more costly, and substantially so, than in-season
fresh produce. Frozen and canned offer more convenience (sometimes)
is all, but at a dear price. The only reason a can of spinach will
feed a family of four is because just one family member eats it,
maybe. And frozen spinach cooks down to nothing just from heating, a
ten ounce package of frozen spinach is barely one serving... but when
fresh spinach is in the produce section you can buy a lot for
relatively little money, and since fresh shouldn't be hardly cooked at
all, or preferably eaten raw, a little goes a long way. I buy very
little canned produce, I only buy what I feel it's a true convenience,
like beets, creamed corn, and and all kinds of beans (and beans are
not fresh produce), and of course canned tomatoes in in it's various
incarnations. I buy hardly any canned fruit, it's too processed and
too expensive... I buy some canned fruit, pineapple is handy for
baking, and when I feel like splurging on a snack of canned purple
plums or a jar of queen anne cherries... stewed prunes are a whole lot
less expensive and more nutritious, and jams are definitely a
confection, their only food value is sugar... there's is no more
nutritional value in a pound of say strawberry jam than in a pound of
jelly beans.
Dave Smith
Poppycock. It is not just their size. It is their attempts to like their
situation to a famine. Neither of them is starving. they obviously eat lots
of food, though probably the wrong types of food. The daughter complains
that it is harder to find a job now than it used to be..... when she
apparently had trouble keeping a job. The mother has never worked and never
complete high school. She blames it on a car accident that happened when she
was 23, by which she should already have finished high school and could have
been out in the work force. They don't get much sympathy not because of
their fat but because of the attitude and lifestyle that led to their
obesity.
>
>
> Orlando
Sheldon
> Dave Smith wrote:
>
> > I don' t think it is antipathy for the poor as much as it is for these two very
> > large women who compared their situation to the famines in Ethiopia or Biafra.
>
> Where? �I read the NPR article and listened to the clip and didn't
> hear anything like that.
>
> I heard about a woman on disability due to a car accident and her
> daughter who cannot find a job. �The situation is aggravated by
> transportation problems. �If I understood the daughter's point she
> quit a job at McDonalds when the cost of commuting became greater than
> what she was making.
I have friends who live in northern Idaho, both late 50s, their kids
are grown and on their own in other locations. She's worked all her
life but has been totally disabled for the last five years (can't see
well enough to drive and can't walk well enough). He's worked more
than forty years in the same munitions factory. All those years he's
commuted the 120 mile round trip, mostly car pooled, and his ten year
old Subaru is no gas guzzler. They live in a small modest house in
rural Idaho they worked all their lives to pay for, moving closer to
work is not an option. They don't live high on the hog by any
stretch, they've never been on a "vacation", their main forms of
entertainment are TV, coffee with neighbors, and she has a pc, he's
never learned nor is he interested... in his spare moments he fly
fishes the local streams and is a volunteer fireman. They heat by
burning wood they spend a lot of time and effort gathering
themselves. Jobs in northern Idaho don't pay much but they were
always able to manage. But now it is costing him almost as much to
commute as he's paid. He has a number of medical problems that could
easily be turned into full disability but he'd rather work a few more
years (after so many years people at work become family), but with the
price of fuel they are seriously considering his taking the
disability. If the price of fuel keeps rising there will be an awful
lot of otherwise productive people who won't be able to afford a
job.
The US is NOT dependant on oil (never was), there is alternative
technology standing in the wings waiting to be developed, but the self
serving US politicos (all of them) have sat on their ignorant lazy
incompetant butts for more than a hundred years. The next
administration won't do any differently... however there will be
change alright, precipitatated by major acts of terrorism and a
massive revolution.
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
>their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
>Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
It's not enough to tell people to eat vegetarian if they don't know how
to prepare vegetables and have little access to fresh produce. Rather
than put up so many liquor stores and check cashing places in public
housing neighborhoods, states should give small supermarkets and farmers
markets zoning preferences and discounts for opening up near public
housing projects.
Orlando
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>What about getting a job?
Most of these jobs are not near the housing projects and many
communities have no public transportation to get people to and from
work. I know these will sound like mere excuses to you. But here's an
idea: If employers and charitable agencies have figured out how to
transport undocumented workers to job sites, why can't they offer poor
American citizens the same assistance?
Orlando
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>I don't think that people are chastising them for not working and for being too
>fat. They are chastising them for their lame excuses. The mother blames it on a
>car accident that left her depressed and disabled. She was 23 at the time of the
>accident, but never finished high school or worked before that time.
Because her husband worked. Are women now wrong for opting to be
housewives when their husbands work?
>Then they claim that it is like Biafra or Ethiopia.
They never said anything of the sort in the NPR story.
>The daughter blames the economy for her not being able to find a job. She said she never had trouble finding jobs
>before.
Is she alone? Are not many sectors of our work force finding it hard to
work in this economy?
>Since she had had a number of jobs it seems that she also has trouble
>keeping a job.
I'm sure that her poverty, lack of education, poor diet, lack of
transportation and depression all add up to a self esteem destroying
brew. Got any alternatives for her besides putdowns?
>Giving these women subsidized housing, welfare and food stamps has done them no
>good. Maybe if the state is expected to care for them they should be doing
>something more useful. Perhaps the women would be better off if they were
>institutionalized, given education and put on a strict diet.
I might go along with that if it were humane. But, people like you
probably wouldn't want to fund it.
Orlando
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>They don't get much sympathy not because of
>their fat but because of the attitude and lifestyle that led to their
>obesity.
Even people with poor attitudes shouldn't be abandoned to die in a
country that wastes more food than fifty nations could consume. That's
the bottom line here, folks. We have more than enough surplus food to
feed tens of thousands of families like these. We think nothing of
spending billions per month on two questionable wars. But, when anyone
suggests we spend that money on the poor, they're accused of being
enabling bleeding heart liberals. Well, call me what you want, but I
believe our primary responsibility is to our citizenry, especially
people who find it very difficult to care for themselves. What kind of
example do we set for the world if we let our own people languish and
die of malnutrition, drug abuse, obesity, diabetes, heart diseases and a
host of preventable psychological causes?
Orlando
Nancy Young
> adavid...@sympatico.ca wrote:
>> I don't think that people are chastising them for not working and
>> for being too
>> fat. They are chastising them for their lame excuses. The mother
>> blames it on a
>> car accident that left her depressed and disabled. She was 23 at the
>> time of the
>> accident, but never finished high school or worked before that time.
>
> Because her husband worked. Are women now wrong for opting to be
> housewives when their husbands work?
I see no mention she had a husband.
nancy
Billy
<of...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Even people with poor attitudes shouldn't be abandoned to die in a
>country that wastes more food than fifty nations could consume.
Orlando...your tired, bedwetting liberal whining is wearing my last
nerve. Say bubbye now and when I think of "Orlando", all I want to
think of is Disney, quite a bit more entertaining than your drivel.
Steve Pope
>Thinking vegetarian fare is less costly is a myth... anyone who thinks
>fresh fruits and vegetables cost less than meat hasn't been to the
>produce section recently. It costs less to eat meat, so long as one
>is not thinking rib roast, t-bone, spare ribs, lobster, and wild
>salmon is the only meat. The simple fact is that many common fresh
>fruits and vegetables cost more by two and three times than the more
>healthful (leaner) meat cuts. Consider that the more nutritious fresh
>fruits and vegetables are mostly water, therefore to consume enough to
>feel sated will cost significantly more than consuming a more balanced
>menu of say round steak stretched with starchy vegetables (like
>legumes) and using smaller amounts of the more nutritious but much
>pricier fresh produce (like red bell pepper).
I think Sheldon's right; the cheapest possible factory meat in the
U.S. is very cheap relative to its food value. The problem is, you
don't want to eat it, whether you are carnivore or vegetarian. It's
laden with hormones, antibiotics, purines and pesticides. Give my
share to the NPR interviewees please, but don't send it to the third
world where it will create a bad international image for America.
Steve
Sheldon
> adavid wrote:
> >They don't get much sympathy not because of
> >their fat but because of the attitude and lifestyle that led to their
> >obesity.
>
> Even people with poor attitudes shouldn't be abandoned to die in a
> country that wastes more food than fifty nations could consume. That's
> the bottom line here, folks. We have more than enough surplus food to
> feed tens of thousands of families like these.
They're eating their share, your share, and my share... don't you see
the size of those obeasties! They're certainly not starving (they can
be given all the healthful food anyone needs but they won't eat that,
instead they'll slug down fast food and beer, steal and smoke crack...
and no one is abandoning them except them.
And everyone is dying, MORON... you need to hurry up!
dsi1
> That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
> their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
> Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
>
> nancy
You ain't the bad guy. However, it's likely that people are going to cut
back on meats anyway when times are tough as an economic solution rather
than by any change in dietary philosophy. I suspect that they'd be
spending their dollars more on cheap carbs rather than veggies. It could
mean that we may see a reduction in meat consumption but not an increase
in health or reduction in the gross weight of the American folks. That's
just my guess.
Becca
> It's not enough to tell people to eat vegetarian if they don't know how
> to prepare vegetables and have little access to fresh produce. Rather
> than put up so many liquor stores and check cashing places in public
> housing neighborhoods, states should give small supermarkets and farmers
> markets zoning preferences and discounts for opening up near public
> housing projects.
>
> Orlando
Interesting comments, Orlando.
People should be educated about nutrition before they try a vegetarian
diet, at least on children. I am concerned about the rapid growth and
development of their bones and muscles.
Wednesday night, while staying at a hotel, I watched a show called Baby
Borrowers (I think that is the name). Young couples who are
20-something, borrow people's children to find out what it is like to be
a parent. One mother had two boys who were vegetarians, and she told
the borrowers, "Just cook whatever you want, they will not eat the meat,
but they will eat the vegetables and the potatoes." These children
needed to get some protein from beans, peas, whole grains, nuts, seeds,
eggs and dairy products (unless they are vegan).
My youngest son would not eat meat, and I did not worry about him if he
spent the night with a friend, but if he was gone for a few days, I
would be concerned about his nutrition. He is 6' 2", so he grew up okay.
Becca
sf
And armed guards to protect them. There's a reason why decent
groceries and other retail businesses are not near public housing
projects.
--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.
Mae West
Nexis
"Nancy Young" <rjy...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oK-dnXLYJosyVhTV...@comcast.com...
> jmcquown wrote:
>
>> True. And at least they aren't buying into the suggestion that her
>> daughter have a kid. For what? A few more welfare bucks? You still
>> have to feed the child. If they think they're starving *now* why
>> would anyone suggest they add another mouth to the mix?
>
> I don't understand it, either, but it seems to open up a whole
> new world of benefits for people.
>
> So, if they are complaining they can't afford meat, go
> vegetarian. Lots of people cut down on meat when times are
> tough. I don't think my mother served fried rice so often because
> there was a roast beef sitting in the refrigerator. Not that you want to
> eat fried rice all the time, but there are many vegetable
> dishes they could make.
> Not piling on, there are plenty of people knocking them, just thinking
> they need a change of mindset if they are complaining
> about meat.
>
> nancy
I think it's a sad commentary that people are so quick to judge, and so
quick to hate, but that's just me. I'm not talking about you, at all,
Nancy...I mean the people on that board. It never seems to occur to them
that part of the reason these two women appear the way they do (other than
genetics, which would appear to be a factor) is the statement about them
eating lots of starches because they're cheap.
This is a real issue in this country today, if you ask me. Part of the
reason for this epidemic obesity is that the foods that are readily
available to those with limited means are foods like pasta and potatoes, and
processed gunk. Along with eating more vegetables like you suggested, I'd
wager these two would benefit from buying less potatoes and pasta and
spending that money on whatever chicken or fish was on sale that week.
kimberly
Nexis
"aem" <aem_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2fe1955f-7916-45e4...@b30g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 25, 6:22 pm, Dave Smith <adavid.sm...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> aem wrote:
>
>> > It's far from clear to me that they deserve any of the knocking. This
>> > story was not originated by NPR or any real journalist.
>>
>> I beg your pardon, but the story is on the NPR web site and includes an
>> audio of the interview with the woman on All Things Considered.
>Of course it is, I didn't say otherwise. I said NPR didn't originate
>the story, which they acknowledge. The more pertinent question is why
>pick on people who obviously have such problems coping? It's a cheap
>and somewhat cruel story. -aem
Exactly what I thought. And the comments below the story were not funny in
the least, just cruel and judgemental.
kimberly
George
walmart as they do in my state (free land, free development/improvement
cost, free highway interchanges, no taxes for nine years etc) and
small markets would be able to compete.
Nexis
"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4889D208...@sympatico.ca...
> dejablues wrote:
>
>>
>> >> I just went back and checked the two links again. Yours does not have
>> >> the
>> > comments, which are worth reading. Almost everyone of the reader
>> > comments
>> > ridicules the women. And rightly so. They have a lot of gall to
>> > suggest
>> > that their situation is like the famine in Biafra or Ethiopia when it
>> > is
>> > so painfully obvious that these women are a long, long, long way from
>> > starving.
>>
>> Actually, they could be obese, but malnourished. Eating only cheap carbs
>> will leave their bodies starving for nutrients.
>
> Did you see the picture? Those women must weight 400 pounds each. They may
> be
> malnourished but they sure as hell aren't starving. They have a lot of
> nerve to
> compare their situation to Biafra or Ethiopia.
Perhaps taking a minute to actually read what you are replying to would
prevent you from sounding as ignorant as you do. First of all, the person
you replied to above stated the likely truth that they could be starving FOR
NUTRIENTS, which is not the same as starvation from hunger.
Second, the two women NEVER compared their situation to Biafra or Ethiopia.
The jackass that posted the article and then misformatted his own comments
is the one who said that.
And the only one here with alot of nerve is the one whose righteous
indignation was wrongly placed, not once but twice.
kimberly
George
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:29:48 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> <of...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> rjy...@comcast.net wrote:
>>> That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
>>> their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
>>> Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
>> It's not enough to tell people to eat vegetarian if they don't know how
>> to prepare vegetables and have little access to fresh produce. Rather
>> than put up so many liquor stores and check cashing places in public
>> housing neighborhoods, states should give small supermarkets and farmers
>> markets zoning preferences and discounts for opening up near public
>> housing projects.
>>
> And armed guards to protect them. There's a reason why decent
> groceries and other retail businesses are not near public housing
> projects.
>
>
>
freebies which the government picked from our pockets and no taxes for
nine years which helps them trash the small merchants.
Nexis
<sf> wrote in message news:506n84567p7iib2pv...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:29:48 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> <of...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>rjy...@comcast.net wrote:
>>>That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
>>>their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
>>>Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
>>
>>It's not enough to tell people to eat vegetarian if they don't know how
>>to prepare vegetables and have little access to fresh produce. Rather
>>than put up so many liquor stores and check cashing places in public
>>housing neighborhoods, states should give small supermarkets and farmers
>>markets zoning preferences and discounts for opening up near public
>>housing projects.
>>
> And armed guards to protect them. There's a reason why decent
> groceries and other retail businesses are not near public housing
> projects.
There's also a reason why many otherwise decent people living in housing
projects would turn to crime.
kimberly
Nexis
> dejablues wrote:
>
>> "Billy" <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
>> news:s10i849femcobn7vd...@4ax.com...
>> > This has to be the saddest story NPR has ever published. It is a
>> > real tear jerker..but NPR NEVER published the picture of this
>> > mother/daughter duo.
>>
>> Um, yes, they did:
>> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92592545
>
> Actually, there were pictures in the site linked by the OP.
>
> I just went back and checked the two links again. Yours does not have the
> comments, which are worth reading. Almost everyone of the reader comments
> ridicules the women. And rightly so. They have a lot of gall to suggest
> that their situation is like the famine in Biafra or Ethiopia when it is
> so painfully obvious that these women are a long, long, long way from
> starving.
>
You need help. Since when is it right to ridicule someone for merely stating
they're having a hard time? Once more, for the slow (Dave), THEY NEVER
COMPARED THEIR SITUATION TO ANYONE ELSE, MUCH LESS ETHIOPIA OR BIARFRA. Read
the article on the actual NPR page, which doesn't have the poorly formatted
comments added by the jackass that posted the version you read.
You know NOTHING of these two human beings' lives other than the soundbits
in this article, yet you feel you are right to ridicule them? What a small,
miserable man you must be. Shame on you.
kimberly
Nancy Young
> "Nancy Young" <rjy...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> So, if they are complaining they can't afford meat, go
>> vegetarian. Lots of people cut down on meat when times are
>> tough. I don't think my mother served fried rice so often because
>> there was a roast beef sitting in the refrigerator. Not that you
>> want to eat fried rice all the time, but there are many vegetable
>> dishes they could make.
>> Not piling on, there are plenty of people knocking them, just
>> thinking they need a change of mindset if they are complaining
>> about meat.
> I think it's a sad commentary that people are so quick to judge, and
> so quick to hate, but that's just me. I'm not talking about you, at
> all, Nancy...
Thank you, kimberly. (laugh)
> This is a real issue in this country today, if you ask me. Part of the
> reason for this epidemic obesity is that the foods that are readily
> available to those with limited means are foods like pasta and
> potatoes, and processed gunk. Along with eating more vegetables like
> you suggested, I'd wager these two would benefit from buying less
> potatoes and pasta and spending that money on whatever chicken or
> fish was on sale that week.
Yes, what it boils down to is they are given food stamps so that they
don't starve, and they need to use them wisely. As many people do,
food stamps or no.
Why such an outcry that they eat more vegetables if meat is out of
reach, I don't know.
Of course their weight is their business.
nancy
Nancy Young
a reminder that food banks need your donations.
Just sayin.
nancy
Nexis
> Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
>
>> Being totally blind, I can't see any pictures. But, I doubt those women
>> would lose weight healthily by starving. At a certain point, they'd be
>> physically incapable of getting out of bed if they starved for weeks or
>> months. People seem to be suggesting that they eat too much, which seems
>> impossible given their unfortunate circumstances. Why this antipathy
>> towards the poor?
>
> I don' t think it is antipathy for the poor as much as it is for these two
> very
> large women who compared their situation to the famines in Ethiopia or
> aren't starving. They are gigantic. The mother has never worked and never
> finished
> high school. She claims to have been left depressed and unable to work
> since she
> was involved in a car accident 17 years ago. Being 40, that means the
> accident
> happened when she was 23, well past the age when she should have finished
> high
> school, and even after leaving school she never worked, even when she
> could have.
> .
Now that is your own ignorance. And you really need to educate yourself on
the difference between malnourished and starvation from hunger. You don't
have ANY idea whatsoever why her mother wan't able to finish high school.
Yet it never occurs to you that something outside of her control may have
been the cause, you simply enjoy being the schoolyard bully and pointing
fingers.
>
>
>> In the piece, Gloria Nunez describes her middle-class
>> working husband.
>
> Sorry, but it doe snot describe her husband as a middle class working
> class. It says
> that her mother's husband worked at GM.
Yes, he confused her husband with her father....however, you once again
didn't read very well yourself. It very clearly states they grew up middle
class, and since he was working at GM, he was obviously a middle class
working man.
>
>> But, we all know those factory jobs are growing ever
>> more scarce. Why don't some of you affluent people who look down upon
>> the poor actually contribute to their improvement by donating vehicles
>> and funding child care so they can get to work?
>
> Sure.... we should all give up our hard earned money to pay for day care
> for someone
> who had a kid they can't afford to raise. I know I know... cycle of
> poverty and all
> that, but for crissakes , sometimes people have to take responsibility for
> their
> choices in life. You can't go out and get yourself pregnant and hope to
> live on
> welfare and then expect that someone else would support you and your kid
> while you
> go back to school to get enough education to get a job.
You have NO idea what their circumstances were when they had a kid.
Sometimes life happens. It is not for you to assume that they "went out and
got themself pregnant" while "expecting someone else would support" them. In
fact, the daughter made the decision NOT to get pregnant, even though they
were being told it would improve their situation. At this point, I have to
wonder if you are being elitist or just deliberately obtuse.
>
>
>> What about gardening
>> supplies so they can grow fresh fruits and vegetables in their housing
>> complexes? What about cash subsidies or gift cards from organic
>> groceries that could deliver fresh produce to their homes?
>
> Do those women look like they eat vegetables, or like they would go out
> and work in
> a garden?
> You would have to provide the tools and transportation and probably the
> work.
>
Again, you are making assumptions based on appearance, and not even a twinge
of actual knowledge. I'd bet money that the inability to afford fresh meats
and produce plays a major part in their appearance. And don't assume just
because someone is obese that they are lazy.
kimberly
Nexis
> Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
>
>> The point is that if we chastise these women for not working and being
>> too fat, the next logical step is to forget about them and leave them to
>> die in misery. Call me a pinko commy, but I'm just not prepared to
>> inherit that karma.
>>
>
> I don't think that people are chastising them for not working and for
> being too
> fat. They are chastising them for their lame excuses. The mother blames
> it on a
> car accident that left her depressed and disabled. She was 23 at the time
> of the
> they
> claim that it is like Biafra or Ethiopia. The daughter blames the economy
> her not being able to find a job. She said she never had trouble finding
> jobs
> trouble
> keeping a job.
Again, your ignorant assumptions. READ, man, READ.
>
> Giving these women subsidized housing, welfare and food stamps has done
> them no
> good. Maybe if the state is expected to care for them they should be doing
> something more useful. Perhaps the women would be better off if they were
> institutionalized, given education and put on a strict diet.
>
> FWIW.... I could not find anything about public transportation in
> Fostoria, but I
> looked it up on Google Maps. It is not big enough to need a public
> transportation
> system. It is only about one square mile. I used to walk further than
> that to
> school and to part time jobs when I was a teen.
The transportation was to go to TOLEDO to find work, since there isn't much
available in Fostoria. You yourself just stated how tiny it was...did you
think they would have an overflow of jobs there? Really?
>
>
> Had they not included the photo the readers would have no idea that these
> women
> are both massively obese. They aren't starving.
Yeah, whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night.
cshenk
> They're eating their share, your share, and my share... don't you see
> the size of those obeasties! They're certainly not starving (they can
> be given all the healthful food anyone needs but they won't eat that,
> instead they'll slug down fast food and beer, steal and smoke crack...
> and no one is abandoning them except them.
Actually nothing says these people drink, steal or are into drugs.
Obviously though at that size they do overeat.
You can find folks with a different metabolism that are fairly overweight,
but not to that level.
sf
wrote:
I am *not* a Walmart supporter. The areas bereft of local groceries
that I'm thinking of are in the city and don't have a Walmart within
30 minutes by car, on the freeway, so that excuse is out. If I have
to spell it out for you, I will.... but you don't need to convince me
that Walmart is the Evil Empire.
sf
The problem lies with the ones who *do* turn to crime. They ruin it
for everyone.
Nexis
"John Kane" <jrkr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:208612ca-481b-49c7...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 25, 9:19 pm, Dave Smith <adavid.sm...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> I don' t think it is antipathy for the poor as much as it is for these
>> two very
>> large women who compared their situation to the famines in Ethiopia or
>> Biafra.
>Where? I read the NPR article and listened to the clip and didn't
>hear anything like that.
>I heard about a woman on disability due to a car accident and her
>daughter who cannot find a job. The situation is aggravated by
>transportation problems. If I understood the daughter's point she
>quit a job at McDonalds when the cost of commuting became greater than
>what she was making.
>John Kane Kingston ON Canada
That's because Dave is going by the highly edited version posted by some
jackass on a seperate site. Because of his inability to tell the difference
between that site and the NPR site, and between the actual article and the
posters ignorant commentary, he's made himself look like a blithering fool.
They live in a tiny place 40 miles outside of the city (Toledo), and with
the way fuel has doubled in the last couple years, that would make a huge
impact on transportation, a concent Dave is unable to grasp.
The fact is, Dave took one look at these women and felt he knew all there
was to know about them because they are obese. In his eyes, that means they
simply MUST be lazy pigs who pop out kids and expect others to foot the
bill. It doesn't matter that the article disproves those ideas...just that
he believes them, so don't f*ck him up with the truth.
kimberly
Nexis
> Goomba wrote:
>> Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
>> Gloria Nunez describes her middle-class
>>> more scarce. Why don't some of you affluent people who look down upon
>>> the poor actually contribute to their improvement by donating
>>> vehicles and funding child care so they can get to work?
>
> line made me laugh. You should have seen the screaming when my
> state did just that for welfare recipients so they could work for a
> living.
Yes, the problem lies in that there are some truly lazy, drug-addled, and
mentally unhealthy people who, for whatever reasons, simply don't want to or
cannot work. That is not the same as people who do want to work, but can't
get a job. Something alot of people responding to that article failed to
take note of.
>
>> What about getting a job?
>> Factory jobs never seemed very "middle class" to me?
>
> I think in the auto industry they were. Then they did their best
> to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
>
> nancy
GM workers, and I can tell you this from personal experience, ranged from
middle class to upper middle class. That company is having the problems they
are right now because they have no executive talent to reign in all the
years of excess their employees floated through for so long. I have been
shocked time and again by the needless spending they have not only allowed,
but encouraged. And now, all of the people they promised all of these
benefits and health care and pay raises and bonuses to, the ones who worked
faithfully for decades for this company, they are the ones paying.
kimberly
Nexis
<sf> wrote in message news:b0an84hva2pfbdg5t...@4ax.com...
True...but many wouldn't feel they need to if they had other options.
Obviously there are people who will be criminals no matter what...but there
are plenty of others resorting to stealing because they don't see another
choice.
kimberly
sf
wrote:
Orlando has the right idea, except the state doesn't put up liquor
stores and check cashing places. They are the only businesses that
can survive in those areas. I know places where even they can't/won't
do business.
On to Walmart. Walmart isn't the real problem. Voters are. You got
what you voted for. Solution to the problem? Wake up and pay
attention like the people in Jill's mom's area did. They didn't allow
Walmart to play that game. Walmart doesn't operate in a vacuum.
There are public hearings. Get out and participate. Be vocal. Don't
play the victim and you won't be one.
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>Interesting comments, Orlando.
Thanks.
>People should be educated about nutrition before they try a vegetarian
>diet, at least on children. I am concerned about the rapid growth and
>development of their bones and muscles.
Plenty of Indian children grow up without ever seeing, much less
consuming meat.
>Wednesday night, while staying at a hotel, I watched a show called Baby
>Borrowers (I think that is the name). Young couples who are
>20-something, borrow people's children to find out what it is like to be
>a parent. One mother had two boys who were vegetarians, and she told
>the borrowers, "Just cook whatever you want, they will not eat the meat,
>but they will eat the vegetables and the potatoes." These children
>needed to get some protein from beans, peas, whole grains, nuts, seeds,
>eggs and dairy products (unless they are vegan).
I bet those temporary parents didn't know all that.
>My youngest son would not eat meat, and I did not worry about him if he
>spent the night with a friend, but if he was gone for a few days, I
>would be concerned about his nutrition. He is 6' 2", so he grew up okay.
Congratulations on an excellent job!
Orlando
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>And armed guards to protect them. There's a reason why decent
>groceries and other retail businesses are not near public housing
>projects.
See my other post. When people need or want things they can't afford,
they often resort to theft. Grocery stores would have to be subsidized
so that their merchandise was consistently affordable or even free to
the poorest people in greatest need.
Orlando
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>Orlando has the right idea, except the state doesn't put up liquor
>stores and check cashing places. They are the only businesses that
>can survive in those areas. I know places where even they can't/won't
>do business.
Every new business must undergo federal inspections and adhere to
national guidelines. Each town or county could reserve vacant lots or
buildings in poor neighborhoods for the kinds of businesses those
communities need most. Just as we can exert our rights against Walmart,
poor people can exert their rights to prevent yet another liquor store
or check cashing place from opening up where a well stocked supermarket
or health clinic should be.
Orlando
dsi1
>
> That's because Dave is going by the highly edited version posted by some
> jackass on a seperate site. Because of his inability to tell the difference
> between that site and the NPR site, and between the actual article and the
> posters ignorant commentary, he's made himself look like a blithering fool.
>
> They live in a tiny place 40 miles outside of the city (Toledo), and with
> the way fuel has doubled in the last couple years, that would make a huge
> impact on transportation, a concent Dave is unable to grasp.
>
> The fact is, Dave took one look at these women and felt he knew all there
> was to know about them because they are obese. In his eyes, that means they
> simply MUST be lazy pigs who pop out kids and expect others to foot the
> bill. It doesn't matter that the article disproves those ideas...just that
> he believes them, so don't f*ck him up with the truth.
>
> kimberly
>
>
Remind me to never get on your bad side. :-)
dave but not that Dave...
sf
>True...but many wouldn't feel they need to if they had other options.
>Obviously there are people who will be criminals no matter what...
Not necessarily. We don't have a caste system. Everyone has a chance
to succeed here.
>but there
>are plenty of others resorting to stealing because they don't see another
>choice.
Honestly, I think those days are over in the united states (let's just
keep this to legal citizens and not kitchen sink it). IMO: There is
no more crime due to lack of choices. In my city, we have too many
social outreach programs for that excuse to hold water anymore.
People turn to crime because of their poor choices rather than through
necessity. If they chose not to be educated, they put themselves on a
slippery slope. If they chose to join a gang, chances are high that
they'll also do drugs and commit crimes. The people I'm talking about
don't see a future, they live in the moment. Drugs and thugs have
been glamorized, so they feel no shame. It's cultural and
generational now.
Conversely, there are lots of honest people who are poor and
uneducated, who live in high crime, high poverty areas, but they also
see a future. In many cases, they are sacrificing their "now" to make
their children's future better.
Nexis
<sf> wrote in message news:tkcn84lqmg1grf1jr...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:54:46 -0700, "Nexis" <nex...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>True...but many wouldn't feel they need to if they had other options.
>>Obviously there are people who will be criminals no matter what...
>
> Not necessarily. We don't have a caste system. Everyone has a chance
> to succeed here.
You misunderstood me. I am not saying that these people don't have the same
chance as anyone else. Just that some people have no desire to be anything
but criminals. It's just how it is..it has nothing to do with society, or a
caste system.
>
>>but there
>>are plenty of others resorting to stealing because they don't see another
>>choice.
>
> Honestly, I think those days are over in the united states (let's just
> keep this to legal citizens and not kitchen sink it). IMO: There is
> no more crime due to lack of choices. In my city, we have too many
> social outreach programs for that excuse to hold water anymore.
> People turn to crime because of their poor choices rather than through
> necessity. If they chose not to be educated, they put themselves on a
> slippery slope. If they chose to join a gang, chances are high that
> they'll also do drugs and commit crimes. The people I'm talking about
> don't see a future, they live in the moment. Drugs and thugs have
> been glamorized, so they feel no shame. It's cultural and
> generational now.
>
> Conversely, there are lots of honest people who are poor and
> uneducated, who live in high crime, high poverty areas, but they also
> see a future. In many cases, they are sacrificing their "now" to make
> their children's future better.
>
All I'm saying is that there certainly *are* people who live in a quiet
desperation that turn to things like petty theft, not because they're bad
people or inherent criminals, but because they don't see another way. Yes
there are some who make it, but there are also some who don't, and
pretending they're not out there isn't going to help. People with years of
education are finding it almost impossible to find jobs. My brother tried
EVERY day but Sundays to get a job and it still took 10 months, because he
*was* educated.
No doubt that drugs and thugs have, as you said, been glamorized...but
everyone who steals a pound of ground beef is on drugs or a thug. Not
everyone who sneaks into an orchard and takes a basket of fruit is a thug or
on drugs. There are people who are stuck in the cycle, and do not know how
to get themselves out. If you think they don't exist, you would be mistaken.
kimberly
Nexis
"dsi1" <ds...@spamworld.com> wrote in message
news:T_2dne8IuJK6JRbV...@hawaiiantel.net...
LOL! I'm really not a mean person...I just have precious little tolerance
for ignorance and cruelty. Dave went on in several posts, talking about
these women as if he knew their life story, ridiculing them, mocking them,
and trashing them for something they never even said. That's just stupid,
isn't it?
kimberly
sf
<of...@verizon.net> wrote:
>sf wrote:
>>Orlando has the right idea, except the state doesn't put up liquor
>>stores and check cashing places. They are the only businesses that
>>can survive in those areas. I know places where even they can't/won't
>>do business.
>
>Every new business must undergo federal inspections and adhere to
>national guidelines. Each town or county could reserve vacant lots or
>buildings in poor neighborhoods for the kinds of businesses those
>communities need most.
>
Not only that, the entire community needs to be aware of what's
happening and participate in the process.
However, IME well stocked supermarkets come and go in high crime
areas. If they can't make a profit, they're gone. Grocery stores
operate on an unbelievably low profit margin.... it was something like
1% the last time I was heard someone knowledgeable talk about the
subject
>Just as we can exert our rights against Walmart,
>poor people can exert their rights to prevent yet another liquor store
>or check cashing place from opening up where a well stocked supermarket
>or health clinic should be.
People (in my city) who live in high crime, poverty areas have
discovered they have a voice. They *will* be heard if they come
together and make some noise. I know of once specific bar they closed
down because it generated too much crime in the immediate area. The
bar was only a block from the new(ish) streetcar line that connects
their area directly with downtown, so their area is becoming "hot
property" if it's within maybe 5 blocks of that transportation. Lemme
tell you, if the owners of the homes actually live in them... they are
no fools. They will do whatever it takes to increase the value of the
houses.
My city is at the stage where every area has a community health
clinic, but one of them still lacks a convenient major supermarket
although there has been talk about one for years. There's one market
on the periphery, in an area with new construction (which doesn't
count for me). Maybe next year, or the year after...
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>Not only that, the entire community needs to be aware of what's
>happening and participate in the process.
That takes some doing when people have been socialized not to
participate in any civic processes.
>However, IME well stocked supermarkets come and go in high crime
>areas. If they can't make a profit, they're gone. Grocery stores
>operate on an unbelievably low profit margin.... it was something like
>1% the last time I was heard someone knowledgeable talk about the
>subject
Which is why they need to be subsidized. We're subsidizing a now
pointless and bungled war in Iraq. It would cost much less to subsidize
some grocery stores to stay open in neighborhoods that need them most.
Orlando
sf
<of...@verizon.net> wrote:
>sf wrote:
>>Not only that, the entire community needs to be aware of what's
>>happening and participate in the process.
>
>That takes some doing when people have been socialized not to
>participate in any civic processes.
>
>>However, IME well stocked supermarkets come and go in high crime
>>areas. If they can't make a profit, they're gone. Grocery stores
>>operate on an unbelievably low profit margin.... it was something like
>>1% the last time I was heard someone knowledgeable talk about the
>>subject
>
>Which is why they need to be subsidized.
I can't agree with that. We're basically subsiding big business and
agriculture as it is now with the tax breaks they get. Maybe a
Walmart type "incentive" would work for me, but I have such a sour
taste in my mouth about the way big business uses tax breaks.... I'd
probably vote against that.
>We're subsidizing a now
>pointless and bungled war in Iraq. It would cost much less to subsidize
>some grocery stores to stay open in neighborhoods that need them most.
>
Don't even get me started! We could construct or maintain schools and
hospitals, fill POTHOLES in the streets (they swallow trucks in NYC),
improve mass transportation, upgrade and maintain our national
infrastructure, and pay close attention to our public parks (national,
state, local) with that money.
:/
Cheryl
The next administration is in huge trouble, or maybe we're in trouble. They
don't even touch on the problems of the masses because all they seem to
focus on is the war. I haven't heard anything from the candidates about the
economy. The Senate seems to be working on it, but its a smokescreen.
sf
People in America are not that poor. Drugs are at the root of the
problem, not poverty. Drug dealers don't barter, they deal in cold
cash. People steal to get money to buy drugs. If they receive
welfare, their priority is drugs not food. Even so, stealing food
isn't a necessity here in America. All they need to do is show up at
a soup kitchen and they are fed. There is NO valid excuse to steal
food in this day and age.
sf
<jlhs...@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>The Senate seems to be working on it,
They're working hard to get re-elected!
> but its a smokescreen.
Let's try not to think about where they're blowing that smoke, OK?
;)
pussywillow
<sf> wrote in message news:403o845ci20ek2g9s...@4ax.com...
pussywillow
<sf> wrote in message news:u81o84t9puq8j14sc...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 23:46:21 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> <of...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>sf wrote:
>>>And armed guards to protect them. There's a reason why decent
>>>groceries and other retail businesses are not near public housing
>>>projects.
>>
>>See my other post. When people need or want things they can't afford,
>>they often resort to theft. Grocery stores would have to be subsidized
>>so that their merchandise was consistently affordable or even free to
>>the poorest people in greatest need.
>>
> People in America are not that poor. Drugs are at the root of the
> problem, not poverty. Drug dealers don't barter, they deal in cold
> cash. People steal to get money to buy drugs. If they receive
> welfare, their priority is drugs not food. Even so, stealing food
> isn't a necessity here in America. All they need to do is show up at
> a soup kitchen and they are fed.
Hmmm, perhaps there should be drug kitchens too.
dsi1
> "dsi1" <d...@spamworld.com> wrote in message
You have a low tolerance for ignorance because you're an idealistic
type. We can both agree that piling assumptions atop of assumptions is
dumb but mostly I find the comments amusing. Guess I'm a fatalistic
cynic. Anyway, I'm gonna try real hard to stay on your good side if
you don't mind... :-)
kilikini
> <sf> wrote in message
> news:tkcn84lqmg1grf1jr...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:54:46 -0700, "Nexis" <nex...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> True...but many wouldn't feel they need to if they had other
>>> options. Obviously there are people who will be criminals no matter
>>> what...
>>
>> Not necessarily. We don't have a caste system. Everyone has a
>> chance to succeed here.
>
> You misunderstood me. I am not saying that these people don't have
> the same chance as anyone else. Just that some people have no desire
> to be anything but criminals. It's just how it is..it has nothing to
> do with society, or a caste system.
>
As I've mentioned before, we don't exactly live in Mayberry. A buddy of
ours, Ed, who works right around the corner from us, knows a girl who
"works" that corner because she's there every day waiting on her clientele.
Ed chats with her sometimes because he's usually working alone. He asked
her the other morning how business was that day (she had been out there for
about 3 hours). She told him she already made $600. (Oh, she's homeless,
by the way.) Our buddy was like, "WHOA! You made that much already?" (Our
friend refurbishes motors for $100 a day.)
The girl disappeared for a few hours and came back to work the corner again.
Ed joked to her, "What, did you run out of money already?"
She nodded.
Then Ed asked, "Did you spend it all on crack?"
She nodded.
When Ed told my husband and me the story, our mouths dropped. She's
homeless, a hooker, "earned" $600 in a few hours and lost it all on crack in
a matter of hours.
Yep, some folks just choose to be stupid criminals.
kili
Sheldon
> Sheldon �<PENMAR...@aol.com> wrote:
> >Thinking vegetarian fare is less costly is a myth... anyone who thinks
> >fresh fruits and vegetables cost less than meat hasn't been to the
> >produce section recently. �It costs less to eat meat, so long as one
> >is not thinking rib roast, t-bone, spare ribs, lobster, and wild
> >salmon is the only meat. �The simple fact is that many common fresh
> >fruits and vegetables cost more by two and three times than the more
> >healthful (leaner) meat cuts. �Consider that the more nutritious fresh
> >fruits and vegetables are mostly water, therefore to consume enough to
> >feel sated will cost significantly more than consuming a more balanced
> >menu of say round steak stretched with starchy vegetables (like
> >legumes) and using smaller amounts of the more nutritious but much
> >pricier �fresh produce (like red bell pepper). �
>
> I think Sheldon's right; the cheapest possible factory meat in the
> U.S. is very cheap relative to its food value. �The problem is, you
> don't want to eat it, whether you are carnivore or vegetarian. �It's
> laden with hormones, antibiotics, purines and pesticides. �Give my
> share to the NPR interviewees please, but don't send it to the third
> world where it will create a bad international image for America.
>
> Steve
That's not true, there are no more additives in meat than in
vegetables, actually less in meat, especially relative to amounts
consumed... the average person consumes far more vegetable products
than animal products. And you only think there is such a thing as
organic food, that's the biggest food myth of all.
Sheldon
> <sf> wrote in messagenews:u81o84t9puq8j14sc...@4ax.com...
Opium Den now Crack House!
jmcquown
> > That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
> > their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
> > Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
>
> It's not enough to tell people to eat vegetarian if they don't know
> how to prepare vegetables and have little access to fresh produce.
> Rather than put up so many liquor stores and check cashing places in
> public housing neighborhoods, states should give small supermarkets
> and farmers markets zoning preferences and discounts for opening up
> near public housing projects.
>
> Orlando
You can really tell impoverished areas by the check cashing and title loan
scam places, it's true. These people don't know enough to read the fine
print; the term Usury comes to mind.
Having said that, public monies should be allotted to educate poor people
about food and food prep. It's all too easy to hand folks food stamps (and
yes, I was a recipient for a brief period of time) without giving out basic
food prep and nutrition information. I was stunned at the things I could
(but didn't) purchase using food stamps. I was equally surprised to find
things like a rotisserie chicken prepared by the supermarket or fresh or
prepped items off the "salad bar" weren't covered even though they were
infinitely more healthful options. Maybe the rules vary by state but this
was my experience.
Jill
sf
<pussy...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>Hmmm, perhaps there should be drug kitchens too.
That's another thread in another ng. I didn't go there because the
subject of "legalizing" drugs will take this thread too far OT.
Dave Smith
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 23:46:21 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> <of...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> People in America are not that poor. Drugs are at the root of the
> problem, not poverty. Drug dealers don't barter, they deal in cold
> cash. People steal to get money to buy drugs.
It is a matter of choices and drugs are a choice, or start off as a choice. While there may be
increased use if they were to be legalized and addiction treated as a disease instead of as a crime.
Criminalization has done little more than to drive up the price of drugs and the high prices make it a
prime market for criminal elements. When I was at university back in the early 70s I did a paper on
heroin addiction. It had been legal in the UK and it cost the government about 4o cents per day to
supply heroin to registered drug addicts. At the same time, it was costing junkies in NY something like
$300. They had to turn enough tricks or steal enough stuff to fence for $300. There were fewer illegal
sources in the UK because it just wasn't worth the risk if their customers could get it free from
government sources.
.
> If they receive
> welfare, their priority is drugs not food. Even so, stealing food
> isn't a necessity here in America. All they need to do is show up at
> a soup kitchen and they are fed. There is NO valid excuse to steal
> food in this day and age.
Shop lifters usually don't steal out of need. They do it for excitement. Most shoplifters who get
caught have the money to buy what they stole.
Michel Boucher
news:488CA46C...@sympatico.ca:
>>sf wrote:
>>
>> People in America are not that poor. Drugs are at the root of the
>> problem, not poverty.
With the cost of prescription drugs in the US, I'm surprised there isn't
more crime. Yes, yes, I know you were talking about street drugs, but I
think the problem is more fundamental. It would appewar that in the US
(as in some other capitalist benighted nations), those who have don't
give a shit about those who don't. Hence all the other issues that arise
from a culture of carelessness.
> dave wrote:
>
> It is a matter of choices and drugs are a choice, or start off as a
> choice. While there may be increased use if they were to be legalized
> and addiction treated as a disease instead of as a crime.
> Criminalization has done little more than to drive up the price of
> drugs and the high prices make it a prime market for criminal
> elements. When I was at university back in the early 70s I did a
> paper on heroin addiction. It had been legal in the UK and it cost the
> government about 4o cents per day to supply heroin to registered drug
> addicts. At the same time, it was costing junkies in NY something like
> $300. They had to turn enough tricks or steal enough stuff to fence
> for $300. There were fewer illegal sources in the UK because it just
> wasn't worth the risk if their customers could get it free from
> government sources. .
Dave Dave Dave Dave Dave...tsk tsk...using actual facts to argue
something that can only be described as an emotionally charged issue to
less than 7% of the world`s population? That is truly diabolical ;-)
>> All they need to do is show up at
>> a soup kitchen and they are fed.
>
> Shop lifters usually don't steal out of need. They do it for
> excitement. Most shoplifters who get caught have the money to buy what
> they stole.
You missed the point I think. What we have here is a revelation that the
"richest country in the world" (tm applied for) has soup kitchens. In
other words, the system fails some people. How can this be? Time for a
"Gautama steps outside the palace" moment, not that I think it will
happen soon.
Dave Smith
>
> With the cost of prescription drugs in the US, I'm surprised there isn't
> more crime. Yes, yes, I know you were talking about street drugs, but I
> think the problem is more fundamental. It would appewar that in the US
> (as in some other capitalist benighted nations), those who have don't
> give a shit about those who don't. Hence all the other issues that arise
> from a culture of carelessness.
I was indeed referring to street drugs, and it is not as if the US is the
only place with a drug related crime problem. And it is not just a matter of
being poor and turning to drugs. A few days ago there was an interesting
piece on the CBC web site where they interviewed a young native woman on an
Alberta reserve. You may recall the case a few years ago where a young girl
was hit by a stray bullet that came in through the wall of their house. The
interview with her mother was interesting. The reported nailed her down about
the amount of money that she was given when she turned 18. It seems that the
band was sitting on oil..As a member of the band she was entitled to a share
of the royalties and when she turned 18 she received $234,000. Like almost
everyone else on the reserve, she blew it all. Now the oil revenues have
dried up and the only business on the reserve is drug dealing and several
gangs are fighting over the business.
Poverty is not a cause of criminality in everyone. My father grew up poor,
and so did my father in law. Both were born into hard working families who
instilled some positive values into their children, and subsequently the kids
grew out of poverty and did well for themselves. They did not waste the
little money they had on drugs and booze.
Kathleen
What do you think a methadone clinic is?
Michel Boucher
@sympatico.ca:
> They did not waste the
> little money they had on drugs and booze.
Probably because they had hope for a better future. Sadly enough, there
are many people who do not and who, for reasons that elude the vast
majority, turn to drugs and alcohol as a means to dull the pain of utter
hopelessness. Do away with hopelessness and the drug/alcohol problem will
be resolved in most cases.
Blaming someone for not having hope is like blaming someone for having a
club foot or being a pinhead conservative.