For me, this is a new "Gout" food I shouldn't be eating anyway!
Landon
large pizzas and ate the whole thing in two days. I was craving it
like it was drugs or something.
Well, this morning I've started paying for it the second time. I woke
with the left ankle hurting so much I can hardly support myself on it.
I haven't had a Gout attack in years.
With my diabetes, I shouldn't be eating pizza anyway and surely not
the amount I let myself eat this time.
Shame on me!
It is curious that pizza caused it this time. That's a first for me.
Perhaps it was the quantity. I still can't believe I ate that much. I
just sort of went nuts I guess.
Temporary insanity! That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Owwwwww, my damn ankle hurts like hell!
Portland
I find pizza really raises my blood sugar. One thing that is good
about it though (for sort of kind of health reasons) is that for me it
is relatively easy to digest for some strange reason. I have
gastroparesis, and digestion of most foods is difficult. Pizza is one
of the easy ones.
KenK
news:ejpuo65kb5fctteag...@4ax.com:
I've taken allopurinal (cheap) for many decades, pay no attention to
diet, and have had no problems. But perhaps my gout (or diet) is/was
different than yours. Mine was in my largest toe if I recall correctly.
Ken
--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner
Mark Thorson
>
> I eat pizza about twice a year. Two days ago, I got one of Dominos
> large pizzas and ate the whole thing in two days. I was craving it
> like it was drugs or something.
Meat and cheese in excess can both cause gout.
Add eggs, and the list is nearly complete.
Note that a recurrence of gout while recovering
from an attack is often worse than the original
attack. I'd say you should be symptom-free for
2 or 3 days before resuming eating meat.
notbob
> I've taken allopurinal (cheap) for many decades, pay no attention to
> diet, and have had no problems.
I've told 'em many times, but some ppl jes don't wanna listen.
nb
gloria.p
> Landon<lan...@noreply.com> wrote
>>
>> Owwwwww, my damn ankle hurts like hell!
>
> I've taken allopurinal (cheap) for many decades, pay no attention to
> diet, and have had no problems. But perhaps my gout (or diet) is/was
> different than yours. Mine was in my largest toe if I recall correctly.
>
> Ken
>
>
Ditto for me, Ken. A Hawaiian trip with overindulgence in shrimp
triggered mine. Allopurinol has been a terrific preventative along
with more cautious eating.
gloria p
notbob
>
> Note that a recurrence of gout while recovering
> from an attack is often worse than the original
> attack. I'd say you should be symptom-free for
> 2 or 3 days before resuming eating meat.
You know spit about a serious gout attack.
I had one and it was the worst experience in my life. My foot was in
unreletning pain, swollen to the size of a football, and so hot I felt
I could fry bacon on it. I thought the skin was gonna split open like
a skin-on pork shoulder onna rotisserie spit. This went on for five
days. In the end, I was on crutches for 3 wks and a cane for 3 mos!!
It was 7 mos before I was normal, and this in the hands of the best
practicing rheumatologist in the SFBA, outta Stanford.
One word. Allipurinol. If yer doc won't prescribe it, shoot him!
nb
Landon
<railya...@ymail.com> wrote:
>I find pizza really raises my blood sugar. One thing that is good
>about it though (for sort of kind of health reasons) is that for me it
>is relatively easy to digest for some strange reason. I have
>gastroparesis, and digestion of most foods is difficult. Pizza is one
>of the easy ones.
It was one of those uncontrollable urges. I usually make my own little
pizzas when I have a craving, but Dominos $10 large made me do it!
I swear, the Debil made me do it!
Oh God, my foot!
------------------------------------
On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 12:31:33 -0500, Andy <a@b.c> wrote:
>Landen,
>
>You didn't say what toppings you chose.
>
>If it was a plain cheese pizza, maybe it was something like anchovy oil
>or a partial blend with it.
>
>Gout is VERY crippling. My first and worst episode was in 2007. Driving
>nails into my feet would've probably hurt less!
>
>Trouble is it took a day or two to render it's painfully symptoms so I
>never did figure out what I ate to cause it.
>
>I hobbled into the podiatrist's office. He took one look at my feet and
>said "Gout!" Wrote up a couple prescriptions and a gout readme booklet
>and sent me on my way. It lasted over a week!
>
>I wouldn't wish gout on the enemy!
>
>Get well quick,
>
>Best,
>
>Andy
Thanks Andy! I got the Extravaganza of course. Egg in the crust, lots
of cheese and meat. Like I *wanted* gout! It used to only be my left
big toe, but this time it got my entire left ankle.
I don't know what got into me!
-----------------------------------------------------
On 27 Mar 2011 17:34:35 GMT, KenK <inv...@invalid.com> wrote:
>I've taken allopurinal (cheap) for many decades, pay no attention to
>diet, and have had no problems. But perhaps my gout (or diet) is/was
>different than yours. Mine was in my largest toe if I recall correctly.
>
>Ken
If this lasts more than a couple days, I'll call the Doc and get some
Allopurinal. I've used it before and it works very well for me. I'll
wait and see if it fades first.
-------------------------------------------------
On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 11:52:08 -0600, "gloria.p" <gpue...@comcast.net>
wrote:
>Ditto for me, Ken. A Hawaiian trip with overindulgence in shrimp
>triggered mine. Allopurinol has been a terrific preventative along
>with more cautious eating.
>
>gloria p
Yep, I usually keep my brain in gear, but the clutch slipped this
time...
--------------------------------------------------
On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 10:40:52 -0800, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net>
wrote:
Thank goodness I've never had a recurrence after it passes. I'm
sticking to some soups for a few days.
Every time I sit still for a few minutes at the PC, it bites me again
when I stand up! Ha...poor me!
mybad!
Roy
==
Brings to mind the old comic strip "Bringing Up Father" where the main
character always had gout and always had a cane to assist in walking.
Elevating the foot on an ottoman seemed to help.
==
Mark Thorson
>
> On 2011-03-27, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
> >
> > Note that a recurrence of gout while recovering
> > from an attack is often worse than the original
> > attack. I'd say you should be symptom-free for
> > 2 or 3 days before resuming eating meat.
>
> You know spit about a serious gout attack.
On the contrary, I've had several. During the two
worst ones, I couldn't stand much less walk.
Crawling into the kitchen to get food was extremely
painful. Just existing was painful. I remember
thinking that if I had to feel this much pain for
the rest of my life, I'd rather die.
> I had one and it was the worst experience in my life. My foot was in
> unreletning pain, swollen to the size of a football, and so hot I felt
> I could fry bacon on it. I thought the skin was gonna split open like
> a skin-on pork shoulder onna rotisserie spit. This went on for five
> days. In the end, I was on crutches for 3 wks and a cane for 3 mos!!
> It was 7 mos before I was normal, and this in the hands of the best
> practicing rheumatologist in the SFBA, outta Stanford.
It sounds like you aggravated the condition by working
the afflicted joint. That's what made my worst attacks
so bad. A moderate attack can become a major attack by
doing that. What did it for me was driving my stick-shift
car. Re-injuring a joint during recovery makes recovery
much longer.
Mark Thorson
>
> Brings to mind the old comic strip "Bringing Up Father" where the main
> character always had gout and always had a cane to assist in walking.
> Elevating the foot on an ottoman seemed to help.
Der Captain in the Katzenjammer Kids strip also had gout.
He was usually depicted in a wheelchair or with a crutch,
while having a foot and ankle in a cast.
notbob
> On the contrary, I've had several. During the two
> worst ones, I couldn't stand much less walk.
> Crawling into the kitchen to get food was extremely
> painful. Just existing was painful. I remember
> thinking that if I had to feel this much pain for
> the rest of my life, I'd rather die.
I stand corrected and you have my deepest apology/sympathy. I'll back up a
few and state, if you've had more than one episode, your doctor sucks.
That or you completely ignored basic gout advice.
> It sounds like you aggravated the condition by working
> the afflicted joint.
I lived on my couch for a week. I'm more than familiar with
the act of "crawling". After an unnecessary spinal tap by an idiot doc
and changing health plans, I got competent care.
I hope you are on allipurinol and have no more problems. I've not had
an attack for almost 15 yrs and eat/drink EVERYTHING! ...although I keep
my exposure to anchovies down to no more than once per yr. ;)
nb
Mr. Bill
> > You know spit about a serious gout attack.
>
> On the contrary, I've had several.
MY attack was worse than your attack! <vbg>
Always keep a scrip for Colchicine..and it is a miracle pill.
Mark Thorson
>
> On 2011-03-27, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
> > notbob wrote:
>
> > On the contrary, I've had several. During the two
> > worst ones, I couldn't stand much less walk.
> > Crawling into the kitchen to get food was extremely
> > painful. Just existing was painful. I remember
> > thinking that if I had to feel this much pain for
> > the rest of my life, I'd rather die.
>
> I stand corrected and you have my deepest apology/sympathy. I'll back up a
> few and state, if you've had more than one episode, your doctor sucks.
> That or you completely ignored basic gout advice.
No, it's that I just try to manage it through diet.
As long as I limit my intake of meat, cheese, and eggs,
I'm usually just fine. I also have to drink lots of
water, especially if I'm not drinking any beer.
> > It sounds like you aggravated the condition by working
> > the afflicted joint.
>
> I lived on my couch for a week. I'm more than familiar with
> the act of "crawling". After an unnecessary spinal tap by an idiot doc
> and changing health plans, I got competent care.
>
> I hope you are on allipurinol and have no more problems. I've not had
> an attack for almost 15 yrs and eat/drink EVERYTHING! ...although I keep
> my exposure to anchovies down to no more than once per yr. ;)
No, I use diet to manage my gout. I've only had
one serious attack in the last 10 years, and that
could have been prevented by paying more attention.
I'd rather watch my diet than take allopurinol for
the rest of my life, even if it means I can't indulge
in meat as often as I'd like.
Mark Thorson
>
> Always keep a scrip for Colchicine..and it is a miracle pill.
Allopurinol is far safer than colchicine. Colchicine
has a very low therapeutic index (ratio between a safe
dose and a dangerous dose).
Mr. Bill
Be wary of green peas & beer...also on the don't eat/drink list!
Mark Thorson
>
> Allopurinol is far safer than colchicine. Colchicine
> has a very low therapeutic index (ratio between a safe
> dose and a dangerous dose).
I meant "effective dose", not "safe dose".
notbob
> Allopurinol is far safer than colchicine. Colchicine
> has a very low therapeutic index (ratio between a safe
> dose and a dangerous dose).
Colchicine got me a spinal tap by an inexperienced doc. Bad for long
term use (more than a wk) but good to knock down a servere attack in
the short term.
nb
Mr. Bill
My physician told me to to take one pill and if I didn't feel
immediate results to stop taking the drug. If I did have immediate
results, take for two days only. That was it...no long term use
since this effective drug does provide unwanted side effects. Only
your doctor can determine if this is the proper drug to use. He was
right in my case.
Paul M. Cook
"Landon" <lan...@noreply.com> wrote in message
news:ejpuo65kb5fctteag...@4ax.com...
Get yourself a big bottle of 100% pure cherry juice. Not juice from
concentrate. Just pure cherry juice. Drink several glasse sa day. Your
gout should improve quickly. I used it to cure my toe goiut some years ago
and it was a miracle cure.
Paul
Mark Thorson
>
> Get yourself a big bottle of 100% pure cherry juice. Not juice from
> concentrate. Just pure cherry juice. Drink several glasse sa day. Your
> gout should improve quickly. I used it to cure my toe goiut some years ago
> and it was a miracle cure.
I tried that, and it didn't seem to have any
effect more than the same amount of water
would have.
spamtrap1888
Considering an entire large Domino's pizza could contain over 9 grams
of sodium, I wonder if landon's ankles could have been swollen, adding
to the pain of gout.
Julie Bove
>
> I find pizza really raises my blood sugar. One thing that is good
> about it though (for sort of kind of health reasons) is that for me it
> is relatively easy to digest for some strange reason. I have
> gastroparesis, and digestion of most foods is difficult. Pizza is one
> of the easy ones.
I have diabetes and gastroparesis too. No gout. I would think the problem
with gout would be the meat toppings which I don't eat.
Years ago I used to get a veggie pizza at the Presidio when we lived in CA.
I would go to the commissary to shop after eating the pizza and then have a
hypo! The dreaded pizza effect. Too much fat in the pizza I guess. I
would then make things worse by eating some M & Ms. This would bring my
blood sugar back up but then about an hour later the pizza would hit my
system and my blood sugar would be high!
These days I eat pizza maybe a couple of times a month. I have to use a
rice based crust because of daughter's wheat allergy. The rice crust is
very easy for my to digest. I either make it at home or get it from Garlic
Jim's. Extra cheese of all kinds. Works very well for me but I do have to
watch my portion size. I put some pine nuts on it if I make it.
Sky
Spouse has had gout for years :/ Thankfully, his is usually controlled
by his daily dose of allopurinol. Unfortunately, Spouse did try the
cherry juice trick a few times, but it did not work for him. Whenever
he gets a 'twinge' that indicates a gout attack is imminent, he nips it
in the but with some colchicine, which does work wonders. However, the
potential side effects of the colchicine are not very nice at all.
Luckily, he rarely gets attacks nowadays - knock on wood!
Sky
--
Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice!!
Bryan
Did you use it before the whole Colcrys bullshit? That orphan drug
legislation is a consumer ripoff scheme.
--Bryan
Julie Bove
"Sky" <skyh...@NOsbcglobal.SnPeAtM> wrote in message
news:8v9ss2...@mid.individual.net...
You're telling a diabetic to drink cherry juice? He may as well just shoot
himself. The death will be quicker and much less painful.
I do take tart cherry pills. Not sure if they would have the same effect as
the juice. I take them because they contain antioxidants.
Steve Pope
> I eat pizza about twice a year. Two days ago, I got one of Dominos
> large pizzas and ate the whole thing in two days. I was craving it
> like it was drugs or something.
I doubt that pizza triggered your gout. There are not many purines
at all in a cheese pizza. Even sausage and peperoni doe not have
lots of purines. But an anchovy pizza, perhaps.
They only way I can think of a Dominos pizza being causitive of
an onset of gout is if it has a ton of sugar in it, which is
I guess possible.
Steve
Steve Pope
>Meat and cheese in excess can both cause gout.
>Add eggs, and the list is nearly complete.
Where are you getting this? Cheese is almost purine-free and
eggs are fairly low purine.
Steve
Steve Pope
>One word. Allipurinol. If yer doc won't prescribe it, shoot him!
It's only one of several proven gout medications. It is not the
best one for everyone.
But where we agree, probably, is that gout should not be left
untreated. Not only are there effective medications, it is
also trivial to monitor the effectiveness of the treatment
with blood testing. So it really is scientific,
with the blood test telling you the net effect of the medication
and diet measures you are undertaking.
I know several people who are not treating their gout and I think
this is totally utterly insane, given the possible consequences.
Especially if they're believing and following bizarre food-trigger theories
instead.
Steve
Sky
The high salt content might also be a consideration? Nothing like water
retention to perhaps trigger a bout of uric acid precipitation in the
joint(s), eh? Just conjecture on my part.
Steve Pope
>On 3/27/2011 9:35 PM, Steve Pope wrote:
>> They only way I can think of a Dominos pizza being causitive of
>> an onset of gout is if it has a ton of sugar in it, which is
>> I guess possible.
>The high salt content might also be a consideration? Nothing like water
>retention to perhaps trigger a bout of uric acid precipitation in the
>joint(s), eh? Just conjecture on my part.
Maybe, some will say dehydration can lead to gout attacks, but
I have not read that salt specifically is an issue.
S.
Paul M. Cook
"Julie Bove" <juli...@frontier.com> wrote in message
news:imordo$e9b$1...@dont-email.me...
Actually it was me who recommended it. I am diabetic and I can drink cherry
juice in measured amounts. Sure it makes my BG go up but not so much as you
think. The raw juice is not the sweetened kind like you normally see. It's
actually kind of hard to find and it can be quite tart sometimes even sour.
TJs sells it. I suspect the failure of those who have tried it was they
used the 10% "juice" like Oceanspray. I like to mix it with diet 7-Up.
It's not like you live on the stuff and if he's on insulin he can control
the BG. Certainly does less damage than a 16 inch pizza. I went bonkers
and ordered a pizza a while back and suffered a spike of 425. It was days
before I felt better. Don't have that problem with cherry juice.
> I do take tart cherry pills. Not sure if they would have the same effect
> as the juice. I take them because they contain antioxidants.
The juice eliminated my gout in 3 days. It's not the antioxidants. Cherry
juice has the ability to dissolve uric acid crystals which is what gout is.
Not sure what the active component is.
Paul
Paul M. Cook
"Steve Pope" <spo...@speedymail.org> wrote in message
news:imot1s$tep$4...@blue.rahul.net...
Tomatoes contain a lot of purines.
Paul.
Steve Pope
>Tomatoes contain a lot of purines.
11 mg per 100 g. Not particularly high.
http://www.acumedico.com/purine.htm
Steve
Dave Smith
>> I do take tart cherry pills. Not sure if they would have the same effect
>> as the juice. I take them because they contain antioxidants.
>
> The juice eliminated my gout in 3 days. It's not the antioxidants. Cherry
> juice has the ability to dissolve uric acid crystals which is what gout is.
> Not sure what the active component is.
Two years ago my wife had to go off all medication because of a problem
she was having, and that included her arthritis medication. She drank
cherry juice instead and thought that it was doing as good a job as the
medication.
Julie Bove
"Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:imotpq$6r1$1...@dont-email.me...
I know about the juice. I don't need it. I don't have gout. But I would
never recommend that a diabetic drink it. I bought some for my husband but
he refused to drink it.
Steve Pope
>"Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote in message
>> The juice eliminated my gout in 3 days. It's not the antioxidants.
>> Cherry juice has the ability to dissolve uric acid crystals which is what
>> gout is. Not sure what the active component is.
>I know about the juice. I don't need it. I don't have gout. But I would
>never recommend that a diabetic drink it. I bought some for my husband but
>he refused to drink it.
There is some science behind the cherry juice gout treatment belief.
But I do not know if it has been proven. (My doctor warned me not
to drink mega quantities of cherry juice, since the fructose
can definitely aggravate gout.)
I think it's something that could be in a gout sufferer's bag of tricks,
but not a mainstay of long-term care (I place it in the same
category as colchicine and alkalinizing one's urine).
Steve
Landon
<juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
>Years ago I used to get a veggie pizza at the Presidio when we lived in CA.
>I would go to the commissary to shop after eating the pizza and then have a
>hypo!
I was stationed at the Presidio from 71 to 74. I lived over the garage
of an estate in Marin City. The place was very much out of its
element. The estate was built by the Grandfather of the lady who owned
it when I lived there. She was 101. Her daughter actually ran the
place. It was a very interesting time of my life.
If you remember where the "Finance" building was, I was in the MP
company at the far right end of that row of buildings.
You made a flood of memories come back to me! If there is one thing
that San Francisco has, its food! Lots of great food!
I also lived about halfway down California Avenue, San Bruno, Redwood
City and South City for awhile.
Thanks for the memory jog!
Landon
>Landon <lan...@noreply.com> wrote:
>
>>>I wouldn't wish gout on the enemy!
>>>
>>>Get well quick,
>>>
>>>Best,
>>>
>>>Andy
>>
>> Thanks Andy! I got the Extravaganza of course. Egg in the crust, lots
>> of cheese and meat. Like I *wanted* gout! It used to only be my left
>> big toe, but this time it got my entire left ankle.
>>
>> I don't know what got into me!
>
>
>Landen,
>
>You asked for it! You got it! :(
>
>I do easily understand the desire to test the waters.
>
>Best,
>
>Andy
Thanks Andy. Yeah, once in awhile, I get these crazy urges. I've got
to start listening to the little good Angel on my other shoulder!
Julie Bove
Actually we lived in Alameda about 8 to 12 years ago. The Presidio was
closed by then as a military base but did have some things there for our use
at least for a few years. And then those things closed too. There was a
grocery store at the Oakland Army Base when we first moved there but that
closed soon after. Travis AFB was the next closest place. It was a good 2
hour drive so we only went there a few times a year.
Landon
wrote:
Thanks Paul. I've been downing some blueberry juice today, but being
diabetic puts the brakes to too much fruit juice.
I swear, sometimes my body hates me.
Landon
<juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
>>> Get yourself a big bottle of 100% pure cherry juice. Not juice from
>>> concentrate. Just pure cherry juice. Drink several glasse sa day. Your
>>> gout should improve quickly. I used it to cure my toe goiut some years
>>> ago and it was a miracle cure.
>You're telling a diabetic to drink cherry juice? He may as well just shoot
>himself. The death will be quicker and much less painful.
>
>I do take tart cherry pills. Not sure if they would have the same effect as
>the juice. I take them because they contain antioxidants.
Thanks Julie. I just answered him with that information, then I saw
your post saying the same thing. :) I think maybe he missed the fact
that I'm diabetic.
Landon
<spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Considering an entire large Domino's pizza could contain over 9 grams
>of sodium, I wonder if landon's ankles could have been swollen, adding
>to the pain of gout.
I take a "water" pill every morning, so water retention isn't a
problem. 9 grams of sodium.....oh man.....I've been very bad... :(
Steve Pope
I stocked up before the price went up. It goes down again in
another year or so -- it is only a three-year ripoff.
Steve
Sky
Generic colchicine is very inexpensive ! Spouse has had gout for nearly
two decades and never has colchicine cost much at all. In all those
years, never have either of us heard of "Colcrys" until today due to
this thread on RFC! It appears the 'marketing' folks have made changes
when the medication itself hasn't changed! ?! Seems it's all a 'bottom
line' issue when it comes to medications!
Steve Pope
>Generic colchicine is very inexpensive ! Spouse has had gout for nearly
>two decades and never has colchicine cost much at all. In all those
>years, never have either of us heard of "Colcrys" until today due to
>this thread on RFC! It appears the 'marketing' folks have made changes
>when the medication itself hasn't changed! ?! Seems it's all a 'bottom
>line' issue when it comes to medications!
Generic colchicine is unavailable in the U.S. at present, due to
a 3-year exclusive deal Congress gave some pharma sharks.
Wikipedia says a bottle of 100 now costs $475.
Steve
Sky
OMG! Say what ?! Egads & more! OUCH! Thankfully (knock on wood!) -
DH does have a bit of stash re: the colchicine and hopefully he'll never
need to use it! Even more thankfully, he's not had to use colchicine
lately! !! DANG!
Sky, who's astounded!
P.S. Next thing known - aspirin (salicylic acid) will cost more than
gold! Hold dear those willow trees!
Paul M. Cook
So am I. Not like I don't know what diabetes is.
Paul
Paul M. Cook
True. But that is why you need to spread it out. I can drink about 6
ounces of raw cherry juice and won;t suffer a big spike. Raw juice is not
really all that sweet. In fact somtimes I cut it with water because it can
be so tart.
> I swear, sometimes my body hates me.
Well if you can't do juice the meds available work pretty good. You can
also focus on altering the pH of your urine from acid to alkaline. Possibly
your uric acid level is too high? A diet heavy in red meat will do that.
Paul
sf
wrote:
> OMG! Say what ?! Egads & more! OUCH! Thankfully (knock on wood!) -
> DH does have a bit of stash re: the colchicine and hopefully he'll never
> need to use it! Even more thankfully, he's not had to use colchicine
> lately! !! DANG!
Now I'm confused. I thought that stuff was a pill you'd take every
day.
>
> Sky, who's astounded!
>
> P.S. Next thing known - aspirin (salicylic acid) will cost more than
> gold! Hold dear those willow trees!
--
Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
Sky
I spoke with a few different local pharmacies this evening after reading
your post. Seems there is (has been) a change when it comes to
'colchicine' -- however, it's not as drastic as it first seemed. Since
there is a good supply of the (former) "generic" colchicine still
available on the market (read supply on hand?), it has to be exhausted
first before the "new" (cough, cough) version can be supplied at new
prices (??) that are much higher! That's the gist I understood by
speaking with one pharmacist.
Colchicine has been around for a long, long time to treat gout, but
since it hasn't been studied enough (.... and approved by the FDA!!!!)
- or something like that (so I understand???) -- the pharmaceutical
companies (????) have twisted the FDA to allow them to now charge
premium prices (???) think of Viagra!!!!! How true this is, I'm not
sure - but it seems a whole bunch of malarkey to me since some
company(s) can make big time bucks! "Me" smells something nasty!
Sky, who's rather outraged
Steve Pope
>On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 00:31:12 -0500, Sky <skyh...@NOsbcglobal.SnPeAtM>
>> OMG! Say what ?! Egads & more! OUCH! Thankfully (knock on wood!) -
>> DH does have a bit of stash re: the colchicine and hopefully he'll never
>> need to use it! Even more thankfully, he's not had to use colchicine
>> lately! !! DANG!
>
>Now I'm confused. I thought that stuff was a pill you'd take every
>day.
In some cases, yes one takes a colchicine pill every day, in fact
they have combination pills with colchicine and other gout medicines,
intended for long-term use.
But in most cases, one does not take it long term -- usually it's several
pills a day for just several days during a gout episode; or one pill a day
for a few weeks (when starting/stopping other meds, or prophylactically when
traveling or otherwise stressing your gout).
The fact that one might not need an entire bottle of 100 is no
excuse for them making it that expensive.
Steve
Steve Pope
>I spoke with a few different local pharmacies this evening after reading
>your post. Seems there is (has been) a change when it comes to
>'colchicine' -- however, it's not as drastic as it first seemed. Since
>there is a good supply of the (former) "generic" colchicine still
>available on the market (read supply on hand?), it has to be exhausted
>first before the "new" (cough, cough) version can be supplied at new
>prices (??) that are much higher! That's the gist I understood by
>speaking with one pharmacist.
Yeah, the HMO's saw the price increase coming and laid up a supply
of it. I'm not sure whether they're passing the savings along
to their members. Maybe the larger pharmacy chains did the same.
Steve
Landon
(Steve Pope) wrote:
>Yeah, the HMO's saw the price increase coming and laid up a supply
>of it. I'm not sure whether they're passing the savings along
>to their members. Maybe the larger pharmacy chains did the same.
>
>Steve
A few years ago, I saw an interview with a retired executive from one
of the largest pharmaceutical companies on TV. When asked "Why do
companies like yours charge so much for pills that are made at a
fraction of the cost and where all of the discovery costs have already
been recouped?"
His answer was as honest as can be:
"They charge whatever the traffic will bear"
When this marketing principle is used to sell shirts, I couldn't care
less. However, when it's used for life saving drugs, it really pisses
me off.
Mark Thorson
>
> Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> >Meat and cheese in excess can both cause gout.
> >Add eggs, and the list is nearly complete.
>
> Where are you getting this? Cheese is almost purine-free and
> eggs are fairly low purine.
Any high-protein food such as cheese can cause gout.
It is the organic nitrogen -- present in all amino
acids -- which causes gout. Pound-for-pound.
purine-rich foods generate more nitrogenous waste
because purines also have organic nitrogen, but
it is certainly possible to have a gout attack
triggered solely by diet, even if that diet is
purine-free. Cheese and eggs are major hazards
to avoid with regard to gout.
Mark Thorson
>
> Generic colchicine is unavailable in the U.S. at present, due to
> a 3-year exclusive deal Congress gave some pharma sharks.
>
> Wikipedia says a bottle of 100 now costs $475.
Nobody under competent medical supervision
would ever use 100. A sensible prescription
would be 1 or 2. More than that would create
the risk a desperate patient might overdose.
Even at the current price, the cost of 1 or 2
is swamped by the co-pay.
notbob
> triggered solely by diet, even if that diet is
> purine-free.
No such thing.
nb
notbob
> would ever use 100. A sensible prescription
> would be 1 or 2.
Oh, so you're a board certified rheumatologist, now. I did not know
that.
nb
spamtrap1888
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 06:34:19 +0000 (UTC), spop...@speedymail.org
I'm more lenient because Big Pharma needs to fund R&D going forward.
My problem is that the cost of R&D is bundled into the US price of
pills, because governments (providing universal health care) around
the world are able to beat the price down closer to the cost of
production. We are truly Uncle Sugar when it comes to funding pill R&D.
Storrmmee
everyone would do what universal health care states did in just the meds
area everyone would be better off, Lee
"spamtrap1888" <spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:84f5324a-698f-4c5a...@j13g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
Storrmmee
wants big bucks, Lee
"Mark Thorson" <nos...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4D90AB56...@sonic.net...
sf
(Steve Pope) wrote:
> sf <sf.u...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 00:31:12 -0500, Sky <skyh...@NOsbcglobal.SnPeAtM>
>
> >> OMG! Say what ?! Egads & more! OUCH! Thankfully (knock on wood!) -
> >> DH does have a bit of stash re: the colchicine and hopefully he'll never
> >> need to use it! Even more thankfully, he's not had to use colchicine
> >> lately! !! DANG!
> >
> >Now I'm confused. I thought that stuff was a pill you'd take every
> >day.
>
> In some cases, yes one takes a colchicine pill every day, in fact
> they have combination pills with colchicine and other gout medicines,
> intended for long-term use.
>
> But in most cases, one does not take it long term -- usually it's several
> pills a day for just several days during a gout episode; or one pill a day
> for a few weeks (when starting/stopping other meds, or prophylactically when
> traveling or otherwise stressing your gout).
Hubby has Endomycin that he uses when he gets a gout attack, but it
makes him lethargic and puts him to sleep. That's why I was
interested in the colchicine.
>
> The fact that one might not need an entire bottle of 100 is no
> excuse for them making it that expensive.
>
Agreed. From previous posts, it sounds like the lobbyists made a
sweetheart deal for a couple of years.
sf
wrote:
> Any high-protein food such as cheese can cause gout.
> It is the organic nitrogen -- present in all amino
> acids -- which causes gout. Pound-for-pound.
> purine-rich foods generate more nitrogenous waste
> because purines also have organic nitrogen, but
> it is certainly possible to have a gout attack
> triggered solely by diet, even if that diet is
> purine-free. Cheese and eggs are major hazards
> to avoid with regard to gout.
Everyone has their personal triggers for gout attacks. For hubby,
it's shellfish.
sf
He could have said "relatively" purine free.
Mark Thorson
>
> On 28 Mar 2011 14:50:37 GMT, notbob <not...@notbob.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On 2011-03-28, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
> >
> > > triggered solely by diet, even if that diet is
> > > purine-free.
> >
> > No such thing.
> >
> He could have said "relatively" purine free.
I did say "even if". I did not say "like any
purine-free diet you can pick up at Safeway".
Any living organism eaten as food will have
DNA, RNA, and some amino acids that contain
purine structures.
sf
wrote:
> I did say "even if". I did not say "like any
> purine-free diet you can pick up at Safeway".
>
> Any living organism eaten as food will have
> DNA, RNA, and some amino acids that contain
> purine structures.
I know. You'd starve to death if you avoided all purines.
Steve Pope
>Hubby has Endomycin that he uses when he gets a gout attack, but it
>makes him lethargic and puts him to sleep. That's why I was
>interested in the colchicine.
I'm pretty sure you mean indomethacin, not endomycin.
Neither indomethacin nor colchicine is a long-term gout treatment;
these are symptomatic treatments that do not control uric acid levels and
will not stop long-term progression of the disease.
I strongly recommend getting the uric acid levels under control
with appropriate meds. Otherwise there is a possibility down the
road of persistent arthritis, tophi, and other serious symptoms.
Steve
Landon
>Everyone has their personal triggers for gout attacks. For hubby,
>it's shellfish.
For me, the only sure trigger is Asparagus. If I eat it, the next
morning, the left big toe feels like I smacked it with a hammer!
I'm talking a single normal serving of it. It's a shame too. I love
the stuff! When the fresh is on sale, I have to talk myself out of
buying it. Grilled is my absolute favorite way to eat it. Slightly
charred over smoky coals.
sf
So, what is the name of the daily medication that people with gout
take so they can eat their favorite gout producing foods again?
notbob
> So, what is the name of the daily medication that people with gout
> take so they can eat their favorite gout producing foods again?
For the nine hundred and eleventy-jillionth time, allupurinal.
nb
Landon
>On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:22:46 -0800, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net>
>wrote:
>
>> I did say "even if". I did not say "like any
>> purine-free diet you can pick up at Safeway".
>>
>> Any living organism eaten as food will have
>> DNA, RNA, and some amino acids that contain
>> purine structures.
>
>I know. You'd starve to death if you avoided all purines.
I'm thinking of it today. When I awoke this morning, my entire left
foot felt like a truck ran over it. I almost had to crawl to the
restroom. By the time I made it there, I was sweating profusely from
the pain.
During the day, it's now backed off to only a dull pain when I bend it
forward. The same thing yesterday.
I may call the Doc tomorrow if its still not backed off. He'll call in
a script for me without making me come in to see him. He and I trust
one another. He knows I won't BS him and I think he's a genius. He's
so smart, sometimes he's kinda scary. Like the fictional "House" but
likeable.
Mark Thorson
>
> I may call the Doc tomorrow if its still not backed off. He'll call in
> a script for me without making me come in to see him. He and I trust
> one another. He knows I won't BS him and I think he's a genius. He's
> so smart, sometimes he's kinda scary. Like the fictional "House" but
> likeable.
I don't think he'll have anything for you, except
perhaps to prevent the next attack, especially if
you wait until tomorrow. Gout is like frostbite,
in that tiny crystals are damaging tissue. Once
the damage is done, nothing is going to cure that
except healing.
If you want something to do right now, avoid working
the joint and avoid protein-rich food. I've found
Advil to be helpful with the pain.
Mark Thorson
For the second time, it's spelled "allopurinol".
notbob
> For the second time, it's spelled "allopurinol".
Thank you, booring spelling knotzi.
nb
M.afaqanjum<
I'm more than familiar with
the act of "crawling". After an unnecessary spinal tap by an idiot doc
and changing health plans, I got competent care.
I hope you are on allipurinol and have no more problems. I've not had
an attack for almost 15 yrs and eat/drink EVERYTHINGthat a recurrence of
gout while recovering
from an attack is often worse than the original
attack. I'd say you
--
M.afaqanjum<s>
sf
Thank you.
sf
>
> I'm thinking of it today. When I awoke this morning, my entire left
> foot felt like a truck ran over it. I almost had to crawl to the
> restroom. By the time I made it there, I was sweating profusely from
> the pain.
>
> During the day, it's now backed off to only a dull pain when I bend it
> forward. The same thing yesterday.
>
> I may call the Doc tomorrow if its still not backed off. He'll call in
> a script for me without making me come in to see him. He and I trust
> one another. He knows I won't BS him and I think he's a genius. He's
> so smart, sometimes he's kinda scary. Like the fictional "House" but
> likeable.
What does he prescribe when you're in pain like that and why aren't
you taking Allopurinol?
Landon
wrote:
>Landon wrote:
I have a pot of homemade chicken/vegetable/noodle soup simmering. I
put just enough chicken in it to flavor it some. I'll eat that this
evening and tomorrow and see how I do.
After the first few hours this morning, it backed off pretty good to
just a dull pain if I bend it. From past experience, that's a sign it
will be better the next day for me.
We'll see tomorrow morning... Thanks for the advice. It's appreciated
very much.
Landon
Your posts are appearing to me as being cut off at the end of each of
them.
"I'd say you" is the end of the post I see on my viewer.
Are they doing this to anyone else or is it just me?
Landon
I just use "Mind over matter" for the pain. I hate taking pain pills.
They make me feel like a zombie.
I haven't had a gout attack in so long, he wasn't my Doctor the last
time I had an attack.
Due to my medical problems, I take 12 pills a day. I don't know if
Allopurinol would conflict with any of them or if it would aggravate
any of the problems I have. I'll have to see how the Doc feels about
it. He may give me something else instead. He'll give me a couple pain
pills too, but he knows I won't take them unless the pain gets like it
was this morning again.
ViLco
> this is my gripe, why is the US paying for the entire world's r/d.
It's not the US who pay for R&D, it's big pharma who pays for it, and
their rakin' in bigtime for licenses on the drugs theyr R&D discovers.
No charity that I can see, here.
> if
> everyone would do what universal health care states did in just the meds
> area everyone would be better off, Lee
Sure, and there are many big pharma corporations outside the US, too
--
Vilco
And the Family Stone
Mi devo ubriacare per spiegartelo?
sf
> I just use "Mind over matter" for the pain. I hate taking pain pills.
Oh, good god, Landon... you're sounding too much like my husband. :)
> They make me feel like a zombie.
I know. The one hubby takes for gout pain puts him to sleep too.
AFAIC, I'd rather be asleep and not feel pain than awake and in pain.
>
> I haven't had a gout attack in so long, he wasn't my Doctor the last
> time I had an attack.
Hubby has controlled his with diet too, but he has so many foods he
loves that he just can't eat anymore and has cut back drastically on
the rest. That's no fun!
>
> Due to my medical problems, I take 12 pills a day. I don't know if
> Allopurinol would conflict with any of them or if it would aggravate
> any of the problems I have. I'll have to see how the Doc feels about
> it. He may give me something else instead. He'll give me a couple pain
> pills too, but he knows I won't take them unless the pain gets like it
> was this morning again.
Consult with your Dr. first, of course.... and do your own research
too. I told my husband that he's taking an arsenal of pills anyway so
he should just add it to what he takes on a daily basis. It's part of
the price we pay for getting older. It also turns out he has had a
bottle of Allopurinol all along that he never opened. It is out of
date now, so he'll have to call the Dr. for a new prescription.
sf
When you see that sort of thing, look at where it came from.
Foodbanter. At least that reply made it to the correct thread. Most
of the time Foodbanter comments don't include context and are often
obviously posted to the wrong thread because it's just a random
thought coming out of left field.
spamtrap1888
> Il 28/03/2011 17:41, Storrmmee ha scritto:
>
> > this is my gripe, why is the US paying for the entire world's r/d.
>
> It's not the US who pay for R&D, it's big pharma who pays for it, and
> their rakin' in bigtime for licenses on the drugs theyr R&D discovers.
> No charity that I can see, here.
Vilco's prescription drugs cost little more than half what they would
in the US:
Nation Other nations’ prescription drug prices as % of U.S. prices
Italy 52.1%
France 57.4%
Canada 63.3%
United
Kingdom 65.7%
Sweden 67.9%
Germany 69.5%
Switzerland 76.5%
United States 100.0%
Source: The 1997 price ratios were calculated from Patented Medicine
Prices Review Board, Trends in Patented Drug Prices, Ottawa: The
Board,
September 1998, PMPRB Study Series S-9811, data in Figure 11. The 1998
ratios were calculated from Patented Medicine Prices Review Board,
Eleventh Annual Report, Year Ending December 21, 1998, Ottawa: The
Board, 1999, p. 21, figure 9. The data reported in this exhibit for
each
nation are the means of the ratios calculated for 1997 and 1998.
Prices are weighted by net sales.
> > if
>
> > everyone would do what universal health care states did in just the meds
> > area everyone would be better off, Lee
>
> Sure, and there are many big pharma corporations outside the US, too
They come to the US to recoup their R&D investment.
sf
I thought the countries above subsidize their medicine and that's why
it seems to cost less. They pay higher taxes to have socialized
medicine... so they pay, but they pay differently.
Steve Pope
>So, what is the name of the daily medication that people with gout
>take so they can eat their favorite gout producing foods again?
The two most common first-line meds are allipurinol and probenecid. I am
taking probenecid, which has the lower side-effect profile of the two,
but requires a 24-hour urine catch test before starting it. Because
allipurinol does not require that particular test, it is probably
prescribed more often.
There are a few others, including some that are quite new on the
market that are being used either as first-line meds, or second-line
meds for treatment-resistant gout.
Once one is on one of these meds, there are basically two approaches:
continue with an anti-gout diet, or ignore the diet and figure the
meds are taking care of it. People seem about evenly split between these
two approaches. Either way one indefinitely monitors serum uric acid at
least annually to make sure the treatment plan is working.
Steve
Doug Freyburger
> Storrmmee ha scritto:
>
>> this is my gripe, why is the US paying for the entire world's r/d.
>
> It's not the US who pay for R&D, it's big pharma who pays for it, and
And that money comes from where? US customers. Check.
> their rakin' in bigtime for licenses on the drugs theyr R&D discovers.
> No charity that I can see, here.
No charity on the part of the big pharma companies. The charity is on
the part of the US which funds medicine development on the backs of US
customers for the benefit of the rest of the world.
Steve Pope
>On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:36:41 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:22:46 -0800, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net>
>>wrote:
>>> I did say "even if". I did not say "like any
>>> purine-free diet you can pick up at Safeway".
>>> Any living organism eaten as food will have
>>> DNA, RNA, and some amino acids that contain
>>> purine structures.
>>I know. You'd starve to death if you avoided all purines.
>I'm thinking of it today. When I awoke this morning, my entire left
>foot felt like a truck ran over it. I almost had to crawl to the
>restroom. By the time I made it there, I was sweating profusely from
>the pain.
>During the day, it's now backed off to only a dull pain when I bend it
>forward. The same thing yesterday.
>I may call the Doc tomorrow if its still not backed off. He'll call in
>a script for me without making me come in to see him. He and I trust
>one another.
Ouch. Until the doc gives you something better I'd recommend Naproxen.
The maximum dose is 1000 mg/day. Or ibuprofen up to 2000 mg/day.
These are the prescription maximum doses.
Unfortunately you cannot combine either of these painkillers with
colchicine.
Good luck, and I hope it settles down soon.
Steve
Janet
says...
>
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:56:48 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> <spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Vilco's prescription drugs cost little more than half what they would
> > in the US:
> >
> >
> > Italy 52.1%
> > France 57.4%
> > Canada 63.3%
> > United
> > Kingdom 65.7%
> > Sweden 67.9%
> > Germany 69.5%
> > Switzerland 76.5%
> > United States 100.0%
>
> it seems to cost less. They pay higher taxes to have socialized
> medicine... so they pay, but they pay differently.
I think you'll find the above compares the price manufacturers sell the
drugs for ( to pharmacies etc). Not, comparing what the patient pays for
the prescription.
Janet.
Steve Pope
>I thought the countries above subsidize their medicine and that's why
>it seems to cost less. They pay higher taxes to have socialized
>medicine... so they pay, but they pay differently.
The U.S. pays more for healthcare than essentially any other country.
This includes paying more for medications (both higher prices for
the same medications, and paying for more expensive medications
that other places in the world deem unnecessisary). It also includes
paying way more for research than is necessary. Big pharma more than pays
its gignormous research bills with money from the public (much of which
comes from taxpayers).
It is not true that other countries need higher taxes to pay their
healthcare costs. The problem in the U.S. is on the spending side --
our healthcare systems burns through too much money due to corruption,
mismanagement, and waste. The U.S. expends 17% of its economy
on healthcare, and 55% of that is government-funded. More reasonable
countries expend 7% to 10% on healthcare.
Steve
spamtrap1888
Governments other than the US control prices two ways: either using
volume purchase leverage for single-payer systems, or by controlling
selling prices. Only in the US can pharma cos charge "whatever the
traffic will bear."
Leon Manfredi
Ridiculouse.... taking 12 pills per day, as I unknowingly did,
till I dicovered a Doc that represcribed the same or similar pills,
to a one a day...
Simvastatin, Lisinopril, Allopurinal....with food a suppertime.
Tamsuosin, 1/2 hour after food intake, at regular bedtine hour.
Leon Manfredi
There seems to be a lot of unecessary pain here!
Demand the one a day pills.... Or get a new doc!!!!
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:47:20 -0800, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net>
wrote:
>Landon wrote:
Leon Manfredi
When starting on new medication, one needs to give it time to work.
It's not like taking a pain killer.....which could conflict.
As of this date, and for quite some time (at this ripe age of 88),
I am able to eat everything, including ham, and the kitchen sink,
without reservation, as the 'ole saying goes.... As long I continue
with my earlier post of prescription pill intake.
Landon
I hear you sf. I'm thankful to be alive. Events and people have tried
to prevent it many times in my life and somehow, I made it through it
all in one piece....sort of.
Right now, it hardly even hurts. If I bent it very far, I guess it
would, but I'm not trying that theory. I'll see if it starts screaming
again in the morning.
Landon
wrote:
>
>Ridiculous.... taking 12 pills per day, as I unknowingly did,
>till I dicovered a Doc that represcribed the same or similar pills,
>to a one a day...
>
>Simvastatin, Lisinopril, Allopurinal....with food a suppertime.
>Tamsuosin, 1/2 hour after food intake, at regular bedtine hour.
I wish. The pills were slowly added over several years to keep my body
from killing me. Each are necessary. I take six in the morning and six
at night, but 3 of the night time meds are duplicates of morning meds.
I have to take them twice a day to keep the levels up in by system.
Its cool though. I asked the Doc how long I might live if the meds
continue to control things as they are now and he said I should be
able to see 85 or so. Heck, that's good with me! By then, they'll have
found other ways to extend it so I can see the 100 I want to. :)