french press mishaps
coffee_...@my-dejanews.com
I see that the Bodum french press sold at Starbucks has been redesigned. I
had a nasty accident using the older model and was severely scalded. Has
anyone else had a problem?
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JM
coffee_...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>I see that the Bodum french press sold at Starbucks has been redesigned. I
>had a nasty accident using the older model and was severely scalded. Has
>anyone else had a problem?
Yes. Last year the (extremely) hot water spurted out of the spout of my
French press and doused the underside of my entire right arm. I had first
and second degree burns on the arm, although fortunately it healed without
terrible scarring.
Be careful of those things!!
Joan
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Robbyn
In article <2268D289D8D49B14.5CAA02F9...@library-proxy.airnews.net>, jo...@iname.com (JM) wrote:
>coffee_...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>>I see that the Bodum french press sold at Starbucks has been redesigned. I
>>had a nasty accident using the older model and was severely scalded. Has
>>anyone else had a problem?
>
>Yes. Last year the (extremely) hot water spurted out of the spout of my
>French press and doused the underside of my entire right arm. I had first
>and second degree burns on the arm, although fortunately it healed without
>terrible scarring.
Yikes! I've been using a French Press for years and have never had a
problem. Am I doing something wrong? :)
Robbyn (who does have burn scars from a plate of hot pancakes)
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back into the same box.
E-mail address intentionally messed with.
Remove the "bit-bucket" to send a letter.
Maria and Tom
JM wrote:
>
> coffee_...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> >I see that the Bodum french press sold at Starbucks has been redesigned. I
> >had a nasty accident using the older model and was severely scalded. Has
> >anyone else had a problem?
Make sure the screen and coil are in good shape. Over time, these will
wear and shoot unpleasantly hot coffee up towards your face as you
plunge them! Not a great way to wake up. As far as haveing coffee shoot
out the spout when you plunge, that's user error. If you overfill, you
can tip the thing back to avoid this when you begin the plunging. Tom
--
------------the best coffee is roasted at home--------------
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TJ
Robbyn wrote:
>
> In article <2268D289D8D49B14.5CAA02F9...@library-proxy.airnews.net>, jo...@iname.com (JM) wrote:
> >Yes. Last year the (extremely) hot water spurted out of the spout of my
> >French press and doused the underside of my entire right arm. I had first
> >and second degree burns on the arm, although fortunately it healed without
> >terrible scarring.
>
> Yikes! I've been using a French Press for years and have never had a
> problem. Am I doing something wrong? :)
Your French press probably has a sensible bell-like lid that 'takes the
heat' and protects your little army-warmy.
tj
MrsFu...@my-dejanews.com
In article <6npsef$ckb$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
m...@alum.mit.edu wrote:
>
> I see that the Bodum french press sold at Starbucks has been redesigned. I
> had a nasty accident using the older model and was severely scalded. Has
> anyone else had a problem?
>
> http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
>
I don't know if this is what happened to you, but my glass carafe kept
slipping out of its plastic frame. So far, I've been lucky though- no major
accidents. Just to be safe though, I've stopped using it. I wonder if
Starbucks would take these back?
Paul Craig Sanwald
:
: I don't know if this is what happened to you, but my glass carafe kept
: slipping out of its plastic frame. So far, I've been lucky though- no major
Same damn thing happens to me, especially when I'm trying to clean the
thing. :) oh well.
--paul
coffee_...@my-dejanews.com
Au contraire, tj. The lid on the traditional french press is not sensible
and does not protect anyone's "little army-warmy."
Most people have the traditional french press. The lid of the plunger has
a short lip. It's way too short, so short as to make the plunger
unstable--liable to slip and tip sideways instead of going straight down. If
the plunger slips, watch out--you get blasted with near-boiling brew!
Perhaps you were lucky enough to get a warning/instruction leaflet packed
inside your Bodum french press (unlikely if it came from Starbucks, where the
warnings are deliberately removed). The leaflet would tell you to plunge the
plunger with one hand, which seems simple enough. The other hand has to do
some tricky maneuvering. It must: (1) hold the carafe's handle, and (2) with
the thumb, press down on the lid (to stabilize and keep the plunger from
slipping and tipping sideways), while simultaneously (3) twisting the spout
(90 degrees) so that it's pointing away from you.
Only (1) is intuitively obvious. Users might reasonably try to hold the the
french press the way one holds a pitcher--with thumb wrapped around the
handle and the spout pointing to the side. Maneuvers (2) and (3) are
counter-intuitive.
TJ and others scoff, but I think the design of traditional french press is
profoundly stupid. Want proof? Now Bodum is touting a model with a new,
improved "safety lid." What's new? A longer lip. A simple fix, but it
stabilizes the plunger and keeps it going straight down through the brew--and
proves that the traditional design is defective.
mms
Pat Traynor
> >
> > [ ... ]
>
> Au contraire, tj. The lid on the traditional french press is not sensible
> and does not protect anyone's "little army-warmy."
>
> Most people have the traditional french press. The lid of the plunger has
> a short lip. It's way too short, so short as to make the plunger
> unstable--liable to slip and tip sideways instead of going straight down. If
> the plunger slips, watch out--you get blasted with near-boiling brew!
It seems to me that if you have one of these "traditional" french
presses, you might be well off to find a non-traditional one. I have to
assume that this is what I have, because I've never had even a "close
call" in three years.
I have two presses. We have one that is very "chrome" looking. It
makes about 3 good-sized mugs of coffee. I usually rest my fingers on
the top to give it stability while I plunge. The other press is larger,
more like 5 mugs and is more of a black plastic model. This one is VERY
stable.
I spent $14 for the chrome one and $20 for the plastic one. Not a lot
of money to spend for some added safety if you'd like to chuck the
traditional one.
--pat--
--
Pat Traynor
p...@ssih.com
di...@nospam.rmi.net
>
> In article <6nrsrf$hfd$3...@news-1.news.gte.net>,
> tsi...@gte.net wrote:
> >
> > Robbyn wrote:
> > >
> > > In article
> <2268D289D8D49B14.5CAA02F9...@library-proxy.airnews.net>,
> jo...@iname.com (JM) wrote:
> >
> > > >Yes. Last year the (extremely) hot water spurted out of the spout of my
> > > >French press and doused the underside of my entire right arm. I had first
> > > >and second degree burns on the arm, although fortunately it healed without
> > > >terrible scarring.
> > >
> > > Yikes! I've been using a French Press for years and have never had a
> > > problem. Am I doing something wrong? :)
> >
> > Your French press probably has a sensible bell-like lid that 'takes the
> > heat' and protects your little army-warmy.
> > tj
> >
>
> and does not protect anyone's "little army-warmy."
>
> Most people have the traditional french press. The lid of the plunger has
> a short lip. It's way too short, so short as to make the plunger
> unstable--liable to slip and tip sideways instead of going straight down. If
> the plunger slips, watch out--you get blasted with near-boiling brew!
>
> inside your Bodum french press (unlikely if it came from Starbucks, where the
> warnings are deliberately removed). The leaflet would tell you to plunge the
> plunger with one hand, which seems simple enough. The other hand has to do
> some tricky maneuvering. It must: (1) hold the carafe's handle, and (2) with
> the thumb, press down on the lid (to stabilize and keep the plunger from
> slipping and tipping sideways), while simultaneously (3) twisting the spout
> (90 degrees) so that it's pointing away from you.
>
> Only (1) is intuitively obvious. Users might reasonably try to hold the the
> french press the way one holds a pitcher--with thumb wrapped around the
> handle and the spout pointing to the side. Maneuvers (2) and (3) are
> counter-intuitive.
>
> TJ and others scoff, but I think the design of traditional french press is
> profoundly stupid. Want proof? Now Bodum is touting a model with a new,
> improved "safety lid." What's new? A longer lip. A simple fix, but it
> stabilizes the plunger and keeps it going straight down through the brew--and
> proves that the traditional design is defective.
>
> mms
>
> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
included all the warnings and owner's manual. The manual recommended
that the press be placed on a firm, level surface. Use one hand to
press down lightly on the lid with the spout pointed away from you and
use the other hand to slowly depress the plunger. I have never had any
problems with it.
Drew
--
Dingo /\~/\
(ö ö)
(~(¥)~)
\ /
Politically INcorrect since 1953
NO JUNK E-MAIL
Remove "nospam." to e-mail me
KKomp2000
traditional French press may wish to look over our Koffee Kozee at
www.koffeekompanions.com.
It not only keeps French-press coffee hotter, longer but also covers the press
while brewing and BEFORE you push down the plunger. Although we DON'T
guarantee that it would protect you against all hot water "gushing" from a
French press, it would certainly stop a lot of it.
Meantime, for those who never have spilled hot water on their "army-warmys"
(I'm one who hasn't), you can enjoy your coffee hotter from first to last cup
with the Kozee.
[Just a thought. Other suggestions here have also been excellent. :-) ]
Irene Luckett, Owner
Koffee Kompanions (TM)
Koffee Kozee for French press and Kup Kollar for takeout cups--uniquely made
with Thinsulate insulation to keep liquids hot or cold longer
web site: www.koffeekompanions.com
Janis Lane
kkom...@aol.com (KKomp2000) wrote:
Commercial deleted....
> Meantime, for those who never have spilled hot water on their
"army-warmys" ....
more commercial deleted....
army-warmys? How repulsive can you get. Who do you
think you are talking to?
j.
--
The opinions I blurt out are mine alone.
Kimberly Konig
of a better word) that is so large it folds up and scrapes along the sides
of the pot. This makes it virtually impossible for the plunger to turn
any way other than vertical. Also, it adds a ton of friction whihc makes
it difficult to plunge very fast at all. So it would seem this mesh thing
is saving us from all kinds of evil.
Meanspirited
I use mine frequently and have never spilled or splashed a drop.
After seeing how a simple device can cause such confusion and concern, I now
understand how so many people fail to comprehend the operating procedures of
an espresso machine.
For anyone who cannot safely use a french press, I must ask for your own sake
that you do not try using anything that requires electricity.
You should also avoid any water faucets labeled "hot", and do not attempt to
use a stove.
There is nothing complicated about slowly pressing the plunger through hot water.
Even when repeating the motion rapidly to aerate milk for a cappuccino, I
simply hold the lid firmly against the glass rim while giving attention to the
direction of the spout.
It does not involve any unusual amount of coordination or mental effort.
I do not consider the ability to use a french press to be a special skill that
one needs to acquire through detailed descriptions and repeated practice.
I used to laugh and criticize the McDonald's customer who was not smart enough
to know not to spill hot coffee in her own lap.
But, unfortunately, I believe that the wealth resulting from the self
inflicted wounds has become the motivation for the next wave of frivolous
lawsuits of which Bodum will be the victim.
In upcoming posts, I will be expecting the next ridiculous complaint to
involve the story of a moron who got the end of his fingers chewed off because
the instructions did not mention the risk of touching moving parts.
> > Robbyn wrote:
> > >
>>>>>>>snip<<<<<<<<
> Most people have the traditional french press. The lid of the plunger has
> a short lip. It's way too short, so short as to make the plunger
> unstable--liable to slip and tip sideways instead of going straight down. If
> the plunger slips, watch out--you get blasted with near-boiling brew!
>
> Perhaps you were lucky enough to get a warning/instruction leaflet packed
> inside your Bodum french press (unlikely if it came from Starbucks, where the
> warnings are deliberately removed). The leaflet would tell you to plunge the
> plunger with one hand, which seems simple enough. The other hand has to do
> some tricky maneuvering. It must: (1) hold the carafe's handle, and (2) with
> the thumb, press down on the lid (to stabilize and keep the plunger from
> slipping and tipping sideways), while simultaneously (3) twisting the spout
> (90 degrees) so that it's pointing away from you.
>
>>>>>>>snip<<<<<<<<<
Franco
snip
> For anyone who cannot safely use a french press, I must ask for your own sake
> that you do not try using anything that requires electricity.
> You should also avoid any water faucets labeled "hot", and do not attempt to
> use a stove.
>
snip
Add sailboats to the list of equipment to be avoided:
My 12' sailboat has a large label near the mast that indicates "Do not
raise mast near power lines. High voltage can be fatal". Now I know
who this label was meant for.
Franco
Brew...@my-dejanews.com
Meanspirited <meansp...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I used to laugh and criticize the McDonald's customer who was not smart enough
> to know not to spill hot coffee in her own lap.
> But, unfortunately, I believe that the wealth resulting from the self
> inflicted wounds has become the motivation for the next wave of frivolous
> lawsuits of which Bodum will be the victim.
I'd like to shed some light on this oft mentioned example regarding coffee.
I don't know how many times people mention it to me, knowing that I'm going
into the coffee business. I heard Ralph Nader lay out the facts. He pointed
out that McDonald's serves their coffee at over 180 degrees when the average
coffee place serves it at around 150 degrees when it reaches the customer.
McDonald's had over 600 serious burn complaints in the past. This elderly
lady was in a parked car and the coffee gave her third degree burns around
her vaginal area that were so severe she needed skin grafts. The award was
reduced considerably by the judge but McDonald's finally got the message that
their coffee was dangerously hot. Coffee that hot doesn't make it better
either, as we know. Just like most news stories, you seldom hear enough facts
to make a clear judgement on the subject. I agree with the jury on this one.
I'm very sympathetic to anyone who'd need skin grafts in their groin area.
David A. Drupa
Meanspirited wrote:
> Is it possible that a french press could be so complicated?
> I use mine frequently and have never spilled or splashed a drop.
> After seeing how a simple device can cause such confusion and concern, I now
> understand how so many people fail to comprehend the operating procedures of
> an espresso machine.
> For anyone who cannot safely use a french press, I must ask for your own sake
> that you do not try using anything that requires electricity.
> You should also avoid any water faucets labeled "hot", and do not attempt to
> use a stove.
>
> There is nothing complicated about slowly pressing the plunger through hot water.
> Even when repeating the motion rapidly to aerate milk for a cappuccino, I
> simply hold the lid firmly against the glass rim while giving attention to the
> direction of the spout.
> It does not involve any unusual amount of coordination or mental effort.
> I do not consider the ability to use a french press to be a special skill that
> one needs to acquire through detailed descriptions and repeated practice.
>
> I used to laugh and criticize the McDonald's customer who was not smart enough
> to know not to spill hot coffee in her own lap.
> But, unfortunately, I believe that the wealth resulting from the self
> inflicted wounds has become the motivation for the next wave of frivolous
> lawsuits of which Bodum will be the victim.
>
> In upcoming posts, I will be expecting the next ridiculous complaint to
> involve the story of a moron who got the end of his fingers chewed off because
> the instructions did not mention the risk of touching moving parts.
>
> > > Robbyn wrote:
> > > >
> >>>>>>>snip<<<<<<<<
>
> > Most people have the traditional french press. The lid of the plunger has
> > a short lip. It's way too short, so short as to make the plunger
> > unstable--liable to slip and tip sideways instead of going straight down. If
> > the plunger slips, watch out--you get blasted with near-boiling brew!
> >
> > Perhaps you were lucky enough to get a warning/instruction leaflet packed
> > inside your Bodum french press (unlikely if it came from Starbucks, where the
> > warnings are deliberately removed). The leaflet would tell you to plunge the
> > plunger with one hand, which seems simple enough. The other hand has to do
> > some tricky maneuvering. It must: (1) hold the carafe's handle, and (2) with
> > the thumb, press down on the lid (to stabilize and keep the plunger from
> > slipping and tipping sideways), while simultaneously (3) twisting the spout
> > (90 degrees) so that it's pointing away from you.
> >
> >>>>>>>snip<<<<<<<<<
> >
> > TJ and others scoff, but I think the design of traditional french press is
> > profoundly stupid. Want proof? Now Bodum is touting a model with a new,
> > improved "safety lid." What's new? A longer lip. A simple fix, but it
> > stabilizes the plunger and keeps it going straight down through the brew--and
> > proves that the traditional design is defective.
> >
> > mms
> >
PENMART10
>I'm very sympathetic to anyone who'd need skin grafts in their groin area.
Me too! Me too! Me too!
Ahahahahahahaha. . . .
Sheldon
````````````
On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line:
"I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."
Linda Mundy
Meanspirited wrote:
> Is it possible that a french press could be so complicated?
> I use mine frequently and have never spilled or splashed a drop.
> After seeing how a simple device can cause such confusion and concern, I now
> understand how so many people fail to comprehend the operating procedures of
> an espresso machine.
> For anyone who cannot safely use a french press, I must ask for your own sake
> that you do not try using anything that requires electricity.
> You should also avoid any water faucets labeled "hot", and do not attempt to
> use a stove.
>
> There is nothing complicated about slowly pressing the plunger through hot water.
[... rest deleted for brevity...]
It may depend on the model you have. Years ago I had one of the expensive ones (it
used to be the only brand available, but darned if I can remember the name) and
never had a problem with it. Later, I had another, larger, less expensive one and
still
had no problems. So up to that point I would have agreed with you. But just 3
months
ago, when my electric drip coffeemaker went kaput, I bought a $15 french press at
Peet's, one that uses red plastic instead of metal for the lid and the part holding
the
glass carafe. Anyway, with this new one, I have for the first time had the
experience
of having the hot coffee splash up at me when I was using the plunger, even when I
was being extremely careful to do it slow and easy.
To the original poster(s): try another model, it may make a great deal of
difference.
If you don't want to buy one before knowing that it will work for you, try to find
someone who has one and will let you test it. There are lots of variables. Maybe
the coffee is ground too fine, and/or you are using too much coffee for the press
to handle well -- that could slow down the ability of the water to go through the
filter and grounds as you press down on the plunger, and then cause a sudden
spurt when the pressure is too great.
My own solution was to get another electric drip coffeemaker.
--Linda Mundy
http://www.webtraders.com
Kaari Jae
I don't drink coffee but I do own a french press. I have friends coming
over soon who like coffee. Now could you tell me what type of coffee is
best used with the french press? Finely ground? Coarsly ground or what??
T I A
Kaari
--
======================================================================
Please remove the 8899 from my name before you reply. Thank you :)
------------------------------------------------------------
What if you slept? And what if, in your sleep, you dreamed?
And what if, in your dream you went to heaven and there
plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if,
when you awoke, you had the flower in your hand?
Ah, what then?
(Coleridge)
=================================================
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - -
Franco
it. You have to experiment with grind, brew time, brew temperature,
coffee quantity.
Franco
Franco
> I'd like to shed some light on this oft mentioned example regarding coffee.
> I don't know how many times people mention it to me, knowing that I'm going
> into the coffee business. I heard Ralph Nader lay out the facts. He pointed
> out that McDonald's serves their coffee at over 180 degrees when the average
> coffee place serves it at around 150 degrees when it reaches the customer.
> McDonald's had over 600 serious burn complaints in the past. This elderly
> lady was in a parked car and the coffee gave her third degree burns around
> her vaginal area that were so severe she needed skin grafts. The award was
> reduced considerably by the judge but McDonald's finally got the message that
> their coffee was dangerously hot. Coffee that hot doesn't make it better
> either, as we know. Just like most news stories, you seldom hear enough facts
> to make a clear judgement on the subject. I agree with the jury on this one.
>
> http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
First, many of us like hot coffee because we are going somewhere and we
want it hot when we arrive. That's why we ask for it "to go". Second,
coffee, even at 150F, is dangerous to a moron. Generally, you should
hold a coffee cup in your hand between your thumb and fingers, not
between your legs near your crotch. Pour 150F coffee on someones groin
and it will hurt. Why do millions of people have to have colder coffee
because of a few idiots ?
Franco
--
He who waits to do a great deal of good at once,
will never do anything. Fortune Cookie
Unknown
lid was off the cup. I think she was a complete idiot.
I "hate" to interject, but this is a topic I know from experience. I
don't wish burns on anyone, because I've been burned by grease and know
how much it hurts. But, you also have to use common sense when handling
hot liquids. I didn't and paid the price. She didn't and McDonald's
paid the price. I was 17 at the time, she was in her 80's - who do you
think should have known better at the time?
I rest my case.
```````````````````````````````````````
Eric Langjahr
every idiot is protected. What people unfortunately forget is that if
society seeks to protect every idiot there will be no end of idiots or
idiocy.
The trial lawyers motives in all this are quite understandable.
And of course, our law makers just love 'protecting the children'. In
the name of this protection they visit us with all sorts of
interesting "concepts". Not sure just where in the constitution it
indicates the it is one of the functions of the Federal Government to
protect the children, but I am sure it is in there somewhere<g>!
And yes, all this protection ultimately costs us all an immense amount
of money, time, and freedom.
I think it was Ben Franklin who said that those who would trade
freedom for safety would soon have neither.
Well, we will see if he was right, won't we?
Stan Horwitz
: First, many of us like hot coffee because we are going somewhere and we
: want it hot when we arrive. That's why we ask for it "to go". Second,
: coffee, even at 150F, is dangerous to a moron. Generally, you should
: hold a coffee cup in your hand between your thumb and fingers, not
: between your legs near your crotch. Pour 150F coffee on someones groin
: and it will hurt. Why do millions of people have to have colder coffee
: because of a few idiots ?
Obviously, one should hold a coffee cup as you describe. The reason the
woman in the McDonalds case set the coffee cup down was because it was
too hot to hold. If McDonalds is going to sell coffee to go, they had at
least better sell it at a temperature which consumers can deal with and
in a container that doesn't transmit too much of the coffee's heat to the
coffee drinker. Had the coffee not been 30% hotter than industry standard,
perhaps the woman might not have had the need to set it down the way she did.
Joel P. Klein
Correct me if my memory is faulty, but hadn't she removed the lid and
was adding cream at the time?
Andy
Stan Horwitz wrote in message <6pffgn$j9c$2...@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu>...
>Franco (pasq...@nji.com) wrote:
>: >Obviously, one should hold a coffee cup as you describe. The reason the
>woman in the McDonalds case set the coffee cup down was because it was
>too hot to hold. If McDonalds is going to sell coffee to go, they had at
>least better sell it at a temperature which consumers can deal with and
>in a container that doesn't transmit too much of the coffee's heat to the
>coffee drinker. Had the coffee not been 30% hotter than industry standard,
>perhaps the woman might not have had the need to set it down the way she
did.
Obviously you must be one of those individuals who feel it necessary to
protect this idiot from herself!
Evergene
>That elderly lady was NOT in a parked car; the car was moving
>and the lid was off the cup. I think she was a complete idiot.
The facts of the case can be found at
http://seamless.com/consumer/mcdonald.html
1. The car was stationary when the accident happened.
2. The 79-year-old woman (Stella Liebeck) suffered full-thickness (3rd
degree) burns over 6% of her body and was hospitalized for eight days,
during which time she underwent skin grafting and debridement
treatments.
3. McDonalds own quality assurance manager testified that the company
actively enforces a requirement that coffee be held in the pot at 185
degrees, plus or minus five degrees. He also testified that a burn
hazard exists with any food substance served at 140 degrees or above,
and that McDonalds coffee, at the temperature at which it was poured
into styrofoam cups, was not fit for consumption because it would burn
the mouth and throat. McDonalds defended selling 180-degree coffee by
asserting that customers buy coffee on their way to work or home,
intending to consume it there. The company's own research, however,
showed that customers intend to consume the coffee immediately, while
driving.
4. Plaintiff's expert, a scholar in thermodynamics as applied to human
skin burns, testified that liquids, at 180 degrees, will cause a
full-thickness burn to human skin in two to seven seconds.
5. During the 10 years preceding the accident, more than 700 claims
were made against McDonalds by people burned by its coffee. Some of
these claims involved 3rd-degree burns substantially similar to
Liebeck's.
6. Liebeck had sought to settle her claim for $20,000; McDonalds
refused.
Christopher B. Browne
> Obviously you must be one of those individuals who feel it necessary to
>protect this idiot from herself!
Indeed.
Presumably we ought also to place long, sharp spears sticking out of
the steering wheels of cars, placed nicely to go through the heads of
drivers that do not drive suitably defensively.
If you knew that accidentally bumping into the car in front of you would
likely kill both you and the driver in front of you, this would likely
result in more careful driving, and fewer such accidents.
--
"Administering a Linux server is no more difficult than properly
running Windows NT." -- Infoworld, November 24, 1997
cbbr...@hex.net - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
Brew...@my-dejanews.com
Franco <pasq...@nji.com> wrote:
> Brew...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > I'd like to shed some light on this oft mentioned example regarding coffee.
> First, many of us like hot coffee because we are going somewhere and we
> want it hot when we arrive. That's why we ask for it "to go". Second,
> coffee, even at 150F, is dangerous to a moron. Generally, you should
> hold a coffee cup in your hand between your thumb and fingers, not
> between your legs near your crotch. Pour 150F coffee on someones groin
> and it will hurt. Why do millions of people have to have colder coffee
> because of a few idiots ?
>
> Franco
Twist around what I said and ignore the facts if they don't suit you. Fine
with me.
Franco
I read in another fortune cookie; Don't store hot materials near your
crotch, whether at 140 or 212 deg. She didn't follow this rule.
eric pearson
The incident was .0001 McDonalds and .9999 customer stupidity.
The customer should have received no more than .0001 of the *actual*
(not the inflated by the jury) damages from McDs. And this statement
is from someone who *hates* McDs.
regards,
eric pearson
er...@nospammindspring.com
On Sun, 26 Jul 1998 21:45:09 GMT, ever...@sirius.com (Evergene)
Franco
Your argument is flawed. The coffee is not hot to prevent people from
holding it near their groin. It is hot because many people like it
that. Take a science course and learn some logic. You may hurt yourself
as this silly woman did.
DeliaW1
>holding it near their groin. It is hot because many people like it
>that. Take a science course and learn some logic. You may hurt yourself
>as this silly woman did.
Well I found it extremly funny! And god knows it's true!
Brew...@my-dejanews.com
ever...@sirius.com (Evergene) wrote:
> (sf) wrote:
>
> >That elderly lady was NOT in a parked car; the car was moving
> >and the lid was off the cup. I think she was a complete idiot.
>
> The facts of the case can be found at
>
> http://seamless.com/consumer/mcdonald.html
>
> 1. The car was stationary when the accident happened.
Thank you. I rest my case. I imagine some will still ignore the facts to
suit themselves, so who is the idiot then?
Brew...@my-dejanews.com
Franco <pasq...@nji.com> wrote:
> Evergene wrote:
> >
> > (sf) wrote:
> >
> > >That elderly lady was NOT in a parked car; the car was moving
> > >and the lid was off the cup. I think she was a complete idiot.
> >
> > The facts of the case can be found at
> >
> > http://seamless.com/consumer/mcdonald.html
> I read in another fortune cookie; Don't store hot materials near your
> crotch, whether at 140 or 212 deg. She didn't follow this rule.
>
> Franco
Don't confuse me with the facts, in other words.
Young
> > 1. The car was stationary when the accident happened.
>
> Thank you. I rest my case. I imagine some will still ignore the facts to
> suit themselves, so who is the idiot then?
The one that put a cup of hot coffee in close proximity to her crotch.
nancy
Michael J. Edelman
--
Michael Edelman http://www.mich.com/~mje
Telescope guide: http://www.mich.com/~mje/scope.html
Folding Kayaks: http://www.mich.com/~mje/kayak.html
Airguns: http://www.mich.com/~mje/airguns.html
Andy
Brew...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<6phpbr$21g$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>suit themselves, so who is the idiot then?
>
{After receiving the order, the grandson pulled his car forward and stopped
momentarily so that Liebeck could {add cream and sugar to her coffee.
(Critics of civil justice, who have pounced on this case, often charge that
{Liebeck was driving the car or that the vehicle was in motion when she
spilled the coffee; neither is true.) {Liebeck placed the cup between her
knees and attempted to remove the plastic lid from the cup. As she {removed
the lid, the entire contents of the cup spilled into her lap.
OK, I read the "facts" as you suggest. Now maybe YOU should read them and
not set them down to suit YOUR needs. I fine it VERY difficult to say this
woman had any semblance of intelligence, along with her grandson. She put
the cup "between her knees and attempted to remove the plastic lid." Had
this woman ever had coffee before? Maybe she didn't realize that coffee is a
hot liquid. Does it take a rocket scientist to figure out the cup, being
only Styrofoam, just may collapse or spill when the rigidity of the lid is
removed? If the car was stopped. why didn't she use the dash, the council,
or a cup holder? The only thing that court decision made clear was that once
again someone, this time it was McDonalds, was forced to pay for an
individuals stupidity.
coffee_...@my-dejanews.com
Sludgy coffee will be the least of your worries. Pushing smaller
particles through a liquid is *much* harder than pushing bigger ones.
Simple physics, but the danger is not immediately apparent to most,
unfortunately. With a french press, increase pressure means
*substantially* increased risk. Getting splashed with near-boiling
brew is not an experience you'll soon forget.
I had to learn the hard way--third degree burns and a couple of skin
graft surgeries. (My breast and thigh are still permanently
disfigured.) I didn't contemplate the danger and blithely used an
espresso grind (i.e., near-powder) in my press. (I was at a friend's
and that's the only coffee he had.) Who knew? Only after the accident
did it occur to me to analyze fluid mechanics.
Bodum is so concerned about the problem that its newer french presses
come with the "coarse [sic] ground only" warning etched on the
carafe's glass, bound to be seen by anyone using the product. It
also prints the warning on a leaflet and packs it inside each french
press before boxing.
My accident was unneccessary. My french press predates the
etched-on-glass warning. I didn't get the warning leaflet because my
french press came from Starbucks. (Most sold in the U.S. do.) Up
until just recently,Starbucks stores displayed and sold the product
unboxed, with the warnings removed. Sleek merchandising, and that
trumped customer safety! Mere negligence? Hardly. Such matters are
decided at the corporate level. Yikes! (See Howard Schultz's book.
He should know--he's chairman and ceo.)
Best of luck! Hope this helps. The french press does make excellent coffee.
In article <35BA2AB6...@hem1.passagen.se>,
Kaari Jae <ka...@hem1.passagen.se> wrote:
> Need help please,
> I don't drink coffee but I do own a french press. I have friends coming
> over soon who like coffee. Now could you tell me what type of coffee is
> best used with the french press? Finely ground? Coarsly ground or what??
> T I A
> Kaari
>
> --
> ======================================================================
> Please remove the 8899 from my name before you reply. Thank you :)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> What if you slept? And what if, in your sleep, you dreamed?
> And what if, in your dream you went to heaven and there
> plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if,
> when you awoke, you had the flower in your hand?
> Ah, what then?
> (Coleridge)
> =================================================
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - -
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
KD S
one). The program showed a discreet photograph of the burns and they
looked like a classic textbook illustration for
a third degree burn. (If I recall correctly, there
was even some charring of the skin.
The woman in question also had to go through debrading and skingrafting.
Thanks, Evergene, for posting the website which contains the facts.
~taco
Robbyn
*I don't drink coffee but I do own a french press. I have friends coming
*over soon who like coffee. Now could you tell me what type of coffee is
*best used with the french press? Finely ground? Coarsly ground or what??
*T I A
*Kaari
*
Kaari -
This is how I do it - hope it helps <smile>.
You can use any type of whole bean coffee that you like. Grind it coarsely -
you don't want it too fine. Allow about 1 1/2 times the amount of coffee per
cup that you would use for your drip coffee maker.
Boil your water. While you're doing that, grind your beans and put them into
the carafe.
Once the water is boiling, remove from the heat and allow the boil to stop.
Carefully pour the water into the carafe to cover the beans. Place the lid
on the carafe (but don't depress the plunger yet) and let it steep for about
10 minutes.
Depress the plunger gently and slowly until you can't press it down any
further.
Your coffee is ready to serve!
While I have a drip coffee maker that I use most of the time, I like my
French press because the coffee has a somewhat "earthier" flavor when made
this way - also, it's MUCH hotter - which I like. It's also useful in my
power deficient apartment as I can't use the coffee maker when the air
conditioner is running <sigh>.
Good luck!
Robbyn
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back into the same box.
E-mail intentionally messed with.
Remove "bit-bucket" to reply
Franco
Most of the individuals discussing this issue are alt.coffee regulars
including myself and we are not trolls. If you don't want to talk about
it, you don't have to.
Franco
>
> In article <35BBEE...@nji.com>,
> Franco <pasq...@nji.com> wrote:
> > Evergene wrote:
> > >
> > > (sf) wrote:
> > >
> > > >That elderly lady was NOT in a parked car; the car was moving
> > > >and the lid was off the cup. I think she was a complete idiot.
> > >
> > > The facts of the case can be found at
> > >
> > > http://seamless.com/consumer/mcdonald.html
>
> > I read in another fortune cookie; Don't store hot materials near your
> > crotch, whether at 140 or 212 deg. She didn't follow this rule.
> >
> > Franco
>
> Don't confuse me with the facts, in other words.
>
What facts ? The "facts" on that consumer home page is nothing but a
highly emotional biased editorial by the Consumer Attorneys of
California. I'am sure they're real objective.
Ed Hymes
Franco wrote in message <35BA03...@nji.com>...
>Meanspirited wrote:
>
>snip
>> For anyone who cannot safely use a french press, I must ask for your own
sake
>> that you do not try using anything that requires electricity.
>> You should also avoid any water faucets labeled "hot", and do not attempt
to
>> use a stove.
>>
>snip
>
>Add sailboats to the list of equipment to be avoided:
>
And don't serve hot coffee on a sailboat
LauraM
as.. everyone makes foolish mistakes once or twice in their lives.. ie I'm
sure she won't be holding anything even remotely warm, or even overly cold,
i'm sure, between her knees again. :) I'm not a coffee connisour (spelling
is wrong.. i kno.. but i'm not thinking well enough to get the correct
spelling.. and I tend to add an ice cube or two to cool it down when I get
coffee in a restaurant.. so I do not like things overly hot. As a
customer.. Yeah, I know to be careful.. but as an ex employee of
McDonalds.. boy oh boy is that coffee hot.. When we used to get busy, and
everyone's basically running this way and that, and the head guy is there
ragging on you because your order took 45 seconds instead of 30.. and all
that productivity stuff which makes McDonald's employees lives miserable..
and you're running back and forth to the coffee pot, or someone else is...
etc., it often gets splashed on hands. This was about 4 or 5 years ago,
but I still have scars on my hands, because someone else thought that they
could pour over me, and I wasn't paying attention, because I was focusing on
what I was doing, not what someone else was doing.. Now, seeing as
McDonald's coffee has to be thrown out after 20 minutes.. (yeah rite.. )
what purpose does heating it up to 185 degrees have? Does anyone know how
much longer something stays hotter when it's cooling from 185 compared to
cooling from 140 (now I am really curious about this..) and is it really
that much of a difference? All I have to say is that coffee at 185 should
have a warning label on it.. how hard would it be to print on the cups..
Caution: The contents in this cup are heated to 185 degrees. If spilled,
can cause serious burns. You may say.. well.. everyone knows coffee is
hot.. but does everyone realize coffee is that hot? :)
Thanx for listening to my rant..
Laura
Franco wrote in message <35BD26...@nji.com>...
>Michael J. Edelman wrote:
>>
>> It's a troll, people, and it's been talkd to death. Drop it.
>>
>> --
>> Michael Edelman http://www.mich.com/~mje
>> Telescope guide: http://www.mich.com/~mje/scope.html
>> Folding Kayaks: http://www.mich.com/~mje/kayak.html
>> Airguns: http://www.mich.com/~mje/airguns.html
>
>Most of the individuals discussing this issue are alt.coffee regulars
>including myself and we are not trolls. If you don't want to talk about
>it, you don't have to.
>
>Franco
Bob Y.
>Michael J. Edelman wrote:
>>
>> It's a troll, people, and it's been talkd to death. Drop it.
>>
>Most of the individuals discussing this issue are alt.coffee regulars
>including myself and we are not trolls. If you don't want to talk about
>it, you don't have to.
>
>Franco
>--
You may not be a troll, but for once I agree with Michael. It has been discussed
to death in r.f.c. so why not confine it to alt.coffee?
d(:)
Bob Y.
TV: a weapon of mass distraction.
— Heard on CNN
Dennis R. Vogel
>Brew...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>Why do millions of people have to have colder coffee
>because of a few idiots ?
Who's forcing you and millions of others to have colder coffee?
Take your business elsewhere or make it yourself.
Dennis Vogel
Unknown
as food related as anything else discussed here, so set your filter and
ignore the thread if it bothers you so much. If you don't have a filter
on your newsreader, then dl one that does. They are free.
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Dennis R. Vogel
Eric Langjahr <lang...@pclv.com> wrote:
>
>I think it was Ben Franklin who said that those who would trade
>freedom for safety would soon have neither.
It was Ben but it was 'security' not 'safety' in the original
quote but they mean essentially the same thing here.
Dennis Vogel
Dennis R. Vogel
>
>Your argument is flawed. The coffee is not hot to prevent people from
>holding it near their groin. It is hot because many people like it
>that. Take a science course and learn some logic. You may hurt yourself
>as this silly woman did.
And many hundreds of people don't like it that hot juding by the reports
of complaints that McDs receives. How does that factor into your logic?
Dennis Vogel
movies
restaurants for some stupid thing he food was cold or her pop was to warm.
or ketcup hade her break out or somthing. lets put this lady and mcdonalds
to rest.
KD S <tac...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<12584-35...@newsd-154.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Franco
>
> On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 01:15:36 GMT, Franco <pasq...@nji.com> wrote:
>
> >Michael J. Edelman wrote:
> >>
> >> It's a troll, people, and it's been talkd to death. Drop it.
> >>
>
> >Most of the individuals discussing this issue are alt.coffee regulars
> >including myself and we are not trolls. If you don't want to talk about
> >it, you don't have to.
> >
> >Franco
> >--
>
> You may not be a troll, but for once I agree with Michael. It has been discussed
> to death in r.f.c. so why not confine it to alt.coffee?
>
> d(:)
> Bob Y.
>
> TV: a weapon of mass distraction.
> — Heard on CNN
Actually, I don't know how it spilled over to rfc. It doesn't matter
because we are not making any progress at this point, just invective
stabs at each other. So, I'm stopping.
Big Willie
--
I was sad that I had no shoes 'til I met a man that had no feet...
So I took his--I mean, he's not going to need them, right?
Franco wrote in message <35BE99...@nji.com>...
Becca
with those hot apple pies.
Becca <-----thinks McD's hot apple pies
led to the invention of napalm...
Jennifer
movies wrote:
>
> that lady your takling about is sue happy/ she in 1 year sued 213
> restaurants for some stupid thing he food was cold or her pop was to warm.
> or ketcup hade her break out or somthing. lets put this lady and mcdonalds
> to rest.
--
Jennifer
Every life should have nine cats.
j v d a l e at i b m dot n e t
richa...@nospam-3127.firstenergycorp.com
On 28 Jul 1998 17:05:27 GMT, dvo...@hobcs1.mt.lucent.com (Dennis R. Vogel) wrote:
> In article <35BC17...@nji.com>, Franco <pasq...@nji.com> wrote:
> >
> >Your argument is flawed. The coffee is not hot to prevent people from
> >holding it near their groin. It is hot because many people like it
> >that. Take a science course and learn some logic. You may hurt yourself
> >as this silly woman did.
>
> And many hundreds of people don't like it that hot juding by the reports
> of complaints that McDs receives. How does that factor into your logic?
>
> Dennis Vogel
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Dennis R. Vogel
<richa...@NoSPAM-3127.firstenergycorp.com> wrote:
>
>On 28 Jul 1998 17:05:27 GMT, dvo...@hobcs1.mt.lucent.com (Dennis R. Vogel) wrote:
>> In article <35BC17...@nji.com>, Franco <pasq...@nji.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Your argument is flawed. The coffee is not hot to prevent people from
>> >holding it near their groin. It is hot because many people like it
>> >that. Take a science course and learn some logic. You may hurt yourself
>> >as this silly woman did.
>>
>> And many hundreds of people don't like it that hot juding by the reports
>> of complaints that McDs receives. How does that factor into your logic?
>
t
>o individuals such as this. Think about it! When you buy anything from McDonalds, a portion of the payment hawever small it may be is paying for this frivolous lawsuit.
Hey, is the Return key on your machine broke?
So tell us what she should have done when she was handed a cup so hot that she couldn't hold
it? What would you have done?
Dennis Vogel
Young
> So tell us what she should have done when she was handed a cup so hot that she couldn't hold
> it? What would you have done?
Taken off the lid and put it between my legs, what else?
nancy
Sheryl Rosen
>Correct me if my memory is faulty, but
>hadn't she removed the lid and was
>adding cream at the time?
but does it bug anyone else that when you order coffee from McD's, BK,
and most other places with DRIVE THRU windows (Dunkin Donuts being a
noteworthy exception), that you should HAVE to remove the lid to put
cream and/or sugar in the darn stuff?????
Isn't it MUCH easier for the moron ---oops, I mean person---at the
window to do it for you, on that nice big, shiny, clean and flat
counter? And shouldn't it just make common sense to do that for people
at the drive thru? If a person goes inside, then they can fix up their
own java. There are tables to rest the cup on while you fiddle with the
little packets. But if you're obviously in a CAR....duh!!!!!! Isn't it
just plain sensible to do it for them? Not to mention, an additional
measure of something many companies have no concept of
anymore....CUSTOMER SERVICE.
Maybe if the person manning the drive thru window that day had fixed up
the dumb lady's coffee, she wouldn't have needed to put it between her
legs to put the cream in it. Big maybe.
BTW....wanna know how to tick off the person at McD's drive thru??? When
you order your coffee...ask for milk, rather than cream. At least near
me, the woman looks at me like I have 6 eyes... asks me to repeat
myself, which I do. then she says "In da bag". To which I reply, with a
polite smile on my face "No...that's cream. I prefer milk." Another
"you have 6 eyes" expression...then "ya wanME to put in in for you?"
Sheryl, smiling, says "yes, please. Thank you. And while you have it
open, could you please put a packet of equal in there for me???" "It's
in da bag".
"I know. But since you have the lid off already, and a stirrer in your
hand, could you please just pour a packet of equal in there for me?
SMILE" The clerk then SIGHS, like I just asked her to donate a kidney
or something equally monumental, and mutters under her breath "We not
supposed to DO that". I am typically seething inside, but I only smile
and thank her profusely, because I want her to realize that giving me my
coffee the way I like it is her JOB. But I don't think she gets it.
By the way....there's no one behind me, usually, as I only go to McD's
when I get a certain kind of grease craving, which only happens
periodically. (no pun intended). And usually when I'm running late and
it's nearly 9am...so the breakfast rush hour is practically over. And
it's the same clerk every month.
Anyone have any insight as to why McD's seems to have a policy against
putting sugar and milk/cream into your coffee for you at the drive thru?
Sheryl
Pssst...wanna see pictures.....?
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Parc/5284/
TJ
>
> Anyone have any insight as to why McD's seems to have a policy against
> putting sugar and milk/cream into your coffee for you at the drive thru?
> Sheryl
>
Speed. And to avoid those 'that's too MUCH' whiners.
My favourite McD's story happened to a friend of mine. Someone was
stealing food....big jars of pickles, etc. They gave everyone lie
detector tests. My friend, all of 18, was a closeted homosexual and the
first question after name and age was 'do you have a girlfriend?'
Lie-dectector went wild and never settled down. He was the only one who
didn't pass with flying colours....and got fired.
tj
Oddly, he inherited a meat packing plant from a sugar-daddy who died and
got that cadillac he always talked about.
TJ
>
> The DMV manual for NYS, and I beieve for most states clearly states:
> "when operating a motor vehicle keep BOTH hands on the steering wheel".
> Actually, in NYS it's the law.
Is this why everyone in NYC has an automatic?
tj
PENMART10
mand...@webtv.net (Sheryl Rosen) writes:
>Anyone have any insight as to why McD's seems to have a policy against
>putting sugar and milk/cream into your coffee for you at the drive thru?
>Sheryl
>
The DMV manual for NYS, and I beieve for most states clearly states:
"when operating a motor vehicle keep BOTH hands on the steering wheel".
Actually, in NYS it's the law.
Sheldon
````````````
On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line:
"I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."
Elizabeth & Keith Falkner
> My favourite McD's story happened to a friend of mine. Someone was
> stealing food....big jars of pickles, etc. They gave everyone lie
> detector tests. My friend, all of 18, was a closeted homosexual and the
> first question after name and age was 'do you have a girlfriend?'
> Lie-dectector went wild and never settled down. He was the only one who
> didn't pass with flying colours....and got fired.
> tj
> Oddly, he inherited a meat packing plant from a sugar-daddy who died and
> got that cadillac he always talked about.
Good for him! I LOVE stories with a happy ending.
Elizabeth
Colin Bigam
Vogel) wrote:
>So tell us what she should have done when she was handed a cup so hot that she couldn't hold
>it? What would you have done?
>
>Dennis Vogel
Well she _could_ hold it, and carry it out to the car too.
LauraM
than 60 seconds, and they don't change the rules even if there is no
line-up. Many pplz who work at these places do not have a customer service
attitude. They act like they are doing you the biggest favour in the
world.. and not like they're a replacable minimum wage employee.. <sigh> I
used to work at a McD's.. and I had no problem with doing that for
customers.. (mind u.. theones whoacted all .. b**chy.. i didn't like doing..
but for most.. no problem..).. i think that when I was hired.. in1992..
the group of us hired then was one of the last who had a customer service
type attitude.. even those who started 6 mos. after.. sheesh.. they
acted like they weren't being paid to serve customers.. forget about "the
customer is always right.."
Laura
++++++
TDooley69
>putting sugar and milk/cream into your coffee for you at the drive thru?
1 - it would slow down the drive thru tremendously then people would complain
that the drive thru is much too slow (as if that isn't already a problem.)
2 - How is the person at the drive thru supposed to get your coffee exactly
right?? Then the customer gets ill because there is too much sugar and he/she
wants another cup. Its much easier to get mad at someone else other than
yourself.
3 - You get what you pay for.
Richard Sherratt
>The DMV manual for NYS, and I beieve for most states clearly states:
>"when operating a motor vehicle keep BOTH hands on the steering wheel".
>Actually, in NYS it's the law.
So how do you change gear?
Regards,
Richard.
PENMART10
(Richard Sherratt) writes:
In NY.... quickly, and with conviction, the same way they do at the Indy 500.
Scott
Pulliam-Schiele
>In article <35c028b5...@news.ozemail.com.au>, amb...@ozemail.com.au
>(Richard Sherratt) writes:
>>So how do you change gear?
>In NY.... quickly, and with conviction, the same way they do at the Indy 500.
Hey, Sheldon - ya know why the Indy 500 speedway is oval??
b/c guys won't stop to ask directions.
Bwahahahaha!
Squeaks...who lived in Indy for 10 loooooong years
To reply via email, please remove the word "botcatcher" from address
Proud Alumna of the Dept. of Defense Dependent Schools
and an *Overseas Brat*
Hand Salute!
> || Straighten
> ||
> || Up and
< ||
> || Fly Right!
Faust
suing Arby's for not telling them that the french fries were fresh from the
deep fryer. One fell on the leg of their 18 month old daughter & caused a
burn. I missed the beginning of the article, so I'm not sure if the lawsuit
was filed here in Florida, or elsewhere...
When the idiots have all of the money, what will be left?
Steve
Dennis R. Vogel wrote in message <6pkuqu$f...@nntpa.cb.lucent.com>...
ki...@ix.netcom.com
>
> It's not coffee this time... I saw on the news last night that a couple is
> suing Arby's for not telling them that the french fries were fresh from the
> deep fryer. One fell on the leg of their 18 month old daughter & caused a
> burn. I missed the beginning of the article, so I'm not sure if the lawsuit
> was filed here in Florida, or elsewhere...
>
> When the idiots have all of the money, what will be left?
>
> Steve
Ed Christie
>> >
>> >Who's forcing you and millions of others to have colder coffee?
>> >Take your business elsewhere or make it yourself.
>> >
>> >Dennis Vogel
I came to this thread late but:
Personally, I like my food hot. One can always wait for it to cool, and
eat or drink it at a temperature that is most comfortable for them. if
the food is served too cool, no mater how long you wait it will never
warm up.
What happened to personal responsibility, today it seems that it's
always someone else's fault,. and that fault lies with the folks that
appear to have the deepest pockets.
Ed Christie
When your over the hill things speed up
McLemore
>The McDonald's case occurred here in Albuquerque, at an altitude of 5000 ft. At
>this altitude water boils at just below 204F...Definitely 3rd degree burns.
>You just can't do that with 204F water.
Yes, you can. Go back and ask your doctor friends to show you
case photos of third degree burns on children and the elderly
from water as "cool" as 170 degrees Fahrenheit.
I worked in the emergency rooms of several hospitals during my
time in the Navy. Too many of the dependent cases we treated
were of children burned by bath water and elder folk scalded
while doing the dishes. Skin of children is especially
vulnerable to hot-but-not-boiling water. Skin of many elderly
folks is thin, fragile, easily damaged.
It is entirely possible, even probable, that those burns were
made by the coffee. That the woman showed extremely poor
judgement by holding the cup between her knees is beside the
point, but the burns easily could have been made by the coffee.
Surely you don't really believe this woman sat in the parking
lot, poured super hot oil on her skin, then sat in it until
medical help arrived? Why didn't the emergency medical crew
report finding hot oil in the car? How did she keep this oil hot
while riding to McD's? Was there an electric skillet hooked up
to the cig lighter?
The skin in the genital area and inner thighs is very tender, for
both men and women. Would you have thought the burns
self-inflicted had it been a man who filed the complaint? Could
you truly imagine a man doing that, knowing from your own
experience how tender those areas are? No? Then what makes you
think a thin-skinned elderly woman would put up with the
excruciating pain, just to sue McD's? There has to be an easier
way for her to have gotten money from them.
Test this yourself, if you doubt it could happen. Heat water to
190 degrees F, immediately pour it onto the skin inside your
thighs and on your scrotum. Report back to us with your
findings. Photos would be nice, but aren't necessary.
OB Food: use honey to dip chicken in before breading and frying.
Thin with an equal amount of water, dip chicken pieces, shake
them in seasoned flour, then fry until golden brown. Got this
recipe from a roadside fried-chicken joint in 1965, just outside
of Mobile, Alabama. They served it with wedges of lemon and
additional honey in little plastic tubs. Chicken was great
stuff; fried peach pies even better.
Martha, a hard-boiled former CorpsWAVE with a low tolerance for
hot air (including my own), let alone hot water.
Jim Yanik
Actually,the judge should have fined this woman for filing a frivolous
lawsuit.The appeals courts should have fined the original judge for not doing
so,and wasting both courts time and taxpayer monies.
Jim Yanik,NRA member.
LauraM
fries.. sheesh.. it's bound to happen. Don't hold the kid and the fries at
the same time, or move the fries away from the kid.. or.. um.. don't let
an 18 mos. old kid eat fries.. whatever. I mean, that one is common sense,
and I'm sure all of us with young kids actually appreciate it when the fries
are actually kid temperature (ie been sitting there too long so that us
adults don't like them...) but think about it. Now I'm finally one to agree
that this is just plain crazy. But, there are a lot of opportunists out
there, who see something like this happen, and automatically think
"hehehehe... <evil grin> I can now get these people/company/whatever for a
lot of money.." instead of "Oh, I should be more careful next time, and not
let little suzy or little billy near the french fries until I've made sure
they're cool enough!"
Laura
ki...@ix.netcom.com wrote in message <35C33A...@ix.netcom.com>...
Tresa
This woman sufferred severe burns to her entire groin area including her
vagina. I believe the coffee was so hot that it caused 2nd degree burns
and mutilated her. Many of the plaintiff's details of this case are not
well known because of the personal nature of her injury.
Kind Regards,
--
Tresa ~~
(\ __ /)
( \(__)/ ) Take this little angel, and keep her
( /<>\ ) close to you --
(\/\/) She is your Guardian Angel
/ \ sent to watch over you!
(____)
Mike Hartigan
> The rest of the story . . .
> This woman sufferred severe burns to her entire groin area including her
> vagina. I believe the coffee was so hot that it caused 2nd degree burns
> and mutilated her. Many of the plaintiff's details of this case are not
> well known because of the personal nature of her injury.
Granted, we don't know the intimate details of the case, but if I held a
nail gun between my knees, and it accidentally shot a nail through my
groin, (due to the fact that it can't be held safely in that way), then
my injury, no matter how personal in nature, would still be MY fault!
Not Craftsman's. Surely, common sense still has a place in the hearts
and minds of sentient beings.
--
+---------------------------------------///--------------------+
| | /// |
| If I didn't know better, I'd | Mike Hartigan |
| say it was a sectional sofa. \\\| hart...@enteract.dot.com |
| \\\/// |
+---------------------------------\\\/-------------------------+
ki...@ix.netcom.com
>
> The rest of the story . . .
>
> This woman sufferred severe burns to her entire groin area including her
> vagina. I believe the coffee was so hot that it caused 2nd degree burns
> and mutilated her. Many of the plaintiff's details of this case are not
> well known because of the personal nature of her injury.
>
> --
> Tresa ~~
> (\ __ /)
> ( \(__)/ ) Take this little angel, and keep her
> ( /<>\ ) close to you --
> (\/\/) She is your Guardian Angel
> / \ sent to watch over you!
> (____)
coffee ,they'rrre baaack!
Unknown
an acrobat too!
Who says OJ had the Dream Team? She did. Some jurors can be big
suckers for a sob story.
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
On Tue, 04 Aug 1998 18:40:05 -0400, ki...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>Tresa wrote:
>>
>> The rest of the story . . .
>>
>> This woman sufferred severe burns to her entire groin area including her
>> vagina.
^^^^^
Jim Yanik
>
>The rest of the story . . .
>
>This woman sufferred severe burns to her entire groin area including her
>and mutilated her. Many of the plaintiff's details of this case are not
>well known because of the personal nature of her injury.
>
>Kind Regards,
>--
>Tresa ~~
> (\ __ /)
> ( \(__)/ ) Take this little angel, and keep her
> ( /<>\ ) close to you --
> (\/\/) She is your Guardian Angel
> / \ sent to watch over you!
> (____)
It is still HER OWN DAMN FAULT. Or else she's incompetent,and should not be
allowed out in public without supervision.
Jim Yanik,NRA member.
Elizabeth & Keith Falkner
> It is still HER OWN DAMN FAULT. Or else she's incompetent,and should not be
> allowed out in public without supervision.
>
> Jim Yanik,NRA member.
WOW! I never thought I would agree with an NRA member on _anything_.
Of course, I can't see where being an NRA member (or not) had anything
to do with the post.
I read the information about that case (here and elsewhere) and tried to
ignore what seemed to be opinions and stick to the facts as reported.
The woman was an idiot and was amply rewarded for it...but what else is
new these days. Responsibility for actions has gone to you-know-where
in the proverbial handbasket.
Elizabeth
Elizabeth
TJ
> >This woman sufferred severe burns to her entire groin area including her
> >vagina. I believe the coffee was so hot that it caused 2nd degree burns
> >and mutilated her. Many of the plaintiff's details of this case are not
> >well known because of the personal nature of her injury.
> >
> Vagina? What, this woman was standing on her head at the time?
>
> Squeaks
IME, the word 'vagina' is often used for either the opening of the
vagina or the vulva. Try this with ice water....sit in a car seat, pour
water between your thighs, let gravity do it's work. One of the two
above mentioned items will get cold, provided you are female.
'Fourchette' is simply not in common vocabulary, nor in my Pocket
Oxford.
tj
who is happy fresh squeezed limeade isn't scalding hot
Pulliam-Schiele
PENMART10
>IME, the word 'vagina' is often used for either the opening of the
>vagina or the vulva. Try this with ice water....sit in a car seat, pour
>water between your thighs, let gravity do it's work. One of the two
>above mentioned items will get cold, provided you are female.
>'Fourchette' is simply not in common vocabulary, nor in my Pocket
>Oxford.
>tj
>who is happy fresh squeezed limeade isn't scalding hot
>
>
Do you mind if I change my seat, I'd really like to sit up front for this
class. ;)
PENMART10
(PENMART10) writes:
>In article <6qb2c0$j8l$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>, TJ <tsi...@gte.net> writes:
>
>>Pulliam-Schiele wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 04 Aug 1998 10:33:34 -0400, Tresa <tr...@minister.com> wrote:
>>
>>> >This woman sufferred severe burns to her entire groin area including her
>>> >vagina. I believe the coffee was so hot that it caused 2nd degree burns
>>> >and mutilated her. Many of the plaintiff's details of this case are not
>>> >well known because of the personal nature of her injury.
>>> >
>>> Vagina? What, this woman was standing on her head at the time?
>>>
>>> Squeaks
>>
>>IME, the word 'vagina' is often used for either the opening of the
>>vagina or the vulva. Try this with ice water....sit in a car seat, pour
>>water between your thighs, let gravity do it's work. One of the two
>>above mentioned items will get cold, provided you are female.
>>'Fourchette' is simply not in common vocabulary, nor in my Pocket
>>Oxford.
>>tj
>>who is happy fresh squeezed limeade isn't scalding hot
>>
>>
>Do you mind if I change my seat, I'd really like to sit up front for this
>class. ;)
>
>
>Sheldon
Hmmm, thanks teach, now I can see the chalkboard for copying the homework
assignment.
Webster's Unabridged
Fourchette n. [Fr., dim. of fourche, a fork]
1. the wishbone of a bird.
2. the frog of a hoof.
3. a small fold of skin connecting the inner
lips (labia minora) of the vulva at the lower end.
4. in surgery, and instrument used to raise and
support the tongue during durng the operation of
dividing the frenum
5. in glovemaking, the piece between the two adjacent fingers,
to which the front and back portion are sewed.
Do you give extra credit for demonstrations?
steve knight
wrote:
>Granted, we don't know the intimate details of the case, but if I held a
>nail gun between my knees, and it accidentally shot a nail through my
>groin, (due to the fact that it can't be held safely in that way), then
>my injury, no matter how personal in nature, would still be MY fault!
>Not Craftsman's. Surely, common sense still has a place in the hearts
>and minds of sentient beings.
Not when a lawyer can get some money out of it.
"I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather....
Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car...."
Stan Horwitz
: On 4 Aug 1998 16:40:43 GMT, Mike Hartigan <hart...@enteract.dot.com>
: wrote:
:
: >Granted, we don't know the intimate details of the case, but if I held a
: >nail gun between my knees, and it accidentally shot a nail through my
: >groin, (due to the fact that it can't be held safely in that way), then
: >my injury, no matter how personal in nature, would still be MY fault!
: >Not Craftsman's. Surely, common sense still has a place in the hearts
: >and minds of sentient beings.
:
: Not when a lawyer can get some money out of it.
But the cup of coffee was much too hot to hold. That's why the woman put
it down. Her choice of where to put the coffee cup down was bad, and as a
result, the money awarded her was cut considerably on appeal, but
McDonalds still is very much at fault for serving coffee which its own
chief quality control officer testified under oath at both trials that was
hotter than industry standard. Both the woman and McDonalds were at fault
in this case and that's the way the jury decided in the outcome of the
second trial. McDonalds has no business serving coffee at a drive through
that's too hot to hold in its own cups. This woman was also one of 600 who
had serious burns from McDonalds coffee so its not like McD's didn't know
there was a serious problem with its coffee temperature. Just as McDonalds
tried to avoid dealing with this woman face-to-face without legal counsel
(as she had orignally requested), McDonalds' management also tried to bury
their head in the sand and it got pouned with a heavy jury verdict as a
result.
Craig Weaver
>But the cup of coffee was much too hot to hold. That's why the woman put
>it down. Her choice of where to put the coffee cup down was bad, and as a
>result, the money awarded her was cut considerably on appeal, but
>McDonalds still is very much at fault for serving coffee which its own
>chief quality control officer testified under oath at both trials that was
>hotter than industry standard. Both the woman and McDonalds were at fault
>in this case and that's the way the jury decided in the outcome of the
>second trial. McDonalds has no business serving coffee at a drive through
>that's too hot to hold in its own cups. This woman was also one of 600 who
>had serious burns from McDonalds coffee so its not like McD's didn't know
>there was a serious problem with its coffee temperature. Just as McDonalds
>tried to avoid dealing with this woman face-to-face without legal counsel
>(as she had orignally requested), McDonalds' management also tried to bury
>their head in the sand and it got pouned with a heavy jury verdict as a
>result.
How sure are you of your information? On one of the John Stossel TV specials,
he interviewed the woman and her lawyer. According to the information he
presented, the coffee was at the industry standard temperature. I don't drink
McDonalds coffee anymore because I don't care for room-temperature beverages.
I like the coffee at Starbucks or at Einsteins (bagles) the best.
Tresa
> How sure are you of your information? On one of the John Stossel TV specials,
> he interviewed the woman and her lawyer. According to the information he
> presented, the coffee was at the industry standard temperature. I don't drink
> McDonalds coffee anymore because I don't care for room-temperature beverages.
> I like the coffee at Starbucks or at Einsteins (bagles) the best.
Dear Craig,
How sure are you of John Stossel's information? All of the information
was presented in a court of law. A jury decided. This particular
McDonalds did not serve room-temp coffee ... room-temp beverage would
not have caused the proven severity of her injuries.
cs
they could extract more coffee flavor out of less coffee grounds.
Contrary to the popular notion that the amount awarded by the jury
was frivolous, based upon a mere whim, the truth was that it was
bbased upon something like 5 minutes of worldwide McDonald's coffee
sales.
As for what she actually got for the several skin grafts, and misery
and pain I hear-tell it was in the range of $400k gross, and she had
to sign a confidentiality agreement, to keep it quiet, whereas
McDonald's and it's insurers have had no such restriction placed on
them, and the case has become the favorite case of the politicians'
contract on America, and anyone else who wants to take away one's
right to a trial by jury. I'm sure that you'll be hearing quite a bit
more about this case in the next two months as the US Chamber of
Commerce has reportedly pledged to go after the right to sue and be
fairly compensated, and have a trial by jury, making these campaign
issues for this November.
On 10 Aug 1998 23:31:05 GMT, st...@thunder.temple.edu (Stan Horwitz)
wrote:
>steve knight (dog...@teleport.com) wrote:
>: On 4 Aug 1998 16:40:43 GMT, Mike Hartigan <hart...@enteract.dot.com>
>: wrote:
>:
>: >Granted, we don't know the intimate details of the case, but if I held a
>: >nail gun between my knees, and it accidentally shot a nail through my
>: >groin, (due to the fact that it can't be held safely in that way), then
>: >my injury, no matter how personal in nature, would still be MY fault!
>: >Not Craftsman's. Surely, common sense still has a place in the hearts
>: >and minds of sentient beings.
>:
>: Not when a lawyer can get some money out of it.
>
Jim Yanik
No matter what,she still was STUPID enough to put *knowingly* hot coffee
between her legs. Inexcusable. Juries can be awfully sympathetic sometimes,too.
If I had been on that jury,they probably would have deadlocked,if not having
had an opposite verdict.
Jim Yanik,NRA member.
nolajava
cs wrote:
McDonald's had a financial basis for making the coffee so hot, viz.:
they could extract more coffee flavor out of less coffee grounds.
>The idea is to extract as much flavor as possible from the grounds. This is done with hot water in the 200 degree range. How much coffee they use is up to them. Their intention is to brew the coffee at the optimum temperature- which is not the optimum drinking temperature. As far as their "financial basis" for brewing coffee this way... I'd say that they clearly have a financial basis for everything they do, but what else is new.
Contrary to the popular notion that the amount awarded by the jury
was frivolous, based upon a mere whim, the truth was that it was
bbased upon something like 5 minutes of worldwide McDonald's coffee
sales.
>Sounds like a whim to me.
As for what she actually got for the several skin grafts, and misery
and pain I hear-tell it was in the range of $400k gross, and she had
to sign a confidentiality agreement, to keep it quiet, whereas
McDonald's and it's insurers have had no such restriction placed on
them, and the case has become the favorite case of the politicians'
contract on America, and anyone else who wants to take away one's
right to a trial by jury. I'm sure that you'll be hearing quite a bit
more about this case in the next two months as the US Chamber of
Commerce has reportedly pledged to go after the right to sue and be
fairly compensated, and have a trial by jury, making these campaign
issues for this November.
>LET THE BOSSES TAKE THE LOSSES!
Mike Hartigan
> [...] As far as their "financial basis" for
> brewing coffee this way... I'd say that they clearly have a financial basis for
> everything they do, but what else is new.
Duh!
What you say ("they clearly have a financial basis for everything they
do, but what else is new.") is true for virtually every profit-making
business venture in existence. Why else would they exist were it not
for financial reasons? I program computers as a career. But I only do
it for the money! Does that, somehow, make me less than an honorable
person? I dare say -- most people would not go to work every day if it
were not for the money. Similarly, I wouldn't invest in a company that
didn't have a financial basis for everything they do! Even
philanthropic ventures ultimately have a profit motive. When a company
'shares' it's profits with charitable organizations, it gets publicity,
along with a good boost in it's customer base from those who are
friendly to the cause. Inexpensive PR, indeed.
--
+-------------------------------------///--------------------+
| | /// |
| Why didn't you do that to | Mike Hartigan |
| the monkey BEFORE he sold \\\| hart...@enteract.dot.com |
| the car? \\\/// |
+-------------------------------\\\/-------------------------+
nolajava
Mike Hartigan wrote:
> In alt.food.coffee nolajava <nola...@iamerica.net> wrote:
> > [...] As far as their "financial basis" for
> > brewing coffee this way... I'd say that they clearly have a financial basis for
> everything they do, but what else is new.
>
> Duh!
>
> What you say ("they clearly have a financial basis for everything they do, but what
> else is new.") is true for virtually every profit-making business venture in
> existence.
My point exactly. Please refer your "Duh" to the post I originally replied to.
>
Mike Hartigan
> Mike Hartigan wrote:
Maybe I misunderstood your meaning, or maybe there was a touch of
sarcasm that I missed. It sounded like you were putting them down
because of their heartless profit motive ("...but what else is new"). My
point was that profit is the whole point of starting a business, and
shouldn't be considered an evil component of their motivation. If we
agree, then great! If we don't, then you're just exercising your right
to be wrong ;)
--
+-------------------------------------///--------------------------+
| | /// |
| Now that that's settled, can | Mike Hartigan |
| we proceed with lunch? \\\| hartigan at enteract.dot.com |
| \\\/// |
+-------------------------------\\\/-------------------------------+
Espen H. Koht
<hart...@enteract.dot.com> wrote:
> My
>point was that profit is the whole point of starting a business, and
>shouldn't be considered an evil component of their motivation.
It doesn't have to be. In fact, making a profit can be considered a
perversion in some respects. It all depends on where the profit lays. From
an accounting point of view, an overall profit could be irrelevant, as
long as there is no deficit.
Espen
John
wrote:
>steve knight (dog...@teleport.com) wrote:
>: On 4 Aug 1998 16:40:43 GMT, Mike Hartigan <hart...@enteract.dot.com>
>: wrote:
>:
>
>But the cup of coffee was much too hot to hold. That's why the woman put
>it down. Her choice of where to put the coffee cup down was bad, and as a
>result, the money awarded her was cut considerably on appeal, but
>McDonalds still is very much at fault for serving coffee which its own
>chief quality control officer testified under oath at both trials that was
>hotter than industry standard. Both the woman and McDonalds were at fault
>in this case and that's the way the jury decided in the outcome of the
>second trial. McDonalds has no business serving coffee at a drive through
>that's too hot to hold in its own cups. This woman was also one of 600 who
>had serious burns from McDonalds coffee so its not like McD's didn't know
>there was a serious problem with its coffee temperature. Just as McDonalds
>tried to avoid dealing with this woman face-to-face without legal counsel
>(as she had orignally requested), McDonalds' management also tried to bury
>their head in the sand and it got pouned with a heavy jury verdict as a
>result.
IMHO;
A. You buy hot coffee...you get......hot coffee. A room temperature
IQ doesn't alter that. This person was operating a car when the
incident occurred....what about the other brain functions required to
do this?
B. The cheap and nasty cups I can see. Sue the hell out of
them...they deserve and can afford it. And they would do the same to
you in a heartbeat.
My .02c (belated) worth.
John
Michael Edelman
Espen H. Koht wrote:
> > My
> >point was that profit is the whole point of starting a business, and
> >shouldn't be considered an evil component of their motivation.
>
> It doesn't have to be. In fact, making a profit can be considered a
> perversion in some respects. It all depends on where the profit lays. From
> an accounting point of view, an overall profit could be irrelevant, as
> long as there is no deficit.
Spoken like someone who has never started a business and never will. Probably
a civil servant ;-) Now quit cross-posting this crap to rec.food.cooking,
please?
--
Michael Edelman http://www.mich.com/~mje
Telescope guide: http://www.mich.com/~mje/scope.html
Folding Kayaks: http://www.mich.com/~mje/kayak.html
Airguns: http://www.mich.com/~mje/airguns.html