OT: Popsicles, Proselytizing and False Imprisonment
Food Snob®
doors down invited the neighborhood kids to a Jesus Party in her back
yard. She told them it would be lots of fun. Some of them went,
including my son and the boy from next door who is one year younger.
When my son said he was leaving the older of the women who were
talking about Jesus said something like, Don't go yet, we're going to
have popsicles. A few minutes later my son said he was leaving and
the woman said, Just stay for a few minutes more.
The neighbor boy was very uncomfortable, but he was scared to ask to
leave. His father showed up to tell him when dinner was going to be,
and he told his dad he wanted to go home, so they left and my son said
he was going with them and ,Goodbye, and that time they didn't
pressure him to stay. They gave them the popsicles and the kids
left. Now I don't think what they did quite qualifies as false
imprisonment*, but it was certainly inappropriate. I have been trying
to teach my son religious tolerance, and then these clowns do that
crap. I might add, my wife is mad as Hell.
While their actions don't quite qualify as false imprisonment, when
one of the kids said he wanted to leave, they should have thanked him
for coming, told him he was welcome back any time, and they could heve
told him something like Jesus loves him or something. However
inappropriate it is to proselytize to the neighbor kids, telling them
not to leave when they want to leave crosses a whole different line
with me.
Coincidentally, tonight is our block's walk and talk with a police
officer night. We are going to ask the police to talk to the woman
and tell her that as far as children are concerned, "No means no."
I'm not one of those folks who imagines a child molester lurking
around every playground, and I don't think these people were any real
threat, and it provided a teachable experience. Unless it is an
appropriate authority figure, no one can ever tell you to stay
somewhere you don't want to stay for any reason. Their status as
adults IN NO WAY implies that they have ANY authority over you.
* "Intentionally restraining another person without having the legal
right to do so. It's not necessary that physical force be used;
threats or a show of apparent authority are sufficient. False
imprisonment is a misdemeanor and a tort (a civil wrong)."
source-- http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/11865ee4-8734-4565-863b06b64ae7e727/alpha/f/
--Bryan
maxine
> A couple days ago the mother from the new family that moved in a few
> doors down invited the neighborhood kids to a Jesus Party in her back
> yard. She told them it would be lots of fun. Some of them went,
> including my son and the boy from next door who is one year younger.
> When my son said he was leaving the older of the women who were
> talking about Jesus said something like, Don't go yet, we're going to
> have popsicles. A few minutes later my son said he was leaving and
> the woman said, Just stay for a few minutes more.
You don't say how old your kid is, but from the way you tell the
story, I'm assuming late elementary or early middle school.
Time to teach them to politely, but firmly disengage from the
wandering prosyletizers of all ilks roaming the world. You've
obviously raised a polite kid with the desire to not hurt others.
Continue to give him the tools to deal with boors who will try and
take advantge of those traits. And the gumption to just say "NO" to
popsicles.....<G>
maxine in ri
Bobo Bonobo®
He is 7, going into second grade. You can see why my wife is so
angry.
>
> maxine in ri
--Bryan
sf
I'm just as sure as you are that they meant no harm. Call me jaded...
but when a backyard get together is called a Jesus party, that's a
huge red flag warning "evangelism". Wake up and smell the coffee! If
you've never had an evangelical at your door, you have no idea how
hard it is to get rid of them *politely*. You put your child in an
impossible situation and you should take ownership of it.
--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
sf
<clas...@brick.net> wrote:
>He is 7, going into second grade. You can see why my wife is so
>angry.
Neither one of you has admitted your part in this. *YOU* two put your
child in that situation. YOU knew what is implied by "Jesus party"
and had choices: decline the invitation or check in on your child, but
you didn't. They did what evangelicals do, you did not act as
responsible parents and now you are angry. Direct your anger
properly, live and learn. If that's the worst thing that ever happens
to your son, thank your lucky stars and pat yourselves on the back
when he turns 21.
cybercat
"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote
>>
> I'm just as sure as you are that they meant no harm. Call me jaded...
> but when a backyard get together is called a Jesus party, that's a
> huge red flag warning "evangelism".
hahaha! Boob cracks me up. No means no. lol
Bobo Bonobo®
> On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 09:22:11 -0700 (PDT), Food Snob®
>
> I'm just as sure as you are that they meant no harm. Call me jaded...
> but when a backyard get together is called a Jesus party, that's a
> huge red flag warning "evangelism". Wake up and smell the coffee! If
> you've never had an evangelical at your door, you have no idea how
> hard it is to get rid of them *politely*.
Can you imagine ME prioritizing politeness? I've followed JWs down
the street.
I was nice to the Mormons one time when we lived in FL, but that was
just to get a free copy of The Book of Mormon for my library.
> You put your child in an
> impossible situation and you should take ownership of it.
>
>
She didn't ask me. She asked him. I have nothing to "take ownership
of."
This was ill timed too. I've been trying to instill in him tolerance
for people's various beliefs. He recently had a falling out with a
neighborhood friend, partly over religion.
--Bryan
Bobo Bonobo®
> On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 09:35:19 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo®
>
> <class...@brick.net> wrote:
> >He is 7, going into second grade. You can see why my wife is so
> >angry.
>
> Neither one of you has admitted your part in this. *YOU* two put your
> child in that situation. YOU knew what is implied by "Jesus party"
> and had choices: decline the invitation or check in on your child, but
> you didn't. They did what evangelicals do, you did not act as
> responsible parents and now you are angry. Direct your anger
> properly, live and learn. If that's the worst thing that ever happens
> to your son, thank your lucky stars and pat yourselves on the back
> when he turns 21.
>
out about the Jesus party afterward, and I would not have minded him
going to such a thing if the folks were reasonable. If he wanted to
go to vacation Bible school at the church, I'd say, "Fine." These
freaks were trying to pressure a 6 YO and a 7 YO to stay when they had
expressed a desire to go home. I don't give a shit if they were
demonstrating Tupperware. Adults should not pressure children into
staying when the child expresses that he wants to leave. Don't you
agree with that?
--Bryan
sf
<clas...@brick.net> wrote:
>She didn't ask me. She asked him. I have nothing to "take ownership
>of."
You're shirking your parental duties. If this was ahead of time, it's
up to you to give him permission. If it was at the last moment, he
needs to know he should ask you first.
>This was ill timed too. I've been trying to instill in him tolerance
>for people's various beliefs.
Seven year old's don't notice something like that unless their parents
are making a big deal out of it. This says more about you than it
does about him.
>He recently had a falling out with a neighborhood friend, partly over religion.
Religious differences at seven??? No way. They barely notice skin
color at that age.
Dave Smith
> A couple days ago the mother from the new family that moved in a few
> doors down invited the neighborhood kids to a Jesus Party in her back
> yard. She told them it would be lots of fun. Some of them went,
> including my son and the boy from next door who is one year younger.
> When my son said he was leaving the older of the women who were
> talking about Jesus said something like, Don't go yet, we're going to
> have popsicles. A few minutes later my son said he was leaving and
> the woman said, Just stay for a few minutes more.
Well, if you let the kid go, knowing that it was a "Jesus party" you
should have sensed warning lights and buzzers.
>
> The neighbor boy was very uncomfortable, but he was scared to ask to
> leave. His father showed up to tell him when dinner was going to be,
> and he told his dad he wanted to go home, so they left and my son said
> he was going with them and ,
FWIW, Canadian sexual assault laws deems it to be misconduct if a person
used their position of authority to compel another into a sex act.
Granted, this is not a matter of sexual assault but it is a matter of an
adult compelling a child to stay.
> While their actions don't quite qualify as false imprisonment, when
> one of the kids said he wanted to leave, they should have thanked him
> for coming, told him he was welcome back any time, and they could heve
> told him something like Jesus loves him or something.
I saw the best ever comeback to that line in a movie last week. Someone
told the character "Jesus loves you" and she replied "You'r god damned
right he does."
> However
> inappropriate it is to proselytize to the neighbor kids, telling them
> not to leave when they want to leave crosses a whole different line
> with me.
Have a talk with your child and with the offending parent. Let them know
that they are welcome to their beliefs, but that it is inappropriate to
use their implied position of authority to make a child stay to be
preached at.
FWIW we havea very religious family living a few doors down from us. I
have nothing to do with them, but when some new neighbours moved in the
woman kept inviting the new neighbours kids to come to church with them
and commented to the new neighbour wife that she was not a Christian
because she was Catholic. New neighbour wife was terribly offended.
Curiously, the constant preaching paid off for the religious nuts and
new neighbours left the RC church and joined the holy rollers. Thanks to
the religious moral superiority the new neighbour ended up losing his
denturist licence and practise and learned that the regulating body does
have authority, even if not granted by god.
Kalmia
> threats or a show of apparent authority are sufficient. False
> imprisonment is a misdemeanor and a tort (a civil wrong)."
>
> --Bryan
"HOW" did she invite them? Another kid passed the word? I doubt if
she handed him a written invite or made a phone call. You mean you
had no inking that she'd invited him? How did you know it was Jesus
Party? When did you find out he went? I have a feeling you knew about
the invite before he headed that way. Now, you're sore cuz he had a
'trap" attempt made on him.
I wouldn't call it false imprisonment.
Have you considered paying this woman a visit and having a frank
discussion?
Dave Smith
> I'm just as sure as you are that they meant no harm.
Harm? They can't cause harm. They are doing god's work and that
justifies anything they say or do ... intheir minds.
> Call me jaded...
> but when a backyard get together is called a Jesus party, that's a
> huge red flag warning "evangelism". Wake up and smell the coffee! If
> you've never had an evangelical at your door, you have no idea how
> hard it is to get rid of them *politely*.
I tried being polite with a religious crackpot that I used to work with.
Being polite does not help. Debating or arguing with them does not
help. Being rude can send them over the deep end. I can thank that guy
for a transfer and huge raise. Any time the guy was around me he would
preach at me. I was a favourite target because I am an atheist, and he
seemed to think it was his job to convert me. I just started tell him
to fuck off and stop preaching to me. That always sent him into an
hysterical
rage.
One day I filed a religious harassment complaint. My poor boss was
stuck between a rock and a hard place. The whacko was Jamaican and had
filed numerous complaints of racial discrimination, all unfounded, and
here I was filing a complaint against him. It was the best thing I ever
did. I knew that my department was going to be privatized and my job
would be gone. I had been applying for every opening that came along,
but with no luck. they weren't even giving me interview. I ended up
with a interview a few days later and got the job. I got an immediate
$10,000 plus raise and the position was in the process of a
classification grievance that went through with another $12,000 raise.
Even better, it was the one branch that was expanding while the
government was cutting everywhere else.
Dave Smith
>
> Can you imagine ME prioritizing politeness? I've followed JWs down
> the street.
> I was nice to the Mormons one time when we lived in FL, but that was
> just to get a free copy of The Book of Mormon for my library.
A JW showed up at our place one weekend with some pamphlets. I told her
we didn't want. She told me that she had spoken to an older woman at our
home earlier that week and that she was interested. I told her that was
our baby sitter, a very nice woman who was too polite to tell her to
fuck off but I am not, so fuck off. I then sent a letter to the local JH
hall to tell them that they were not welcome and that if they came
around again they would be charged with trespassing. They don't come
around any more.
sf
<clas...@brick.net> wrote:
>On Jul 8, 12:31�pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 09:35:19 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo�
>>
>> <class...@brick.net> wrote:
>> >He is 7, going into second grade. �You can see why my wife is so
>> >angry.
>>
>> Neither one of you has admitted your part in this. �*YOU* two put your
>> child in that situation. �YOU knew what is implied by "Jesus party"
>> and had choices: decline the invitation or check in on your child, but
>> you didn't. �They did what evangelicals do, you did not act as
>> responsible parents and now you are angry. �Direct your anger
>> properly, live and learn. �If that's the worst thing that ever happens
>> to your son, thank your lucky stars and pat yourselves on the back
>> when he turns 21.
>>
>Did I say that we sent him there? He went of his own accord.
He needs to tell you where he's going to be from now on. I noticed
they were rescued by a neighbor boy's father who *did* know where his
son was. Work on that parenting thing.
>I found
>out about the Jesus party afterward, and I would not have minded him
>going to such a thing if the folks were reasonable. If he wanted to
>go to vacation Bible school at the church, I'd say, "Fine." These
>freaks were trying to pressure a 6 YO and a 7 YO to stay when they had
>expressed a desire to go home. I don't give a shit if they were
>demonstrating Tupperware. Adults should not pressure children into
>staying when the child expresses that he wants to leave. Don't you
>agree with that?
>
They used the same tactics they use on everyone. Velvet ropes and all
that stuff. Words are a powerful tool for adults, especially when the
child was raised to be polite. Your son is too young and
unsophisticated to know how to handle those situations. That's when
you need to step up to the plate and parent.
maxine
Yeah, that is too young to have the skills to wiggle out of something
like that. At that age, I helicoptered until I was ok with whatever
situation my kid was going into.
I do recall that there is something somewhere about not proselytizing
to anyone under 18. Don't recall now exactly what, but it came up
with some Pagans I knew.
maxine in ri
maxine
> On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 10:35:59 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo®
>
> <class...@brick.net> wrote:
> >She didn't ask me. She asked him. I have nothing to "take ownership
> >of."
>
> You're shirking your parental duties. If this was ahead of time, it's
> up to you to give him permission. If it was at the last moment, he
> needs to know he should ask you first.
>
> >This was ill timed too. I've been trying to instill in him tolerance
> >for people's various beliefs.
>
> Seven year old's don't notice something like that unless their parents
> are making a big deal out of it. This says more about you than it
> does about him.
>
> >He recently had a falling out with a neighborhood friend, partly over religion.
>
> Religious differences at seven??? No way. They barely notice skin
> color at that age.
Untrue. At 7 I was told I was going to hell because I wasn't a
catholic. I knew enough to tell the little twits there was no hell.
And I told my boyfriend at 5 that he would have to convert to marry
me....
maxine in ri
Bobo Bonobo®
> On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 10:35:59 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo®
>
> <class...@brick.net> wrote:
> >She didn't ask me. She asked him. I have nothing to "take ownership
> >of."
>
> You're shirking your parental duties. If this was ahead of time, it's
> up to you to give him permission. If it was at the last moment, he
> needs to know he should ask you first.
He asked me if he could go to a party in the back yard of the new
family, and I told him not to be late for dinner. Again, I don't care
what the heck, Jesus, Buddah, showing the kids their freakin' flower
garden. He repeatedly asked to leave. My wife just clarified that
he'd asked if he could "please" leave more than once, but they made it
clear that he was expected to stay.
This is the first time an adult has ever acted that inappropriately
toward him. If you are defending these freaks, you're nuts. If
you're telling me that I should just assume that Evangelical
Christians will use false imprisonment in order to force a 7 YO to
listen to their spiels, then you have a much lower opinion of the vast
majority of Evangelical Christians than I do. The Evangelical
Christians I know would--I'm pretty certain--find that creepy.
>
> >This was ill timed too. I've been trying to instill in him tolerance
> >for people's various beliefs.
>
> Seven year old's don't notice something like that unless their parents
> are making a big deal out of it. This says more about you than it
> does about him.
>
> >He recently had a falling out with a neighborhood friend, partly over religion.
>
> Religious differences at seven??? No way. They barely notice skin
> color at that age.
>
I'm willing to allow that your family isn't particularly bright. My
son knows all about race, the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow, Rosa
Parks, the bus boycott, the church bombings, MLK and his
assassination. The child next door is Black, and so is the kid he had
his religious conflict with. Our neighborhood has been integrated for
many decades, but it's not like kids don't know about race. They do.
There are little or no racial conflicts here because the neighborhood
has been integrated for so long.
My son was never taught that Santa or the Easter Bunny were anything
but pretend, and the difference between God and Santa was that the
parents were deliberately lying to the kids about Santa, whereas the
parents themselves actually believed what they were telling the kids
about God. I think his former friend acted horrified that my son
didn't believe in God, and my son probably told him that God was like
the Easter Bunny, imaginary. He didn't really explain exactly fully
what happened.
What makes it worse from my son's point is that his friend's much
loved grandmother was sick, and they were worried about her dying.
His friend was probably getting solace from the religious thing, maybe
he was talking about praying or his granny going to Heaven, and my son
should have thought about how his friend was feeling instead of
questioning his beliefs, but again, it was a teaching moment.
--Bryan
Bobo Bonobo®
> On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 10:42:42 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo®
My son never felt threatened, just bored. He thought that he had
agreed to listen to their drivel in return for a popsicle. This back
and forth has given me an idea. I'm going to teach him about the
Milgram experiment. He has already been coached such that he will
never stay when he wants to leave when the person trying to convince
him is not a legitimate authority figure.
A little while ago, the next door neighbor boy came over looking for
my son, who is at camp, and I asked him if he had been uncomfortable
and had wanted to leave, but didn't feel like he could. He said,
"Yes." I asked him if he had told his father about that, and he said,
"No." I got him to agree to tell his father, who incidentally, is a
police officer for a local college.
--Bryan
Dave Bugg
> Coincidentally, tonight is our block's walk and talk with a police
> officer night. We are going to ask the police to talk to the woman
> and tell her that as far as children are concerned, "No means no."
Bryan, wouldn't it be better to just go and talk with the woman yourself? I
don't see the need to have the police do anything; I see this more as a
neighbor to neighbor discussion of expectations concerning what happened to
your child. I would also believe that from and adult point of view, this
neighbor may not have recognized coersion in the same manner that you feel
occured. Again, that is why a friendly, but firm, talk would be the way I
would approach it. Dragging the police in seems to me to be creating a far
more polarizing atmosphere when there were no threats or other breaches of
the law.
Just sayin'.
--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan
sf
<clas...@brick.net> wrote:
>A little while ago, the next door neighbor boy came over looking for
>my son, who is at camp, and I asked him if he had been uncomfortable
>and had wanted to leave, but didn't feel like he could. He said,
>"Yes." I asked him if he had told his father about that, and he said,
>"No." I got him to agree to tell his father, who incidentally, is a
>police officer for a local college.
Good. This situation of such young kids running around without
telling their parents where they're going to be is creeping me out.
sf
wrote:
You don't think parents or maybe Sunday School and CDC had something
to do with that???
Mark Thorson
>
> I tried being polite with a religious crackpot that I used to work with.
> Being polite does not help. Debating or arguing with them does not
> help. Being rude can send them over the deep end. I can thank that guy
> for a transfer and huge raise. Any time the guy was around me he would
> preach at me. I was a favourite target because I am an atheist, and he
> seemed to think it was his job to convert me. I just started tell him
> to fuck off and stop preaching to me. That always sent him into an
> hysterical rage.
You tried to get along with him. That's the most anyone
can expect.
> One day I filed a religious harassment complaint. My poor boss was
> stuck between a rock and a hard place. The whacko was Jamaican and had
> filed numerous complaints of racial discrimination, all unfounded, and
> here I was filing a complaint against him. It was the best thing I ever
> did. I knew that my department was going to be privatized and my job
> would be gone. I had been applying for every opening that came along,
> but with no luck. they weren't even giving me interview. I ended up
> with a interview a few days later and got the job. I got an immediate
> $10,000 plus raise and the position was in the process of a
> classification grievance that went through with another $12,000 raise.
> Even better, it was the one branch that was expanding while the
> government was cutting everywhere else.
That's great! You used the system the way it was intended
to be used. You were a victim of a religious nutcase in the
workplace, and you deserved the better job that you got.
Bobo Bonobo®
He asked me if he could go. If these were normal Christians, they
would not attempt to "trap" him. I work for a church. Last week was
vacation Bible school. I have a positive relationship with
Christianity. I've even participated in social activism with church
members. I like, respect and care very much for many of them. My in-
laws are Christians. I don't mistrust Christians because the
overwhelming majority of them are trustworthy. I live in an area
where in decades past--when the public schools were not so good--
folks, including Atheists used to send their kids to the Catholic
school. I don't assume that Christians are freaks because they have
summer Bible thingies. The fact that they invited my son without
personally talking to my wife or me doesn't even bother me. It was
pressuring kids to stay when they had asked to leave. Nothing else
matters. Everything else is just the setting for that act of
misconduct.
> I wouldn't call it false imprisonment.
I don't think it rises to that level either, but it was about halfway
there.
>
> Have you considered paying this woman a visit and having a frank
> discussion?
I'm going to wait until we've talked about the matter with our local
police officer. Just happens that tonight is our block's "Walk N'
Talk" where citizens are encouraged to walk around their neighborhood
talking about crime prevention or whatever else with local cops. We
were planning on doing the walk anyway.
You don't "trap" a 7 YO.
--Bryan
Mark Thorson
>
> I'm not one of those folks who imagines a child molester lurking
> around every playground, and I don't think these people were any real
> threat, and it provided a teachable experience. Unless it is an
> appropriate authority figure, no one can ever tell you to stay
> somewhere you don't want to stay for any reason. Their status as
> adults IN NO WAY implies that they have ANY authority over you.
You should teach your kid to take control of the situation,
not to be a passive victim of these people. To do that,
he should be familiar with the appropriate tactics.
For example, doesn't the Bible say that when the jews
were leaving Egypt, Pharoah changed his mind and sent
the army after them, and this army included horses.
But a few days earlier, one of the plagues of Egypt killed
all of the animals in Egypt. So where did the horses
come from?
They can't both be true, so the Bible has got to be
wrong about one or the other. That means the Bible
isn't always true. There's stuff in there that can't
possibly be true. And if the Jesus freak comes up
with a way to dismiss this one, move on to another one.
There are hundreds of these contradictions in the Bible.
Google "contradictions in the bible" and you'll find lots
of web sites documenting them. There's also a couple
books that compile them, but who needs those when you
can just Google up a raft of juicy examples?
The first hit Google gave me is:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html
That's a good one because before it gets to its list
of contradictions, it has a short primer on the kinds
of dodges he can expect from Bible-thumpers.
Properly educated, they won't want to have your son
around. And he'll have a good time demonstrating
how to cow an adult in front of his friends.
Felice
"Bobo Bonobo�" <clas...@brick.net> wrote in message
news:a662513c-e5bc-42b1-9ac5-
These
> >freaks were trying to pressure a 6 YO and a 7 YO to stay when they had
> >expressed a desire to go home. I don't give a shit if they were
> >demonstrating Tupperware. Adults should not pressure children into
> >staying when the child expresses that he wants to leave. Don't you
> >agree with that?
Just had a thought: How often do adults pressure other adults to stay longer
than they really want to, especially if the "refreshments" haven't yet been
served? How often does a child see this behavior from his own parents and
from people they are visiting? Maybe, just maybe, he was trying to be a
"good guest" and didn't know how to leave gracefully!
But is still seems to me he shouldn't be allowed to go to a new neighbor's
house unless you and the neighbor have spoken about it.
Felice
jmcquown
news:4A54F3D4...@sonic.net...
There was a woman work who was reprimanded (more than once) for using
company email to send religious sayings to large groups of people every day.
It was a multi-cultural company with people of many (and some with no)
religious affliations so to say it was annoying to get these when you're
expecting legitimate company email is merely to be polite.
Then she started carrying on at people's desks (and unfortunately some other
zealots joined in, to the point where it got disruptive for those of us
trying to work. Then she took it to the break room. The term "break room"
implies you're on break; you go to have a cup of coffee, a snack, get away
from things for a few minutes. Walking into what amounts to a holy roller
meeting hardly qualifies as getting a break. When people complained further
she started reserving time in one of the conference rooms. Okay lady, this
isn't the COGIC convention. And those conference rooms are intended for
business meetings. Her zeal put many people off, and it put her on the
unemployment line.
Jill
Gloria P
> Food Snob� wrote:
>
>> Coincidentally, tonight is our block's walk and talk with a police
>> officer night. We are going to ask the police to talk to the woman
>> and tell her that as far as children are concerned, "No means no."
>
> Bryan, wouldn't it be better to just go and talk with the woman yourself? I
> don't see the need to have the police do anything; I see this more as a
> neighbor to neighbor discussion of expectations concerning what happened to
> your child. I would also believe that from and adult point of view, this
> neighbor may not have recognized coersion in the same manner that you feel
> occured. Again, that is why a friendly, but firm, talk would be the way I
> would approach it. Dragging the police in seems to me to be creating a far
> more polarizing atmosphere when there were no threats or other breaches of
> the law.
>
> Just sayin'.
It depends on whether you just want her to stop with your child or want
to save others the hassle of her efforts. If she is a "true believer"
she won't stop proselytizing until she is scared into stopping by some
authority figure.
Her motivation is a bit stronger than your local Amway, Tupperware, or
Avon lady. Trust me, I've been harassed by all four classes of folk.
gloria p
jmcquown
He asked me if he could go.
You said in several posts you didn't know where he was or that he'd gone to
this party. Apparently his mother knew, since you stated as much and said
she showed up there.
At this point in the thread you're back-peddling. Having read all the posts
and replies, nothing about this tale makes sense. Maybe you should start
over and tell it from the beginning again. As for "imprisoning" or
kidnapping your child, if you believe that then call the police.
Jill
Bryan
wrote:
> The message <05c55dda-4acf-4448-9258-e82e681af...@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
> from Food_Snob® <class...@brick.net> contains these words:
>
> > A couple days ago the mother from the new family that moved in a few
> > doors down invited the neighborhood kids to a Jesus Party in her back
> > yard.
> > officer night. We are going to ask the police to talk to the woman
> > and tell her that as far as children are concerned, "No means no."
>
>
> > I'm not one of those folks who imagines a child molester lurking
> > around every playground, and I don't think these people were any real
> > threat,
>
> unsupervised children to their property and then wouldn't let them leave
> mid-party.
> I think it stinks.
Their "'pure' front" was the whole point, but I think it stinks too.
>
> Have you asked your son, how many adults were present; if the adults
> played games with the children, if he liked the games, and if anyone
> was taking photos or video?
It was in the back yard. VERY out in the open. The only thing wrong
was pressuring him to stay when he asked to leave. I observed them
from afar today. They were being all indoctrinatey. Ever see Jesus
Camp?
http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/
>
> >and it provided a teachable experience.
>
> The bottom line is, trust his instinct to get away; see if you can
> get him to talk about what kind of things
> spoil a party, and what might make his friend who wanted to leave, so
> scared he couldn't.
There wasn't anything sexual, if that's what you're suggesting, and he
already knows about that, including all the mechanics of reproduction,
and he certainly knows that adults are never allowed to do anything
sexual with kids. The reason why the kid felt scared is because the
adults were being so in charge, giving instructions as to what to
repeat, telling them to sing songs, etc. and not giving his friend (my
son) the OK to leave when he kept asking.
>
> Janet.
--Bryan
Bryan
>
> That's a good one because before it gets to its list
> of contradictions, it has a short primer on the kinds
> of dodges he can expect from Bible-thumpers.
>
> Properly educated, they won't want to have your son
> around. And he'll have a good time demonstrating
> how to cow an adult in front of his friends.
He has been instructed not to try to undermine others' faith. Self
defense is another matter though. Soon I should teach him all the
things in the Bible that will make such people not want him anywhere
near them. It's an area of expertise of mine.
--Bryan
Bryan
> Dave Bugg wrote:
> > Food Snob® wrote:
>
> >> Coincidentally, tonight is our block's walk and talk with a police
> >> officer night. We are going to ask the police to talk to the woman
> >> and tell her that as far as children are concerned, "No means no."
>
> > Bryan, wouldn't it be better to just go and talk with the woman yourself? I
> > don't see the need to have the police do anything; I see this more as a
> > neighbor to neighbor discussion of expectations concerning what happened to
> > your child. I would also believe that from and adult point of view, this
> > neighbor may not have recognized coersion in the same manner that you feel
> > occured. Again, that is why a friendly, but firm, talk would be the way I
> > would approach it. Dragging the police in seems to me to be creating a far
> > more polarizing atmosphere when there were no threats or other breaches of
> > the law.
>
> > Just sayin'.
>
> It depends on whether you just want her to stop with your child or want
> to save others the hassle of her efforts. If she is a "true believer"
> she won't stop proselytizing until she is scared into stopping by some
> authority figure.
I want her to not intimidate any neighborhood children. When a child
says, "I want to go home," an adult should never say, "No, stay here."
>
> Her motivation is a bit stronger than your local Amway, Tupperware, or
> Avon lady. Trust me, I've been harassed by all four classes of folk.
They think that they are doing God's work.
>
> gloria p
--Bryan
Mark Thorson
Unprovoked, there's no reason to attack anyone's faith.
When they become overbearing, he should know how to
counter their zealotry in an effective way.
If it can be a demonstration which will be fun
and increase his status in front of his friends,
hey what's wrong with that?
Dave Bugg
> Dave Bugg wrote:
>> Food Snob� wrote:
>>
>>> Coincidentally, tonight is our block's walk and talk with a police
>>> officer night. We are going to ask the police to talk to the woman
>>> and tell her that as far as children are concerned, "No means no."
>>
>> Bryan, wouldn't it be better to just go and talk with the woman
>> yourself? I don't see the need to have the police do anything; I see
>> this more as a neighbor to neighbor discussion of expectations
>> concerning what happened to your child. I would also believe that
>> from and adult point of view, this neighbor may not have recognized
>> coersion in the same manner that you feel occured. Again, that is
>> why a friendly, but firm, talk would be the way I would approach it.
>> Dragging the police in seems to me to be creating a far more
>> polarizing atmosphere when there were no threats or other breaches
>> of the law. Just sayin'.
>
>
> It depends on whether you just want her to stop with your child or
> want to save others the hassle of her efforts. If she is a "true
> believer" she won't stop proselytizing until she is scared into
> stopping by some authority figure.
Proselytizing is not against the law. It is up to each parent to decide what
they wish to do for their own child. Each parent can talk to this person
should they wish. There is no reason to drag government authority into a
neigbor-to-neighbor dispute.
jmcquown
news:tMadnQE0JaT9qsjX...@giganews.com...
Who is to say this is an innocent woman who is simply proselytizing? She's
a "new neighbor" according to the OP. If so, who knows but that she may be
trying to induct children into a cult. Then again, probably not. The whole
tale is suspect if you ask me.
Jill
Dave Bugg
I suppose we could imagine and suppose all sorts of scenarios, but much
would be settled by talking to the woman, including what she is teaching. If
problems persist, then there is plenty of time to look at other options.
People are just too quick to have government solve problems that are easily
solved by themselves. Now if she had pitbulls, or neighborhood cats are
mysteriously going missing.....
Dave Smith
> There was a woman work who was reprimanded (more than once) for using
> company email to send religious sayings to large groups of people every
> day. It was a multi-cultural company with people of many (and some with
> no) religious affliations so to say it was annoying to get these when
> you're expecting legitimate company email is merely to be polite.
People like that are usually the first to complain that their religious
freedom is being denied.
>
> Then she started carrying on at people's desks (and unfortunately some
> other zealots joined in, to the point where it got disruptive for those
> of us trying to work. Then she took it to the break room. The term
> "break room" implies you're on break; you go to have a cup of coffee, a
> snack, get away from things for a few minutes. Walking into what
> amounts to a holy roller meeting hardly qualifies as getting a break.
> When people complained further she started reserving time in one of the
> conference rooms. Okay lady, this isn't the COGIC convention. And
> those conference rooms are intended for business meetings. Her zeal put
> many people off, and it put her on the unemployment line.
They just don't get it.
Bryan
I have no problem with the proselytizing. My issue was letting a
child leave when he asks to leave. The police officer agreed on that
point.
7 year old: Um, I'm going to go home.
adult: We're not done yet. We haven't even had our popsicles.
7 year old: Please, can I go?
adult: It's supposed to last until 5:00. It's not 5 yet.
7 year old: Can I please go home now?
adult: There's not much left. We're just about done.
If you think that that's in any way acceptable, for the adult to act
like the child didn't have their OK to leave, then I don't know what I
can say to convince you.
True, she didn't explicitly say, "You can't leave yet," but she
implied that he was not supposed to leave. State laws differ, and in
Missouri that would not be sufficient to charge her with false
imprisonment. That's fine. I don't want her prosecuted, nor sued.
They had in no way been led to believe that they were authorized to
act *in loco parentis*. I had never even met any of these folks.
>
> --
> Dave
--Bryan
Bryan
> jmcquown wrote:
> > "Dave Bugg" <davebu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
The problem was not the content of her teaching. It was pressuring a
child to stay and listen when he had voiced a desire to leave.
> If problems persist, then there is plenty of time to look at other options.
> People are just too quick to have government solve problems that are easily
> solved by themselves.
Now that I've told the policewoman, and our councilman who was
accompanying her, I can talk to the neighbor tomorrow. The neighbor
was not the one pressuring him to stay, but she stood idly by while
the religious facilitators that she brought into our neighborhood did
so.
My son got to meet our neighborhood officer who will soon be riding
her beat on her new bicycle. I love community policing, and think
that the police should know about the little details of conflicts
between citizens. They have the responsibility for enforcing laws
only when laws are broken, but they also are there to preempt
escalations by talking to people.
> Now if she had pitbulls, or neighborhood cats are
> mysteriously going missing.....
The pitbulls are whole nother thing :)
>
> --
> Dave
> What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
> you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan
Do you really ascribe to that?
--Bryan
Bryan
Have you caught any posts of mine about the Life Chain events?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/browse_frm/thread/8f5da06f11b93d5a/b694a5371f2d7454?lnk=gst&q=life+chain#b694a5371f2d7454
--Bryan
Bryan
> "Bobo Bonobo®" <class...@brick.net> wrote in message
>
> news:a662513c-e5bc-42b1-9ac5-
>
> These
>
> > >freaks were trying to pressure a 6 YO and a 7 YO to stay when they had
> > >expressed a desire to go home. I don't give a shit if they were
> > >demonstrating Tupperware. Adults should not pressure children into
> > >staying when the child expresses that he wants to leave. Don't you
> > >agree with that?
>
> Just had a thought: How often do adults pressure other adults to stay longer
> than they really want to, especially if the "refreshments" haven't yet been
> served? How often does a child see this behavior from his own parents and
> from people they are visiting? Maybe, just maybe, he was trying to be a
> "good guest" and didn't know how to leave gracefully!
He doesn't see that from us, but part of it was him trying to be a
good guest, but they couldn't know that. He asked to leave. They
were having none of that. If I had anticipated this *exact*
situation, I would have told him to just leave, like one of the other
kids did (another 7 YO).
>
> But is still seems to me he shouldn't be allowed to go to a new neighbor's
> house unless you and the neighbor have spoken about it.
It was her back yard, not her house. He knows better than to go into
a stranger's house. They live four houses down the street. I can see
their back yard (kind of) from our deck.
>
> Felice
--Bryan
marika
"Bryan" <bryang...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b0b8c690-5537-404c...@c36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>Have you caught any posts of mine about the Life Chain events?
>http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/browse_frm/thread/8f5da06f11b93d5a/b694a5371f2d7454?lnk=gst&q=life+chain#b694a5371f2d7454
that's terrific!
mk5000
"heels 6 inch make a boy want to bite his lip
look but don't touch unless you want to lose your innocence"--britney
spears, leather and lace
Bryan
> "Bobo Bonobo®" <class...@brick.net> wrote in message
Jill,
I have said that it didn't rise to the level of crininality. As to
how you surmised that my wife had foreknowledge, or that she "showed
up there," you just misread. I knew he was at a little party in a
back yard a few doors down. I did add more details as the thread went
on, but none of them were purposely contradictory, or even non-
purposefully. I'm not spinning fiction here. I reviewed every post
(I read very fast), and your accusation of my lying is unfounded.
It's fine that you dislike me, and you can accuse me of anything you
want (it's Usenet), but any careful reading proves you wrong.
You are disliked by plenty of folks here, as am I, but for different
reasons.
I needn't elaborate.
>
> Jill
--Bryan
marika
> People are just too quick to have government solve problems that are
> easily solved by themselves.
I just came back from listening to Senator DeMent speak. That was basically
his message. He was selling his book "Finding Freedom"
mk5000
"is life gonna get the best of you
kill the lights
take em off turn em off break em down
don't be scared make a move see me now"--britney spears
Bryan
> "Bryan" <bryangsimm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b0b8c690-5537-404c...@c36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
> >Have you caught any posts of mine about the Life Chain events?
>
> that's terrific!
Would you like an mp3 of Coathanger Days?
>
> mk5000
>
--Bryab
Janet Wilder
> I'm just as sure as you are that they meant no harm. Call me jaded...
> but when a backyard get together is called a Jesus party, that's a
> huge red flag warning "evangelism". Wake up and smell the coffee! If
> you've never had an evangelical at your door, you have no idea how
> hard it is to get rid of them *politely*. You put your child in an
> impossible situation and you should take ownership of it.
>
>
When my kids were growing up there were people in our neighborhood
hosting "Joy" parties. Not only did they proselytize to the children,
they frightened the heck out of them by telling them that they and their
parents were going to burn in hell for eternity because they had not
accepted Jesus Christ as their savior.
Just about all the local clergy went ballistic over these parties. The
leader of the anti-Joy party campaign was the priest from the local
Roman Catholic church. They got the municipality to put some kind of law
on the books that made it a misdemeanor to talk religion to minors if
their parents were not present or something like that.
My kids never went to one, but they had been invited. I didn't send them
because I didn't know the mother who was making the party. When I found
out from the other neighborhood moms what these Joy parties were, I was
glad I didn't let my little ones go. I can just imagine how such a
person would treat a little Jewish child.
I know these people believe in what they are doing, but the religious
practices of other people's children are not their business.
--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.
cybercat
"Janet Wilder" <kellie...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> I know these people believe in what they are doing, but the religious
> practices of other people's children are not their business.
>
Excellent point--one of two, the other being, know what your children are up
to. Booboo has no reason to complain.
Bryan
wrote:
> The message
> <b069dbc8-cf4d-46b9-a8f7-b1b8166f8...@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
> from Bryan <bryangsimm...@gmail.com> contains these words:
> > > unsupervised children to their property and then wouldn't let them leave
> > > mid-party.
> > > I think it stinks.
> > Their "'pure' front" was the whole point, but I think it stinks too.
>
> and a mother,
> as assurance of innocent intent. Her behaviour was distinctly off colour
> on several counts.
> I would not DREAM of inviting 7 yr olds I don't know, to spend an
> afternoon here unless I had cleared it with their parents.
I wouldn't either, but it was SO obviously about the religious thing.
>
> > There wasn't anything sexual, if that's what you're suggesting,
>
> There is inappropriate adult behaviour whose motive a young child
> might not identify. But you or I might take a different view.
You were either sexually abused yourself, or you have been heavily
influenced by media (daytime talk shows?).
>
> Janet.
--Bryan
blake murphy
> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> Who is to say this is an innocent woman who is simply proselytizing?
>
> I suppose we could imagine and suppose all sorts of scenarios, but much
> would be settled by talking to the woman, including what she is teaching. If
> problems persist, then there is plenty of time to look at other options.
> People are just too quick to have government solve problems that are easily
> solved by themselves. Now if she had pitbulls, or neighborhood cats are
> mysteriously going missing.....
or both...
your pal,
blake
blake murphy
> On Jul 8, 1:14�pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 10:42:42 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo�
>>
>>
>>
>> <class...@brick.net> wrote:
>>>On Jul 8, 12:31�pm, sf �<s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 09:35:19 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo�
>>
>>>> <class...@brick.net> wrote:
>>>> >He is 7, going into second grade. �You can see why my wife is so
>>>> >angry.
>>
>>>> Neither one of you has admitted your part in this. �*YOU* two put your
>>>> child in that situation. �YOU knew what is implied by "Jesus party"
>>>> and had choices: decline the invitation or check in on your child, but
>>>> you didn't. �They did what evangelicals do, you did not act as
>>>> responsible parents and now you are angry. �Direct your anger
>>>> properly, live and learn. �If that's the worst thing that ever happens
>>>> to your son, thank your lucky stars and pat yourselves on the back
>>>> when he turns 21.
>>
>>>Did I say that we sent him there? �He went of his own accord.
>>
>> He needs to tell you where he's going to be from now on. �I noticed
>> they were rescued by a neighbor boy's father who *did* know where his
>> son was. �Work on that parenting thing.
>>
>>>I found
>>>out about the Jesus party afterward, and I would not have minded him
>>>going to such a thing if the folks were reasonable. �If he wanted to
>>>go to vacation Bible school at the church, I'd say, "Fine." �These
>>>freaks were trying to pressure a 6 YO and a 7 YO to stay when they had
>>>expressed a desire to go home. �I don't give a shit if they were
>>>demonstrating Tupperware. �Adults should not pressure children into
>>>staying when the child expresses that he wants to leave. �Don't you
>>>agree with that?
>>
>> They used the same tactics they use on everyone. �Velvet ropes and all
>> that stuff. �Words are a powerful tool for adults, especially when the
>> child was raised to be polite. �Your son is too young and
>> unsophisticated to know how to handle those situations. �That's when
>> you need to step up to the plate and parent.
>>
>
> My son never felt threatened, just bored. He thought that he had
> agreed to listen to their drivel in return for a popsicle. This back
> and forth has given me an idea. I'm going to teach him about the
> Milgram experiment. He has already been coached such that he will
> never stay when he wants to leave when the person trying to convince
> him is not a legitimate authority figure.
>
> A little while ago, the next door neighbor boy came over looking for
> my son, who is at camp, and I asked him if he had been uncomfortable
> and had wanted to leave, but didn't feel like he could. He said,
> "Yes." I asked him if he had told his father about that, and he said,
> "No." I got him to agree to tell his father, who incidentally, is a
> police officer for a local college.
>
> --Bryan
for a rock 'n' roll star, you sure seem to be fond of involving the cops in
things.
hey! that's it! you can write a hard-hitting punk-rock song about the
whole situation. give them what for, i say!
blake
blake murphy
>
> When my kids were growing up there were people in our neighborhood
> hosting "Joy" parties. Not only did they proselytize to the children,
> they frightened the heck out of them by telling them that they and their
> parents were going to burn in hell for eternity because they had not
> accepted Jesus Christ as their savior.
>
> Just about all the local clergy went ballistic over these parties. The
> leader of the anti-Joy party campaign was the priest from the local
> Roman Catholic church. They got the municipality to put some kind of law
> on the books that made it a misdemeanor to talk religion to minors if
> their parents were not present or something like that.
>
> My kids never went to one, but they had been invited. I didn't send them
> because I didn't know the mother who was making the party. When I found
> out from the other neighborhood moms what these Joy parties were, I was
> glad I didn't let my little ones go. I can just imagine how such a
> person would treat a little Jewish child.
>
check it for horns, obviously.
your pal,
blake
blake murphy
> Food Snob� wrote:
>> A couple days ago the mother from the new family that moved in a few
>> doors down invited the neighborhood kids to a Jesus Party in her back
>> yard. She told them it would be lots of fun. Some of them went,
>> including my son and the boy from next door who is one year younger.
>> When my son said he was leaving the older of the women who were
>> talking about Jesus said something like, Don't go yet, we're going to
>> have popsicles. A few minutes later my son said he was leaving and
>> the woman said, Just stay for a few minutes more.
>
> Well, if you let the kid go, knowing that it was a "Jesus party" you
> should have sensed warning lights and buzzers.
>>
maybe he thought there would be jesus juice there.
your pal,
michael
blake murphy
> On Jul 8, 10:14�pm, Janet Baraclough <janet.and.j...@zetnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> The message
>> <b069dbc8-cf4d-46b9-a8f7-b1b8166f8...@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
>> from Bryan <bryangsimm...@gmail.com> contains these words:
>>
>>
>>> There wasn't anything sexual, if that's what you're suggesting,
>>
>> �There is �inappropriate adult �behaviour whose motive a young child
>> might not identify. But you or I might take a different view.
>
> You were either sexually abused yourself, or you have been heavily
> influenced by media (daytime talk shows?).
>>
>> � Janet.
>
> --Bryan
jesus, bobo. this really takes the communion cake.
blake
Gregory Morrow
I am gawping in awe as I read this thread...
--
Best
Greg
Gloria P
> I know these people believe in what they are doing, but the religious
> practices of other people's children are not their business.
>
You and I believe that, but they don't. They think they are saving
people from going to hell. Mormons have something like "baptism in
absentia" where they use the names of dead non-Mormons and baptize or
enroll them into the Mormon faith so they will be "saved". When the
family of the deceased finds out, they are h#llish angry but they can't
really do anything about it.
As someone said, the worst part for me is the fear they insinuate into
these kids that they and their loved ones are doomed. We had a family
of hard-core Baptists living next door for a while and the 4 younger
kids (under age 10) would frequently come over to "help" us in the
garden and beg us to come to their church "because I couldn't stand it
if when we all die we are in Heaven and you're not." Um...no thanks.
gloria p
Dave Smith
A few years ago I took my wife to a funeral for an old friend of her
mother.I dropped her off and picked her up. I didn't go because I hardly
knew the old girl and knew that she had been estranged from her (only)
son for years and it was over religion. She, like my MiL, had been an
atheist. The son and his wife were holy rollers.
When I went to pick up my wife she took me in to meet the son and his
wife and they invited me to have some coffee and goodies. The wife asked
if my parents were still alive. I told her that my father had died but
my mother was alive, but not doing so well. She asked my mother's name
and I told her it was Helen. Then she told me that she would pray for
Helen. I figured the best response was to say thank you, so I did. She
kept coming back and telling me that she was going to pray for Helen.
After she did that a half dozen times I realized that she didn't really
care that much about my mother. She just wanted me to know what a good
Christian she was.
For the next few years she kept sending my wife letters, mostly
preaching, until my wife finally wrote back and told her that she didn't
really appreciate being preached to and asked her to stop. Thank
goodness we never heard from them again.
Michael Kuettner
going missing ?
Cheers,
Michael "my cat is harmlaaaaaaaaaaarrrrgggghh" Kuettner
cybercat
"blake murphy" <blakepm...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:egtqwyj2hvxb$.1c1wmftmczgkt$.dlg@40tude.net...
LMAO
graham
"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4a54df98$0$3875$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com...
> Bobo Bonobo� wrote:
>>
>> Can you imagine ME prioritizing politeness? I've followed JWs down
>> the street.
>> I was nice to the Mormons one time when we lived in FL, but that was
>> just to get a free copy of The Book of Mormon for my library.
>
>
>
> A JW showed up at our place one weekend with some pamphlets. I told her we
> didn't want. She told me that she had spoken to an older woman at our home
> earlier that week and that she was interested. I told her that was our
> baby sitter, a very nice woman who was too polite to tell her to fuck off
> but I am not, so fuck off. I then sent a letter to the local JH hall to
> tell them that they were not welcome and that if they came around again
> they would be charged with trespassing. They don't come around any more.
A pair came to my door and invited me to some service at easter. I told
them that I was not superstitious. That stopped them in their tracks!
Graham
graham
> jmcquown wrote:
>
>
>> There was a woman work who was reprimanded (more than once) for using
>> company email to send religious sayings to large groups of people every
>> day. It was a multi-cultural company with people of many (and some with
>> no) religious affliations so to say it was annoying to get these when
>> you're expecting legitimate company email is merely to be polite.
>
> People like that are usually the first to complain that their religious
> freedom is being denied.
>
They don't understand that freedom of religion also means freedom *from*
religion.
Graham
cybercat
"graham" <gst...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:6ht5m.34098$Qk7....@newsfe22.iad...
I bet. Who's next, the fucking Easter Bunny? Pick your battles, man.
graham
> sf wrote:
>
>
>> I'm just as sure as you are that they meant no harm.
>
> anything they say or do ... intheir minds.
>
Although some of my sons' friends were from very religious families, I
raised them to think logically and not believe in their friends' fairy
tales. I found out that the grade 2 teacher was making the kids recite the
lord's prayer every morning so I contacted the school board (public) and put
a stop to that!
Now that they are adults, my sons have thanked me for not brainwashing them
with all that nonsense. There's no way I would have allowed them to go to a
jesus party!
Graham
graham
> Gloria P wrote:
>> Dave Bugg wrote:
>>> Food Snob� wrote:
>>>
>>>> officer night. We are going to ask the police to talk to the woman
>>>> and tell her that as far as children are concerned, "No means no."
>>>
>>> yourself? I don't see the need to have the police do anything; I see
>>> this more as a neighbor to neighbor discussion of expectations
>>> concerning what happened to your child. I would also believe that
>>> from and adult point of view, this neighbor may not have recognized
>>> coersion in the same manner that you feel occured. Again, that is
>>> why a friendly, but firm, talk would be the way I would approach it.
>>> Dragging the police in seems to me to be creating a far more
>>> polarizing atmosphere when there were no threats or other breaches
>>> of the law. Just sayin'.
>>
>>
>> It depends on whether you just want her to stop with your child or
>> want to save others the hassle of her efforts. If she is a "true
>> believer" she won't stop proselytizing until she is scared into
>> stopping by some authority figure.
>
> Proselytizing is not against the law.
Pity!!!
cybercat
cybercat
Do you always take such a strong, brave stand against such scary, dangerous
sorts? I bet you're popular in your neighborhood.
Dan Abel
<05c55dda-4acf-4448...@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
Food Snob� <clas...@brick.net> wrote:
> A couple days ago the mother from the new family that moved in a few
> doors down invited the neighborhood kids to a Jesus Party in her back
> yard. She told them it would be lots of fun. Some of them went,
> including my son and the boy from next door who is one year younger.
> When my son said he was leaving the older of the women who were
> talking about Jesus said something like, Don't go yet, we're going to
> have popsicles. A few minutes later my son said he was leaving and
> the woman said, Just stay for a few minutes more.
>
> The neighbor boy was very uncomfortable, but he was scared to ask to
> leave. His father showed up to tell him when dinner was going to be,
> and he told his dad he wanted to go home, so they left and my son said
> he was going with them and ,Goodbye, and that time they didn't
> pressure him to stay. They gave them the popsicles and the kids
> left. Now I don't think what they did quite qualifies as false
> imprisonment*, but it was certainly inappropriate. I have been trying
> to teach my son religious tolerance, and then these clowns do that
> crap. I might add, my wife is mad as Hell.
>
> While their actions don't quite qualify as false imprisonment, when
> one of the kids said he wanted to leave, they should have thanked him
> for coming, told him he was welcome back any time, and they could heve
> told him something like Jesus loves him or something. However
> inappropriate it is to proselytize to the neighbor kids, telling them
> not to leave when they want to leave crosses a whole different line
> with me.
I'm tempted to say that either the children were wandering around
unsupervised, or they were under the supervision of the neighbor.
Perhaps it isn't that simple.
--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
da...@sonic.net
pavane
"cybercat" <cyber...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Hdu5m.24424$Wx7....@newsfe04.iad...
Possibly not, but he is quite necessary to stop this incessant and growing
balderdash of "you must think the way I do, or else I will have your
children brainwashed to think this way." Do you really think that children
should be indoctrinated into lords' prayers against their families' wishes?
I really don't think so and am surprised that you would espouse the cause
of brainwashing and christ-beating into the youth of today or anyday.
I had the impression that you think.
pavane
Dave Smith
> Although some of my sons' friends were from very religious families, I
> raised them to think logically and not believe in their friends' fairy
> tales. I found out that the grade 2 teacher was making the kids recite the
> lord's prayer every morning so I contacted the school board (public) and put
> a stop to that!
> Now that they are adults, my sons have thanked me for not brainwashing them
> with all that nonsense. There's no way I would have allowed them to go to a
> jesus party!
My wife attends (Anglican) church and they are pretty reasonable. I
agreed to let my son attend Sunday school because I thought that they
would give him a basic background on Christian beliefs in a reasonable
manner and without a lot of pressure. I figured it was better to give
him a relatively sane version of it than to risk him becoming prey to
the born again crowd.
Dave Smith
>
> For the next few years she kept sending my wife letters, mostly
> preaching, until my wife finally wrote back and told her that she didn't
> really appreciate being preached to and asked her to stop. Thank
> goodness we never heard from them again.
I should add that when the son spoke at her funeral he said that in her
later days she found the lord. They came to see her one day and were
happy to see that his mother was reading the bible. This was a woman who
got a university degree in English and had owned a book store. She was
a voracious reader. When they moved her into the "christian" old folks
home they got rid of all her books. There was nothing else for the woman
to read.
marika
"Bryan" <bryang...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e2819790-bf3b-4aff...@h18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>Would you like an mp3 of Coathanger Days?
>
>
why not. I'd be lying if I said I would listen to it. Mostly because I am
not sure what to download to listen to an MP3
mk5000
Woman jailed after man complains about her cooking
AP - Thursday, July 09, 2009 8:46:14 PM
Woman jailed after man complains about her cooking
AP
A southwest Florida woman was arrested after deputies said she assaulted her
71-year-old common-law husband after he complained about her cooking. A Lee
County Sheriff's Office arrest report shows 66-year-old Meredith Hart
Mulcahy was charged with battery on an elderly person Tuesday night.
Deputies said the man got into an argument with her about undercooked
potatoes and burnt bread. He went to the bedroom and began eating, and
authorities said the woman then threw a phone at him.
Deputies said Mulcahy became belligerent in the back seat of the patrol car
and told them that she "burned the bread she was cooking because she was1
so intoxicated." She was in the Lee County Jail on Wednesday pending a
$1,500 bond.
Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig
(snip)
> --Bryan
====================
I used to teach my (Jewish) "sunday school" kids that different kinds
of people would react differently when their Jewishness or non-
Christianity came up.
Some will say "Oh cool! I never had a Jewish friend before." Then you
can share your religions as part of your friendship and learn a lot
about each other.
Some will say "Oh really. Let's go shoot hoops" and it may never come
up again.
Some will try to change your mind. "What do you mean? EVERYBODY
believes in Christmas!" To them you say "I'm very happy being
Jewish. Please don't try to change my mind." If they keep it up.
just say "Im sorry but we just can't talk about religion then. Let's
talk about sports or movies or something else." If they still insist,
walk away and don't look back.
A very few might say "You dirty jew, you killed Jesus." Punch that
one in the stomach and run like hell.
I checked back with a few kids years later. It works.
Lynn in Fargo
Still missionary-proofing the next generation of Jewish kids in North
Dakota
Bobo Bonobo®
> In article
> <05c55dda-4acf-4448-9258-e82e681af...@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
Kids *should* wander unsupervised. Almost everyone here is old enough
to have wandered unsupervised. On Saturdays or Summer weekdays, I
left after breakfast and showed up for lunch at about lunchtime. My
mother didn't ask where I'd been. I'll be damned if I'm going to
hover over my child, suffocating him with my loving concern. I don't
see a molester looming around every corner. I don't watch TV news.
After lunch, I was free to leave again, with the expectation that I'd
show up in plenty of time for dinner. Sometimes my mother would ask
what I was doing, but it was more just making conversation. If I'd
had an interesting experience, I might initiate the conversation. The
assumption was that we lived in a safe neighborhood, and that I was a
reasonable kid. We just extended his range another few blocks to the
south because we think that he can safely cross a particular street
which is a 20mph zone.
Tomorrow we are going to bike together to his Summer camp, which is
less than a mile, and requires crossing a 35mph street. He'll lock
his bike up, and I'll ride home. I'll ride back there by 3pm, and
we'll ride home together, and our route takes us past a frozen custard
stand where he can get either a kiddie sized cone (which I will pay
for), or something more expensive that he will pay for himself from
allowance and money for chores. The reason for him getting this treat
of biking to camp is that he really tried hard at his swim meet this
evening, and the fact that I'll be available because I'm on
staycation. His mother is in Chicago on business, and I'm
compensating for her absence by giving him more attention. He was
going to sleep on a sleeping bag in my room tonight, but being
exhausted from his swim meet, he konked out on his own bed, so I'm
going to sleep on the sleeping bag in his room tonight.
Dan, my child is well cared for, and is given freedom commensurate
with him demonstrating responsibility. The one exception is my not
having insisted on him eating enough green veggies, and general food
pickiness, but you pick your battles.
I made a bigger deal about the incident with the fundies partly
because my spouse was so pissed off. I still contend that when a 7 YO
asks to go home, it is out of line for a grownup to pressure him to
stay. Yesterday morning I explained to him the jist of the Milgram
Experiment, and he was attentive and comprehended what I said to the
extent that his level of maturity allowed.
Right now, I'm feeling very good about the parenting thing, with the
exception of the above mentioned food pickinesses. The one veggie
that he likes is broccoli. I hate broccoli. I hate the smell of it,
but I prepare it with love for my spouse and child.
As I have stated *ad nauseum* in this thread, it's not about the
proselytizing, but the mindset of adults who prioritized their
opportunity to sermonize over a 7 YO's desire to extract himself from
their indoctrination session. Giving a child the impression that he
is not free to leave is creepy at best, and that's what I feel
happened. I have that on good authority from a person who has been
taught well not to lie; when my son told me about what happened, I had
every reason to believe that it was the truth.
>
> --
> Dan Abel
--Bryan
Bobo Bonobo®
wrote:
>
>
> A very few might say "You dirty jew, you killed Jesus." Punch that
> one in the stomach and run like hell.
>
> I checked back with a few kids years later. It works.
I'm not going to address that specifically, but I was in a drive thru
at 4:39 this morning, and when we didn't get service because the
workers just decided that they weren't going to take any orders (I
talked to the owner today who said that he will review the RDVDs from
their cameras) one of the customers in line behind me started yelling
about "niggers," I just left. Luckily, I was first in the queue. My
son was in the car with me, and he has been taught about racism, but I
was embarrassed that anyone might associate me with that crap. Racism/
anti-Semitisn and the like are poisonous to a free society. It wasn't
White guilt, but a disgust that I would in any way be connected to
those racial slurs.
>
> Lynn in Fargo
--Bryan
Paco
"Food Snob�" <clas...@brick.net> wrote in message
news:05c55dda-4acf-4448...@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
> A couple days ago the mother from the new family that moved in a few
> doors down invited the neighborhood kids to a Jesus Party in her back
> yard. She told them it would be lots of fun. Some of them went,
> including my son and the boy from next door who is one year younger.
> When my son said he was leaving the older of the women who were
> talking about Jesus said something like, Don't go yet, we're going to
> have popsicles. A few minutes later my son said he was leaving and
> the woman said, Just stay for a few minutes more.
>
> The neighbor boy was very uncomfortable, but he was scared to ask to
> leave. His father showed up to tell him when dinner was going to be,
> and he told his dad he wanted to go home, so they left and my son said
> he was going with them and ,Goodbye, and that time they didn't
> pressure him to stay. They gave them the popsicles and the kids
> left. Now I don't think what they did quite qualifies as false
> imprisonment*, but it was certainly inappropriate. I have been trying
> to teach my son religious tolerance, and then these clowns do that
> crap. I might add, my wife is mad as Hell.
>
> While their actions don't quite qualify as false imprisonment, when
> one of the kids said he wanted to leave, they should have thanked him
> for coming, told him he was welcome back any time, and they could heve
> told him something like Jesus loves him or something. However
> inappropriate it is to proselytize to the neighbor kids, telling them
> not to leave when they want to leave crosses a whole different line
> with me.
>
> Coincidentally, tonight is our block's walk and talk with a police
> officer night. We are going to ask the police to talk to the woman
> and tell her that as far as children are concerned, "No means no."
> I'm not one of those folks who imagines a child molester lurking
> around every playground, and I don't think these people were any real
> threat, and it provided a teachable experience. Unless it is an
> appropriate authority figure, no one can ever tell you to stay
> somewhere you don't want to stay for any reason. Their status as
> adults IN NO WAY implies that they have ANY authority over you.
>
> * "Intentionally restraining another person without having the legal
> right to do so. It's not necessary that physical force be used;
> threats or a show of apparent authority are sufficient. False
> imprisonment is a misdemeanor and a tort (a civil wrong)."
> source--
> http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/11865ee4-8734-4565-863b06b64ae7e727/alpha/f/
>
> --Bryan
Excellent parenting skills, Bobo. To quote you, from another post in this
thread, "I had never even met any of these folks." One would have to
surmise that you had no idea what kind of people these may have been. Think
of the potential risks : Miracle Whip. Velveeta. Jarred mayo. Trans
fats. HFCS. For God's Sake, they could be... Republicans!!!
Giusi
"cybercat"
> Do you always take such a strong, brave stand against such scary,
> dangerous > sorts? I bet you're popular in your neighborhood.
You do not have children and do not want them. Therefore, IMO, you don't
get to criticize others' child rearing. Basically, if you haven't done it
you haven't a clue.
jmcquown
When I was in high school the instructor who taught Spanish was a devout
Catholic. Prayer had been banned in public schools but she insisted on
everyone reciting the Lords Prayer (in Spanish) at the start of every class.
I and several others stepped out of the room while that was going on. I was
not sent to school to have religion shoved down my throat, not even in the
most vague sense of the word. It certainly didn't help me learn Spanish ;)
Jill
jmcquown
news:7bmnujF...@mid.individual.net...
I remember having a father/son Baptist duo show up at the door to my
apartment, all spiffed up in their matching Sunday suits, inviting me to
attend their church. I tried to be polite... rather than tell them I think
they're full of hoohey I said, "Thank you, but I already belong to a
church." Oh! What church? They started ticking off the names of Baptist
churches in the area (as if there couldn't possibly be any other kind of
church). I was stymied; I don't belong to a church. Finally I said no,
it's a Catholic church. I swear they literally backed away from my door.
It was almost as though they were making signs against the devil as they
backed up and walked away. Yes, folks, this is the kind of religion we need
to spread door to door, neighbor to neighbor. The Church of Intolerance.
Jill
Bobo Bonobo®
> "Bryan" <bryangsimm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:e2819790-bf3b-4aff...@h18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>
> >Would you like an mp3 of Coathanger Days?
>
> why not. I'd be lying if I said I would listen to it. Mostly because I am
> not sure what to download to listen to an MP3
Does your computer have Windows Media Player?
>
> mk5000
>
--Bryan
Bobo Bonobo®
> "Food Snob®" <class...@brick.net> wrote in message
>
> > --Bryan
>
> Excellent parenting skills, Bobo. To quote you, from another post in this
> thread, "I had never even met any of these folks." One would have to
> surmise that you had no idea what kind of people these may have been. Think
> of the potential risks : Miracle Whip. Velveeta. Jarred mayo. Trans
> fats. HFCS. For God's Sake, they could be... Republicans!!!
Whatever else they were, they were people who pressured a 7 YO to stay
when he voiced repeatedly that he wanted to leave. If they are
Republicans they will be very lonely on this block.
--Bryan
enigma
ack! doesn't that count as elder abuse?
i'd read the bible if nothing else was available, but i'd be
chuckling & annotating.
oh, Bryan, making sure the kid has some background in Christian
religion is a good thing. that way he'll find all the jokes in Good
Omens & you won't spend days explaining them (i just read Good Omens
with my 8 year old & since he has so little religious background, it
was kinda painful... but at least he's old enough now to understand
telling people who are religious that "it's all mythology" is rude
<g>)
lee
enigma
news:Hdu5m.24424$Wx7....@newsfe04.iad:
> Do you always take such a strong, brave stand against such
> scary, dangerous sorts? I bet you're popular in your
> neighborhood.
http://www.cefonline.com/content/category/4/13/27/
yeah, these people are completely rational...
lee
Jean B.
--
Jean B.
sf
wrote:
>Mormons have something like "baptism in
>absentia" where they use the names of dead non-Mormons and baptize or
>enroll them into the Mormon faith so they will be "saved". When the
>family of the deceased finds out, they are h#llish angry but they can't
>really do anything about it.
Why would they be mad? So what? AFAIC people can do whatever they
want "in absentia" after I'm dead. Go ahead, save my soul... if I
have one to save.
--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Bobo Bonobo®
> On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 11:49:24 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> > On Jul 8, 1:14 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 10:42:42 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo®
>
> >> <class...@brick.net> wrote:
> >>>On Jul 8, 12:31 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 09:35:19 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo®
>
> >>>> <class...@brick.net> wrote:
> >>>> >He is 7, going into second grade. You can see why my wife is so
> >>>> >angry.
>
> >>>> Neither one of you has admitted your part in this. *YOU* two put your
> >>>> child in that situation. YOU knew what is implied by "Jesus party"
> >>>> and had choices: decline the invitation or check in on your child, but
> >>>> you didn't. They did what evangelicals do, you did not act as
> >>>> responsible parents and now you are angry. Direct your anger
> >>>> properly, live and learn. If that's the worst thing that ever happens
> >>>> to your son, thank your lucky stars and pat yourselves on the back
> >>>> when he turns 21.
>
> >>>Did I say that we sent him there? He went of his own accord.
>
> >> He needs to tell you where he's going to be from now on. I noticed
> >> they were rescued by a neighbor boy's father who *did* know where his
> >> son was. Work on that parenting thing.
>
> >>>I found
> >>>out about the Jesus party afterward, and I would not have minded him
> >>>going to such a thing if the folks were reasonable. If he wanted to
> >>>go to vacation Bible school at the church, I'd say, "Fine." These
> >>>freaks were trying to pressure a 6 YO and a 7 YO to stay when they had
> >>>expressed a desire to go home. I don't give a shit if they were
> >>>demonstrating Tupperware. Adults should not pressure children into
> >>>staying when the child expresses that he wants to leave. Don't you
> >>>agree with that?
>
> >> They used the same tactics they use on everyone. Velvet ropes and all
> >> that stuff. Words are a powerful tool for adults, especially when the
> >> child was raised to be polite. Your son is too young and
> >> unsophisticated to know how to handle those situations. That's when
> >> you need to step up to the plate and parent.
>
> > My son never felt threatened, just bored. He thought that he had
> > agreed to listen to their drivel in return for a popsicle. This back
> > and forth has given me an idea. I'm going to teach him about the
> > Milgram experiment. He has already been coached such that he will
> > never stay when he wants to leave when the person trying to convince
> > him is not a legitimate authority figure.
>
> > A little while ago, the next door neighbor boy came over looking for
> > my son, who is at camp, and I asked him if he had been uncomfortable
> > and had wanted to leave, but didn't feel like he could. He said,
> > "Yes." I asked him if he had told his father about that, and he said,
> > "No." I got him to agree to tell his father, who incidentally, is a
> > police officer for a local college.
>
> > --Bryan
>
> for a rock 'n' roll star, you sure seem to be fond of involving the cops in
> things.
I'm not a rockstar, Blake.
>
> hey! that's it! you can write a hard-hitting punk-rock song about the
> whole situation. give them what for, i say!
Have you heard my stuff? Do you even know what you're writing of?
Listen you wretched old hippie. I'd involve the cops in a second if
that was the most effective tool for revenge. When I was about 19 or
20, my band, Minimal State, was doing a basement show. Some
longhaired rednecks showed up looking to beat up some punkrockers. I
went out and tackled their leader and held him down while another guy
called the police. See? I knew for sure that this guy was the sort
who would never leave the house without a bag of weed. I got him
busted for weed. I did the thing that hurt him most and me least. He
left the state to avoid drug charges. I turned the piece of shit into
a seventeen year old fugitive. I rid the high school of a piece of
shit redneck.
>
> blake
--Bryan
John Kane
> "Gloria P" <gpues...@comcast.net> wrote in message
I don't think the Baptists around here are that bad. :) I do remember
hearing some mad US preacher on the radio a few years ago who
'claimed' to be baptist and when someone in the call-in part of the
show mentioned the Catholic bible (which apparently has one or two
more books than the KJV he became completely irrational, ranting and
raving wildly. I suspect that he was foaming at the mouth but the
radio does not convey these subtiltes.
John Kane Kingston ON Canada
John Kane
> "Bryan" <bryangsimm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Lucky man. I once met a woman who was doing her second sentence for
killing a husband who had criticized her cooking.
graham
"enigma" <eni...@evil.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9C446085B1D...@199.125.85.9...
> Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in
> news:4a569b65$0$3540$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com:
>
>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>
>>> For the next few years she kept sending my wife letters, mostly
>>> preaching, until my wife finally wrote back and told her that
>>> she didn't really appreciate being preached to and asked her to
>>> stop. Thank goodness we never heard from them again.
>>
>> I should add that when the son spoke at her funeral he said that
>> in her later days she found the lord. They came to see her one
>> day and were happy to see that his mother was reading the bible.
>> This was a woman who
>> got a university degree in English and had owned a book store.
>> She was
>> a voracious reader. When they moved her into the "christian" old
>> folks home they got rid of all her books. There was nothing else
>> for the woman to read.
>
> ack! doesn't that count as elder abuse?
> i'd read the bible if nothing else was available, but i'd be
> chuckling & annotating.
>
> oh, Bryan, making sure the kid has some background in Christian
> religion is a good thing.
Rubbish! Why fill those little, impressionable brains with superstitious
nonsense, lies and horror stories?
> but at least he's old enough now to understand
> telling people who are religious that "it's all mythology" is rude
It's no ruder than bible-thumping goddists trying to ram their pathetic
beliefs down others' throats!
sf
Irfanview with the mp3 plugin is an alternative.
enigma
news:amI5m.23413$Kn1....@newsfe09.iad:
>
> "enigma" <eni...@evil.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C446085B1D...@199.125.85.9...
>> oh, Bryan, making sure the kid has some background in Christian
>> religion is a good thing.
>
> Rubbish! Why fill those little, impressionable brains with
> superstitious nonsense, lies and horror stories?
because a good deal of literature requires some background in
religion to make any sense at all.
trust me, if you have absolutely no background in christian
religion, Good Omens makes no sense. you can't understand the satire
& jokes *unless* you know something about the bible & religion.
>> but at least he's old enough now to understand
>> telling people who are religious that "it's all mythology" is
>> rude
>
> It's no ruder than bible-thumping goddists trying to ram their
> pathetic beliefs down others' throats!
this is true, but not all religious people are bible-thumpers (or
even of Judeo-Christian-Islamist persuasion). if no one is trying to
cram a religion at you, you don't have a right to mock their beliefs.
i do agree that if someone is trying to tell him what to believe, he
has every right to call them on their myths.
lee
Dan Abel
<e4f0b7af-ce92-419f...@h2g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
Bobo Bonobo� <clas...@brick.net> wrote:
> On Jul 9, 7:14�pm, Dan Abel <da...@sonic.net> wrote:
> > > inappropriate it is to proselytize to the neighbor kids, telling them
> > > not to leave when they want to leave crosses a whole different line
> > > with me.
> >
> > I'm tempted to say that either the children were wandering around
> > unsupervised, or they were �under the supervision of the neighbor. �
> > Perhaps it isn't that simple.
>
> Kids *should* wander unsupervised.
> Dan, my child is well cared for
Right. I've reread some posts. You are the parent, and you are there.
Although I can conceive of times when a neighbor is justified in not
allowing a kid to leave, this clearly isn't the case here. If the adult
lets the child choose whether or not to come there, barring something
exceptional, they shouldn't get the choice to decide whether the kid can
leave.
> Right now, I'm feeling very good about the parenting thing, with the
> exception of the above mentioned food pickinesses. The one veggie
> that he likes is broccoli. I hate broccoli. I hate the smell of it,
> but I prepare it with love for my spouse and child.
I'm still unhappy with food in my childhood. My mother died over 35
years ago, and my father is mentally incompetent (he is 93), so there's
no point in trying to talk to them.
Our kids ate whatever they wanted, with some restrictions.
--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
da...@sonic.net
Janet Wilder
> oh, Bryan, making sure the kid has some background in Christian
> religion is a good thing. that way he'll find all the jokes in Good
> Omens & you won't spend days explaining them (i just read Good Omens
> with my 8 year old & since he has so little religious background, it
> was kinda painful... but at least he's old enough now to understand
> telling people who are religious that "it's all mythology" is rude
> <g>)
When I was about 4 years old, I got lectured for telling the
neighborhood kids that Santa Claus was a myth. It seems that I made some
of them cry. My mother gave me my first lesson in religious tolerance
over that little episode.
--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.
Janet Wilder
I used to wear my Star of David all of the time. One day I was doing
laundry in a campground coin-op and a young man was doing his. He
noticed my star and asked me if I was Jewish. I told him I was and he
proceeded to inform me that I was going to Hell. I gave him my usual
born again response: "thank you so much for caring about me. I really
appreciate your interest but I don't believe in the Hell that you
believe in, so, I'm not really worried about it"
That usually works, but this guy was not playing with a full deck. (I
later learned that the campground was a jumping off place for
missionaries going into Mexico) He started ramping up on the Hell and
Jesus stuff and I had to stay with my laundry and couldn't leave.
I finally got him calmed down enough to tell him that in my tradition
*everyone* who is a good person and obeys 7 out of the 10 commandments
(exclude the two about G-d and the one about the Sabbath) has a share in
the world to come. That means, I told him, that my god was much more
compassionate and a lot less prejudiced than his god. That worked. He
turned red and left the laundry.
James Silverton
>> oh, Bryan, making sure the kid has some background in
>> Christian religion is a good thing. that way he'll find all
>> the jokes in Good Omens & you won't spend days explaining
>> them (i just read Good Omens with my 8 year old & since he
>> has so little religious background, it was kinda painful...
>> but at least he's old enough now to understand telling people
>> who are religious that "it's all mythology" is rude <g>)
> When I was about 4 years old, I got lectured for telling the
> neighborhood kids that Santa Claus was a myth. It seems that I
> made some of them cry. My mother gave me my first lesson in
> religious tolerance over that little episode.
Self-righteous little **** weren't you! However, it's not too unusual in
kids. Despite other little acquaintances like you, I think I believed in
Santa until I was about 6.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Janet Wilder
I once met a woman who was a born again. She told me that as a child she
had been raised as a Roman Catholic, but then she became a Christian.
Stupidly I said something like: "aren't Catholics Christians?" and she
told me that Catholics were definitely not Christians. I thought that
was a little strange.
Janet Wilder
> On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:33:05 -0600, Gloria P <gpue...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Mormons have something like "baptism in
>> absentia" where they use the names of dead non-Mormons and baptize or
>> enroll them into the Mormon faith so they will be "saved". When the
>> family of the deceased finds out, they are h#llish angry but they can't
>> really do anything about it.
>
> Why would they be mad? So what? AFAIC people can do whatever they
> want "in absentia" after I'm dead. Go ahead, save my soul... if I
> have one to save.
>
I agree. What's the difference? Now if the Mormons are sending a bill
tithing the dead person's estate that would be reason to piss off the
survivors. <g>
cybercat
"James Silverton" <not.jim....@verizon.not> wrote in message
news:qpL5m.1853$P5....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
cybercat
Exactly. My mother was a devout Christian, my father an agnostic raised
Baptist. When she did not drive early on, he took her to church along with
my sisters, who were little, and me, too, when I was a baby, even. When we
went to where he is from, we all attended the Baptist church once in a
while, if only to snigger at the old guys in the family "testifiying," about
how they used to be womanizers, drinkers, etc. (My dad leaned over and said,
"know why he's not anymore? BECAUSE HE CAN'T.) My mother never pushed her
religion on us. If we did not want to go to church we did not have to. She
raised us to respect others and their beliefs
She also raised us to form our own opinions about religion and everthing
else. It was like our special right and gift, sacred, even. Nobody could
ever, ever take away our right to make up our own minds. I had my first Holy
communion, but declined to be confirmed, and she did not even flinch. My dad
thought all we needed were manners and a good bullshit detector.
I respect all religions, and consider religion a private thing. I also
understand that "spreading the word" is a MUST in some of these religions
like fundamentalist Christian and Jehova's Witness, so I cut them some
slack.
If you raise your kids right, you need not worry. They can be exposed to
just about anything and hold their own.