Need freezer advice: Frost-free vs. non frost-free
Shipra Panda
Hi I need to buy an extra freezer, but my dilema is whether to
buy a frost-free or non frost-free freezer. I'm worried about
freezer burn, and which type of freezer will keep foods frozen
longer without freezer burn. The salesman told me that as long
as food is wrapped up well, frost-free is better because it
maintains a constant temperature. However if food is not wrapped
well, it will get freezer burn a lot faster in a frost-free freezer
because there is some air circulation to maintain the cold temp.
In a non frost-free freezer a constant temperature is not maintained
if ice accumulates on the cooling coils, therefore the food warms up
a bit. This isn't a problem if you defrost the freezer often enough,
but then again most people don't have too much time to defrost the
freezer. Ok, that was everything the salesman told me, the question
for you guys is, is it true, and which type of freezer do you recommend?
Also how often do you have to defrost a non frost-free freezer? And
does anyone have any idea how long foods will stay in a frost-free vs.
non frost-free freezer? If it makes any difference I'm probably going
to buy a 13.7 cubic feet freezer, and the main things I will store are
chicken, ground turkey, and vegetables.
All opinions will be greatly appreciated.
Shipra
spa...@ece.cmu.edu
idlewild
In article <1997Jan1...@accord.ece.cmu.edu>,
Shipra Panda <spa...@ece.cmu.edu> wrote:
>
>Hi I need to buy an extra freezer, but my dilema is whether to
>buy a frost-free or non frost-free freezer. I'm worried about
>freezer burn, and which type of freezer will keep foods frozen
>longer without freezer burn.
the weirdo tastes of freezer burn are usually due to things like lipid
oxidation (ie rancidity), which have more to do with the way the food is
packaged, rather than the freezer itself. if you are planning on storing
things for long term (ie more than a month), then i suggest you invest
some cash in a good quality vacuum packer.
long >as food is wrapped up well, frost-free is better because it
>maintains a constant temperature. However if food is not wrapped
>well, it will get freezer burn a lot faster in a frost-free freezer
>because there is some air circulation to maintain the cold temp.
>In a non frost-free freezer a constant temperature is not maintained
>if ice accumulates on the cooling coils, therefore the food warms up
>a bit. This isn't a problem if you defrost the freezer often enough,
>but then again most people don't have too much time to defrost the
>freezer.
you've got almost everything right, except for the most important - the
qualities you have attributed to frost-free are actually the ones for
frost-full, and vice versa.
in other words:
frost full: constant temperature, no fluctuation, will get lots of ice
buildup, will require defrosting
frost free: fluctuating temps several times a day to melt any frost that
may have formed, will not get frost buildup, therefore will not require
defrosting
Ok, that was everything the salesman told me, the question
>for you guys is, is it true, and which type of freezer do you recommend?
well, if you can put up with the inconvenience, i would recommend for
frost-full, esp. if you plan on storing things for a long time. ice cream
and other products will get very grainy during prolonged storage in a
frost-free freezer b/c the melting phase of the freezer causes the ice
crystals to grow and grow, the longer it is in storage. it's the same
reason that, if you have an automatic ice maker in your freezeer and don't
use a lot of ice, eventually you just have this one huge solid block of
ice.
>Also how often do you have to defrost a non frost-free freezer?
it depends on how often you open it. the more you open it, the more
frost builds up. frost builds up quicker in the summer, as well, b/c it
is very humid in the summer. my old unit recommended that once
the frost was 1/4 inch or greater, then it was time to defrost. 'course,
being a student, i had no time for such things and would let the ice
accumulate to about 3/4 of an inch before i would get around tot...
And
>does anyone have any idea how long foods will stay in a frost-free vs.
>non frost-free freezer? If it makes any difference I'm probably going
>to buy a 13.7 cubic feet freezer, and the main things I will store are
>chicken, ground turkey, and vegetables.
vegetables do /not/ freeze well. i repeat, they do /not/ freeze well.
unless you have access to flash-freezing (ie liquid nitrogen), then your
veggies will become mush. they become mush b/c the slow freezing (ie
tossing them straight into the freezer) gives a lot of time for the
ice/water equilibrium to be established and make for large ice crystals in
the veggies. this will disrupt the cell walls (tears them), and when you
defrost them, they no longer have any support to be rigid. if you were
going to puree them, i guess it's okay, but otherwise, i would suggest you
dry them instead.
-j.
--
Will cook for food.
Charles Demas
June (idlewild) posted a lot of good advice that I won't repeat.
I have a 21 cu. ft. upright non-frost-free freezer, and I live alone.
Get an upright, then stuff doesn't get lost, but you won't get
as much useful volume as a chest type. With the chest, type you
pile stuff on top of each other. With the upright, you have space
between the shelves. Essentially you don't pack an upright as tightly,
of at least I don't, perhaps because I don't have to.
Get the largest freezer you can afford/fit. You can stock up on
sale items when they are cheapest: butter ($.99), turkey, corned beef,
steak, chicken, day old bread/pastry (freezes great). Also, you can
cook larger quantities, and freeze one or more for another day.
The hassle for a double or triple recipe isn't much more.
I only have experience with non-frost-free, but there's no freezer burn
with it, whereas a frost-free will dehydrate the outer part of badly
wrapped or exposed food. A non-frost free will tend to collect frost
(from the air you let in opening the freezer) on the package/exposed
food. I would buy a non-frost-free again.
The only worry about buying/stocking a large freezer is the possibility
of long power outages (days). I live 2 blocks from the Town Hall in
Needham, just outside the small retail area. Power outages are not a
worry where I live.
I use tupperware, cottage cheese/margarine tubs, yogurt cups, and
zip lock freezer bags for storage; no freezer jars yet. I buy meat
in large packages, and sometimes buy several chickens. I can cut
up the stuff, then freeze individual pieces on trays (use waxed
paper or plastic wrap) for an hour or so, then throw the pieces
in a freezer bag or tupperware container. Maybe I should spray the
frozen pieces with a mist of water and freeze that on them before
bagging them to keep them more separable, or maybe flour them.
So much for my advice.
[posted and emailed]
Chuck Demas
Needham, Mass.
--
Eat Healthy | _ _ | Nothing would be done at all,
Stay Fit | @ @ | If a man waited to do it so well,
Die Anyway | v | That no one could find fault with it.
de...@tiac.net | \___/ | http://www.tiac.net/users/demas
Adrian Mariano
de...@tiac.net (Charles Demas) writes:
>I only have experience with non-frost-free, but there's no freezer burn
>with it, whereas a frost-free will dehydrate the outer part of badly
>wrapped or exposed food. A non-frost free will tend to collect frost
>(from the air you let in opening the freezer) on the package/exposed
>food. I would buy a non-frost-free again.
I have experience with the non frost free freezers and will be sure to
get frost free ones in the future.
I live in an apartment which comes with a refrigerator that has a
freezer in it which needs to be defrosted. The instructions say to
defrost when the ice is 1/4 inch thick. During the summer this would
be about every week. Of course, I tend to defrost once a month or so
after the ice is 1 inch thick. And defrosting is an immense nuisance.
People talk about how frost free freezers won't keep your stuff
uniformly cold. Well, let me tell you, having your stuff sit at 50 or
60 degrees for several hours while the freezer defrosts is a heck of a
lot more temperature variation than you'll see in a frost free. And
in this particular situation, water would get all over the inside of
the refrigerator on the rest of the food (which also has to be allowed
to warm up since the fridge and freezer are one unit). Water would
get all over the kitchen.
May & Val
I use pans of hot water the deforst my 22cf upright freezer. I can
defrost it in a very short period of time, about an hour from start to
finish, way before the food starts to defrost. With a small fridge
frezzer it shouldn't take very long. I just boil water in a large pan
and put in the shutoff freezer, close the door and the ice just falls
off. I also put my food in coolers, I have also put in boxes and cover
with blankets to keep in the cold. I have a frost free freezer in my
fridge and keep very little in it because the quality of the frozen food
leaves much to be desired.
May
Adrian Mariano
May & Val <veck...@kandinsky.hf.intel.com> writes:
>Adrian Mariano wrote:
>>
>
>> I live in an apartment which comes with a refrigerator that has a
>> freezer in it which needs to be defrosted. The instructions say to
>> defrost when the ice is 1/4 inch thick. During the summer this would
>> be about every week. Of course, I tend to defrost once a month or so
>> after the ice is 1 inch thick. And defrosting is an immense nuisance.
>> People talk about how frost free freezers won't keep your stuff
>> uniformly cold. Well, let me tell you, having your stuff sit at 50 or
>> 60 degrees for several hours while the freezer defrosts is a heck of a
>> lot more temperature variation than you'll see in a frost free. And
>> in this particular situation, water would get all over the inside of
>> the refrigerator on the rest of the food (which also has to be allowed
>> to warm up since the fridge and freezer are one unit). Water would
>> get all over the kitchen.
>
>I use pans of hot water the deforst my 22cf upright freezer. I can
>defrost it in a very short period of time, about an hour from start to
>finish, way before the food starts to defrost. With a small fridge
>frezzer it shouldn't take very long. I just boil water in a large pan
>and put in the shutoff freezer, close the door and the ice just falls
>off. I also put my food in coolers, I have also put in boxes and cover
>with blankets to keep in the cold. I have a frost free freezer in my
>fridge and keep very little in it because the quality of the frozen food
>leaves much to be desired.
Well, I use pans of hot water to defrost as well. It takes something
like 4 or 5 hours. Usually the tray for catching the water overflows.
(Presumably it wouldn't do this if I defrosted every week as required
by the instructions on the freezer.) I always have to spend time
preparing all the food in the refrigerator to get drenched. And at
the end I have to clean all the water out of the bottom of the fridge
which runs down the back wall and accumulates under the drawer. The
freezer is one (yes just one) cubic foot. There is a gap of about an
inch between the freezer and the top of the refrigerator which has
cooling coils in it that is always totally packed with ice. This is
the section that takes hours to melt. (In fact, after 4-5 hours I
usually quit defrosting even though there is some ice still present in
the back.)
Tonight I defrosted my five cubic foot upright freezer, which took 3
or 4 hours (though admittedly I didn't try particularly hard to hasten
things). I took advantage of the weather and stored my frozen foods
outside. This one was easier to deal with than the 1 cubic foot.
There is a five foot wet spot on the carpet, though.
Curly Sue
adr...@cam.cornell.edu (Adrian Mariano) wrote:
>I have experience with the non frost free freezers and will be sure to
>get frost free ones in the future.
Amen! I'm with you...
>I live in an apartment which comes with a refrigerator that has a
>freezer in it which needs to be defrosted. The instructions say to
>defrost when the ice is 1/4 inch thick. During the summer this would
>be about every week.
> Of course, I tend to defrost once a month or so
>after the ice is 1 inch thick. And defrosting is an immense nuisance.
>People talk about how frost free freezers won't keep your stuff
>uniformly cold. Well, let me tell you, having your stuff sit at 50 or
>60 degrees for several hours while the freezer defrosts is a heck of a
And the answer to freezer-burn with the frost-free freezers is to wrap
the packages well. I would surely make that sacrifice in order to not
have to defrost a freezer again!
Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
sue at interport net
idlewild
In article <32E15F...@kandinsky.hf.intel.com>,
May & Val <veck...@kandinsky.hf.intel.com> wrote:
>I use pans of hot water the deforst my 22cf upright freezer. I can
>defrost it in a very short period of time, about an hour from start to
>finish, way before the food starts to defrost. With a small fridge
>frezzer it shouldn't take very long
[snip]
>
>Adrian Mariano wrote:
>
>> I live in an apartment which comes with a refrigerator that has a
>> freezer in it which needs to be defrosted. The instructions say to
>> defrost when the ice is 1/4 inch thick. During the summer this would
>> be about every week. Of course, I tend to defrost once a month or so
>> after the ice is 1 inch thick. And defrosting is an immense nuisance.
>> People talk about how frost free freezers won't keep your stuff
>> uniformly cold. Well, let me tell you, having your stuff sit at 50 or
>> 60 degrees for several hours while the freezer defrosts is a heck of a
>> lot more temperature variation than you'll see in a frost free.
i was in a situation just like adrian's - my freezer would require
defrosting every week if i did it when it was 1/4 in thick. like may, i
used the boilng pans of water trick - but even then, it is a lot more
difficult to melt off /ice/ than it is /frost/. it would typically take
me 2 hours to melt off a freezer that was ! two feet long, one and some
feet high, and about 1 1/2 ft deep, b/c there was an inch of ice on all
five inner surfaces and all five outer surfaces.
Don Wiss
On 18 Jan 1997 19:19:10 GMT, adr...@cam.cornell.edu (Adrian Mariano) wrote:
>I live in an apartment which comes with a refrigerator that has a
>freezer in it which needs to be defrosted.
You say the freezer is in it. Do you mean there is just one door, and then
inside a second door to the freezer? If so, then no wonder you have to
defrost it every week. How often to defrost depends on how often the door
is opened. If one is using the second freezer as an auxiliary freezer than
once a year should be enough.
My mother has an upright freezer and a refrigerator without a freezer. So
it is her only freezer. She defrosts once a year.
When I buy a second freezer it will be frost-full, not frost-free.
Don.
Edward Rice
> I use pans of hot water the deforst my 22cf upright freezer. I can
> defrost it in a very short period of time, about an hour from start to
> finish, way before the food starts to defrost. With a small fridge
> frezzer it shouldn't take very long. I just boil water in a large pan
> and put in the shutoff freezer, close the door and the ice just falls
> off. I also put my food in coolers, I have also put in boxes and cover
> with blankets to keep in the cold. I have a frost free freezer in my
> fridge and keep very little in it because the quality of the frozen food
> leaves much to be desired.
I've used the "pans of hot water" approach. An easier way is simply a fan
blowing room-temperature air into the unit. (Obviously, if you have to
open the refrigerator door to get to the freezer compartment, this has some
problems.) Plenty of room air will defrost a freezer of any size very
nicely, the air supply is essentially unlimited, and there's absolutely no
way you can warp any of the metal or plastic bits.
HIDDA
Frost-free uprights are great for convenience, however, unless you can
drop the temperature to at least 5 below zero, the fluctuations in
temperature works against long term storage. The biggest disadvantages
are higher initial cost and higher operating cost. Uprights, in
general, must be kept filled. Otherwise, everytime you open it up,
you'll have a big exchange of cold and warm air, althought I've recently
read that this does not affect the electric bill all that much. Who's
to say? As is the case with most home frost-free units, the condenser
is underneath the unit and needs frequent cleaning to help with
efficiency. Needs more maintenance in dusty areas. Condensate from
frost-free cycles may cause a problem with increased humidity, however
the heat from the compressor/condenser may compensate for this. Worn
door gaskets means big increase in electric bills.
Non Frost-free uprights are okay, but require defrosting. It will
generally maintain a more even temperature than the frost-free will.
Usually has rear mounted condenser that needs frequent cleaning and
clearance. Gasket maintenance is also important.
Now, we come to the cheapest to buy and operate. The old fashioned
chest freezer. Because the lid is on the top, there is little exchange
of cold and warm air whenever you open it. Temperature control
generally better too. Disadvantages? Takes up more floor space. You
have to dig for things buried in the bottom. Requires defrosting,
though not as often as the upright version. Cheaper ones have preset
thermostats. Must keep the sides clear since its condenser is designed
to radiate the waste heat out through the steel walls of the cabinet.
However, it does okay in dusty environments. You can get away with
replacing worn gaskets for a while. There's usually enough flex in the
lid to maintain a decent seal.
I had a frost free upright. It broke down and I dumped it. My electric
bill dropped significantly. I'm now looking for a chest freezer that
can maintain temperatures at least 5 below zero.
Nancy Dooley
On Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:06:56 EST, spa...@ece.cmu.edu (Shipra Panda)
wrote:
>
>Hi I need to buy an extra freezer, but my dilema is whether to
>buy a frost-free or non frost-free freezer. I'm worried about
If you said whether you are buying an upright or a chest-type, I
missed it.
If you're buying an upright, get the frost-free. They allow more warm
air to enter when the door opens, than the chest type. The extra
operating cost is worth it.
If you're buying a chest-type, get a regular kind that has to be
defrosted. If you keep it fairly full, you will need to defrost it
less. If you try to limit the number of times you open the door (for
example, get 2 or 3 meals' worth of stuff out of it at one time, and
move it to your refrigerator freezer), you won't need to defrost it
more than once a year or so, unless you life in a hot, humid climate.
This is just my opinion, based on experience. Frost-free anything is
very expensive to run, electricity-wise, and in the chest-type, not
worth it.
Nancy.
"Get your facts first, and then you can
distort 'em as much as you please." (Samuel Clemens)