New Costco card - RFID!!!

[Taxed and Spent]

The new COSTCO VISA card I received is RFID enabled! I called CITI and
asked for a non-RFID card, and they said they don't provide them. So, I
will not carry or use this card. Will you?

I have better rewards cards anyway.

[Does it really matter?]

What's the objection to RFID?

[Taxed and Spent]

more susceptible to hacking.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Are you sure it is RFID? They discontinued them in favor of the new,
safer, chip. EMV

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/emv-faq-chip-cards-answers-1264.php

[Ed Pawlowski]

The older RFID cards were able to be cloned. AFAIK, they are long gone
and now the EMV chip is used.

The problem now is people don't keep up with the news and still think it
is the same.

[Taxed and Spent]

It is both. A move to higher security, and a move to lower security at
the same time. What chumps!

[Taxed and Spent]

I am not one of those. On the contrary, I am one of the guys who told
our local news station they were wrong in their report where they
mistook the contact points as indication of an RFID chip and went on and
on about how the new cards were insecure.

My new Costco VISA card is EMV and also RFID. It has the RFID symbol,
and a call to CITI confirmed it.

[Nancy Young]

On 6/5/2016 2:14 PM, Taxed and Spent wrote:

> The new COSTCO VISA card I received is RFID enabled! I called CITI and
> asked for a non-RFID card, and they said they don't provide them. So, I
> will not carry or use this card. Will you?

Why not? All of my cards have a chip and it's been that way
for some time.

Maybe you could stick foil in your wallet for protection if you're
worried.

nancy

[John Kuthe]

I only have one card I use, my Discover card. And I am a credit "deadbeat" because I pay off my balance every month, thus never incur any interest charges!!

John Kuthe...

[notbob]

On 2016-06-05, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

> The problem.....

.....is, they are tracking cards, pure and simple, and they are a PIA!

I swear, it's getting so I almost gotta do more on my side of the
check-out than the clerk. I keep telling 'em, add one more thing I
gotta do and I'm submitting a time card!! In the meantime, it's
getting so a check writer is quicker than a CC user. 8|

nb

[Taxed and Spent]

There is a difference between a contact chip and a contactless RFID chip.

[dsi1]

It's fairly obvious that contactless payments are the future. The US consumer has resisted this new technology but I don't carry much money around with me and I'd sure like to get rid of my cards. Getting rid of my wallet and car keys would be just grand too! Not to worry - it's gonna happen!

[Taxed and Spent]

Getting rid of your cards for a payment system using an intelligent
device such as a smartphone is something quite different than carrying
around a bunch of hackable RFID credit cards.

I have not seen resistance to the former, it is just developing and
seems to be taking off.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 6/5/2016 2:50 PM, Taxed and Spent wrote:

>> The older RFID cards were able to be cloned. AFAIK, they are long gone
>> and now the EMV chip is used.
>>
>> The problem now is people don't keep up with the news and still think it
>> is the same.
>
> I am not one of those. On the contrary, I am one of the guys who told
> our local news station they were wrong in their report where they
> mistook the contact points as indication of an RFID chip and went on and
> on about how the new cards were insecure.

Good for you.

>
> My new Costco VISA card is EMV and also RFID. It has the RFID symbol,
> and a call to CITI confirmed it.

That is dumb.

[Jeßus]

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Getting rid of my wallet and car keys would be just grand too! Not to worry - it's gonna happen!

http://tinyurl.com/halhtcp

[Ophelia]

"Taxed and Spent" <nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote in message
news:nj22bt$95j$1...@dont-email.me...

I don't want contactless anything! I am more than happy to insert my card
and punch in my pin number!!!

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Cheri]

"Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:drjhj4...@mid.individual.net...

I'm with you there.

Cheri

[Ophelia]

"Jeßus" <j@j.j> wrote in message
news:la39lbl5b24t6sups...@j.net...

lol



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[dsi1]

Adoption has been slower than expected for Apple Pay and Google Wallet. I have cards stored in my phone but have not used it yet. There's few terminals available I always forget to use them. My guess is that there's a critical mass of terminals that has to be reached and then awareness and usage will explode.

[dsi1]

On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 10:41:07 AM UTC-10, Jeßus wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi1>

> wrote:
>
> >Getting rid of my wallet and car keys would be just grand too! Not to worry - it's gonna happen!
>
> http://tinyurl.com/halhtcp

Is that Tom Green? I love that guy!

[Jeßus]

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 14:01:39 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

No, doesn't look like Tom to me. I like some of Tom Green's work too.
I used to cringe at the things he did to his poor parents though.

[dsi1]

I suppose it's more secure but those chip and PIN cards take about 10 seconds more time per transaction. That's a real drag. Hoo boy, those poor cashiers probably hate those cards!

[Taxed and Spent]

There are supposedly some improvements in the works. Like they had to
wait to see millions of slow transactions to realize millions of
transactions would be slow.

[dsi1]

It's only a few seconds but we're not used to things moving slower - only faster! OTOH, tens of millions of seconds sure do add up. :)

[dsi1]

On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 11:08:53 AM UTC-10, Jeßus wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 14:01:39 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi1>

> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 10:41:07 AM UTC-10, Jeßus wrote:
> >> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi1>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Getting rid of my wallet and car keys would be just grand too! Not to worry - it's gonna happen!
> >>
> >> http://tinyurl.com/halhtcp
> >
> >Is that Tom Green? I love that guy!
>
> No, doesn't look like Tom to me. I like some of Tom Green's work too.
> I used to cringe at the things he did to his poor parents though.

Well, lets hope they were really bad parents! :)

[Jeßus]

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 14:30:53 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@yahoo.com>

wrote:

>On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 11:08:53 AM UTC-10, Jeßus wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 14:01:39 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi1>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 10:41:07 AM UTC-10, Jeßus wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi1>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Getting rid of my wallet and car keys would be just grand too! Not to worry - it's gonna happen!
>> >>
>> >> http://tinyurl.com/halhtcp
>> >
>> >Is that Tom Green? I love that guy!
>>
>> No, doesn't look like Tom to me. I like some of Tom Green's work too.
>> I used to cringe at the things he did to his poor parents though.
>
>Well, lets hope they were really bad parents! :)

They seemed really nice to me. I don't have the bandwidth to search
youtube, but look for what he did to his mother's car in the dead of
night... 'tom green slutmobile' should bring it up. Or look for when
he painted his parent's house plaid... or when he filled it with farm
animals.

[sf]

If you want to do contactless pay, pay by phone. Both Apple and
Samsung have the technology.

--

sf

[sf]

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

I'm excited about contactless pay too. DD has a car where she never
needs to take her keys out of her purse, but the fob does need to be
with her.

--

sf

[sf]

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 14:00:34 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@yahoo.com>

You probably have more places where you can use contactless pay than
you think. My main (large chain) grocery store has the new terminal
and won't do chip cards, but it will do contactless pay. You won't
know unless you ask and I asked. My bet is that when you see the new
terminal for chipped cards it also has the contactless pay technology.

--

sf

[sf]

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 11:14:44 -0700, Taxed and Spent
<nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote:

> The new COSTCO VISA card I received is RFID enabled! I called CITI and
> asked for a non-RFID card, and they said they don't provide them. So, I
> will not carry or use this card. Will you?
>

Yes.

> I have better rewards cards anyway.

You won't be able to use your Costco card at Costco until the 20th, so
you have nothing to complain about until then. No one is stopping you
from using other cards elsewhere. Go for it.

We happen to like having a chipped card, and don't understand anyone
with a mindset like yours. Some stores haven't upgraded their
systems, others have the terminal but haven't activated the system and
I know they won't go any further than that (ever). Doesn't matter to
me if they don't do the chip, I just swipe it. I still get the same
benefits, other than better security. I think most of those terminals
are contactless pay too, so I'll use that eventually. Best of all, I
can use it globally and get my cash back on global purchases too.



--

sf

[Taxed and Spent]

On 6/5/2016 4:01 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 11:14:44 -0700, Taxed and Spent
> <nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote:
>
>> The new COSTCO VISA card I received is RFID enabled! I called CITI and
>> asked for a non-RFID card, and they said they don't provide them. So, I
>> will not carry or use this card. Will you?
>>
> Yes.
>
>> I have better rewards cards anyway.
>
> You won't be able to use your Costco card at Costco until the 20th, so
> you have nothing to complain about until then. No one is stopping you
> from using other cards elsewhere. Go for it.

This is total drivel.

>
> We happen to like having a chipped card, and don't understand anyone
> with a mindset like yours.

I don't want somebody scanning my butt and cloning my credit card. What
is there to understand?

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 2:04:02 PM UTC-5, John Kuthe wrote:
>
> I only have one card I use, my Discover card. And I am a credit "deadbeat" because I pay off my balance every month, thus never incur any interest charges!!
>
> John Kuthe...
>
>

Same here, but I have two cards.

[col...@gmail.com]

I once had an rfid card but riteaid was the only place I shopped at where I could use it that way, it was replaced with an emv card.

[Nancy2]

I have a set of four non-hackable envelope holders designed for credit cards.
They make the cards enclosed unreadable. They were pretty cheap...maybe
$10 for the four, and each has a different design.

N.

[Taxed and Spent]

I just don't carry RFID cards. Zero added thickness.

[barbie gee]

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016, Taxed and Spent wrote:

> The new COSTCO VISA card I received is RFID enabled! I called CITI and asked
> for a non-RFID card, and they said they don't provide them. So, I will not
> carry or use this card. Will you?
>

> I have better rewards cards anyway.
>

Does it say on the letter that comes with it, or on the card itself that
it is "RFID" enabled?
How do you know that it is?

And, what part of that bothers you?
RFID only works with an appropriate scanner, it's not sending out signals.
More and more credit cards will have RFID capabilities, and if you're that
paranoid about it, you should get an RFID blocking wallet.

[Taxed and Spent]

It has the RFID logo, and as I posted previously, a call to CITI
confirmed it. No, I am not concerned that I will have to wear a tin
foil hat. I don't want a scammer scanner cloning my card. I think
fewer and fewer cards have RFID as compared with a few years back when
the RFID technology was first being touted, for this very reason.

[sf]

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 16:33:52 -0700, Taxed and Spent

<nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote:

> On 6/5/2016 4:01 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 11:14:44 -0700, Taxed and Spent
> > <nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The new COSTCO VISA card I received is RFID enabled! I called CITI and
> >> asked for a non-RFID card, and they said they don't provide them. So, I
> >> will not carry or use this card. Will you?
> >>
> > Yes.
> >
> >> I have better rewards cards anyway.
> >
> > You won't be able to use your Costco card at Costco until the 20th, so
> > you have nothing to complain about until then. No one is stopping you
> > from using other cards elsewhere. Go for it.
>
>
> This is total drivel.
>

Drivel? You obviously have no concept of what that word means. I
stated a fact.

> >
> > We happen to like having a chipped card, and don't understand anyone
> > with a mindset like yours.
>
> I don't want somebody scanning my butt and cloning my credit card. What
> is there to understand?

I understand that your understanding of the chip is considerably
behind the times. Wear your tin foil hat proudly, fool.

--

sf

[dsi1]

On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 12:40:00 PM UTC-10, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 14:00:34 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi1>

I've been on the lookout for them in my little town but the only one I've seen is the Walgren's down the street. Most of the stores don't even have the chip and PIN terminals either. That's pretty sad if you ask me. OROH, I've had a C&P reader for over 6 months. Unfortunately, I still haven't taken it out of the box yet. The way I see it, I make out better by taking only cash or checks. Hee hee.

I have not checked but I'll bet the Starbuck's down the street has got the contactless terminals. This new-fangled technology has "Starbuck's cool" written all over it!

[Boron Elgar]

According to my discussion with Visa, the card is *not* RFID.

And their web site says their credit cards are EMV, *not* RFID.

But hey, carry on.

OH, listen - if you are really concerned, just wrap your tinfoil hat
around the card.


**************************************************
Q: What is a chip-based card?

A: A Chip Card contains an embedded microchip that encrypts cardmember
information into a unique code that significantly increases
transaction and account data security when used at a chip-enabled
terminal, and makes card cloning and fraud more difficult.

Q: Chip Card, EMV card, smart Chip card...what's the difference?

A: These are all just different terms for the same technology. The
technology used in these credit cards is commonly known as being
EMV-enabled, which stands for Europay, MasterCard and Visa, which
uphold the chip technology. These cards are a global standard for
processing credit and debit card payments. Various credit card
companies may refer to Chip Cards slightly differently, but they all
function to help keep your card more secure.

Q: Is this the same technology that's featured on a PayPassTM Card?
Can I use my Chip Card to Tap and GoTM?

A: No. MasterCard® PayPassTM uses a different technology called RFID
(radio frequency identification), which uses near-field communications
to transmit your transaction - so you can pay by tap and go. Your Chip
Card will need to be read by a device before you sign for your
purchase. You can continue to swipe your card when making domestic
purchases in the U.S. However, if your credit card already has PayPass
functionality, you can still use it to tap and go.

Security Benefits

[Taxed and Spent]

On 6/6/2016 12:08 AM, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 16:33:52 -0700, Taxed and Spent
> <nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote:
>
>> On 6/5/2016 4:01 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 11:14:44 -0700, Taxed and Spent
>>> <nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The new COSTCO VISA card I received is RFID enabled! I called CITI and
>>>> asked for a non-RFID card, and they said they don't provide them. So, I
>>>> will not carry or use this card. Will you?
>>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> I have better rewards cards anyway.
>>>
>>> You won't be able to use your Costco card at Costco until the 20th, so
>>> you have nothing to complain about until then. No one is stopping you
>>> from using other cards elsewhere. Go for it.
>>
>>
>> This is total drivel.
>>
> Drivel? You obviously have no concept of what that word means. I
> stated a fact.

a fact that is irrelevant and off point.

>>>
>>> We happen to like having a chipped card, and don't understand anyone
>>> with a mindset like yours.
>>
>> I don't want somebody scanning my butt and cloning my credit card. What
>> is there to understand?
>
> I understand that your understanding of the chip is considerably
> behind the times. Wear your tin foil hat proudly, fool.
>

Are you saying RFID chipped cards cannot be scanned by a scammer? Support?

[Taxed and Spent]

I understand that EMV is different than RFID. I have a number of EMV
cards that do not also have RFID. However, my new Costco EMV VISA card
DOES have RFID. It shows the RFID logo such as this:

http://www.ocr.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/RFID-Logo.jpg

My call to CITI confirmed that the Costco card has RFID.

Even what you quote says it can have both: "Your Chip

[Nancy Young]

On 6/6/2016 7:26 AM, Boron Elgar wrote:

Thanks for this!

[sf]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 04:29:39 -0700, Taxed and Spent

<nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote:

> On 6/6/2016 12:08 AM, sf wrote:
> > On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 16:33:52 -0700, Taxed and Spent
> > <nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/5/2016 4:01 PM, sf wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 11:14:44 -0700, Taxed and Spent
> >>> <nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The new COSTCO VISA card I received is RFID enabled! I called CITI and
> >>>> asked for a non-RFID card, and they said they don't provide them. So, I
> >>>> will not carry or use this card. Will you?
> >>>>
> >>> Yes.
> >>>
> >>>> I have better rewards cards anyway.
> >>>
> >>> You won't be able to use your Costco card at Costco until the 20th, so
> >>> you have nothing to complain about until then. No one is stopping you
> >>> from using other cards elsewhere. Go for it.
> >>
> >>
> >> This is total drivel.
> >>
> > Drivel? You obviously have no concept of what that word means. I
> > stated a fact.
>
> a fact that is irrelevant and off point.
>

It is a fact that addressed your situation directly and to the point.

> >>>
> >>> We happen to like having a chipped card, and don't understand anyone
> >>> with a mindset like yours.
> >>
> >> I don't want somebody scanning my butt and cloning my credit card. What
> >> is there to understand?
> >
> > I understand that your understanding of the chip is considerably
> > behind the times. Wear your tin foil hat proudly, fool.
> >
>
> Are you saying RFID chipped cards cannot be scanned by a scammer? Support?

So, now you've shifted your focus from the new Costco card to old RFID
technology? Why should I care one way or the other about it? The
chip card I use for everyday transactions isn't a contactless card and
Costco's new card is EMV technology. You started this by complaining
about your new Costco card, which is not RFID, and is something you
won't be using until the end of this month. A simple Google query
gives you plenty of information about the card. If you don't like EMV
technology either, then use your card to buy Costco gift cards online,
use those to pay, and leave your card at home.
https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/creditcards/citi.action?ID=citi-costco-credit-card-conversion


--

sf

[Taxed and Spent]

As I have repeatedly said, my new Costco card is EMV AND RFID. AND
RFID. AND RFID.

[sf]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 07:55:54 -0700, Taxed and Spent

I don't think you know what you're talking about and I'm not dragging
mine out to refute your points. Buy Costco gift cards online and be
done with it.

--

sf

[Taxed and Spent]

"dragging" yours out? I guess you realize I am correct. Actually, our
cards could be different in this respect.

[sf]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 08:28:15 -0700, Taxed and Spent

Yes, it's put away. I didn't apply for it, they sent it to me, and
it's no good at Costco until the 20th; so I'm using the AmEx until
then.

> I guess you realize I am correct. Actually, our
> cards could be different in this respect.

You didn't read the link I provided about the new Costco card? It's
EMV technology, not RFID. There is no "both" option.

"Every time an EMV card is used for payment, the card chip creates a
unique transaction code that cannot be used again."

Read more:
http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/emv-faq-chip-cards-answers-1264.php#ixzz4AosHhhXR


--

sf

[Ophelia]

"dsi1" <dsi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e0a6f59b-eb44-4a98...@googlegroups.com...

> On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 10:49:45 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:

>> "Taxed and Spent" <nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:nj22bt$95j$1...@dont-email.me...

>> > On 6/5/2016 1:25 PM, dsi1 wrote:

>> >> On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 8:14:44 AM UTC-10, Taxed and Spent wrote:
>> >>> The new COSTCO VISA card I received is RFID enabled! I called CITI
>> >>> and
>> >>> asked for a non-RFID card, and they said they don't provide them.
>> >>> So, I
>> >>> will not carry or use this card. Will you?
>> >>>

>> >>> I have better rewards cards anyway.
>> >>

>> >> It's fairly obvious that contactless payments are the future. The US
>> >> consumer has resisted this new technology but I don't carry much money
>> >> around with me and I'd sure like to get rid of my cards. Getting rid
>> >> of
>> >> my wallet and car keys would be just grand too! Not to worry - it's
>> >> gonna
>> >> happen!
>> >>
>> >
>> > Getting rid of your cards for a payment system using an intelligent
>> > device
>> > such as a smartphone is something quite different than carrying around
>> > a
>> > bunch of hackable RFID credit cards.
>> >
>> > I have not seen resistance to the former, it is just developing and
>> > seems
>> > to be taking off.
>>

>> I don't want contactless anything! I am more than happy to insert my
>> card
>> and punch in my pin number!!!
>>
>> --
>> http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
>
> I suppose it's more secure but those chip and PIN cards take about 10
> seconds more time per transaction. That's a real drag. Hoo boy, those poor
> cashiers probably hate those cards!

Jings! A whole 10 seconds ... <g>



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Ophelia]

"Taxed and Spent" <nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote in message
news:nj2csr$edi$1...@dont-email.me...

I have to say, I agree!


>

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Ophelia]

"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:1da9lbhpg2o309mrj...@4ax.com...

All those I have seen here, we have the choice.


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Cheri]

"Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:drlpjq...@mid.individual.net...

>
>
> "dsi1" <dsi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

>> I suppose it's more secure but those chip and PIN cards take about 10
>> seconds more time per transaction. That's a real drag. Hoo boy, those
>> poor cashiers probably hate those cards!
>
> Jings! A whole 10 seconds ... <g>

LOL, takes more time to complain about them at the stores. ;-)

[sf]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 18:22:53 +0100, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

He can't get it through his thick skull that EMV isn't RFID.

--

sf

[Taxed and Spent]

Read more yourself, from the article you quoted:

3. Is card dipping the only option?

Not necessarily. EMV cards can also support contactless card reading,
also known as near field communication.

Instead of dipping or swiping, NFC-equipped cards are tapped against a
terminal scanner that can pick up the card data from the embedded
computer chip.

"Contactless transactions are more consumer-friendly because you just
have to tap," said Martin Ferenczi, president of Oberthur Technologies,
the leading global EMV product and service provider. "Around the world,
there is a move to make EMV cards dual-interface, which means contact
and contactless. However, in the U.S., most financial instructions are
issuing contact cards."

--------------

It is not at all clear that the contactless transactions will use the
same robust techniques as the contact transactions, or what would be the
point in just "tapping"? In Europe, low Euro transactions can be
"tapped" but higher Euro transactions must be contact transactions, so
it seems the contactless transactions are not as secure, but faster.

[Taxed and Spent]

You are the one with the thick skull. Read your own damn article.

[col...@gmail.com]

I read that soon emv cards will work much faster.

[sf]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:25:38 -0700, Taxed and Spent

Why do you use ANY credit cards when they are so easily cloned? The
swipe and sig type is easiest of all.

--

sf

[sf]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:26:17 -0700, Taxed and Spent

Do you live in constant fear?

--

sf

[Taxed and Spent]

Is that your admission?

[sf]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:43:11 -0700, Taxed and Spent

I am wondering why you aren't living in a cave. Use cash. Oh, wait.
You can be mugged. Sorry, Charlie. You're out of luck.

--

sf

[sf]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:35:47 -0700 (PDT), col...@gmail.com wrote:

> I read that soon emv cards will work much faster.

I can hardly wait for touch & go.

--

sf

[Ophelia]

"Cheri" <che...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:nj4cu...@news6.newsguy.com...

<g>

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Taxed and Spent]

In other words, yes.

[sf]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 12:01:25 -0700, Taxed and Spent

In other words, I'm going to use mine. You have not given a cogent
argument against it other than what boils down to you're afraid of new
technology.

--

sf

[Taxed and Spent]

Here is how this thread might have gone:

O.P.:

The new COSTCO VISA card I received is RFID enabled! I called CITI and
asked for a non-RFID card, and they said they don't provide them. So, I
will not carry or use this card. Will you?

I have better rewards cards anyway.

An intelligent reply:

That is interesting. I don't have a problem with RFID cards, as I think
the benefit to my way of using such cards outweighs the security issue.

[dsi1]

That's like saying being overcharged a penny or two each time you make a
purchase is chump change. Multiply that by millions of transactions and
you're talking serious money.

I can afford to spend a few seconds or money when I purchase items. My
point was the cashiers have to spend/wait/kill a whole shitload more
time than I. I'm also guessing that for big stores, adding 10 seconds
per transaction is not an easy pill to swallow.

[Ophelia]

"dsi1" <ds...@fishing.net> wrote in message
news:nj4jo2$luc$1...@dont-email.me...

I think that those cashiers might appreciate 10 seconds to take a breather
and sit back:) I would if I were ever in their shoes:)) Ours even have a
wee chat and a joke as we go through;)



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[sf]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 21:37:07 +0100, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I think that those cashiers might appreciate 10 seconds to take a breather
> and sit back:) I would if I were ever in their shoes:)) Ours even have a
> wee chat and a joke as we go through;)

That's what I always think. I know they are grateful to slow down
when they send a bagger to get an item I couldn't find.

--

sf

[dsi1]

You could be right about that. It depends on the traffic. The popular
stores on this island tend to be kind of a rat race. Mostly, it's the
cashier that apologizes for the slow response of the terminals. That
must get kind of tiresome after 8 hours or so.

I was on Kauai recently and things there are moving at a lot slower
pace. Everyplace we ate, we got to chat with the folks we sat next to.
People was interested in talking to other people. It's freaking great!!!
I suspect that's the way it is in your little town. I wish our town was
like that but it's not. That's the breaks.

[Boron Elgar]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:35:21 -0400, Nancy Young
<rjynlyo...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On 6/6/2016 7:26 AM, Boron Elgar wrote:
>
>Thanks for this!

Happy to help.
>
>
>> **************************************************
>> Q: What is a chip-based card?
>>
>> A: A Chip Card contains an embedded microchip that encrypts cardmember
>> information into a unique code that significantly increases
>> transaction and account data security when used at a chip-enabled
>> terminal, and makes card cloning and fraud more difficult.
>>
>> Q: Chip Card, EMV card, smart Chip card...what's the difference?
>>
>> A: These are all just different terms for the same technology. The
>> technology used in these credit cards is commonly known as being
>> EMV-enabled, which stands for Europay, MasterCard and Visa, which
>> uphold the chip technology. These cards are a global standard for
>> processing credit and debit card payments. Various credit card
>> companies may refer to Chip Cards slightly differently, but they all
>> function to help keep your card more secure.
>>
>> Q: Is this the same technology that's featured on a PayPassTM Card?
>> Can I use my Chip Card to Tap and GoTM?
>>
>> A: No. MasterCard® PayPassTM uses a different technology called RFID
>> (radio frequency identification), which uses near-field communications
>> to transmit your transaction - so you can pay by tap and go. Your Chip
>> Card will need to be read by a device before you sign for your
>> purchase. You can continue to swipe your card when making domestic
>> purchases in the U.S. However, if your credit card already has PayPass
>> functionality, you can still use it to tap and go.
>>
>> Security Benefits
>>

[Taxed and Spent]

On 6/6/2016 7:33 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 04:57:11 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote:
>
>> On 6/6/2016 4:26 AM, Boron Elgar wrote:
>>> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 19:59:02 -0700, Taxed and Spent
>>> <nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/5/2016 7:51 PM, Nancy2 wrote:
>>>>> I have a set of four non-hackable envelope holders designed for credit cards.
>>>>> They make the cards enclosed unreadable. They were pretty cheap...maybe
>>>>> $10 for the four, and each has a different design.
>>>>>
>>>>> N.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I just don't carry RFID cards. Zero added thickness.
>>>
>>>
>>> According to my discussion with Visa, the card is *not* RFID.
>>>
>>> And their web site says their credit cards are EMV, *not* RFID.
>>>
>>> But hey, carry on.
>>>
>>> OH, listen - if you are really concerned, just wrap your tinfoil hat
>>> around the card.

>> I understand that EMV is different than RFID. I have a number of EMV
>> cards that do not also have RFID. However, my new Costco EMV VISA card
>> DOES have RFID. It shows the RFID logo such as this:
>>
>> http://www.ocr.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/RFID-Logo.jpg
>>
>> My call to CITI confirmed that the Costco card has RFID.
>>
>> Even what you quote says it can have both: "Your Chip

>> Card will need to be read by a device before you sign for your
>> purchase. You can continue to swipe your card when making domestic
>> purchases in the U.S. However, if your credit card already has PayPass
>> functionality, you can still use it to tap and go."
>

> It sure seems odd that Costco would sponsor a card with RFID when they
> don't even have NFC readers in their clubs. Who spends less than $25
> at Costco anyway?
>
> I don't have a Costco credit card but my brother says his new card has
> no such logo or any other indication that it has an RFID tag. And
> there nothing on the Internet that says their new cards have RFID tags
> (except for this thread).
>
> -sw
>


look here

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Costco-Anywhere-Visa-Card/td-p/4512044/page/15

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 6/6/2016 7:57 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:

> I understand that EMV is different than RFID. I have a number of EMV
> cards that do not also have RFID. However, my new Costco EMV VISA card
> DOES have RFID. It shows the RFID logo such as this:
>
> http://www.ocr.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/RFID-Logo.jpg
>
> My call to CITI confirmed that the Costco card has RFID.
>
> Even what you quote says it can have both: "Your Chip
> Card will need to be read by a device before you sign for your
> purchase. You can continue to swipe your card when making domestic
> purchases in the U.S. However, if your credit card already has PayPass
> functionality, you can still use it to tap and go."
>
>

Certainly looks like RFID to me. I thought they were done with them,
unless they have some new security feature.

[Taxed and Spent]

On 6/6/2016 8:19 PM, Sqwertz wrote:

>> look here
>>
>> http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Costco-Anywhere-Visa-Card/td-p/4512044/page/15
>
> OK, I see the logo. But that is *not* an RFID logo. That is a NFC
> logo.

no, that is an RFID logo.

>
> NB: Regarding that forum - People actually post all the credit cards
> they posses and their limits as bragging rights? Wow, how pompous is
> that?
>
> -sw
>

yeah, no kidding. I guess some people are unable to brag about their
cooking, so they had to find *something*.

[Ophelia]

"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message

news:foublblpfbnjhufvd...@4ax.com...

Yes:)

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Ophelia]

"dsi1" <ds...@fishing.net> wrote in message

news:nj4uq5$uqu$1...@dont-email.me...

I guess so:( I was shopping this morning and I had a chat and a laugh with
the cashier, the customer behind me:) That often seems to happen with me:)



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Ophelia]

"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:hfydnUYlDonJqsvK...@giganews.com...

Most people here talk about 'credit cards' is that what everyone uses? I do
have a credit card but rarely use it. I prefer to use my debit card and the
money comes straight out of my bank account.



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Nancy Young]

On 6/7/2016 9:14 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote

>> That's what I always think. I know they are grateful to slow down
>> when they send a bagger to get an item I couldn't find.
>
> Yes:)

It would never occur to me to get on line to pay if I still needed
something. I'd either think Oh well, no whatever for me today, or
I'd ask while I was still shopping.

nancy

[S Viemeister]

On 6/7/2016 9:22 AM, Ophelia wrote:

> Most people here talk about 'credit cards' is that what everyone uses?
> I do have a credit card but rarely use it. I prefer to use my debit
> card and the money comes straight out of my bank account.
>

In the US, I only use credit cards. Mine offer 'rewards' of varying
percentages back on purchases. I pay off the full amount each month, so
don't pay interest charges.
In the UK, I often use a debit card.

[Taxed and Spent]

On 6/6/2016 10:27 PM, Sqwertz wrote:

> No, IT'S AN *NFC* LOGO.
>
> http://technologyadvice.com/blog/information-technology/what-mobile-wallets-mean-for-business/
>

I can find lots of web pages that say it is an RFID symbol. But since I
agree with your comment below that both RFID and NFC are contactless,
the symbols may be used in any fashion by various companies. I recall
seeing this logo for RFID long before NFC came into being.




> Nobody uses plain RFID in cards any more. It was a demented joke. I
> don't even think they had more than a 1% scan share even when they
> were being used.
>
> NFC is much more secure than RFID for many reasons. And transactions
> are limited to $25. Which makes it much less useful for people
> wanting to steal your NFC card data, especially since it can't be used
> on the Internet.

and both RFID and NFC are both less secure than contact EMV.

>
> Note that a lot of people confuse NFC and RFID since scientifically
> they are the same thing. But when speaking of credit card and
> electronic technologies, they are very different protocols. And it
> doesn't help when Internet writers don't differentiate properly
> between old RFID and new NFC when they pretend to know what they're
> talking about. Apparently you're one of their victims.

No, I am not.

>
> You don't like it? Take hole punch to your card. The tags are
> supposed to be right under the logo which is conveniently in an
> otherwise unused space on the card. Presto - NFC disabled.
>
> -sw
>

[lucreti...@fl.it]

I use my credit cards for convenience and for the air miles (last six
trips to UK only paid the taxes, not for the seat) and I also use a
debit card. As above, so long as you pay the full amount every month
they don`t cost anything. I don`t have credit charges that charge a
`loading`cost yearly.

[Taxed and Spent]

On 6/7/2016 7:57 AM, Sqwertz wrote:

> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 07:03:19 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote:
>
>> On 6/6/2016 10:27 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
>>> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 21:23:52 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/6/2016 8:19 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 19:42:38 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> look here
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Costco-Anywhere-Visa-Card/td-p/4512044/page/15
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, I see the logo. But that is *not* an RFID logo. That is a NFC
>>>>> logo.
>>>>
>>>> no, that is an RFID logo.
>>>
>>> No, IT'S AN *NFC* LOGO.
>>>
>>> http://technologyadvice.com/blog/information-technology/what-mobile-wallets-mean-for-business/
>>>
>>
>> I can find lots of web pages that say it is an RFID symbol.
>

> It has NEVER, EVER legally been used for generic RFID. It's is a
> registered trademark of EMVco and owned by the major credit card
> companies, used by excplicit license grant, and can only be used to
> indicate contactless EMV (NFC) devices.
>
> https://www.emvco.com/best_practices.aspx?id=117

>
>> But since I
>> agree with your comment below that both RFID and NFC are contactless,
>> the symbols may be used in any fashion by various companies. I recall
>> seeing this logo for RFID long before NFC came into being.
>

> No, it cannot be used by any company for any reason. They can only be
> used by cards and devices which support EMV's contactless NFC protocol
> (an extension of ISO 14443), which is much more robust and secure than
> any conventional RFID tag that you've been screaming about.

>
>>> Nobody uses plain RFID in cards any more. It was a demented joke. I
>>> don't even think they had more than a 1% scan share even when they
>>> were being used.
>>>
>>> NFC is much more secure than RFID for many reasons. And transactions
>>> are limited to $25. Which makes it much less useful for people
>>> wanting to steal your NFC card data, especially since it can't be used
>>> on the Internet.
>>
>> and both RFID and NFC are both less secure than contact EMV.
>

> Yes, but RFID was thousands of times less secure than contactless EMV.
> IOW, you're getting your panties in a huff for practically no reason -
> basing your paranoia on old RFID technology that does not apply to new
> the card you have been issued.

>
>>> Note that a lot of people confuse NFC and RFID since scientifically
>>> they are the same thing. But when speaking of credit card and
>>> electronic technologies, they are very different protocols. And it
>>> doesn't help when Internet writers don't differentiate properly
>>> between old RFID and new NFC when they pretend to know what they're
>>> talking about. Apparently you're one of their victims.
>>
>> No, I am not.
>

> Yes, you are. NFC is not RFID. If you knew the difference you
> wouldn't have come in here screaming about RFID and arguing with
> everybody in the first place. Heck, even sf was right to argue with
> you for a change (she was just lucky, though).
>
> -sw
>

nfc is a subset of the more generic term RFID. Go back to sleep.

[Taxed and Spent]

On 6/7/2016 8:56 AM, Sqwertz wrote:

>> nfc is a subset of the more generic term RFID. Go back to sleep.
>

> <yawn> I've said this, what, 4 times now? And you just repeat what I
> said as some sort of ad hominem comment?

you talk out of both sides of your mouth.



>
> Nobody can clone your credit card by covertly scanning your
> contactless EMV card as they could by way of simple RFID - which was
> your original rant.

They can surely clone or create a false charge with the contactless
mode, which is less secure than the EMV contact mode. I will opt for
more security.

[Ophelia]

"S Viemeister" <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote in message
news:dro1m8...@mid.individual.net...

Ok that makes sense. Thanks:))


>

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Cindy Hamilton]

I use a credit card for most purchases over $10.00. I pay in full
every month and get 1% cash back. I get to keep my money in my
bank account for as long as possible.

I have a debit card, but I use it only in my bank's ATM to get cash
for "walking around money", those small purchases where I'd feel like
a fool pulling out a credit card. I went to the bread outlet
store at lunchtime today and spend 89 cents on a loaf of bread.

Cindy Hamilton

[Cindy Hamilton]

Additionally, there's the case where you get to the checkout and
something is damaged. It doesn't happen very often, but I recall
pulling a bag of flour or sugar or something out of the cart and
snagging it on something, whereupon it tore open a little bit.

We don't have baggers at my current grocery, though, so there's
nobody to send. The cashier bags the groceries.

Cindy Hamilton

[Ophelia]

"Cindy Hamilton" <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:87a89a3a-1bc1-4735...@googlegroups.com...

Ok, understood:) Thanks!
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[sf]

On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 14:22:12 +0100, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> Most people here talk about 'credit cards' is that what everyone uses? I do
> have a credit card but rarely use it. I prefer to use my debit card and the
> money comes straight out of my bank account.

I use a credit card that is paid off at the end of the month. If I
have a problem with a product or vendor, a debit card is the same as
if I paid cash... it's just me dealing with them. If I have the same
problem and used a credit card, I can call the bank and let them deal
with it if we reach an impasse.

--

sf

[Cheri]

"Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dro0or...@mid.individual.net...

> Most people here talk about 'credit cards' is that what everyone uses? I
> do have a credit card but rarely use it. I prefer to use my debit card
> and the money comes straight out of my bank account.

I use my BofA rewards card, but keep track of the purchases in my checkbook
so at the end of the month when I pay the bill in full, the money has
already been deducted, plus I can't pass up the cash back for using the
rewards card, it adds up fast.

Cheri

[sf]

It happened just the other day. I looked and looked, no one was in an
aisle to ask where to find it so I decided I'd buy it elsewhere. I
finished my shopping and while I was checking out, the checker asked
if I'd found everything I wanted. I said no. Blah, blah, blah. She
finished checking my items, I paid for them, and waited for the bagger
to return. He had choices. I chose one and paid for my item at
self-checkout. Everybody was happy.



--

sf

[sf]

On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 09:50:05 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
<angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Additionally, there's the case where you get to the checkout and
> something is damaged. It doesn't happen very often, but I recall
> pulling a bag of flour or sugar or something out of the cart and
> snagging it on something, whereupon it tore open a little bit.

That happened recently too and the checker noticed it before I did.
It hadn't lost much flour, so I told her to put it in a plastic bag
and transferred the contents to my flour canister when I got it home.

--

sf

[sf]

On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 14:16:05 +0100, "Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I guess so:( I was shopping this morning and I had a chat and a laugh with
> the cashier, the customer behind me:) That often seems to happen with me:)

It's the small town thing. A friend recently moved from where I live
to a suburb of Seattle and she says she loves the slow pace of life
there.

--

sf

[S Viemeister]

+1

[Ophelia]

"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message

news:pj3elbloartn9jpvn...@4ax.com...

Yes of course and I do that when buying big things, but not groceries.


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Ophelia]

"Cheri" <che...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:nj73i...@news4.newsguy.com...

Good plan!


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Ophelia]

"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message

news:8t4elbl2npr68i8du...@4ax.com...

I guess so:)

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Taxed and Spent]

On 6/7/2016 11:22 AM, Sqwertz wrote:

> Nobody can clone an EMV card - not even the issuing bank. But yes,
> SOME cards could be compromised to make one or two contactless
> purchases of $25 or less. Which doesn't make them very useful for
> hackers - there's only so much stuff you can get at 7-11 and Burger
> King. They sure ain't going to Aruba on your dime.
>
> -sw
>

yes, but the pain in dealing with a compromised card is, well, a pain.

[graham]

I don't use my bank/debit card for cash purchases now as the last time I
used it, the machine had been swapped by a crook and $500 was taken from
my a/c the next day, 2000 miles away! The bank refunded but the crook
"won" (as he did with numerous other shops in the complex).
I now use a free service from my bank that e-mails me every time my
cards are used.
Graham

[lucreti...@fl.it]

My bank does that, plus when I do use my debit card it is set to send
the balance of the last dollar to my savings account. Surprising how
that adds up as you go along.

[Nancy Young]

On 6/7/2016 12:50 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 9:34:52 AM UTC-4, Nancy Young wrote:

>> It would never occur to me to get on line to pay if I still needed
>> something. I'd either think Oh well, no whatever for me today, or
>> I'd ask while I was still shopping.

> Additionally, there's the case where you get to the checkout and
> something is damaged. It doesn't happen very often, but I recall
> pulling a bag of flour or sugar or something out of the cart and
> snagging it on something, whereupon it tore open a little bit.

Things happen. There are reasons to go back for something
once you're in line, but I don't go there with that intention.

> We don't have baggers at my current grocery, though, so there's
> nobody to send. The cashier bags the groceries.

We generally don't have baggers here, either. It was hit or
miss, now the way they have the stations set up, they just
bag the stuff and put it on a circulation table for you to
pick up.

nancy

[Nancy Young]

Including me. You weren't holding up the line at all. That's
a great thing for a bagger to do since there aren't too many
employees around to ask in the aisles.

nancy