French Onion Soup
kilikini
is beef, the other is chicken. I usually make my own stock, but I'm
thinking French onion soup with the beef.
Yes, I've done the Google, there are a million hits out there. I'm looking
for something specific.
My old friend, Marty, back on Maui (who has since passed) was always
promising to make me his version of French Onion soup. I vaguely recall the
ingredients, but included were champagne and sherry, maybe, could be brandy,
though. I know you have to use onions, broth, croutons and cheese, but I
was wondering if anyone had a similar recipe to Marty's that I could try.
I'd be eternally grateful. I want to do it right, rich, and flavorful.
I've never made this soup before, so any ideas are welcome. I'm thinking of
making it this weekend. Help me, please!
kili
TammyM
"kilikini" <kili...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4602a707$0$19409$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Have you tried Barb's crockpot method? Go to her jamlady web site, it's
right there. Others scoff, I like it!
TammyM
Mr Libido Incognito
> Have you tried Barb's crockpot method? Go to her jamlady web site, it's
> right there. Others scoff, I like it!
>
> TammyM
>
>
Also it is almost a must to use mixed onion types...say a sweet or two, a
yellow or 2 and a white or two....The differing onions add more complex
flavour as I see it.
kilikini
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:55:46 -0500, kilikini wrote:
>
>
>> I've never made this soup before, so any ideas are welcome. I'm
>> thinking of making it this weekend. Help me, please!
>>
>> kili
>
> can't really go wrong. You have seen the recipes.
>
> I have made it most every way possible. My tips are:
>
> add a little sugar
> add a little flour
> real butter
> splash of brandy
> I like beef stock better than chicken for this dish and homemade is
> best. use a nice rustic loaf for the croutons
> use Gruyere or Emmenthaler and use plenty of it
>
>
> jay
Okay, so you use brandy. I may not have been too off the mark, then!
Thanks, Jay!
kili
kilikini
Thanks for the heads up, Tammy. I have her website bookmarked, but haven't
thoroughly checked it. I will do so. Again, thank you!
kili
kilikini
Interesting, okay, thanks, Alan.
kili
Janet Puistonen
Use the recipe in Mastering The Art of French Cooking. There's nothing
better. (The major mistake most people make is not cooking the onions slowly
enough and long enough.)
Peter A
@NOSPAMhotmail.com says...
> > Have you tried Barb's crockpot method? Go to her jamlady web site,
> > it's right there. Others scoff, I like it!
> >
> > TammyM
>
> Thanks for the heads up, Tammy. I have her website bookmarked, but haven't
> thoroughly checked it. I will do so. Again, thank you!
>
> kili
>
You want really great French onion soup? No need to look further than
Julia's first cookbook. It requires some work, because you have to make
your own beef stock, but it is true heaven. So much better than the
grossly cheese-encrusted horrors that pass for French onion soup in so
many places these days.
--
Peter Aitken
kilikini
I'd make my own beef stock, but we never eat beef. Maybe I could go to the
butcher and get some bones. I'll look into it.
kili
Bob Terwilliger
> Have you tried Barb's crockpot method? Go to her jamlady web site, it's
> right there. Others scoff, I like it!
I didn't find it there, but Google groups turned up
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/7ae4f750f9bcd17a
One thing I'd like to note is that it matters how you cut up the onions.
Kate B mentioned the Thomas Keller method of slicing them pole-to-pole,
which apparently breaks fewer of the cell walls and leads to a better
finished product. I've tried it, and I agree. (I think Wayne posted an
agreement also.)
Bob
kilikini
Wow, I wouldn't have thought that slicing method made a difference. Thanks!
kili
kilikini
Thanks for the tip, Janet. I'll look it up.
kili
Jo Anne
In a heavy saucepan, saute 5-6 thinly sliced onions in a couple
tablespoons of butter. If it seems too dry, add more butter. Cook the
onions slowly until they are browned.
Add a couple tablespoons of flour, and stir this around for a bit.
Then add about 1/2 cup of white wine, turn up the heat, and cook until
most of the wine has evaporated.
Add a quart or so beef stock or bouillon, along with a bay leaf. Bring
to a boil, then turn down the heat and let it simmer. *The secret is
to let it simmer for a couple of hours. This makes it lovely and
rich.* (Heh. I sounded like Sandra Lee there.) Towards the end of
cooking, you can add some more booze if you like. More white wine, or
maybe brandy or sherry. Sherry actually tastes very good in this
recipe.
When done, do the usual bread and gruyere thing.
Jo Anne
kilikini
Now, this seems more like my Marty's recipe.
kili
Jo Anne
Glad to have been of service. I make this soup a lot. I've never had
restaurant French onion that I like as well.
Oh, and it freezes well. I put it in single-serve containers, and pop
the soup-sicles right into a saucepan to thaw and heat up.
Jo Anne
jmcquown
Once again, assumptions. Like "Go to TJ's" or "Get it at Costco". kili may
or may not have a copy of Mastering the Art of French Cooking. I somehow
doubt it; I have a lot of cookbooks but that is not one of them. I *do*
know she doesn't have a library nearby; neither do I. If you have a copy of
that book perhaps you could post the recipe with proper citations to help
her out?
Jill
Victor Sack
> I'm looking
> for something specific.
How specific? :-) If you want real *French* onion soup, then making it
with chicken stock or water would be much more typical, even though
versions with beef stock are certainly not unknown in France. Below are
three versions, the first, made with chicken stock, is probably the most
famous of them all, from Pied de Cochon in Paris, as recorded by
Patricia Wells in _Bistro Cooking_. The second, made with water, is
from _La Cuisine du Marché_ by Paul Bocuse. The third, which can be
made with beef stock as an alternative to water, is also by Paul Bocuse
from his Web site.
Victor
Soupe a l'Oignon Pied de Cochon (Pied de Cochon's Onion Soup)
1 very large (1 pound; 500 g) white onion (such as Bermuda), thinly
sliced
2 cups (50 cl) dry white wine, such as Muscadet or Macon-Villages
2 tablespoons (1 ounce; 30 g) unsalted butter
6 cups (1.5 l) unsalted chicken stock, preferably homemade
6 slices crusty baguette
2 cups (about 5 ounces; 160 g) freshly grated imported French or Swiss
Gruyere cheese
1. Preheat the oven to 425 F (220 C).
2. Combine the onion, wine, and butter in a baking dish and braise,
uncovered, until the onion is very soft and most of the liquid is
absorbed, about 45 minutes. Increase the oven temperature to broil.
3. Meanwhile, bring the stock to a simmer in a large, non-reactive
saucepan.
4. Evenly distribute the cooked onions among 6 deep, round soup bowls.
Pour in the simmering stock. Place a round of bread on top of each;
evenly distribute the grated cheese. Place the soup bowls under the
broiler and broil just until the cheese is melted and nicely gratineed,
2 or 3 minutes. Serve immediately.
Yield: 6 servings
_________________________________________________________________
Gratinée lyonnaise (_La Cuisine du Marché_, Paul Bocuse)
75 grams butter
350 grams peeled, halved, and sliced yellow onions
1 tablespoon flour
1-1/4 liters water
salt and freshly ground black pepper, to taste
1 small bouquet garni
100 grams thinly sliced baguette
125 grams grated gruyère
1 egg yolk
1 tablespoon madeira
1. Preheat oven to 450 °F.
2. Melt butter over medium heat in a large sauce pan. Add onions and
sweat until soft and golden - do not brown. Sprinkle the flour over the
onions. Mix well and cook a bit. Add the water, salt, pepper, and
bouquet garni; bring to a boil; reduce heat; and simmer for about 30
minutes.
3. In the mean time, dry baguette slices in the oven. Set aside until
needed.
4. Discard the bouquet garni and pass the rest of the onion mixture
through a food mill. Strain the purée into a sauce pan. Use a rubber
spatula to force the solids through the strainer. Keep warm.
5. Line the bottom of the soup bowls with alternating layers of bread
and half the grated cheese. Gently divide the soup among the bowls.
Divide the remaining cheese among the bowls. Place the bowls in the
oven until the cheese is melted.
6. Combine the egg yolk and the wine. Divide the mixture over the top
of the melted cheese and return to the oven until the mixture cooks.
Yield: 2 servings.
____________________________________________________________________
<http://www.bocuse.fr/recettes/ficherecette_us.asp?id=137>
Lyon-style Onion Soup
"In Lyon we put onions in almost everything, and we even claim the
copyright on the celebrated onion soup that the Ile-de-France and
specifically Les Halles market in Paris adopted as their own, with a few
modifications.
Let them keep their version.
Here is the real Lyonnais gratinée, the way we like it chez nous."
Ingredients
3/4 pound yellow onions
5 tablespoons unsalted butter
1/4 cup flour
Salt
Freshly ground pepper
6 cups water or beef bouillon
1/2 loaf French-style crusty bread or 4 slices firm white bread
3/4 pound Gruyère cheese or other Swiss-style cheese
1/3 cup cognac
1 egg yolk (optional)
3/4 cup port wine (optional)
Recipe
Peel the onions and slice as thinly as possible.
Melt 4 tablespoons of the butter in à Dutch oven or other large heavy
pot.
Add the onions and sauté, stirring frequently.
When the onions are nicely browned, sprinkle them evenly with the flour.
Let cook for a minute longer, then add the water or bouillon.
Season to taste with the salt and pepper. (If using bouillon or stock,
be careful not to add too much salt.)
Cook at a gentle boil for 30 minutes.
Meanwhile, slice the bread thinly and toast lightly.
Grate half of the cheese and cut the other half into thin slices.
In the bottom of an ovenproof soup tureen place the remaining tablespoon
of butter and a little of the grated cheese.
Add a layer of toasted bread slices.
Cover with thin slices of cheese.
Continue to layer the grated cheese, toast, and sliced cheese,
alternating layers.
Thoroughly wet the ingredients with a small amount of the broth.
Place under a hot broiler to grill until all of the liquid is completely
absorbed.
Add the remaining broth and the cognac.
Place in the oven for 10 minutes longer.
In a small bowl, combine the egg yolk and the port, if using, and whisk
until well blended.
Just before serving the soup, pour this mixture over the top of the
tureen.
This soup should be served very hot, nearly boiling.
Kent
"jmcquown" <jmcq...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:56gn2fF...@mid.individual.net...
most important cookbooks published in the U.S. along with but in no way
similar to "The Joy of Cooking".
Julia changed everything for all of us.
If you don't have it you can buy it here:
http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Art-French-Cooking-One/dp/0375413405/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-2840449-5911965ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174621895&sr=8-1
We bought our first copy in 1966, and it has been a bible ever since, as it
has for most serious cooks in the U.S. I recently purchased a second copy to
get us to the final breath. The first one wore out. If you don't have it on
your shelf you're not a serious cook. I'd strongly suggest, Jill, that you
buy it.
Kent
Kent
"kilikini" <kili...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
stock. In California making beef stock at home is prohibitively expensive.
You can no longer get bones free. Every piece of the cow is worth at least
$1/lb. Actually a veal stock would be better than beef. I use "Better than
Bouillon".
Kent
Kent
"Victor Sack" <azaz...@koroviev.de> wrote in message
news:1hvelam.1867bxp1ve8myoN%azaz...@koroviev.de...
stock these days, that chicken stock, possibly along with wine might be a
good idea.
In the second recipe above, the ratio of onions to liquid is much too small.
You can't make it with water, a disaster!!!
In the third recipe there is too much roux, and the soup will be too thick.
None of the recipes stress the importance of carmelizing the onions. They
all seem to have too little onion per amount of liquid.
Julia, where are you when we need you?
Kent
Kent
Kent
"Janet Puistonen" <box...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:OKzMh.15017$dG.7682@trndny08...
element in making the soup right. You have to very slowly carmelize the
onions in butter for at least 30 min. to make it work before you add your
stock.
Kent
Bob Terwilliger
>> The second, made with water, is from _La Cuisine du Marché_ by Paul
>> Bocuse. The third, which can be made with beef stock as an alternative
>> to water, is also by Paul Bocuse from his Web site.
<snip>
> In the second recipe above, the ratio of onions to liquid is much too
> small. You can't make it with water, a disaster!!!
> In the third recipe there is too much roux, and the soup will be too
> thick.
> None of the recipes stress the importance of carmelizing the onions. They
> all seem to have too little onion per amount of liquid.
> Julia, where are you when we need you?
I'm just going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that Paul Bocuse knows
how to make onion soup better than idiot pseudo-savant Kent.
Bob
Bob Terwilliger
> The "slow and long" cooking of the onions is the single most important
> element in making the soup right. You have to very slowly carmelize the
> onions in butter for at least 30 min. to make it work before you add your
> stock.
Kent, if you're going to be pedantic, at least learn how to spell. This is
the second recent post of yours where you say the onions are "carmelized."
The word is "caramelize." Or are you talking about one of a couple dozen
geographic locations, products , or people named Carmel? (e.g., the i840
Carmel, a defunct chipset for dual Pentium 3 and Pentium 3 Xeon processors)
Bob
kilikini
> kilikini <kili...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm looking
>> for something specific.
>
> How specific? :-) If you want real *French* onion soup, then making
> it with chicken stock or water would be much more typical, even though
> versions with beef stock are certainly not unknown in France. Below
> are three versions, the first, made with chicken stock, is probably
> the most famous of them all, from Pied de Cochon in Paris, as
> recorded by Patricia Wells in _Bistro Cooking_. The second, made
> with water, is from _La Cuisine du Marché_ by Paul Bocuse. The
> third, which can be made with beef stock as an alternative to water,
> is also by Paul Bocuse from his Web site.
>
(recipes snipped to save space)
These are all so different, thus my quandry. Maybe I'll just try a few
bases and see what I prefer. I can do a chicken one and I'll try a beef
one. Thanks, Victor.
kili
jmcquown
Kili, I was going to say... if he used champagne substitute that for the
white wine and I'd definitely go with dry sherry, not brandy. Brandy seems
a tad too heavy for this. Just my 2 cents ;)
Jill
jmcquown
LOL! I'm guessing that, as well! Also, Victor happens to live closer to
that part of the world than most of us and he knows what he's talking about
:)
jmcquown
> "jmcquown" <jmcq...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:56gn2fF...@mid.individual.net...
>> Janet Puistonen wrote:
>>> kilikini wrote:
>>>> My old friend, Marty, back on Maui (who has since passed) was
>>>> always promising to make me his version of French Onion soup. I
>>>> vaguely recall the ingredients, but included were champagne and
>>>> sherry, maybe, could be brandy, though. I know you have to use
>>>> onions, broth, croutons and cheese, but I was wondering if anyone
>>>> had a similar recipe to Marty's that I could try.
>>>>
>>> nothing better. (The major mistake most people make is not cooking
>>> the onions slowly enough and long enough.)
>>
>> Once again, assumptions. Like "Go to TJ's" or "Get it at Costco".
>> kili may
>> or may not have a copy of Mastering the Art of French Cooking. I
>> somehow doubt it; I have a lot of cookbooks but that is not one of
>> them.
>>
> among the most important cookbooks published in the U.S. along with
> but in no way similar to "The Joy of Cooking".
> Julia changed everything for all of us.
> If you don't have it you can buy it here:
>
http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Art-French-Cooking-One/dp/0375413405/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-2840449-5911965ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174621895&sr=8-1
> We bought our first copy in 1966, and it has been a bible ever since,
> as it has for most serious cooks in the U.S. I recently purchased a
> second copy to get us to the final breath. The first one wore out. If
> you don't have it on your shelf you're not a serious cook. I'd
> strongly suggest, Jill, that you buy it.
>
> Kent
Perhaps you'd like to send me the money to buy another cookbook? I'll admit
Julia was a great cook even though she didn't think about cooking until
later in her life. But I've gotten along all these years without this book
so I think I'll survive without it. By the way, I don't own a copy of Joy
of Cooking, either. Don't plan to buy that one in the future, either. It's
not the book, it's the cook :)
Jill
kilikini
Well, I've already got sherry, so I may just go with that. Thanks, Jill.
kili
kilikini
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 06:40:39 -0600, jmcquown wrote:
>
>
>
>> Kili, I was going to say... if he used champagne substitute that for
>> the white wine and I'd definitely go with dry sherry, not brandy.
>> Brandy seems a tad too heavy for this. Just my 2 cents ;)
>>
>> Jill
>
>
> jay
Cognac is brandy-like. I'll go with a little bottle of V.S.O.P., maybe. I
don't know what I'm going to do exactly; I'm getting so many good ideas from
you all. Now, I'm even thinking I should make the soup and also cook swiss
cheese fondue to go with it. They seem like a perfect match, don't they?
kili
Peter A
@NOSPAMhotmail.com says...
> Cognac is brandy-like.
>
Cognac is not "brandy-like," it *is* brandy.
--
Peter Aitken
Whatever
good.
FRENCH ONION SOUP
Printed from COOKS.COM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1/4 c. butter
2 cloves crushed garlic
1/2 tsp. sugar
7 c. beef stock
Salt and pepper
6 c. thinly sliced onions
1 tsp. salt
1/4 c. flour
1/2 c. Madeira or sherry
TOPPING:
16 thick slices French stick (baguette)
2 tbsp. Dijon mustard
Freshly grated Parmesan cheese (optional)
1/4 c. mayonnaise
2 c. shredded Swiss cheese
Melt butter; cook onions and garlic, stirring occasionally, for 15 minutes.
Add salt and sugar; cook, stirring frequently, for 30-40 minutes or until
onions are deep golden brown. Stir in flour; cook, stirring, for 2 minutes.
Add stock and Madeira; simmer partially covered, for 30 minutes. Season with
salt and pepper to taste.
Meanwhile, on baking sheet, bake bread in 325 degree F oven for about 30
minutes or until dry and lightly browned. In bowl, blend mayonnaise with
mustard; stir in Swiss cheese. Spread on top of each bread round. Ladle soup
into ovenproof bowls. Float 2 bread rounds cheese side up in each bowl.
Sprinkle with Parmesan (if using). Broil until cheese mixture is bubbly and
lightly browned. Makes 8 servings.
sf
>Cognac is brandy from Cognac..touted as the best. I buy a moderately
>priced brandy made in California called Germain-Robin. You don't have to
>use any liquor in the onion soup to get a great soup. The quality of the
>broth is more important IMO as well as the onions and cheese of course. If
>you do the Swiss cheese fondue and the soup..your menu will somewhat
>cheesy.
I agree, Jay. I'd never consider adding brandy to chicken or beef
broth for soup.... but it's a dandy addition to chicken pot pie!
--
See return address to reply by email
TammyM
>"kilikini" <kili...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
>> the
>> butcher and get some bones. I'll look into it.
>>
>> kili
>>
>>
>Worry more about the onion and caramelizing them properly than the beef
>stock. In California making beef stock at home is prohibitively expensive.
>You can no longer get bones free. Every piece of the cow is worth at least
>$1/lb. Actually a veal stock would be better than beef. I use "Better than
>Bouillon".
Although I probably wouldn't characterize the making of beef stock in
Cali as "prohibitively expensive", it's certainly not the frugality it
once was. I used to be able to go to a now-defunct neighborhood
market (McKinley Park 'hood for you locals) with an in-house butcher
and get dem bones fer nothin' (as Kent says above). I now have to
drive to Corti's (considerably down the freeway from me) and buy 5
poundsa bones costing about $7 but makes quite a lot of stock which is
far superior to anything found in the grocery store <dusts shoulder>.
Still. It used to be much much more of a money-saver.
TammyM
TammyM
Mr Libido Incognito
> Interesting, okay, thanks, Alan.
>
> kili
>
Got the idea on a italian cooking show on PBS...
Christine Dabney
>Although I probably wouldn't characterize the making of beef stock in
>Cali as "prohibitively expensive", it's certainly not the frugality it
>once was. I used to be able to go to a now-defunct neighborhood
>market (McKinley Park 'hood for you locals) with an in-house butcher
>and get dem bones fer nothin' (as Kent says above). I now have to
>drive to Corti's (considerably down the freeway from me) and buy 5
>poundsa bones costing about $7 but makes quite a lot of stock which is
>far superior to anything found in the grocery store <dusts shoulder>.
>Still. It used to be much much more of a money-saver.
Try going to an Asian market or a mercado/carneceria instead. I think
you will find that the meat/bones are much cheaper.
When I was a resident of northern California, I could find excellent
broth making cuts of beef, in those types of markets. Great beef
shanks, neck bones, etc for a fraction of the price that I would pay
in other markets.
Christine
TammyM
I'll check the mercados here. The one down the block is unlikely to
carry bones as they don't have a meat counter :-) The one down the
street, near the levee, is a likelier suspect. The nearest Asian
market is on Broadway which still involves a drive (gas is topping
$3.06/gallon now). I could bike down there, and have done so, I'll
have to get out my beater bike. No way I'm taking the Litespeed down
there!!!!!
TammyM
Kent
or onion soup gratinee pretty much the same way I do. This includes recipes
from Raymond Oliver, Henri-Paul Pellaprat, Dione Lucas, and two editions of
the Larousse Gastronomique, people with far greater credentials than Patty
Wells, or Paul Bocuse, or some obscure recipe from Lyon.
Basically you lightly brown the sliced onions, add a bit of flour to make an
onion-roux, add your stock +/- a bit of wine, cook, and finish with the
sliced crusty baguette and grated cheese.
Patty Wells doesn't brown the onions, a necessary step. Paul Bocuse, as is
said above, uses water[God, help us] and purees the onions[God, help us
further]
The Lyon recipe uses optional water, port, and egg yolk!!!
Kent, your savant,
Sheldon
> Kent wrote:
> > "jmcquown" <jmcqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >news:56gn2fF...@mid.individual.net...
> >> Janet Puistonen wrote:
> >>> kilikini wrote:
> >>>> My old friend, Marty, back on Maui (who has since passed) was
> >>>> always promising to make me his version of French Onion soup. I
> >>>> vaguely recall the ingredients, but included were champagne and
> >>>> sherry, maybe, could be brandy, though. I know you have to use
> >>>> onions, broth, croutons and cheese, but I was wondering if anyone
> >>>> had a similar recipe to Marty's that I could try.
>
> >>> Use the recipe in Mastering The Art of French Cooking. There's
> >>> nothing better. (The major mistake most people make is not cooking
> >>> the onions slowly enough and long enough.)
>
> >> Once again, assumptions. Like "Go to TJ's" or "Get it at Costco".
> >> kili may
> >> or may not have a copy of Mastering the Art of French Cooking. I
> >> somehow doubt it; I have a lot of cookbooks but that is not one of
> >> them.
>
> > Julia Child's Mastering the Art of French Cooking, Vol 1[&2] are
> > among the most important cookbooks published in the U.S. along with
> > but in no way similar to "The Joy of Cooking".
> > Julia changed everything for all of us.
> > If you don't have it you can buy it here:
>
>
> > We bought our first copy in 1966, and it has been a bible ever since,
> > as it has for most serious cooks in the U.S. I recently purchased a
> > second copy to get us to the final breath. The first one wore out. If
> > you don't have it on your shelf you're not a serious cook. I'd
> > strongly suggest, Jill, that you buy it.
>
> > Kent
>
> Perhaps you'd like to send me the money to buy another cookbook? I'll admit
> Julia was a great cook even though she didn't think about cooking until
> later in her life. But I've gotten along all these years without this book
> so I think I'll survive without it. By the way, I don't own a copy of Joy
> of Cooking, either. Don't plan to buy that one in the future, either. It's
> not the book, it's the cook :)
This is true, if you're a lousy cook no book will help. And if you're
a great cook you're not going to follow any recipe. And Julia was no
great cook, and she was extremely clumsy in the kitchen. Julia was a
*manufactured* TV personality who was portrayed as a cook but who
actually couldn't cook a lick... Julia was an actress... only reason
she's a cooking icon is that she hosted the first TV cooking show.
And since the advent of the net no one really needs any cookbooks...
any recipe/food fact is a couple mouse clicks away. I stopped buying
cookbooks many years ago. Of the hundreds I've bought I can only
recommend a few that I consider essential. The JOC and Julias works
are waht I call general cookbooks. I only like specialty cookbooks,
those that focus on one type of food (ie. meat, bread, sausage,
confections, etc.) or one ethnicity/region only. I'm really not into
TV food personalities, I don't think too many are very good cooks, for
the most part they're just acting... perhaps 20 pct can actually cook.
Sheldon
Sheldon
> "Janet Puistonen" wrote:
> > kilikini wrote:
> >> In a birthday package yesterday, I got two jars of Penzey's
> >> bouillion. One is beef, the other is chicken. I usually make my own
> >> stock, but I'm thinking French onion soup with the beef.
>
> >> Yes, I've done the Google, there are a million hits out there. I'm
> >> looking for something specific.
>
> >> My old friend, Marty, back on Maui (who has since passed) was always
> >> promising to make me his version of French Onion soup. I vaguely
> >> recall the ingredients, but included were champagne and sherry,
> >> maybe, could be brandy, though. I know you have to use onions,
> >> broth, croutons and cheese, but I was wondering if anyone had a
> >> similar recipe to Marty's that I could try.
>
> >> I'd be eternally grateful. I want to do it right, rich, and
> >> flavorful.
>
> >> I've never made this soup before, so any ideas are welcome. I'm
> >> thinking of making it this weekend. Help me, please!
>
> >> kili
>
> > Use the recipe in Mastering The Art of French Cooking. There's nothing
> > better. (The major mistake most people make is not cooking the onions
> > slowly enough and long enough.)
>
> The "slow and long" cooking of the onions is the single most important
> element in making the soup right. You have to very slowly carmelize the
> onions
Actually that sucks... you're supposed to caramelize onions... I never
saw a carmel onion... well, maybe on a farm in California. Stop
pontificating, Kent, you know nothing.
In these modern times the easiest and best tasting onion soup is made
with toasted dehy onions.... tastes much nicer than with greasy
caramelized onions, because if you use all that butter your onion soup
won't taste right and will contain way too much fat, and it you drain
off the fat you lose most of the onion flavor. Of course if what you
want is fat laden onion soup use chicken schmaltz, not butter...
buttery onion soup is trailer trash cookery. My grandmother made a
great onion soup with flanken.
Kent
espagnole sauce, bechamel sauce, veloute sauce, and mornay sauce and the
others. What cookbook[s], if any, do you use?
Kent
"Sheldon" <PENM...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1174667792.2...@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Sheldon
>>
>>
Julia didn't profess to be a "great cook". She is a cookbook writer and
educator, like Marcella Hazan[Italian cooking], Julia Sahni[Indian cooking],
and relatively few others. They teach us how to cook. Julia brought classic
French cooking to the U.S. with rhetoric that is understandable, and
useable. To be a decent cook, you must have some knowledge of elementary
French cooking. That will probably bring screams from some; it is, however,
unquestionably true.
Tell us, Sheldon, what meat, sausage and bread cookbooks do you use? You
have to have a few basics before you jump in.
Kent
Christine Dabney
>Julia didn't profess to be a "great cook". She is a cookbook writer and
>educator, like Marcella Hazan[Italian cooking], Julia Sahni[Indian cooking],
>and relatively few others. They teach us how to cook. Julia brought classic
>French cooking to the U.S. with rhetoric that is understandable, and
>useable.
>Kent
>
>
>
Julia Child was a graduate of the Cordon Bleu in Paris: she recieved a
diploma/certificate from them. She took the professional cooking
course there.
I have the book she co-wrote with her grand-nephew, and the
description of her years in France, along with her education there is
fascinating and illuminating. She was not just an actress, although
she loved to ham it up according to her own accounts, but she was also
a very accomplished cook and teacher.
The book is My Life in France.
Christine
Sheldon
>
> Julia didn't profess to be a "great cook". She is a cookbook writer
No she's not... hardly any cookbooks were actually written by the
listed author.
> Tell us, Sheldon, what meat, sausage and bread cookbooks do you use? You
> have to have a few basics before you jump in.
I've posted about the books I use many times... Lobel, Kutas,
Greenstein.
Learn to trim your posts... if you cook like you post your kitchen is
a shit hole.
Sheldon
Melondy
But she WAS a great cook in that she went on a journey of foods and
cooking and had the ability to take people with her and share in those
discoveries. And she DID write books that were "specialty cookbooks,
> those that focus on one type of food (ie. meat, bread, sausage,
> confections, etc.) or one ethnicity/region only". What is French
Cooking if it isn't a reginal cuisine or an ethnic one? And it was
region that had a huge impact on the Western world. PLus Julia brought
such a joy to cooking, something that can't be said of everyone,
certainly not most TV cooks or chefs today.
Melondy
Kent
Sheldon
> "Sheldon" wrote:
> > "Kent" wrote:
>
> >> Julia didn't profess to be a "great cook". She is a cookbook writer
>
> > No she's not... hardly any cookbooks were actually written by the
> > listed author.
>
> >> Tell us, Sheldon, what meat, sausage and bread cookbooks do you use? You
> >> have to have a few basics before you jump in.
>
> > I've posted about the books I use many times... Lobel, Kutas,
> > Greenstein.
>
> > Learn to trim your posts... if you cook like you post your kitchen is
> > a shit hole.
>
Of course not, there was no garbage. And that's 'in the post to which
I was responding'... only uneducated pinheads end sentences with a
preposition. If you read like you write you can't. Kent, your
imbecile's IQ hasn't risen one iota during all the many months you've
been absent, in fact I believe it's dropped a few points... any lower
and you'll be totally brain dead, a vegetable.
And you still haven't learned how to clean up the attributions (I had
to do it for you), you're just as much a newbie as 90 pct of
rfc'ers... if they live like they post it's not possible that the
slobs ever bathe.
Sheldon
Morvin Stayner
news:1174685610.7...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
You're absolutely right! I'm sure he meant to say "Did you read
the
absolute garbage you wrote in the post I was responding to,
Asshole?"
M
Victor Sack
> The first recipe is OK. I think, given the poor quality of commercial beef
> stock these days, that chicken stock, possibly along with wine might be a
> good idea.
> In the second recipe above, the ratio of onions to liquid is much too small.
> You can't make it with water, a disaster!!!
> In the third recipe there is too much roux, and the soup will be too thick.
> None of the recipes stress the importance of carmelizing the onions. They
> all seem to have too little onion per amount of liquid.
> Julia, where are you when we need you?
Do you even realise how ridiculous you appear? The recipes are as
typical as they get. One is Parisian, from Pied de Cochon, the most
famous of Les Halles bistros. Two others are both by Paul Bocuse, the
81-year-old doyen of French chefs everywhere, pupil of the great Fernand
Point. His restaurant in a Lyon suburb has had three Michelin stars
uninterrupted since 1965. Despite his early reputation as a Nouvelle
Cuisine chef, he has actually always been and still remains an
ultra-traditional chef. You don't think he'd learn how to cook the most
famous soup of his home town? See
<http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/15/features/bocuse.php>.
You see, there is such a country as France out there. It is not a
figment of anyone's imagination. And there are such cities as Lyon with
its bouchons and Paris with its bistros, among other places. And people
are still cooking their versions of onion soup in those places. And
those versions are for the most part very close to the recipes I posted.
I posted them because they are typical. Has it ever occurred to you to
actually go there and see for yourself? You will easily discover that
most onion soups of this kind are made with either water or chicken
stock. You will also discover just as easily that onions are relatively
rarely caramelised. See
<http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/magazine/11food.t.html?ex=1174795200&en=6a7ea3acd4b74a40&ei=5070>.
You might have also maybe thought of reading something about the history
of the French onion soup in order to discover the prototypical panade
d'oignons, made with water.
See also <http://www.hertzmann.com/articles/2001/onion/>.
Victor
Kent
"kilikini" <kili...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> Victor Sack wrote:
>> kilikini <kili...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm looking
>>> for something specific.
>>
>> it with chicken stock or water would be much more typical, even though
>> versions with beef stock are certainly not unknown in France. Below
>> are three versions, the first, made with chicken stock, is probably
>> the most famous of them all, from Pied de Cochon in Paris, as
>> recorded by Patricia Wells in _Bistro Cooking_. The second, made
>> with water, is from _La Cuisine du Marché_ by Paul Bocuse. The
>> third, which can be made with beef stock as an alternative to water,
>> is also by Paul Bocuse from his Web site.
>>
>
>
> These are all so different, thus my quandry. Maybe I'll just try a few
> bases and see what I prefer. I can do a chicken one and I'll try a beef
> one. Thanks, Victor.
>
> kili
>
>
Kili, if you're doing this for the first time, I would strongly suggest
following this.
The following is from Gourmet Magazine in 1991, and very closely
approximates all of the
classical French chefs' recipes I referred to above. I would do this the
first time and improvise the next time. Use a plain old canned beef stock.
It's not worth making your own stock for this dish. I'm going to try 2/3
chicken stock and 1/3 white wine the next time I make it. Make it with beef
stock initially.
SOUPE A L'OIGNON AU FROMAGE (FRENCH ONION SOUP)
6 large onions (about 5 pounds), sliced thin
1/2 stick (1/4 cup) unsalted butter
1 tablespoon all-purpose flour
1 1/2 quarts beef broth
twelve 1/2-inch-thick slices of French bread, toasted
3/4 pound coarsely grated Gruyère
In a large kettle cook the onions in the butter over moderate heat, stirring
frequently, for 40 minutes, or until they are golden brown. Sprinkle the
onions with the flour and cook the mixture, stirring, for 3 minutes. Add the
broth slowly, stir the soup constantly until it comes to a boil, and simmer
it, covered, for 20 minutes. Season the soup with salt and pepper. Put 2
slices of the toast in each of 6 heated soup bowls, top each toast with 1
tablespoon of the Gruyère, and pour the soup over the toasts. (To serve the
onion soup gratiné, arrange the 12 toasts on the bottom of a flameproof
casserole, heap each of them with 1 tablespoon of the Gruyère and boil it
under a preheated broiler about 4 inches from the heat for 3 minutes, or
until the cheese is melted and bubbling.)
>
Good Luck,
Kent
>
kilikini
Thanks, Kent. I'll give it a go.
kili
Kent
news:1hvgg15.va143d6f4uo0N%azaz...@koroviev.de...
> Kent <kh6...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> The first recipe is OK. I think, given the poor quality of commercial
>> beef
>> stock these days, that chicken stock, possibly along with wine might be
>> a
>> good idea.
>> In the second recipe above, the ratio of onions to liquid is much too
>> small.
>> You can't make it with water, a disaster!!!
>> In the third recipe there is too much roux, and the soup will be too
>> thick.
>> None of the recipes stress the importance of carmelizing the onions. They
>> all seem to have too little onion per amount of liquid.
>> Julia, where are you when we need you?
>
> Do you even realise how ridiculous you appear? The recipes are as
> typical as they get. One is Parisian, from Pied de Cochon, the most
> famous of Les Halles bistros.
>
>
reasonably sure we had onion soup at Le Pied de Cochon. We were as
indifferent about the soup as I am about the recipe.
>
>
>Two others are both by Paul Bocuse, the
> 81-year-old doyen of French chefs everywhere, pupil of the great Fernand
> Point. His restaurant in a Lyon suburb has had three Michelin stars
> uninterrupted since 1965. Despite his early reputation as a Nouvelle
> Cuisine chef, he has actually always been and still remains an
> ultra-traditional chef. You don't think he'd learn how to cook the most
> famous soup of his home town? See
> <http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/15/features/bocuse.php>.
>
>
don't how
how many times this must be said
>
>
> You see, there is such a country as France out there. It is not a
> figment of anyone's imagination. And there are such cities as Lyon with
> its bouchons and Paris with its bistros, among other places. And people
> are still cooking their versions of onion soup in those places. And
> those versions are for the most part very close to the recipes I posted.
> I posted them because they are typical. Has it ever occurred to you to
> actually go there and see for yourself?
>
>
the country. We've dined in countless Michelin 2 & 3 star restaurants. We've
never had an interest in Nouvelle Cuisine.
>
>
>You will easily discover that
> most onion soups of this kind are made with either water or chicken
> stock. You will also discover just as easily that onions are relatively
> rarely caramelised.
>
>
onion before
adding stock.
>
>
>See >
><http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/magazine/11food.t.html?ex=1174795200&en=6a7ea3acd4b74a40&ei=5070>.
>
>
>
I have a very hard time accepting that a food editor from the New York Times
would have the correct information about an issue such as this. Barbara
Kafka is an
exception. Amanda Hesser's recipe for French Onion Soup isn't remotely the
classical soup.
TOMATO??????????????????? Get serious.
>
>
> You might have also maybe thought of reading something about the history
> of the French onion soup in order to discover the prototypical panade
> d'oignons, made with water.
>
> See also <http://www.hertzmann.com/articles/2001/onion/>.
>
> Victor
>
>
French Onion Soup. You have not done that, even remotely. I would suggest
you go to your kitchen, and make your third soup recipe. 3/4 lb. onions to 6
cups water is a joke. The addition of egg yolk and port wine convert the
soup to a completely different dish.
I don't know why I'm carrying on about your ludicrious assertions. I think,
however, that RFC readers should know who the bull shitters are. You're
right in a class with PENMART01, or Sheldon, who calls Lobel's meat books,
and Rutas' sausage book cookbooks.
Kent
Victor Sack
> "Victor Sack" <azaz...@koroviev.de> wrote
> > Kent <kh6...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > Do you even realise how ridiculous you appear? The recipes are as
> > typical as they get. One is Parisian, from Pied de Cochon, the most
> > famous of Les Halles bistros.
> >
> We
Is that a royal "we", or do you have a mouse in your pocket?
> bought cookware at Dehillerin, which is very near Le Pied de Cochon. I'm
> reasonably sure we had onion soup at Le Pied de Cochon.
Okay, just for the moment I am willing to believe that maybe you once
had a version of onion soup in France. If it was Pied de Cochon's one,
it was not something you arbitrarily consider typical. So much for your
experience.
> We were as
> indifferent about the soup as I am about the recipe.
Okay, you do not like onion soup as typically cooked in Paris. How is
this relevant to the actual discussion?
> Paul Bocuse's recipe is a long way from traditional French Onion Soup. I
> don't how
> how many times this must be said
Your ignorance is as astounding as your display of it is ostentatious.
Besides, which "traditional French Onion Soup"? Panade d'oignons?
Velouté d'oignon? Garbure d'oignons? Gratinée lyonnaise? Gratinée des
Halles?
Who are you to argue with Bocuse, one of the greatest chefs in recent
history, a native of Lyon, presenting his home town's most famous soup,
in a way that makes it clear that it is a typical version, not his own
idiosyncratic one?
> We have been to France multiple times. We've driven through all regions in
> the country. We've dined in countless Michelin 2 & 3 star restaurants. We've
> never had an interest in Nouvelle Cuisine.
You are either lying outright, or your ignorance is even greater than I
realised. You've just actually confirmed that you have not had onion
soup in France, except perhaps that one time in Paris. First, virtually
no 2- or 3-star restaurants serve onion soup. Not even Bocuse does in
his main restaurant, even though quite a few bourgeois dishes do appear
on his menu. He does serve it in his Rotisserie Le Nord, for EUR 6.90.
Second, most every 2- or 3-star French restaurant today is a nouvelle
cuisine one. Hardly anyone still rigidly adheres to the canons of
Carême or Escoffier, except for often following the latter's advice to
"fait simple".
> >You will easily discover that
> > most onion soups of this kind are made with either water or chicken
> > stock. You will also discover just as easily that onions are relatively
> > rarely caramelised.
> >
> 99% of French Onion Soup recipes include slowly and lightly browning the
> onion before
> adding stock.
You are showing your fundamental dishonesty. First you start with
claiming that no water is used, and that "carmelizing" of onions is
necessary. Now you are backpedaling furiously and only claim light
browning of onions. And yet not browning them is just as typical in
France.
> >See >
>
><http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/magazine/11food.t.html?ex=1174795200
&en=6a7ea3acd4b74a40&ei=5070>.
> >
> I have a very hard time accepting that a food editor from the New York Times
> would have the correct information about an issue such as this. Barbara
> Kafka is an
> exception. Amanda Hesser's recipe for French Onion Soup isn't remotely the
> classical soup.
> TOMATO??????????????????? Get serious.
Okay, I see that you are not just ignorant and dishonest, you also
totally lack any reading comprehension. Have you ever been gainfully
employed? If so, I'm genuinely surprised. Hint (of the kind usually
reserved for the retarded): The recipe is not Amanda Hesser's; it is
Henri Babinski's, AKA Ali-Bab's, recipe, first published in 1907 in
France. It was first published in the New York Times by one Craig
Claiborne, in 1974. (Needless to say, all of this information is
provided in the article.) While I do happen to know something about
Claiborne that makes me dislike him intensely, his culinary expertise is
not in doubt, I hope. As to Ali-Bab, his monumental "Gastronomie
pratique" does not need much introduction, I assume.
> > You might have also maybe thought of reading something about the history
> > of the French onion soup in order to discover the prototypical panade
> > d'oignons, made with water.
> >
> > See also <http://www.hertzmann.com/articles/2001/onion/>.
> >
> Please, Victor, try to remember that Kili asked for a workable classical
> French Onion Soup. You have not done that, even remotely. I would suggest
> you go to your kitchen, and make your third soup recipe. 3/4 lb. onions to 6
> cups water is a joke. The addition of egg yolk and port wine convert the
> soup to a completely different dish.
You know, you have already made every effort to prove your ignorance and
I gladly confirm that you have succeeded most admirably. There is
really no need for you to supply yet another example.
Have you ever heard of La Mère Brazier? (This, BTW, is a rhetorical
question.) Bocuse was her pupil, too. You are now very welcome to look
up her classical gratinée lyonnaise recipe. Hint: it calls for egg
yolks and port wine.
> I don't know why I'm carrying on about your ludicrious assertions. I think,
> however, that RFC readers should know who the bull shitters are. You're
> right in a class with PENMART01, or Sheldon, who calls Lobel's meat books,
> and Rutas' sausage book cookbooks.
I do not know why some of you have suddenly started projecting so hard;
maybe it is some unfortunate combination of ignorance and narcissism.
Victor
Mark Thorson
>
> While I do happen to know something about
> Claiborne that makes me dislike him intensely,
> his culinary expertise is not in doubt, I hope.
What? Homophobia?
limey
<snip>
Would you be kind enough to critique this recipe? It is the one I
always use when making onion soup. I admit the addition of beef
bouillon cubes is my own idea.
* Exported from MasterCook *
Onion Soup
Recipe By :Fernande Garvin
3 medium onions -- thinly sliced
2 tablespoons butter
1 tablespoon flour
2 cups consommé (I used chicken broth)
3 1/2 cups water (I added 4 beef bouillon cubes)
1/2 cup white wine
1/4 cup milk
1/4 pound grated Swiss cheese
6 slices French bread (not toasted) -- dried in oven
1/2 teaspoon or so thyme
salt and pepper, to taste
2 tablespoons butter -- melted
In heavy skillet, cook onions in heated butter until slightly browned.
Sprinkle with flour and cook over low flame until golden, never allowing
the onions to become dark brown. Add consommé and water. Bring to
boil, stirring constantly with a wooden spoon, then simmer gently for 20
minutes uncovered. Add milk and wine. Pour into ovenproof casserole or
individual bowls. Place slices of bread on top. Sprinkle generously
with cheese. Add pepper. Sprinkle with melted butter. Brown quickly
under broiler. Serve.
Comments: If there is one French dish which is popular all over the
world, in all categories of restaurants, it is onion soup. Every day,
everywhere, people expectantly order onion soup, but what they too often
get is a sorry brew, the result of a long series of deteriorations of
the original recipe.
Honest-to-goodness onion soup is neither expensive nor difficult to
make. The important thing is that the taste of onion is well blended
and not bitter or harsh. The soup has the consistency of light cream
and is of a golden color. It is not a clear broth in which float small
pieces of dark and desiccated onion and a few specks of grated cheese.
Grated cheese may be added at the table, but a sufficient quantity has
to cook in the soup itself.
Note: The slices of bread should be dried in a heated oven after the
flame has been turned off. Do not toast them.
With proper care, you will get a smooth, soothing, golden soup, which
succeeds in being both pungent and delicate - no small achievement
indeed!
Source:
""The Art of French Cooking", by Fernande Garvin"
Kent
> Kent <kh6...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> "Victor Sack" <azaz...@koroviev.de> wrote
>> > Kent <kh6...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Do you even realise how ridiculous you appear? The recipes are as
>> > typical as they get. One is Parisian, from Pied de Cochon, the most
>> > famous of Les Halles bistros.
>> >
>> We
Mrs. and I
>
> Is that a royal "we", or do you have a mouse in your pocket?
>
>> bought cookware at Dehillerin, which is very near Le Pied de Cochon. I'm
>> reasonably sure we had onion soup at Le Pied de Cochon.
>
> Okay, just for the moment I am willing to believe that maybe you once
> had a version of onion soup in France. If it was Pied de Cochon's one,
> it was not something you arbitrarily consider typical. So much for your
> experience.
>
>> We were as
>> indifferent about the soup as I am about the recipe.
>
> Okay, you do not like onion soup as typically cooked in Paris. How is
> this relevant to the actual discussion?
>
>> Paul Bocuse's recipe is a long way from traditional French Onion Soup. I
>> don't how
>> how many times this must be said
>
> Your ignorance is as astounding as your display of it is ostentatious.
Your degree of cerebrall constipation is astounding. You would benefit from
a
cerebral enema[a high colonic irrigation with a valium solution].
.
> Besides, which "traditional French Onion Soup"? Panade d'oignons?
> Velouté d'oignon? Garbure d'oignons? Gratinée lyonnaise? Gratinée des
> Halles?
There is a "Classic French Onion Soup", as written in "The Larousse
Gastronomique
edited by Prosper Montagne, "Modern French Culinary Art", by Henri Paul
Pellaprat,
"La Cuisine, by Raymond Oliver, by The Dione Lucas, in "The Dione Lucas book
of French
Cooking". This is what Kili asked for. This is what I described below.
Certainly there are many chef/restaurant variations on the original dish,
but none of them are the classic "French Onion Soup".
> Who are you to argue with Bocuse, one of the greatest chefs in recent
> history, a native of Lyon, presenting his home town's most famous soup,
> in a way that makes it clear that it is a typical version, not his own
> idiosyncratic one?
>> We have been to France multiple times. We've driven through all regions
>> in
>> the country. We've dined in countless Michelin 2 & 3 star restaurants.
>> We've
>> never had an interest in Nouvelle Cuisine.
>
> You are either lying outright, or your ignorance is even greater than I
> realised. You've just actually confirmed that you have not had onion
> soup in France, except perhaps that one time in Paris.
We all eat lunch, Victor.
> First, virtually no 2- or 3-star restaurants serve onion soup.
> Not even Bocuse does in
> his main restaurant, even though quite a few bourgeois dishes do appear
> on his menu. He does serve it in his Rotisserie Le Nord, for EUR 6.90.
> Second, most every 2- or 3-star French restaurant today is a nouvelle
> cuisine one. Hardly anyone still rigidly adheres to the canons of
> Carême or Escoffier, except for often following the latter's advice to
> "fait simple".
>
>> >You will easily discover that
>> > most onion soups of this kind are made with either water or chicken
>> > stock. You will also discover just as easily that onions are
>> > relatively
>> > rarely caramelised.
>> >
>> 99% of French Onion Soup recipes include slowly and lightly browning the
>> onion before
>> adding stock.
>
> You are showing your fundamental dishonesty. First you start with
> claiming that no water is used, and that "carmelizing" of onions is
> necessary. Now you are backpedaling furiously and only claim light
> browning of onions. And yet not browning them is just as typical in
> France.
Victor, you lightly brown, over low heat for 20, to as long as 40 minutes
until
the onions become soft, and have a caramel like taste. This is what gives
the
soup its unique flavor. Then you add your stock, usually beef stock.
>
>> >See >
>>
>><http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/magazine/11food.t.html?ex=1174795200
> &en=6a7ea3acd4b74a40&ei=5070>.
>> >
>> I have a very hard time accepting that a food editor from the New York
>> Times
>> would have the correct information about an issue such as this. Barbara
>> Kafka is an >> exception. Amanda Hesser's recipe for French Onion Soup
>> isn't remotely the
>> classical soup.
>> TOMATO??????????????????? Get serious.
>
> Okay, I see that you are not just ignorant and dishonest, you also
> totally lack any reading comprehension. Have you ever been gainfully
> employed? If so, I'm genuinely surprised. Hint (of the kind usually
> reserved for the retarded): The recipe is not Amanda Hesser's; it is
> Henri Babinski's, AKA Ali-Bab's, recipe, first published in 1907 in
> France.
TOMATO, TOMATO, TOMATO! THERE AIN'T NO TOMATO IN 99.99% OF "FRENCH
ONION SOUPS"
>It was first published in the New York Times by one Craig
> Claiborne, in 1974. (Needless to say, all of this information is
> provided in the article.) While I do happen to know something about
> Claiborne that makes me dislike him intensely, his culinary expertise is
> not in doubt, I hope.
The Onion Soup recipe in Craig Claiborne's original "New York Times
Cookbook" published in 1961
is identical to what I wrote to Kili at the end of this somewhat ludicrious
thread.
>As to Ali-Bab, his monumental "Gastronomie
> pratique" does not need much introduction, I assume.
>
>> > You might have also maybe thought of reading something about the
>> > history
>> > of the French onion soup in order to discover the prototypical panade
>> > d'oignons, made with water.
>> >
>> > See also <http://www.hertzmann.com/articles/2001/onion/>.
>> >
>> Please, Victor, try to remember that Kili asked for a workable classical
>> French Onion Soup. You have not done that, even remotely. I would suggest
>> you go to your kitchen, and make your third soup recipe. 3/4 lb. onions
>> to 6
>> cups water is a joke. The addition of egg yolk and port wine convert the
>> soup to a completely different dish.
>
> You know, you have already made every effort to prove your ignorance and
> I gladly confirm that you have succeeded most admirably. There is
> really no need for you to supply yet another example.
>
> Have you ever heard of La Mère Brazier? (This, BTW, is a rhetorical
> question.) Bocuse was her pupil, too. You are now very welcome to look
> up her classical gratinée lyonnaise recipe. Hint: it calls for egg
> yolks and port wine.
99+% of French Onion Soup recipes don't call for egg.
>
>> I don't know why I'm carrying on about your ludicrious assertions. I
>> think,
>> however, that RFC readers should know who the bull shitters are. You're
>> right in a class with PENMART01, or Sheldon, who calls Lobel's meat
>> books,
>> and Rutas' sausage book cookbooks.
>
> I do not know why some of you have suddenly started projecting so hard;
> maybe it is some unfortunate combination of ignorance and narcissism.
> Victor
Victor, you truly have your head up your inferior orifice, leaving you
shaped like a tire, rolling down
a hill, with your arms flailing about to maintain some semblance of
balance. You not only need
a high colonic irrigation, you will need a toothbrush and a washcloth when
you get to the
bottom of the hill.
Head to the kitchen, boy,
Kent
Puester
> "Victor Sack" <azaz...@koroviev.de> wrote in message
>> I do not know why some of you have suddenly started projecting so hard;
>> maybe it is some unfortunate combination of ignorance and narcissism.
>> Victor
>
> Victor, you truly have your head up your inferior orifice, leaving you
> shaped like a tire, rolling down
> a hill, with your arms flailing about to maintain some semblance of
> balance. You not only need
> a high colonic irrigation, you will need a toothbrush and a washcloth when
> you get to the
> bottom of the hill.
>
> Head to the kitchen, boy,
>
> Kent
>
>
Hmmm. FWIW, my money's on Victor.
gloria p
Felice Friese
Felice
Goomba38
> Has either of you a recipe for Onion Soup Alfredo?
>
> Felice
>
>
>
TammyM
wrote:
And it better be authentic...
TammyM
Victor Sack
No. I'm reluctant to talk about it, since the information I have was
provided to me privately. Also, while I trust my source unreservedly,
others might not. To say it very mildly, it is alleged that Claiborne
once published something under his name that was mostly written by
someone else. That someone is said to have forgiven him, after a long
time, though.
Victor
Victor Sack
> Would you be kind enough to critique this recipe?
The recipe, as such, seems to be a perfectly good one. I wouldn't call
it really French, but it is close enough. BTW, I have never once posted
anything about non-authentic onion soup recipes being inferior. Very
often they are not and sometimes they are very good indeed.
> Onion Soup
>
> Recipe By :Fernande Garvin
>
> 3 medium onions -- thinly sliced
> 2 tablespoons butter
> 1 tablespoon flour
> 2 cups consommé (I used chicken broth)
> 3 1/2 cups water (I added 4 beef bouillon cubes)
I think the amount of bouillon cubes is a tad excessive.
> 1/2 cup white wine
> 1/4 cup milk
Milk is certainly rather unusual in the recipe of this kind, but it
won't change the soup in any drastic way.
> 1/4 pound grated Swiss cheese
> 6 slices French bread (not toasted) -- dried in oven
> 1/2 teaspoon or so thyme
> salt and pepper, to taste
> 2 tablespoons butter -- melted
[snip instructions]
> Comments: If there is one French dish which is popular all over the
> world, in all categories of restaurants, it is onion soup.
This may be true in America, but not in other countries, France not
excluded. In France, it is rare to find this kind of soup in places
other than bistros, bouchons, and occasionally country auberges and
relais routiers (truck stops). And even in those places it is not
really very widely encountered. In some regions, it is nearly
impossible to find. Even in Paris, if you go into a bistro hoping to
get onion soup, chances are you won't find it there. One needs to know
one's way around. In Germany, onion soup can be found only at a few
French places and occasionally in steakhouses, and hardly anywhere else.
I have never once seen it on the menu in Italy, but then I have never
eaten at a French restaurant there.
Victor
Victor Sack
> "Victor Sack" <azaz...@koroviev.de> wrote in message
> > Kent <kh6...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >> We
>
> Mrs. and I
They gave you a marrige licence? Amazing.
> > Besides, which "traditional French Onion Soup"? Panade d'oignons?
> > Velouté d'oignon? Garbure d'oignons? Gratinée lyonnaise? Gratinée des
> > Halles?
>
> There is a "Classic French Onion Soup", as written in "The Larousse
> Gastronomique
> edited by Prosper Montagne, "Modern French Culinary Art", by Henri Paul
> Pellaprat,
> "La Cuisine, by Raymond Oliver, by The Dione Lucas, in "The Dione Lucas book
> of French
> Cooking". This is what Kili asked for. This is what I described below.
> Certainly there are many chef/restaurant variations on the original dish,
> but none of them are the classic "French Onion Soup".
There is no such thing as "French Onion Soup" in France. No amount of
your ignorant bloviatings will change this simple fact. They tend to
speak French in France, for some strange reason, and they do not call
their soups "French" or even "francaises". "Onion soup" in French is
just as generic as in English, so the soups get specific names. You are
obviously monolingual, which only exacerbates your ignorance. That same
Larousse Gastronomique, in original, clearly distinguishes between
various versions, saying that onion soup of this kind is of Lyonnaise
origin and is different from the Parisian gratinée as served in les
Halles and Montmartre bistros.
Did you read those books at all? Can you read and comprehend?
Pellaprat's recipe includes garlic. Do you consider this typical? And
the fact that the garlic is put in at the same time as onions already
means that the onions do not get caramelised, because by the time they
are, garlic will get bitter.
Which Raymond Oliver recipe do you mean? He published two: Soupe à
l'oignon des noctambules and soupe à l'oignon gratinée. He never
published anything called "French Onion Soup". He wrote in French, you
see.
You have been pointed to the research done specifically to educate
monolingual anglophones who have never visited France. It was done by
someone competent and able to read French:
<http://www.hertzmann.com/articles/2001/onion/>.
I can also point you to Jacques Pépin's books in which he tells you that
onion soup as served is France can have crust on top or sometimes it is
just broth. That the onions are sautéed lightly and left in the soup
and that other times they are browned to dark stage, then sligtly singed
with flour, cooked, then pushed through a food mill. That the soup can
be made with chicken stock, a mixture of chicken and beef stock, or with
a mixture of water and stock. That the Lyonnaise version is made with
water rather than stock.
> > You are either lying outright, or your ignorance is even greater than I
> > realised. You've just actually confirmed that you have not had onion
> > soup in France, except perhaps that one time in Paris.
>
> We all eat lunch, Victor.
You have never had onion soup in France. It is obvious. Anyone who had
it a few times would know better than to start your ignorant rantings.
> Victor, you lightly brown, over low heat for 20, to as long as 40 minutes
> until
> the onions become soft, and have a caramel like taste. This is what gives
> the
> soup its unique flavor. Then you add your stock, usually beef stock.
You have never cooked onions, then. When lightly sautéed, as in a lot
of onion soup recipes, they most certainly do not have any caramel
taste. And, again, it is usually not beef stock.
> > Okay, I see that you are not just ignorant and dishonest, you also
> > totally lack any reading comprehension. Have you ever been gainfully
> > employed? If so, I'm genuinely surprised. Hint (of the kind usually
> > reserved for the retarded): The recipe is not Amanda Hesser's; it is
> > Henri Babinski's, AKA Ali-Bab's, recipe, first published in 1907 in
> > France.
>
> TOMATO, TOMATO, TOMATO! THERE AIN'T NO TOMATO IN 99.99% OF "FRENCH
> ONION SOUPS"
You are screaming so hard, you are foaming at the mouth. You do not
know anything about onion soups in France. You know only American
versions, or those adapted for Americans by the editors of French
cookbooks.
> >It was first published in the New York Times by one Craig
> > Claiborne, in 1974. (Needless to say, all of this information is
> > provided in the article.) While I do happen to know something about
> > Claiborne that makes me dislike him intensely, his culinary expertise is
> > not in doubt, I hope.
>
> The Onion Soup recipe in Craig Claiborne's original "New York Times
> Cookbook" published in 1961
> is identical to what I wrote to Kili at the end of this somewhat ludicrious
> thread.
Yes, and Claiborne obviously realised that there is more than one
version of the soup. He also knew who Ali-Bab was.
> > Have you ever heard of La Mère Brazier? (This, BTW, is a rhetorical
> > question.) Bocuse was her pupil, too. You are now very welcome to look
> > up her classical gratinée lyonnaise recipe. Hint: it calls for egg
> > yolks and port wine.
>
> 99+% of French Onion Soup recipes don't call for egg.
Again, you know nothing about onion soups in France. The Lyonnaise
version typically calls for egg yolks and port. Ever read Richard
Olney? No, of course not. And who the hell is la Mère Brazier, let
alone Richard Olney? Right?
> > I do not know why some of you have suddenly started projecting so hard;
> > maybe it is some unfortunate combination of ignorance and narcissism.
> > Victor
>
> Victor, you truly have your head up your inferior orifice, leaving you
> shaped like a tire, rolling down
> a hill, with your arms flailing about to maintain some semblance of
> balance. You not only need
> a high colonic irrigation, you will need a toothbrush and a washcloth when
> you get to the
> bottom of the hill.
I was right, it is a hard case of projecting and ignorance.
Victor
limey
> limey <lime...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Would you be kind enough to critique this recipe?
>
> The recipe, as such, seems to be a perfectly good one. I wouldn't
> call it really French, but it is close enough.
Probably because I added the beef bouillon cubes! Good point - I'll try
cutting back from four to two.
It's a recipe which we enjoy very much. It is also the closest I have
found to the onion soup prepared locally here by a chef from
Alsace-Lorraine, which I found much more delicate in flavour than the
version containing caramelized onions. I also prefer the dried
baguette slices and cheese on top, rather than the gratinée version.
The latter is what is commonly served here.
>
>> Comments: If there is one French dish which is popular all over the
>> world, in all categories of restaurants, it is onion soup.
By way of explanation, the comments in the recipe were inserted by the
author, not I.
>
> This may be true in America, but not in other countries, France not
> excluded. In France, it is rare to find this kind of soup in places
> other than bistros, bouchons, and occasionally country auberges and
> relais routiers (truck stops). And even in those places it is not
> really very widely encountered. In some regions, it is nearly
> impossible to find. Even in Paris, if you go into a bistro hoping to
> get onion soup, chances are you won't find it there. One needs to
> know one's way around.
Victor
I never saw it on the menus in Paris or elsewhere; on the other hand, I
wasn't looking for it, either.
Dora
Morvin Stayner
news:1hvk58e.onuldy1gfcueiN%azaz...@koroviev.de:
> Kent <kh6...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> "Victor Sack" <azaz...@koroviev.de> wrote in message
>> > Kent <kh6...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> We
>>
>> Mrs. and I
>
> They gave you a marrige licence? Amazing.
>
<snip>
> Victor
>
Sounds like a reply by someone who does a hell of a lot more reading than
cooking.
M
Victor Sack
> azaz...@koroviev.de (Victor Sack) wrote in
>
> > Kent <kh6...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >> "Victor Sack" <azaz...@koroviev.de> wrote in message
> >> > Kent <kh6...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> We
> >>
> >> Mrs. and I
> >
> > They gave you a marrige licence? Amazing.
>
> <snip>
>
> > Victor
>
> Sounds like a reply by someone who does a hell of a lot more reading than
> cooking.
>
> M
Sounds like a comment by someone who does neither.
Victor
Victor Sack
> Victor Sack wrote:
> >
> > The recipe, as such, seems to be a perfectly good one. I wouldn't
> > call it really French, but it is close enough.
>
> Probably because I added the beef bouillon cubes! Good point - I'll try
> cutting back from four to two.
It was more because of the milk, actually. As to the bouillon cubes, I
just thought four is a bit too much, for just 3.5 cups of water plus
chicken stock and a bit of wine and milk. Rather too concentrated, I
would say.
> >> Comments: If there is one French dish which is popular all over the
> >> world, in all categories of restaurants, it is onion soup.
>
> By way of explanation, the comments in the recipe were inserted by the
> author, not I.
Yes, that was clear.
> > This may be true in America, but not in other countries, France not
> > excluded. In France, it is rare to find this kind of soup in places
> > other than bistros, bouchons, and occasionally country auberges and
> > relais routiers (truck stops). And even in those places it is not
> > really very widely encountered. In some regions, it is nearly
> > impossible to find. Even in Paris, if you go into a bistro hoping to
> > get onion soup, chances are you won't find it there. One needs to
> > know one's way around.
>
> I never saw it on the menus in Paris or elsewhere; on the other hand, I
> wasn't looking for it, either.
If the recipe is from the time when Les Halles market was still there,
it was indeed possible to find the soup more easily, mostly around the
market. It was indeed kind of fashionable for night revellers,
sometimes clad in dinner jackets, to go there and eat onion soup at 5 in
the morning, rubbing shoulders with blood-stained butchers. Now only a
couple of bistros open around the clock are left in the area, Pied de
Cochon being one of them.
Victor
<RJ>
I don't think I've ever had a GOOD French onion soup in a restaurant !
Bullion cubes and half-cooked onions,
Leftover beef gravy,
"mystery" cheese,
salad croutons floating in some sort of brown gel
I've given up !
The house chili is usually a safer bet.
<rj>
Kent
"kilikini" <kili...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> In a birthday package yesterday, I got two jars of Penzey's bouillion.
> One
> is beef, the other is chicken. I usually make my own stock, but I'm
> thinking French onion soup with the beef.
>
> Yes, I've done the Google, there are a million hits out there. I'm
> looking
> for something specific.
>
> My old friend, Marty, back on Maui (who has since passed) was always
> promising to make me his version of French Onion soup. I vaguely recall
> the
> ingredients, but included were champagne and sherry, maybe, could be
> brandy,
> though. I know you have to use onions, broth, croutons and cheese, but I
> was wondering if anyone had a similar recipe to Marty's that I could try.
>
> I'd be eternally grateful. I want to do it right, rich, and flavorful.
>
> I've never made this soup before, so any ideas are welcome. I'm thinking
> of
> making it this weekend. Help me, please!
>
> kili
>
>
Kili, how did you make your onion soup? How did it turn out?
What would you do differently next time?
After that long thread we all want to know.
I hope it turned out great !
Kent
kilikini
> "kilikini" <kili...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4602a707$0$19409$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>>
> Kili, how did you make your onion soup? How did it turn out?
>
> What would you do differently next time?
>
> After that long thread we all want to know.
>
> I hope it turned out great !
>
> Kent
I loved it and so did my husband. I didn't broil the cheese, because I
didn't have anything that was broil-proof (if you know what I mean) to serve
it in, so it was just melted in the hot broth. I had toasted, roasted
garlic sourdough bread to go with it and it was heavenly. I added
chardonnay and a V.S.O.P. brandy to the broth. It really was good! Thanks
for asking.
kili