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Washington Earthquake
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sf
May 24, 2013, 2:16:51 AM5/24/13
to
We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.
Cheryl
May 24, 2013, 2:32:42 AM5/24/13
to
On 5/24/2013 2:16 AM, sf wrote:
>
> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>
Living in a place where earthquakes are nearly unheard of, our 5.9 or 6
>
> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>
from 2010 I think wasn't anything to laugh at either. The Washington
monument is still being repaired after all of this time.
--
CAPSLOCK�Preventing Login Since 1980.
Julie Bove
May 24, 2013, 2:39:45 AM5/24/13
to
"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:tc1up8tpqvb9l5dkj...@4ax.com...
>
> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the time it was
> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came back on with an
update. But it was breaking news!
sf
May 24, 2013, 3:02:42 AM5/24/13
to
Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know why
that bridge collapsed.
http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
Sorry.
Julie Bove
May 24, 2013, 3:09:35 AM5/24/13
to
news:na3up8hr4o5od1aeo...@4ax.com...
Ah, okay. I just looked an apparently we had tons of little earthquakes
today. Last word I heard on the bridge is that maybe a big rig hit it.
They said it was built in 1955 and was listed as an obsolete bridge. But
it's obviously not obsolete because it is the main way in and out of that
area. I wonder what people will do in the morning?
today. Last word I heard on the bridge is that maybe a big rig hit it.
They said it was built in 1955 and was listed as an obsolete bridge. But
it's obviously not obsolete because it is the main way in and out of that
area. I wonder what people will do in the morning?
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 8:44:47 AM5/24/13
to
news:na3up8hr4o5od1aeo...@4ax.com...
It collapsed because it was old and rusty and an accident waiting to happen.
We don't do infrastructure in this country - we cannot afford it because
we're broke and spending money to fix bridges is sosheelizm.
We don't do infrastructure in this country - we cannot afford it because
we're broke and spending money to fix bridges is sosheelizm.
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 9:03:20 AM5/24/13
to
"Julie Bove" <juli...@frontier.com> wrote in message
news:knn3fi$d89$1...@dont-email.me...
It is typical of most bridges in this country - falling apart from
disrepair. All bridges defy gravity but in the end gravity wins if they are
not maintained properly. And it will keep getting worse until a collapse
kills a few hundred people. The only reason their is no outrage over this
on is because somehow nobody died. Day by day we descend further into third
world status.
Dave Smith
May 24, 2013, 9:04:59 AM5/24/13
to
On 24/05/2013 2:16 AM, sf wrote:
>
> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>
Apparently unrelated to the earthquake. The linked report says that it
>
> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>
appears than an oversized truck had clipped a beam.
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 9:09:49 AM5/24/13
to
"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:qAJnt.103530$8u7....@fed10.iad...
Pico Rico
May 24, 2013, 9:36:47 AM5/24/13
to
"Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:knnn48$d77$1...@dont-email.me...
thus discouraging them to work and be productive, and setting the example
for others not to bother, so there is no money to pay for the things the
government is actually there to do - like take care of major infrastructure.
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 9:41:45 AM5/24/13
to
"Pico Rico" <Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote in message
news:knnqda$83m$1...@news.mixmin.net...
welfare. There is plenty of money to go around but spending it on roads and
bridges just supports all those union construction workers plus somewhere in
the mix somebody will get a pension too.
Pico Rico
May 24, 2013, 9:43:45 AM5/24/13
to
news:knnqf2$1ns$1...@dont-email.me...
corporate welfare falls into the category of paying people who don't work.
And I doubt that it dwarfs the noncorporate welfare, in all its facets, but
no need to quibble.
And I doubt that it dwarfs the noncorporate welfare, in all its facets, but
no need to quibble.
Nancy Young
May 24, 2013, 9:47:10 AM5/24/13
to
On 5/24/2013 3:02 AM, sf wrote:
> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know why
> that bridge collapsed.
> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
> Sorry.
>
A truck hit it.
> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know why
> that bridge collapsed.
> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
> Sorry.
>
nancy
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 9:48:57 AM5/24/13
to
news:knnqqc$8q1$1...@news.mixmin.net...
Doubt it all you want but welfare recipients, WICA moms and people on
unemployment insurance didn't bring that bridge down
unemployment insurance didn't bring that bridge down
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 9:51:09 AM5/24/13
to
"Nancy Young" <rjynly...@vverizon.net> wrote in message
news:519f6f62$0$32510$862e...@ngroups.net...
loaded. That's 40 tons. What is that bridge made of, aluminum foil and
popsicle sticks?
Janet Bostwick
May 24, 2013, 9:59:27 AM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 06:03:20 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
wrote:
snip
extremists elected to our federal government don't care and are able
to choke any attempt to mitigate the awful condition of our
infrastructure.
Janet US
wrote:
snip
>
>No big rig hit it. Even if it did it's supposed to be stronger than that.
>It is typical of most bridges in this country - falling apart from
>disrepair. All bridges defy gravity but in the end gravity wins if they are
>not maintained properly. And it will keep getting worse until a collapse
>kills a few hundred people. The only reason their is no outrage over this
>on is because somehow nobody died. Day by day we descend further into third
>world status.
>
>
You can have all the outrage you want and it will do no good. The
>No big rig hit it. Even if it did it's supposed to be stronger than that.
>It is typical of most bridges in this country - falling apart from
>disrepair. All bridges defy gravity but in the end gravity wins if they are
>not maintained properly. And it will keep getting worse until a collapse
>kills a few hundred people. The only reason their is no outrage over this
>on is because somehow nobody died. Day by day we descend further into third
>world status.
>
>
extremists elected to our federal government don't care and are able
to choke any attempt to mitigate the awful condition of our
infrastructure.
Janet US
Pico Rico
May 24, 2013, 10:06:55 AM5/24/13
to
news:knnqsi$4b7$1...@dont-email.me...
add in the other noncorporate welfare - you left out a lot. Add in the
corporate welfare. There would have been plenty of money to keep that bridge
in repair. No doubt.
corporate welfare. There would have been plenty of money to keep that bridge
in repair. No doubt.
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 10:07:47 AM5/24/13
to
"Janet Bostwick" <nos...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:e9sup81bampemuvqb...@4ax.com...
you many thousands USED by the free market but I defy anyone to show me one
built by it. And here's another thing to the Tea Party patriots - that
downed bridge will now cost more to replace and cost more in economic loss
that maintaining it ever would have.
Pico Rico
May 24, 2013, 10:11:21 AM5/24/13
to
"Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:knnrvs$apk$1...@dont-email.me...
infrastructure? I haven't noticed that, but would like to read if they
exist. Thanks.
Janet Bostwick
May 24, 2013, 10:11:15 AM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 05:44:47 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
wrote:
snip
>
Greece is giving their billionaires a 70% tax rate and Italian
billionaires are getting a 100% tax rate. Compared to that, a 10%
increase doesn't seem too bad.
Janet US
wrote:
snip
>
>It collapsed because it was old and rusty and an accident waiting to happen.
>We don't do infrastructure in this country - we cannot afford it because
>we're broke and spending money to fix bridges is sosheelizm.
>
Have you seen the solution to this problem some countries have made?
>We don't do infrastructure in this country - we cannot afford it because
>we're broke and spending money to fix bridges is sosheelizm.
>
Greece is giving their billionaires a 70% tax rate and Italian
billionaires are getting a 100% tax rate. Compared to that, a 10%
increase doesn't seem too bad.
Janet US
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 10:14:20 AM5/24/13
to
news:knns5s$alb$1...@news.mixmin.net...
There is plenty of money to not only fix every bridge in this country but to
replace many of them. And mostr are more than 30 years old, too. And our
entire infrastructre gets an F- from the Society of Civil Engineers. We
don't have to make choices between food stamps and bridge maintenance. We
can do both. We just choose to spend our money on little things like 2
trillion dollar wars or a military that spends more money in one year than
the next 5 richest countries combined. And then we let people like Mitt
Romney pay 12% in taxes while his maid pays 36%.
replace many of them. And mostr are more than 30 years old, too. And our
entire infrastructre gets an F- from the Society of Civil Engineers. We
don't have to make choices between food stamps and bridge maintenance. We
can do both. We just choose to spend our money on little things like 2
trillion dollar wars or a military that spends more money in one year than
the next 5 richest countries combined. And then we let people like Mitt
Romney pay 12% in taxes while his maid pays 36%.
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 10:18:47 AM5/24/13
to
news:o0tup8hqbvv8glvea...@4ax.com...
The plan was to return taxes on the top 2% to pre-2000 levels. So that
would have been just 4% more. The House voted 4 times to pass the "Ryan
Budget" which reduces capital gains to 7% and the top statutory rate on the
rich to 20%. That would place the effective rate at less than 10% for those
making more than a million dollars a year.
But some would have us believe a person getting one meal a day with food
stamps is somehow the real problem.
would have been just 4% more. The House voted 4 times to pass the "Ryan
Budget" which reduces capital gains to 7% and the top statutory rate on the
rich to 20%. That would place the effective rate at less than 10% for those
making more than a million dollars a year.
But some would have us believe a person getting one meal a day with food
stamps is somehow the real problem.
Message has been deleted
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 10:27:12 AM5/24/13
to
news:knnse4$auv$1...@news.mixmin.net...
Sure do. The TP has defeated every single infrastrure bill in the last 5
years. Every ... single ... one. They have called it nothing more than a
gift to organized labor. New Jersey lost a project that would have expanded
there only corridor into New York City because Christie was courting the Tea
Party blessing over "wasteful government spending." All of it completely
IGNORING the economic stimulus such a project would have immediately and for
decades thereafter.
Tea Party types were responsible for denying money to strengthen the levys
in New Orleans because "we can't afford any more wasteful gubmint spending."
How'd that work out? BTW those same people now want to axe funding for our
advanced storm warning system as well as NOAA and FEMA.
The Tea Party was founded by the Koch Brothers in early 2000 and was a joint
effort between themselves and the Heritage Foundation. Anyone not stinking
rich and declaring fealty to their cause is a fool of the highest order.
years. Every ... single ... one. They have called it nothing more than a
gift to organized labor. New Jersey lost a project that would have expanded
there only corridor into New York City because Christie was courting the Tea
Party blessing over "wasteful government spending." All of it completely
IGNORING the economic stimulus such a project would have immediately and for
decades thereafter.
Tea Party types were responsible for denying money to strengthen the levys
in New Orleans because "we can't afford any more wasteful gubmint spending."
How'd that work out? BTW those same people now want to axe funding for our
advanced storm warning system as well as NOAA and FEMA.
The Tea Party was founded by the Koch Brothers in early 2000 and was a joint
effort between themselves and the Heritage Foundation. Anyone not stinking
rich and declaring fealty to their cause is a fool of the highest order.
George Leppla
May 24, 2013, 10:32:50 AM5/24/13
to
On 5/24/2013 8:36 AM, Pico Rico wrote:
> we keep handing money to people who don't work, and penalizing those who do
> thus discouraging them to work and be productive, and setting the example
> for others not to bother, so there is no money to pay for the things the
> government is actually there to do - like take care of major infrastructure.
Do some research and you will find that the majority of people who
> we keep handing money to people who don't work, and penalizing those who do
> thus discouraging them to work and be productive, and setting the example
> for others not to bother, so there is no money to pay for the things the
> government is actually there to do - like take care of major infrastructure.
receive the kind of money you talk about are elderly or children.
You want money for infrastructure? Stop fighting wars like Iraq.
Imagine all the good we could have done at home with education,
infrastructure, health, etc with the trillion we spent over there.
Our defense budget is way out of proportion compared to the rest of the
world. There is nothing in the Constitution about spreading democracy
throughout the world or being the policeman for the entire planet.
But it is easier to talk about taking money away from entitlement
programs and "unpatriotic" to talk about military cuts.
George L
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 10:34:38 AM5/24/13
to
"l not -l" <lal...@cujo.com> wrote in message
news:knnssp$g28$1...@dont-email.me...
> support structure.
> --
> Change Cujo to Juno in email address.
>
> Bad decisions make good stories.
Have a close look at the bridge pictures. Here's a good one.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/skagit-river-bridge-collapses_n_3329496.html
OK, notice on many joints how they are painted red? Very fresh red mind
you. Know what that is? It means those are areas that were inspected and
found to be deficient structurally - meaning they were rusted out. That
bridge was inspected and recently and you can see those paint marks
everywhere on it. No truck should have been able to bring down an entire
bridge all by itself.
I smell a rat and a coverup.
Jim Elbrecht
May 24, 2013, 10:40:01 AM5/24/13
to
"l not -l" <lal...@cujo.com> wrote:
-snip-
after they investigate it a bit.
I'll be surprised if it isn't scouring below the abutments, or a shift
from the earth moving-- or a combination.
Jim
-snip-
>> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
>> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
>> Sorry.
>>
>> --
>> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
>> Sorry.
>>
>> --
>CBS This Morning reported that the cause was an oversize truck hitting a
>support structure.
Call me a fuddy-duddy - But I'll wait to see what the engineers say
>support structure.
after they investigate it a bit.
I'll be surprised if it isn't scouring below the abutments, or a shift
from the earth moving-- or a combination.
Jim
Helpful person
May 24, 2013, 10:45:36 AM5/24/13
to
On May 24, 9:09 am, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
> "Dave Smith" <adavid.sm...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
the poor country of the "western" world.
http://www.richardfisher.com
> "Dave Smith" <adavid.sm...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:qAJnt.103530$8u7....@fed10.iad...
>
> > On 24/05/2013 2:16 AM, sf wrote:
>
> >> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
> >> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
> >>http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-send...
> news:qAJnt.103530$8u7....@fed10.iad...
>
> > On 24/05/2013 2:16 AM, sf wrote:
>
> >> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
> >> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>
> > Apparently unrelated to the earthquake. The linked report says that it
> > appears than an oversized truck had clipped a beam.
>
> And that's supposed to bring down a bridge that carries 4 lanes of traffic?
Yes, in the US with our decaying infrastructure. We are fast becoming
> > Apparently unrelated to the earthquake. The linked report says that it
> > appears than an oversized truck had clipped a beam.
>
> And that's supposed to bring down a bridge that carries 4 lanes of traffic?
the poor country of the "western" world.
http://www.richardfisher.com
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 10:48:03 AM5/24/13
to
"Jim Elbrecht" <elbr...@email.com> wrote in message
news:bouup8d1jqmjtemf0...@4ax.com...
civil engineer pleading for the bridge to be shut down and fixed. with words
like "imminent danger" and "extreme likelhood of collapse."
sf
May 24, 2013, 10:48:48 AM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 09:32:50 -0500, George Leppla
<geo...@cruisemaster.com> wrote:
> Our defense budget is way out of proportion compared to the rest of the
> world. There is nothing in the Constitution about spreading democracy
> throughout the world or being the policeman for the entire planet.
>
> But it is easier to talk about taking money away from entitlement
> programs and "unpatriotic" to talk about military cuts.
What's totally crazy is the military doesn't even *want* all the money
<geo...@cruisemaster.com> wrote:
> Our defense budget is way out of proportion compared to the rest of the
> world. There is nothing in the Constitution about spreading democracy
> throughout the world or being the policeman for the entire planet.
>
> But it is easier to talk about taking money away from entitlement
> programs and "unpatriotic" to talk about military cuts.
we're shoveling their way, but we're doing it anyway and against their
wishes.
--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 10:52:53 AM5/24/13
to
news:9cvup8hjmmvsloici...@4ax.com...
It's crazy working for the DOD, which I did in 1984. Our department was on
a shoestring budget despite Reagan's vastly increased defense spewnding.
Our offie space was crumbling and literally the paint was peeling off the
walls. Our desks were pre-WWII. We could not get a dime for repairs. Yet
the DOD blows billions on useless crap if it means some defense contractor
gets a juicy purchase order.
a shoestring budget despite Reagan's vastly increased defense spewnding.
Our offie space was crumbling and literally the paint was peeling off the
walls. Our desks were pre-WWII. We could not get a dime for repairs. Yet
the DOD blows billions on useless crap if it means some defense contractor
gets a juicy purchase order.
sf
May 24, 2013, 10:58:34 AM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:34:38 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
wrote:
> Have a close look at the bridge pictures. Here's a good one.
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/skagit-river-bridge-collapses_n_3329496.html
>
> OK, notice on many joints how they are painted red? Very fresh red mind
> you. Know what that is? It means those are areas that were inspected and
> found to be deficient structurally - meaning they were rusted out. That
> bridge was inspected and recently and you can see those paint marks
> everywhere on it. No truck should have been able to bring down an entire
> bridge all by itself.
>
> I smell a rat and a coverup.
The truck was probably the straw that broke the camel's back (so to
speak).
wrote:
> Have a close look at the bridge pictures. Here's a good one.
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/skagit-river-bridge-collapses_n_3329496.html
>
> OK, notice on many joints how they are painted red? Very fresh red mind
> you. Know what that is? It means those are areas that were inspected and
> found to be deficient structurally - meaning they were rusted out. That
> bridge was inspected and recently and you can see those paint marks
> everywhere on it. No truck should have been able to bring down an entire
> bridge all by itself.
>
> I smell a rat and a coverup.
speak).
sf
May 24, 2013, 11:02:16 AM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:59:27 -0600, Janet Bostwick
<nos...@cableone.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 06:03:20 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
> wrote:
> snip
> >
<nos...@cableone.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 06:03:20 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
> wrote:
> snip
> >
> >Day by day we descend further into third world status.
> >
> >
> You can have all the outrage you want and it will do no good. The
> extremists elected to our federal government don't care and are able
> to choke any attempt to mitigate the awful condition of our
> infrastructure.
Thank you. It won't change until they are voted out of office, but
> >
> >
> You can have all the outrage you want and it will do no good. The
> extremists elected to our federal government don't care and are able
> to choke any attempt to mitigate the awful condition of our
> infrastructure.
their constituents are brainwashed into thinking that government is
the enemy and so afraid of their own shadow that they have to carry
guns around for self protection - so fat chance we'll see any
significant changes in 2014 other than the country getting even more
conservative.
Pete C.
May 24, 2013, 11:12:40 AM5/24/13
to
"Paul M. Cook" wrote:
>
> "Julie Bove" <juli...@frontier.com> wrote in message
> news:knn3fi$d89$1...@dont-email.me...
> > news:na3up8hr4o5od1aeo...@4ax.com...
> >>> "sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:tc1up8tpqvb9l5dkj...@4ax.com...
> >>> >
> >>> > We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
> >>> > bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
> >>> > We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
> >>> > bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
> >>> > http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
> >>>
> >>> Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the time it
> >>> was
> >>> on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came back on
> >>> with an
> >>> update. But it was breaking news!
> >>>
> >> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
> >> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know why
> >> that bridge collapsed.
> >>>
> >>> Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the time it
> >>> was
> >>> on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came back on
> >>> with an
> >>> update. But it was breaking news!
> >>>
> >> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
> >> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know why
> >> that bridge collapsed.
> >> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
> >> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
> >> Sorry.
> >
> > Ah, okay. I just looked an apparently we had tons of little earthquakes
> >> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
> >> Sorry.
> >
> > today. Last word I heard on the bridge is that maybe a big rig hit it.
> > They said it was built in 1955 and was listed as an obsolete bridge. But
> > it's obviously not obsolete because it is the main way in and out of that
> > area. I wonder what people will do in the morning?
>
> No big rig hit it. Even if it did it's supposed to be stronger than that.
> It is typical of most bridges in this country - falling apart from
> disrepair. All bridges defy gravity but in the end gravity wins if they are
> not maintained properly. And it will keep getting worse until a collapse
> kills a few hundred people. The only reason their is no outrage over this
> on is because somehow nobody died. Day by day we descend further into third
> No big rig hit it. Even if it did it's supposed to be stronger than that.
> It is typical of most bridges in this country - falling apart from
> disrepair. All bridges defy gravity but in the end gravity wins if they are
> not maintained properly. And it will keep getting worse until a collapse
> kills a few hundred people. The only reason their is no outrage over this
> world status.
Eye witness reports indicate an oversized load on a semi did indeed
strike the "structurally deficient" bridge immediately prior to it's
collapse. Why the escort vehicle ahead of the semi didn't detect the
clearance issue and call for a stop is probably a bigger question.
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 11:02:56 AM5/24/13
to
news:8vvup891osqoq749s...@4ax.com...
If so then this is criminal negligence of the highest order. That bridge
should not have been open to buggies let alone cars and semis.
should not have been open to buggies let alone cars and semis.
Pete C.
May 24, 2013, 11:17:34 AM5/24/13
to
hope for the future since the only two real political parties are both
overrun with extremists and their brainwashed constituents keep blindly
voting for them, content to call the other side names rather than to
apply critical thinking to the actual issues and facts. There seems
little hope of getting any sane, intelligent, centrist candidates that
can actually tackle issues constructively any time soon.
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 11:23:39 AM5/24/13
to
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote in message
news:519f835f$0$24854$a826...@newsreader.readnews.com...
outdated it needed to be replaced rather than repaired for it to be
compatible with the growth in demand. The fact it was not declared
strucurally deficient is the crime. No truck should have been able to bring
down that bridge even if it backed up and hit the bridge repeatedly.
sf
May 24, 2013, 11:32:10 AM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:52:53 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
wrote:
>
It's really crazy how things work, but it illustrates what the reality
is. General welfare (as in "well-being "), no... patronage, yes.
wrote:
>
is. General welfare (as in "well-being "), no... patronage, yes.
sf
May 24, 2013, 11:42:12 AM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 08:02:56 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
looking. To my untrained eye, it looks like it was constructed with
materials from an Erector Set.
Honestly, I don't see how a truck could have taken it down. The span
that collapsed is over water. The part that goes over another road
(where a truck could have damaged it) is still standing and two spans
away from the one that collapsed.
wrote:
>
> "sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:8vvup891osqoq749s...@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:34:38 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Have a close look at the bridge pictures. Here's a good one.
> >>
> >> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/skagit-river-bridge-collapses_n_3329496.html
> >>
> >> OK, notice on many joints how they are painted red? Very fresh red mind
> >> you. Know what that is? It means those are areas that were inspected
> >> and
> >> found to be deficient structurally - meaning they were rusted out. That
> >> bridge was inspected and recently and you can see those paint marks
> >> everywhere on it. No truck should have been able to bring down an entire
> >> bridge all by itself.
> >>
> >> I smell a rat and a coverup.
> >
> > The truck was probably the straw that broke the camel's back (so to
> > speak).
>
>
> If so then this is criminal negligence of the highest order. That bridge
> should not have been open to buggies let alone cars and semis.
>
I have no idea why it was still in use. That thing is rickety
>
> "sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:8vvup891osqoq749s...@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:34:38 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Have a close look at the bridge pictures. Here's a good one.
> >>
> >> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/skagit-river-bridge-collapses_n_3329496.html
> >>
> >> OK, notice on many joints how they are painted red? Very fresh red mind
> >> you. Know what that is? It means those are areas that were inspected
> >> and
> >> found to be deficient structurally - meaning they were rusted out. That
> >> bridge was inspected and recently and you can see those paint marks
> >> everywhere on it. No truck should have been able to bring down an entire
> >> bridge all by itself.
> >>
> >> I smell a rat and a coverup.
> >
> > The truck was probably the straw that broke the camel's back (so to
> > speak).
>
>
> If so then this is criminal negligence of the highest order. That bridge
> should not have been open to buggies let alone cars and semis.
>
looking. To my untrained eye, it looks like it was constructed with
materials from an Erector Set.
Honestly, I don't see how a truck could have taken it down. The span
that collapsed is over water. The part that goes over another road
(where a truck could have damaged it) is still standing and two spans
away from the one that collapsed.
merryb
May 24, 2013, 11:44:43 AM5/24/13
to
On May 23, 11:16 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-send...
> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
>
> --
> Food is an important part of a balanced diet.
No earthquake here- it was an oversized truck.
> --
> Food is an important part of a balanced diet.
sf
May 24, 2013, 11:58:19 AM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 08:44:43 -0700 (PDT), merryb <msg...@juno.com>
wrote:
Sorry, I'm not buying that story. A bridge support collapsed and
caused the span to fall. You only need to look at the pictures to see
draw that conclusion. The collapsed span is completely over water,
which means the truck was *on* the bridge, not under it.
wrote:
caused the span to fall. You only need to look at the pictures to see
draw that conclusion. The collapsed span is completely over water,
which means the truck was *on* the bridge, not under it.
Cheri
May 24, 2013, 12:00:31 PM5/24/13
to
"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:s33vp853brali8ec2...@4ax.com...
Cheri
merryb
May 24, 2013, 12:22:36 PM5/24/13
to
left lane.
Dave Smith
May 24, 2013, 1:04:11 PM5/24/13
to
On 24/05/2013 9:09 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:qAJnt.103530$8u7....@fed10.iad...
hit the bridge causing it to collapse or if the bridge struck the truck
as it was falling.
> "Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:qAJnt.103530$8u7....@fed10.iad...
>> On 24/05/2013 2:16 AM, sf wrote:
>>>
>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
>>> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>>
>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
>>> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>>>
>> Apparently unrelated to the earthquake. The linked report says that it
>> appears than an oversized truck had clipped a beam.
>
> And that's supposed to bring down a bridge that carries 4 lanes of traffic?
Another report indicated there was some question as to whether the truck
>> Apparently unrelated to the earthquake. The linked report says that it
>> appears than an oversized truck had clipped a beam.
>
> And that's supposed to bring down a bridge that carries 4 lanes of traffic?
hit the bridge causing it to collapse or if the bridge struck the truck
as it was falling.
Dave Smith
May 24, 2013, 1:06:47 PM5/24/13
to
On 24/05/2013 10:48 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>> I'll be surprised if it isn't scouring below the abutments, or a shift
>> from the earth moving-- or a combination.
>>
>
> I'll weager real money that buried in some politico's desk is a memo by a
> civil engineer pleading for the bridge to be shut down and fixed. with words
> like "imminent danger" and "extreme likelhood of collapse."
>
>
Year ago I worked on a road crew and was working on the safety and lane
>> I'll be surprised if it isn't scouring below the abutments, or a shift
>> from the earth moving-- or a combination.
>>
>
> I'll weager real money that buried in some politico's desk is a memo by a
> civil engineer pleading for the bridge to be shut down and fixed. with words
> like "imminent danger" and "extreme likelhood of collapse."
>
>
closures for the bridge inspection crews. The engineer in heading the
crew told me he had inspected that bridge four times over the last 10
years and each time he had recommended that it be replace. It was at
least another 10 years before it was replaced.
Dave Smith
May 24, 2013, 1:29:17 PM5/24/13
to
could cause a bridge to collapse, or that it would not have given out
almost immediately after contact was made.
FWIW, the movement of overdimensional vehicles and loads is is done by
permits and is strictly monitored. Anything over the normal height and
width limits has to have a permit when you get over some limits there a
a lot of conditions they have to abide by.
The latest report I read says that the vehicle hit an overhead support.
It seems odd that he would that he would get all the way to the end of
the bridge before hitting something, considering that it should have
been the same height as all the other parts.
Pico Rico
May 24, 2013, 1:34:52 PM5/24/13
to
news:knnt49$hg9$1...@dont-email.me...
I am not sure those are examples that fit your argument. Why should WE be
spending money on NOLA levies? Those people should MOVE to higher ground.
If the bill in N.J. had measures to eliminate the sops to organized labor,
maybe (not sure) there would have been a change in attitude.
spending money on NOLA levies? Those people should MOVE to higher ground.
If the bill in N.J. had measures to eliminate the sops to organized labor,
maybe (not sure) there would have been a change in attitude.
Nunya Bidnits
May 24, 2013, 1:36:52 PM5/24/13
to
> news:knnqda$83m$1...@news.mixmin.net...
>> news:knnn48$d77$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> happen. We don't do infrastructure in this country - we cannot
>>> afford it because we're broke and spending money to fix bridges is
>>> sosheelizm.
> social welfare. There is plenty of money to go around but spending
> it on roads and bridges just supports all those union construction
> workers plus somewhere in the mix somebody will get a pension too.
And when massive corps like GE pay virtually nothing in taxes, that's
corporate welfare too. But they disingenuously whine that they have to go
offshore because the corprate tax rate is to high when all they are doing is
cheating. What a load of dishonest BS. From my POV, they should either have
to start paying their fair share or quit doing business here entirely and
get the hell out.
>> news:knnn48$d77$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> news:na3up8hr4o5od1aeo...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 23:39:45 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>>> <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 23:39:45 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>>> <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:tc1up8tpqvb9l5dkj...@4ax.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7...
>>>>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7...
>>>>>> but a bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>>>>>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the
>>>>> time it was
>>>>> on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came back
>>>>> on with an
>>>>> update. But it was breaking news!
>>>>>
>>>> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
>>>> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know
>>>> why that bridge collapsed.
>>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
>>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
>>>> Sorry.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It collapsed because it was old and rusty and an accident waiting to
>>>>>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the
>>>>> time it was
>>>>> on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came back
>>>>> on with an
>>>>> update. But it was breaking news!
>>>>>
>>>> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
>>>> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know
>>>> why that bridge collapsed.
>>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
>>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
>>>> Sorry.
>>>>
>>>
>>> happen. We don't do infrastructure in this country - we cannot
>>> afford it because we're broke and spending money to fix bridges is
>>> sosheelizm.
>>
>> we keep handing money to people who don't work, and penalizing those
>> who do thus discouraging them to work and be productive, and setting
>> the example for others not to bother, so there is no money to pay
>> for the things the government is actually there to do - like take
>> care of major infrastructure.
>
> The money we pay out in cortporate welfare dwarfs what we pay in
>> we keep handing money to people who don't work, and penalizing those
>> who do thus discouraging them to work and be productive, and setting
>> the example for others not to bother, so there is no money to pay
>> for the things the government is actually there to do - like take
>> care of major infrastructure.
>
> social welfare. There is plenty of money to go around but spending
> it on roads and bridges just supports all those union construction
> workers plus somewhere in the mix somebody will get a pension too.
And when massive corps like GE pay virtually nothing in taxes, that's
corporate welfare too. But they disingenuously whine that they have to go
offshore because the corprate tax rate is to high when all they are doing is
cheating. What a load of dishonest BS. From my POV, they should either have
to start paying their fair share or quit doing business here entirely and
get the hell out.
Nunya Bidnits
May 24, 2013, 1:37:54 PM5/24/13
to
Pico Rico <Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote:
> corporate welfare falls into the category of paying people who don't
> work.
ROTFL! You're badly misinformed.
> corporate welfare falls into the category of paying people who don't
> work.
ROTFL! You're badly misinformed.
Nunya Bidnits
May 24, 2013, 1:40:51 PM5/24/13
to
> news:knns5s$alb$1...@news.mixmin.net...
>> news:knnqsi$4b7$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> news:knnqqc$8q1$1...@news.mixmin.net...
>>>> news:knnqf2$1ns$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> in all its facets, but no need to quibble.
>>>
>>> Doubt it all you want but welfare recipients, WICA moms and people
>>> on unemployment insurance didn't bring that bridge down
>>>
>>
>> add in the other noncorporate welfare - you left out a lot. Add in
>> the corporate welfare. There would have been plenty of money to keep
>> that bridge in repair. No doubt.
>
>
> There is plenty of money to not only fix every bridge in this country
> but to replace many of them. And mostr are more than 30 years old,
> too. And our entire infrastructre gets an F- from the Society of
> Civil Engineers. We don't have to make choices between food stamps
> and bridge maintenance. We can do both. We just choose to spend our
> money on little things like 2 trillion dollar wars or a military that
> spends more money in one year than the next 5 richest countries
> combined. And then we let people like Mitt Romney pay 12% in taxes
> while his maid pays 36%.
But Romney's an important wealthy man who deserves better than the little
people who actually work for a living.
>> news:knnqsi$4b7$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> news:knnqqc$8q1$1...@news.mixmin.net...
>>>> news:knnqf2$1ns$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> corporate welfare falls into the category of paying people who
>>>> don't work. And I doubt that it dwarfs the noncorporate welfare,
>>>> in all its facets, but no need to quibble.
>>>
>>> Doubt it all you want but welfare recipients, WICA moms and people
>>> on unemployment insurance didn't bring that bridge down
>>>
>>
>> add in the other noncorporate welfare - you left out a lot. Add in
>> the corporate welfare. There would have been plenty of money to keep
>> that bridge in repair. No doubt.
>
>
> There is plenty of money to not only fix every bridge in this country
> but to replace many of them. And mostr are more than 30 years old,
> too. And our entire infrastructre gets an F- from the Society of
> Civil Engineers. We don't have to make choices between food stamps
> and bridge maintenance. We can do both. We just choose to spend our
> money on little things like 2 trillion dollar wars or a military that
> spends more money in one year than the next 5 richest countries
> combined. And then we let people like Mitt Romney pay 12% in taxes
> while his maid pays 36%.
But Romney's an important wealthy man who deserves better than the little
people who actually work for a living.
Nunya Bidnits
May 24, 2013, 1:42:25 PM5/24/13
to
corporations go offshore, don't pay their fair share of taxes, hire
offshore, encourage lack of education, cheat localities out of fair taxes in
exchange for the opportunity to do business, and won't pay a decent wage to
anybody, thus dragging down the entire economic system in a concerted effort
to cheat, disenfranchise, and eliminate the middle class (IOW, people who
made a decent living wage and provided the financial backbone of our
society). Corporate thieves want an impoverished underclass, an uberclass,
and nobody in between to interfere with their obscene salaries and profits.
In other words, they want to turn the US into an economically depressed
third world country they can exploit. And they whine and scream about
nonexistent socialism whenever someone tries to correct their malgnant
debilitating foreign-country-hugging ways. These corps should not even be
allowed to fly the US flag over their headquarters because they are enemies
of the state.
Janet Bostwick
May 24, 2013, 3:13:09 PM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 08:02:56 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
winners are the lawyers and the losers are the public and the fall guy
on the bottom? That's how we keep the focus off of who's bad at their
job in Washington. We have another investigation. By Golly, my
congressman is sure doing his job, he's heading another investigation.
Bah!
Janet US
wrote:
>
>"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
>news:8vvup891osqoq749s...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:34:38 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Have a close look at the bridge pictures. Here's a good one.
>>>
>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/skagit-river-bridge-collapses_n_3329496.html
>>>
>>> OK, notice on many joints how they are painted red? Very fresh red mind
>>> you. Know what that is? It means those are areas that were inspected
>>> and
>>> found to be deficient structurally - meaning they were rusted out. That
>>> bridge was inspected and recently and you can see those paint marks
>>> everywhere on it. No truck should have been able to bring down an entire
>>> bridge all by itself.
>>>
>>> I smell a rat and a coverup.
>>
>> The truck was probably the straw that broke the camel's back (so to
>> speak).
>
>
>If so then this is criminal negligence of the highest order. That bridge
>should not have been open to buggies let alone cars and semis.
>
>
>
So, we're going to have another expensive investigation where the
>
>"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
>news:8vvup891osqoq749s...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:34:38 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Have a close look at the bridge pictures. Here's a good one.
>>>
>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/skagit-river-bridge-collapses_n_3329496.html
>>>
>>> OK, notice on many joints how they are painted red? Very fresh red mind
>>> you. Know what that is? It means those are areas that were inspected
>>> and
>>> found to be deficient structurally - meaning they were rusted out. That
>>> bridge was inspected and recently and you can see those paint marks
>>> everywhere on it. No truck should have been able to bring down an entire
>>> bridge all by itself.
>>>
>>> I smell a rat and a coverup.
>>
>> The truck was probably the straw that broke the camel's back (so to
>> speak).
>
>
>If so then this is criminal negligence of the highest order. That bridge
>should not have been open to buggies let alone cars and semis.
>
>
>
winners are the lawyers and the losers are the public and the fall guy
on the bottom? That's how we keep the focus off of who's bad at their
job in Washington. We have another investigation. By Golly, my
congressman is sure doing his job, he's heading another investigation.
Bah!
Janet US
sf
May 24, 2013, 3:41:45 PM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 09:22:36 -0700 (PDT), merryb <msg...@juno.com>
I still don't see what that had to do with the supporting structure
underneath the bridge.
underneath the bridge.
Dave Smith
May 24, 2013, 4:09:30 PM5/24/13
to
On 24/05/2013 3:41 PM, sf wrote:
>>
>> The truck was in the right lane, which has a lower clearance than the
>> left lane.
>
> I still don't see what that had to do with the supporting structure
> underneath the bridge.
>
It has a lot to do with the truss design of the bridge. The
>>
>> The truck was in the right lane, which has a lower clearance than the
>> left lane.
>
> I still don't see what that had to do with the supporting structure
> underneath the bridge.
>
superstructure helps to support the deck below it.
But still... for part of the load to have hit the beam with very little
damage to the load itself, but to cause enough damage to the structure
that it failed???? Hell I have seen a lot of bridges damaged over the
years, and they didn't fail. We had a propane tanker crash into a bridge
and burn and the bridge did not fail. I was once behind a truck hauling
a backhoe at 60 mph and the rear boom hit the bridge deck hard enough to
knock the whole backhoe boom off and it knocked a huge chunk of concrete
off the bridge, and it didn't fail. I have seen bridges where the were
damage from the top right down through the re-bars, and just a few feet
down there was damage from the bottom up through the re-bars and, though
that was a failure, it was not a catastrophic one.
In order for a vehicle load to have done enough damage to take down a
section of the bridge there had to have been something drastically wrong
with it. For that to have happened without a lot more damage to the load
just means it was that much worse.
Bear in mind that loads are bound to trucks with chains. One could
reasoanbly expect the chains to fail before a bridge would collapse.
sf
May 24, 2013, 4:19:45 PM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 09:00:31 -0700, "Cheri" <che...@newsguy.com>
wrote:
> "sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:s33vp853brali8ec2...@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 24 May 2013 08:44:43 -0700 (PDT), merryb <msg...@juno.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On May 23, 11:16 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >> > We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
> >> > bridge collapsed and that's not
> >> > funny.http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-send...
> >> >
> >>
*earthquake* was on the upper deck, not the lower one.
One of the concrete supports that held the Washington bridge above
water simply isn't there anymore and a truck hitting something above
it has nothing to do with that. What's very clear from looking at
images of the Washington bridge is that it simply FELL down. Too bad
they don't have an earthquake to blame. I would have bought that
story.
wrote:
> "sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:s33vp853brali8ec2...@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 24 May 2013 08:44:43 -0700 (PDT), merryb <msg...@juno.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On May 23, 11:16 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >> > We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
> >> > bridge collapsed and that's not
> >> > funny.http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-send...
> >> >
> >>
> >> No earthquake here- it was an oversized truck.
> >
> > Sorry, I'm not buying that story. A bridge support collapsed and
> > caused the span to fall. You only need to look at the pictures to see
> > draw that conclusion. The collapsed span is completely over water,
> > which means the truck was *on* the bridge, not under it.
>
> Maybe the same builders that are involved with the Bay Bridge.
>
The bay bridge had two decks and the span that collapsed during the
> >
> > Sorry, I'm not buying that story. A bridge support collapsed and
> > caused the span to fall. You only need to look at the pictures to see
> > draw that conclusion. The collapsed span is completely over water,
> > which means the truck was *on* the bridge, not under it.
>
> Maybe the same builders that are involved with the Bay Bridge.
>
*earthquake* was on the upper deck, not the lower one.
One of the concrete supports that held the Washington bridge above
water simply isn't there anymore and a truck hitting something above
it has nothing to do with that. What's very clear from looking at
images of the Washington bridge is that it simply FELL down. Too bad
they don't have an earthquake to blame. I would have bought that
story.
Janet Bostwick
May 24, 2013, 4:28:43 PM5/24/13
to
time, worn out, needed to be replaced. We, the voting public are the
ones at fault. We voted into office those extremists that block
infrastructure repair. It's no good blaming the work force. We need
to get rid of the politicians that are so concerned with getting
re-elected that they will whore for the extremists just on the
off-chance they will get another vote. This is our country. It's no
different than owning an apartment building with many tenants. The
tenant rent is based on what it costs for upkeep and the portion of
the building that they use. If you don't keep the place in good
condition, it loses value and good-paying tenants. Aw, crap! I'm
getting all worked up again.
Janet US
sf
May 24, 2013, 4:36:36 PM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 10:34:52 -0700, "Pico Rico"
<Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote:
> I am not sure those are examples that fit your argument. Why should WE be
> spending money on NOLA levies? Those people should MOVE to higher ground.
You're sounding like Pat Robertson when he said the tornado victims
<Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote:
> I am not sure those are examples that fit your argument. Why should WE be
> spending money on NOLA levies? Those people should MOVE to higher ground.
didn't pray hard enough.
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 4:37:21 PM5/24/13
to
news:kno8bt$ps5$2...@news.mixmin.net...
Why? New Orleans is an American city. They are not rersponsbile for the
fact it is built the way it is and has been that way for 200 years now.
> If the bill in N.J. had measures to eliminate the sops to organized labor,
> maybe (not sure) there would have been a change in attitude.
If by sop you mean wages, yeah I am pretty sure those were included.
You radicals cannot accept the fact that government and private enterprise
work hand in hand every single day to the benefit of us all. And just
because somebody is employed by a government agency does not mean they are
shiftless layabouts sucking from your teats.
fact it is built the way it is and has been that way for 200 years now.
> If the bill in N.J. had measures to eliminate the sops to organized labor,
> maybe (not sure) there would have been a change in attitude.
You radicals cannot accept the fact that government and private enterprise
work hand in hand every single day to the benefit of us all. And just
because somebody is employed by a government agency does not mean they are
shiftless layabouts sucking from your teats.
sf
May 24, 2013, 4:38:25 PM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 13:06:47 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> It was at least another 10 years before it was replaced.
At least it was replaced and it's in use now. The new span of the Bay
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> It was at least another 10 years before it was replaced.
Bridge still isn't open and it has been delayed yet again.
Paul M. Cook
May 24, 2013, 4:52:40 PM5/24/13
to
news:pnjvp8ld6du5tnvvt...@4ax.com...
doesn't like you if you don't own a car.
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 10:34:52 -0700, "Pico Rico"
> <Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote:
>
>> I am not sure those are examples that fit your argument. Why should WE
>> be
>> spending money on NOLA levies? Those people should MOVE to higher ground.
>
> You're sounding like Pat Robertson when he said the tornado victims
> didn't pray hard enough.
And he said the Katrina victims were God's judgement on them. I suppose God
> <Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote:
>
>> I am not sure those are examples that fit your argument. Why should WE
>> be
>> spending money on NOLA levies? Those people should MOVE to higher ground.
>
> You're sounding like Pat Robertson when he said the tornado victims
> didn't pray hard enough.
doesn't like you if you don't own a car.
Pico Rico
May 24, 2013, 5:46:21 PM5/24/13
to
news:knoiq9$kj0$1...@dont-email.me...
no, but now that it is wiped out, it would be cheaper to just help them
move.
>
>> If the bill in N.J. had measures to eliminate the sops to organized
>> labor, maybe (not sure) there would have been a change in attitude.
>
> If by sop you mean wages, yeah I am pretty sure those were included.
>
> You radicals cannot accept the fact that government and private enterprise
> work hand in hand every single day to the benefit of us all. And just
> because somebody is employed by a government agency does not mean they are
> shiftless layabouts sucking from your teats.
I agree, but there is much room for improvement. Not so sure I am a
radical, though.
move.
>
>> If the bill in N.J. had measures to eliminate the sops to organized
>> labor, maybe (not sure) there would have been a change in attitude.
>
> If by sop you mean wages, yeah I am pretty sure those were included.
>
> You radicals cannot accept the fact that government and private enterprise
> work hand in hand every single day to the benefit of us all. And just
> because somebody is employed by a government agency does not mean they are
> shiftless layabouts sucking from your teats.
radical, though.
Dave Smith
May 24, 2013, 5:57:20 PM5/24/13
to
On 24/05/2013 4:38 PM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 13:06:47 -0400, Dave Smith
> <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> It was at least another 10 years before it was replaced.
>
> At least it was replaced and it's in use now. The new span of the Bay
> Bridge still isn't open and it has been delayed yet again.
>
I attended a meeting about the twinning of the Peace Bridge between Fort
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 13:06:47 -0400, Dave Smith
> <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> It was at least another 10 years before it was replaced.
>
> At least it was replaced and it's in use now. The new span of the Bay
> Bridge still isn't open and it has been delayed yet again.
>
Erie and Buffalo. The bridge commission said that the bridge deck was
over 80 years old at the time and that it is in desperate need of
replacement. Since the bridge is three lanes it has to be twinned for
the re-construction to start. That meeting was a year or two before I
retired, which is now almost 9 years ago. I read in the paper the other
day that they are still squabbling about things and construction is
nowhere near starting.
Cheri
May 24, 2013, 6:11:02 PM5/24/13
to
"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:jagvp8l9vq053i4qt...@4ax.com...
> The bay bridge had two decks and the span that collapsed during the
> *earthquake* was on the upper deck, not the lower one.
earthquake in 1987.
Cheri
Nunya Bidnits
May 24, 2013, 6:11:17 PM5/24/13
to
> news:knnqsi$4b7$1...@dont-email.me...
>> news:knnqqc$8q1$1...@news.mixmin.net...
>>> news:knnqf2$1ns$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> news:knnqda$83m$1...@news.mixmin.net...
>>>>> news:knnn48$d77$1...@dont-email.me...
assistance, there is something wrong with the employER, not the employee.
Malmart in particular should have to pay extra taxes or huge fines to offset
the load their employees place on the system because they pay paupers' wages
to hard working people. Malmart is the best single argument there is for a
much higher minimum wage.
>> news:knnqqc$8q1$1...@news.mixmin.net...
>>> news:knnqf2$1ns$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> news:knnqda$83m$1...@news.mixmin.net...
>>>>> news:knnn48$d77$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>>> news:na3up8hr4o5od1aeo...@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 23:39:45 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>>>>>> <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 23:39:45 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>>>>>> <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:tc1up8tpqvb9l5dkj...@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just
>>>>>>>>> 5.7... but a
>>>>>>>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just
>>>>>>>>> 5.7... but a
>>>>>>>>> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>>>>>>>>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the
>>>>>>>> time it was
>>>>>>>> on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came
>>>>>>>> back on with an
>>>>>>>> update. But it was breaking news!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
>>>>>>> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't
>>>>>>> know why that bridge collapsed.
>>>>>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
>>>>>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
>>>>>>> Sorry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It collapsed because it was old and rusty and an accident
>>>>>> waiting to happen. We don't do infrastructure in this country -
>>>>>> we cannot afford it because we're broke and spending money to
>>>>>> fix bridges is sosheelizm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> we keep handing money to people who don't work, and penalizing
>>>>> those who do thus discouraging them to work and be productive,
>>>>> and setting the example for others not to bother, so there is no
>>>>> money to pay for the things the government is actually there to
>>>>> do - like take care of major infrastructure.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the
>>>>>>>> time it was
>>>>>>>> on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came
>>>>>>>> back on with an
>>>>>>>> update. But it was breaking news!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
>>>>>>> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't
>>>>>>> know why that bridge collapsed.
>>>>>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
>>>>>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
>>>>>>> Sorry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It collapsed because it was old and rusty and an accident
>>>>>> waiting to happen. We don't do infrastructure in this country -
>>>>>> we cannot afford it because we're broke and spending money to
>>>>>> fix bridges is sosheelizm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> we keep handing money to people who don't work, and penalizing
>>>>> those who do thus discouraging them to work and be productive,
>>>>> and setting the example for others not to bother, so there is no
>>>>> money to pay for the things the government is actually there to
>>>>> do - like take care of major infrastructure.
>>>>
>>>> The money we pay out in cortporate welfare dwarfs what we pay in
>>>> social welfare. There is plenty of money to go around but
>>>> spending it on roads and bridges just supports all those union
>>>> construction workers plus somewhere in the mix somebody will get a
>>>> pension too.
>>>
>>> corporate welfare falls into the category of paying people who don't
>>> work. And I doubt that it dwarfs the noncorporate welfare, in all
>>> its facets, but no need to quibble.
>>
>> Doubt it all you want but welfare recipients, WICA moms and people on
>> unemployment insurance didn't bring that bridge down
>>
>
> add in the other noncorporate welfare - you left out a lot. Add in the
> corporate welfare. There would have been plenty of money to keep that
> bridge in repair. No doubt.
BTW when people who work full time jobs still have to rely on public
>>>> social welfare. There is plenty of money to go around but
>>>> spending it on roads and bridges just supports all those union
>>>> construction workers plus somewhere in the mix somebody will get a
>>>> pension too.
>>>
>>> corporate welfare falls into the category of paying people who don't
>>> work. And I doubt that it dwarfs the noncorporate welfare, in all
>>> its facets, but no need to quibble.
>>
>> Doubt it all you want but welfare recipients, WICA moms and people on
>> unemployment insurance didn't bring that bridge down
>>
>
> add in the other noncorporate welfare - you left out a lot. Add in the
> corporate welfare. There would have been plenty of money to keep that
> bridge in repair. No doubt.
assistance, there is something wrong with the employER, not the employee.
Malmart in particular should have to pay extra taxes or huge fines to offset
the load their employees place on the system because they pay paupers' wages
to hard working people. Malmart is the best single argument there is for a
much higher minimum wage.
Je�us
May 24, 2013, 6:13:24 PM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 17:57:20 -0400, Dave Smith
I watched this doco a few years ago and found it quite interesting
(and depressing):
http://shop.history.com/the-crumbling-of-america-dvd/detail.php?p=104694
(and depressing):
http://shop.history.com/the-crumbling-of-america-dvd/detail.php?p=104694
Nunya Bidnits
May 24, 2013, 6:19:14 PM5/24/13
to
Janet Bostwick <nos...@cableone.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 05:44:47 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
> wrote:
> snip
> Greece is giving their billionaires a 70% tax rate and Italian
> billionaires are getting a 100% tax rate. Compared to that, a 10%
> increase doesn't seem too bad.
> Janet US
That's because those countries tried the same crap that Republicans wanted
to do here in response to the recession. It not only doesn't work, it makes
things much worse. The reason our recovery is so slow is because the nuts
and bolts of the recovery actions were cut down so badly by idiots who
refuse to work with anyone who won't adopt radical, yet proven ineffective
methods. Keynsian theory has gotten us out of every other recession, but the
pack of useless green pea newcomers in Congress thought they knew better and
they wanted to just start twisting knobs and throwing levers without the
slightest clue about historical economics, with their only method being to
simply refuse to pay for anything. They dug in their heels and did
everything they could to try to ruin any hope of recovery, and had they
gotten their way, we would be the same as Greeece, Italy, and Spain... in
deep, deep trouble with no foreseeable way out. And if not for those
congressional newbies and the liars who exhort them to ignorance, the
recovery would have been over by now and our biggest worry would be fallout
from the idiocy of other countries.
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 05:44:47 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
> wrote:
> snip
>>
>> It collapsed because it was old and rusty and an accident waiting to
>> happen. We don't do infrastructure in this country - we cannot
>> afford it because we're broke and spending money to fix bridges is
>> sosheelizm.
>>
> Have you seen the solution to this problem some countries have made?
>> It collapsed because it was old and rusty and an accident waiting to
>> happen. We don't do infrastructure in this country - we cannot
>> afford it because we're broke and spending money to fix bridges is
>> sosheelizm.
>>
> Greece is giving their billionaires a 70% tax rate and Italian
> billionaires are getting a 100% tax rate. Compared to that, a 10%
> increase doesn't seem too bad.
> Janet US
That's because those countries tried the same crap that Republicans wanted
to do here in response to the recession. It not only doesn't work, it makes
things much worse. The reason our recovery is so slow is because the nuts
and bolts of the recovery actions were cut down so badly by idiots who
refuse to work with anyone who won't adopt radical, yet proven ineffective
methods. Keynsian theory has gotten us out of every other recession, but the
pack of useless green pea newcomers in Congress thought they knew better and
they wanted to just start twisting knobs and throwing levers without the
slightest clue about historical economics, with their only method being to
simply refuse to pay for anything. They dug in their heels and did
everything they could to try to ruin any hope of recovery, and had they
gotten their way, we would be the same as Greeece, Italy, and Spain... in
deep, deep trouble with no foreseeable way out. And if not for those
congressional newbies and the liars who exhort them to ignorance, the
recovery would have been over by now and our biggest worry would be fallout
from the idiocy of other countries.
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
sf
May 24, 2013, 6:42:01 PM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 15:11:02 -0700, "Cheri" <che...@newsguy.com>
wrote:
That was '89 and shoddy *workmanship* isn't the problem. If you're
talking about inspectors who didn't catch shoddy materials before they
were installed, okay I'll agree with you. We simply don't have enough
inspectors to get the job done right, but that's always the case. We
need a lot more of them on every single construction job, not just at
the bridge. As it is, I'd rather have that stuff caught late than
have the structure fail when it's in use by the public.
wrote:
talking about inspectors who didn't catch shoddy materials before they
were installed, okay I'll agree with you. We simply don't have enough
inspectors to get the job done right, but that's always the case. We
need a lot more of them on every single construction job, not just at
the bridge. As it is, I'd rather have that stuff caught late than
have the structure fail when it's in use by the public.
Dave Smith
May 24, 2013, 6:47:19 PM5/24/13
to
On 24/05/2013 10:34 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "l not -l" <lal...@cujo.com> wrote in message
> news:knnssp$g28$1...@dont-email.me...
>> CBS This Morning reported that the cause was an oversize truck hitting a
>> support structure.
>> --
>> Change Cujo to Juno in email address.
>>
>> Bad decisions make good stories.
I am not even sure what that would mean. It could be that they had been
recently repaired and had been painted over with primer, which is often
red.
The on site reported said something about the trucking company being
responsible for not checking the height of the bridge. A load big enough
to hit that beam would have required a special over dimensional permit.
In order to get the permit the company would have to provide the
dimensions of the vehicle and load and map out a route to get to it.
The state agency responsible for the highways would have to check their
records for limits on bridges, tunnels and overpasses. Typically, these
permits are acquired with the help of permitting agencies and or O/O
escort companies.
Here we have a company who has undertaken to transport an over
dimensional load through Washington, applied to the state for a permit,
and has most likely gone through a permit agency and an escort service.
Then, when a load is slightly damaged after contact with a beam, an
entire span of the bridge collapses .... and they are blaming the company???
While the system might be at fault in this situation, thank goodness it
happened in the US. Since it is a major route and, therefore a major
trucking route, it will be repaired in record time. I know that a lot
of people like to dump on the US, but there aren't many places in the
world where we could expect an engineering disaster like this to be
quickly repaired.
> "l not -l" <lal...@cujo.com> wrote in message
> news:knnssp$g28$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>> On 24-May-2013, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 23:39:45 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>> On 24-May-2013, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 23:39:45 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>>> news:tc1up8tpqvb9l5dkj...@4ax.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but
>>>>> a
>>>>> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>>>>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>>>
>>>> Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the time
>>>> it was
>>>> on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came back on
>>>> with an
>>>> update. But it was breaking news!
>>>>
>>> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
>>> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know why
>>> that bridge collapsed.
>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
>>> Sorry.
>>>
>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but
>>>>> a
>>>>> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>>>>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>>>
>>>> Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the time
>>>> it was
>>>> on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came back on
>>>> with an
>>>> update. But it was breaking news!
>>>>
>>> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
>>> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know why
>>> that bridge collapsed.
>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
>>> Sorry.
>>>
>> CBS This Morning reported that the cause was an oversize truck hitting a
>> support structure.
>> --
>> Change Cujo to Juno in email address.
>>
>> Bad decisions make good stories.
>
> Have a close look at the bridge pictures. Here's a good one.
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/skagit-river-bridge-collapses_n_3329496.html
>
> OK, notice on many joints how they are painted red? Very fresh red mind
> you. Know what that is? It means those are areas that were inspected and
> found to be deficient structurally - meaning they were rusted out. That
> bridge was inspected and recently and you can see those paint marks
> everywhere on it. No truck should have been able to bring down an entire
> bridge all by itself.
>
I followed that link. I didn't see any photos with joints painted red.
> Have a close look at the bridge pictures. Here's a good one.
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/skagit-river-bridge-collapses_n_3329496.html
>
> OK, notice on many joints how they are painted red? Very fresh red mind
> you. Know what that is? It means those are areas that were inspected and
> found to be deficient structurally - meaning they were rusted out. That
> bridge was inspected and recently and you can see those paint marks
> everywhere on it. No truck should have been able to bring down an entire
> bridge all by itself.
>
I am not even sure what that would mean. It could be that they had been
recently repaired and had been painted over with primer, which is often
red.
The on site reported said something about the trucking company being
responsible for not checking the height of the bridge. A load big enough
to hit that beam would have required a special over dimensional permit.
In order to get the permit the company would have to provide the
dimensions of the vehicle and load and map out a route to get to it.
The state agency responsible for the highways would have to check their
records for limits on bridges, tunnels and overpasses. Typically, these
permits are acquired with the help of permitting agencies and or O/O
escort companies.
Here we have a company who has undertaken to transport an over
dimensional load through Washington, applied to the state for a permit,
and has most likely gone through a permit agency and an escort service.
Then, when a load is slightly damaged after contact with a beam, an
entire span of the bridge collapses .... and they are blaming the company???
While the system might be at fault in this situation, thank goodness it
happened in the US. Since it is a major route and, therefore a major
trucking route, it will be repaired in record time. I know that a lot
of people like to dump on the US, but there aren't many places in the
world where we could expect an engineering disaster like this to be
quickly repaired.
Dave Smith
May 24, 2013, 6:54:04 PM5/24/13
to
state/provincial and national infrastructure issue, is usually subject
to vigorous inspection processes. I used to work for our province's
highways department and had a lot of contact with construction
department. The work was contracted out but the ministry had inspectors
that oversaw every step of the process. The work was usually contracted
out to the cheapest bidder, and they had to keep and eye on every step
of the project.
Julie Bove
May 24, 2013, 10:32:48 PM5/24/13
to
Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "Julie Bove" <juli...@frontier.com> wrote in message
> news:knn3fi$d89$1...@dont-email.me...
>> news:na3up8hr4o5od1aeo...@4ax.com...
>> earthquakes today. Last word I heard on the bridge is that maybe a
>> big rig hit it. They said it was built in 1955 and was listed as an
>> obsolete bridge. But it's obviously not obsolete because it is the
>> main way in and out of that area. I wonder what people will do in
>> the morning?
hit it, then there was a flash of white and then he was in the water. I
would presume they might have some sort of camera on it and can check it
out.
> "Julie Bove" <juli...@frontier.com> wrote in message
> news:knn3fi$d89$1...@dont-email.me...
>> news:na3up8hr4o5od1aeo...@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 23:39:45 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>>> news:tc1up8tpqvb9l5dkj...@4ax.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7...
>>>>> but a bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>>>>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>>>
>>>> Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the
>>>> time it was
>>>> on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came back
>>>> on with an
>>>> update. But it was breaking news!
>>>>
>>> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
>>> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know
>>> why that bridge collapsed.
>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
>>> Sorry.
>>
>> Ah, okay. I just looked an apparently we had tons of little
>>>>>
>>>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7...
>>>>> but a bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>>>>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>>>
>>>> Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the
>>>> time it was
>>>> on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came back
>>>> on with an
>>>> update. But it was breaking news!
>>>>
>>> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
>>> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know
>>> why that bridge collapsed.
>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
>>> Sorry.
>>
>> earthquakes today. Last word I heard on the bridge is that maybe a
>> big rig hit it. They said it was built in 1955 and was listed as an
>> obsolete bridge. But it's obviously not obsolete because it is the
>> main way in and out of that area. I wonder what people will do in
>> the morning?
>
> No big rig hit it. Even if it did it's supposed to be stronger than
> that. It is typical of most bridges in this country - falling apart
> from disrepair. All bridges defy gravity but in the end gravity wins
> if they are not maintained properly. And it will keep getting worse
> until a collapse kills a few hundred people. The only reason their
> is no outrage over this on is because somehow nobody died. Day by
> day we descend further into third world status.
Well... One of the men who wound up in the water said that he saw a big rig
> No big rig hit it. Even if it did it's supposed to be stronger than
> that. It is typical of most bridges in this country - falling apart
> from disrepair. All bridges defy gravity but in the end gravity wins
> if they are not maintained properly. And it will keep getting worse
> until a collapse kills a few hundred people. The only reason their
> is no outrage over this on is because somehow nobody died. Day by
> day we descend further into third world status.
hit it, then there was a flash of white and then he was in the water. I
would presume they might have some sort of camera on it and can check it
out.
Julie Bove
May 24, 2013, 10:37:23 PM5/24/13
to
Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote in message
> news:519f835f$0$24854$a826...@newsreader.readnews.com...
>> Eye witness reports indicate an oversized load on a semi did indeed
>> strike the "structurally deficient" bridge immediately prior to it's
>> collapse. Why the escort vehicle ahead of the semi didn't detect the
>> clearance issue and call for a stop is probably a bigger question.
>
> It was declared "functionally obsolete" which meant its design was so
> outdated it needed to be replaced rather than repaired for it to be
> compatible with the growth in demand. The fact it was not declared
> strucurally deficient is the crime. No truck should have been able
> to bring down that bridge even if it backed up and hit the bridge
> repeatedly.
They said on HLN that is not what it means. It simply means that it is an
outdated design. They said that newer bridges would be built in different
proportions, such as wider. Not that there was anything structurally wrong
with it.
> "Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote in message
> news:519f835f$0$24854$a826...@newsreader.readnews.com...
>> strike the "structurally deficient" bridge immediately prior to it's
>> collapse. Why the escort vehicle ahead of the semi didn't detect the
>> clearance issue and call for a stop is probably a bigger question.
>
> It was declared "functionally obsolete" which meant its design was so
> outdated it needed to be replaced rather than repaired for it to be
> compatible with the growth in demand. The fact it was not declared
> strucurally deficient is the crime. No truck should have been able
> to bring down that bridge even if it backed up and hit the bridge
> repeatedly.
They said on HLN that is not what it means. It simply means that it is an
outdated design. They said that newer bridges would be built in different
proportions, such as wider. Not that there was anything structurally wrong
with it.
Julie Bove
May 24, 2013, 10:38:11 PM5/24/13
to
Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:na3up8hr4o5od1aeo...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 23:39:45 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>> <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:tc1up8tpqvb9l5dkj...@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but
>>>> a bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>>>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>>
>>> Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the time
>>> it was
>>> on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came back
>>> on with an
>>> update. But it was breaking news!
>>>
>> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
>> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know why
>> that bridge collapsed.
>> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
>> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
>> Sorry.
>>
>
> "sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:na3up8hr4o5od1aeo...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 23:39:45 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>> <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:tc1up8tpqvb9l5dkj...@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but
>>>> a bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>>>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>>
>>> Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the time
>>> it was
>>> on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came back
>>> on with an
>>> update. But it was breaking news!
>>>
>> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
>> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know why
>> that bridge collapsed.
>> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
>> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
>> Sorry.
>>
>
> It collapsed because it was old and rusty and an accident waiting to
> happen. We don't do infrastructure in this country - we cannot afford
> it because we're broke and spending money to fix bridges is
> sosheelizm.
Do you live here Paul? They said it was *not* rusty!
> happen. We don't do infrastructure in this country - we cannot afford
> it because we're broke and spending money to fix bridges is
> sosheelizm.
Julie Bove
May 24, 2013, 10:45:44 PM5/24/13
to
Nunya Bidnits wrote:
> BTW when people who work full time jobs still have to rely on public
> assistance, there is something wrong with the employER, not the
> employee. Malmart in particular should have to pay extra taxes or
> huge fines to offset the load their employees place on the system
> because they pay paupers' wages to hard working people. Malmart is
> the best single argument there is for a much higher minimum wage.
I have worked with homeless people. Some of them were unemployed for so
> BTW when people who work full time jobs still have to rely on public
> assistance, there is something wrong with the employER, not the
> employee. Malmart in particular should have to pay extra taxes or
> huge fines to offset the load their employees place on the system
> because they pay paupers' wages to hard working people. Malmart is
> the best single argument there is for a much higher minimum wage.
long that their unemployment ran out, if they had it. They were starting
over from scratch. Some cases were women perhaps even with children whose
husband's ran off with another woman and they were starting over again.
One of them wound up being killed. I think she wasn't yet divorced. She
used to tell us about her studio apartment where she had nothing but a
sleeping bag. She and her daughter slept on the floor. Each week she tried
to buy something small to put in there but it was hard given the wages that
she made. Then one day she didn't come to work. Some years later, I read a
book about a woman who was killed after her husband pushed her off of a
mountain here. That was her! I didn't make the connection until later when
I began talking to some coworkers about it. She didn't work in my
department so I didn't know her well. But the pictures looked familiar.
This was back in the 1970's and things have only gotten worse there since.
Used to be they did hire full time people. After I retired, almost everyone
got their hours cut. And now? The store is no longer there. All those
people out of a job now. Some of them had never worked anywhere else.
Julie Bove
May 24, 2013, 10:53:18 PM5/24/13
to
> news:9cvup8hjmmvsloici...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 24 May 2013 09:32:50 -0500, George Leppla
>> <geo...@cruisemaster.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Our defense budget is way out of proportion compared to the rest of
>>> the world. There is nothing in the Constitution about spreading
>>> democracy throughout the world or being the policeman for the
>>> entire planet. But it is easier to talk about taking money away from
>>> entitlement
>>> programs and "unpatriotic" to talk about military cuts.
>>
>> What's totally crazy is the military doesn't even *want* all the
>> money we're shoveling their way, but we're doing it anyway and
>> against their wishes.
>
> It's crazy working for the DOD, which I did in 1984. Our department
> was on a shoestring budget despite Reagan's vastly increased defense
> spewnding. Our offie space was crumbling and literally the paint was
> peeling off the walls. Our desks were pre-WWII. We could not get a
> dime for repairs. Yet the DOD blows billions on useless crap if it
> means some defense contractor gets a juicy purchase order.
Yep! I hate going into any military building. They all look similar.
Cement walls, bare bones, outdated stuff.
We had to stay in the military "hotel" on Cape Cod while they were packing
us to move. Horrible experience. I didn't want to sit on the furniture or
sleep on the beds. And there was no AC! Hotter than the hubs of Haiti in
there and I had a newborn. I kept going back and forth between the grocery
store and the golf course where I used to work just to take advantage of
their AC. And the bathroom? Looked like it was put in, in 1930 and had
never been updated.
Our house was torn down after we moved. It took looked to be built in 1930
and I was told that it was a mistake. They had sent the plans for houses
slated for Florida for there. So I had a flat topped house (horrible in an
area with lots of snow), tons of windows and hardwood floors. That house
never ever got warm in the winter despite my cranking the heat up.
Some Coast Guard base in Florida got the houses with the carpets, peaked
roofs, smaller windows and fireplaces.
Our house was torn down because it wasn't up to code. I already suspected a
problem with the wiring and I had problems with the phone lines. But it was
the structure itself that was dangerous. The beams or whatever they are
called were far smaller in size than they were supposed to be, meaning that
we had an unsafe structure. Lovely! Although it was a large house as
houses go, I always felt that living in it was just one step up from camping
in a tent. It was that bare bones and bad.
>> On Fri, 24 May 2013 09:32:50 -0500, George Leppla
>> <geo...@cruisemaster.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Our defense budget is way out of proportion compared to the rest of
>>> the world. There is nothing in the Constitution about spreading
>>> democracy throughout the world or being the policeman for the
>>> entire planet. But it is easier to talk about taking money away from
>>> entitlement
>>> programs and "unpatriotic" to talk about military cuts.
>>
>> What's totally crazy is the military doesn't even *want* all the
>> money we're shoveling their way, but we're doing it anyway and
>> against their wishes.
>
> It's crazy working for the DOD, which I did in 1984. Our department
> was on a shoestring budget despite Reagan's vastly increased defense
> spewnding. Our offie space was crumbling and literally the paint was
> peeling off the walls. Our desks were pre-WWII. We could not get a
> dime for repairs. Yet the DOD blows billions on useless crap if it
> means some defense contractor gets a juicy purchase order.
Yep! I hate going into any military building. They all look similar.
Cement walls, bare bones, outdated stuff.
We had to stay in the military "hotel" on Cape Cod while they were packing
us to move. Horrible experience. I didn't want to sit on the furniture or
sleep on the beds. And there was no AC! Hotter than the hubs of Haiti in
there and I had a newborn. I kept going back and forth between the grocery
store and the golf course where I used to work just to take advantage of
their AC. And the bathroom? Looked like it was put in, in 1930 and had
never been updated.
Our house was torn down after we moved. It took looked to be built in 1930
and I was told that it was a mistake. They had sent the plans for houses
slated for Florida for there. So I had a flat topped house (horrible in an
area with lots of snow), tons of windows and hardwood floors. That house
never ever got warm in the winter despite my cranking the heat up.
Some Coast Guard base in Florida got the houses with the carpets, peaked
roofs, smaller windows and fireplaces.
Our house was torn down because it wasn't up to code. I already suspected a
problem with the wiring and I had problems with the phone lines. But it was
the structure itself that was dangerous. The beams or whatever they are
called were far smaller in size than they were supposed to be, meaning that
we had an unsafe structure. Lovely! Although it was a large house as
houses go, I always felt that living in it was just one step up from camping
in a tent. It was that bare bones and bad.
Julie Bove
May 24, 2013, 10:55:32 PM5/24/13
to
Dave Smith wrote:
> it appears than an oversized truck had clipped a beam.
Yes. And the earthquake wasn't here. She corrected that in another reply.
> On 24/05/2013 2:16 AM, sf wrote:
>>
>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
>> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>
> Apparently unrelated to the earthquake. The linked report says that
>>
>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
>> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>
> it appears than an oversized truck had clipped a beam.
Yes. And the earthquake wasn't here. She corrected that in another reply.
Julie Bove
May 24, 2013, 10:55:48 PM5/24/13
to
Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:qAJnt.103530$8u7....@fed10.iad...
> traffic?
It appears to have.
> "Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:qAJnt.103530$8u7....@fed10.iad...
>> On 24/05/2013 2:16 AM, sf wrote:
>>>
>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
>>> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>>
>> Apparently unrelated to the earthquake. The linked report says that
>> it appears than an oversized truck had clipped a beam.
>
> And that's supposed to bring down a bridge that carries 4 lanes of
>>>
>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but a
>>> bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>>
>> Apparently unrelated to the earthquake. The linked report says that
>> it appears than an oversized truck had clipped a beam.
>
> traffic?
It appears to have.
Julie Bove
May 24, 2013, 10:56:18 PM5/24/13
to
Dave Smith wrote:
> Another report indicated there was some question as to whether the
> truck hit the bridge causing it to collapse or if the bridge struck
> the truck as it was falling.
Well that would make more sense!
> truck hit the bridge causing it to collapse or if the bridge struck
> the truck as it was falling.
Well that would make more sense!
Julie Bove
May 24, 2013, 10:58:43 PM5/24/13
to
Paul M. Cook wrote:
> That bridge weighs thousands of TONS. A truck weighs at most 80,000
> pounds loaded. That's 40 tons. What is that bridge made of,
> aluminum foil and popsicle sticks?
No. Have been across that bridge countless times. And I'm no structural
engineer but I suspect that you aren't either. It is plausible that if it
were hit in just some exact spot that this could have happened but... I
also suspect it is more like Dave said. The bridge began to come down,
making it look like the truck hit it.
> That bridge weighs thousands of TONS. A truck weighs at most 80,000
> pounds loaded. That's 40 tons. What is that bridge made of,
> aluminum foil and popsicle sticks?
No. Have been across that bridge countless times. And I'm no structural
engineer but I suspect that you aren't either. It is plausible that if it
were hit in just some exact spot that this could have happened but... I
also suspect it is more like Dave said. The bridge began to come down,
making it look like the truck hit it.
Julie Bove
May 24, 2013, 11:02:11 PM5/24/13
to
sf wrote:
> I have no idea why it was still in use. That thing is rickety
> looking. To my untrained eye, it looks like it was constructed with
> materials from an Erector Set.
>
> Honestly, I don't see how a truck could have taken it down. The span
> that collapsed is over water. The part that goes over another road
> (where a truck could have damaged it) is still standing and two spans
> away from the one that collapsed.
I used to have a severe bridge phobia after seeing a VW bug hanging off of
an ill timed draw bridge. I would quake with fear any time we crossed a
bridge and that one was particularly bad for me, perhaps because we went
over it so many times to see relatives. I lost that fear once we moved to
Cape Cod. A bridge was the only way off and on. And although I was never
super comfortable crossing that bridge, it didn't give me the sense of doom
that the one here did.
> I have no idea why it was still in use. That thing is rickety
> looking. To my untrained eye, it looks like it was constructed with
> materials from an Erector Set.
>
> Honestly, I don't see how a truck could have taken it down. The span
> that collapsed is over water. The part that goes over another road
> (where a truck could have damaged it) is still standing and two spans
> away from the one that collapsed.
I used to have a severe bridge phobia after seeing a VW bug hanging off of
an ill timed draw bridge. I would quake with fear any time we crossed a
bridge and that one was particularly bad for me, perhaps because we went
over it so many times to see relatives. I lost that fear once we moved to
Cape Cod. A bridge was the only way off and on. And although I was never
super comfortable crossing that bridge, it didn't give me the sense of doom
that the one here did.
sf
May 25, 2013, 12:13:49 AM5/25/13
to
aware of have been with the materials that were used.
sf
May 25, 2013, 12:22:29 AM5/25/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 18:47:19 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> I followed that link. I didn't see any photos with joints painted red.
> I am not even sure what that would mean. It could be that they had been
> recently repaired and had been painted over with primer, which is often
> red.
Then there's something wrong with your monitor. I saw bright orange
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> I followed that link. I didn't see any photos with joints painted red.
> I am not even sure what that would mean. It could be that they had been
> recently repaired and had been painted over with primer, which is often
> red.
marks all over the place. If you're going to quibble about the
difference between orange and red, then you don't understand how your
monitor can misread colors.
Pico Rico
May 25, 2013, 12:45:19 AM5/25/13
to
"Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:knnti7$jse$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> "l not -l" <lal...@cujo.com> wrote in message
> news:knnssp$g28$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>> On 24-May-2013, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
> "l not -l" <lal...@cujo.com> wrote in message
> news:knnssp$g28$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>> On 24-May-2013, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 23:39:45 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>> > news:tc1up8tpqvb9l5dkj...@4ax.com...
>>> > >
>>> > > We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but
>>> > > a
>>> > > bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>>> > > http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>> >
>>> > > We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7... but
>>> > > a
>>> > > bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>>> > > http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-sends-cars-people/story?id=19246280#.UZ7focqyklo
>>> >
>>> > Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the time
>>> > it was
>>> > on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came back on
>>> > with an
>>> > update. But it was breaking news!
>>> >
>>> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
>>> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know why
>>> that bridge collapsed.
>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
>>> Sorry.
>>>
>>> > it was
>>> > on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came back on
>>> > with an
>>> > update. But it was breaking news!
>>> >
>>> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
>>> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know why
>>> that bridge collapsed.
>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
>>> http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
>>> Sorry.
>>>
>>> --
>> CBS This Morning reported that the cause was an oversize truck hitting a
>> support structure.
>> --
>> Change Cujo to Juno in email address.
>>
>> Bad decisions make good stories.
>
> Have a close look at the bridge pictures. Here's a good one.
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/skagit-river-bridge-collapses_n_3329496.html
>
> OK, notice on many joints how they are painted red? Very fresh red mind
> you. Know what that is? It means those are areas that were inspected and
> found to be deficient structurally - meaning they were rusted out.
you are making that up.
>> CBS This Morning reported that the cause was an oversize truck hitting a
>> support structure.
>> --
>> Change Cujo to Juno in email address.
>>
>> Bad decisions make good stories.
>
> Have a close look at the bridge pictures. Here's a good one.
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/skagit-river-bridge-collapses_n_3329496.html
>
> OK, notice on many joints how they are painted red? Very fresh red mind
> you. Know what that is? It means those are areas that were inspected and
> found to be deficient structurally - meaning they were rusted out.
Julie Bove
May 25, 2013, 2:13:14 AM5/25/13
to
news:qve0q81rkhp37avc9...@4ax.com...
I just looked at the link. If you look at the video, the bridge is shown
very clearly and there are no marks on it. If you look at the somewhat
blurry picture below, it does like like reddish marks but you can also see
those marks on the cars below and beside and in the water. So I think it is
some sort of flaw in the photo. I do not think the bridge is rusted. I
have seen it in person.
very clearly and there are no marks on it. If you look at the somewhat
blurry picture below, it does like like reddish marks but you can also see
those marks on the cars below and beside and in the water. So I think it is
some sort of flaw in the photo. I do not think the bridge is rusted. I
have seen it in person.
Bryan
May 25, 2013, 8:07:41 AM5/25/13
to
On Friday, May 24, 2013 8:59:27 AM UTC-5, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 06:03:20 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
>
> wrote:
>
> snip
>
> Janet US
--Bryan
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 06:03:20 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
>
> wrote:
>
> snip
>
> >
>
> >No big rig hit it. Even if it did it's supposed to be stronger than that.
>
> >It is typical of most bridges in this country - falling apart from
>
> >disrepair. All bridges defy gravity but in the end gravity wins if they are
>
> >not maintained properly. And it will keep getting worse until a collapse
>
> >kills a few hundred people. The only reason their is no outrage over this
>
> >on is because somehow nobody died. Day by day we descend further into third
>
> >world status.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >No big rig hit it. Even if it did it's supposed to be stronger than that.
>
> >It is typical of most bridges in this country - falling apart from
>
> >disrepair. All bridges defy gravity but in the end gravity wins if they are
>
> >not maintained properly. And it will keep getting worse until a collapse
>
> >kills a few hundred people. The only reason their is no outrage over this
>
> >on is because somehow nobody died. Day by day we descend further into third
>
> >world status.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> You can have all the outrage you want and it will do no good. The
>
> extremists elected to our federal government don't care and are able
>
> to choke any attempt to mitigate the awful condition of our
>
> infrastructure.
One of many reasons that the only good Republican is a dead Republican.
>
> extremists elected to our federal government don't care and are able
>
> to choke any attempt to mitigate the awful condition of our
>
> infrastructure.
>
> Janet US
--Bryan
Gary
May 25, 2013, 9:24:40 AM5/25/13
to
Bryan wrote:
>
> One of many reasons that the only good Republican is a dead Republican.
And the Democrats raise your taxes but you like to ignore that fact.
>
> One of many reasons that the only good Republican is a dead Republican.
G.
Dave Smith
May 25, 2013, 10:09:18 AM5/25/13
to
I have not found any photos clear enough to be sure, but in the broken
span it appears that there is red at places where the steel has bent,
torn or buckled and it looks as if the paint has flaked off at those
stress points.
In the CBC article there is a photo of the truck and load that stuck the
bridge. It looks like a large trailer without sides. It is not a huge
hefty structure. There is no apparent damage to it in the photo, and I
am having a hard time understanding how an impact that caused so little
damage to fabricated metal shell could cause the collapse of a truss
bridge, which was made from much more substantial steel.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2013/05/24/edmonton-skagit-bridge-trucker-spruce-grove.html
Dave Smith
May 25, 2013, 10:10:54 AM5/25/13
to
On 25/05/2013 12:13 AM, sf wrote:
>
>> Workmanship should not be an issue. Transportation being a
>> state/provincial and national infrastructure issue, is usually subject
>> to vigorous inspection processes. I used to work for our province's
>> highways department and had a lot of contact with construction
>> department. The work was contracted out but the ministry had inspectors
>> that oversaw every step of the process. The work was usually contracted
>> out to the cheapest bidder, and they had to keep and eye on every step
>> of the project.
>
> We have that and we have local inspectors. The problems I've been
> aware of have been with the materials that were used.
>
It goes beyond the materials. Even the compaction of the soil is very
>
>> Workmanship should not be an issue. Transportation being a
>> state/provincial and national infrastructure issue, is usually subject
>> to vigorous inspection processes. I used to work for our province's
>> highways department and had a lot of contact with construction
>> department. The work was contracted out but the ministry had inspectors
>> that oversaw every step of the process. The work was usually contracted
>> out to the cheapest bidder, and they had to keep and eye on every step
>> of the project.
>
> We have that and we have local inspectors. The problems I've been
> aware of have been with the materials that were used.
>
important in road and bridge construction. I knew a lot of the
inspectors and they said they had to keep an eye on the contractors at
Dave Smith
May 25, 2013, 10:12:48 AM5/25/13
to
On 25/05/2013 12:45 AM, Pico Rico wrote:
>>
>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/skagit-river-bridge-collapses_n_3329496.html
>>
>> OK, notice on many joints how they are painted red? Very fresh red mind
>> you. Know what that is? It means those are areas that were inspected and
>> found to be deficient structurally - meaning they were rusted out.
>
> you are making that up.
>
>
There does appear to be red but from the photos I have been able to find
>>
>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/skagit-river-bridge-collapses_n_3329496.html
>>
>> OK, notice on many joints how they are painted red? Very fresh red mind
>> you. Know what that is? It means those are areas that were inspected and
>> found to be deficient structurally - meaning they were rusted out.
>
> you are making that up.
>
>
it looks more like the top paint flaked off under stress. It is red
wherever the steel was bent, torn or otherwise stressed.
Pico Rico
May 25, 2013, 10:16:33 AM5/25/13
to
news:6G3ot.112359$BC1....@fed01.iad...
yes, it is the primer or undercoating of paint. It is no an area painted
after inspection to indicate structural deficiency. That is just a load of
sensationalist BS.
after inspection to indicate structural deficiency. That is just a load of
sensationalist BS.
sf
May 25, 2013, 10:18:00 AM5/25/13
to
stock prices and corporate profits under Democratic administrations
than under Republican ones. I'd rather have the country doing well
and if I pay more in taxes as a result, then I'm glad to do it.
Unfortunately, the party of NO is strangling the USA. It's a simple
concept. Jobs are not created out of thin air, they are driven by
demand. We need a strong middle class, because demand for goods and
services is what creates jobs and strengthens the economy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIhOXCgSunc
Pico Rico
May 25, 2013, 10:24:22 AM5/25/13
to
news:vlg1q8plbbodt5urq...@4ax.com...
was the cause.
> On Sat, 25 May 2013 09:24:40 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:
>
>> Bryan wrote:
>> >
>> > One of many reasons that the only good Republican is a dead Republican.
>>
>> And the Democrats raise your taxes but you like to ignore that fact.
>>
>
> History shows that there was stronger growth for the U.S. economy,
> stock prices and corporate profits under Democratic administrations
> than under Republican ones.
even if this is true, it does not prove that the party in the administration
>
>> Bryan wrote:
>> >
>> > One of many reasons that the only good Republican is a dead Republican.
>>
>> And the Democrats raise your taxes but you like to ignore that fact.
>>
>
> History shows that there was stronger growth for the U.S. economy,
> stock prices and corporate profits under Democratic administrations
> than under Republican ones.
was the cause.
Pico Rico
May 25, 2013, 10:43:42 AM5/25/13
to
"Bryan" <bryang...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:84bf75c4-6581-4081...@googlegroups.com...
votes, there might be more money available for infrastructure.
Dave Smith
May 25, 2013, 11:14:41 AM5/25/13
to
not benefit our society to have most of the money and most of the
property in the hands of a few very wealthy people. Not saying that just
because they are rich they have to pay to support the less
advantaged..... but... most of their wealth is gained courtesy of the
infrastructure that is created and run by the people. I do agree that
money provides an incentive for people to work but.... billions????/ Do
people really need to earn <?> billions of dollars. .
It is disconcerting to hear the CEOs spouting the free enterprise line
about competition and efficiency, and whining about how unions are
destroying the country when they are making hundreds, sometimes
thousands as much as their employees. What makes that even more
disturbing is that the lower the employee wages the greater the
differential. For instance, at Microsoft the ratio is 12:- with the CAO
pulling down $1.37 million while the median worker pay is $91,000 and
a similar ratio at Amazon. At McDonalds it is 434:1, with the CEO making
$9,55 million compared to median worker pay of $22,000 and Walmart at
1,034:1
Sorry, but I just can't accept that a CEO running a company is worth
more than 1,000 times as much as the people working for the company. We
saw the greed and entitlement with the crash of the economy a few years
back. Major automotive companies, insurance and financial institutions
were going down the tubes in the meltdown that they shared
responsibilities for, and when the government bailed them out the
bastards gave themselves huge bonuses.
Janet Bostwick
May 25, 2013, 11:16:21 AM5/25/13
to
47% low-life takers. Get real.
Janet US
Janet Bostwick
May 25, 2013, 11:20:01 AM5/25/13
to
Janet US
sf
May 25, 2013, 11:21:53 AM5/25/13
to
> of course if the Democrats weren't so busy spending all our money buying
> votes, there might be more money available for infrastructure.
>
Democrats are stuck paying off unfunded wars that were waged solely to
> votes, there might be more money available for infrastructure.
>
enrich a certain Republican vice-president's friends in the military
industrial complex... or have you forgotten already? How convenient.
sf
May 25, 2013, 11:23:46 AM5/25/13
to
On Sat, 25 May 2013 10:10:54 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> I knew a lot of the
> inspectors and they said they had to keep an eye on the contractors at
> every step of the process.
Absolutely.
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> I knew a lot of the
> inspectors and they said they had to keep an eye on the contractors at
> every step of the process.
sf
May 25, 2013, 12:04:18 PM5/25/13
to
On Sat, 25 May 2013 11:14:41 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Sorry, but I just can't accept that a CEO running a company is worth
> more than 1,000 times as much as the people working for the company.
Ben & Jerry's ice cream had a policy (before they sold the company)
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Sorry, but I just can't accept that a CEO running a company is worth
> more than 1,000 times as much as the people working for the company.
that no employee's rate of pay shall exceed seven times that of
entry-level employees.
merryb
May 25, 2013, 1:29:17 PM5/25/13
to
On May 24, 7:32 pm, "Julie Bove" <julieb...@frontier.com> wrote:
> Paul M. Cook wrote:
> > "Julie Bove" <julieb...@frontier.com> wrote in message
> >news:knn3fi$d89$1...@dont-email.me...
> >>news:na3up8hr4o5od1aeo...@4ax.com...
> >> earthquakes today. Last word I heard on the bridge is that maybe a
> >> big rig hit it. They said it was built in 1955 and was listed as an
> >> obsolete bridge. But it's obviously not obsolete because it is the
> >> main way in and out of that area. I wonder what people will do in
> >> the morning?
> hit it, then there was a flash of white and then he was in the water. I
> would presume they might have some sort of camera on it and can check it
> out.
We are getting a lot more info here than I am sure others are since we
are local. I heard that the water was higher than normal, so maybe
that added to the first issue, but it was obviously the truck hitting
it that started it.
> Paul M. Cook wrote:
> > "Julie Bove" <julieb...@frontier.com> wrote in message
> >news:knn3fi$d89$1...@dont-email.me...
> >>news:na3up8hr4o5od1aeo...@4ax.com...
> >>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 23:39:45 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> >>>>news:tc1up8tpqvb9l5dkj...@4ax.com...
>
> >>>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7...
> >>>>> but a bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
> >>>>>http://abcnews.go.com/US/bridge-collapse-skagit-river-washington-send...
>
> >>>>> We were making fun of it down here, because it was just 5.7...
> >>>>> but a bridge collapsed and that's not funny.
>
> >>>> Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the
> >>>> time it was
> >>>> on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came back
> >>>> on with an
> >>>> update. But it was breaking news!
>
> >>> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
> >>> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know
> >>> why that bridge collapsed.
> >>>http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
> >>>http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
> >>> Sorry.
>
> >> Ah, okay. I just looked an apparently we had tons of little
> >>>> Oh! Is that why? I knew that the bridge collapsed but at the
> >>>> time it was
> >>>> on the news, they didn't know why. Odd that they never came back
> >>>> on with an
> >>>> update. But it was breaking news!
>
> >>> Damn. I was wrong. The 5.7 earthquake earlier today was in
> >>> Sacramento. Washington's earthquake was yesterday. I don't know
> >>> why that bridge collapsed.
> >>>http://earthquaketrack.com/r/san-juan-islands-washington/recent
> >>>http://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2013-05-22-13-48-06-utc-2-5-15
> >>> Sorry.
>
> >> earthquakes today. Last word I heard on the bridge is that maybe a
> >> big rig hit it. They said it was built in 1955 and was listed as an
> >> obsolete bridge. But it's obviously not obsolete because it is the
> >> main way in and out of that area. I wonder what people will do in
> >> the morning?
>
> > No big rig hit it. Even if it did it's supposed to be stronger than
> > that. It is typical of most bridges in this country - falling apart
> > from disrepair. All bridges defy gravity but in the end gravity wins
> > if they are not maintained properly. And it will keep getting worse
> > until a collapse kills a few hundred people. The only reason their
> > is no outrage over this on is because somehow nobody died. Day by
> > day we descend further into third world status.
>
> Well... One of the men who wound up in the water said that he saw a big rig
> > No big rig hit it. Even if it did it's supposed to be stronger than
> > that. It is typical of most bridges in this country - falling apart
> > from disrepair. All bridges defy gravity but in the end gravity wins
> > if they are not maintained properly. And it will keep getting worse
> > until a collapse kills a few hundred people. The only reason their
> > is no outrage over this on is because somehow nobody died. Day by
> > day we descend further into third world status.
>
> hit it, then there was a flash of white and then he was in the water. I
> would presume they might have some sort of camera on it and can check it
> out.
We are getting a lot more info here than I am sure others are since we
are local. I heard that the water was higher than normal, so maybe
that added to the first issue, but it was obviously the truck hitting
it that started it.
Julie Bove
May 25, 2013, 1:31:20 PM5/25/13
to
news:QC3ot.112357$BC1....@fed01.iad...
I saw a news report in the wee hours on CNN that said the bridge had been
struck before (somewhat recently) buy another big rig. Damage was sustained
(can't remember exactly what) and at that point in time, it was said (but I
can't remember who said it) that the bridge needed to be replaced right
away. But whoever is in charge of allocating the money for this determined
that things were fine and nothing needed to be done. It was in fact hit by
a big rig.
struck before (somewhat recently) buy another big rig. Damage was sustained
(can't remember exactly what) and at that point in time, it was said (but I
can't remember who said it) that the bridge needed to be replaced right
away. But whoever is in charge of allocating the money for this determined
that things were fine and nothing needed to be done. It was in fact hit by
a big rig.
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