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Column: "Why Don't My Guests Thank Me for Cooking?"
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Lenona
Aug 10, 2021, 10:53:14 AM8/10/21
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A long-overdue column. Check out the comments.
https://www.uexpress.com/life/miss-manners/2021/08/10
DEAR MISS MANNERS: I love to cook and entertain guests. It takes a lot of work to plan a menu, shop for groceries, cook and serve a delicious meal. I always ask guests in advance about any food allergies or intolerances.
But I frequently notice that although my guests will clean their plates and seem to enjoy the meal, they never comment on the food or thank me for preparing it. It seems to occur more often with guests who don't cook themselves, so they may not realize the amount of effort that goes into it.
Am I wrong to expect simple gratitude? I enjoy cooking, but the recognition and appreciation would certainly be nice. Do parents teach children food etiquette?
GENTLE READER: Parental teaching about food talk must begin with, "Nobody wants to hear that." This is because children's idea of what to say at the dinner table tends to be some variation on the theme of "Yuck!" or "Do I have to eat that?"
Some years ago, to Miss Manners' distress, it became common for adults to make similar statements. That is why hosts have learned to ask about prospective guests' medical, religious and ethical requirements, as you do.
But many don't stop at that. They may say in advance what they do want to have -- as if ordering at a restaurant -- or they may critique what is served in terms of what they believe everyone should or should not eat.
The prevalence of this kind of talk sent Miss Manners scurrying back to the days when it was considered wrong to make any remarks, even complimentary ones, about the food one was served in private homes.
Well, not quite, because one rationale for that was the assumption that a hired cook, not the host, had provided the food. It wasn't necessarily true then, but it is seldom true now. So compliments should still be allowed.
But assuming that your guests thank you properly for your general hospitality, you should not fret if the outstanding part they mention is the conversation and the company.
https://www.uexpress.com/life/miss-manners/2021/08/10
DEAR MISS MANNERS: I love to cook and entertain guests. It takes a lot of work to plan a menu, shop for groceries, cook and serve a delicious meal. I always ask guests in advance about any food allergies or intolerances.
But I frequently notice that although my guests will clean their plates and seem to enjoy the meal, they never comment on the food or thank me for preparing it. It seems to occur more often with guests who don't cook themselves, so they may not realize the amount of effort that goes into it.
Am I wrong to expect simple gratitude? I enjoy cooking, but the recognition and appreciation would certainly be nice. Do parents teach children food etiquette?
GENTLE READER: Parental teaching about food talk must begin with, "Nobody wants to hear that." This is because children's idea of what to say at the dinner table tends to be some variation on the theme of "Yuck!" or "Do I have to eat that?"
Some years ago, to Miss Manners' distress, it became common for adults to make similar statements. That is why hosts have learned to ask about prospective guests' medical, religious and ethical requirements, as you do.
But many don't stop at that. They may say in advance what they do want to have -- as if ordering at a restaurant -- or they may critique what is served in terms of what they believe everyone should or should not eat.
The prevalence of this kind of talk sent Miss Manners scurrying back to the days when it was considered wrong to make any remarks, even complimentary ones, about the food one was served in private homes.
Well, not quite, because one rationale for that was the assumption that a hired cook, not the host, had provided the food. It wasn't necessarily true then, but it is seldom true now. So compliments should still be allowed.
But assuming that your guests thank you properly for your general hospitality, you should not fret if the outstanding part they mention is the conversation and the company.
GM
Aug 10, 2021, 11:02:20 AM8/10/21
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Lenona wrote:
> A long-overdue column. Check out the comments.
>
> https://www.uexpress.com/life/miss-manners/2021/08/10
>
> DEAR MISS MANNERS: I love to cook and entertain guests. It takes a lot of work to plan a menu, shop for groceries, cook and serve a delicious meal. I always ask guests in advance about any food allergies or intolerances.
[ ... ]
> A long-overdue column. Check out the comments.
>
> https://www.uexpress.com/life/miss-manners/2021/08/10
>
> DEAR MISS MANNERS: I love to cook and entertain guests. It takes a lot of work to plan a menu, shop for groceries, cook and serve a delicious meal. I always ask guests in advance about any food allergies or intolerances.
<YAWN>
Another one of your stoopid clickbait articles...
--
GM
Lenona
Aug 10, 2021, 11:31:43 AM8/10/21
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Define "clickbait," please. It's mostly a matter of opinion, from what I can tell.
Besides, most people would agree with the reviewer of one book who said that MM "writes like a dream." As in, she's both wonderfully witty and rational.
(But these days, her two middle-aged children have been helping her, so I tend to blame any grammatical slip-ups on them.)
On top of that, plenty of people do need her help when they're treated badly and don't know how to respond. (But, she's often critical of those who write to her, likely so as to keep the trolls at bay.)
Lenona.
Besides, most people would agree with the reviewer of one book who said that MM "writes like a dream." As in, she's both wonderfully witty and rational.
(But these days, her two middle-aged children have been helping her, so I tend to blame any grammatical slip-ups on them.)
On top of that, plenty of people do need her help when they're treated badly and don't know how to respond. (But, she's often critical of those who write to her, likely so as to keep the trolls at bay.)
Lenona.
GM
Aug 10, 2021, 12:06:24 PM8/10/21
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GM
GM
Aug 10, 2021, 12:49:52 PM8/10/21
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Lenona wrote:
> Define "clickbait," please. It's mostly a matter of opinion, from what I can tell.
Actually, it's *everything* you've ever posted here, my dear...
> Define "clickbait," please. It's mostly a matter of opinion, from what I can tell.
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GM
Lenona
Aug 10, 2021, 12:56:18 PM8/10/21
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On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 12:06:24 PM UTC-4, GM wrote:
>
> >
> Does anybody under 90 read her...either that or useless housewives with too much time on their hands are her "audience"...normal - brained people don't need the likes of her, they've common sense...
>
>
First of all, in her book Miss Manners Rescues Civilization, she tackled plenty of subjects that are anything but trivial - such as sexual harassment, bigotry, censorship, deadly road rage, crime in general, etc. She explains why etiquette is, in fact, very important, since it acts like a vaccine and thus prevents the need to drag in etiquette's big brother, the Law, to fine or jail the ill-behaved.
>
> >
> Does anybody under 90 read her...either that or useless housewives with too much time on their hands are her "audience"...normal - brained people don't need the likes of her, they've common sense...
>
>
If MOST people had common sense, she wouldn't have a column to write.
Example of a young non-fan:
"Why should I have to start writing thank-you notes when no one does that anymore? That's just STUPID!"
And it may take that person ages to realize that, after a job interview, NOT writing a thank-you note is a bad mistake. (Unless their grandparents had the sense to stop sending birthday presents when they're young, saying "well, I thought you were tired of getting presents, since you never say thank you." But, as I said, too many people don't have that kind of sense.)
And while fans like George Will (who's well under 90) may not be as common as they once were, that's likely due to falling literacy rates and anti-intellectualism. However, I do wish she'd write at least one book for people whose first language isn't English. After all, that would be highly useful, not just to foreigners who find American manners and etiquette confusing, but also to children - especially when they find that she doesn't tolerate adults who are rude to children, either.
GM
Aug 10, 2021, 1:01:00 PM8/10/21
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--
GM
Dave Smith
Aug 10, 2021, 1:12:35 PM8/10/21
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On 2021-08-10 12:56 p.m., Lenona wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 12:06:24 PM UTC-4, GM wrote:
>>
>>>
>> Does anybody under 90 read her...either that or useless housewives
>> with too much time on their hands are her "audience"...normal -
>> brained people don't need the likes of her, they've common
>> sense...
>>
>>
>
> First of all, in her book Miss Manners Rescues Civilization, she
> tackled plenty of subjects that are anything but trivial - such as
> sexual harassment, bigotry, censorship, deadly road rage, crime in
> general, etc. She explains why etiquette is, in fact, very important,
> since it acts like a vaccine and thus prevents the need to drag in
> etiquette's big brother, the Law, to fine or jail the ill-behaved.
>
> If MOST people had common sense, she wouldn't have a column to
> write.
>
> Example of a young non-fan:
>
> "Why should I have to start writing thank-you notes when no one does
> that anymore? That's just STUPID!"
I have a simple solution for people not bothering to send thank you
> On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 12:06:24 PM UTC-4, GM wrote:
>>
>>>
>> Does anybody under 90 read her...either that or useless housewives
>> with too much time on their hands are her "audience"...normal -
>> brained people don't need the likes of her, they've common
>> sense...
>>
>>
>
> First of all, in her book Miss Manners Rescues Civilization, she
> tackled plenty of subjects that are anything but trivial - such as
> sexual harassment, bigotry, censorship, deadly road rage, crime in
> general, etc. She explains why etiquette is, in fact, very important,
> since it acts like a vaccine and thus prevents the need to drag in
> etiquette's big brother, the Law, to fine or jail the ill-behaved.
>
> If MOST people had common sense, she wouldn't have a column to
> write.
>
> Example of a young non-fan:
>
> "Why should I have to start writing thank-you notes when no one does
> that anymore? That's just STUPID!"
notes. Don't include them in things that might call for thank you
notes. My wife insisted on sending gifts to all our nieces and nephews.
She hung on for years despite lack of acknowledgement but eventually
stopped sending them. I don't insist on a card. An email or phone call
would suffice. At least let us know that you got it and appreciate it.
My younger brother did not have any kids of his own but always bought
nice birthday and Christmas presents for his nieces and nephews. Our
son was the only one who send a thank you. One year he stopped giving
gifts to the others. He said that he wasn't going to go to the effort
and expense to buy them presents if they can't be bothered to show some
appreciation.
Lenona
Aug 10, 2021, 1:15:37 PM8/10/21
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On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 1:01:00 PM UTC-4, GM wrote:
> Uh, don't you have common sense enough to know when to shut up...???
>
> --
> GM
If you did, you wouldn't want to sound like a spoiled teenager.
> Uh, don't you have common sense enough to know when to shut up...???
>
> --
> GM
Even if you are.
Maybe you'd prefer Amy Alkon's book - EVEN though it's more civilized than it sounds. From 2014:
"Good Manners for Nice People Who Sometimes Say F*ck"
(She's in her 50s and is a syndicated columnist - and her blog is loaded with political issues.)
Lenona
Aug 10, 2021, 1:27:15 PM8/10/21
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Good for your brother.
Even so, when it comes to presents from relatives who don't live in the house, I wouldn't be surprised if at least half of all the kids who can't be bothered to say thank you in any form really wouldn't CARE if the presents stopped.
Why? Because they likely get too much stuff from their parents already - and a lot of those presents the kids don't like much anyway. Those kids would likely be just as happy to go to restaurants and such, with their relatives.
Even so, when it comes to presents from relatives who don't live in the house, I wouldn't be surprised if at least half of all the kids who can't be bothered to say thank you in any form really wouldn't CARE if the presents stopped.
Why? Because they likely get too much stuff from their parents already - and a lot of those presents the kids don't like much anyway. Those kids would likely be just as happy to go to restaurants and such, with their relatives.
Lenona
Aug 10, 2021, 2:54:27 PM8/10/21
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Oh, yes - here's a recent, classic example of how "normal-brained" people - especially young parents - have less and LESS common sense every day, because they don't understand that some things never change, nor should they. As in, being a host, as opposed to an organizer, means that YOU'RE supposed to pay for everything.
https://www.uexpress.com/life/miss-manners/2021/08/07
DEAR MISS MANNERS: How do I word a birthday party invitation in which children don't need to bring a present but do need to pay their entrance into the facility?
GENTLE READER: Take out the words "birthday" and "party."
What you have created is a suggestion that people you know should pay to go to a public facility at the same time as you. Miss Manners is afraid that that does not qualify as an invitation. And it certainly does not solicit thoughts of adding a present.
https://www.uexpress.com/life/miss-manners/2021/08/07
DEAR MISS MANNERS: How do I word a birthday party invitation in which children don't need to bring a present but do need to pay their entrance into the facility?
GENTLE READER: Take out the words "birthday" and "party."
What you have created is a suggestion that people you know should pay to go to a public facility at the same time as you. Miss Manners is afraid that that does not qualify as an invitation. And it certainly does not solicit thoughts of adding a present.
GM
Aug 10, 2021, 3:03:06 PM8/10/21
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--
GM
Dave Smith
Aug 10, 2021, 3:09:11 PM8/10/21
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birthday presents to all my nieces and nephews and delivered them in
time for the events. My older brother had four kids, so I was buying 4
for each occasion, a total of 8 presents. Never a thank you. They kept
forgetting my son's birthday, even though he was born a week after one
of their sons. So one year I got fed up and decided to stop buying
presents for my brothers' kids.
I explained it to my mother and she suggested that we could do the old
$5 gift exchange that my father's family always did and had a lot of fun
with. My SiL was upset about that. She thought it was totally unfair
because she had to buy $5 presents on behalf of her four kids while out
oldest brother only had to buy 2 on behalf of his kids and I only had to
buy one. Those four $5 gifts in total were less than we would had been
spending on each of her kids. It saved me a chunk of cash.
No surprise that we had whining from the kids about there not being
Christmas presents and lots of hints about them having a birthday coming
up. In that branch of the family Christmas and birthdays were times to
get presents, but it never occurred to them to give.
itsjoan...@webtv.net
Aug 10, 2021, 3:38:16 PM8/10/21
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On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 2:03:06 PM UTC-5, GM wrote:
>
> How much per word does Miss Manners pay you...a penny, or...???
>
> --
> GM
>
Yes, she does post click bait drivel but be careful Greg. Watch your step
>
> How much per word does Miss Manners pay you...a penny, or...???
>
> --
> GM
>
or she'll be asking "How can I make cornbread dressing with a bag of
leftover Fritos and a can of chicken?"
Ed Pawlowski
Aug 10, 2021, 3:44:08 PM8/10/21
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daily newspaper.
Run an ad blocker and the click bait subsides quite a bit.
bruce bowser
Aug 10, 2021, 4:21:31 PM8/10/21
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On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 1:15:37 PM UTC-4, Lenona wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 1:01:00 PM UTC-4, GM wrote:
>
> > Uh, don't you have common sense enough to know when to shut up...???
> >
> > --
> > GM
> If you did, you wouldn't want to sound like a spoiled teenager.
That's just what he was. A spoiled Virginia teenager.
> On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 1:01:00 PM UTC-4, GM wrote:
>
> > Uh, don't you have common sense enough to know when to shut up...???
> >
> > --
> > GM
> If you did, you wouldn't want to sound like a spoiled teenager.
bruce bowser
Aug 10, 2021, 4:22:23 PM8/10/21
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GM
Aug 10, 2021, 5:19:44 PM8/10/21
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line", bb...AND she makes me vote Republican...!!!
;-D
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GM
Lenona
Aug 10, 2021, 9:51:05 PM8/10/21
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On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 3:38:16 PM UTC-4, itsjoannotjoann wrote:
> >
> Yes, she does post click bait drivel but be careful Greg. Watch your step
> or she'll be asking "How can I make cornbread dressing with a bag of
> leftover Fritos and a can of chicken?"
Or, of course, I might ask how to make the pies from "Titus Andronicus" - from more questionable ingredients, for those who don't know.
> >
> Yes, she does post click bait drivel but be careful Greg. Watch your step
> or she'll be asking "How can I make cornbread dressing with a bag of
> leftover Fritos and a can of chicken?"
GM
Aug 10, 2021, 10:01:29 PM8/10/21
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--
GM
Gary
Aug 12, 2021, 10:14:42 AM8/12/21
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dsi1
Aug 12, 2021, 1:26:45 PM8/12/21
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bruce bowser
Aug 12, 2021, 5:23:16 PM8/12/21
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Hank Rogers
Aug 12, 2021, 5:35:35 PM8/12/21
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What does it mean when the asian guest stands and urinates on his
plate and marches out?
dsi1
Aug 12, 2021, 5:55:00 PM8/12/21
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Lenona
Aug 14, 2021, 9:41:23 PM8/14/21
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On Thursday, August 12, 2021 at 1:26:45 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> If people say nothing about one's cooking, it means they think you're a somewhat below average cook. If they regularly say that you should open a restaurant, it means you're a pretty good cook. If you're Korean, then it's culturally important that you make glowing comments about the food or it's a big insult. A person that complains about people not complimenting their cooking probably needs a reality check.
Well, yes, it's true that in the new America, a lack of compliments for a home-cooked meal implies that the cooking wasn't that good. (The easiest thing, of course, is to stick to recipes you've had a lot of practice with. One dessert I've probably made a hundred times by now is devil's food cake with seven-minute icing. I don't understand how anyone can prefer buttercream icing; with that, you can FEEL yourself getting fatter with every bite, so I can't stand that. I've also made chocolate-raspberry truffle ice cream once or twice, but it's a bit labor intensive. However, it turned out fine.)
> If people say nothing about one's cooking, it means they think you're a somewhat below average cook. If they regularly say that you should open a restaurant, it means you're a pretty good cook. If you're Korean, then it's culturally important that you make glowing comments about the food or it's a big insult. A person that complains about people not complimenting their cooking probably needs a reality check.
But this is yet another reason it just might be a good idea to go back to the old system of not commenting either way. The reason for that is the same as for the old rule that said that married couples should not hold hands in public. Why did that rule exist? Because everyone would notice as soon as the couple STOPPED holding hands - which would be very embarrassing to the couple. (I think JFK followed that rule - and, of course, he had plenty to be embarrassed about, so I can imagine Jackie didn't want to hold hands anyway.)
dsi1
Aug 14, 2021, 10:06:25 PM8/14/21
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These days, when I get some pretty good food at a restaurant, I like letting the chef know and chat a little with them. It's quite an enjoyable thing to do. I think it's important to do that when you get a chance.
Ophelia
Aug 15, 2021, 6:07:20 AM8/15/21
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It's always good to make people feel good:)))
Ophelia
Aug 15, 2021, 6:24:11 AM8/15/21
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I know that would make him feel keen good ;););)
And maybe give 'im a gander at me knickers, too, lol!!!
<vbg>
Ophelia
Aug 15, 2021, 12:47:40 PM8/15/21
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I did NOT write that!!!
>
dsi1
Aug 15, 2021, 1:28:48 PM8/15/21
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dsi1
Aug 15, 2021, 1:29:20 PM8/15/21
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Hank Rogers
Aug 15, 2021, 1:47:10 PM8/15/21
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Bruce 3.1
Aug 15, 2021, 4:00:25 PM8/15/21
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Ophelia
Aug 15, 2021, 4:22:07 PM8/15/21
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Aww that's a shame/
Ophelia
Aug 15, 2021, 4:22:39 PM8/15/21
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OK:)
dsi1
Aug 15, 2021, 4:39:14 PM8/15/21
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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/97/Johns_Yorkshire_Puddings.jpg/1200px-Johns_Yorkshire_Puddings.jpg
Bruce 3.1
Aug 15, 2021, 4:44:19 PM8/15/21
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On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 13:39:10 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
Oh, they ARE doggos as well. I've never had the pudding version.
Actually, I don't know if I ever had any kind of pudding. Not in the
past 40 years.
Actually, I don't know if I ever had any kind of pudding. Not in the
past 40 years.
GM
Aug 15, 2021, 4:47:34 PM8/15/21
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dsi1 wrote:
We're lucky in America - we know what a pudding is and we don't have to eat Christmas pudding during the holidays. We should rejoice to get off so easy with fruit cake.
>
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/97/Johns_Yorkshire_Puddings.jpg/1200px-Johns_Yorkshire_Puddings.jpg
Your *brain* is a "pudding", Poi Boi...plus which you a most definitely in the
We're lucky in America - we know what a pudding is and we don't have to eat Christmas pudding during the holidays. We should rejoice to get off so easy with fruit cake.
>
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/97/Johns_Yorkshire_Puddings.jpg/1200px-Johns_Yorkshire_Puddings.jpg
"fruit cake" category, speaking generally...
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GM
dsi1
Aug 15, 2021, 5:26:49 PM8/15/21
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWoXQSfQkDg
Bruce 3.1
Aug 15, 2021, 5:30:57 PM8/15/21
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On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 14:26:45 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
The Dutch eat pudding too. It was just not a thing in my half
Indonesian oriented family.
Indonesian oriented family.
dsi1
Aug 15, 2021, 5:33:15 PM8/15/21
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Bruce 3.1
Aug 15, 2021, 5:39:49 PM8/15/21
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On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 14:33:12 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
In Dutch pudding's called pudding.
dsi1
Aug 15, 2021, 7:49:37 PM8/15/21
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Bruce 3.1
Aug 15, 2021, 8:43:08 PM8/15/21
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On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 16:49:34 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
Well, we take words from other languages but give you apartheid in
return.
return.
Lenona
Aug 16, 2021, 12:03:36 AM8/16/21
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On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 5:26:49 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> Only the Brits and the yanks eat pudding.
But, at least since WWII (maybe a lot earlier) we Yanks only refer to very specific items as "pudding." (However, I had the impression that suffragist Elizabeth Cady Stanton, maybe a century and a half ago, used the term in the British sense, and there was no reason to believe that that made her unusual.)
> Only the Brits and the yanks eat pudding.
The American humorist/journalist Jane Walmsley wrote the book Brit-Think, Ameri-Think in the 1980s (there was also a revised edition about 20 years ago). She had some dos and don'ts for tourists on both sides of the ocean. One, for Brits, was:
"Don't call dessert 'pudding.' ('What's for pudding?') They won't understand, and they'll think YOU'RE one."
Michael Trew
Aug 16, 2021, 11:26:50 PM8/16/21
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On 8/14/2021 9:41 PM, Lenona wrote:
> I don't understand how anyone can prefer buttercream icing; with that, you can FEEL yourself getting fatter with every bite, so I can't stand that.
Self control is key. I rarely make frosting, but if I do, it's almost
> I don't understand how anyone can prefer buttercream icing; with that, you can FEEL yourself getting fatter with every bite, so I can't stand that.
always homemade buttercream. I use salted butter, it cuts the
sweetness. I much prefer it to any commercial frosting. It's always a
hit; I make it at least once per year for my daughter's birthday cake.
Michael Trew
Aug 16, 2021, 11:26:50 PM8/16/21
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Gary
Aug 17, 2021, 9:04:24 AM8/17/21
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Ophelia
Aug 17, 2021, 11:24:06 AM8/17/21
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Nahh I can see how you would think so.. That was my Troll again:(((
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