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Computers in restaurants and coffee shops
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Ed Pawlowski
Jun 2, 2012, 5:34:10 PM6/2/12
to
This afternoon we stopped for lunch at a Panera Brad. They, like many
places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
It was about 1:30 on a busy Saturday in a shopping center. A bit past
the prime noon lunch, but on a Saturday, places like that are usually
busy anyway. I ordered for us while my wife tried to find a seat.
Just before our food arrived she did find a table, but others were not
so lucky.
At one corner of the store, three people seemed to have set up shop.
one utilized a table for two, the others utilized tables that could
seat four, a total of ten seats. By the looks of things, they had
been there for some time and planned to say a while longer. Assuming
they did buy some food and/or beverage, that was finished.
Personally, I thought it ignorant to continue to live in their private
corner while others were not able to sit and enjoy a meal. Offering
Wi-Fi may attract some customers, but it is sending others away. If I
ever go back there, it will only be during off hours when plenty of
seats are available.
Seems that stores should put some restrictions in place. They may
have sole $3 in coffee to these people, but they lose that $20 lunch
tab, maybe a couple if times during the busy hours.
People that spend hours at a computer in a coffee shop seem to be a
strange lot anyway.
places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
It was about 1:30 on a busy Saturday in a shopping center. A bit past
the prime noon lunch, but on a Saturday, places like that are usually
busy anyway. I ordered for us while my wife tried to find a seat.
Just before our food arrived she did find a table, but others were not
so lucky.
At one corner of the store, three people seemed to have set up shop.
one utilized a table for two, the others utilized tables that could
seat four, a total of ten seats. By the looks of things, they had
been there for some time and planned to say a while longer. Assuming
they did buy some food and/or beverage, that was finished.
Personally, I thought it ignorant to continue to live in their private
corner while others were not able to sit and enjoy a meal. Offering
Wi-Fi may attract some customers, but it is sending others away. If I
ever go back there, it will only be during off hours when plenty of
seats are available.
Seems that stores should put some restrictions in place. They may
have sole $3 in coffee to these people, but they lose that $20 lunch
tab, maybe a couple if times during the busy hours.
People that spend hours at a computer in a coffee shop seem to be a
strange lot anyway.
merryb
Jun 2, 2012, 5:38:02 PM6/2/12
to
guy with 2 laptops set up and was playing D & D! We all thought it was
pretty funny...
Dave Smith
Jun 2, 2012, 6:30:45 PM6/2/12
to
like some places. Tim Hortons and their mediocre coffee and donuts
rules... fast food.. get it at the drive thru or inside with their 20
minute seating rule. Starbucks is a better choice for good coffee, but
there is often no seating available. Most of the tables (for two or
more) are taken up by people sitting there with laptops. While the
franchise may figure that offering free wifi attracts coffee drinking
customers, my feeling is that the people it attracts take up the space
of other customers who would have a higher turnover rate. A table might
be used by 4-12 people per hour rather than the one wifi user who sits
there for two hours.
We had a similar type of problem at a coffee shop in town. They had
good coffee and interesting fresh baked items but limited seating. In
one corner there was a play area large enough for two more tables. I
suggested to the owner that he get rid of the play area and put in two
more tables. Oh no... couldn't do that. The women who came in with their
kids would freak. There was one or two groups of women who used to to
go in on a regular basis. They would have a coffee and set their kids
loose to play (or fight) with each other. They would be there for an
hour or two nursing their coffees while they and the kids took up all
the space. It is not the first place that I avoided because there was
no seating and certainly not the first I avoided because of the rug
rats running free.
It went under.
George
Jun 2, 2012, 7:23:08 PM6/2/12
to
"free" comes with qualifications such as using courtesy and common
sense. Others don't.
Big box outfits like Panera tend to be cheap. There is captive portal
software that is available where they could issue a pass code on the
receipt that is good for a certain length of time. Likely the mooches
would protest the limitations on "their" WiFi...
dsi1
Jun 2, 2012, 7:45:21 PM6/2/12
to
to linger myself but I think coffee shops do more business with people
sitting in their shops than if they're empty. They probably want to
encourage patrons to see their location as a part of a daily routine.
Additionally, a lot of old folk will start out the day by going to a
designated restaurant every day and lingering with friends. Obviously, a
lot of restaurants would like to get a piece of that action.
A strategy like this wouldn't work if there's not ample seating but
having a bunch of unfilled seats is probably very depressing to a
business guy.
Dave Smith
Jun 2, 2012, 8:01:28 PM6/2/12
to
On 02/06/2012 7:45 PM, dsi1 wrote:
trange lot anyway.
>
> It's a new strategy where people are encouraged to linger. I don't like
> to linger myself but I think coffee shops do more business with people
> sitting in their shops than if they're empty. They probably want to
> encourage patrons to see their location as a part of a daily routine.
>
> Additionally, a lot of old folk will start out the day by going to a
> designated restaurant every day and lingering with friends. Obviously, a
> lot of restaurants would like to get a piece of that action.
>
> A strategy like this wouldn't work if there's not ample seating but
> having a bunch of unfilled seats is probably very depressing to a
> business guy.
Lingering customers can be a curse. Personally, I prefer quiet places.
trange lot anyway.
>
> It's a new strategy where people are encouraged to linger. I don't like
> to linger myself but I think coffee shops do more business with people
> sitting in their shops than if they're empty. They probably want to
> encourage patrons to see their location as a part of a daily routine.
>
> Additionally, a lot of old folk will start out the day by going to a
> designated restaurant every day and lingering with friends. Obviously, a
> lot of restaurants would like to get a piece of that action.
>
> A strategy like this wouldn't work if there's not ample seating but
> having a bunch of unfilled seats is probably very depressing to a
> business guy.
The fewer people the better. I can read my newspaper and do my crossword
in peace. A lot of people seem to have more of a herd mentality and are
drawn to places with a lot of people in them.
There used to be a mom and pop restaurant in a country location not too
far from our town. I used to stop there for coffee breaks and meals if I
was working in the area. The food was great and prices were low. The
problem for them seemed to be the bottomless cup of coffee. It was
popular with the local farmers. Those guys would come in after 8 am and
have breakfast and a half dozen cups of coffee. While they were quite
sociable, they usually sat one per table and carried on conversations
across the room. The restaurant ended up with 4 or more table taken up
for two hours or more by people who had eaten long ago and were mooching
the free coffee, so there was no room for paying customers.
George M. Middius
Jun 2, 2012, 8:17:37 PM6/2/12
to
dsi1 wrote:
> Additionally, a lot of old folk will start out the day by going to a
> designated restaurant every day and lingering with friends. Obviously, a
> lot of restaurants would like to get a piece of that action.
How 'bout them ay-rabs? They hang out at bookstores all day. In good
> Additionally, a lot of old folk will start out the day by going to a
> designated restaurant every day and lingering with friends. Obviously, a
> lot of restaurants would like to get a piece of that action.
weather, they fill up the sidewalk tables from opening till closing.
And I'm not talking oldsters, either -- these are guys who should be
at their jobs. They sit around all day drinking bad coffee. Just like
in Cairo or Beirut.
Pennyaline
Jun 2, 2012, 9:06:51 PM6/2/12
to
On 6/2/2012 5:23 PM, George wrote:
> Thats always been the problem with "free stuff". Most people understand
> "free" comes with qualifications such as using courtesy and common
> sense. Others don't.
Here emerges the old fart in me. I'm not so sure that "most people"
> Thats always been the problem with "free stuff". Most people understand
> "free" comes with qualifications such as using courtesy and common
> sense. Others don't.
understand that "free" comes with qualifications, responsibilities and
limits. I think that these days most don't recognize "free" services as
a mutually beneficial pact between owner and customer, and instead adopt
the attitude that what's being offered is solely intended to be theirs
for the taking. That these shops and stores continue to cater to them
and kiss their asses to attract foot traffic doesn't help to dispel that
attitude of entitlement one little bit.
> Big box outfits like Panera tend to be cheap. There is captive portal
> software that is available where they could issue a pass code on the
> receipt that is good for a certain length of time. Likely the mooches
> would protest the limitations on "their" WiFi...
to have to get up, pack up their whatevers and make way for the next
paying customer.
Kalmia
Jun 2, 2012, 9:21:20 PM6/2/12
to
Ed Pawlowski
Jun 2, 2012, 10:31:56 PM6/2/12
to
On Sat, 02 Jun 2012 19:23:08 -0400, George <geo...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
>
>Big box outfits like Panera tend to be cheap. There is captive portal
>software that is available where they could issue a pass code on the
>receipt that is good for a certain length of time. Likely the mooches
>would protest the limitations on "their" WiFi...
That would be a very acceptable method. When I used to travel, pagers
were just becoming popular so we did not have options like today. If
I had them, sure, I'd check my email during lunch or stop for a snack,
but most times I'd be moving again in 20 or 30 minutes and not hogging
a table for the afternoon. Today, I can sit out in the parking lot
and have a signal.
Times have changed. My daughter is on a job hunt. She had one
interview at a Dunkin Donuts, another at a sandwich shop, a third at
Burger King. And this is for a management position?
wrote:
>
>Big box outfits like Panera tend to be cheap. There is captive portal
>software that is available where they could issue a pass code on the
>receipt that is good for a certain length of time. Likely the mooches
>would protest the limitations on "their" WiFi...
were just becoming popular so we did not have options like today. If
I had them, sure, I'd check my email during lunch or stop for a snack,
but most times I'd be moving again in 20 or 30 minutes and not hogging
a table for the afternoon. Today, I can sit out in the parking lot
and have a signal.
Times have changed. My daughter is on a job hunt. She had one
interview at a Dunkin Donuts, another at a sandwich shop, a third at
Burger King. And this is for a management position?
Ed Pawlowski
Jun 2, 2012, 10:37:16 PM6/2/12
to
On Sat, 02 Jun 2012 13:45:21 -1000, dsi1 <dsi...@hawaiiantel.net>
wrote:
>
>It's a new strategy where people are encouraged to linger. I don't like
>to linger myself but I think coffee shops do more business with people
>sitting in their shops than if they're empty. They probably want to
>encourage patrons to see their location as a part of a daily routine.
>
>Additionally, a lot of old folk will start out the day by going to a
>designated restaurant every day and lingering with friends. Obviously, a
>lot of restaurants would like to get a piece of that action.
>
>A strategy like this wouldn't work if there's not ample seating but
>having a bunch of unfilled seats is probably very depressing to a
>business guy.
I can see that working in some places, McDonald's always has a group
or seniors at breakfast time. They also have lots of empty seats for
other customers. We sometimes stop for breakfast when I take my wife
for blood work. At 66/65, there are days we are the youngest there!
wrote:
>
>It's a new strategy where people are encouraged to linger. I don't like
>to linger myself but I think coffee shops do more business with people
>sitting in their shops than if they're empty. They probably want to
>encourage patrons to see their location as a part of a daily routine.
>
>Additionally, a lot of old folk will start out the day by going to a
>designated restaurant every day and lingering with friends. Obviously, a
>lot of restaurants would like to get a piece of that action.
>
>A strategy like this wouldn't work if there's not ample seating but
>having a bunch of unfilled seats is probably very depressing to a
>business guy.
or seniors at breakfast time. They also have lots of empty seats for
other customers. We sometimes stop for breakfast when I take my wife
for blood work. At 66/65, there are days we are the youngest there!
Ed Pawlowski
Jun 2, 2012, 10:39:23 PM6/2/12
to
On Sat, 2 Jun 2012 18:21:20 -0700 (PDT), Kalmia
<tween...@mypacks.net> wrote:
>
>What's next - confessionals and mortuaries?
Put in free Wi-Fi and they will come.
<tween...@mypacks.net> wrote:
>
>What's next - confessionals and mortuaries?
Julie Bove
Jun 3, 2012, 12:29:57 AM6/3/12
to
"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:7h0ls75s8eel522n7...@4ax.com...
Wendy's. We just went there after trying two other places (not fast food)
that were packed. It was getting later and later and we were hungry.
Wendy's was about our only other choice in the area because we knew the
other places would be busy.
Wendy's was pretty packed too but we did get a table. Then some kid came in
with a Risk game. He set it up and a man (who we assumed was his dad) sat
down and they began to play. They hadn't ordered any food or drink. My mom
thought it was adorable. She surmised that the child was a product of
divorced parents and that he was meeting with his dad at a neutral place. I
just thought it was rude!
Another time at that same Wendy's we saw a teenaged couple eating. They did
buy food in there. But the guy had brought a white fabric tablecloth, fine
china and silverware to eat it on. They were dressed formally. That was
just kind of weird.
Julie Bove
Jun 3, 2012, 12:31:51 AM6/3/12
to
"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:Zuwyr.65463$t95....@unlimited.newshosting.com...
before I came across one where moms could go and let kids play. They didn't
seem to have much of a menu. It was mostly kid food.
Cheryl
Jun 3, 2012, 1:21:58 AM6/3/12
to
On 6/2/2012 5:34 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Seems that stores should put some restrictions in place. They may
> have sole $3 in coffee to these people, but they lose that $20 lunch
> tab, maybe a couple if times during the busy hours.
I read that some of those places are removing power outlets to
> Seems that stores should put some restrictions in place. They may
> have sole $3 in coffee to these people, but they lose that $20 lunch
> tab, maybe a couple if times during the busy hours.
discourage sitting and sitting forever. They can only sit until their
battery dies. I guess they could bring a spare and double their time,
but I agree, it's very rude.
dsi1
Jun 3, 2012, 3:47:15 AM6/3/12
to
On 6/2/2012 2:01 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>
> Lingering customers can be a curse. Personally, I prefer quiet places.
> The fewer people the better. I can read my newspaper and do my crossword
> in peace. A lot of people seem to have more of a herd mentality and are
> drawn to places with a lot of people in them.
>
> There used to be a mom and pop restaurant in a country location not too
> far from our town. I used to stop there for coffee breaks and meals if I
> was working in the area. The food was great and prices were low. The
> problem for them seemed to be the bottomless cup of coffee. It was
> popular with the local farmers. Those guys would come in after 8 am and
> have breakfast and a half dozen cups of coffee. While they were quite
> sociable, they usually sat one per table and carried on conversations
> across the room. The restaurant ended up with 4 or more table taken up
> for two hours or more by people who had eaten long ago and were mooching
> the free coffee, so there was no room for paying customers.
You have to have a different mindset than usual to want to your
>
>
> Lingering customers can be a curse. Personally, I prefer quiet places.
> The fewer people the better. I can read my newspaper and do my crossword
> in peace. A lot of people seem to have more of a herd mentality and are
> drawn to places with a lot of people in them.
>
> There used to be a mom and pop restaurant in a country location not too
> far from our town. I used to stop there for coffee breaks and meals if I
> was working in the area. The food was great and prices were low. The
> problem for them seemed to be the bottomless cup of coffee. It was
> popular with the local farmers. Those guys would come in after 8 am and
> have breakfast and a half dozen cups of coffee. While they were quite
> sociable, they usually sat one per table and carried on conversations
> across the room. The restaurant ended up with 4 or more table taken up
> for two hours or more by people who had eaten long ago and were mooching
> the free coffee, so there was no room for paying customers.
customers feel comfortable and welcome and have your establishment seen
as a meeting place instead of focusing on how much money you can rake
in. Personally, I'd rather run the former than the latter.
Gary
Jun 3, 2012, 5:37:22 AM6/3/12
to
Julie Bove wrote:
>
> Another time at that same Wendy's we saw a teenaged couple eating. They did
> buy food in there. But the guy had brought a white fabric tablecloth, fine
> china and silverware to eat it on. They were dressed formally. That was
> just kind of weird.
LMAO! I love it. A typical teenager "let's freak ppl out" thing to do.
>
> Another time at that same Wendy's we saw a teenaged couple eating. They did
> buy food in there. But the guy had brought a white fabric tablecloth, fine
> china and silverware to eat it on. They were dressed formally. That was
> just kind of weird.
Gary
George Leppla
Jun 3, 2012, 8:29:12 AM6/3/12
to
On 6/2/2012 6:45 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> It's a new strategy where people are encouraged to linger. I don't like
> to linger myself but I think coffee shops do more business with people
> sitting in their shops than if they're empty. They probably want to
> encourage patrons to see their location as a part of a daily routine.
>
> Additionally, a lot of old folk will start out the day by going to a
> designated restaurant every day and lingering with friends. Obviously, a
> lot of restaurants would like to get a piece of that action.
They are called "ROMEOS"... Retired Old men Eating Out.
> It's a new strategy where people are encouraged to linger. I don't like
> to linger myself but I think coffee shops do more business with people
> sitting in their shops than if they're empty. They probably want to
> encourage patrons to see their location as a part of a daily routine.
>
> Additionally, a lot of old folk will start out the day by going to a
> designated restaurant every day and lingering with friends. Obviously, a
> lot of restaurants would like to get a piece of that action.
George L
George Leppla
Jun 3, 2012, 8:31:53 AM6/3/12
to
On 6/2/2012 9:31 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Times have changed. My daughter is on a job hunt. She had one
> interview at a Dunkin Donuts, another at a sandwich shop, a third at
> Burger King. And this is for a management position?
Probably interviewed by a District or Regional Manager. They do
> Times have changed. My daughter is on a job hunt. She had one
> interview at a Dunkin Donuts, another at a sandwich shop, a third at
> Burger King. And this is for a management position?
interviews like this instead of at a local property of their own so
their employees don't know they are looking for new people.
George L
George Leppla
Jun 3, 2012, 8:36:27 AM6/3/12
to
On 6/2/2012 9:37 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> I can see that working in some places, McDonald's always has a group
> or seniors at breakfast time. They also have lots of empty seats for
> other customers. We sometimes stop for breakfast when I take my wife
> for blood work. At 66/65, there are days we are the youngest there!
McDonald's also has free WiFi if you are on AT&T. Very handy to
> I can see that working in some places, McDonald's always has a group
> or seniors at breakfast time. They also have lots of empty seats for
> other customers. We sometimes stop for breakfast when I take my wife
> for blood work. At 66/65, there are days we are the youngest there!
download email when you are on the road.
I love free WiFi access in restaurants. Last year I was on a Royal
Caribbean cruise and in Cozumel, Senor Frogs offers free WiFi. I sat
there on the water with a plate of nachos and a drink and caught up with
my email and actually sold a cruise to a customer in NJ. Now that is
the way to work!
George L
notbob
Jun 3, 2012, 8:43:11 AM6/3/12
to
On 2012-06-03, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
> a table for the afternoon. Today, I can sit out in the parking lot
> and have a signal.
Watch out, Ed! Ppl have been busted fer that:
> a table for the afternoon. Today, I can sit out in the parking lot
> and have a signal.
<http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2007/05/michigan-man-arrested-for-using-cafes-free-wifi-from-his-car/>
...or...
http://tinyurl.com/6v9lo3g
nb
--
vi --the heart of evil!
Support labeling GMOs
<http://www.labelgmos.org/>
notbob
Jun 3, 2012, 8:57:28 AM6/3/12
to
On 2012-06-03, George Leppla <geo...@cruisemaster.com> wrote:
>
> They are called "ROMEOS"... Retired Old men Eating Out.
Yeah. They sit in the corner, all alone, in a public place. What's
>
> They are called "ROMEOS"... Retired Old men Eating Out.
that all about!?. If I'm gonna be alone ....once a treasured treat
and now a future dream!.... I'd much rather do in in the privacy and
comfort of my own abode. If I go to a public place, it's to
socialize, like a local pub. Have a couple pints, ogle some babes,
chat it up, maybe make a new friend.
Wifi is a whole 'nuther thing. With the US's insanely expensive
broadband rates, I can see going to an eating establishment fer
internet access. Young folks and geezers on fixed incomes can't
afford the luxury of paying upwards of $50-100 per mo fer high speed
internet. Sometimes free wifi is the only alternative.
notbob
Jun 3, 2012, 9:01:16 AM6/3/12
to
On 2012-06-02, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
> This afternoon we stopped for lunch at a Panera Brad. They, like many
> places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
The resto makes that choice. Wifi or more customers or more
> This afternoon we stopped for lunch at a Panera Brad. They, like many
> places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
seating. Like you said, if they don't know how to do it....
Also, no one is forcing them to leaving their wifi on all the time. I
can turn my router off with the touch of a switch.
George
Jun 3, 2012, 9:57:11 AM6/3/12
to
On 6/2/2012 10:31 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jun 2012 19:23:08 -0400, George<geo...@nospam.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> Big box outfits like Panera tend to be cheap. There is captive portal
>> software that is available where they could issue a pass code on the
>> receipt that is good for a certain length of time. Likely the mooches
>> would protest the limitations on "their" WiFi...
>
> That would be a very acceptable method. When I used to travel, pagers
> were just becoming popular so we did not have options like today. If
> I had them, sure, I'd check my email during lunch or stop for a snack,
> but most times I'd be moving again in 20 or 30 minutes and not hogging
> a table for the afternoon. Today, I can sit out in the parking lot
> and have a signal.
Or anywhere you have cell signal if you are a typical smartphone or
> On Sat, 02 Jun 2012 19:23:08 -0400, George<geo...@nospam.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> Big box outfits like Panera tend to be cheap. There is captive portal
>> software that is available where they could issue a pass code on the
>> receipt that is good for a certain length of time. Likely the mooches
>> would protest the limitations on "their" WiFi...
>
> That would be a very acceptable method. When I used to travel, pagers
> were just becoming popular so we did not have options like today. If
> I had them, sure, I'd check my email during lunch or stop for a snack,
> but most times I'd be moving again in 20 or 30 minutes and not hogging
> a table for the afternoon. Today, I can sit out in the parking lot
> and have a signal.
tablet user with an embedded cellular radio. And the big plus is you
don't need to be concerned with insecure WiFi and rouge access points.
>
> Times have changed. My daughter is on a job hunt. She had one
> interview at a Dunkin Donuts, another at a sandwich shop, a third at
> Burger King. And this is for a management position?
local outfit (around 900 employees) and she has one person who works for
her who does phone interviews all day. The candidates she chooses are
then invited in to the main office for an interview. I often work at a
location (about 100 employees) where the HR manager is a friend and they
do the same thing. In the case of management positions they would put
candidates on a short list. In the first case they would be invited back
to talk to the GM and in the second case to the owner.
George
Jun 3, 2012, 10:04:18 AM6/3/12
to
comfortable and welcome about walking into a restaurant, making a
purchase and finding there is no place to sit because eight people are
camped out there for the day to use the "free" WifI?
As far as being a meeting place isn't it a standard idea for a lot of
places to offer rooms for private dining and banquets? That way you have
exclusive use of a space intended for the purpose and other customers
can efficiently come and go.
Ed Pawlowski
Jun 3, 2012, 10:16:18 AM6/3/12
to
On 3 Jun 2012 12:43:11 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>On 2012-06-03, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>
>> a table for the afternoon. Today, I can sit out in the parking lot
>> and have a signal.
>
>Watch out, Ed! Ppl have been busted fer that:
>
><http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2007/05/michigan-man-arrested-for-using-cafes-free-wifi-from-his-car/>
>
>...or...
>
>http://tinyurl.com/6v9lo3g
>
>
>nb
Ouch, that can hurt. I can sort of see a private setup, but even the
>On 2012-06-03, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>
>> a table for the afternoon. Today, I can sit out in the parking lot
>> and have a signal.
>
>Watch out, Ed! Ppl have been busted fer that:
>
><http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2007/05/michigan-man-arrested-for-using-cafes-free-wifi-from-his-car/>
>
>...or...
>
>http://tinyurl.com/6v9lo3g
>
>
>nb
library? They put it there to be available don't they? If I did it
at a restaurant, I'd at least go in and buy a coffee or soda first.
(and then use the restroom)
On my drive home from work one day, I noticed my phone picked up a
signal. Curious, I left it to see if any more came up. There were
at least four unsecured networks I could have hopped on. Probably
dozens more if I drove around town.
notbob
Jun 3, 2012, 10:29:40 AM6/3/12
to
On 2012-06-03, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
> at least four unsecured networks I could have hopped on. Probably
> dozens more if I drove around town.
Yep. It's called "war driving".
> at least four unsecured networks I could have hopped on. Probably
> dozens more if I drove around town.
I once set up in a cafe and noticed another buncha wifi networks
available. Musta been 3-4 dozen. I was close to a local college.
sf
Jun 3, 2012, 10:58:46 AM6/3/12
to
On Sat, 2 Jun 2012 21:31:51 -0700, "Julie Bove"
<juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
> When I was looking online for restaurants around here that we hadn't been to
> before I came across one where moms could go and let kids play. They didn't
> seem to have much of a menu. It was mostly kid food.
Sounds like Chuck E Cheese.
<juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
> When I was looking online for restaurants around here that we hadn't been to
> before I came across one where moms could go and let kids play. They didn't
> seem to have much of a menu. It was mostly kid food.
--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.
sf
Jun 3, 2012, 11:04:35 AM6/3/12
to
On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 10:04:18 -0400, George <geo...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
If it's a coffee shop, there is no back room. Personally, I couldn't
be one of those campers if I was working on anything serious, like a
job or writing a thesis because I need it quiet around me to get real
work done. I don't even listen to music.
wrote:
be one of those campers if I was working on anything serious, like a
job or writing a thesis because I need it quiet around me to get real
work done. I don't even listen to music.
Janet
Jun 3, 2012, 11:09:29 AM6/3/12
to
In article <7h0ls75s8eel522n7...@4ax.com>, e...@snet.net
says...
Janet
says...
>
> This afternoon we stopped for lunch at a Panera Brad. They, like many
> places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
>
> This afternoon we stopped for lunch at a Panera Brad. They, like many
> places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
>
> It was about 1:30 on a busy Saturday in a shopping center. A bit past
> the prime noon lunch, but on a Saturday, places like that are usually
> busy anyway. I ordered for us while my wife tried to find a seat.
> Just before our food arrived she did find a table, but others were not
> so lucky.
>
> At one corner of the store, three people seemed to have set up shop.
> one utilized a table for two, the others utilized tables that could
> seat four, a total of ten seats. By the looks of things, they had
> been there for some time and planned to say a while longer. Assuming
> they did buy some food and/or beverage, that was finished.
>
> Personally, I thought it ignorant to continue to live in their private
> corner while others were not able to sit and enjoy a meal. Offering
> Wi-Fi may attract some customers, but it is sending others away.
I hope you made that point to the manager.
> the prime noon lunch, but on a Saturday, places like that are usually
> busy anyway. I ordered for us while my wife tried to find a seat.
> Just before our food arrived she did find a table, but others were not
> so lucky.
>
> At one corner of the store, three people seemed to have set up shop.
> one utilized a table for two, the others utilized tables that could
> seat four, a total of ten seats. By the looks of things, they had
> been there for some time and planned to say a while longer. Assuming
> they did buy some food and/or beverage, that was finished.
>
> Personally, I thought it ignorant to continue to live in their private
> corner while others were not able to sit and enjoy a meal. Offering
> Wi-Fi may attract some customers, but it is sending others away.
Janet
Janet
Jun 3, 2012, 11:09:30 AM6/3/12
to
In article <qhjls75gljmu10id2...@4ax.com>, e...@snet.net
says...
Why not confess online from the comfort of the den of iniquity?
Janet
says...
Janet
Janet
Jun 3, 2012, 11:09:30 AM6/3/12
to
In article <ioils7lcoap0d98t3...@4ax.com>, e...@snet.net
says...
> Times have changed. My daughter is on a job hunt. She had one
> interview at a Dunkin Donuts, another at a sandwich shop, a third at
> Burger King. And this is for a management position?
Why not? Nobody got their first management job at the top of the ladder;
the best managers often started on the flat and moved up one rung at a
time acquiring wide and varied experience.
Janet.
says...
> Times have changed. My daughter is on a job hunt. She had one
> interview at a Dunkin Donuts, another at a sandwich shop, a third at
> Burger King. And this is for a management position?
the best managers often started on the flat and moved up one rung at a
time acquiring wide and varied experience.
Janet.
jmcquown
Jun 3, 2012, 11:38:10 AM6/3/12
to
> This afternoon we stopped for lunch at a Panera Brad. They, like many
> places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
>
> It was about 1:30 on a busy Saturday in a shopping center. A bit past
> the prime noon lunch, but on a Saturday, places like that are usually
> busy anyway. I ordered for us while my wife tried to find a seat.
> Just before our food arrived she did find a table, but others were not
> so lucky.
>
> At one corner of the store, three people seemed to have set up shop.
> one utilized a table for two, the others utilized tables that could
> seat four, a total of ten seats. By the looks of things, they had
> been there for some time and planned to say a while longer. Assuming
> they did buy some food and/or beverage, that was finished.
>
> Personally, I thought it ignorant to continue to live in their private
> corner while others were not able to sit and enjoy a meal. Offering
> places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
>
> It was about 1:30 on a busy Saturday in a shopping center. A bit past
> the prime noon lunch, but on a Saturday, places like that are usually
> busy anyway. I ordered for us while my wife tried to find a seat.
> Just before our food arrived she did find a table, but others were not
> so lucky.
>
> At one corner of the store, three people seemed to have set up shop.
> one utilized a table for two, the others utilized tables that could
> seat four, a total of ten seats. By the looks of things, they had
> been there for some time and planned to say a while longer. Assuming
> they did buy some food and/or beverage, that was finished.
>
> Personally, I thought it ignorant to continue to live in their private
> corner while others were not able to sit and enjoy a meal. Offering
> Wi-Fi may attract some customers, but it is sending others away. If I
> ever go back there, it will only be during off hours when plenty of
> seats are available.
>
> ever go back there, it will only be during off hours when plenty of
> seats are available.
>
> Seems that stores should put some restrictions in place. They may
> have sole $3 in coffee to these people, but they lose that $20 lunch
> tab, maybe a couple if times during the busy hours.
>
> have sole $3 in coffee to these people, but they lose that $20 lunch
> tab, maybe a couple if times during the busy hours.
>
> People that spend hours at a computer in a coffee shop seem to be a
> strange lot anyway.
First off, I've never been to a coffee shop or any place that offers free
> strange lot anyway.
wi-fi. Then again, I don't take my laptop with me everywhere I go.
Offering free wi-fi in a small cafe/shop seems like a terrible way to
encourage new customers. As you pointed out, those people don't *leave*!
Someone else is paying for it. What did the owners expect? Quick customer
turnover for the tables when the free wi-fi geeks can sit there for hours
and not buy anything? Sheesh
At least make them buy a minimum amount of coffee (or whatever the heck else
they sell) to somewhat compensate for the free wi-fi. And to open up tables
for other customers. Make these people pay for their own internet
connection.
Jill
jmcquown
Jun 3, 2012, 11:51:57 AM6/3/12
to
"dsi1" <dsi...@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in message
news:4fcaa5d8$0$15542$882e...@usenet-news.net...
> On 6/2/2012 11:34 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> This afternoon we stopped for lunch at a Panera Brad. They, like many
>> places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
>>
>> It was about 1:30 on a busy Saturday in a shopping center. A bit past
>> the prime noon lunch, but on a Saturday, places like that are usually
>> busy anyway. I ordered for us while my wife tried to find a seat.
>> Just before our food arrived she did find a table, but others were not
>> so lucky.
>>
>> At one corner of the store, three people seemed to have set up shop.
>>
(snipped valid IMHO points)
>> This afternoon we stopped for lunch at a Panera Brad. They, like many
>> places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
>>
>> It was about 1:30 on a busy Saturday in a shopping center. A bit past
>> the prime noon lunch, but on a Saturday, places like that are usually
>> busy anyway. I ordered for us while my wife tried to find a seat.
>> Just before our food arrived she did find a table, but others were not
>> so lucky.
>>
>> At one corner of the store, three people seemed to have set up shop.
>>
>> Seems that stores should put some restrictions in place. They may
>> have sole $3 in coffee to these people, but they lose that $20 lunch
>> tab, maybe a couple if times during the busy hours.
>>
> It's a new strategy where people are encouraged to linger. I don't like to
> linger myself but I think coffee shops do more business with people
> sitting in their shops than if they're empty. They probably want to
> encourage patrons to see their location as a part of a daily routine.
>
to linger. Table turnover is the key to making money.
> Additionally, a lot of old folk will start out the day by going to a
> designated restaurant every day and lingering with friends.
considered "old folk" in your book. (Who really knows what that means?) I
don't start my day in a restaurant, slurping free coffee or tea while we
wait for the early bird special. I don't know anyone who does that.
> A strategy like this wouldn't work if there's not ample seating but having
> a bunch of unfilled seats is probably very depressing to a business guy.
for hours, wondering why there are no customers. He's probably using the
free wi-fi, too.
Jill
jinxminx2
Jun 3, 2012, 12:06:10 PM6/3/12
to
My father does exactly that! The only exception is that the coffee
isn't free where he meets his group and they're there mostly for the
conversation, not the early bird special. It's quite common among
the retired set.
Jinx
sf
Jun 3, 2012, 12:16:57 PM6/3/12
to
On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 10:16:18 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
> On my drive home from work one day, I noticed my phone picked up a
> signal. Curious, I left it to see if any more came up. There were
> at least four unsecured networks I could have hopped on. Probably
> dozens more if I drove around town.
It's not easy to secure a network, you have to know "something" first.
> On my drive home from work one day, I noticed my phone picked up a
> signal. Curious, I left it to see if any more came up. There were
> at least four unsecured networks I could have hopped on. Probably
> dozens more if I drove around town.
Fortunately, I have a nephew (by marriage) who works in IT who set
mine up the last couple of times and I noticed it wasn't a slam dunk
for him either - so I felt vindicated.
George
Jun 3, 2012, 12:32:38 PM6/3/12
to
On 6/3/2012 11:51 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>> A strategy like this wouldn't work if there's not ample seating but
>> having a bunch of unfilled seats is probably very depressing to a
>> business guy.
>
> Depressing? As if a business person is going to hang out in a coffee
> shop for hours, wondering why there are no customers. He's probably
> using the free wi-fi, too.
>
> Jill
"Road warriors" typically have a device (Smartphone, tablet with
>> A strategy like this wouldn't work if there's not ample seating but
>> having a bunch of unfilled seats is probably very depressing to a
>> business guy.
>
> Depressing? As if a business person is going to hang out in a coffee
> shop for hours, wondering why there are no customers. He's probably
> using the free wi-fi, too.
>
> Jill
embedded cellular radio, laptop with aircard etc) that would use the
cellular network for data. They do that for a number of reasons such as
open WiFi isn't secure, it certainly isn't ubiquitous so no time wasted
looking for free WiFi, you don't need to tinker to use it (if you have
cell reception it works) and typically costs $30/month for a small
number of users and less for bigger organizations.
Dave Smith
Jun 3, 2012, 12:52:06 PM6/3/12
to
On 03/06/2012 3:47 AM, dsi1 wrote:
wn to places with a lot of people in them.
>>
>> There used to be a mom and pop restaurant in a country location not too
>> far from our town. I used to stop there for coffee breaks and meals if I
>> was working in the area. The food was great and prices were low. The
>> problem for them seemed to be the bottomless cup of coffee. It was
>> popular with the local farmers. Those guys would come in after 8 am and
>> have breakfast and a half dozen cups of coffee. While they were quite
>> sociable, they usually sat one per table and carried on conversations
>> across the room. The restaurant ended up with 4 or more table taken up
>> for two hours or more by people who had eaten long ago and were mooching
>> the free coffee, so there was no room for paying customers.
>
> You have to have a different mindset than usual to want to your
> customers feel comfortable and welcome and have your establishment seen
> as a meeting place instead of focusing on how much money you can rake
> in. Personally, I'd rather run the former than the latter.
*I* have a different mindset that I would want customer turnover and
wn to places with a lot of people in them.
>>
>> There used to be a mom and pop restaurant in a country location not too
>> far from our town. I used to stop there for coffee breaks and meals if I
>> was working in the area. The food was great and prices were low. The
>> problem for them seemed to be the bottomless cup of coffee. It was
>> popular with the local farmers. Those guys would come in after 8 am and
>> have breakfast and a half dozen cups of coffee. While they were quite
>> sociable, they usually sat one per table and carried on conversations
>> across the room. The restaurant ended up with 4 or more table taken up
>> for two hours or more by people who had eaten long ago and were mooching
>> the free coffee, so there was no room for paying customers.
>
> You have to have a different mindset than usual to want to your
> customers feel comfortable and welcome and have your establishment seen
> as a meeting place instead of focusing on how much money you can rake
> in. Personally, I'd rather run the former than the latter.
more profit? Sorry, but I think you are the one who has it backwards.
Most cafes, restaurants and bars do lots of things to get customers to
come in and spend money. Some fast food places have time limits to
avoid having people sitting around taking up seating and not spending
money.
My point about Starbucks is that they have wifi and there are often
people sitting there working <?> on laptops for hours at a time. I have
seen university students in there seemingly working on assignments. Some
of them are connected to Chapters book stores and the mooches with bring
books or magazines from the store, mistaking it for a library, and sit
there and read for hours, nursing a cup of coffee. Meanwhile, people
like myself who go in for a coffee and a bit to eat have nowhere to sit,
and I usually end up going elsewhere
They don't make money off people like that, and they lose the money that
others would have been spending. They can't stay in business long that way.
Dave Smith
Jun 3, 2012, 12:58:06 PM6/3/12
to
On 03/06/2012 8:43 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2012-06-03, Ed Pawlowski<e...@snet.net> wrote:
>
>> a table for the afternoon. Today, I can sit out in the parking lot
>> and have a signal.
>
> Watch out, Ed! Ppl have been busted fer that:
>
> <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2007/05/michigan-man-arrested-for-using-cafes-free-wifi-from-his-car/>
>
> ...or...
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6v9lo3g
>
I have mixed feelings about stuff like that. I despise leeches. OTOH...
> On 2012-06-03, Ed Pawlowski<e...@snet.net> wrote:
>
>> a table for the afternoon. Today, I can sit out in the parking lot
>> and have a signal.
>
> Watch out, Ed! Ppl have been busted fer that:
>
> <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2007/05/michigan-man-arrested-for-using-cafes-free-wifi-from-his-car/>
>
> ...or...
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6v9lo3g
>
if we are being bombarded with electromagnet radiation we should be able
to tune into it.
Dave Smith
Jun 3, 2012, 1:01:23 PM6/3/12
to
On 03/06/2012 9:01 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2012-06-02, Ed Pawlowski<e...@snet.net> wrote:
>> This afternoon we stopped for lunch at a Panera Brad. They, like many
>> places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
>
> The resto makes that choice. Wifi or more customers or more
> seating. Like you said, if they don't know how to do it....
>
> Also, no one is forcing them to leaving their wifi on all the time. I
> can turn my router off with the touch of a switch.
>
Before I got my router modem a friend of my wife wanted to come over and
> On 2012-06-02, Ed Pawlowski<e...@snet.net> wrote:
>> This afternoon we stopped for lunch at a Panera Brad. They, like many
>> places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
>
> The resto makes that choice. Wifi or more customers or more
> seating. Like you said, if they don't know how to do it....
>
> Also, no one is forcing them to leaving their wifi on all the time. I
> can turn my router off with the touch of a switch.
>
access my wifi. I never bothered to tell her when my modem was upgraded
and I got wifi.
Gary
Jun 3, 2012, 1:05:33 PM6/3/12
to
jmcquown wrote:
the morning to pretty much just have coffee and hang out for awhile. Long
ago, I used to take my young daughter fishing early in the morning. Once we
finished, we always stopped at that McDonald's restaurant on the way home.
Always a gang of OLD ppl in there early just drinking coffee and hanging
out. It was a morning place for them to meet and linger.
I'm not quite old enough to want to do that yet, but once I finally retire,
I can see myself joining in the morning crowd. I've always been an early
morning person and I can see wanting to hang out with "the gang" for coffee
for awhile. :-D
Gary
PS - you're younger than me and still look hot. Don't ever worry about
becoming an OLD lady...it's better than the alternative! ;)
>
> "dsi1" wrote:
> > Additionally, a lot of old folk will start out the day by going to a
> > designated restaurant every day and lingering with friends.
> Ha! Where'd you get that idea? Television commercials? I might be
> considered "old folk" in your book. (Who really knows what that means?) I
> don't start my day in a restaurant, slurping free coffee or tea while we
> wait for the early bird special. I don't know anyone who does that.
I have a local McD here Jill where old ppl do that. They all meet early in
> "dsi1" wrote:
> > Additionally, a lot of old folk will start out the day by going to a
> > designated restaurant every day and lingering with friends.
> Ha! Where'd you get that idea? Television commercials? I might be
> considered "old folk" in your book. (Who really knows what that means?) I
> don't start my day in a restaurant, slurping free coffee or tea while we
> wait for the early bird special. I don't know anyone who does that.
the morning to pretty much just have coffee and hang out for awhile. Long
ago, I used to take my young daughter fishing early in the morning. Once we
finished, we always stopped at that McDonald's restaurant on the way home.
Always a gang of OLD ppl in there early just drinking coffee and hanging
out. It was a morning place for them to meet and linger.
I'm not quite old enough to want to do that yet, but once I finally retire,
I can see myself joining in the morning crowd. I've always been an early
morning person and I can see wanting to hang out with "the gang" for coffee
for awhile. :-D
Gary
PS - you're younger than me and still look hot. Don't ever worry about
becoming an OLD lady...it's better than the alternative! ;)
Nancy Young
Jun 3, 2012, 1:18:49 PM6/3/12
to
places, not *for* positions there. Perhaps I read wrong.
nancy
Ed Pawlowski
Jun 3, 2012, 1:24:00 PM6/3/12
to
and she is running the office. As was pointed out by another,
sometimes you don't want the rest of the staff knowing you are
interviewing.
Ed Pawlowski
Jun 3, 2012, 1:24:31 PM6/3/12
to
notbob
Jun 3, 2012, 1:31:28 PM6/3/12
to
On 2012-06-03, Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> if we are being bombarded with electromagnet radiation we should be able
> to tune into it.
I agree with you 100%, Dave. That's the way it once was. Remember
> if we are being bombarded with electromagnet radiation we should be able
> to tune into it.
radios that could record cassettes? You broadcast it, I can copy it.
Now, they sonsabitches can bust yer balls fer doing exactly that,
$250K fine and 5 yrs in prison fer ea offense.
Janet
Jun 3, 2012, 1:33:44 PM6/3/12
to
In article <zDMyr.122322$Hv5....@unlimited.newshosting.com>,
adavid...@sympatico.ca says...
to stay away at all costs.
If I go in and spot a big box of kids toys, pots of crayons on the
tables and a colour-in paper table mat.. I know to go and eat somewhere
else. Maybe one that has shelves of books and a piano :-)
Janet.
adavid...@sympatico.ca says...
>
> On 03/06/2012 3:47 AM, dsi1 wrote:
> wn to places with a lot of people in them.
> >>
> >> There used to be a mom and pop restaurant in a country location not too
> >> far from our town. I used to stop there for coffee breaks and meals if I
> >> was working in the area. The food was great and prices were low. The
> >> problem for them seemed to be the bottomless cup of coffee. It was
> >> popular with the local farmers. Those guys would come in after 8 am and
> >> have breakfast and a half dozen cups of coffee. While they were quite
> >> sociable, they usually sat one per table and carried on conversations
> >> across the room. The restaurant ended up with 4 or more table taken up
> >> for two hours or more by people who had eaten long ago and were mooching
> >> the free coffee, so there was no room for paying customers.
> >
> > You have to have a different mindset than usual to want to your
> > customers feel comfortable and welcome and have your establishment seen
> > as a meeting place instead of focusing on how much money you can rake
> > in. Personally, I'd rather run the former than the latter.
>
> *I* have a different mindset that I would want customer turnover and
> more profit? Sorry, but I think you are the one who has it backwards.
> Most cafes, restaurants and bars do lots of things to get customers to
> come in and spend money.
That's fine; some of those "attractions" are a clear signal to others
> On 03/06/2012 3:47 AM, dsi1 wrote:
> wn to places with a lot of people in them.
> >>
> >> There used to be a mom and pop restaurant in a country location not too
> >> far from our town. I used to stop there for coffee breaks and meals if I
> >> was working in the area. The food was great and prices were low. The
> >> problem for them seemed to be the bottomless cup of coffee. It was
> >> popular with the local farmers. Those guys would come in after 8 am and
> >> have breakfast and a half dozen cups of coffee. While they were quite
> >> sociable, they usually sat one per table and carried on conversations
> >> across the room. The restaurant ended up with 4 or more table taken up
> >> for two hours or more by people who had eaten long ago and were mooching
> >> the free coffee, so there was no room for paying customers.
> >
> > You have to have a different mindset than usual to want to your
> > customers feel comfortable and welcome and have your establishment seen
> > as a meeting place instead of focusing on how much money you can rake
> > in. Personally, I'd rather run the former than the latter.
>
> *I* have a different mindset that I would want customer turnover and
> more profit? Sorry, but I think you are the one who has it backwards.
> Most cafes, restaurants and bars do lots of things to get customers to
> come in and spend money.
to stay away at all costs.
If I go in and spot a big box of kids toys, pots of crayons on the
tables and a colour-in paper table mat.. I know to go and eat somewhere
else. Maybe one that has shelves of books and a piano :-)
Janet.
jmcquown
Jun 3, 2012, 1:47:27 PM6/3/12
to
"Gary" <g.ma...@att.net> wrote in message news:4FCB995D...@att.net...
> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> "dsi1" wrote:
>
>> > Additionally, a lot of old folk will start out the day by going to a
>> > designated restaurant every day and lingering with friends.
>
>> Ha! Where'd you get that idea? Television commercials? I might be
>> considered "old folk" in your book. (Who really knows what that means?)
>> I
>> don't start my day in a restaurant, slurping free coffee or tea while we
>> wait for the early bird special. I don't know anyone who does that.
>
> I have a local McD here Jill where old ppl do that.
ROFL!
>>
>> "dsi1" wrote:
>
>> > Additionally, a lot of old folk will start out the day by going to a
>> > designated restaurant every day and lingering with friends.
>
>> Ha! Where'd you get that idea? Television commercials? I might be
>> considered "old folk" in your book. (Who really knows what that means?)
>> I
>> don't start my day in a restaurant, slurping free coffee or tea while we
>> wait for the early bird special. I don't know anyone who does that.
>
> I have a local McD here Jill where old ppl do that.
>They all meet early in the morning to pretty much just have coffee and hang
>out for awhile.
(snippage)
> Always a gang of OLD ppl in there early just drinking coffee and hanging
> out. It was a morning place for them to meet and linger.
>
> I'm not quite old enough to want to do that yet, but once I finally
> retire,
> I can see myself joining in the morning crowd. I've always been an early
> morning person and I can see wanting to hang out with "the gang" for
> coffee
> for awhile. :-D
>
> Gary
>
Jill
Janet
Jun 3, 2012, 1:50:43 PM6/3/12
to
In article <ua7ns7dd005129eqf...@4ax.com>, e...@snet.net
says...
I think you misunderstood. MacDonalds is not the same rung as Michelin.
But that's no reason for a young person to sneeze at getting their first
management experience in Dunkin Donuts.
Janet
says...
But that's no reason for a young person to sneeze at getting their first
management experience in Dunkin Donuts.
Janet
Gary
Jun 3, 2012, 2:07:10 PM6/3/12
to
Dave Smith wrote:
>
> My point about Starbucks is that they have wifi and there are often
> people sitting there working <?> on laptops for hours at a time. I have
> seen university students in there seemingly working on assignments. Some
> of them are connected to Chapters book stores and the mooches with bring
> books or magazines from the store, mistaking it for a library, and sit
> there and read for hours, nursing a cup of coffee. Meanwhile, people
> like myself who go in for a coffee and a bit to eat have nowhere to sit,
> and I usually end up going elsewhere
IMO, you should go somewhere else than the overrated and the way over-priced
>
> My point about Starbucks is that they have wifi and there are often
> people sitting there working <?> on laptops for hours at a time. I have
> seen university students in there seemingly working on assignments. Some
> of them are connected to Chapters book stores and the mooches with bring
> books or magazines from the store, mistaking it for a library, and sit
> there and read for hours, nursing a cup of coffee. Meanwhile, people
> like myself who go in for a coffee and a bit to eat have nowhere to sit,
> and I usually end up going elsewhere
Starbucks for morning coffee anyway. What a joke. It's only a "cool kid"
coffee place.
I tried it once and was expecting the sky to open up and hear angels sing.
splat. It was just regular coffee and not impressive to me at all.
For way cheaper, just make your own cup at home each morning. OR...if you
insist on other ppl's coffee, 7-11, McD, and Dunkin donuts all make just as
good or better coffee for so much less money.
Gary
Don't let the "cool kid" syndrome drain your wallet. Listen to your taste
buds.
dsi1
Jun 3, 2012, 2:16:36 PM6/3/12
to
On 6/3/2012 4:04 AM, George wrote:
>
> Depends what "comfortable and welcome" is. As Ed described what is
> comfortable and welcome about walking into a restaurant, making a
> purchase and finding there is no place to sit because eight people are
> camped out there for the day to use the "free" WifI?
>
> As far as being a meeting place isn't it a standard idea for a lot of
> places to offer rooms for private dining and banquets? That way you have
> exclusive use of a space intended for the purpose and other customers
> can efficiently come and go.
What isn't standard is private dining rooms in coffee shops and
>
> Depends what "comfortable and welcome" is. As Ed described what is
> comfortable and welcome about walking into a restaurant, making a
> purchase and finding there is no place to sit because eight people are
> camped out there for the day to use the "free" WifI?
>
> As far as being a meeting place isn't it a standard idea for a lot of
> places to offer rooms for private dining and banquets? That way you have
> exclusive use of a space intended for the purpose and other customers
> can efficiently come and go.
McDonald's. Whenever I go eat breakfast somewhere, I'll always see
groups of retired people who go to restaurants every day as part of a
routine.I don't know how they can do it every day.
You might not have noticed that this occurs but I'm observant of old
folks. The young guys are a different breed so I can't comment much on
them.
George M. Middius
Jun 3, 2012, 2:21:19 PM6/3/12
to
jmcquown wrote:
> >They all meet early in the morning to pretty much just have coffee and hang
> >out for awhile.
>
> Oh boy! Can't wait to be a McD's senior citizen! :)
Are you anticipating the death of your tastebuds? McDoggie's
> >They all meet early in the morning to pretty much just have coffee and hang
> >out for awhile.
>
> Oh boy! Can't wait to be a McD's senior citizen! :)
Coffee-Flavored Dishwater™ will leave functioning tastebuds in a state
of dysfunction.
notbob
Jun 3, 2012, 2:23:37 PM6/3/12
to
Ssssshhh!....
That would kill about 50% of the junk on the mkt and completely
destroy Apple. ;)
That would kill about 50% of the junk on the mkt and completely
destroy Apple. ;)
Gary
Jun 3, 2012, 2:27:37 PM6/3/12
to
notbob wrote:
>
> On 2012-06-03, George Leppla <geo...@cruisemaster.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > They are called "ROMEOS"... Retired Old men Eating Out.
>
> Yeah. They sit in the corner, all alone, in a public place. What's
> that all about!?.
Same thing as seeing someone sitting on a park bench reading a book.
They are just hoping to meet someone without putting out the effort.
> If I'm gonna be alone ....once a treasured treat
> and now a future dream!.... I'd much rather do in in the privacy and
> comfort of my own abode.
For me, it used to be a future dream and is now reality.
And I'm loving every minute of my aloneness! ;)
> If I go to a public place, it's to
> socialize, like a local pub. Have a couple pints, ogle some babes,
> chat it up, maybe make a new friend.
I used to do that too but not anymore. Now I can't hit on any hot chicks
without being just a perv. The bars that I like, with all the cool loud
music, are out of my age range now. Most ppl there are in their 20's. I
would be a grampa there now so I no longer go. At least I know when to
quit. heheh
> Wifi is a whole 'nuther thing. With the US's insanely expensive
> broadband rates, I can see going to an eating establishment fer
> internet access. Young folks and geezers on fixed incomes can't
> afford the luxury of paying upwards of $50-100 per mo fer high speed
> internet. Sometimes free wifi is the only alternative.
I'm one of the last holdouts still using dial-up internet. It works for me
though and is cheap. I'm missing out on a lot of newer features but I
really don't need all the extra crap. My dialup does what I need. "If it
ain't broke, don't fix it."
Gary
>
> On 2012-06-03, George Leppla <geo...@cruisemaster.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > They are called "ROMEOS"... Retired Old men Eating Out.
>
> Yeah. They sit in the corner, all alone, in a public place. What's
> that all about!?.
Same thing as seeing someone sitting on a park bench reading a book.
They are just hoping to meet someone without putting out the effort.
> If I'm gonna be alone ....once a treasured treat
> and now a future dream!.... I'd much rather do in in the privacy and
> comfort of my own abode.
For me, it used to be a future dream and is now reality.
And I'm loving every minute of my aloneness! ;)
> If I go to a public place, it's to
> socialize, like a local pub. Have a couple pints, ogle some babes,
> chat it up, maybe make a new friend.
I used to do that too but not anymore. Now I can't hit on any hot chicks
without being just a perv. The bars that I like, with all the cool loud
music, are out of my age range now. Most ppl there are in their 20's. I
would be a grampa there now so I no longer go. At least I know when to
quit. heheh
> Wifi is a whole 'nuther thing. With the US's insanely expensive
> broadband rates, I can see going to an eating establishment fer
> internet access. Young folks and geezers on fixed incomes can't
> afford the luxury of paying upwards of $50-100 per mo fer high speed
> internet. Sometimes free wifi is the only alternative.
I'm one of the last holdouts still using dial-up internet. It works for me
though and is cheap. I'm missing out on a lot of newer features but I
really don't need all the extra crap. My dialup does what I need. "If it
ain't broke, don't fix it."
Gary
notbob
Jun 3, 2012, 2:31:45 PM6/3/12
to
On 2012-06-03, dsi1 <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
> groups of retired people who go to restaurants every day as part of a
> routine.I don't know how they can do it every day.
A few yrs ago, my mid-80s father and wife used to go to one of the
> groups of retired people who go to restaurants every day as part of a
> routine.I don't know how they can do it every day.
better Denny's --yeah, they're not all crap-- fer breakfast. Not
exactly break-the-bank prices and a nice daily outing and get-together
for the old folks. ;)
Gary
Jun 3, 2012, 2:36:44 PM6/3/12
to
dsi1 wrote:
>
> Whenever I go eat breakfast somewhere, I'll always see
> groups of retired people who go to restaurants every day as part of a
> routine.I don't know how they can do it every day.
They do this every day because they are retired and can do whatever they
>
> Whenever I go eat breakfast somewhere, I'll always see
> groups of retired people who go to restaurants every day as part of a
> routine.I don't know how they can do it every day.
want to with their days. They get out early, don't have to go to work later,
so they go somewhere for breakfast. Once they discover that this is regular
thing, they join in each day. It becomes a new morning routine and getting
together with people your own age with similar lifestyles (retired).
This is a gang mentality, only with friendly old ppl rather than mean young
punks.
I can see myself joining in once I retire. Making new friends and seeing
them for a short while each morning before we all go our separate ways for
the day.
Not much different than all of us here each day talking on RFC.
Gary
Ophelia
Jun 3, 2012, 2:42:39 PM6/3/12
to
"Gary" <g.ma...@att.net> wrote in message news:4FCBAEBC...@att.net...
--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/
Gary
Jun 3, 2012, 2:47:31 PM6/3/12
to
is....they sell the hell out of their "crappy" food and have been raking in
mega-profits ever since the early 60's or so. They don't give a crap about
your minority opinion...they are obviously doing something right.
And as I've said, I grew up with McDonalds since a little boy...when
hamburgers cost 15 cents and small fries were 12 cents. I loved their food
then and I still love it. That said, I only go there maybe once every 6
months. With my attitude, you would think I'd eat there every single day.
;-D
Gary
notbob
Jun 3, 2012, 2:47:48 PM6/3/12
to
> They do this every day because they are retired and can do whatever they
> want to with their days. They get out early, don't have to go to work later,
> so they go somewhere for breakfast. Once they discover that this is regular
> thing, they join in each day. It becomes a new morning routine and getting
> together with people your own age with similar lifestyles (retired).
>
> This is a gang mentality, only with friendly old ppl rather than mean young
> punks.
>
> I can see myself joining in once I retire. Making new friends and seeing
> them for a short while each morning before we all go our separate ways for
> the day.
>
> Not much different than all of us here each day talking on RFC.
Well said, Gary.
> want to with their days. They get out early, don't have to go to work later,
> so they go somewhere for breakfast. Once they discover that this is regular
> thing, they join in each day. It becomes a new morning routine and getting
> together with people your own age with similar lifestyles (retired).
>
> This is a gang mentality, only with friendly old ppl rather than mean young
> punks.
>
> I can see myself joining in once I retire. Making new friends and seeing
> them for a short while each morning before we all go our separate ways for
> the day.
>
> Not much different than all of us here each day talking on RFC.
No different than the after work gathering around the tailgate or at
the local pub by construction workers or the weekly game of softball
or poker by buddies or gin game or quilting bee by the ladies. They
have earned the dime and now have the time. Who would be so selfish
as to begrudge them this small social pleasure.
Nunya Bidnits
Jun 3, 2012, 2:51:23 PM6/3/12
to
Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
> This afternoon we stopped for lunch at a Panera Brad. They, like many
> places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
>
> This afternoon we stopped for lunch at a Panera Brad. They, like many
> places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
>
> It was about 1:30 on a busy Saturday in a shopping center. A bit past
> the prime noon lunch, but on a Saturday, places like that are usually
> busy anyway. I ordered for us while my wife tried to find a seat.
> Just before our food arrived she did find a table, but others were not
> so lucky.
>
> At one corner of the store, three people seemed to have set up shop.
> one utilized a table for two, the others utilized tables that could
> the prime noon lunch, but on a Saturday, places like that are usually
> busy anyway. I ordered for us while my wife tried to find a seat.
> Just before our food arrived she did find a table, but others were not
> so lucky.
>
> At one corner of the store, three people seemed to have set up shop.
> seat four, a total of ten seats. By the looks of things, they had
> been there for some time and planned to say a while longer. Assuming
> they did buy some food and/or beverage, that was finished.
>
> Personally, I thought it ignorant to continue to live in their private
> corner while others were not able to sit and enjoy a meal. Offering
> Wi-Fi may attract some customers, but it is sending others away. If I
> ever go back there, it will only be during off hours when plenty of
> seats are available.
>
> Seems that stores should put some restrictions in place. They may
> have sole $3 in coffee to these people, but they lose that $20 lunch
> tab, maybe a couple if times during the busy hours.
>
> People that spend hours at a computer in a coffee shop seem to be a
> Seems that stores should put some restrictions in place. They may
> have sole $3 in coffee to these people, but they lose that $20 lunch
> tab, maybe a couple if times during the busy hours.
>
> strange lot anyway.
The people who can't find seats should eat together standing up, while
surrounding the offenders as closely as possible and talking across their
table.
Or they could simply ask if they can share the table, especially the four
tops with one non-eating person there.
Dave Smith
Jun 3, 2012, 2:58:04 PM6/3/12
to
On 03/06/2012 1:05 PM, Gary wrote:
> I have a local McD here Jill where old ppl do that. They all meet early in
> the morning to pretty much just have coffee and hang out for awhile. Long
> ago, I used to take my young daughter fishing early in the morning. Once we
> finished, we always stopped at that McDonald's restaurant on the way home.
> Always a gang of OLD ppl in there early just drinking coffee and hanging
> out. It was a morning place for them to meet and linger.
When I was working I was on the road most of the time, so I frequented a
> I have a local McD here Jill where old ppl do that. They all meet early in
> the morning to pretty much just have coffee and hang out for awhile. Long
> ago, I used to take my young daughter fishing early in the morning. Once we
> finished, we always stopped at that McDonald's restaurant on the way home.
> Always a gang of OLD ppl in there early just drinking coffee and hanging
> out. It was a morning place for them to meet and linger.
lot of coffee shops all over the Niagara Peninsula, mostly Tim Hortons,
since they are everywhere, and a few others. Just about everyone of
them had groups of regulars that you could could no being there at
different times of the day. There were two that were close to our yard.
One of them had one group of regulars and another had another group. In
the afternoon there would be different groups.
Coffee shops sure don't mind have a circle of friends come in, and
sometimes it is a somewhat circular meeting with a couple guys getting
there first, some more arriving, the first guys leave and couple more
take their place. There is a hefty markup on coffee. The problem with
places like Starbucks and their ilk with wifi is that you get one person
sitting at a table for two or for, and staying there for hours.
> I'm not quite old enough to want to do that yet, but once I finally retire,
> I can see myself joining in the morning crowd. I've always been an early
> morning person and I can see wanting to hang out with "the gang" for coffee
> for awhile. :-D
there on the way back from errands or bicycle rides, or I walk the two
miles to it. It is just a small place, only four tables and a small
counter. There are about a dozen people who I recognize as regulars.
graham
Jun 3, 2012, 2:59:19 PM6/3/12
to
"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:7h0ls75s8eel522n7...@4ax.com...
> This afternoon we stopped for lunch at a Panera Brad. They, like many
> places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
>
> It was about 1:30 on a busy Saturday in a shopping center. A bit past
> the prime noon lunch, but on a Saturday, places like that are usually
> busy anyway. I ordered for us while my wife tried to find a seat.
> Just before our food arrived she did find a table, but others were not
> so lucky.
>
> At one corner of the store, three people seemed to have set up shop.
> one utilized a table for two, the others utilized tables that could
> seat four, a total of ten seats. By the looks of things, they had
> been there for some time and planned to say a while longer. Assuming
> they did buy some food and/or beverage, that was finished.
>
> Personally, I thought it ignorant to continue to live in their private
> corner while others were not able to sit and enjoy a meal. Offering
> Wi-Fi may attract some customers, but it is sending others away. If I
> ever go back there, it will only be during off hours when plenty of
> seats are available.
>
> Seems that stores should put some restrictions in place. They may
> have sole $3 in coffee to these people, but they lose that $20 lunch
> tab, maybe a couple if times during the busy hours.
>
> People that spend hours at a computer in a coffee shop seem to be a
> strange lot anyway.
>
There's a coffee shop in Calgary where the owner has set up a counter with
> places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
>
> It was about 1:30 on a busy Saturday in a shopping center. A bit past
> the prime noon lunch, but on a Saturday, places like that are usually
> busy anyway. I ordered for us while my wife tried to find a seat.
> Just before our food arrived she did find a table, but others were not
> so lucky.
>
> At one corner of the store, three people seemed to have set up shop.
> one utilized a table for two, the others utilized tables that could
> seat four, a total of ten seats. By the looks of things, they had
> been there for some time and planned to say a while longer. Assuming
> they did buy some food and/or beverage, that was finished.
>
> Personally, I thought it ignorant to continue to live in their private
> corner while others were not able to sit and enjoy a meal. Offering
> Wi-Fi may attract some customers, but it is sending others away. If I
> ever go back there, it will only be during off hours when plenty of
> seats are available.
>
> Seems that stores should put some restrictions in place. They may
> have sole $3 in coffee to these people, but they lose that $20 lunch
> tab, maybe a couple if times during the busy hours.
>
> People that spend hours at a computer in a coffee shop seem to be a
> strange lot anyway.
>
free internet plug-ins rather than wi-fi. You have to buy something every
hour to use the service.
Dave Smith
Jun 3, 2012, 3:06:18 PM6/3/12
to
On 03/06/2012 1:33 PM, Janet wrote:
n. Personally, I'd rather run the former than the latter.
>>
>> *I* have a different mindset that I would want customer turnover and
>> more profit? Sorry, but I think you are the one who has it backwards.
>> Most cafes, restaurants and bars do lots of things to get customers to
>> come in and spend money.
>
> That's fine; some of those "attractions" are a clear signal to others
> to stay away at all costs.
>
> If I go in and spot a big box of kids toys, pots of crayons on the
> tables and a colour-in paper table mat.. I know to go and eat somewhere
> else. Maybe one that has shelves of books and a piano :-)
>
I can think of two places in our town that used to cater to women with
n. Personally, I'd rather run the former than the latter.
>>
>> *I* have a different mindset that I would want customer turnover and
>> more profit? Sorry, but I think you are the one who has it backwards.
>> Most cafes, restaurants and bars do lots of things to get customers to
>> come in and spend money.
>
> That's fine; some of those "attractions" are a clear signal to others
> to stay away at all costs.
>
> If I go in and spot a big box of kids toys, pots of crayons on the
> tables and a colour-in paper table mat.. I know to go and eat somewhere
> else. Maybe one that has shelves of books and a piano :-)
>
children, and both went under shortly after the women started coming in
for coffee klatches with their kids. One was a cafe bakery that I
mentioned previously. I had suggested that they get rid of the
colouring board easel and box of toys and put in a couple tables in
their place. The other was a small restaurant that specialized in the
breakfast, lunch and coffee business. When I was working we used to
stop in there for breakfast and lunch once in a while, and it was always
busy. There were some guys who used to go there for breakfast every
day. I also used to stop there for coffee once in a while. The last
couple times I went for coffee there were about a half dozen women
sitting at a table, each nursing a cup of coffee. The kids were running
around and screaming. None of the regular guys were there. After the
second time I never bothered going back. I go to have a coffee and a
snack, read the newspaper and do the crossword. I wanted peace and
quiet, not screaming kids.
Pete C.
Jun 3, 2012, 3:51:30 PM6/3/12
to
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> This afternoon we stopped for lunch at a Panera Brad. They, like many
> places offer free Wi-Fi to customers.
>
> It was about 1:30 on a busy Saturday in a shopping center. A bit past
> the prime noon lunch, but on a Saturday, places like that are usually
> busy anyway. I ordered for us while my wife tried to find a seat.
> Just before our food arrived she did find a table, but others were not
> so lucky.
>
> At one corner of the store, three people seemed to have set up shop.
> one utilized a table for two, the others utilized tables that could
> seat four, a total of ten seats. By the looks of things, they had
> been there for some time and planned to say a while longer. Assuming
> they did buy some food and/or beverage, that was finished.
>
> Personally, I thought it ignorant to continue to live in their private
> corner while others were not able to sit and enjoy a meal. Offering
> Wi-Fi may attract some customers, but it is sending others away. If I
> ever go back there, it will only be during off hours when plenty of
> seats are available.
>
> Seems that stores should put some restrictions in place. They may
> have sole $3 in coffee to these people, but they lose that $20 lunch
> tab, maybe a couple if times during the busy hours.
>
> People that spend hours at a computer in a coffee shop seem to be a
> strange lot anyway.
anyway, most of the people setting up shop will simply whip out their 3G
or 4G air card or use their smart phone to connect if WiFi isn't
available. These days I travel with a 3G MiFi puck so I don't
particularly care if the place I'm at has WiFi, but if it's available
I'll try it since it might be faster though the 3G is quite good.
You generally won't find me on the laptop in the coffee shop or
restaurant though unless I just got paged by work, checking my personal
stuff can wait until I get back to the hotel. Occasionally I may be
remotely keeping an eye on something while having lunch.
As for those people, they fall into three main categories:
1. People doing real work - These folks tend to just work through their
breakfast/lunch/snack and leave and don't present a space issue.
2. Freelance types who don't have an office to go to and use the coffee
shop as a substitute home office to get away from home. These are the
space hogs since they tend to stay a long time and spend not very much.
3. Dweebs trying to look important. These are the same folks with the
phony cell phone conversations. WiFi or not, these folks will tend to
loiter in search of attention.
Dave Smith
Jun 3, 2012, 4:55:51 PM6/3/12
to
On 03/06/2012 2:51 PM, Nunya Bidnits wrote:
> The people who can't find seats should eat together standing up, while
> surrounding the offenders as closely as possible and talking across their
> table.
>
> Or they could simply ask if they can share the table, especially the four
> tops with one non-eating person there.
Paying customers should not be put in the position of having to beg the
> The people who can't find seats should eat together standing up, while
> surrounding the offenders as closely as possible and talking across their
> table.
>
> Or they could simply ask if they can share the table, especially the four
> tops with one non-eating person there.
leeches and hangers for a place to sit. It should be up to the operators
of the establishment to get rid of the people who are abusing the
facilities. Give them a reasonable time to consume their food and drinks
and then move them on. Look at the seating in fast food restaurants.
The furniture and surroundings are not designed and built that way just
to make then easier to clean. They are purposely made not to be so
comfortable that people will stay there for extended periods. They want
to sell food, and if they have to provide seating, they want the people
to buy food, eat it and move on some someone else can sit there.
dsi1
Jun 3, 2012, 5:19:17 PM6/3/12
to
On 6/3/2012 6:52 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> *I* have a different mindset that I would want customer turnover and
> more profit? Sorry, but I think you are the one who has it backwards.
> Most cafes, restaurants and bars do lots of things to get customers to
> come in and spend money. Some fast food places have time limits to avoid
>
> *I* have a different mindset that I would want customer turnover and
> more profit? Sorry, but I think you are the one who has it backwards.
> Most cafes, restaurants and bars do lots of things to get customers to
> having people sitting around taking up seating and not spending money.
>
> My point about Starbucks is that they have wifi and there are often
> people sitting there working <?> on laptops for hours at a time. I have
> seen university students in there seemingly working on assignments. Some
> of them are connected to Chapters book stores and the mooches with bring
> books or magazines from the store, mistaking it for a library, and sit
> there and read for hours, nursing a cup of coffee. Meanwhile, people
> like myself who go in for a coffee and a bit to eat have nowhere to sit,
> and I usually end up going elsewhere
We show our preference to a business by spending our money or taking a
> My point about Starbucks is that they have wifi and there are often
> people sitting there working <?> on laptops for hours at a time. I have
> seen university students in there seemingly working on assignments. Some
> of them are connected to Chapters book stores and the mooches with bring
> books or magazines from the store, mistaking it for a library, and sit
> there and read for hours, nursing a cup of coffee. Meanwhile, people
> like myself who go in for a coffee and a bit to eat have nowhere to sit,
> and I usually end up going elsewhere
walk. I hearty endorse this practice. What I don't do is see a crowded
business as being mismanaged or as a personal insult.
>
> They don't make money off people like that, and they lose the money that
> others would have been spending. They can't stay in business long that way.
>
I did say it was a different mindset. You might not understand it but
the reality is that a lot of places are using free WiFi to attract
people to their establishment. My guess is that they see people using
the WiFi service and lingering as a part of doing business.
dsi1
Jun 3, 2012, 5:53:15 PM6/3/12
to
On 6/3/2012 8:31 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2012-06-03, dsi1<ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>
>> groups of retired people who go to restaurants every day as part of a
>> routine.I don't know how they can do it every day.
>
> A few yrs ago, my mid-80s father and wife used to go to one of the
> better Denny's --yeah, they're not all crap-- fer breakfast. Not
> exactly break-the-bank prices and a nice daily outing and get-together
> for the old folks. ;)
>
> nb
>
It's uncanny. I see these groups everywhere in the morning. My dad goes
> On 2012-06-03, dsi1<ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>
>> groups of retired people who go to restaurants every day as part of a
>> routine.I don't know how they can do it every day.
>
> A few yrs ago, my mid-80s father and wife used to go to one of the
> better Denny's --yeah, they're not all crap-- fer breakfast. Not
> exactly break-the-bank prices and a nice daily outing and get-together
> for the old folks. ;)
>
> nb
>
to a Chinese restaurant with his golf pals on Fridays. The restaurant
will be closed but they knock on the door and the get seated and served
Chinese food for breakfast. He he.
dsi1
Jun 3, 2012, 5:56:24 PM6/3/12
to
myself doing it because I'm not a social kind of guy. :-)
George M. Middius
Jun 3, 2012, 5:56:42 PM6/3/12
to
Dave Smith wrote:
> Paying customers should not be put in the position of having to beg the
> leeches and hangers for a place to sit. It should be up to the operators
> of the establishment to get rid of the people who are abusing the
> facilities.
When is your "How to Run a Restaurant" handbook coming to bookstores?
> Paying customers should not be put in the position of having to beg the
> leeches and hangers for a place to sit. It should be up to the operators
> of the establishment to get rid of the people who are abusing the
> facilities.
Dave Smith
Jun 3, 2012, 6:46:07 PM6/3/12
to
On 03/06/2012 5:19 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> My point about Starbucks is that they have wifi and there are often
>> people sitting there working <?> on laptops for hours at a time. I have
>> seen university students in there seemingly working on assignments. Some
>> of them are connected to Chapters book stores and the mooches with bring
>> books or magazines from the store, mistaking it for a library, and sit
>> there and read for hours, nursing a cup of coffee. Meanwhile, people
>> like myself who go in for a coffee and a bit to eat have nowhere to sit,
>> and I usually end up going elsewhere
>
> We show our preference to a business by spending our money or taking a
> walk. I hearty endorse this practice. What I don't do is see a crowded
> business as being mismanaged or as a personal insult.
I do spend my money or walk. I like to sit down to drink my coffee and
>> My point about Starbucks is that they have wifi and there are often
>> people sitting there working <?> on laptops for hours at a time. I have
>> seen university students in there seemingly working on assignments. Some
>> of them are connected to Chapters book stores and the mooches with bring
>> books or magazines from the store, mistaking it for a library, and sit
>> there and read for hours, nursing a cup of coffee. Meanwhile, people
>> like myself who go in for a coffee and a bit to eat have nowhere to sit,
>> and I usually end up going elsewhere
>
> We show our preference to a business by spending our money or taking a
> walk. I hearty endorse this practice. What I don't do is see a crowded
> business as being mismanaged or as a personal insult.
eat my snack. I can tell you that I have walked in and out of Starbucks
many times. And those restaurants that had rug rats running around... I
walked.
If I were running a coffee shop or restaurant, I would rather see the
wifi leeches leave than to have them sitting there hogging a table for
an hour or two after buying a single coffee. I would rather have one
two or three people people at a time and staying for 15-20 minutes then
moving one, allowing the potential for more than a dozen people using
the same table over the same period if time.
>
>>
>> They don't make money off people like that, and they lose the money that
>> others would have been spending. They can't stay in business long that
>> way.
>>
>
> I did say it was a different mindset. You might not understand it but
> the reality is that a lot of places are using free WiFi to attract
> people to their establishment. My guess is that they see people using
> the WiFi service and lingering as a part of doing business.
appreciate that it is IMO ill advised to attract customers who are going
to take up a lot of space for extended periods without making any money
off them. There is big markup on coffee but it the profit comes from
volume.
Dave Smith
Jun 3, 2012, 6:49:02 PM6/3/12
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On 03/06/2012 5:53 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
> It's uncanny. I see these groups everywhere in the morning. My dad goes
> to a Chinese restaurant with his golf pals on Fridays. The restaurant
> will be closed but they knock on the door and the get seated and served
> Chinese food for breakfast. He he.
Chinese restaurants can be very accommodating to r3egular customers.
>
> It's uncanny. I see these groups everywhere in the morning. My dad goes
> to a Chinese restaurant with his golf pals on Fridays. The restaurant
> will be closed but they knock on the door and the get seated and served
> Chinese food for breakfast. He he.
There was one where my co-workers and I used to eat a couple times per
week. They knew we were pressed for time. The waiter would be right
there to take our orders and I am sure we were prioritized in the
kitchen because we usually got our food before other people who had
already ordered.
Dave Smith
Jun 3, 2012, 6:50:17 PM6/3/12
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Dummies Guide To Losing a Restaurant By Attracting WIFI Leeches.
Michel Boucher
Jun 3, 2012, 7:08:25 PM6/3/12
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Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote in
news:7h0ls75s8eel522n7...@4ax.com:
> People that spend hours at a computer in a coffee shop seem to
> be a strange lot anyway.
to being housebound by people with strong but ill-informed
opinions. Coffee shops with wifi here limit your access time to 1
hour per purchase. I get an Americano, sit down, and for 59
minutes or so, I can work on my article provided there are not two
people chattering away right next to me.
Yes, I could work at home, but once in a while you need to get out.
I certainly don't do this every day.
--
Traditions are group efforts to keep the unexpected
from happening.
-- Barbara Tober
George M. Middius
Jun 3, 2012, 7:32:28 PM6/3/12
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Ed Pawlowski
Jun 3, 2012, 10:45:57 PM6/3/12
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On Sun, 3 Jun 2012 18:50:43 +0100, Janet <H...@invalid.net> wrote:
>> This is for the top rung of the ladder position. She did take on job
>> and she is running the office. As was pointed out by another,
>> sometimes you don't want the rest of the staff knowing you are
>> interviewing.
>
> I think you misunderstood. MacDonalds is not the same rung as Michelin.
>But that's no reason for a young person to sneeze at getting their first
>management experience in Dunkin Donuts.
>
> Janet
>
>
True, but she was interviewing for a job elsewhere. It was just a
meeting place. A cheap one.
>> This is for the top rung of the ladder position. She did take on job
>> and she is running the office. As was pointed out by another,
>> sometimes you don't want the rest of the staff knowing you are
>> interviewing.
>
> I think you misunderstood. MacDonalds is not the same rung as Michelin.
>But that's no reason for a young person to sneeze at getting their first
>management experience in Dunkin Donuts.
>
> Janet
>
>
True, but she was interviewing for a job elsewhere. It was just a
meeting place. A cheap one.
Jean B.
Jun 3, 2012, 10:55:12 PM6/3/12
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dsi1 wrote:
> On 6/2/2012 2:01 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>
>> Lingering customers can be a curse. Personally, I prefer quiet places.
>> The fewer people the better. I can read my newspaper and do my crossword
>> in peace. A lot of people seem to have more of a herd mentality and are
>> drawn to places with a lot of people in them.
>>
>> There used to be a mom and pop restaurant in a country location not too
>> far from our town. I used to stop there for coffee breaks and meals if I
>> was working in the area. The food was great and prices were low. The
>> problem for them seemed to be the bottomless cup of coffee. It was
>> popular with the local farmers. Those guys would come in after 8 am and
>> have breakfast and a half dozen cups of coffee. While they were quite
>> sociable, they usually sat one per table and carried on conversations
>> across the room. The restaurant ended up with 4 or more table taken up
>> for two hours or more by people who had eaten long ago and were mooching
>> the free coffee, so there was no room for paying customers.
>
> You have to have a different mindset than usual to want to your
> customers feel comfortable and welcome and have your establishment seen
> as a meeting place instead of focusing on how much money you can rake
> in. Personally, I'd rather run the former than the latter.
Yabbut, you have to make a certain amount of money to stay in
business.
--
Jean B.
> On 6/2/2012 2:01 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>
>> Lingering customers can be a curse. Personally, I prefer quiet places.
>> The fewer people the better. I can read my newspaper and do my crossword
>> in peace. A lot of people seem to have more of a herd mentality and are
>> drawn to places with a lot of people in them.
>>
>> There used to be a mom and pop restaurant in a country location not too
>> far from our town. I used to stop there for coffee breaks and meals if I
>> was working in the area. The food was great and prices were low. The
>> problem for them seemed to be the bottomless cup of coffee. It was
>> popular with the local farmers. Those guys would come in after 8 am and
>> have breakfast and a half dozen cups of coffee. While they were quite
>> sociable, they usually sat one per table and carried on conversations
>> across the room. The restaurant ended up with 4 or more table taken up
>> for two hours or more by people who had eaten long ago and were mooching
>> the free coffee, so there was no room for paying customers.
>
> You have to have a different mindset than usual to want to your
> customers feel comfortable and welcome and have your establishment seen
> as a meeting place instead of focusing on how much money you can rake
> in. Personally, I'd rather run the former than the latter.
Yabbut, you have to make a certain amount of money to stay in
business.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
Jun 3, 2012, 10:57:06 PM6/3/12
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sf wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jun 2012 21:31:51 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
>
>> When I was looking online for restaurants around here that we hadn't been to
>> before I came across one where moms could go and let kids play. They didn't
>> seem to have much of a menu. It was mostly kid food.
>
> Sounds like Chuck E Cheese.
>
That came to MY mind too.
--
Jean B.
> On Sat, 2 Jun 2012 21:31:51 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
>
>> When I was looking online for restaurants around here that we hadn't been to
>> before I came across one where moms could go and let kids play. They didn't
>> seem to have much of a menu. It was mostly kid food.
>
> Sounds like Chuck E Cheese.
>
That came to MY mind too.
--
Jean B.
Ed Pawlowski
Jun 3, 2012, 10:57:25 PM6/3/12
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On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 14:21:19 -0400, George M. Middius
<glan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>jmcquown wrote:
>
>> >They all meet early in the morning to pretty much just have coffee and hang
>> >out for awhile.
>>
coffee, any size for a dollar. Small you can get as a senior coffee
for 79¢. Burger King has Seattle's Best burnt coffee. I won't go
there for breakfast.
<glan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>jmcquown wrote:
>
>> >They all meet early in the morning to pretty much just have coffee and hang
>> >out for awhile.
>>
>> Oh boy! Can't wait to be a McD's senior citizen! :)
>
>Are you anticipating the death of your tastebuds? McDoggie's
>Coffee-Flavored Dishwater™ will leave functioning tastebuds in a state
>of dysfunction.
Not here, it is very good coffee. The McDs serves Newman's Own
>
>Are you anticipating the death of your tastebuds? McDoggie's
>Coffee-Flavored Dishwater™ will leave functioning tastebuds in a state
>of dysfunction.
coffee, any size for a dollar. Small you can get as a senior coffee
for 79¢. Burger King has Seattle's Best burnt coffee. I won't go
there for breakfast.
Ed Pawlowski
Jun 3, 2012, 11:01:45 PM6/3/12
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On Sun, 3 Jun 2012 16:09:29 +0100, Janet <H...@invalid.net> wrote:
>>
>> Personally, I thought it ignorant to continue to live in their private
>> corner while others were not able to sit and enjoy a meal. Offering
>> Wi-Fi may attract some customers, but it is sending others away.
>
> I hope you made that point to the manager.
>>
>> Personally, I thought it ignorant to continue to live in their private
>> corner while others were not able to sit and enjoy a meal. Offering
>> Wi-Fi may attract some customers, but it is sending others away.
>
>
>
> Janet
Of course. I'm not shy about making my feelings known.
Ed Pawlowski
Jun 3, 2012, 11:08:04 PM6/3/12
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On Sun, 3 Jun 2012 11:38:10 -0400, "jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
>First off, I've never been to a coffee shop or any place that offers free
>wi-fi. Then again, I don't take my laptop with me everywhere I go.
>Offering free wi-fi in a small cafe/shop seems like a terrible way to
>encourage new customers. As you pointed out, those people don't *leave*!
>Someone else is paying for it. What did the owners expect? Quick customer
>turnover for the tables when the free wi-fi geeks can sit there for hours
>and not buy anything? Sheesh
Exactly. Not a big deal during the off hours, but when a line forms,
it is time to empty the tables.
wrote:
>
>First off, I've never been to a coffee shop or any place that offers free
>wi-fi. Then again, I don't take my laptop with me everywhere I go.
>Offering free wi-fi in a small cafe/shop seems like a terrible way to
>encourage new customers. As you pointed out, those people don't *leave*!
>Someone else is paying for it. What did the owners expect? Quick customer
>turnover for the tables when the free wi-fi geeks can sit there for hours
>and not buy anything? Sheesh
Exactly. Not a big deal during the off hours, but when a line forms,
it is time to empty the tables.
Dave Smith
Jun 3, 2012, 11:15:59 PM6/3/12
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On 03/06/2012 10:57 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Not here, it is very good coffee. The McDs serves Newman's Own
> coffee, any size for a dollar. Small you can get as a senior coffee
> for 79ข. Burger King has Seattle's Best burnt coffee. I won't go
>
> Not here, it is very good coffee. The McDs serves Newman's Own
> coffee, any size for a dollar. Small you can get as a senior coffee
> there for breakfast.
I am almost tempted to go to McDonalds to try their coffee. I know that
they made an effort to improve it and I know several people who get it
regularly and say that it is pretty good.
Dave Smith
Jun 3, 2012, 11:18:45 PM6/3/12
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area taking up space. I suggested that he get rid of that and put in a
couple extra tables for paying customers. He said he couldn't do that
because the woman who come in would be upset. My feeling was that they
don't make any money off them and that they take up room for people who
would be spending more.... and men don't go to places where kids are
running free. The place went out of business a few months later.
J. Clarke
Jun 3, 2012, 11:52:13 PM6/3/12
to
In article <MPG.2a35b4387...@news.eternal-september.org>,
H...@invalid.net says...
>
> In article <ua7ns7dd005129eqf...@4ax.com>, e...@snet.net
> says...
> >
> > On Sun, 3 Jun 2012 16:09:30 +0100, Janet <H...@invalid.net> wrote:
> >
> > >In article <ioils7lcoap0d98t3...@4ax.com>, e...@snet.net
> > >says...
> > >
> > >> Times have changed. My daughter is on a job hunt. She had one
> > >> interview at a Dunkin Donuts, another at a sandwich shop, a third at
> > >> Burger King. And this is for a management position?
> > >
> > > Why not? Nobody got their first management job at the top of the ladder;
> > >the best managers often started on the flat and moved up one rung at a
> > >time acquiring wide and varied experience.
> > >
> > >
> > > Janet.
Ferrari or Boeing or somewhere and the interview was conducted in a
McDonalds.
H...@invalid.net says...
>
> In article <ua7ns7dd005129eqf...@4ax.com>, e...@snet.net
> says...
> >
> > On Sun, 3 Jun 2012 16:09:30 +0100, Janet <H...@invalid.net> wrote:
> >
> > >In article <ioils7lcoap0d98t3...@4ax.com>, e...@snet.net
> > >says...
> > >
> > >> Times have changed. My daughter is on a job hunt. She had one
> > >> interview at a Dunkin Donuts, another at a sandwich shop, a third at
> > >> Burger King. And this is for a management position?
> > >
> > > Why not? Nobody got their first management job at the top of the ladder;
> > >the best managers often started on the flat and moved up one rung at a
> > >time acquiring wide and varied experience.
> > >
> > >
> > > Janet.
> > >
> > This is for the top rung of the ladder position. She did take on job
> > and she is running the office. As was pointed out by another,
> > sometimes you don't want the rest of the staff knowing you are
> > interviewing.
>
> I think you misunderstood. MacDonalds is not the same rung as Michelin.
> But that's no reason for a young person to sneeze at getting their first
> management experience in Dunkin Donuts.
The point is that this person was interviewing for a job at Sears or
> > This is for the top rung of the ladder position. She did take on job
> > and she is running the office. As was pointed out by another,
> > sometimes you don't want the rest of the staff knowing you are
> > interviewing.
>
> I think you misunderstood. MacDonalds is not the same rung as Michelin.
> But that's no reason for a young person to sneeze at getting their first
> management experience in Dunkin Donuts.
Ferrari or Boeing or somewhere and the interview was conducted in a
McDonalds.
Jean B.
Jun 4, 2012, 12:07:24 AM6/4/12
to
states. I mainly used to get that on the way to and from the
medieval fair[e]. Now I get it when I have to shoot out the door
really early. I am very pleased with myself for not getting it
(or anything else) there more, because there is a McD's quite near
this abode. I think the last time I was in it was when a worker
asked me to get him an iced beverage--and that was probably two
years ago.
--
Jean B.
dsi1
Jun 4, 2012, 1:16:49 AM6/4/12
to
full of people doing various activities, including drinking and eating,
you shouldn't be thinking that the business is a failure.
You might, however, want to decide if you want to fight the crowd for
your coffee or go elsewhere. Trying to second guess the owner's business
strategy seems to be a waste of time.
dsi1
Jun 4, 2012, 1:22:38 AM6/4/12
to
really harsh. Taking a swig of that stuff made me cringe. I don't know
what's up with that. The Zippy's next door was pretty good coffee. I
actually am starting to crave that tasty stuff. How unexpected!
Ed Pawlowski
Jun 4, 2012, 6:01:02 AM6/4/12
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On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 23:18:45 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
>I made my feelings known to the owner of the cafe bakery that has a play
>area taking up space. I suggested that he get rid of that and put in a
>couple extra tables for paying customers. He said he couldn't do that
>because the woman who come in would be upset. My feeling was that they
>don't make any money off them and that they take up room for people who
>would be spending more.... and men don't go to places where kids are
>running free. The place went out of business a few months later.
You may get me there once, but I doubt I'd return. Nothing wrong with
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
>I made my feelings known to the owner of the cafe bakery that has a play
>area taking up space. I suggested that he get rid of that and put in a
>couple extra tables for paying customers. He said he couldn't do that
>because the woman who come in would be upset. My feeling was that they
>don't make any money off them and that they take up room for people who
>would be spending more.... and men don't go to places where kids are
>running free. The place went out of business a few months later.
having that type of setup if you can make money, but there will be a
number of people that want a quiet meal.
I've watched a few episodes of Restaurant Impossible. Some of the
owners would be better off just finding a job elsewhere.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Janet
Jun 4, 2012, 8:19:38 AM6/4/12
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In article <u88os7d6qq8t7n4id...@4ax.com>, e...@snet.net
says...
My mistake. So.. did she get the job, or does she still want it now she
knows where they eat...
Janet
says...
knows where they eat...
Janet
Nancy Young
Jun 4, 2012, 8:23:35 AM6/4/12
to
people do. There are usually people trying to scope out a couple
of seats. Don't get me started on the bar sitters who position
themselves so they effectively take up 4 spaces for two people.
If the bar becomes crowded with people waiting for a seat, I don't
sit there dawdling over the my last sip of whatever. I don't enjoy
taking up a seat once I'm not going to order anything else, let
someone else sit.
That's what would aggravate me about the campers in coffee shops.
You're not even ordering anything, can't you see people are stuck
with no place to sit and you're just hogging a table? So inconsiderate.
nancy
George
Jun 4, 2012, 8:26:59 AM6/4/12
to
don't think they use a specific branding.
Janet
Jun 4, 2012, 8:42:10 AM6/4/12
to
In article <pOVyr.86914$iz4....@unlimited.newshosting.com>,
adavid...@sympatico.ca says...
Hey, I'm not a man and I don't go to places where kids are running free
round other diners either.
One sight of a play-corner/ table toys and we just take our money
somewhere else.
Janet
adavid...@sympatico.ca says...
round other diners either.
One sight of a play-corner/ table toys and we just take our money
somewhere else.
Janet
Janet
Jun 4, 2012, 8:51:20 AM6/4/12
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In article <MPG.2a35faf4c...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local>,
jclark...@cox.net says...
I already caught up thanks.
One language divided by the atlantic. In UK-speak someone who had "an
interview at Dunkin Donuts", was being considered for a vacancy at Dunkin
Donuts.
Janet UK
Janet
jclark...@cox.net says...
One language divided by the atlantic. In UK-speak someone who had "an
interview at Dunkin Donuts", was being considered for a vacancy at Dunkin
Donuts.
Janet UK
Janet
Dave Smith
Jun 4, 2012, 8:56:20 AM6/4/12
to
would judge the success of a business by the amount of revenue they
generate and how long they stay in business.
Play this game for a second..... Imagine a cafe with 10 tables, each
with seating for 4, and assume an average turnover time for coffee and
occasional snack at a half hour. You have the potential for 80 customers
per hour. Some are having coffee and some are having snacks so assume $3
per person. There is potential there for $240 per hour at the tables.
It is more likely that the tables will average only 2 people at a time,
so that drops it to $120, which has to cover your labour, rent and other
expenses.
Now imagine each of those tables with one person, taking up a whole
table for two hours and buying one cup of coffee. That drops the sales
generated for those tables to only $15 per hour.
>
> You might, however, want to decide if you want to fight the crowd for
> your coffee or go elsewhere. Trying to second guess the owner's business
> strategy seems to be a waste of time.
snack. I want a place to sit down. If it is too crowded to find a seat I
go elsewhere. If it is frequently too crowded to get a seat, I stop going.
Dave Smith
Jun 4, 2012, 9:02:01 AM6/4/12
to
On 04/06/2012 12:07 AM, Jean B. wrote:
>> I am almost tempted to go to McDonalds to try their coffee. I know
>> that they made an effort to improve it and I know several people who
>> get it regularly and say that it is pretty good.
>
> I like their iced coffee, which seems not to be available in many
> states. I mainly used to get that on the way to and from the medieval
> fair[e]. Now I get it when I have to shoot out the door really early. I
> am very pleased with myself for not getting it (or anything else) there
> more, because there is a McD's quite near this abode. I think the last
> time I was in it was when a worker asked me to get him an iced
> beverage--and that was probably two years ago.
>
The last time I was at a McDs can be traced to my office location at the
>> I am almost tempted to go to McDonalds to try their coffee. I know
>> that they made an effort to improve it and I know several people who
>> get it regularly and say that it is pretty good.
>
> I like their iced coffee, which seems not to be available in many
> states. I mainly used to get that on the way to and from the medieval
> fair[e]. Now I get it when I have to shoot out the door really early. I
> am very pleased with myself for not getting it (or anything else) there
> more, because there is a McD's quite near this abode. I think the last
> time I was in it was when a worker asked me to get him an iced
> beverage--and that was probably two years ago.
>
time. I had stopped in at the one a few doors down from the office and
ordered a milkshake at the end of an afternoon shift that had been
particularly hot and miserable. I was told at the drivethru window that
the machine was broken. I was later told by someone that they say that
at night because the staff don't want to have to clean it.
About a year later I made the same mistake, except this time they did
not tell me at the order speaker than the machine was broken. I sat
there for more than 10 minutes while the car ahead of me got a huge
order. Then when I pulled up to the window I was told that the machine
was broken. I never liked their food, and the only reason I went for the
shake there was that they were open and I was desperate. I have not been
desperate enough to go back, and that is going back close to 20 years.
Nancy Young
Jun 4, 2012, 9:06:13 AM6/4/12
to
On 6/4/2012 8:51 AM, Janet wrote:
> One language divided by the atlantic. In UK-speak someone who had "an
> interview at Dunkin Donuts", was being considered for a vacancy at Dunkin
> Donuts.
Same here, but when he said And these were for management positions!
> One language divided by the atlantic. In UK-speak someone who had "an
> interview at Dunkin Donuts", was being considered for a vacancy at Dunkin
> Donuts.
I gathered they weren't interviews for Dunkin' Donuts. If it was, it
wouldn't be comment worthy that the interviews were held there. Like,
where else would you interview for a position at Dunkin' Donuts.
nancy
Janet
Jun 4, 2012, 9:25:11 AM6/4/12
to
In article <4fccb1f6$0$11910$882e...@usenet-news.net>, replyto@inemail
says...
Dunkin Donuts, etc.
Janet
says...
>
> On 6/4/2012 8:51 AM, Janet wrote:
>
> > One language divided by the atlantic. In UK-speak someone who had "an
> > interview at Dunkin Donuts", was being considered for a vacancy at Dunkin
> > Donuts.
>
> Same here, but when he said And these were for management positions!
yeah but IRTA, interview at Dunking Donuts for management position in
> On 6/4/2012 8:51 AM, Janet wrote:
>
> > One language divided by the atlantic. In UK-speak someone who had "an
> > interview at Dunkin Donuts", was being considered for a vacancy at Dunkin
> > Donuts.
>
> Same here, but when he said And these were for management positions!
Dunkin Donuts, etc.
Janet
Nancy Young
Jun 4, 2012, 9:35:16 AM6/4/12
to
I wouldn't expect to interview for a food place at some other food
place, naturally an interview for Dunkin' Donuts would be held there
at the store.
Know what I'm saying? I wouldn't expect someone to say they are
interviewing for a Dunkin' Donuts management position ... and the
interview was AT Dunkin' Donuts! Yeah, it would be.
No big deal, just saying it's not really one of those separated
by a common language things.
nancy
George
Jun 4, 2012, 10:04:55 AM6/4/12
to
office. That office would handle hiring/interviews.
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