Whatever happened to the Cheep Effects?

[Craig Kurtz]

My first novel.

Top that, lads.


https://www.amazon.com/Surviving-Dream-Based-Years-Twin/dp/B0C1J3FC9C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3NGPK8CRFSKB9&keywords=craig+kurtz&qid=1681130167&s=books&sprefix=craig+kurtz%2Cstripbooks%2C62&sr=1-1

[bruce bowser]

> Re: Whatever happened to the Cheep Effects?

They were replaced by the competition? Lux Effects, maybe?

[Bryan Simmons]

Seems more like an expose' than a "novel." I wonder
how many folks are going to shell out $25 for it. For
$25, one can buy two family packs of boneless ribeye
steaks at Save-a-Lot.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/36178182@N08/52806892067/in/dateposted-public/

--Bryan

[Mike Duffy]

On 2023-04-10, Bryan Simmons wrote:

> Seems more like an expose' than a "novel."

Great. Now we have our own clique
here of failed e-book authors.

[Bryan Simmons]

I didn't see a Kindle edition available. Only paperback.
$25.

--Bryan

[Craig Kurtz]

Considering I have been publised in Quadrant and Stand lately, it might be a *bit* premature to call my newest endeavor ‘failed.’

https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2023/03/craig-kurtz-the-cat-nobody-wants/

https://www.standmagazine.org/contributors/craig-kurtz/2014

But stay frustrated and grouchy if that turns you on.

[Bruce]

And the book has been out for 4 days. It's a bit early to speak of
failing.

[Dave Smith]

I will save my money and watch on TV, maybe on Jerry Springer or Dr. Phil.

[Bryan Simmons]

All of your endeavors have failed by Mike's standard,
which seems to be commercial success. One might
hope that you've worked enough *real* jobs to get at
least enough Social Security to keep you from poverty
in your dotage. You're not going to pay the bills with
Wartley Clusterfuck.

--Bryan

[Bruce]

Haven't they both retired?

[bruce bowser]

Critics have occasionally awaited some books for many days in advance. [Critici hebben af ​​en toe dagen van tevoren op sommige boeken gewacht].

[M Kfivethousand]

On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 1:29:42 PM UTC-5, Craig Kurtz wrote:
> On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 2:18:39 PM UTC-4, Bryan Simmons wrote:
> > On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 1:05:45 PM UTC-5, Mike Duffy wrote:
> > > On 2023-04-10, Bryan Simmons wrote:
> > >
> > > > Seems more like an expose' than a "novel."
> > > Great. Now we have our own clique
> > > here of failed e-book authors.
> > >
> > I didn't see a Kindle edition available. Only paperback.
> > $25.
> >
> > --Bryan
>
> "Now we have our own clique here of failed e-book authors."
> Considering I have been publised in Quadrant and Stand lately, it might be a *bit* premature to call my newest endeavor ‘failed.’

Ok let us know if it all works out.

mk5000

My love for you will always be
How can I live in misery
Mathilda I cried and cried for you
Darling no matter what you do==Mathilda
Recorded by Freddy Fender

[M Kfivethousand]

But do they retrieve his poop and carry it out in a briefcase?
That’s the mark of a TRUE king.
Like Putin

mk5000

One fine day as I was walking down the street
Spied a beggar man with rags upon his feet
Took a penny from my pocket
In his tin cup I did drop it==May The Bird Of Paradise Fly Up Your Nose
Recorded by Little Jimmy Dickens

[Sqwertz]

On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 11:00:03 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Simmons wrote:

> On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 11:28:01 AM UTC-5, Craig Kurtz wrote:
>> My first novel.
>>
>> Top that, lads.
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Surviving-Dream-Based-Years-Twin/dp/B0C1J3FC9C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3NGPK8CRFSKB9&keywords=craig+kurtz&qid=1681130167&s=books&sprefix=craig+kurtz%2Cstripbooks%2C62&sr=1-1
>>
> Seems more like an expose' than a "novel." I wonder
> how many folks are going to shell out $25 for it.

How many people paid $.99 for your book?

-sw

[Bryan Simmons]

Sixty-something. Over half the purchases were in British pounds.
99 cents for an ebook is cheaper than $25.
>
> -sw

--Bryan

[Sqwertz]

So you earned about $16 rthat cost you ~$30K in lost income.

Calliope Kurtz sells three and s/he's already beat you on the
income you earned from your book.

-sw

[Sqwertz]

Did we ever send you a "Sheep Effects" bumper sticker, at least?

-sw

[jmcquown]

On 4/11/2023 9:06 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 11:02:16 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Simmons wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, April 11, 2023 at 11:49:16 AM UTC-5, Sqwertz wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 11:00:03 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Simmons wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 11:28:01 AM UTC-5, Craig Kurtz wrote:
>>>>> My first novel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Top that, lads.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Surviving-Dream-Based-Years

(snipped)

>>>>>
>>>> Seems more like an expose' than a "novel." I wonder
>>>> how many folks are going to shell out $25 for it.
>>> How many people paid $.99 for your book?
>>>
>> Sixty-something. Over half the purchases were in British pounds.
>> 99 cents for an ebook is cheaper than $25.
>
> So you earned about $16 rthat cost you ~$30K in lost income.
>

Wait, wait, wait, Steve! The first time I recall Bryan yapping about
his e-book it was available FREE on Amazon. I sure as heck wouldn't
have paid $.99 to read it. And yes, I did read some of it before
getting bored with the terrible prose.

> Calliope Kurtz sells three and s/he's already beat you on the
> income you earned from your book.
>

No one will care about that book, either. This post is no doubt
engineered to try to lure John Kuthe back into his Cheep Effects posts.

Jill

[Bruce]

On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 19:41:43 -0400, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net>
wrote:

How do you know? Not everybody's a cloistered biddy.

[Hank Rogers]

Maybe the post was intended to get your majesty's panties in a wad.

It worked very well.

[Sqwertz]

Ahh, but Craig is a published writer already:

https://www.standmagazine.org/contributors/craig-kurtz/2014

And apparently has a real job as a special ed assistant at Burley
Middle School in Virginia making $29,323 last year (up from
$25,020 a year prior).

Looks like s/he's moving up the world and going places after that
hippie commune stint.

-sw

[Sqwertz]

And here I was digging up all that same info on my own not knowing
you already mentioned part of it.

Der.

-sw

[Sqwertz]

The printer made a mistake, so we got them for free. Now we just
need a band that does that "Baa, baa, baa" beat.

-sw

[bruce bowser]

On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 7:41:50 PM UTC-4, jmcquown wrote:
> On 4/11/2023 9:06 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> > On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 11:02:16 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Simmons wrote:
> >
> >> On Tuesday, April 11, 2023 at 11:49:16 AM UTC-5, Sqwertz wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 11:00:03 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Simmons wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 11:28:01 AM UTC-5, Craig Kurtz wrote:
> >>>>> My first novel.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Top that, lads.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Surviving-Dream-Based-Years
> (snipped)
> >>>>>
> >>>> Seems more like an expose' than a "novel." I wonder
> >>>> how many folks are going to shell out $25 for it.
> >>> How many people paid $.99 for your book?
> >>>
> >> Sixty-something. Over half the purchases were in British pounds.
> >> 99 cents for an ebook is cheaper than $25.
> >
> > So you earned about $16 rthat cost you ~$30K in lost income.
> >
> Wait, wait, wait, Steve! The first time I recall Bryan yapping about
> his e-book it was available FREE on Amazon. I sure as heck wouldn't
> have paid $.99 to read it. And yes, I did read some of it before
> getting bored with the terrible prose.

How many drugs do you think the author took while writing the book?

[Thomas Joseph]

Bryan Simmons wrote:

> Seems more like an expose' than a "novel." I wonder
> how many folks are going to shell out $25 for it.

Depending on what they're exposing I'd probably take it
over a novel. I wouldn't shell out $25 for any book. Money
does not determine a writer's value. I am not a great writer -
some, many might say I am not a writer period. Either way
the best artists in any category are not concerned with
making money. They may want money. But if they try to
sell their art then they are not artists. All of them, I don't
care who they are. As far as I'm concerned you have to die to
be an artist. It's an automatic.

"No doubt about it, he was good. But just think how much
better he'd have been had he lived."

That's bullshit of course. The longer most artists hang around
the lousier they get. IMO.

[Thomas Joseph]

Craig Kurtz wrote:

> Considering I have been publised in Quadrant and Stand lately, it might be a *bit* premature to call my newest endeavor ‘failed.’

This reminds me of an actor who finally gets to do a national
TV commercial. It goes over big. Every time it comes on TV
he yells, "Shhhhh, there I am - look, my first gig!" And his last.
Sickening isn't it, an actor achieving the pinnacle of success
with his first and only commercial.

[Craig Kurtz]

Since I’m in a nostalgic mood, contradictorily the consequence of showing off my latest project, I will make a point or two…

When Mike Duffy sneers about (paraphrasing) ‘a loser basement band with no followers,’ he really speaks from HIS experience, not the experience of said ‘band,’ the Cheep Effects. The Cheep Effects wasn’t (even) a band, it was a *party.* A clique. An in-joke. Ask Bryan (who crashed our first studio recording) if we were trying to ‘make it.’ We didn’t even want HIM as a fan!

Of course (as you all know), over the years, Kuthe turns the Cheep Effects into some kind of *one-man cult.* That’s on him; not me.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/omeka-net/716/archive/files/9b3dea6b9dbadee50087bb2cca501c0b.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAI3ATG3OSQLO5HGKA&Expires=1682553600&Signature=%2BAewHfimWcqFzaXpJ4piQSDFi0Y%3D

Now, speaking a bit about about Eric Schmidt. Kuthe loses the narrative when he moves into St. Louis county around 1980. The Cheep Effects turned into The Committee (see above copy from Noisy Paper) which is Eric, Carrie and myself. That was a *far-more* avant-garde band. Almost NO instruments whatsoever. It wasn’t anything but an underground project. Except (for a laugh), we sent KSHE a copy of a ‘composition’ for their Homegrown show and (unbelievably) they *played it.* We followed up that ‘success’ by *breaking up.* (No audio artifacts extant.)

Eric was a brilliant songwriter and musician. Then he joined the Army and dropped off the map. No other details about him have ever arose.

Then I did a ‘punk record’ called the Philosophic Collage. Duffy should remember the whole ‘punk thing’ was a grassroots scene. There wasn’t any idea of ‘commerical success.’ It was more political. Although it was reissued and I made my initial investment ($550) back! I never intended to get my investment back!

All you guys laughing about ‘failed’ artistic attempts, well, you really don’t *get it.* The whole corporate paradigm has you seeing a particular type of (non)art from a faulty lens. Punk wasn’t Disney, lads!

https://www.punkglobe.com/thephilosophiccollagereview1212.php

If I was after some sort of commercial validation, I woud have written a sequel to Twilight or some shit. Or, imitated the Sex Pistols pathetically (like Bryan).

[Mike Duffy]

On 2023-04-14, Craig Kurtz wrote:

> When Mike Duffy sneers about (paraphrasing)
> ‘a loser basement band with no followers,’

Actually, it was NOT me who said that.

> All you guys laughing about ‘failed’ artistic
> attempts, well, you really don’t *get it.*

You are probably not aware that my own attempt
at literature was even more of a failure than
either yours or Bryan's. Since it was intended
as a book for children, I don't really expect
many 'followers' here. So far nobody has
admitted to reading the whole thing:


http://mduffy.x10host.com/dogdayafternoon.htm

There is also some poetry on the web-site - enjoy!

[Craig Kurtz]

Mike,

I'm not sure you get what I'm trying to say. When *you* say "even more of a failure than
either yours or Bryan's," you seem to use a market metric. What I'm saying is *you* get to decide what constitutes either 'failure' or 'success.' My new project *Surviving the Dream* isn't intending to be a "bestseller" or any of that crap; it's supposed to tweak Twin Oaks' propganda people and possibly warn off any idealistic kids who want info about the place. Remember Kafka? Nietzsche? Shelley? They were also (market) 'failures,' the latter two 'reduced' to self-publishing. I'm sorry if *you* didn't find (your own) 'success' as a writer. (Your site seems low on text; is it a program?)

[Craig Kurtz]

Some of the poetry (light verse) is cute.

[Craig Kurtz]

And what do *I* consider 'success'? Same criteria I've had since 1979. ORIGINALITY. (The one thig the market usually rejects.)

[dsi1]

rfc is one tough crowd. They don't respond well to integrity.

[Mike Duffy]

On 2023-04-14, Craig Kurtz wrote:

>> I'm not sure you get what I'm trying to say. When
>> *you* say "even more of a failure than either yours
>> or Bryan's," you seem to use a market metric.

It's worse than that. My e-book is free, yet to
my knowledge, nobody has admitted to reading it
all the way to the end.

>> (Your site seems low on text; is it a program?)

I'm not sure what you mean. the opening page
allows one to change the names of the characters,
as it is intended for children.

Check the box to agree to the license terms and then
push the button to generate the personalized story.

> Some of the poetry (light verse) is cute.

Thanks.

[Thomas Joseph]

Craig Kurtz wrote:

> All you guys laughing about ‘failed’ artistic attempts, well, you
really don’t *get it.* The whole corporate paradigm has you seeing
a particular type of (non)art from a faulty lens. Punk wasn’t Disney, lads!
>
> https://www.punkglobe.com/thephilosophiccollagereview1212.php
>
> If I was after some sort of commercial validation, I woud have
written a sequel to Twilight or some shit. Or, imitated the Sex Pistols
pathetically (like Bryan).

I have never been involved in the Cheap Effects conversation.
I have no opinion on it other than to guess that if I were to
hear them play I probably wouldn't like it. But that's a safe
guess as most stuff coming out - success or not - is garbage
and you know it. Anyway, I was not into the cheap effects
discussion in any way and may have hopped into it because
I saw an opportunity to talk about something else, something
far more important and yet casual, something that can be
accepted or dismissed, not debated over forever. I have also
never followed the Kuthe saga but am aware of it and also
enjoyed your histrionic take on it (to a point).

[Thomas Joseph]

Craig Kurtz wrote:

> I'm not sure you get what I'm trying to say. When *you* say "even more of a failure than
> either yours or Bryan's," you seem to use a market metric. What I'm saying is *you* get to decide what constitutes either 'failure' or 'success.' My new project *Surviving the Dream* isn't intending to be a "bestseller" or any of that crap; it's supposed to tweak Twin Oaks' propganda people and possibly warn off any idealistic kids who want info about the place. Remember Kafka? Nietzsche? Shelley? They were also (market) 'failures,' the latter two 'reduced' to self-publishing. I'm sorry if *you* didn't find (your own) 'success' as a writer. (Your site seems low on text; is it a program?)

I have already written a book on the subject. It is called "Winning
Through Losing", and explains how in the long run losing is better
than winning every time, although coming out somewhere in the
middle is best of all behind not trying at all.

[Mike Duffy]

On 2023-04-14, Thomas Joseph wrote:

> I have also never followed the Kuthe saga but am aware
> of it and also enjoyed your histrionic take on it

Heads up, TJ. I'm not sure if I'm getting anyone mixed-up,
but I think Bryan said Craig hates John more than even Bryan
does, and Bryan wants to see John dead.

[Thomas Joseph]

Mike Duffy wrote:
Thomas Joseph wrote:


> > I have also never followed the Kuthe saga but am aware

> > of it and also enjoyed your histrionic take on it.

> Heads up, TJ. I'm not sure if I'm getting anyone mixed-up,
> but I think Bryan said Craig hates John more than even Bryan
> does, and Bryan wants to see John dead.

It's teamwork. Bryan's job is to wish Kuthe to death. Craig's
job is to bring Kuthe back to life so they can kill him again -
and again and again. The hate for Kuthe is shared equally
by the Bryan/Craig compendium. (First time ever using that
word, going strictly by feel and hearing it once or twice in
context - I enjoy doing that). Anyway, that's the way it goes
with teamwork - one guy to beat Kuthe to death, the other
to beat him back to life for an ongoing never-ending repeat
performance of agony for Kuthe, dying in agony - and then
just when he's getting used to being dead and just wanting to
be left alone he is suddenly beaten back to life for more torment -
a torment that never ends. Not if I have anything to say about it.

God, I hate that sumnabitch

[Thomas Joseph]

Just now looked up the definition of compendium and it's
close enough to satisfy the way I used it. I enjoy using words
without knowing fully what they mean. Who knows, using a
word incorrectly but where everyone knows what you mean
could be better in the long run than the real word. Give it
new meaning. Take it to a higher level. Rewrite the dictionary
by tossing it in the garbage.

Eschew the real
Go with the feel
Dig on the vibe
On the words you imbibe
Groove on the sound
Of the truth you have found
Toss out the book
And cook daddy cook

[Craig Kurtz]

Sold 12 (so far). $127. And my ad in Communities mag hasn't even run yet.

[Gregory Morrow]

In article <271dd351-ed70-4df4...@googlegroups.com>, cku...@k12albemarle.org says...

https://postimg.cc/qNMF3V8D

--
GM

[Craig Kurtz]

Jesus christ, is that what you look like?

[Gregory Morrow]

In article <c83f1b6e-d6ff-44e2...@googlegroups.com>, cku...@k12albemarle.org says...

> Jesus christ, is that what Bryan looks like?
>
>
https://imgur.com/a/A7rG3YF

--
GM

[Mike Duffy]

On 2023-05-01, Gregory Morrow wrote:

> cku...@k12albemarle.org says...

>> Sold 12 (so far). $127. And my ad in
>> Communities mag hasn't even run yet.


> https://postimg.cc/qNMF3V8D

I really hate to have to explain this publicly
again, but my ebook was even more of a failure
than Bryan's.

It's completely free, but so far nobody has
admitting to reading it, yet alone liking it.

This despite that I put the voting requirement
down to 1/2 book so John could participate too.

[bob]

He looks a little better when he hoses off... and gives himself a fresh
bowl cut.

[Bruce]

On Mon, 01 May 2023 18:20:10 GMT, Mike Duffy <mxd...@bell.net> wrote:

>On 2023-05-01, Gregory Morrow wrote:
>
>> cku...@k12albemarle.org says...
>
>>> Sold 12 (so far). $127. And my ad in
>>> Communities mag hasn't even run yet.
>
>
>> https://postimg.cc/qNMF3V8D
>
>I really hate to have to explain this publicly
>again, but my ebook was even more of a failure
>than Bryan's.

We know. You've told us many times.

[Bruce]

The problem is more with what he says.

[bob]

The real problem is his brain or lack thereof.

[Bruce]

[Craig Kurtz]

> I really hate to have to explain this publicly
again, but my ebook was even more of a failure

than Bryan's. It's completely free, but so far nobody has
admitting to reading it, yet alone liking it.

I wrote my first novel in 1988. I threw it away without showing it to anyone. It wasn’t a ‘failure’ however because it led me to make a better effort with the next attempt (which also got chucked). The failure is *giving up.*

Making it free won’t bring you readers. The main investment is a person’s time. The struggle is to find an interesting angle. It took me having 13 years’ worth of hippie commune experience to finally arrive at an interesting theme.

I’ve sold another 10 this month. If I can break even on the copyright, the ISBN and my advertisig, I’ll be the biggest success I know.