why is it called contra dancing?
MrKenDavis
As I tell my friends about it, they ask me why it's called contra dancing.
They also ask where is it from and what kind of music is it. I would
appreciate good short answers to these questions for the purpose of
telling frienda and for my own edification
Don N Ward
In article <4rr5mn$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, mrken...@aol.com (MrKenDavis) wrote:
why it's called contra dancing?
Here is an article I wrote for the August issue of American Square Dance Magaszine answering the same question.
ASD 8/96
This month I am going to answer a readers request to explain ³What is contra dancing².
Historically Contra dances are older than squares. They come from the English Longways dances dating back to the 1600¹s and perhaps earlier. The term contra is derived from the word contrary. The dance formation consists of two contrary lines of dancers, literally and physically opposite (contrary) to each other.
The early English dances were truly Victorian in nature. The men all danced in one line the ladies in the opposite line. What little physical contact there was consisted of a hand touch, not even a hold. The mans palm was turned up and the lady rested her hand in his palm. We continue to use this same position in square dancing today. The promenade and courtesy turns are examples.
Early settlers from England brought this dance form with them and in many cases these tended to be same gender dances since the ballroom swing position was not used. In its place dancers used a two hand turn. One of the most popular contra dances of that day was Sir Roger De Coverly. Better know to us as the Virginia Reel.
The contra dances of today are not relics of a bygone era. They are a delightful and uncomplicated form of dancing. For the most part they use common square dance movements. (Squares dances actually took these movements from the contras). Basic contras use 12 to 15 square dance movements. If one is looking for some challenge they need look no farther than todays contra. Or by contrast a delightful social dance where you dance with not just 8 people in a square but 15 to 20 people in the line which contra dancers call a ³set².
The two basic contra formations most popular today are ²Alternates² and ³Beckets². In the alternate (duple) formation partners are in opposite lines facing each other and upon completion of the dance figure move onto the next couple with partners always across from each other. In the Becket formation you partner is next to you just like a square dance formation and you dance in this position with each couple in turn along the line.
Contras offer the dancer sociability, repeatable dance routines, challenge without complication, all based on no more than 8 or 9 movements in a complete figure. These are matched to the 64 counts of music just like a square dance singing call.
Contras are gaining popularity throughout the dance community because the dancer can dance in unison with the music, much like a round dance, but using the square dance movements they are familiar with. My suggestion is, try em. You¹ll like em.
I hope this helps.
Don Ward
Matt Billmers
mrken...@aol.com (MrKenDavis) wrote:
I have no reason other than my own intuition to believe this is true,
but...
The latin preposition 'contra' means 'against,' or 'facing.' In the
dancing context it refers to the to lines facing each other.
-Matt
--
Matthew Billmers mbil...@neon.ci.lexington.ma.us
http://neon.ci.lexington.ma.us/SpamCentral/mbillmer/
Mercury: The Winged Messenger
wesle...@delphi.com
MrKenDavis <mrken...@aol.com> writes:
>As I tell my friends about it, they ask me why it's called contra dancing.
>They also ask where is it from and what kind of music is it. I would
>appreciate good short answers to these questions for the purpose of
>telling frienda and for my own edification
is a corruption of the English term country-dance which was converted into
French and then re-introduced into England. Another theory is that the
term contra refers to the opposing lines. The OED says this is erroneous.
Mike Mudrey
In article <4s1le8$6...@news-old.tiac.net>,
mbil...@neon.ci.lexington.ma.us says...
>
>mrken...@aol.com (MrKenDavis) wrote:
>
>>As I tell my friends about it, they ask me why it's called contra dancing.
>>They also ask where is it from and what kind of music is it. I would
>>appreciate good short answers to these questions for the purpose of
>>telling frienda and for my own edification
>
>but...
>
>The latin preposition 'contra' means 'against,' or 'facing.' In the
>dancing context it refers to the to lines facing each other.
>
>-Matt
>--
>Matthew Billmers mbil...@neon.ci.lexington.ma.us
>http://neon.ci.lexington.ma.us/SpamCentral/mbillmer/
>Mercury: The Winged Messenger
>
in "country dance."
Charles L Rapport
wesle...@delphi.com writes:
>MrKenDavis <mrken...@aol.com> writes:
>
>>As I tell my friends about it, they ask me why it's called contra dancing.
>>They also ask where is it from and what kind of music is it. I would
>>appreciate good short answers to these questions for the purpose of
>>telling frienda and for my own edification
>
>The Oxford English Dictionary says that the term Contra-Dance or Contre-Dance
>is a corruption of the English term country-dance which was converted into
>French and then re-introduced into England. Another theory is that the
>term contra refers to the opposing lines. The OED says this is erroneous.
Are there any confirmed reports of OED writers sighted at contra dances?
Charlie
Charles L Rapport
mbil...@neon.ci.lexington.ma.us (Matt Billmers) writes:
>The latin preposition 'contra' means 'against,' or 'facing.' In the
>dancing context it refers to the to lines facing each other.
In this living, hence changing, dance form, that "against" seems to be
taken quite literally. "Facing" seems sometimes to have been expanded to
"facing off", and "contra" expanded to "contrary"....
But then, Mathew, I have, "little Latin and less Greek".
Unless, of course the Greek is dancing.
See you Thursday, but beware -- I am programming.....
Charlie
Mircosoft user
wesle...@delphi.com wrote:
>
> MrKenDavis <mrken...@aol.com> writes:
>
> >As I tell my friends about it, they ask me why it's called contra dancing.
> >They also ask where is it from and what kind of music is it. I would
> >appreciate good short answers to these questions for the purpose of
> >telling frienda and for my own edification
>
> The Oxford English Dictionary says that the term Contra-Dance or Contre-Dance
> is a corruption of the English term country-dance which was converted into
> French and then re-introduced into England. Another theory is that the
> term contra refers to the opposing lines. The OED says this is erroneous.
What the hell does the OED know?! Everyone knows that contra dancing
originated in Nicaragua!
Hey Wes!
Just cruising at work. A buddy taught me how to get our computer here
onto the net.
Flamingly yours (or maybe that's not a good thing to say),
Jim
Daniel Luecking
B. Parkes <bpa...@delphi.com> writes:
>Matt Billmers <mbil...@neon.ci.lexington.ma.us> writes:
>
>>The latin preposition 'contra' means 'against,' or 'facing.' In the
>>dancing context it refers to the to lines facing each other.
>
>This is a common bit of folk etymology. It makes sense,
>therefore it must be true. Although widely stated in contra
>dance circles, the term contra dance did not originate from
>"across from." The person who quoted Oxford English dictionary
>had it right: contra dance is a French corruption of the English
>word country.
>
>As I understand it, English dancing got very popular in France.
>There they tried to call it country dance but it got changed.
>Later, everything French got really popular in England,
>including our old friend, now forgotten, more or less, in England
>and imported to England from France as contredanse or
>contradance.
So why did the french corrupt it to "contre" or "contra"? Is it really
only because that sounds like "country"? Or is it because the word means
"across" and that is the formation used? Why is the usage
"contra dance" limited to longways sets? Are not quadrilles, circles,
and various other formations also country dances? I maintain that both
theories are correct: The French corrupted "country dance" and the
English reimported the word, but in the process it came to be applied
only to the longways formation, and THAT was because of the meaning
"across" for "contre".
It is not clear whether dictionaries look closely enough into the
etymology of a word to determine WHY a corruption occurred the way it
did.
Dan
--
Daniel H. Luecking luec...@comp.uark.edu
Department of Mathematical Sciences +--------------------------------
University of Arkansas | You won't catch me using none
Fayetteville, Arkansas | o' them dang'd euphemisms!
Bo Bradham
Daniel Luecking <luec...@comp.uark.edu> wrote:
>B. Parkes <bpa...@delphi.com> writes:
>
>>This is a common bit of folk etymology. It makes sense,
>>therefore it must be true. Although widely stated in contra
>>dance circles, the term contra dance did not originate from
>>"across from." The person who quoted Oxford English dictionary
>>had it right: contra dance is a French corruption of the English
>>word country.
>>
>only because that sounds like "country"? Or is it because the word means
>I maintain that both
>theories are correct: The French corrupted "country dance" and the
>English reimported the word, but in the process it came to be applied
>only to the longways formation, and THAT was because of the meaning
>"across" for "contre".
The water was starting to get muddy so I looked in the OED and
Daniel's take seems to be in accord with what I found:
contre-dan ..contre-dance, -danse, contra-dance. [after Fr. contre-
danse, Ital. and Sp. contra danza, all corruptions of the English word
COUNTRY-DANCE, by the conversion of its first element into the Fr. con-
tre, Ital., Sp. contra against, opposite.]
The English country-dance was introduced into France during the
Regency 1715-23, and thence passed into Italy and Spain; cf. Littre,
s.v. Contre-danse[2], and Venuti, Scoperte di Ercolano (Rome 1748) 114
`I canti, i balli..che a noi sono pervenuti con vocabolo Inglese di con-
traddanze, Country Dances, quasi invenzione degli Inglesi contadini'.
The arrangement of the partners in a country-dance in two opposite
lines of indefinite length easily suggested the perversion of country
into contre-, contra- opposite. Littre's theory, that there was already
in 17th c. a French contre-danse with which the English word was con-
fused and ran together, is not tenable; no trace of the name has been
found in French before its appearance as an adaptation of the English.
So Beth had it right in that "contra" did not originate with
"Contrary" or any such thing. But the happy accident of the
French adopting "Country" from English and the resemblance to the
French "contre" make it a kind of bi-lingual pun.
The confusion is not of recent origin, either. Here is more from
the OED:
But new dances of this type were subsequently brought out in France, and
introduced into England with the Frenchified form of the name, which led
some Englishmen to the erroneous notion that the French was the original
and correct form, and the English a corruption of it. Thus a writer in
the Gentleman's Magazine 1758, p. 174 said, `As our dances in general
come from France, so does the country-dance, which is a manifest corrup-
tion of the French contre-danse, where a number of persons placing them-
selves opposite one to another, begin a figure'. Partly under the
influence of this erroneous notion as to the etymology, partly as a mere
retention of the French form, contra-dance, contre-dance have been used,
and contre-danse continued in use, esp. for a French or foreign dance of
this type.
What was the question?
Bo Bradham
--
"If it's their mistake, tough. If it's our mistake we negotiate."
- Overheard
B. Parkes
Matt Billmers <mbil...@neon.ci.lexington.ma.us> writes:
>The latin preposition 'contra' means 'against,' or 'facing.' In the
>dancing context it refers to the to lines facing each other.
therefore it must be true. Although widely stated in contra
dance circles, the term contra dance did not originate from
"across from." The person who quoted Oxford English dictionary
had it right: contra dance is a French corruption of the English
word country.
There they tried to call it country dance but it got changed.
Later, everything French got really popular in England,
including our old friend, now forgotten, more or less, in England
and imported to England from France as contredanse or
contra dance (two words)
The fact that this idea of contra meaning across from may have
helped the name survive in modern American usage. It sure
gets said a lot at American dances. It seems to be a part of our
modern contra dance movement mythology. Similar to the times
I have heard someone say "These dances have been being danced
just the way you see them for hundreds of years." Never mind
that not one dance called that night was over 20 years old or that
the buzz step swing was not danced in this form of dance prior
to the 1800s. Even the chestnuts, which are really old, have
been seriously modified (usually to add a swing).
Mythology is a good thing. It gives a people an identity. It has
its own truth, separate from any sense of literal truth.
Therefore the folk etymology may be true, even though not
historically accurate.
Beth
Bob Dalsemer
> But new dances of this type were subsequently brought out in France, and
> introduced into England with the Frenchified form of the name, which led
> some Englishmen to the erroneous notion that the French was the original
> and correct form, and the English a corruption of it. Thus a writer in
> the Gentleman's Magazine 1758, p. 174 said, `As our dances in general
> come from France, so does the country-dance, which is a manifest corrup-
> tion of the French contre-danse, where a number of persons placing them-
> selves opposite one to another, begin a figure'. Partly under the
> influence of this erroneous notion as to the etymology, partly as a mere
> retention of the French form, contra-dance, contre-dance have been used,
> and contre-danse continued in use, esp. for a French or foreign dance of
> this type.
Wow, Bo, that's some research you done there! How about giving us your
whole bibliography.
I seem to recall that by the 18th century, French was the official
language of dance instruction. So everyone used French terms including
contredanse (the germans and Scandinavians called it Kontradanse, still
do.) And, by the way, the most popular French contredanses were done in
squares (!) not longways sets. The term Kontradanse is still found in
German, Scandinavian and Russian folk dance referring to dances in square
formation.
Bo Bradham
Bob Dalsemer <dals...@grove.net> wrote:
>(Bo Bradham) wrote:
>
>> But new dances of this type were subsequently brought out in France, and
>> introduced into England with the Frenchified form of the name, which led
>> some Englishmen to the erroneous notion that the French was the original
>
>Wow, Bo, that's some research you done there! How about giving us your
>whole bibliography.
'T weren't nothing. I ripped it all from the pages of the OED.
Charles L Rapport
I don't believe in any of the folkloric history that has been revealed
during the discussion of this question.
Cecil Sharpe invented English Country Dancing.
Miss Millikin invented Scottish Country Dancing.
And, witnessing the success of these two, Ralph Page invented American
Contradancing.
Charlie
C. Clark
In article <BFEOuf9...@delphi.com>, bpa...@delphi.com says...
>Later, everything French got really popular in England,
>including our old friend, now forgotten, more or less, in England
It was hardly forgotten in England until about the late nineteenth
century. In the period when extensive cross-pollination between English
country dance and and French contredanse is first documented (the early
eighteenth century) there were a good many books about country dancing
published in England--see the bibliography in _The_Playford_Ball_.
The reason why France had a great influence over English country dancing
was not that the dances had been forgotten in England. I think it was
because the French court had recently (in the reign of Louis XIV)
developed the classic courtly ballet, and so any kind of dancing done in
France was in fashion because of its association with French ballet.
Alex Clark
Gilbert Aubin
B. Parkes (bpa...@delphi.com) wrote:
: Matt Billmers <mbil...@neon.ci.lexington.ma.us> writes:
:
: >The latin preposition 'contra' means 'against,' or 'facing.' In the
: >dancing context it refers to the to lines facing each other.
:
: This is a common bit of folk etymology. It makes sense,
: therefore it must be true. Although widely stated in contra
: dance circles, the term contra dance did not originate from
: "across from." The person who quoted Oxford English dictionary
: had it right: contra dance is a French corruption of the English
: word country.
This is not only your idea, most of the contributors have this false
notion. Why would be contra corruption of the English word? French came
before English, it was spoken in England, but the basically Germanic
speaking population (the Saxons) had no idea how to pronounce the words
properly. Most of the English language is therefore a corruption of
French, not the other way. MOre specifically, "country" is clearly the
corruption of the French "contree", with a forward slash, an accent egu
on the first 'e'.
And "contree" is not the word that is used in the "contredanse". I don't
pretend knowing right answer, but in fact I thought it is the actives
and the inactives going in opposite direction, against each other. That
is the way it is understood in California where I usedto dance. I thought
so, until I read in this thread that four couple set danses are also
called contras. I don't know about that, inthe Quebec usage, which
usually reliably indicates the French usage two hundred years earlier, a
contredanse is a longway set.
MSchway
Actually, it's a shortened form of "contrary" as exhibited in the
following scenario:
Caller: Alright folks, square 'em up.
Crowd in unison: Aw, gee, do we *have* to??
Send flames to:
Mike Schway
msc...@aol.com
John Price
In message <DutBn...@world.std.com>
> Charlie
I'd believe this if we didn't have film footage of country dancing
recorded as long ago as the 16th century (admittedly only in black and white).
I've only just arrived on this thread. Has anyone explained why all
this moving around is called "dancing"? As a morris dancer, that's
the question I'm most frequently asked. I smile mysteriously and say
"No one really knows." I find that by far more effective than
attempting etymological or philological analysis.
--
john....@zetnet.co.uk
a.k.a. jOHN of St Albans
Paul Tyler
luec...@comp.uark.edu (Daniel Luecking) wrote:
>
>So why did the french corrupt it to "contre" or "contra"? Is it really
>only because that sounds like "country"? Or is it because the word means
>"contra dance" limited to longways sets? Are not quadrilles, circles,
>theories are correct: The French corrupted "country dance" and the
>English reimported the word, but in the process it came to be applied
>only to the longways formation, and THAT was because of the meaning
>"across" for "contre".
You may be right about the serendipitous nature of the French corruption.
But you should also be aware that in 18th century dancers distinguished the
(plese excuse my inabilities with French) "contredanse Anglaise" from the
"contredanse Francaise," the latter being a cotillion or square formation
dance. And when the quadrille, another type of square, was introduced in
the early 19th century, it was known as a "quadrille de contredanses," of
course that meant that you dance figures with the couple opposite you in a
square formation. Also, please remember that many dances popularized as
country dances by the earlier editions of Playford were done in squares or
squarettes (I just invented a term for two couples dancing all by
themselves). Of course, the longways dances with the one-position-at-a-time
progression familiar to use, predominated in later editions of Playford.
The facts are so much cooler than the myths.
Paul Tyler
C. Clark
In article <4sm991$s...@panix2.panix.com>, bra...@panix.com says...
>[quoting the Wise Clerks of Oxenford :-)]
> The English country-dance was introduced into France during the
>Regency 1715-23, and thence passed into Italy and Spain;
I wonder where they came up with that. Feuillet's book about English-type
country dances, _Recueil_de_Contredanses_, was published in 1706, and
there were one or two French manuscripts about English country dancing
from the late seventeenth century. I think that by 1715 English country
dancing had already been under the influence of French contredanse for a
few decades or so.
Alex Clark
Ed Baggott
I tried to start up contra dancing in the Jackson Mississippi in the mid - 80's. I put up flyers
in all the places I could think where I might attract the sort of folks who would be interested
in that sort of thing, ie, the food co-op, the Sierra Club meetings, etc. The food co-op people
stayed away because they did not want to do *anything* to support the Contra rebels.
This is an example of the kind of critical, independent thinking that really fills me full of
hope for the future.
Yrs, Ed
Gilbert Aubin
R. B. CAMPBELL (camp...@cobra.uni.edu) wrote:
: In article <4srgos$c...@milo.vcn.bc.ca>, gil...@vcn.bc.ca (Gilbert Aubin) writes:
: > MOre specifically, "country" is clearly the
: > on the first 'e'.
: from the Latin contra(ta) meaning 'opposite'. So as I understand the argument,
: the origin of contra is not the meaning opposite, but it comes from contree,
: which comes from contra, which means opposite. And the use in France is not
: based on French usage, but on French imitating the English, imitating French?
: R. Campbell
Don't try to mix things up, they are confused to a large extent already as
a result of official "science" trying to make us believe a certain set of
lies. You brought the best example, citing the government propaganda work
"Oxford Concise Dictionary".
French does not come from Latin.
If you read old French and Spanish texts, dated just a short while after
the decay of the Roman empire, you realize that they are only written
slightly differently, but spoken pretty much the same way as they are
today. It is not changes from Latin or vulgar Latin that make up those
differences between the so called Latin languages. They might have come
from a common source, but that common source differentiated more like
fifty thousand years ago, and the speakers of todays French, Romanian,
Castellan, etc all spoke different, non indo european languages before
they learned their present idiom. This can be seen from the river names
throughout the region, as well as some common nouns and expressions.
More specificly, back to "contree" it seems to me that the clue is in
the usage of "contre" as in putting something against the wall. You don't
turn the sideboard facing the wall, because then you cannot use it, you
can't open the drawers. Still, in French, you say you put it "against"
the wall, which shows that "contre" also has a meaning of being close to
something. Obviously, this is not so in Latin, but was said that way in
the language the French used before they took over French. The reason I
believe this is in the times of relatively not long ago, under
Charlemagne, France and Germany was one country with a common language, the
Francique or Fraenkish. In todays German, "gegen" means against, the noun
from this is "Die Gegend", and it means, exactly like in French, the area
close to the speaker. The correspondence "contre - gegen" and "contree -
Gegend" cannot be a coincidence.
So it is not surprising that any set dance, including four couple sets,
is "contre". But it has nothing to do with the French taking over any
English word. It simply means that the dancers are close to each other,
stay in each others proximity, as opposed to any other couple dance where
they don't (waltz, hambo, schottische, you name it).
R. B. CAMPBELL
Paul M. Gifford
>I seem to recall that by the 18th century, French was the official
>language of dance instruction. So everyone used French terms including
>contredanse (the germans and Scandinavians called it Kontradanse, still
>do.) And, by the way, the most popular French contredanses were done in
>squares (!) not longways sets. The term Kontradanse is still found in
>German, Scandinavian and Russian folk dance referring to dances in square
>formation.
French was the unofficial language of the European upper crust in the 18th
century, and fashions in dancing and clothing emanated out of Paris. One of
the most exotic locations for contradances that I've found was at a "boyar's"
(nobleman's) dance in Romania about 1813, which included, among other dances,
the *manimasca.* I posted this information a while back. The peasants did
their dances, and the boyars did the stylish international dances, with no
apparent mixing. The quadrille is found in Russia, Italy, Poland, etc.
Paul Gifford