The eternal question: shoes
Randolph Fritz
such a newbie, asking (blush, blush). :-) Besides, I've seen this
discussion before--wish I'd saved it then!
In any event: I'm a relative newcomer to contra and English dancing
living in the San Francisco Bay Area. After some months I've decided
to go out and buy a pair of dance shoes. I've seen a couple of pairs
I've liked: one a "folk-dance shoe" (I kid you not)--a lightweight
shoe with suede-covered leather sole and heel and a jazz shoe with a
bit of rubber under the suede-covered sole and heel. They both seem
pretty good & I'm wondering which would do better--any opinions?
In general, what do people do for shoes, anyhow? I know it's one of
these religious discussions, so would the members of various faiths
please make themselves known. :-)
R.
Noemi
few before I found my current, well-loved pair.
I started out with those cheap black Chinese-style shoes. They were
comfortable in my everyday life...but on the dance floor, they felt like
they were going to fall off. And they offered no suppport at all. I
tried tennis shoes, but of course, the soles were all wrong--no slip. I
have worn them occasionally, like at the end of a weekend dance camp,
when my feet wanted pillows but settled for tennies. I have seen people
who had leather soles applied to a pair of tennies. Seems like it could
work. My next attempt was a pair of red cloth shoes with worn-out
rubber soles. The soles were right, but again, not enough support. I
suffered for a while, experimenting with nearly everything in my Imelda
Marcos Memorial Collection.
Finally, my ankles dictated a serious search. I was starting to hurt
them. I found myself one day in front of a dance store--you know,
Capezios and lycra and tutus. They had a pair of high-top leather jazz
shoes, the kind with the suede soles. I've worn them for over a year
now, and wouldn't trade them for anything. They snug around my
ankles--not really holding them up, but reminding me when I twist them
the wrong way, not to. The suede sometimes picks up wax from
overly-tended floors, but a short wire brush takes care of that.
They're comfortable, they breathe well, and they've held up wonderfully.
Of course, I haven't lent a single letter to your real question--the
difference between the rubber soles and the suede. I can only tell you
that I love my suede soles. They have just the right amount (for me) of
both "grab" and "slip".
Yes, I'm certain you'll get plenty of discussion on this one!
Noemi
Kiran Wagle
> I have seen people who had leather soles applied to a pair of tennies.
> Seems like it could work.
Apparently it does. I met someone with a pair of those at the Pigtown
Fling, and *I* sure could have used some at Knoxville.
> Of course, I haven't lent a single letter to your real question--the
> difference between the rubber soles and the suede.
My walking shoes are a pair of (brand new!) Merrell Molokai sandals, and
I'm going to get another pair and have leather soles put on them. There's
nothing like an inch of rubber and hiking-boot constuction to keep you
from injuring yourself when you dance on a wood-over-concrete floor.
I couldn't imagine dancing without lots and lots of cushioning, and most
shoes sold as "dance shoes" don't seem to.
~ Kiran
--
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--Dr Emilio Lizardo/Lord John Whorfin in _Buckaroo Banzai_
1628 5th St NW Washington DC 20001 +1 202 483 3157 +1 202 483 3373
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Lynn Garren
I won't recommend any particular kind, but I have found some very
nice dance shoes "off-the-rack". I've learned what kind of shoes I
prefer for the style of dancing I do and keep an eye on what is available
in the stores. One favorite pair is due for another trip to the
shoe repairperson. I also note that shoes with a lot of cushioning
are necessary for most of us on those occasions when you dance on
a less than ideal floor. (In my youth I danced barefoot....)
Lynn Garren
Kiran Wagle
> Oh, one other thing to keep in mind - unlike when shopping for most
> other types of footwear, the fit when you first put on a proper-sized
> pair of Capezio jazz or ballroom shoes should feel quite tight.
This may be true of dance shoes in general (it's certainly a common claim
about rock-climbing shoes.) I've taken to buying my sandals a size
smaller than I would buy "normal" shoes (though for me sandals ARE normal
shoes) because I find that my foot moving around inside the shoe makes
dancing quite uncomfortable. I want the shoe to be an extension of my
foot, not a floopy piece of dead weight.
Weight, literally, may be another consideration in choosing footwear.
Serious hikers claim that a pound on one's foot is like five on one's
back. Those Capezios and other common dance shoes appear to be very
light, and that might make them easier to dance in.
Fexibilty of the sole may be yet another thing to think about as you try
various shoes. I've tried dancing barefoot, and in socks, and in various
sandals and shoes, and I always return to something that has a stiff
sole. YMMV, of course, which is why I for one can't actually recommend
anything but topics of cognition.
~ Kiran "Though I really love my Merrells" <gr...@netcom.com>
Nancy Mamlin
My article on "Dance Shoes" is due to be reprinted in one of the upcoming
CDSS newsletters- elsewise, you can see the original in the Old Time
Herald of Spring 1994 (vol4, no.3)- my feet on the table of contents page.
As for dancing barefoot- that's still my preferred way if there aren't too
many splinters on the floor. It's amazing though, that people say things
like "Aren't you afraid of being stepped on?" Like my bare feet are some
kind of "heavy shoe magnet". I get stepped on while barefoot no more
often than I do while wearing shoes, and it hurts about as much, since my
dance shoes are supportive on the bottoms, but not necessarily the tops.
(Maybe I get stepped on once every three dances, regardless of my foot
apparal.)
Nancy Mamlin
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Warren Blier
: Finding the right shoes can sure be a tricky project. I went through a
(stuff deleted)
: Finally, my ankles dictated a serious search. I was starting to hurt
: them. I found myself one day in front of a dance store--you know,
: Capezios and lycra and tutus. They had a pair of high-top leather jazz
: shoes, the kind with the suede soles. I've worn them for over a year
: now, and wouldn't trade them for anything. They snug around my
: ankles--not really holding them up, but reminding me when I twist them
: the wrong way, not to. The suede sometimes picks up wax from
: overly-tended floors, but a short wire brush takes care of that.
: They're comfortable, they breathe well, and they've held up wonderfully.
: Of course, I haven't lent a single letter to your real question--the
: difference between the rubber soles and the suede. I can only tell you
: that I love my suede soles. They have just the right amount (for me) of
: both "grab" and "slip".
I would strongly recommend Capezio shoes in general - probably used by more
of the local contra dancers than any other single brand. They have several
different styles which are well-suited for dancing, and (at least here) are
relatively inexpensive.
Personally, I prefer the Capezio ballroom shoes for contra
dancing over the jazz shoes Noemi discusses, but both are quite
popular. The ballroom shoes are sturdier, and have a hard smooth
leather bottom and heel. I think they provide somewhat more support
than the jazz shoes; they also tend to be more slippery, which I like
but may not be suitable for everyone (the slick leather bottom allows
one to move faster and more smoothly, but could potentially increase
the risk of falling - especially if the floor is also very slick). Wax
buildup, which can be a hassle with the suede-bottomed jazz shoes, doesn't
occur with the ballroom shoes.
The ballroom shoes provide no cushioning whatsoever. I also happen to like
that because I feel it provides a better connection to the floor, but I
can certainly see how shoes with more padding could be appealing and
found some of the discusssion in this thread of alternatives along these
lines to be quite interesting.
Oh, one other thing to keep in mind - unlike when shopping for most
other types of footwear, the fit when you first put on a proper-sized
pair of Capezio jazz or ballroom shoes should feel quite tight. The very
soft and supple leather of the upper part of the shoes will rather
quickly stretch with use to comform to your foot, resulting in a very
nice comfortable glove-like feel. Without proper advice from a salesperson,
it would be very easy to buy a pair of these shoes that would turn out to
be too large (I bought mine - well I'm on my 3rd pair now - at a Capezio
shoe store and the woman working there had to go to a lot of effort to
convince me that the shoes I was getting (when I got my first pair) were
in fact the correct size and not a couple of sizes too small. It turned
out, of course, that she was absolutely correct.
Happy Dancing!
Warren (bl...@atmos.ucla.edu)
Reel Lass
Dance groups. I tried several different shoes for English - Tennies,
T-straps with composition soles, running shoes, Scottish "ballet" slippers
with suede soles and silicon soles and Scottish dance ghillies with
silicon soles.
The last, ghillies with silicon soles, worked the best. I add Spenco soft
arch supports. The lacings give a bit of extra support and keep the shoe
snug to the foot. I find that suede soles are too slippery on most dance
floors. The silicon coating works well on most dance floors, but it is
*extremely* slippery on wet surfaces. The silicon coating is Dow Corning
3140 RTV. It's a thick, almost jelly-like liquid. You spread it on the
clean (preferrably brand new) suede soles. It takes a day or two to dry
sufficiently, and it will be a bit tacky the first time you wear the
shoes. The tacky feeling wears off pretty soon.
~~~ Reel Lass
Toby Koosman
>As for dancing barefoot- that's still my preferred way if there aren't too
>many splinters on the floor. It's amazing though, that people say things
>like "Aren't you afraid of being stepped on?" Like my bare feet are some
>kind of "heavy shoe magnet".
Barefoot is my preferred sole for slick surfaces, including the Laurel Theatre
and the new JCC in Asheville, and I field this same question all the time. I
sometimes claim it makes my neighbors dance better. You have a
good point--do people imagine that stepping on someone's foot is not painful
if they're wearing shoes?
Toby Koosman
Knoxville, Tennessee USA
tkoo...@utkux.utk.edu
http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~tkoosman/
Kiran Wagle
> It's amazing though, that people say things like "Aren't you afraid of being
> stepped on?" Like my bare feet are some kind of "heavy shoe magnet". I get
> stepped on while barefoot no more often than I do while wearing shoes
Perhaps less often, since you can presumably feel the displacement of air
while barefoot more easily than while wearing closed shoes. In some five
years of dancing in sandals, I've been stepped on (as opposed to kicked)
only a handful (that's five or less :-)) of times, and those were in
absurdly crowded conditions. I *know* I've yanked my foot out from under
a descending shoe a few times, too.
Perhaps the best reason to wear "soft-soled shoes" (okay, Peter, there's
your cue) is that they seem to do less damage to one's feet when one is
kicked by soemone. Those hard leather soles can be really nasty when they
run into one's foot horizontally.
~ Kiran <gr...@netcom.com>
--
Gary Kenneth Krueger
>Nancy Mamlin wrote:
>
Does anyone have any comments about good places that sell good shoes,
which also have a helpful staff?
Any comments on brands/styles for men?
P.S.: Howdy Nancy! Did you know the Square-UMs aren't dancing as a club
anymore. It sounds like they will be considering getting it back together.
kru...@cpcug.org, kru...@sgi23.wwb.noaa.gov, gary_k...@pcorner.com
Garry C. Kaluzny
In a previous article, kru...@cpcug.org (Gary Kenneth Krueger) says:
> Does anyone have any comments about good places that sell good shoes,
>which also have a helpful staff?
>
> Any comments on brands/styles for men?
>
Personally, I wear a pair of Rockport Walkers from around 1984. I've had
them resoled twice, but the uppers are still holding out. They originally
came with rippled vibram soles, but I had them ground down flat so it's
like being on slick tires. I find the traction is much better than
leather, which is a necessity for changing direction on heys. They also
don't stick like tennis or basketball shoes, which allows your feet to
slip and rotate a bit while swinging. The soles are relatively thick
which provides good cushioning (plus I added cushion insoles) for my bad
knees (abused through playing sports at an earlier age), and the soles
are also stiff and don't flex much which prevents my "turf toe" from
being flexed too much.
This has been an unsolicited endorsement for Rockport Walkers, but if
Rockport wants to compensate me with a new pair of shoes, I'll take them!
;-)
Garry Kaluzny
Michigan Dance Gypsy
150,000+ miles and still dancing
CathyDM
>
>I won't recommend any particular kind, but I have found some very
>nice dance shoes "off-the-rack".
stores. My current dance shoes cost me $2 at Goodwill and they're
great--lace-up boots that go just above the ankle (good support and not
hot), a flat heel, and a leather sole that was already broken in so it's
more like suede. With a padded liner, I've got enough cushioning for
everything except dancing on rough concrete. They seem to last a long
time, too--my two used pairs each outlasted the pair I bought new in a
"regular" store (and had to painfully break in).
Men would have trouble finding light lace-up boots, so for them I guess
I'd second the votes for Capezio jazz or ballroom shoes. I also had
surprisingly good experiences dancing in Birkenstock sandals--the soles
were hard enough that they had little traction. Finally, I sometimes wear
soft Macedonian opanke (like moccasins) for contra dancing on very smooth
wood floors.
Cathy
Madison, WI
Barbara Ruth
Lass) wrote:
> floors. The silicon coating works well on most dance floors, but it is
> *extremely* slippery on wet surfaces. The silicon coating is Dow Corning
> 3140 RTV. It's a thick, almost jelly-like liquid. You spread it on the
> clean (preferrably brand new) suede soles. It takes a day or two to dry
> sufficiently, and it will be a bit tacky the first time you wear the
> shoes. The tacky feeling wears off pretty soon.
>
Please, more information on this silicon coating. Can this coating be
used on surfaces other than suede, such as rubber soles? Is it meant
specifically for shoes? Where does one get it?
I had a pair of the Capezio jazz with suede soles briefly. I loved the
smoothness of the suede on the floor but the shoes did not provide nearly
enough cushioning and support, even with sorbothane inserts. I have gone
back to Reebok light aerobic shoes. They work great on slippery floors
but tend to grab on anything else. I've been considering the gluing
leather soles on the bottom business but haven't gotten around to it. In
the meantime, someone at Victoria's Revenge gave me a great tip that's
saved many a dance for me (Thank you whoever you were -- I've forgotten
your name). Rubbing candle wax on the bottom of the sole gives the shoe a
great glide. It wears off pretty quickly though and has to be reapplied
every three or four dances. I've been wondering if ski wax might be a
good option.
Noemi
little or no cushioning. Being blessed with many wooden dance floors,
and enough dances to choose from so that I don't regret missing the ones
on tile-over-concrete floors, that's usually not a problem. In fact,
the only time I even notice the lack of padding is at the end of dance
camp. Boy, do I notice. But I think it wouldn't matter what I had been
wearing, my feet would be done in anyway.
Barefoot looks like fun, but I'm quite the tenderfoot. The jazz shoes
feel a little like barefoot, without the breaking-in period.
Yes, they should be tight, (well, snug) when purchased. Mine have
stretched enough that I have to lace the sides almost together, but the
length is still right. What do you think about purchasing them at the
end of the day, the way you should dress shoes? Would be helpful?
Hoping to see you with happy feet...
Noemi
JERRYCLOGS
per year, I go thru shoes quite rapidly!! I have three pair of performing
shoes. (Wood surfaces, finished concrete surfaces, and concrete slabs and
asphalt)
While Capizzios are well know dance shoes, we have found two other
sources.
My favorite shoes are a pair of 'Freestylers' from Carls Clogging Supplies
in Salem South Carolina. (803)-944-8125. They have leather soles and heels
and round toes. I am on my third set of resoles! The other shoes that I
use are 'Promenaders' available from Steven's Stompers in Mercer, Pa.
(800)-722-8040. They don't have a leather sole...it's some kind of
synthetic??
Hope this bit of information helps.
Jerry Rasmussen,
Cadence Cloggers of San Antonio, Tx.
Reel Lass
> *extremely* slippery on wet surfaces. The silicon coating is Dow Corning
> 3140 RTV. It's a thick, almost jelly-like liquid. You spread it on the
> clean (preferrably brand new) suede soles. It takes a day or two to dry
> sufficiently, and it will be a bit tacky the first time you wear the
> shoes. The tacky feeling wears off pretty soon.
<<
Please, more information on this silicon coating. Can this coating be
used on surfaces other than suede, such as rubber soles? Is it meant
specifically for shoes? Where does one get it?
experienced dancers discovered that this stuff works really well to help
keep your footing on very slippery, wooden floors.
We use this coating to relieve the slipperiness that untreated suede soled
shoes acquire after a few good dances on a waxed, wooden floor. I would
*suppose* it would work on rubber, but I'm not sure why you would want to
add a non-skid coating to rubber (???) Actually, this isn't *as* non-skid
as rubber, so maybe it would serve well to add some desired "slip" to
rubber shoes.... but I've never tried it, so I couldn't say, really.
The only place I know where you can get it is from K.R. Anderson, 2800
Bowers Avenue, Santa Clara 95051 tel: (408) 727-2800. Dow Corning may be
able to give you the names of local distributors.
I hope this helps.
~~~ & :o) Reel Lass