HELP! Scottish "Piobrochead???"
bogus address
young...@aol.com (Youngblod1) writes:
> I am choreographing BRIGADOON
BLEURGHHH!
> at a local professional theatre in Kentucky
*Professionals* do that thing over there??? I thought it was the
archetypal am-dram show.
> and need information on a traditional Scottish funeral dance called
> the Piobrochead. I have searched the internet and can find nothing!!
With that spelling you won't. "Piobaireachd" in Gaelic or sometimes
"pibroch" in English. Another Gaelic term for it is "ceol mor", "big
music".
It is NOT a dance, but a musical form - the classical music of the
Highland bagpipe. Always in theme and variations form, in irregular
chant-like rhythms and variable tempo with wildly complex ornamentation,
ranging from a few minutes to half an hour long. There are about 300
pieces in the repertoire, mostly dating from 1500 to 1750.
It is NEVER danced to under ANY circumstances, at funerals or anywhere
else, and frankly I find the very idea disgustingly tasteless. It is
*purely* listening music, as much so as a late Beethoven quartet or
Palestrina mass. No piper capable of performing that music would agree
to having somebody dance to their playing.
See Francis Collinson's "The Traditional and National Music of Scotland"
for more information. There are quite a few recordings of piobaireachd
in print, but they tend not to stay available for very long as they're
only produced in short runs.
I very much doubt whether any audience brain-dead enough to want to see
"Brigadoon" would get anything at all out of piobaireachd.
========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data and recipes,
freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources
Youngblod1
<<*Professionals* do that thing over there??? I thought it was the
archetypal am-dram show.>>
Thank you kindly for your insight. You clearly have (a) no taste and (b) an
english sense of what musical theatre is; in a word: bad. If you think
BRIGADOON is bad, I ask you what descriptive word you would use to describe
BLOOD BROTHERS?
<<It is NEVER danced to under ANY circumstances, at funerals or anywhere
else, and frankly I find the very idea disgustingly tasteless. >>
Don't yell at me, Miss Priss -- talk to Madame Agnes de Mille on that one. And
since we've already decided that your idea of taste is a flouncy one, I'm not
moved by this statement very much.
> No piper capable of performing that music would agree
>to having somebody dance to their playing.
I read that to our fifty-two year old, award-winning, native Scot player and
the best word to describe his response is a scof.
>I very much doubt whether any audience brain-dead enough to want to see
>"Brigadoon" would get anything at all out of piobaireachd.
I can't wait to see the next English musical that is NOT brain dead -- must I
wait more than forty-six years? Please let me know....
david
bo...@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address) wrote:
>
> young...@aol.com (Youngblod1) writes:
> > I am choreographing BRIGADOON
>
> BLEURGHHH!
>
> > at a local professional theatre in Kentucky
>
> *Professionals* do that thing over there??? I thought it was the
> archetypal am-dram show.
>
> > and need information on a traditional Scottish funeral dance called
> > the Piobrochead. I have searched the internet and can find nothing!!
>
> With that spelling you won't. "Piobaireachd" in Gaelic or sometimes
> "pibroch" in English. Another Gaelic term for it is "ceol mor", "big
> music".
>
> It is NOT a dance, but a musical form - the classical music of the
> Highland bagpipe. Always in theme and variations form, in irregular
> chant-like rhythms and variable tempo with wildly complex ornamentation,
> ranging from a few minutes to half an hour long. There are about 300
> pieces in the repertoire, mostly dating from 1500 to 1750.
>
> It is NEVER danced to under ANY circumstances, at funerals or anywhere
> else, and frankly I find the very idea disgustingly tasteless. It is
> *purely* listening music, as much so as a late Beethoven quartet or
> Palestrina mass.
Ah! But a Palestrina Mass IS participatory as is a Beethoven quartet
on a spiritual level!
No piper capable of performing that music would agree
> to having somebody dance to their playing.
>
> See Francis Collinson's "The Traditional and National Music of Scotland"
> for more information. There are quite a few recordings of piobaireachd
> in print, but they tend not to stay available for very long as they're
> only produced in short runs.
>
> I very much doubt whether any audience brain-dead enough to want to see
> "Brigadoon" would get anything at all out of piobaireachd.
>
david
young...@aol.com (Youngblod1) wrote:
>
> <<*Professionals* do that thing over there??? I thought it was the
> archetypal am-dram show.>>
>
> Thank you kindly for your insight. You clearly have (a) no taste and (b) an
> english sense of what musical theatre is; in a word: bad.
HOLD ON aminute!!! Please"Youngblood" don't confuse British with
English and certainly don't let Bogus's "Scottish Nationalism" get
mixed up with English! I'm English and proud and, as a dancer, I rate
Agnes de Mille as a choreographer and author!! I actually never got to
do any ballet or stage dance but folk dancers can still appreciate these
worlds!
David Mills
>If you think
>BRIGADOON is bad, I ask you what descriptive word you would use to describe
> BLOOD BROTHERS?
> <<It is NEVER danced to under ANY circumstances, at funerals or anywhere
> else, and frankly I find the very idea disgustingly tasteless. >>
>
> Don't yell at me, Miss Priss -- talk to Madame Agnes de Mille on that one.
And
> since we've already decided that your idea of taste is a flouncy one, I'm not
> moved by this statement very much.
>
> > No piper capable of performing that music would agree
> >to having somebody dance to their playing.
>
> I read that to our fifty-two year old, award-winning, native Scot player and
> the best word to describe his response is a scof.
>
> >I very much doubt whether any audience brain-dead enough to want to see
> >"Brigadoon" would get anything at all out of piobaireachd.
>
Jerry & Sally Cunningham
I think you can add some other kinds of intolerance to your
advertisement for food intolerance. I also think you owe an apology to
the person/s you have addressed. Someone asked for help on this forum.
Even strongly-felt opinions can be stated diplomatically, if not
outright kindly. The people who read this newsgroup obviously love
dance and music and appreciate the network of friends and of knowledge
gained here. We come here expecting to be edified, not blasted.
I won't respond to your note point by point, but I will say that I for
one love the show "Brigadoon" no matter where it comes from. I wish the
producers well and hope they have a great time with it and a great
turnout.
Sally
bogus address wrote:
>
> young...@aol.com (Youngblod1) writes:
> > I am choreographing BRIGADOON
>
> BLEURGHHH!
>
> > at a local professional theatre in Kentucky
>
> *Professionals* do that thing over there??? I thought it was the
> archetypal am-dram show.
>
> > and need information on a traditional Scottish funeral dance called
> > the Piobrochead. I have searched the internet and can find nothing!!
>
> With that spelling you won't. "Piobaireachd" in Gaelic or sometimes
> "pibroch" in English. Another Gaelic term for it is "ceol mor", "big
> music".
>
> It is NOT a dance, but a musical form - the classical music of the
> Highland bagpipe. Always in theme and variations form, in irregular
> chant-like rhythms and variable tempo with wildly complex ornamentation,
> ranging from a few minutes to half an hour long. There are about 300
> pieces in the repertoire, mostly dating from 1500 to 1750.
>
> It is NEVER danced to under ANY circumstances, at funerals or anywhere
> else, and frankly I find the very idea disgustingly tasteless. It is
> *purely* listening music, as much so as a late Beethoven quartet or
> Palestrina mass. No piper capable of performing that music would agree
> to having somebody dance to their playing.
>
> See Francis Collinson's "The Traditional and National Music of Scotland"
> for more information. There are quite a few recordings of piobaireachd
> in print, but they tend not to stay available for very long as they're
> only produced in short runs.
>
> I very much doubt whether any audience brain-dead enough to want to see
> "Brigadoon" would get anything at all out of piobaireachd.
>
bogus address
Jerry & Sally Cunningham <j...@digisys.net> writes:
> Dear Mr. Bogus Address,
[ meaning they tried to email me but didn't bother reading to the end
of my posting to figure out how to reply so I could download their
message ]
> I for one love the show "Brigadoon" no matter where it comes from.
It comes from Middle America during the Cold War, if I remember right.
The same culture that turned Disney, Coca-Cola and the Readers' Digest
into global pollutants. (Recommended reading on that sort of thing:
Ariel Dorfman and Armand Mattelart, "How to Read Donald Duck", or
Umberto Eco, "Travels in Hyperreality").
In Scotland, it inspired the term "Brigadoonery", meaning the insulting
kitsch the most degraded, downmarket and sycophantic bits of the tourist
industry produce (made-in-Hong-Kong kewpie dolls in tartan skirts, that
sort of thing). I have never seen it produced here and I imagine it'd
go down about as well as a show depicting American blacks as happy thick-
lipped slaves with a natural sense of rhythm would in West Central LA.
I fail to see any I should have any obligation to be polite and
diplomatic about fat-cat arseholes from the US entertainment biz
trivializing my culture so they can make even more money.
It's not as if there aren't plenty of better American musicals out
there, from Sandy Wilson to Stephen Sondheim. Nobody needs this
thing any more.
[ And stop quoting entire messages in posted replies. ]
david
As was said you could be more diplomatic in expressing your opinions.
Brigadoon is, after all, only a fairy story.
I hesitate to suggest that as such it follows much of the manufactured
scottish culture people value so much but what the heck? Ithink i will
suggest it!
None of us can afford to be too precious about our culture(s).
May I suggest we leave this here?
David