How do you spring a sprung floor?

Garry W

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Jun 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/30/99

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I've been hunting to build a dance camp, and it's time to think about the
floor. I could use some advice.

First, in the past I remember seeing ads here for 2nd-hand dance floors for
sale... but now I can't seem to find any of those ads in the archives on
Dejanews. Does anyone have a floor for sale -- in particular a sprung floor
-- or know where there's one somewhere that's abandoned?

In lieu of an old one, I've thought about building a new one... I've hunted
around on the Web and in the r.f-d archives and I see there's a modern
rubber-based style. Anyone have an idea how much this costs? Anyone on the
West coast here ever actually built one?

I'm also interested in the old-time "real thing", where they used actual
springs (maybe truck springs?) to make the floor cooperate. I know of just
two of these floors here on the West coast (Santa Barbara and Oakland), and
one back East (Dearborn, Michigan). In my research I haven't been able to
figure out how they're built, or how much it would cost to build a brand-new
one. Can anyone help out?

Last, do people here actually like/love/want a "sprung floor"? Um, rubber or
truck-spring tonight, madam, sir?

thanks very much

Garry

PS - Here's some URLs that I've found:

http://www.oasis-stage.com/
http://www.harlequinfloors.com/
http://www.stagestep.com/danceafloor.htm
http://www.constructionbooks.net/pubaug98.html

Unfortunately they're all pretty much oriented towards studio floors and
portable floors... not ballrooms.

Dancvortex

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Jun 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/30/99

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One of the best dance floors I've ever danced on is at Split Tree Participatory
Arts Center just south of Chattanooga. It is sprung on elevated beams,
sub-floor, rubber feet, plywood then maple hardwood (I think). Check out the
web site at www.splittree.org or e-mail s...@splittree.org for details on
construction.

Bart Ruark, Dance Vortex

BTW Split Tree is the birth and nuture place of Dance Vortex

Noemi Ybarra

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Jun 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/30/99

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Garry W wrote:

> I've been hunting to build a dance camp, and it's time to think about the
> floor. I could use some advice.

> (snip)

> In lieu of an old one, I've thought about building a new one... I've hunted
> around on the Web and in the r.f-d archives and I see there's a modern
> rubber-based style. Anyone have an idea how much this costs? Anyone on the
> West coast here ever actually built one?

You can purchase rubber-based dance floor, about 1/8" thick, comes in rolls
approximately 5' wide, you choose the length. This is what travelling dancers
use, putting it down and taping it together over stage floors of dubious surface
to protect bare feet and keep from tripping. The brand name best known is
Marley.

This said, this product is one you put onto an existing floor. Over concrete,
the dancers will still feel the concrete. Expensive. Pretty durable. Scuffs
easily. Black, white, or gray.

Battleship linoleum is a surface used on some stages and dance floors instead of
wood. This is on the surface only. I personally don't like to dance on it as
much as wood - you don't get the "slide" that you do with plain wood. But
overly waxed wood (like in wonderful Lovett Hall in Dearborn) can also be a
pain.

> I'm also interested in the old-time "real thing", where they used actual
> springs (maybe truck springs?) to make the floor cooperate. I know of just
> two of these floors here on the West coast (Santa Barbara and Oakland), and
> one back East (Dearborn, Michigan). In my research I haven't been able to
> figure out how they're built, or how much it would cost to build a brand-new
> one. Can anyone help out?

In general, a "sprung" floor is constructed so that various parts of the floor
flex, so that the dancers' feet and legs don't have to take all the shock of
what they are doing up there. No springs are involved. 1 x 3s are laid 16"
apart or so, layered between plywood, with the 1x s in each layer offset from
the 1x s above. Hard to describe in words - suffice it to say that this allows
the floor to flex and protects dancers' nether limbs from injury.

> Last, do people here actually like/love/want a "sprung floor"? Um, rubber or
> truck-spring tonight, madam, sir?

Most definitely I prefer sprung floors. I can sure tell when I've been dancing
on tile-over-concrete. And, even if I didn't notice it in one night, I'm quite
sure I'd see the results over time. As I've said, I prefer a wood floor to a
rubber one, plain, unfinished wood to waxed.

email me directly for more information

Noemi
(who works for a theatrical consultant these days)

Jonathan Sivier

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Jun 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/30/99

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>Garry W wrote:

>> I've been hunting to build a dance camp, and it's time to think about the
>> floor. I could use some advice.
>> (snip)
>> In lieu of an old one, I've thought about building a new one... I've hunted
>> around on the Web and in the r.f-d archives and I see there's a modern
>> rubber-based style. Anyone have an idea how much this costs? Anyone on the
>> West coast here ever actually built one?

When the local (Urbana, IL) park district built a new general purpose
recreation facility a few years ago they asked us (Urbana Country Dancers)
what we would like to see in the new building and we said "a sprung dance
floor". Amazingly enough they actually put one in. It's a nice wooden floor
and I understand that it rests on small rubber balls. It has a very nice
feel and you can see it move up and down as people dance on it. My impression
is that it only takes a depression a few inches deep in the underlying cement
foundation to accommodate the rubber balls and wooden flooring.

Jonathan

Noemi Ybarra

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Jul 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/1/99

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I received this question via email, and thought my answer might be
relevant here.

> I was interested by your description of the sprung floor.
> How many 1x/plywood layers are used? The floor must become quite
> thick - are halls framed to accomodate the thickness of the floor?
> Is it possible to retrofit an existing structure with a sprung floor?

>From the bottom up:
concrete
1 x 2 furring strips, 1' on center, parallel to each other, laid with
the
wider side down
3/4" plywood sheathing
1 x 2 strips, parellel with the first set of strips but offset by 6"
3/4" plywood
3/4" tongue in groove (tongue and groove?) quarter sawn pine or whatever

flooring

Total thickness - 3-3/4"

Let's see if I can type this

-----------------------------------------------3/4" quarter sawn pine
-----------------------------------------------3/4" plywood
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 x 2
furring strips (looking at the ends)
-----------------------------------------------3/4" plywood
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 x 2
furring strips
-----------------------------------------------concrete base
|--1' --|

As you can see, the offset 1xs allow the floor to flex down, while still

supporting lots of weight. Some theater we know of put on elephant on a

floor built like this, with no problems.

I'm quite sure that it's possible to retrofit an existing structure with

a new, sprung floor.

Noemi

Noemi Ybarra

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Jul 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/1/99

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Jonathan Sivier wrote:

> >Garry W wrote:
>
> >> I've been hunting to build a dance camp, and it's time to think about the
> >> floor. I could use some advice.
> >> (snip)
> >> In lieu of an old one, I've thought about building a new one... I've hunted
> >> around on the Web and in the r.f-d archives and I see there's a modern
> >> rubber-based style. Anyone have an idea how much this costs? Anyone on the
> >> West coast here ever actually built one?
>
> When the local (Urbana, IL) park district built a new general purpose
> recreation facility a few years ago they asked us (Urbana Country Dancers)
> what we would like to see in the new building and we said "a sprung dance
> floor". Amazingly enough they actually put one in. It's a nice wooden floor
> and I understand that it rests on small rubber balls. It has a very nice
> feel and you can see it move up and down as people dance on it. My impression
> is that it only takes a depression a few inches deep in the underlying cement
> foundation to accommodate the rubber balls and wooden flooring.

In our experience, the downside to the rubber-based floor is that after a while
(and I can't tell you how long a while), the rubber squishes down and stays that
way. I hear it's very expensive to replace the rubber - probably expensive to get
to it.

But, that may be many years down the road.

Noemi

J.Williams // J.Snyder

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Jul 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/26/99

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I believe that the "Just Dancing" dance studio in Manchester, MO (site of the
Childgrove Country Dancers' dances near St.Louis) also has this rubber ball
suspension system for their dance floor.

Jonathan Sivier wrote:

> >Garry W wrote:
>
> >> I've been hunting to build a dance camp, and it's time to think about the
> >> floor. I could use some advice.
> >> (snip)
> >> In lieu of an old one, I've thought about building a new one... I've hunted
> >> around on the Web and in the r.f-d archives and I see there's a modern
> >> rubber-based style. Anyone have an idea how much this costs? Anyone on the
> >> West coast here ever actually built one?
>
> When the local (Urbana, IL) park district built a new general purpose
> recreation facility a few years ago they asked us (Urbana Country Dancers)
> what we would like to see in the new building and we said "a sprung dance
> floor". Amazingly enough they actually put one in. It's a nice wooden floor
> and I understand that it rests on small rubber balls. It has a very nice
> feel and you can see it move up and down as people dance on it. My impression
> is that it only takes a depression a few inches deep in the underlying cement
> foundation to accommodate the rubber balls and wooden flooring.
>