Why Can't We Use Carp & Catfish as Live Bait ??
Musky Killer
There certainly are not on the endangered species list !
We can use Suckers, why not the others ??
Rodney
WHy would you want to,, but I can use them here as bait, you can't ????????
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks
Mojo's Rock Hopper, and Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://ezknot.com
smiles
minnows to some remote trout lake and in no time at all......the catfish
take over. Lake St-Jean in the Saguenay-Lake-St-Jean region of Quebec is a
huge lake that was crammed full of landlocked Atlantic salmon. One of the
main reasons why there are very few landlocked Atlantic salmon
today.....catfish from another region caught by a fisherman escaped into the
lake. Catfish are not very good bait anyway. Also, catfish are considered
game fish by some people. Carp are a game fish too. You rarely see game
fish allowed to be used as bait.
Where I live in Quebec.....many of the lakes do not even have any form of
minnows other than brook trout. This is rare in other places on the planet.
Here in my area....the only fish in most of the lakes are brook trout. This
means that all the food produced by the ecosystem goes to the trout. Fly
fishing is good all summer. As you can imagine.....no minnows are allowed
as bait. Even canned minnows, parts of fish, fish eyes, fish fins, dried
minnows, frozen minnows etc are not allowed. However, even with all the
precautions taken.....many lakes have been polluted by minnows that stupid
fishermen brought to the lakes as bait. Even minnows that do not grow any
longer than 6 or 8 inches eventually decrease the trout population by 40%
without fishing pressure. Add fishing pressure to the recipe and the
effects are worse. Ah.....you say......the trout eat the minnows.
Yes....but the minnows compete for the food that the tiny trout need to eat
in order to grow. Trout start to eat minnows only after having attained a
certain size which may take close to 2 years to attain. Since the larger
aggressive trout are caught by fishermen....the minnows have fewer
predators.
Musky Killer <spkevans(NOSPAM]@rogers.com> wrote in message
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MrDancer
news:b82i71$3e2$2...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
<snip>
> okay I'll bite, please tell me how the poor ol' catfish reduced the
Atlantic
> Salmon population? do catfish eat the salmon? I thought that catfish
> are primarily bottom feeders? Did the catfish compete with the salmon
> for the same food supply? I didn't know that Atlantic salmon were bottowm
> feeders.
Catfish feed suspended or at the surface way more than most people realize.
They likely sit on the bottom during the day, which is prolly how the myth
of 'bottom feeder' got started; however, they do feed quite often on midges
and other insect larvae at the surface during the night. This is
particularly true of channel and blue catfish.
However, unless their food supply is extremely limited, I don't think it
would affect the salmon population.
I also doubt the catfish would eat the salmon in any significant numbers,
unless, of course, it was an abundant population of flathead catfish.
smiles
Ouananiche in my area). What happens is the catfish are in the lake.
Meanwhile the landlocked Atlantic salmon (ouananiche) have hatched in the
streams and after feeding on insects for about 2 years, they attain a
certain size and must migrate to a larger more fertile body of water (lake)
in order to continue to grow. Once they enter the lake, they feed on
insects and very small minnows. However, if there are catfish in the lakes,
they must compete with the catfish for food. Catfish, will get the insects
that are in the mud before the small ouananiche get the chance to eat the
insect because the ouananiche will not rummage about on the bottom. On top
of that, the catfish predate on minnows too which is in direct competition
with the ouananiche. One of the main food sources for ouananiche is
"smelt". Smelt spawn in very shallow water......where the catfish is at
home.
Now, the catfish will not completely eliminate the trout or the salmon in
a body of water but will greatly reduce their number. Would you like to see
a nice trout lake that has no minnows in it suddenly have a population of
catfish?
Bottom feeders......insect eaters.....minnow eaters.....all rely on one
thing. How much a body of water can support fish. In my area, where there
are many lakes with no minnows or other fish of any kind except
trout.....the body of water will support on the average about 14 kilos of
fish per hectare. Cold deep lakes with steep shores.....will not support
as many fish. Shallow, muddy weedy lakes will support more fish but are not
prime trout waters. Add any other fish species to the body of water and the
total mass of fish will remain approximately the same. Take an example that
has been documented by biologists: With no fishing in a lake containing
trout and chub, a certain equilibrium will occur where a certain percentage
of the fish are trout and the other percentage is chub that grow to a
maximum of 8 inches. The percentage turns out to be 60% trout and 40% chub.
Chub are not considered a predatory fish nor do they get very large.
However, they eat the same food as the trout. They eat small trout. They
eat trout eggs if they can. They grow much faster than trout. They lay
much more eggs than trout, they spawn anywhere and they hatch in only a
couple of weeks which is quite the opposite of trout. However, the trout
eventually get larger and prey on the chub. Now, add fishermen to the
picture. They capture the more aggressive larger trout that eat a lot of
chub. They rarely catch any chub. In short order you have a lake full of
chub and a few small trout who must compete with chub for food. It will
take a long time before the lake recovers. Imagine how more aggressive
species like catfish, perch, sunfish can affect a trout lake.
As for Atlantic salmon. They spawn in waters that are not normally
inhabited by perch, catfish, sunfish. The salmon fry must grow big enough
before going out to sea. Usually the waters where the spawning takes place
is free of other species of fish....so the fry are not prey to other fish.
However, these areas will not support large populations of adult fish,
therefore the fry after a few years in the fast flowing cold streams are
large enough so that a certain percentage of them will avoid getting eaten
and must migrate to areas where there is more food.
The case of the "landlocked Atlantic salmon" (ouananiche) is one I know
about (without being an expert). It's the Lac St-Jean in Quebec where not
long ago, there were millions of ouananiche.
However, there are lots of instances where imported or introduced fish
have ruined sport fishing all over N.America.
As for the case of the "trout only" lakes. I spent 10 years as a
conservation officer/biologist working in such an area. Part of that area
had the misfortune of being contaminated by chub and suckers brought by
fishermen during the 1950's as bait to catch trout.
except Tim M <tim...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b82i71$3e2$2...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> In article <I7Mla.29644$4I6.3...@weber.videotron.net>, "smiles"
<goat...@badsound.net> wrote:
>
> >It's mostly because of the fact that some people will haul these species
of
> >minnows to some remote trout lake and in no time at all......the catfish
> >take over. Lake St-Jean in the Saguenay-Lake-St-Jean region of Quebec is
a
> >huge lake that was crammed full of landlocked Atlantic salmon. One of
the
> >main reasons why there are very few landlocked Atlantic salmon
> >today.....catfish from another region caught by a fisherman escaped into
the
> >lake. Catfish are not very good bait anyway. Also, catfish are
considered
> >game fish by some people. Carp are a game fish too. You rarely see game
> >fish allowed to be used as bait.
>
> okay I'll bite, please tell me how the poor ol' catfish reduced the
Atlantic
> Salmon population? do catfish eat the salmon? I thought that catfish
> are primarily bottom feeders? Did the catfish compete with the salmon
> for the same food supply? I didn't know that Atlantic salmon were bottowm
> feeders.
>
> something is very fishy here...
>
>
>
smiles
parcel of land. Everything is nice and green. Now add weeds....everything
is still nice and green. The problem is that weeds seem to grow well...they
take over.....the wheat will not go away.....but eventually it will not be
worthwhile to cultivate.
Catfish are voracious eaters. They will eat any fish. Even the royal
salmon. Their growth rate is fantastic. They are not fussy about where
they live. Dig a hole in the ground. Fill it with water. Put some catfish
fry in the hole. Feed them for a year and you will have a nice profitable
load of large catfish. I think I read somewhere that their growth rate is
much faster than chickens.
Every fish species has a certain niche that was established a long time ago
and when left alone, will survive. Introducing fish to places where they do
not already inhabit most often destroys sport fishing.
MrDancer <mrdan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Don Phillipson
news:mQEpa.53928$uJ2.7...@wagner.videotron.net...
> . . . if there are catfish in the lakes,
> they must compete with the catfish for food. Catfish, will get the
insects
> that are in the mud before the small ouananiche get the chance to eat the
> insect because the ouananiche will not rummage about on the bottom. On
top
> of that, the catfish predate on minnows too which is in direct competition
> with the ouananiche. One of the main food sources for ouananiche is
> "smelt". Smelt spawn in very shallow water......where the catfish is at
> home.
> Now, the catfish will not completely eliminate the trout or the salmon
in
> a body of water but will greatly reduce their number.
Another consideration is winter survival under the
ice (which probably covers even Lac St Jean. Once
a lake has frozen over, no more oxygen becomes
available (except from springs or inflowing streams,
seldom significant.) This rations how many fish
can survive the winter. If a certain lake has enough
oxygen to keep 10 tons of fish alive under the ice in
winter, you can start with 15 or 25 tons in the fall but only
10 tons will be alive next spring. This is normal in
Canadian latitudes.
So if you start with 15 tons of catfish and 10 tons of
salmon in the fall, only (probably) 6 tons of catfish and
4 tons of salmon will be alive next May. If catfish grow
and salmon decline every year by only a few per cent,
there will be no salmon fishery within a decade.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
dphillipson[at]trytel.com